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Hiper Type-R Modular Blue Line 580W PSU Review
MrIcee2 writes "XtremeResources today has on the test bench the Hiper Type-R Modular Blue Line 580W Power Supply Unit . Our European Senior Reviewer Grace evaluates the high end modular Power Supply Unit solution powering her Intel P4 3.73 EE, Asus P5AD2-E premium based test bench. Read along as she determines the flexibilty this unit offers in it's modular construction, and takes a look inside to see what make this unit the powerhouse that it is.
"Most users underestimate the necessity of a good, reliable and high quality power supply unit. They usually do not understand that it is the driving force for the whole system and it can affect reliability and stability substantially. An inadequate power supply unit will cause instability of the system at best, it may overload and burn out attached components in the worst case scenario. Hiper (High Performance Group) recently released the Type-R modular blue line HPU-4B580 power supply unit, which is competitively priced and claims to be able to offer everyone what they want and require. Hiper was nice enough to have us take a look at the unit, so we will shortly know if it can stand up to its claims."
Well, this is Slashdot: Ads for Nerds. :P
I always thought the ads were supposed to go in the panel on the top of the window, not in the "articles" section.
Aeris Died For Your Sins.
Sometimes we see... you know... exciting hardware, or groups of hardware... but a single power supply? WOW!
Must be a power supply for all the ricers!
Does it come with a free fusion plant to offset the power bills?
February 9th, 2009 8:55pm: Slashdot becomes self-aware.
So do we have to use a K&N air filter for the air intake to maximize the power?
I'm sure some neon lights will help too.
geek page at KY speaks
It seems to me that one of the whole points of digital is that as long as the power rails are above some sufficient level of performance, any improvement in performance is pointless. Power supply noise isn't an issue below some critical value. This reminds me of the crooks who try to sell people on $100 digital audio fiber optic cable for "higher fidelity."
Why am I not surprised to see X-Treme tech covering a Type-R anything?
Can't these guys come up with any more friggin' letters than X and R? =)
Young punks, get off my lawn.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
It's all just electrons, and any power supply large enough will power your computing needs. I suppose painting it metallic blue is cool because, of course, it's inside the case where looks really matter.
In the submitter's defense, he does have a point. If that cheap (but bigass) PSU doesn't put out a clean DC voltage, you're going to see some weird (and possibly intermittent) blips happen to your hardware. Do you think AC turns into DC magically? You need a quality full wave rectifier.
Plus there is the MTBF issue as well. I just had to trash my current Antec PSU because it started arcing and spewing smoke. If I hadn't been at home when this happened, my whole place could have burned down. Luckily, it didn't damage any of my other hardware.
I always thought a Hiper Type-R was a very fast keyboard...
"Who says nothing is impossible? Some people do it every day!" - Alfred E. Neuman
Why does the PSU have to be internal?
Why can't it be external like for laptops. That way heat isn't dissipated inside the computer case.
Can someone straighen me out here?
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
It's more troublesome then some really understand.
I can really appreciate the UL listings on the back of a television monitor after dealing with so much much equipment that doesn't have any listings.
When performing an evaluation... I had a friend recommend just getting an amperage meter tool to check the system needs. It really doesn't take in account the initial power spike, but it helps when things are poorly documented.
So... all I can say is...
Over spec, over spec and well... you know... over spec some more.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
First of all, wtf is with that name? All it needs is a few more Xs for Xtreme.
Anyway, thanks for a bunch of pictures of the PSU without actually telling me anything. If you want a real review of PSUs, head over ot X-bit labs. All of their reviews contain actual power data with power draw vs rated voltage graphs and scope readings of rail fluctuations. And one picture of the PSU if you actually care.
To make matters worse, there are no standards per se. For example, most mainboards these days draw CPU power from the 12v rail, but some (most notably a few Tyan boards) draw power for as many as two CPUs from the 5v rail instead.
When a power supply is listed as "XYZ watts," most users just assume that either it's big enough or it isn't. But a 550 watt power supply that only supplies 25a on the 5v rail giving the rest to 12v is going to flame out or melt wires eventually if your mainboard runs two CPUs on its 5v line. Meanwhile, a 550 watt that supplies 50a on the 5v line but only 10 or 15 on the 12 will flame out if your mainboard runs a pair of CPUs on 12v.
There really is that much variability, too--check the power supply listings on ebay for a single value like 450 watts and read the amperage ratings for each rail. That power is spread every which way depending on manufacturer whims.
To make matters more complex are all of the big hairy AGP card that people are running these days, which draw tons of current, too.
It's a big deal and probably will get bigger if we continue to use bigger and bigger CPUs and GPUs.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
You clearly have no idea how a) power supplies work and b) how marijuana growing works.
a) 580watt is it's rated maximum power output, on all three voltage rails combined. There are individual maximums for each voltage rail, so you would have to be exactly at each of those to be drawing the full 580 watts at any given time. You never max them all out, you max one out, typically the 5v. Point number two: 580 watts is its maximum power output. After that it may very well burn out or catch fire or whatever. Realistically if you're drawing anywhere near 580 watts you're going to be getting a very unstable system, because at that kind of output it cannot keep a reliable stream of power coming out. For a good power supply, you never want to exceed two thirds of its rated output. For a cheap powersupply, cut the rated output in half, or even to a third. You don't want a maximum sustained load above that. Third point: In all realistic use, PC powersupplies only approach their maximum at startup, when everything (hard drives, fans) is spinning up and all the capacitors are filling, etc.
b) Even modestly sized marijuana grow-ops (disclaimer: I am not one, I don't even smoke pot, so take this with a grain of salt) use absolutely ridiculous amounts of electricity. The grow-lights alone they use are typically 1 or 2 KILOwatts each, and if you think they're using only one or two lights you're crazy. The temperature control also uses a hell of a lot of electricity for hydroponics. I have 7 computers in my house, two of them very hefty servers, and all of them with at least 340watt power supplies. My power usage on my last bill was 671 kilowatt-hours for a month. A grow-op will use that much in a week, or even days.
Random and weird software I've written.
Laptops actually only have a portion of the power supply outside the case. They convert to 28V, for example. Converting to a low voltage like 3.3V outside the case is inefficient, for the same reason that houses don't use 10V power. If you have a device that needs 330W, it can take 12A at 28V or 100A at 3.3V. Now, let's consider the resistance in the wires. If they are 0.01 ohm/foot, and you have 1 foot of wire, then you will lose 0.01*12 or 0.12V if you use 28V , or you will lose 0.01*100 or 1V at the 3.3V input. Now, at 28V, you lost 0.5% of your power. At 3.3V you lost 30%. And this is over one foot. If the wire is 3 foot, it gets far worse. So it is smart to run high voltage as much of the way as possible, and the low voltage runs should be short. Again, this is the same to your house. Laptops get away with this because they use less power, less power is less power lost. And as I said, they don't put the power supply outside the machine, only part of the power supply. It might be smart to put the rectification (AC->DC conversion) outside the case, because it doesn't reduce the voltage and it does generate heat. But it really won't save you much. On a final note, connectors have a voltage drop of their own, so it really isn't smart to put extra connectors in the low voltage outputs from the power supply. New power supplies are doing this, because it sells units, but it will cost you in the end in lost efficiency and lower reliability (connectors can break).
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
"Type-R" is well-known among the racing enthusiasts, as a tuned up version of the original platform to its maximum output
Nope. Actually, I know it to be mostly used for badge engineering- aka posturing.
There's a strong preference among many car enthusiasts for vehicles that just don't stand out. We call them "sleepers", and their performance and subtlety speak for themselves.
For example, with just a litre more displacement- helps to have 5 cylinders instead of 4) and a turbo- I've got around 150-180 more HP than them. A manual transmission (don't laugh, half the ricers drive automatics), all wheel drive, and not a single badge on the car except rings on the trunklid and 'quattro' in the front grille.
Kicker? Blue book value is probably half to a third what a new base-price honda coupe costs. Granted repairs are a little more common, but in the end, for some of us, the occasional hassle is worth it :-)
Please help metamoderate.
Before you spend your hard-eanred cash on such fancy item, be sure to go to http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/ and calculate your PSU requirements, which will likely inform you that, unless you're in the exceptionally rare minority, far less expensive PSUs with less wattage will more than suffice.
Well, it looks pretty enough. Not a single mention as to any of the important stats, however. Modern hardware sucks up an incredible amount to juice, and this review did not mention how many amps on each rail, or decibels when the PS was running under load.
Been burned on crappy 'high wattage' power supplies before. Worth reading the Watts don't mean Jack sticky and a few others in the form if you are looking to build a SLI system.
Type-R... It was bad enough to buy a DFI 'LanParty UT SLI-DR' board, of which only three letters told me anything about it. What is with these marketing people?
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
A "quality full wave rectifier" can be made with four power diodes at less than a dollar each; the PX6007 springs to mind, or the BR106 bridge package if you need really heavy currents. But any full-wave rectifier puts out pulsed DC, it is up to the filters and regulator section to provide a clean output.
In my experience repairing PSUs, problems are usually caused by poor quality or inadequate filtering components (which can leave noise on the supply rails), capacitors failing or an under-rated or overheating switching transistor (FET/SCR/IGBT etc). The full wave rectifier is rarely a source of problems, and often remains intact even when the rest of the PSU is a charred mess.
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This is supposed to be a review of high-end power supply specs and it never mentions ripple? How about overvoltage protection? Aging? Brownout or surge protection? So how stable is the output of this supply? Real stable. Oh, OK.
... may blow up". Yeah, I think I saw this on Star Trek last week. If they would only stop making those cheap supplies out of TNT.
Then there are statements like this in the review: "Cheap power supply units
No price anywhere. Can it unseat the competition? Who knows?
The use of Honda's unrelated Type-R performance label tells me they are appealing to quality by association to something they deserve no merit for.
The review site talks up the need for a beefy PSU, but shows no methodical testing whatsoever.
Seems to me the editors are a bit detached from if not journalistic integrity, at least some base duty they have to give us relevant stories. This is a clue to the sort of fuzzy logic is used when choosing submissions. Choices seem related more to pandering than genuine identification with the interests of slashdot readers.
No wonder they got rid of John Katz, lest it be too obvious. He writes for MSN now.
I have noticed that I run a bit undervoltage according to PC Probe on the +5 and +12 lines but the stability is rock solid so I havnt worried about it (athlon 64 on a 480W I believe)
Bottles.
I couldn't find a US reseller though.
Was the most expensive one:
Topower 420
It was in my gaming PC to protect the expensive components. I turn that thing on once a week at best. I also have a no-name PSU that cost me $30 with the case that has been on for the past five years with zero problems. Go figure.
Yeah, it's a pretty box that has a big number by the word Watt.
I don't know this power supply and it may be solid. But one thing most PSU manufacturer's keep hidden is the temperature that these's PSU are tested at. Some boast Watts of over 500, but at temperatures of 25 C.
The hotter your PC is, the lower the Watts your PSU puts out. It was something I learned before by nVidia's latest videocard.
I went with PC Power and Cooling for the reason that they display the Watts AND the temperature that it runs at.
PC Power and Cooling Turbo 510: 510W at 50 C
They didn't get UL listed because (A) it costs money and time, neither of which a fly-by-night company is willing to invest; (B) it probably wouldn't've got past the UL engineers.
If this PSU catches fire and burns your house down, your insurance company will not cover it because you are using unlisted electrical appliances. No joke, son.
...but the build quality is awful. Check this image: cramped cables (without need), restricted airflow, solder joints holding weight, bent circuit boards, minuscle heatsinks, panel mount parts glued with silicone... no wonder it needs two fans (and one is 120mm)!!!
Come on, i know ATX power supplies are limited in size, but i have an "el-cheapo" Chinese 300w PSU which works like a charm and it's much better designed and built. It looks cool, and it seems that it's very good at regulating the output voltages, but you can get that elsewhere without the glitz. No mention of it's price either.
To be honest, i wouldn't want that powering my PC.
A name like "Sparkle" for a PSU doesn't fill me with confidence, but at least is isn't called "Flash BANG!"
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Rectifier? I hardly knew her.
But seriously, folks. Getting DC sufficient for digital is really not that difficult. Any noise in the power supply will just translate into noise in the outputs of the transistors. And as long as that noise is within the margins of the logic, it disappears at the next transistor, so that the noise never "cascades" like it would with analog processing. That's the magic of digital. Hard to believe it would be hard to convince people of that on /. of all places, but I guess people loves them their pretty blue power supplies.
The use of Honda's unrelated Type-R performance label tells me they are appealing to quality by association to something they deserve no merit for.
Perhaps you could just take a regular power supply and put a "Type R" sticker on it. The kid down the street put a Type R sticker on his Toyota, and he claims the sticker alone makes it faster.
If you really wanted maximum performance from your power supply, you have to put a bunch of Japanese characters all over the power supply, as well as do a really bad job of placing it lower in your computer's case. Also, you'd have to solder a giant coffee can to the cooling fan, because that makes it goes faster too.
The Internet is generally stupid
Comment removed based on user account deletion
First, because of the shitty way that digital audio is transmitted, cables actually can make a difference, at least in the copper realm. Not sure about fibre, I'm inclined to believe not but who knows. At any rate, how can there be any problems with digital you ask? Well because the way the elected to do transmission is not only data, but clock as well down the wire. So this means that not only is if a bit is 1 or 0 important, but WHEN that bit happens is equally important.
The phenomena of a clock being irregular is called jitter and it's quite audible. However it's a funynt hing, you can fuck up a DAT unit so that it jitters so bad that a DAC has trouble locking on the signal and man will you hear it, it'll be awful. But, if you use another DAT to make a digital copy, it'll come out perfect, since there you are just concerned with the data, not the clock (well that's not entirely true, but the clock is stored globally).
So what can happen with a cable of improper impedeance espically in a noisy environment is that the changes in voltage introduce jitter in to the signal, and thus cause distortion. Now I don't htink this happens with optical signals, but I don't know, I suppose it could. Now please don't mistake this for meaning you need some special audiophile cable, but there can be a difference between some random RCA cable and a properly shielded 75 ohm cable made for S/PDIF.
As for PSUs, yes you get better performance from a better PSU. Not better speed wise, better stability wise. You get lots of stability problems from a shitty PSU. You have to remember that ene if you don't load down your PSU (shitty PSUs don't perform under load) line voltage isn't stable. At best it's mildy unstable, at worst it can be really unstable. Well a good PSU can provide stable output even during voltage sags or spikes. Shitty ones will change the output voltage, which is highly likely to cause a crash.
Now while I wouldn't trust something like this to be high end, it looks like so much hype, it really is a buying concern. Don't get some brand X POS, spend the money to get a real quality powersupply. I'm a fan of Antec and Fotron/Sparkle personally. If you want something really solid, it's hard to beat PC Power and Cooling but they tend to be on the loud and expensive side. Good for servers though.
At any rate, there IS a measureable difference between good and bad power supplies. There's also the question of what happens in the event of a failure. Suppose it over heats or the output limits are exceeded, what's it do? A good one will cut power and not cause a problem. Bad ones often catch fire.
As you would have found if you'd clicked on the company link in the article, the company name is "High Performance PC LTD". Now try searching the UL database again (look for file E245388), and post a correction. Moderators may want to do the same thing.
*runs & hides*
A "quality full wave rectifier" can be made with four power diodes at less than a dollar each; the PX6007 springs to mind, or the BR106 bridge package if you need really heavy currents.
;-)
To be honest, I'd much rather be using a mercury arc rectifier - semiconductors are for wimps!
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
Switching power supplies don't use full wave rectifiers.
Indeed they do. The switch is essentially a PWM delivering a chopped DC signal with a mark-space ratio modified by feedback from the output rail. The DC is provided by a bridge rectifier feeding a high voltage capacitor of modest value; by using a half-wave rectifier you need double the capacitance to achieve the same ripple trough, and high voltage capacitors are much more expensive than diodes.
Here's an example of an ATX PSU: http://www.pavouk.comp.cz/hw/atxps.png The bridge rectifier is at the top left, components D21-24.
What switchmode PSUs don't use is large stepdown transformers. You can find out more at http://www.smps.us/smpsdesign.html. Google is your friend.
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