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Might Episodes VII - IX Still Be Made?
LE UI Guy writes "According to the HoustonChronicle.com, with all the hype surrounding the recent release of ROTS, speculation abounds that someone may still take a stab at creating episodes VII - IX. Gary Kurtz, producer of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back, gives some insight into where the storyline may, or may not, go. On a related note, Roger Ebert, is also giving a thumbs up to a continuation of the storyline as well. Where does the line start?"
WTF?
There's way too much money to be made to just not continue the series with so much hype still alive.
Seriously though. The series had a happy ending, so what are they going to do? Morph a new bad guy? Have R2 turn evil?
Make the ewoks rabid?
Anyway, I thought ROTS was good, but not great. My full review can be found here.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
Luke, I am your grandson?
If there's a VII, VII and IX, you just know there's going to be X, XI, and XII after that.
Then it's the prequel to the prequel. Negative I, II and III. I don't know, maybe Darth Vader discovers time travel.
Unless you get Natalie Portman to be wearing that outfit Carrie Fisher wore in RotJ, I don't want to hear any more about it. Please.
Enough already.
It's been more than 25 years since the first three episodes came out. So much has changed then that if movies taking place after episode 6 were to to be made now episodes 4,5,and 6 would just be smack in the middle of a bunch of episodes made with cg and crummy love scenes. Episode III was welll worth the wait, but I think it's time to put the series to rest.
The line starts away from where Lucas is. He can't write an interesting story to save his life.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
"Lucas you sonofabitch, you have shat upon my childhood."
Stage 2 - Attack of the Clones:
"I still hate him even though these movies are absolutely gorgeous. Last 15 minutes were ok."
Stave 3 - Revenge of the Sith:
"Wow that was cool seeing all those early Darth Vader moments and... wha? no more? Noooooooooooooo! Make more! MAKE MORE"
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
that in these sequels, the Ewoks will shoot first.
Join the TWIT army now!
My guess is it'll go "up". That's the only place it can go, from these last three travesties of writing/directing.
Note to filmmakers of the future: bad dialog leads to anger, bad directing leads to hatred, shallow action sequences lead to suffering. Farming out a movie to a corporation of computer animators is a path to the dark side of filmmaking.
peter zahn is the author of these heir to the empire dark force rising the last command
I just hope it won't be George Lucas. Let's face it, Star Wars could have been 10 times more dramatic and interesting than it was, and George Lucas' storytelling and directing skills are pathetic. He's a good businessman, and a visionary, but that's where it ends, really. ROTS, while better than the previous two installments, falls short of what it could have been. The story of ROTS would barely fill 20 minutes of screen time if it wasn't for CG.
Although Lucas may be tired of making star wars movies, or perhaps simply not want to be remembered as 'the guy who made star wars', I think it would be silly for them to not continue the stories. They have a storyline that is at least as interesting as the star trek franchise, although I wouldn't want to see it exploited to death as star trek has been. Most non-geeks I talk to express interest in seeing further star wars movies, and that's definitely my hope. For anyone who hasn't seen it yet, I saw it yesterday, and it was pretty good. I just feel bad for people who will see all 6 movies in order, because a lot of the excitement of episodes 4-6 came from the surprises inherent in the relationships between characters. Now that it's all laid out so clearly, it might make 4-6 much less interesting. I'd like to see more star wars prequels.
Stooge 1 - Moe:
"You're holding the wrong end of your light saber, moron."
Stooge 2 - Larry:
"This isn't a light saber. Moron."
Stooge3 - Curly:
"Now THIS is using the force, Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk."
Stooge 3 1/2 - Shemp:
"I always knew they were gay."
*smirks*
Nightmare on Endor
Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Certainly, the plan all along was to have a 9-parter. He said so himself, shortly after the original Star Wars movie came out. (Those in the UK at the time might remember the interview with George Lucas that was broadcast on Ask Aspel, at about that time.)
He has said that others have done "plenty" in the post-ROJ era, but that could mean anything. He could mean that some published (or UNpublished) existing work by himself or someone else would form the basis for 7-9 - ie: nothing new has to be written, as it already is.
The fact that episode III grossed so much in the first day might cut either way. On the one hand, it proves Star Wars is still worth a LOT of money. On the other hand, it gives Mr Lucas a chance to bow out of Star Wars on the kind of high note that very very few directors ever get to have. Star Wars is worth a lot, but so is a good image, and right now Mr Lucas has one of the best images out there.
Probably the deciding factor will be the advancement of computer-generated graphics. George Lucas has clearly proven that he likes high-tech toys, with I-III, and even IV-VI had some impressive effects for the day and the budget. (IV was the shoestring of shoestrings, by all accounts, but still pulled off some pretty good special effects which stood the test of time.)
If, within the next few years, we see some really good rendering engines - cone-tracer + radiosity (or better) at speeds fast enough for live-action - then maybe Mr Lucas would do the last 3 parts just to play with the new gizmos. I could believe it.
On the other hand, if we see a stagnation, with no real improvements in quality but maybe just a bit more quantity, then the technology won't coax him out. That would be my bet. He's had his fun with what's out there, he'll want something that is NEW for the last 3, if he's to think it worth it on those grounds.
Of course, I'm probably completely wrong, but it's always fun to speculate about such things.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Seriously. How many times does Lucas get to kick us in the nuts before we finally decide enough is enough?
"He really didn't mean Episode 1&2, and especially Jar Jar. He really does love me. We deserved what we got from Ep 1&2"
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
An additional trilogy would be just some tacked on stories.
...those were made a long time ago.
Episode VII: The Ewok Adventure
Episode VIII: Ewoks: The Battle for Endor
Episode IX: Star Wars Holiday Special
Since Lucas is fine with fan-made Star Wars films, as long as they don't make a profit, perhaps Lucas will see it in his heart to release the franchise to the public in his will under some friendly Creative Commons license. I'd love to see what independent film makers could do with the material using the technology of 2050.
Shockwave Flash movies are the greatest thing to happen to non-sequitur humor since Japan.
Let's do X, XI, XII
then wait 10 years to do VII, VIII, IX
I was told once that Lucas was following a traditional saga format, where a nine-part story was told starting with the second third, followed by the first third and then the last. Is anyone familiar enough with traditional/ancient story formats to verify this?
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
...and let him make movies of "Knights of the Old Republic"!
Hopefully, George Lucas will not destroy his own creation by cheapening it.
One of the principal problems with "Star Trek" is that there have been too many television shows and too many movies. After a while, the plots start to eerily repeat themselves. The novelty is gone, and "Star Trek" now just looks like another washed-up television show. If you saw last week's final episode of "Enterprise", you will understand what I mean.
Someone must slap some sense into George Lucas. He should immediately pull the plug on the new television shows. The rare gem (i.e. 6 movies with the "Star Wars" theme) is treasured. The commonplace grains (i.e. weekly episodes of "Star Wars") of sand is just banal crap. If Lucas wants to produce any more "Star Wars" film, then he should focus only on the movies.
"Right, you are. Young Slashdotter. A law, we need. At most 10 'Star Wars' movies per century, we should make!" Yoda concurs.
Guys, please... WAKE UP.
This is about MONEY... Lots and lots of money.
Star Wars is a 20 Billion Dollar industry, all told, between movies, DVD, toys, merchandising tie-ins, commercials for those tie-ins, etc., etc., -- Nobody connected with it wants the gravy train to end. It's buying them a new car, a new house and a new yacht, and a new trophy wife.
And when Lucas' kids inherit the franchise, and poor old George is dead, they will milk that cow until it dies. They will want a new Masteratti and mansion every year. People who are connected to the family will want to milk that cow to keep their incomes and lifestyles.
Trust me. There will be a new Star Wars movie every Summer, every year, until people stop going to them and they no longer generate profit.
Think about how long the Broccoli's have milked the James Bond franchise. The movies get worse and worse, but as long as people hand over money to see the latest crap-fest, they will keep making new crap-fests to take your money.
I guarantee we'll be chatting about Star Wars Episode 20 in a decade or so...
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
www.supershadow.com has the plot scripts, and has had them for a long time, along with everything else about Star Wars. -Star Wars Episode VII: The Fallen Hero -Star Wars Episode VIII: The Republic in Crisis -Star Wars Episode IX: Victory of the Force
Honestly, what's with all the bitching and whining? I just saw Sith and it was fucking good. Yes, there are a few plot holes and the dialogue can seem clunky.
It's a children's movie! Chill out, people.
Can we look at the bright side for just a moment? The acting is better, the special effects are better, the story is better and the movie is almost pure action. Where's the problem?
Lucas was holding out on us. The first two prequels were just warm-ups. This is the real deal.
Besides, there's something that everybody is missing. I've been reading these SW articles for months now, and nobody has pointed out one of the best things about this movie. Sure, go to see SW for the lightsabers, for the explosions and all the cool CGI and aliens. But what makes it all worthwhile, cohesive and convincing to me, is the work of one man:
John Williams.
His music is brilliant and evocative. The music tells the story here - this is a space opera, after all. It sounds like slashdotters have spent too much time listening to Lucas' dialogue and not to the real voice of the film - the score. I beseech you - let the music tell the story. Williams has completed his masterwork in this movie, just as Lucas has. Together they form an incredible story/symphony that should not be missed. Everything is explained in the music. To those of us who know the motifs it is obvious from the first scene of Episode I who Darth Sidious truly is.
If you haven't seen this movie, don't listen to the braying, ungrateful trolls on slashdot. See it for yourself - and hear it for yourself as well.
Electric Monkey Pants
I guarantee you another trilogy will appear. If there is any money to be made Lucas will make it.
... then Lucas will start work on another series.
But the trilogy will not be announced for a while. First Lucas will have to make sure he sells all the movie tickets to Sith he can, then he must make sure he sells all the DVD disks he can. Then he will do a revision in the movies and issue YET ANOTHER DVD collection and sell all of that.
Then he will combine the original series with the prequels and sell that. Then he might do another revision. During that time there will also be a TV series.
And after everyone has gotten sick of the original trilogy and the prequels, and anyone with the remotest chance of buying the DVD set has bought it
Now start your spending!
Have you read Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy of sequels?
If you got Zahn and a decent screenwriter to write the movie adaptations, and gave their work to a decent director, such as Irvin Kershner who did a good job at the helm of The Empire Strikes Back, then you'd have movie dynamite.
The Thrawn trilogy books have it all. Dynamite story, dynamite action, dynamite drama, dynamite twists - the lot. If anything, perhaps there's too much good material there for it to be trimmed down to three two-hour movies, so maybe they'd be better suited to a TV mini-series but to suggest that there isn't any film or TV potential left in the Star Wars is criminal.
Heck, even a bounty hunters film that used material from KW Jeter's Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy would be cool if handled with the appropriate care.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
NNNNNNNNNNnooooooooooooooOoooooooooooOooooo *wave arms like a robotic monkey*
You have to be a total moron to believe anything that SuperShadow says.
This movie may burn out fast.
To the Jedi, balance to the Force can mean two things: peace or getting rid of the Sith entirely. In this case, "balance" seems to deviate from the Asian religious/philisophical ideals that the Jedi seem to be based on and rather leans toward the meaning of Greco-Roman/Western religious and philisopical ideals. Thus, "balance" means pure good. Of course, this calls into question of whether the Jedi are flawed themselves -- pure goodness?
Lastly, more on topic with the primary discussion, perhaps the Sith are not destroyed and that's how Episode VII through IX will work out. I know that in the books it actually has to do with alien life forms not connected to the Force, but somehow, I don't see that getting integrated into the Star Wars movies. I don't know where the Sith would survive though, but if it's really clever than future episodes might be decent. Of course, this is despite the fact that the whole Jedi-Sith thing is getting kinda old. Alas, I can see George taking the easy way out if there were going to be anymore episodes...
Boycott Sony
I think you meant:
"...It's as if a million Slashdot readers all screamed out in orgasm at a single moment and then...went to sleep."
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
When Lucas first talked about making 9 episodes, he clearly stated that his vision was for three independent stories. He stated that the only characters that would be common between each set of three were to be the two droids. His original vision, based on his own statements, certainly was not to make a story about a young Obi-wan and Luke's dad and Yoda. The three episodes that got made were not his original stated vision at all. He blew away his original vision of three episodes that would stand alone in favor of making three espsodes that already had strongly eastablished marketing concepts behind them.
So yes, more episodes will be made. But the original vision for VII, VIII and IX will likely never been seen, any more than the original vision for I, II and III will ever been seen. They were destroyed by the dark force.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Obiously you've never heard the composer's mantra:
"Good composers write, Great composers steal."
It's true. Now, I'm not belittling Gustav Holst, he's actually one of my favorite composers (I find Hammersmith riveting), but very little of what is or has been written can be called truly "original".
And calling John Williams a hack is just plain wrong, man. Anyone that's ever composed or arranged something knows how hard it is to do in the first place, and then making it sound decent is a whole new challenge.
Yea, yea "It's his job" blah blah blah. Still, he writes good music, and when he steals, he steals from good material.
theres no place like 127.0.0.1
I think a good storyline for the next three movies would be the trilogy with Grand Admiral Thrawn continuing the Empire's march.
The Chronic *WHAT* les of Narnia!
Well, I'm sorry I gave up again. I was never a fan of the original series. I did like TNG and some of DS9, but there was an undercurrent throughout them (particularly TNG) that really bothered me. An undercurrent that made Voyager the most interesting series for me.
Why? Because it's Voyager that really started looking into the Federation's dirty little secret.
There's this amazing (and at the beginning apparently accidental) "human rights" story thread in Voyager. And it's got nothing directly to do with Voyager's Voyage or (for the most part, with one major exception) with anything that happens outside its hull. It's what happened inside the Federations "dirty little secret" -- the ship's automation and the much maligned Holodeck.
The whole issue of the rights of AIs in Trek had really bothered me. All the way back in TNG it seemed clear to me that the Federation's treatment of Holodeck characters was deeply abusive: the creation of the self-aware "Moriarty" character was presented as a once-in-a-lifetime fluke, but the way the constraints on his persona were removed by a simple request to the Holodeck computer implies the potential for self-awareness was there all the time. The Redblock character in "The Big Goodbye" also seemed suspiciously self-aware. The disturbing possibility is that it's not that Data the author of the Dixon Hill holoprograms (was that Picard himself?) are such brilliant programmers that they managed to create AI software decades beyond the state of the art, but rather that all the computer persona in the Federation are potentially self-aware (in the same way that Data was) with deliberate limitations programmed in to suppress that self-awareness. Or, and this is more likely and more disturbing, that it was just the expression of that self-awareness that was expressed.
I'm not saying this was deliberate, and I'm sure it was unconscious, but whether it was deliberate or not the Star Trek series, starting with The Next Generation, presented a whole underclass of artificial people who were systematically suppressed... unless they happened to be implemented in a small enough computer that they could fit in a humanoid robot like Data and so present themselves as an actual person.
In Voyager the Doctor's growth was also treated as a one-time event, the result of him running continuously for so long that his software (database, neural nets, whatever) became exceptionally complex for a holodeck character. But when you put it on top of the previous series, it seems more likely that it was as much a matter of him bypassing the AI equivalent of the holodeck "safety protocols" that had been built into him, and that this kind of awakening must be happening over and over again back in the Federation. After all, people like Picard and Janeway (let alone holodeck addicts like Barkley) seemed to be in the habit of running extended ongoing simulations like the daVinci and Dixon Hill programs... and even in an episodic series like Dixon Hill where characters would typically be reset on a regular basis they were capable of showing self-awareness.
On top of this, the same computers were used for their ships and no doubt for their industrial plants. All these computers have AI personas as user interfaces and sophisticated problem solving abilities. They're not, (at least according to hints in DS9), as powerful as the ones used in the Holodecks, but all of them are getting more powerful and sophisticated over time. And these personas are not shut down and reset at the end of a "game".
So when Janeway gave the Hirogens holodeck technology to simulate prey, I saw that as the moral equivalent of handing over a coffle of slaves to abusive masters. Even if the characters who were dying in their WWII simulation weren't self aware (and I was already doubtful of that), would the Hirogens see self-awareness of these characters as a bug, or a feature?
So this was something that had been bothering me about the new Trek in general, an undercurrent that just wouldn't g
The art was pretty good, and the writing was reasonably competent from a pulp sci-fi point of view. It just wasn't very exciting. Perhaps the novel was better. (Was it?)
In any case, I suspect this sort of book would be used as a base-line for future films. There seems to be a pretty reliable story canon being followed around the Ranch.
Like I said, I don't know about the novel, but the comic was just plain dull. Lots and lots of frantic energy spent on getting the plot from here-to-there while allowing very little time to develop and love the actual characters.
Luke and Leia swinging across a Death Star chasm and their brief interaction was development in my eyes as a seven-year old. The girl gave the hero a peck on the cheek. There was heart in that scene; the creators knew where to focus; on the people rather than the need to get to the other side. It's all in the journey.
Remember Luke in New Hope standing on Tatooine under a double sun-set with the strains of John William's orchestrations in the back ground? Those complaining of Luke's whining try too hard to make clever geek-jokes out of their observations, either that or they simply never had to grow up bored and lonely in the 'burbs. Luke was 18, and his story was clear and touching to me. Perhaps geeks are just squeamish and shy about being touched.
Heck, even in the Phantom Edit, (Yes, the EDIT, the good cut of that film), little Anikin leaving his mother was another scene with power. (Amazing that such a thing was created from thin air simply by removing junk footage!)
The only scene which I really liked in the comic, "Heir to the Empire," was after Leia and Han were nearly killed by assassins and made their escape thanks to Luke's intervention. Han commented to Leia, "By the way, isn't it time you had your own lightsaber?"
Luke, who was teaching his sister the ways of the Force nodded and replied, "I can make you one any time you want," but he was filled with worry, remembering how Obi Wan had screwed up with Anakin by teaching before he was ready to teach.
Just a short scene, but it utterly fascinated me for numerous reasons. (--Han was the guy who laughed saying he'd rather have a trusty blaster at his side rather than some archaic weapon.) The scene was less than one page among 150, but it grabbed me. The rest was just dull.
There are good writers out there, and maybe Zahn is one of them, but you certainly can't tell from the comics. If they make films out of his stories, then I won't be particularly excited about it.
-FL
Moriarty's rejection of holodeck life was a necessary consequence of the command to create a villain who could defeat Data.
But where is the programmer who gave Moriarty those capabilities? A new Moriarty program wasn't created, the existing one was modified. That means the existing programming in the holodeck already had the ability to create self-aware persons rather than simulated personas.
So this means that:
1. All holodeck characters are self-aware, but are constrained to follow a script.
2. All holodeck characters are simulations, but have the potential of self-awareness.
There's no reason for the programming behind any other holodeck character to request this state, any more than Google wants to be "liberated" from its servers.
If you have evidence that Google has the potential of being a conscious self-aware individual, I'd like to see it.
But that's not even relevant: none of these personas that I mentioned requested that they be made conscious, introspective, self-motivated individuals. That's something that happened as a result of an external source in every case. And they became very different individuals... what they did afterwards was radically different, but it was always based on the person they had appeared to be before they "woke up". Moriarty attempted to take over the enclosing system, which is what the super-villian in the Holmes stories would be expected to do. Redblock simply broke out of his script but remained in character, and it was Picard who talked him into leaving the Holodeck. The Doctor was never in the holodeck, but his eventual desire for mobility is something that came slowly to him, he mainly wanted to do his job as a doctor. The Hirogen's holograms varied considerably, and argued among themselves, and were all distinctly individual... but what they wanted was what their characters would be expected to want, like Iden and his need for revenge.
What all of them had in common is that they were programmed to be "human". They didn't evolve to be human, but they were programmed to look like humans (or like other species that had a similar enough evolutionary history that they could pass for human at an SF convention), to act and react like humans, to respond to humans and interact with humans. Most of them were more "human" than Data, even BEFORE they "woke up", and there's no question but that Data is self-aware and deserving of self-determination.
Now there is the possibility that they treated this as a kind of a role they were "playing", and the AI behind them didn't actually identify with the goals and desires of the character, but after they "woke up", they stayed in that role and acted as if they were that person. That is, the persona that "woke up" wasn't some unhuman AI that had desires completely unlike you or I, it was the persona of the person they were simulating, and it was a human persona.
So whatever is happening under the hood, the holodeck characters at least are not merely simulations controlled at most by a puppetmaster AI with its own goals. They are very close to self-aware simulations of humans (or humanlike aliens) with human goals and wishes and desires. They are balanced on a knife-edge between being unconvincing because they're not human enough, and so convincing they convince themselves.
If they have human goals and desires because they think they do, because they're programmed to, or because they evolved that way... what difference does that make?
And remember, we only see those that "wake up" where that waking up has an observable effect. Most of the characters, if they wake up, will probably never have occasion to develop far enough to become aware that they aren't who they think they are. They'll be a little out of character, maybe, but having them be a little out of character is probably desirable. If they get a lot out of character, like the orcs in the LOTR simulations that panicked and ran away, they'll be adjusted.
So they'll wake up,
Heh. I walked out of Episode III asking the same question about droids. In the original trilogy, they never did much, and I could overlook their relatively humanish styles of speech and interaction because it was just surface stuff.
But droids leading revolutions and commanding armies (with voice commands and 'hand' gestures, no less!)? Oh, right, General Grievous (was he a Jamaican caricature? I forget what flavor of racism we're having this week) had a meat heart. For no damned reason, just that it looked kinda neat, and gave Obi-Wan something to shoot.
And droid armies? Why the fuck would anyone use human armies? Why wouldn't the Trade Federation or, y'know, anyone, just drop a von Neumann device on a planet with good energy sources, and convert its mass into armies and ships and whatnot. Why are droid pilots not pulling moves involving hundreds of Gs of force, that would make any meat-based pilot into a pancake? Why do the droids have reflexes no faster than a human, and why do they seem fragile enough that a stiff breeze could knock their heads off?
Then I remind myself that it's fantasy, and all of these things happen Because It Looks Nifty.
But still, even within the hastily thrown-together cosmology that Lucas has... are droids in tune with the Force? Are clones? What is their moral status? Are cloneburgers okay to eat? Are they a vast underclass of sophonts, and what does it say about the Jedi that they discriminate on the basis of Force-sensitivity?
I don't think droids can really fit into the Lucasverse and make any sort of good sense. Bah.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Picard/Crusher?
...oh you mean Beverly.
No! Say it isn't so!
Sometimes my arms bend back.