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Opera: Firefox User Figures 'Inflated'
Anonymous Coward writes "ZDNet
notes, 'The chief executive of Opera Software claimed on Monday that the market share figures for Mozilla Firefox are inflated, due to its support for link prefetching" In addition, "Opera has a better caching mechanism so it doesn't access Web sites as often as other browsers" and "Opera is configured by default to identify itself as Internet Explorer' "
Opera is configured by default to identify itself as Internet Explorer
who's fault is that?
Aren't you supposed to be swimming somewhere?
If Opera is identifying itself as IE, isn't IE getting overcounted and Opera undercounted?
And whose fault is that? Maybe if you would default your browser to itself rather than trying to pass itself off as someone else the statistics would show an even deeper drop in IEs marketshare and an increase in your share.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Opera is configured by default to identify itself as Internet Explorer
In other words, they provide skewed data that helps Microsoft present itself as leader of the browser market. That's intelligent, way to go. At least you could have picked up a F/OSS browser to masquerade Opera...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Bug 55279 tried to fix this five years ago. But the feeling was that Mozilla users were smarter than the average user and wouldn't do this (which may have been true back then). Bug 238159 attempted to address just one aspect of the problem, double-clicking submit forms (which causes tons of race conditions). But again, nobody seems to care.
Slashdot monitor for your Mozilla sidebar or Active Desktop.
What the heck is this guy von Tetzchner smoking? Doesn't he realize yet that nobody cares about the technical details? People (web developers, plugin writers, users) only care about the big numbers. They don't want to think about the results, they only want to know: who is first, and by how much? Is the second place browser big enough to notice?
Opera is nice, but the Opera execs should realize already that they can't sell their browser when their customers can download a perfectly good one for free.
"There's companies that are just so cool that you just can't even deal with it," - Bill Gates, about Google
FTFA:
"A lot of people don't like our ads, which is sad as we don't have a rich sugar daddy like the Mozilla Foundation. They [the Mozilla Firefox team] don't have to think about money as they're being funded. We're not being funded," said von Tetzchner.
Rich Suger Daddy?!? No. Firefox users feel generous enough to donate to the foundation to help support a great FREE browser. This type of competition bashing is not good for business.
[n8.r0n] http://petesweb.spymac.net/
I got something in my email inbox this morning which might help with this situation. Perhaps I should forward it to you.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
With suitable proxies, you can make Lynx look like Internet Explorer. Of course the wrong service pack will make Internet Explorer behave like Lynx.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Aren't all market share numbers hyped?
I bet I have reinstalled Windows 10 times in the past few years, and each time I update IE and download several other software packages over and over again.
And as far as actual web usage, those stats must be all over the place because some sites do a better job of cross browser compatibility than others and other sites, like Slashdot, appeal to a non-IE crowd while still others, like MSN, do not.
So this whole article should really just be a reminder to not believe everything someone else wants you to.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
Even though some may take that as joke, it is not necessarily true. Competition is competition. If I were Opera I would want to be better than Mozilla AND better than IE and any of the small fries (Konqueror). Even now, I don't see how "sticking together" with Mozilla would be in Opera's best interest. The standards for the Web are open, whoever implements them best should be acknowledged. Finally, if your main or only goal as a browser is to "beat IE" then as a browser you will ultimately fail.
Many sites have all sorts of BS warning popups, redirects, and restrictions on browsers other than IE (often not placing restrictions on firefox btw) even though they render and work just fine in Opera. The folks at Opera have decided that the user experience is more important than their stats.
Anyone know if Opera is now or ever has been a profitable company? I really hope so, because even with low stats a profitable browser company that competes with both free bundled IE and free firefox makes a powerful statement.
bit trollent
Firefox only prefetches links when the links are marked on the previous site as "hey you might want to prefetch this".
Specifically on Google, only the top result is marked as prefetch. And even then, only when Google has determined that most visitors would choose it. Google has said that they mark it for things such as prefetching cnn.com when somebody searches for "CNN".
The article states: "...which means that Firefox will pre-load the top search results into its cache." which is innacurate. It should say "...which means that Firefox will pre-load the top search result into its cache when Google thinks there is a very high probability you will visit the first result."
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You walk down the street,a nd ask people what the computer program Opera does, you'd get no answer in 100.
You do the same thing with Firefox, and people know what you're talking about as mcu as they don't.
I don't need any hard stats and figures to know that Firefox has made a more profound impact on people and the internet than many other things in a long time.
Pretty Pictures!
Firefox Advocates are not exactly known for sparing other "small" Browsers critizism either...
Linux is not Windows
So my non-technical father calls me the other day to tell me all about this new Browser called Firefox that the tech support guy at AT&T (his dialup provider) told him would help with the popups he was fighting against.
This is the first time I have ever heard of a tech support person, save at AOL/Netscape, recommending an alternative web browser.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
A ZDNet article indicates the prefetching is for Google searches only. I am not sure this would account for a 9 point spread between browsers.
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
Yup.
And Google only supports Mozilla's prefetching for a couple of weeks. Before that, Firefox's market share wasn't significantly lower, was it? Besides, only the raw source code gets prefetched as far as I know. Scripts, images and the like are only executed/loaded when a user actually visits the page. So, when Firefox prefetches a site, it should be visible in the site's logs, but I don't think it could trigger a third-party counter/tracker. Also, Google only prefetches certain sites, not any site.
And that Opera identifies itself as IE is a valid concern, but that's Opera's fault, and nothing that would inflate Firefox's version numbers, just IE's.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
It's okay. I have my Firefox browser set to report itself as Opera. So, this cancels out and indeed the figure of 3 active users is accurate.
Hey Sun Tzu, I'd just like a browser that doesn't suck. If Mozilla chases Microsoft into making a browser that doesn't suck, I'll be fine with it. I'd really like, however, to be spared the posturing, politics, and ideology that comes with a war mentality. Especially for something as silly as a damn web browser.
I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
Actually Webmasters thinking like you lead to the problem in the first place. Neither webmasters nor the browsers should work around and tweak for specific instances of the other, they should just both use the standard.
Linux is not Windows
1. "Opera is configured by default to identify itself as Internet Explorer' "
Isn't that fraud?
No. Fraud is about using lies for direct financial gain, and requires specific intent. Opera identifies itself as IE for interoperability purposes, something that "modern" tech laws (such as the DMCA) protect.
Plus, the whole point of the www is that it is browser independent. So this is unstandard behavior, and should be shunned(2).
I'm sure Grandma will think it's great that her bank and realtor websites don't work because Opera is taking a stand.
The real blame for this lies first in Netscape (which extended the web in many incompatible ways, but at least worked on every OS) and later in Microsoft (who used Netscape's tactics to sew up the web). If Tim Berners-Lee was dead, I'm sure he'd be rolling in his grave. Instead he's had to settle for being alive and helping correct this nonsense.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Well, perhaps you are only interested in a "browser that doesn't suck", but other people (i.e. me) may be interested in how well a browser supports web standards, whether it is open source, and how many platforms it runs on. This is on top of "does it suck?" features like security and plug-in support. Mozilla will only scare MS into being "good enough" to take back market share. And it isn't "good enough" that I (or many people, for that matter) are interested in. For example, "good enough" doesn't buy you web standards. Many small browsers allying themselves to pressure the big guys does. And standards are a good thing.
Finally, there is nothing remotely "silly" about a web browser. You may only use it to make snide comments on Slashdot, but web browsers support hundreds of billions of dollars in business, which, I would argue, is far from silly. The security and availability of such a program is quite important, really.
Spoken like an Opera user, you insensitive clod!
F1R3F0X 4EV4R LOLOLOLZY
Well, perhaps you are only interested in a "browser that doesn't suck", but other people (i.e. me) may be interested in how well a browser supports web standards, whether it is open source, and how many platforms it runs on. This is on top of "does it suck?
No, this is about not sucking. The standards are out there, and do not require comparisons to other browsers. I know browsers are important software, but they still don't justify continuing this idiotic "browser war" nonsense. I'm sick of war, I'm sick of war metaphors, and "silly" was the kindest euphimism I could use to describe the negative reaction I'm having to all the god damned posturing.
I use a web browser that doesn't suck, and it happens to be Firefox, but I will not join your damn crusades.
I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/
I avoid IE because of security problems, but ironically I need to use it to get Windows security patches.
They do say "If you prefer to use a different Web browser, updates to Windows may be downloaded from the Microsoft Download Center", though.
$8.95/mo web hosting
Preach on!
I conform to standards as best I can when building web pages, surf with Safari on my Mac and Firefox on my work PC... but I would gladly switch to IE without hesitation if Microsoft were to make a browser that does the job better, just as I once dropped Netscape Navigator for IE 5.
I love western civilization in general, but this is the one part of our culture which drives me nuts lately: the completely vicarious "us"-versus-them cheerleading... what I like to call the "sports fan" mentality.
"I usually vote Democrat, so everytime a car-bomb goes off in Iraq, I'm happy because it makes Bush's decision to go to war look worse."
"I'm a protestant, so every time another story about a cover-up of pedophile priests comes out, I'm giddy with laughter over the human tragedy, because it's a huge embarrassment to Catholics."
"I'm a Linux user, so every time Microsoft users are hit with a virus which shuts down entire companies for the day and costs the US economy millions of dollars, I can barely contain my joy."
Fuck all of you! Groups you are "rooting against" doing poorly, or even groups you are "rooting for" doing well, does nothing to make you a better person, nor does it actually make the world a better place. Get some goddamn perspective and stop being so myopic about your little meaningless dogma! You sound just like a little kid arguing with the neighbor kid over who's faster, Superman or The Flash.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
The thought just occurred to me that we could use one problem to fix another here. We want to get webmasters coding for standards-compliant web browsers, right? Problem Number 1 is that they generally don't. Problem Number 2 is that Windows is highly susceptible to malware and viruses. So how about someone just write a virus that changes IE's user agent string to a random pick from Firefox, Opera, Safari, Mozilla or any other browser out there? Webmasters would no longer be able to trust the user agent strings they receive, so they'll have to just code to standards instead.
Then we'll see just how fast Microsoft can get a security update out when their web monopoly is being threatened.
Even if the Opera dude was right, Firefox is free, open-source, extensible and has a bazillion amazing extensions. I'll take that over paying for Opera or using the free version that is stuffed with adware.
I agree that Opera is a decent browser and they've been decent for a long time. I just don't want to pay for a browser or be forced to view advertisements. And thanks to Firefox, I don't have to.
My only complaint is that Firefox seems to run painfully slow on OSX.
I would gladly switch to IE without hesitation if Microsoft were to make a browser that does the job better, just as I once dropped Netscape Navigator for IE 5.
Virtually *everyone* would switch to Windows+IE if it was truly better (in the ways important to them) than the alternatives. But almost *no* MS offering is actually the best available.
Fuck all of you! Groups you are "rooting against" doing poorly, or even groups you are "rooting for" doing well, does nothing to make you a better person, nor does it actually make the world a better place.
Are you sure? For every time MS loses an IE customer to Firefox, just that many fewer people will get hit with malware, that many fewer shady organizations will make money on spyware, and MS might, just maybe, be forced into making IE better.
So yes, it most certainly *can* and *does* make the world a better place, and *can* and *does* make you a better person.
Get some goddamn perspective and stop being so myopic about your little meaningless dogma!
Yeah, most people are dogmatic and stupid, so you're right there. But rooting for a rationally chosen side not "myopic".
You sound just like a little kid arguing with the neighbor kid over who's faster, Superman or The Flash.
And then you post that neither is faster, but you use Superman to deliver your mail since he's faster right now, yet would gladly call on the Flash if he could speed up a bit.
Opera reports itself as "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; en) Opera 8.01"; this isn't a case of Opera being completely unidentifiable by default. A swift F12-i and Opera reports "Opera/8.01 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en)"
Opera's default cache settings are more aggressive than other browsers' and they sometimes result in annoying problems (URLs ending in .html are apparently considered static HTML, even though they are often dynamically generated). Opera feels slower than MSIE when the cache settings are "correct", at least on my PC ...
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)