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Microsoft To Extend RSS

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the yay-another-microsoft-standard dept.

Joshua53077 writes "Microsoft announced today a plan to 'extend the RSS standard to better support the publishing of ordered lists of information...' This feature will be included in Longhorn. It appears as though they will be including RSS support in Internet Explorer, which will come over a year and a half after the same technology was introduced in Apple's Safari RSS." From the article: "Gary Schare, director of strategic product management in the Windows division of Microsoft, says that while RSS is a reliable standard for updating information in message form, it currently has no logical way to organize that information in a way that could help subscribers keep track of what is being fed to them."

36 of 375 comments (clear)

  1. Bye, bye RSS .... by Luscious868 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Repeat after me "embrace and extend" ....

    1. Re:Bye, bye RSS .... by wilsone8 · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's not embrace and extend when the guy that created the RSS standard (Dave Winer), has a post up today about how Microsoft specifically asked him if it would be ok to extend the spec before going down this path and how he thought this would be a good addition to the RSS spec.

      http://www.reallysimplesyndication.com/2005/06/22# a634

      From the article: "The story begins in March of this year. I got a call from Robert Scoble saying there was a group on the MSIE team that wants to extend RSS to handle lists. I was immediately supportive of this, I told Scoble that some people think I'm conservative about extending RSS, but I'm actually liberal. The only thing I don't like is when people invent new ways of expressing data that RSS already defines. He assured me this isn't what was going on."

      --
      The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do. - B.F. Skinner
    2. Re:Bye, bye RSS .... by Baricom · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm honestly curious about this because this type of action by MS is fuzzy in my head. Is it really that bad? What should they do?

      A promise to not patent whatever it is they're doing would be an excellent start.

    3. Re:Bye, bye RSS .... by jpickett · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And if you read how Microsoft is handling their extentions, frankly I don't see what the issue is. So someone thought of a way to make RSS potentially better, and they're sharing it with other people.

      As I see it MS had two options:

      1) Create their own proprietary standard and have everyone bitch at them or;
      2) Use an existing standard, try and OPENLY build on it to do what they want, and only have retards like Slashdot minions bitch about it.

      Sure it's flamebait but I'm sick of this crap. Also wilsone8, I'm not directing this to you, just all the others that don't care to educate themselves first.

  2. How? by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So how exactly will they be changing the standard to make it incompatable with non-Microsoft readers?

    --

    Technoli
    1. Re:How? by saintp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Special features to interact with Exchange and/or Outlook.

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      Another one bites the dust
    2. Re:How? by Reverend528 · · Score: 5, Funny

      They're going to add a "Marquee" tag so that rss readers can now support scrolling headnlines.

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      Badass Resumes
    3. Re:How? by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 4, Funny

      Special features to interact with Exchange and/or Outlook.

      Whee, RSS Viruses! :D

    4. Re:How? by Decaff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Special features to interact with Exchange and/or Outlook.

      That won't break the use of RSS with existing software. RSS is a dialect of XML. XML is designed to be extended without breaking existing uses. This is why XML can be so useful as a data format - software that uses an XML dialect will still work after the dialect is extended.

      I'm not defending Microsoft here, but worries about incompatibilities are almost certainly unfounded because of the way XML works.

  3. plenty of time by CausticPuppy · · Score: 5, Funny

    This feature will be included in Longhorn.

    Don't panic. This gives the OSS community a couple of years to respond. Besides, this feature probably won't make it into the final release of Longhorn anyway.

    --
    -CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
  4. I'm sure they won't jack up the spec by sdriver · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm sure they will add stuff that makes sense as well!

  5. As it should be. by TheBrownShow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...while RSS is a reliable standard for updating information in message form, it currently has no logical way to organize that information in a way that could help subscribers keep track of what is being fed to them.

    Which is exactly the way it SHOULD be done. Keep the management of the data seperate from the transmission of the data. Leave content management up to the APPLICATION.

    1. Re:As it should be. by TheBrownShow · · Score: 5, Informative

      A sensible ordering/dating system would make RSS a great deal more powerful, and a great deal more sensible.

      There already IS a dating sytem in RSS, see the optional channel elements "pubDate" and "lastBuildDate" in the RSS 2.0 Spec at http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss

      Oh god. This was rated 5?
      Now that's not very nice at all, at least I did my homework :-P

  6. Other RSS uses by nizcolas · · Score: 3, Funny

    From the article, The people at Microsoft noticed something that I had seen, only peripherally--that there were applications of RSS that aren't about news. Like podcasting? Also, who thinks Microsoft's extension of RSS may be the attempted return of push technology?

    --
    If you get an error, type "OVERRIDE" or "SECURITY OVERRIDE" and then try the optimize command again.
  7. By keeping track of what's being fed by kwilliamyoungatl · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can add DRM and other "features". Uggh.

  8. What will they really do? by ravenspear · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hope by "extend the standard" they don't mean "basterdize it and then break compatibility with all non-M$ versions" because we've all seen that before.

    1. Re:What will they really do? by DaHat · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm getting my facts from an interview video on Channel 9 where they sit down and talk with the team who built this system, as well as a demonstration of the system.

      You are right though, the Creative Commons is not a software license, it is a license for documents, including specifications. The original RSS specs were published under the CC, and in keeping in line with that because of their talks with the original developers of RSS.

      --
      Help Brendan pay off his student loans
  9. Re:Here we go again... by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 3, Funny

    Apparently it's going to be called SSS - Sorta Simple Syndication.

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    -1 Uncomfortable Truth
  10. Microsoft "Breaks" RSS by gbulmash · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Whenever Microsoft "extends" a standard, they always seem to extend it in ways so use of their extensions makes your page/script/applet inoperable with competing products that support the internationally approved standard. So should the title of this article actually be "Microsoft Breaks RSS"?

    - Greg

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    Start a happiness pandemic
    1. Re:Microsoft "Breaks" RSS by Utopia · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The RSS standard itself allows for extensions.
      The extensions themselves can be standardized.

      Microsoft is not breaking the standard.




  11. Innovation by repetty · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's only reasonable to expect innovation like this from the company that invented the Internet.

    Microsoft kicks ass!

  12. Seen this before by Bronz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1. Pick an up and coming technology that _you_ didn't see coming (and that your products don't support at all).

    2. Point out a fault in it. Promise to *fix* it by changing the standard so the improved version is only compatible with your software.

    3. Get people to believe the technology isn't ready until you have a chance to support it.

    4. Sell it as a new idea and profit.

    Look, I made an ordered list without extending /.

  13. Discussion and Demos from the team on Channel9 by km790816 · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=8053 3

    Amazingly good discussion and demos!

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    A speech...
  14. Re:Safari's RSS? How about Firefox's by learn+fast · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, Safari's had it since 2004-07-28 from which the Firefox team may have gotten the idea in the first place.

  15. Embrace, Extend, Patent by Albanach · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Is't microsoft as usual...
    1. Embrace
    2. Extend
    3. Patent
    4. Profit

    Their Office 2k3 XML format's 'may' have patents prohibiting their use in open source applications. Who's to bet the new RSS 'standard' will similarly be patented.

  16. Re:Here we go again... by LittleGuernica · · Score: 3, Funny

    Are YOU sure it's not "$$$"?

  17. Maybe if they froze Longhorn's feature set by Deagol · · Score: 3, Interesting
    they'd get the damned thing released.

    How many features were promised then dropped in Win2003 and Longhorn to get them released? Why the hell do they keep adding features?

    At this rate we'll get Longhorn Lite in 2006, Longhorn Complete in 2007, and Longhorn As It Was Really Promised Ten Years Ago in 2012.

    MS just needs to get over themselves and get a product out the door with the *current* set of features they promised.

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    Method of processing duck feet
    1. Re:Maybe if they froze Longhorn's feature set by hacker · · Score: 3, Interesting
      "At this rate we'll get Longhorn Lite in 2006, Longhorn Complete in 2007, and Longhorn As It Was Really Promised Ten Years Ago in 2012.

      MS just needs to get over themselves and get a product out the door with the *current* set of features they promised."

      Have you ever considered that this might just be a marketing ruse by Microsoft to get their competitors (Apple, the OSS community, etc.) to slow down on focusing their efforts, because "..well, we have a couple of years before Longhorn is released, whats the rush?"

      Seriously, what if they released Longhorn in December of this year, with all of the features they've previously claimed were pulled from it? (WinFS, podcasting, IE7, etc.)

      This is a very VERY common marketing move, and I'm surprised nobody has seen through it yet. You publically announce that your product is being delayed, so your competitors relax a bit, then you announce some key feature of your product was dropped, etc. and your competition smirks and goes out and celebrates... and then you release the full product, WITH the "dropped" features on Monday.

      Your competition crumbles and cries in the corner.

  18. Text should be enough for everybody... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.popsci.com/popsci/how2

    "5 Things You Didn't Know You Could Track with RSS

    Package deliveries

    New to RSS? Get a free account with Web-based RSS reader Bloglines (bloglines.com). In addition to tracking headlines from your favorite sites, you can now receive an RSS feed on packages from UPS, FedEx or the USPS-just enter the tracking number, and the feed will update at each stage of the delivery.

    Library books

    Avoid late fees and fruitless trips to the library with ELF (libraryelf.com), which generates a feed to inform you when books you've requested are available at your local branch (including a link to operating hours) and when your checked-out books are almost due.

    Local weather

    RSSWeather (rssweather.com) sends updates on current and forecasted weather conditions for your city. You can even customize the feed to notify you only when certain changes occur (temperature, forecast, etc.).

    TV listings

    Need to know when you can next catch Deadwood on HBO? Bootleg RSS (ktyp.com/rss/tv) provides channel-specific feeds (by time zone) with the day's programming for dozens of cable networks, including CNN, the Discovery Channel and ESPN.

    Yourself

    Find out when your company, favorite sports team or even your name is mentioned just about anywhere on the Web with PubSub (pubsub.com). The site trawls more than nine million news and blog sites and lets you create an RSS feed that alerts you when your specified keywords appear.

  19. SSSSLOLSUCKTOWN by lullabud · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sorta Simple Syndication Supporting Lengthy Ordered Lists So Users Can Keep Track Of What's New.

  20. RSS Viruses by lullabud · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That get updates every hour on new ways to exploit your system.

  21. 12 step program. by lullabud · · Score: 3, Funny

    1) Embrace
    2) Extend
    3) Delay release until after Longhorn.
    4) PROFIT!!
    5) Patch Critical Security Flaws.
    6) Patch Critical Security Flaws.
    7) Patch Critical Security Flaws.
    8) Patch Critical Security Flaws.
    9) Patch Critical Security Flaws.
    10) Patch Critical Security Flaws.
    11) Patch Critical Security Flaws.
    12) Patch Critical Security Flaws.

  22. Just like Krb5 by jlrobins_uncc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Which they released a 'legal', but value-added-only-for-microsoft extension, whose documentation was explicitly licensed as to prevent you from making an open-source interoperable equivalent.

    AFAIR, anyway. Does SambaNG or whatever truly smell like an AD with the MS-KRB5 authorization field properly filled-in?

  23. Winer's perspective by Jesse_132 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Dave made a post earlier today here

  24. A summary of Slashdot comments: by ArmpitMan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Group 1: MORE LIKE EMBRACE AND BSOD AM I RITE?
    Group 2: RSS is XML and therefore works using magic! It's not like there were eight thousand different conflicting RSS standards before!
    A Vanishingly Small Number Of Voices Of Fucking Reason: You know, they released the spec for extensions under a ShareAlike Creative Commons license. They might as well have done it under the god-damned GPL. This is PROGRESS, you imbeciles.

  25. Opera's RSS... by hkmwbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Opera had RSS in a 7.5 beta in April 2004. 7.5 final with RSS was released in May 2004.

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    Clever signature text goes here.