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Microsoft Censoring Blogs on MSN China
jdfox writes "The BBC is reporting that Microsoft is censoring blogs on MSN China. The words 'freedom', 'democracy' and 'demonstration' are reportedly among the words being blocked.
But the article also points out that Microsoft is not the first corporation to censor content when the Chinese government requests it." Slashdot covered this story a few days ago too.
This story is a dupe....reported previously as "Microsoft Bans 'Democracy' for China's Web Users" on Saturday, June 11th.
Dupes are nothing new here, but the following is what really boggles me...
From TFS:
Um...OK...if you know it's a dupe, why is it still being re-reported?
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Yes, but what of fr33d0m, d3m0cracy, and dem0nstrat1on?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
..they'd simply pull out of the Chinese market.
But whats human rights and freedom when theres
market share and online presence at stake. Right?
The words 'freedom', 'democracy' and 'demonstration' are reportedly among the words being blocked.
What about 'linux', 'google' and 'apple'?
"On this site in 1989, nothing happened." - Tianenmen Square plaque
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
Yeah, that's pretty shitty, but I wouldn't say it's Microsoft's fault. If they want to do business in China they have to comply with Chinese law. Chinese law's kinda oppressive. News at 11.
Wow, so Microsoft is responsible for the lack of human rights in China? But China is awesome right? I mean, they use linux, how can they be bad?
I bet they only use linux for the good stuff, and then they switch over to a MS box when they need to do some oppressing.
... that the dollar is more important than freedom or principles.
I guess it shouldn't be any surprise the Microsoft and other companies are anxious to help China maintain and strengthen it's totalitarian government, since it's the government that controls the purse strings.
It should give all of us in this country pause. Microsoft obviously has no issues with a government that has it's army fire upon students demonstrating for democracy. It's a short step from there to helping an American administration (of whichever party) do the same thing in this country. Considering how much money Microsoft was saved by the hand slap it got from Justice after being convicted of monopolistic practices, I would assume Bill Gates feels deeply indebted to the present administration.
Apparently, even Google, a company that claims it's unofficial motto is "Dont' Be Evil", doesn't feel like it has a responsibility to behave ethically.
It wasn't defense spending in the U.S. that caused the fall of Communisim in the USSR, it was blue jeans and walkmans -- simple economics. It became glaringly obvious to everyone in communist states that they were being deprived the advances that were cheap to citizens of democratic countries.
The Chinese have never been stupid or foolish. They learned from the lesson of the USSR and they are modernizing their economy in order to prevent a similar revolution. It is unfortunate that companies like Microsoft, Google, and Walmart are so quick to help them.
China is still a totalitarian government. China allows the use of slave and prison labor to produce goods which show up on American store shelves. Ever wonder why goods made in China are so inexpensive?
The American government and businesses are not just hurting the Chinese people by helping such a government; they are hurting American citizens. We are losing jobs. We are becoming a nation that produces nothing but Reality TV shows. Worse the lesson to our children is that freedom only counts until someone offers you more money.
These companies argue that by doing business with China, they are improving the lives of ordinary Chinese. How can we trust them? There have been numerous stories about the use of prison labor and child labor to produce goods bound for America. Can they really know that they are helping the average Chinese when China does not have a free press that can report how things actually are? I sincerely doubt that the workers in China are getting the same wages and benefits that American workers would get. I wonder if they are even getting enough more to substantially change their lives.
If you are going to stand for freedom, you have to do it all the time, not just when it's financially attractive.
-All that is gold does not glitter - Tolkien
www.ra
Seriously, this should be viewed as a really really awful thing on the part of MS. Isolate those effing ChiComs until they're ready to live up to the same standards of freedom as the nations of the civilized world.
Blocking information in this century is really a grave mistake. We've finally reached a stage where the entire data is at our fingers - if Douglas Adams were alive, he'd say Earth has finally finished calculating the ultimate question. Why is a govt. afraid of it's online content? Sounds like those Nazi days of Germany when it was previleged to have uncensorsed information about the rest of the world. The Chinese need to do something.
it took this to shed light on that for you? No offense but I see THAT as sad. If you haven't figured it out now, the major corporations in America do everything in their power to limit our rights in our own country. Whatever it takes to make more money, that's always been their motto.
As it is, people in China will find ways round the censorship, but the Tiananmen Square protests pointed out to their government that they need to improve the standard of living. Enough so that their people will be as disinterested in the governance of their country as those in many western democracies.
That's why I'm disgusted that Microsoft is eagerly cooperating with their censorship.
Where's the Kaboom?
There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
Um .. hate to burst your bubble, but *all* companies are about money.
There is no moral compunction for companies to do anything. As can be seen with all sorts of disasters in the past wehere companies have done stuff which was damaging to people/environment/markets/[insert favourite disaster] but to their own profit. Companies are only compelled to do things against their bottom dollar by two main things:
1) People voting with their wallets (but if you don't know what bad practices they have in their closets, how do you know how to vote that way?)
2) Government regulation. ie laws, legislastion etc (But what do you do when the comapny is in bed with the legislators?)
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
I'd bet money that half of you people who see nothing wrong with MS capitulating to the totalitarian desires of China bashed the shit out of IBM for it's activities during WWII.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
"Meanwhile, China continues to be a major source of new American immigrants, and remains a big prize for companies wishing to help it along with building a more capitalistic society." The article asks if there a way for Microsoft in particular, and global businesses in general, to avoid this sort of controversy - whether, that is, they stay agnostic regarding specific political issues, domestic and international. The answer would seem to be: "No!"
We Are Microsoft -- your political, sociological and economical distinctiveness will be added to our own... Resistance is futile...
Peter Corcoran
Of course if you really want to get all tinfoil hat about it, then the best way to censor/control people is to let them believe they are not being censored/controlled. If you can pull that off then you have complete control.
Just look at what the current US administration has done in the name of the war on terror. The TSA and Homeland Security can get away with almost anything because "the people" have been convinced that it is all for their own good.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Without sounding like a troll, I have the feeling that many people don't really care about rights here or abroad so long as the dividends are paid. If it comes down to meeting The Street estimates or taking a stand against human rights abuses, most investors will choose the latter -- some because they don't care, some because they don't believe it is their corporation's place to be involved in that.
I recall asking my father if he would buy $.10 hamburgers from a restaurant that used slave labor. Without blinking he said, "Of course". I guess so long as it is their jackboot on someone else's face, they won't have any problems with the system.
Recall that Microsoft, as a publicly traded corporation, has a fiduciary responsibility to make as much profit as possible without doing anything illegal. You can bet your bottom dollar that if a pro-active stance regarding China decreases profits, the directors will be replaced by those who will change that policy.
This is not aimed at you personally. Whenever China and Human Rights appear on slashdot I find the post is more often than not actually about politics rather than Human Rights
/rant
Before you start throwing stones at China consider that over the past 30yrs the Chineese Govt has dragged 600 million people above the $1/day poverty line and significantly improved the standard of living of hundreds of millions more. Not so long ago parents in the West used to say "eat your dinner, there starving in China", (well at least mine and J.Lennon's did). If we were to confiscate the income of the richest 500 people in the world we could do the same thing for another billion.
Does this mean China is a nice place to live? do the means justify the ends? (re: "enemy combatants", "confiscation from the rich", "population control"). You can argue about history, politics and philosophy all day, but one thing remains indisputable. Over the last few decades they have done more than anyone else to relive the needless suffering of 1/5th of the worlds poorest people. The worldwide reduction in the incidence of starvation since the 1960's is almost entirely due to Chineese peasants having enough to eat. Personally I don't think the Chineese give a flying-fuck about what MS thinks because they will simply pull the plug if they don't play nice.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
That doesn't have anything to do with MSN blogs in China! If you don't like the embargo, fine. But it is hardly a valid counter-point in a discussion on whether or not MS should comply with the Chinese government. In fact, the poster you replied to didn't even mention Cuba. If you have an opinion on something and you want people to take it seriously, it is best to discuss it at an appropriate time. Lashing out at people who didn't even bring it up just to make your point known is going to detract from your argument and the way people listen to you (if they listen at all).
-KD
What if the Chinese Gov had requested that for every blog posted on MSN Spaces, Bill Gates had to kill a dog?
He should do it, right? After all, that's respecting the laws of a country you're operating in and that's what Microsoft believes should be done.
I don't see how it's any different. Both are proactive moves and both stand against most people's moral standards. I think Microsoft's management would see things far differently if the results were right there in front of them. They're actively aiding in suppressing human rights, as defined by their own country. For this reason, and because Microsoft is not a military or political power (give it a few years), the only morally acceptable action would be to stay out of the markey.
you are being SO naive, it hurts. The USA trades DAILY with really nasty gummints all over the world.
Furthermore, the US gummint itself is doing really nasty things all over the world.
You drive a car? Where do you think the oil comes from? Some peace loving bunch of desert hippies?
You buy some sneakers? Who do you think made them? Some upper middle class suburbanite in a clean well lighted climate controlled office?
You buy your love a diamond ring? where do you think the diamond came from? Assembled in some pollution free factory in Middle America and dug from the earth by harmless robots?
EVERY purchase you make as a first world consumer has far reaching and devastating effects on other people and the environment. Your very lifestyle sits at the heart of an ignominious betrayal of the human spirit.
the difference is: I know this and I work to fight it as best I can - and I know that carping about China or Cuba isn't going to change things one bit. Yes they are despotic regimes, but Cuba's infant mortality rate is much better than the USA's and China's financing the federal debt so our idiot president can go pound the middle east and make the oil safe for the Chinese to buy - tool that he is.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.