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BBC Open Source launched

Elphin writes "The BBC today launched their BBC Open Source website, providing a home for projects such as their video codec dirac , TV-Anytime Java API and Kamaelia network testbed."

181 comments

  1. Dirac? by darth_MALL · · Score: 0, Funny

    BBC should have called it Dalek!

    1. Re:Dirac? by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 1

      "BBC should have called it Dalek!"

      Nope. Daleks are fascists. They wouldn't be suitable for a collaborative effort. They'd operate like Microsoft's mantra, but instead of "embrace," it would be "exterminate and extend."

      The Cybermen would be the better thing to reference, since they are the nightmare parable for socialism/communism. Calling the project "Mondas" (after the Cyber race's home planet, the twin planet of Earth, sorta like the Annunaki myths) would be more appropriate.

      Granted, it would be much better to call a BBC project "Pharaos" or "Logopolis" if referencing the Doctor Who mythos for an open source project.

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    2. Re:Dirac? by FusionDragon2099 · · Score: 1

      They'd operate like Microsoft's mantra, but instead of "embrace," it would be "exterminate and extend."

      Don't you mean, "embrace, extend, and EX-TER-MIN-ATE!"?

    3. Re:Dirac? by wheany · · Score: 1
    4. Re:Dirac? by sinserve · · Score: 1

      Is that real or is that photoshop? why do they look like southern house-wives?

      FUCK

    5. Re:Dirac? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Beta (ie file format frozen) by the end of 2005. It's already useable, just very alpha-quality...

    6. Re:Dirac? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      It doesn't look like much has happened.. they're still talking about 'preliminary support for media player' which is what that had this time last year.

      It looks like they're having trouble getting it to run fast enough to be usable - the one I tried was unusably slow on an amd64... it isn't going to replace wmv any time soon on their current performance.

      It *does* look beautiful though. Very few artefacts.

    7. Re:Dirac? by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      I wonder when it'll be usable. Sure hope it's soon.

      According to the Dirac FAQ they're aiming to get it into beta by the end of 2005.

  2. Wow by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Good Lord, there's enough stuff here to create a complete, high quality TIVO system with full network/P2P support! If this is any indication, BBC is taking the concept of Internet broadcasting *very* seriously.

    A question for those who are in the know: How is Dirac's performance these days? i.e. Does anyone have any good comparisons to MPEG4 compression ratios, encoding times, etc.?

    1. Re:Wow by Trigun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I certainly hope that they are taking it seriously. I'd love to be able to subscribe to their programs, instead of waiting to have them come out on Bittorrent.

      Any BBC'ers out there have some good series suggestions? I've got Little Britain, and the new Doctor Who. What else should I be looking for?

    2. Re:Wow by joebutton · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Any BBC'ers out there have some good series suggestions? I've got Little Britain, and the new Doctor Who. What else should I be looking for?

      The League of Gentlemen, particularly the first series.

    3. Re:Wow by antonymous · · Score: 1

      If this is any indication, BBC is taking the concept of Internet broadcasting *very* seriously.

      Now if only we could get the same brains behind the BBC to take over the operations of another possibly doomed TV/tech venture, maybe something good like this could happen in my own backyard!

    4. Re:Wow by ettlz · · Score: 1
      Good Lord, there's enough stuff here to create a complete, high quality TIVO system with full network/P2P support! If this is any indication, BBC is taking the concept of Internet broadcasting *very* seriously.

      I think they are. They might also be thinking of putting Dirac into digital set-top boxes to increase capacity or quality when HDTV hits the UK.

    5. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Red Dwarf and Blackadder are classics

      Casanova and Hustle are probably some of the best stuff BBC has done recently.

    6. Re:Wow by I+confirm+I'm+not+a · · Score: 1

      The League of Gentlemen, particularly the first series.

      IMHO, much better than Little Britain. Not that LB's less than excellent, you understand, just the LoG is even better.

      As to further suggestions, it's not BBC (it's Channel 4, which often gives the Beeb a run for its money) but "Shameless" is excellent. I doubt I could descibe it without offending entire demographics, so I'll leave it to you all to Google ;-)

      --
      This is where the serious fun begins.
    7. Re:Wow by Air-conditioned+cowh · · Score: 1

      You can find out more about it's performance and how it compares to other codecs from this lecture.

      It is in Ogg/Theora format and should be viewable with RealPlayer 10+, VLC, or Flumotion.

    8. Re:Wow by wo1verin3 · · Score: 1

      I'd subscribe to things like Doctor Who in a second... I'm still a little bitter that I missed one episode of the new season.

    9. Re:Wow by mfloy · · Score: 1

      We just need to hope that people realize the power of all this software BBC is releasing and it doesn't just fade into oblivion and go unused.

    10. Re:Wow by Trigun · · Score: 0

      Which episode did you miss? I have them all.

    11. Re:Wow by 02bunced · · Score: 1

      I doubt it will if it makes a success - if you look at other things like Listen Again, Podcasting or Freeview, they will do a lot of advertising over it to make sure people know what benefits it provides.

      --
      "The Chinese use two brush strokes to write the word 'crisis.' One stands for danger; the other for opportunity
    12. Re:Wow by toggles · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Hustle? come on, the chick wasn't bad to look at, but good? try contrived.

    13. Re:Wow by JazzCrazed · · Score: 3, Informative

      Its performance these days doesn't seem very encouraging, though it's early in development. It has some hefty competition, though - such as the Snow codec, which also uses wavelets for its compression algorithms.

      Overall, the promise of wavelet codecs is high, but their quality to compression ratio vs. traditional MPEG-4 solutions (like XviD and H.264), and the convenience of encodes (Dirac lacks very many useful encoding tools outside of command line) at present leaves much to be desired.

    14. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      link?

    15. Re:Wow by captnswing · · Score: 1

      hey, you mind publishing that link?
      cheers!

    16. Re:Wow by jaypaulw · · Score: 0

      Watch out for I'm Alan Partridge

    17. Re:Wow by cheesybagel · · Score: 2, Interesting
      100 Greatest British Television Programmes

      Of those in the list, I can recommend: Yes Minister; I, Claudius; Blackadder.

    18. Re:Wow by Zaiff+Urgulbunger · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also from Channel 4 was Spaced, which if you'd probably like if you enjoyed "Shawn of the Dead".

    19. Re:Wow by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If this is any indication, BBC is taking the concept of Internet broadcasting *very* seriously. I'm not very suprised about this. Great Britain is after all the country that managed a 40% switch to digital TV in only 3 years and are used as a classical example by now. Plus, the European Union intends to do a full switchover to digital for all media by 2012 and God forbid the Brits would be left behind. :)

      --
      i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
    20. Re:Wow by maharg · · Score: 1

      Monkey Dust

      where have you *really* been, clive ?

      --

      $ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
      @(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
    21. Re:Wow by Black.Shuck · · Score: 1

      Have I Got News For You is topical comedy quiz show. It really is a classic, although original presenter Angus Deaton has not been hosting it since his, ahem, allegations. They have a guest presenter for each show, now.

      The show stars Paul Merton and Ian Hislop on either side of the two-team format, and each week the teams have their own guest contender (oftentimes the subject of a roasting.)

      Hilarity usually ensues.

    22. Re:Wow by Black.Shuck · · Score: 1

      Oops, forgot the Wiki-link:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Have_I_Got_News_For_Y ou

      Try not to read the spoilers, though. ;)

    23. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It did go downhill towards the end, but the first half of the series was good.

      I only said it was some of the best the BBC had done recently ... take that as you will ;)

    24. Re:Wow by CodeArtisan · · Score: 1

      "Shameless" also just finished a run on BBC America, for those who want to have missed it on two continents !

    25. Re:Wow by natrius · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There was a talk on Dirac at GUADEC, which you can watch at the bottom of this page. (Ogg Theora video)

    26. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I cannot believe we've got this far and none of you froods has mentioned The Guide - originally a BBC radio series (which failed to suck much more than the TV series, which failed to suck far more than the film - of course)

      What? I don't understand! Where's the tea?

    27. Re: Wow by gidds · · Score: 1
      All heartily seconded. For comedy series, I'd also mention Red Dwarf, The Day Today and its successor Brass Eye. Going back a bit, everyone knows Monty Python and Fawlty Towers but The Fall And Rise of Reginald Perrin is worth a quick look, and Not the Nine O'Clock News had some excellent bits. I have a soft spot for The High Life and Big Train. And Father Ted is good enough to be honorary BBC :)

      For drama, I think Neverwhere deserves far more recognition.

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    28. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'up to my nuts in a king charles spaniel'

    29. Re:Wow by Bob+Crabtree · · Score: 1

      I know it's impolite to blow your own trumpet (stop sniggering at the back), but people may be interested in the news report about Dirac that I wrote for DVdoctor.net after attending a BBC R&D open day in early June: http://www.dvdoctor.net/content/news/news.php?dXJs X3Jldmlld19JRD0xMjc2 From this you'll probably guess that I was impressed with the quality of the footage. It was at least as good as MPEG-2 and WM9, and usable from a quarter of normal resolution right up to high-definition. Little was said on the day about encoding times but my understanding is that the project's aim is to try to ensure not just good quality but acceptable encoding times - but remember this is still only Alpha code. Oh, and there's further info in the related support forum thread here (he said, blowing again): http://forums.dvdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=33961

    30. Re:Wow by Aussie · · Score: 1

      Doesn't seem quite right, where is Minder ?

    31. Re:Wow by I+confirm+I'm+not+a · · Score: 1

      Also from Channel 4 was Spaced...

      Can't argue with Spaced - superb comedy. Simon Pegg from Spaced, Shaun of the Dead was also in "Hippies", another very funny comedy (from the BBC? I can't remember - might be C4 also).

      --
      This is where the serious fun begins.
    32. Re:Wow by It'sYerMam · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately BBC will presumably not cover ITV, Granada, Channel 5 et al. Nonetheless, This move will probably spark of similar efforts from the other channels.

      --
      im in ur .sig, writin ur memes.
    33. Re: Wow by It'sYerMam · · Score: 1

      My particular excitement as a teenager will be the ability to watch shows which aired years ago. I'd love to be able to grab the entirety of Python, Day Today, NNON and so on. Also the Vicar of Dibley, if that was on the Beeb, although I've seen a higher amount of that.

      --
      im in ur .sig, writin ur memes.
    34. Re:Wow by Zaiff+Urgulbunger · · Score: 1

      And Simon Pegg was also in Big Train.... although I rather think that was on C4 too!

    35. Re:Wow by JazzCrazed · · Score: 1

      Interesting... Though I think it's important to frame the quality in its ratio to file size. Most any modern codec nowadays can equal MPEG-2 at DVD quality (ranging anywhere from 4-10mbps) and bear most any resolution up to the high heavens - if you give it enough bitrate to work with and don't care for file size.

    36. Re:Wow by DuncMan · · Score: 1

      This form the same country with a population which is still obstinately using imperial units around three decades after the metric units were introduced...

  3. Smart move by mfloy · · Score: 1

    I'm glad to see them doing this. Not only are they smart to support OSS, but I have a feeling they are going to get a leg up on their competion by getting excellent help and feedback from the OSS community. It seems like a win-win.

    1. Re:Smart move by Trigun · · Score: 1

      They will if someone else does this first. They could pass import laws preventing the subscription for foreign signals, or they can innovate and beat everyone else to the gate. I'm glad that they went for option #2.

    2. Re:Smart move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They are not the government, the motives and objectives of the BBC are laid out in a royal charter that is approved by the secretary of state for culture. What they aim to do is approved by government, but the government does not run them, that's an important difference. BBC news is the best in the UK and arguably the least biased, they were highly critical of Iraq.

      And yes they do have competition, the BBC has created an enormous number of new channels over the last 5 years to keep up with the growing number of cable, satellite and digital terestrial channels.

  4. Three cheers! by millennial · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I applaud the degree to which the BBC is embracing the open-source model. I just wish that some American groups would do the same.

    A couple questions, though. What inspired the British Broadcasting Corporation to suddenly leap into the software programming foray? Are they hoping to build some sort of new service out of all of this, or is it just going to end up as a bunch of disconnected apps?

    --
    I am scientifically inaccurate.
    1. Re:Three cheers! by keesh · · Score: 1

      Suddenly? Uh, not really. They've been a fairly serious software house for a long time, but until recently nearly all of their work has been internal-only.

      It's hardly unique... Remember, there are more programmers working on in-house projects than on commercial software.

    2. Re:Three cheers! by northcat · · Score: 0, Troll

      You're just an American who's pissed that a non-American organisation is doing this. Most of the other people making negative comments here are too.

    3. Re:Three cheers! by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What inspired the British Broadcasting Corporation to suddenly leap into the software programming foray? Are they hoping to build some sort of new service out of all of this, or is it just going to end up as a bunch of disconnected apps?

      Q: What inspired Bell Labs to create Multics/Unix?
      A: Because they needed it.

      BBC has been pushing more and more toward internet-based content. While they've been struggling with legal issues, it is becoming more and more clear that they are extremely serious about this and not just blowing smoke up everyone's hind quarters.

      Put this stuff together:

      1. A highly competitive streaming video codec.
      2. A TV Listings lookup API.
      3. A distributed/P2P sharing API.

      While these could go together into a few different gizmos, it seems that they are all targetting the concept of showing television over the internet. Oh, that will be a happy day. I might even pay the British TV Tax just to get Dr. Who! ;-)

    4. Re:Three cheers! by ettlz · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What inspired the British Broadcasting Corporation to suddenly leap into the software programming foray? Are they hoping to build some sort of new service out of all of this, or is it just going to end up as a bunch of disconnected apps?

      Hopefully, the BBC will be able to forge some open standards through this approach. In the past, BBC developments have shaped (or at least steered) the adoption of technology in the UK, and I think Open Source is probably the most compatible with their remit as a public service provider.

      It appears that broadcasting today is driven by information technology --- and this means software. The two are inextricably linked. As the BBC is funded by the public (rightly or wrongly), it is good that it should release as much IP related to its technology back to a public domain, and not rely on proprietary technology (hence Dirac). I don't want my license fee going to Microsoft or Real, I paid the BBC!

    5. Re:Three cheers! by temojen · · Score: 1
      What inspired the British Broadcasting Corporation to suddenly leap into the software programming foray?

      They needed the software. Noone else was making it the way they wanted.

      Same reason so many people got involved in the Apache project. Actually a lot of Open-Source projects come about this way.

    6. Re:Three cheers! by millennial · · Score: 1

      Funny; last I checked, "I applaud the degree to which the BBC is embracing the open-source model" is a positive comment... and no, I'm not pissed that a non-American organization is doing this. I don't care who does it.

      --
      I am scientifically inaccurate.
    7. Re:Three cheers! by millennial · · Score: 1

      A lot of my own personal projects came about that way - for example, a program to quickly scan a disk for large files, a command-line program that resolves an IP to a domain name, etc. It makes sense, really - if nobody else is doing it, or it isn't cheap/free, do it yourself!

      --
      I am scientifically inaccurate.
    8. Re:Three cheers! by simon_clarkstone · · Score: 3, Informative
      "What inspired the British Broadcasting Corporation to suddenly leap into the software programming foray?"
      You do know that this is the same BBC that released the BBC Microcomputer, right? Anyway:
      • the Apache Modules are "related to the way pages are built on bbc.co.uk",
      • Dirac is video codec,
      • TV-Anywhere is "an open standard for metadata describing TV and radio programmes",
      • Media Dispatch is for transferring huge MPEGs,
      • MXF File Test Engine can perform scripted tests on MXF files (a type of media file), and
      • Video Shot Change Detector is exactly what it says on the tin.
      (The rest of the stuff is simple large-corparation-network-type tools.) The BBC are exactly the sort of people to do this. Anyway, as a publicly-funded broadcaster, they should be developing (and open-sourcing) most of this sort of thing, for broadcasting over the net and suchlike.
      --

      C:\>spell -b slashdot_submission.txt
      Bad command or file name.
    9. Re:Three cheers! by Uber+Banker · · Score: 1

      What inspired the British Broadcasting Corporation to suddenly leap into the software programming foray?

      Check out the page in TFS:
      Apache (BBC have a large online news presence, they have seen the need to adapt the software)
      Media Lounge (experimenting with multimedia)
      TV Anytime (PVR stuff)

      Broadcasting doesn't necessarily mean sticking to radio signal, the change to digital demonstrated further diversification of media delivery (essentially broadcasting), as does their online presence: online video news bulletins, program snapshots, or entire programs.

      My favourite innovation that I've heard the BBC working on is Dirac. The streaming video codecs (inc. variants) require royalities to be paid for various aspects of their use depending on the one you use, be that encoding or broadcast (Real and Microsoft pick up a nice royalty tab), the 'open source' xVid is on shaky ground for use by the BBC as it uses MPEG-4 routines which are protected, a large corporation could get into big legal questions for using it. So they're developing Dirac, a codec for streaming and static video content, completely different from the MPEG school (simply put, MPEG uses blocks, hence the squares when looking at low quality recordings, while Dirac uses wavelets). Dirac also promises great encoding abilities - 2 money savers from developing software (royalites, bandwidth). Releasing it Open Source allows more media publishers to use it, meaning its more likely to be pre/easily installed on/in PCs/media players and not a waste of money (it is being developed with the aim to save money, not diverge the BBC into a software monopoly).

      As long as it stays focussed into things like this, developed in order to save money, I'm pretty happy. The FAQ states the point of releasing Open Source isn't an automatic decision, it will only be done where there aren't obvious profit opportunities.

      Apogies for poor editing, off out now, was in a hurry.

    10. Re:Three cheers! by Anonymous+Writer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What inspired the British Broadcasting Corporation to suddenly leap into the software programming foray?

      I've personally thought that software should be thought of more as a broadcast medium rather than a commodity. The very nature of computers, all the way to the processor level, is to copy. A business model for applying software should take advantage of that rather than hinder it. Allowing people to copy software costs nothing in comparison to copying physical goods, and allowing it to be distributed freely can reach and benefit a wider user base or audience, especially since the advent of the internet. Taking that into account, a free-to-air advertising revenue business model may be better suited for software rather than a per-seat or volume licensing business model. I was wondering if any major free broadcast media outlets would eventually see the similarities with the internet and their respective broadcast mediums, and apparently the BBC not only sees this but seem to be taking it as far as they can through open-source.

    11. Re:Three cheers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously never had a BBC Model B. All the power of BASIC , in Colour!!!!
      Happy days.

    12. Re:Three cheers! by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 1

      "A couple questions, though. What inspired the British Broadcasting Corporation to suddenly leap into the software programming foray?"

      Uhm, they have a long historical association with computers. Look at the BBC Micro. Of course, it wasn't marketed here in the States.

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    13. Re:Three cheers! by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 1

      "Oh, that will be a happy day. I might even pay the British TV Tax just to get Dr. Who! ;-)"

      As an American, I would like to support the new Doctor Who show financially, especially since apparently all the American broadcasters/cable stations have passed on it, and of course, I've already viewed the entire first season (Season 27, to us old school fans) via the good ol' Torrents. If it can record that the money is coming from an American, I would prefer that approach than importing the Region 2 DVDs since that will only give a false sales figure for the UK and will not properly gauge interest in the show from the States. That and importing Region 2 DVDs violates the EULAs.

      Granted, my Philips DVP-642 DVD player can play Region 2 DVDs as well as burnt CDs and burnt DVD +/-R discs that are encoded in Divx 3.0/5.0 and Xvid. The store stickers touts it as doing traditional MPEG4 as well, but I haven't tried it (especially not H.264) yet in that regard. $70 at Target. $59 at Best Buy if you can actually find one in stock at the store.

      As for the SciFi Network and not picking up Doctor Who, there was the entire story/thread two days ago about SciFi's success with "cheap" scifi movies. That plays into the equation. Of course, in truth, BBC Worldwide was probably demanding too much of an "American surcharge" on the televising rights too, from what has been reported online from behind-the-scenes.

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    14. Re:Three cheers! by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 1

      "In the past, BBC developments have shaped (or at least steered) the adoption of technology in the UK"

      You mean like how the majority of Europe uses PAL for analog television broadcasts? :)

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    15. Re:Three cheers! by Zaiff+Urgulbunger · · Score: 1

      In the past, BBC developments have shaped (or at least steered) the adoption of technology in the UK

      Yeah, so I guess they owe us all big time for that! ;)

    16. Re:Three cheers! by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Dont forget teletext!

      --
      bickerdyke
    17. Re:Three cheers! by ettlz · · Score: 1
      Yeah, so I guess they owe us all big time for that! ;) [freeuk.com]

      Well I had an Amstrad CPC-464, not one of those DAMN DIRTY ACORNS.

    18. Re:Three cheers! by M1FCJ · · Score: 1
      IMHO the whole plot is for claiming TV tax on PCs. I don't own a PC and I won't pay 120 quid a year to them and it annoys them.

      On the other hand, I would pay for Radio 4 but at least that's for free (for now).

    19. Re:Three cheers! by M1FCJ · · Score: 1
      Fuck fuck fuck! I do own PCs, I don't have a bloody TV!

      That's what the preview button is for. Arrrgh!

    20. Re:Three cheers! by rich_r · · Score: 2, Funny
      I might even pay the British TV Tax just to get Dr. Who!

      Well, your time has come! I'm two months behind, so I'll be happy to pass your cash on...

      ;)

    21. Re:Three cheers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have a look at Preview Three.

    22. Re:Three cheers! by rsynnott · · Score: 1

      Actually, you used to have to pay for radio, you don't anymore.

      --
      Me (Blog)
  5. Basically by Lifewish · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They're pissed off at having to pay ripoff prices to the people (such as Microsoft and Real) whose audio codecs they use, and they're sure as hell not keen to start paying licensing fees for video codecs as well.

    Additionally, they think they can get better performance out of Dirac than is being got out of current codecs, which will save them bandwidth.

    --
    For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
  6. Re:The same BBC... by CyricZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think it is responsible of them to not refer to the perpetrators as "terrorists". These days "terrorist" is nothing more than a buzzword used by those politicians and businesspeople who participate in deceit and real-world trollery.

    But in any case, I do respect the BBC's willingness to contribute back to society. They actively strive to promote the deployment of knowledge, rather than try to restrict and limit its dispersal. But that is most likely because their main goal is not profit. Maximizing profit will always be against what is best for society, as the externalities are not taken into account.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
  7. BEAN!!! by nexxuz · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Now I can watch Mr. Bean ANYTIME I want!!!

    --
    I love random hex numbers! Just like this one, 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0.
    1. Re:BEAN!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you can't. Mr Bean was produced for ITV.

    2. Re:BEAN!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mr Bean was produced by ITV, not the BBC.

  8. Re:The same BBC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, I never knew any idiot could have a blog!
    No wait, I did.

  9. Re:licensing by Uber+Banker · · Score: 1

    licensing...at least they didn't introduce a new proprietary license.

    But they almost changed it! See the FAQ here.

  10. Apache Modules too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Looks like they have also released the BBC 'programming language'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/opensource/projects/apache/

    Seems like extensions to mod_include to add more logic.

    Good Stuff

  11. While doing some very simple math seems fun... by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

    I look at http://www.bbc.co.uk/opensource/projects/apache/
    and I'm thinking, wow, you could really implement some stupid stuff with that.
    Some of the more asinine web templating tools available today would look like Knuth's TAoCP in comparison to the potential train wrecks.
    Which is not to say that such little gadgets don't have their time and place; my point is that somebody will always take them out of context.

    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  12. Makes me proud to pay my TV licence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The Beeb just continue to impress me with initiatives like this - good on them!

    1. Re:Makes me proud to pay my TV licence by towaz · · Score: 1

      I have to admit, 5 or so years ago I thought the tv licence was worthless, Now I don't mind at all.

      but.. maybe this is the bbc making a step towards a computer licence?

      Tv content over internet would certainly blur the lines; enough for the goverment to warrant it anyway.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
    2. Re:Makes me proud to pay my TV licence by prjames · · Score: 1

      It's almost like I own a bit of this, hey hang on I do.
      But I'll let you borrow it anyhows, 'cos this is licence money well invested for once.

  13. Mongols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We rule world again soon, insensitive clod!

  14. I envy you english people... by ratta · · Score: 1

    here, in italy, i have to pay for our very low quality public television (more berlusconi's than public), and nothing like this is happening. They just offer a few WMV/Real videos on their website, wow. :)

    --
    Wondering why i am doing so strange posts? I am trying to get a "+5,Flamebait" or "-1,Insightful" rating.
  15. Re:The same BBC... by Trigun · · Score: 1

    Personally, I call them Disgruntled terran co-habitators, or Snuggle-umpkins. It makes them sound less fierce.

  16. Dear god... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm very greatful for their very generous contribution, but...

    What is that aweful color on their site!

    My eyes!

    1. Re:Dear god... by PReDiToR · · Score: 1

      I think it's #CC7700. Apparently Netscape call it dark orange, and SAS call it Frontier.

      HTH.

      --

      Do not meddle in the affairs of geeks for they are subtle and quick to anger
    2. Re:Dear god... by ssttoo · · Score: 1

      If you're wondering about those orange box borders, FF's Colorzilla extension says it's: #FFA500.

  17. Re:The same BBC... by Iriel · · Score: 1

    I have this feeling that the word terrorist is going to be a revisit on the dreaded 'communist' of yore actually. It's an entirely social tool to grant the recipient with stigma. But to the topic at hand, I think something that also gives the BBC the objectivity to give back and care not for story bias as much as profit news networks is they know that the BBC is viewed/read/visited from all over the world. They've really extended beyond just the country in terms of their audience and it's kind of hard to not do something good with that when you're not in it for money.

    --
    Perfecting Discordia
    www.stevenvansickle.com
  18. Re:The same BBC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But that is most likely because their main goal is not profit. Maximizing profit will always be against what is best for society, as the externalities are not taken into account. ...

    Erm, their main goal is making sure they maximise the amount of licence fee revenue they get (going by how they behaved during the recent review) - and that includes penalising the poorest in society.

  19. My hopes are dashed by DragonHawk · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just some stupid software? Damn! I was hoping to find some episodes of the new Doctor Who for download... ;-)

    --

    dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
    I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
  20. Re:The same BBC... by James_G · · Score: 4, Informative
    It's not a question of offending anyone. Read about it here

    The BBC's guidelines state that its credibility is undermined by the "careless use of words which carry emotional or value judgments".

    I agree with this point of view. "Bombers" is an accurate way to describe them. They may also be "terrorists", but this does carry an emotional implication as well. It's a little quirky, but I can see the point of simply reporting events rather than making judgements. It's something the media in general seriously lacks.

  21. Dirac/Theora? by codergeek42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How well does BBC's Dirac codec relate to Theora?

    1. Re:Dirac/Theora? by harryk · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can perform a simple test using VLC (http://www.videolan.org/ ... it already has support for both Theora and Dirac transcoding. I don't have a fast enough processor to actively test. harryk

      --
      think before you write, it'll save me moderator points.
    2. Re:Dirac/Theora? by Petrushka · · Score: 2, Informative

      According to the Dirac FAQ they can't do streaming yet, but they've already got better compression "performance" than Theora (not clear whether that means better compression speed or size).

    3. Re:Dirac/Theora? by Salsaman · · Score: 1

      You can also try encoding to both formats using the LiVES video editor http://lives.sf.net./

    4. Re:Dirac/Theora? by evilviper · · Score: 1
      How well does BBC's Dirac codec relate to Theora?

      No doubt Dirac is far better. VP3 is quite old now, and Theora hasn't made any significant improvements over VP3.

      I think the horse to cheer for is snow. It's developing quite nicely, unlike both Dirac and Theora, which seem to be dragging on very slowly.

      The whole idea of Theora is a poor one. We had an open source VP3 codec in 2001, and instead of promoting it, adding 2-pass support, etc., they spent the past several years re-writing it, and now, when the codec is looking old, they still aren't ready to release the new one, with currently no real advantages over the old one... Xiph clearly missed the boat on Theora. I'd rather use MPEG-1 at this point (also patent-free).

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  22. The beeb made my first computer by grahamsz · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well the didn't actually make it but they made it happen
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Micro

    I have fond memories of my Model B

    1. Re:The beeb made my first computer by Heggsy · · Score: 1

      I still have one. :o) I use it for playing games when I'm feeling retro.

    2. Re:The beeb made my first computer by grahamsz · · Score: 1

      My parents still have theirs.

      We opened it up sometime around '95 and fitted a harddisk, which oddly enough shows up as about 80 floppy disk drives.

      Cant beat some frogger or repton3.

  23. If only they would publicize.. by drspliff · · Score: 5, Informative

    If only they would publicize more of the open-source projects they've been doing in order to spur more development from people who would actually benifit from them.

    Take for example the Betsie perl script (which the BBC use extensively on their websites, it's an open-source cgi script which can be used to translate pages on-the-fly into a text-only mode. This has been very helpful for me and for a suprisingly large number of other web developers trying to tackle the issue of accessablity.

    If they keep on going in this direction with opening up more projects and providing more APIs for developers to use, then I can really see in maybe as short as 2 years down the line it could be actually be worthwile to pay for that damn TV license.

  24. Re:The same BBC... by joebutton · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    That won't refer to the London train bombers as "terrorists"?

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Anews.bbc.c o.uk+terrorist+OR+terrorists+london+july+2005

    returns "about 777" pages
  25. Open Source by loconet · · Score: 2, Funny

    So has Microsoft retracted their stand on Open Source being a a cancer? They can't possibly stick to that story, specially after so many organizations are seeing the benefits of Open Source. Will MS really and their fanboys ever learn?

    --
    [alk]
    1. Re:Open Source by DrCode · · Score: 1

      I'd guess that when MS sees all the organizations adapting open-source, it simply reinforces their claim that OSS is a 'cancer'.

  26. BBC's Motives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    While BBC's support of open source is to be applauded, we need to look with a bit of suspicion on their motivation.

    The BBC is funded by a tax that's mandated on all TV sets in the country and the collection and monitoring process is more than a little nasty--harassement and patrolling vans that can catalog not only that you or I are watching TV, but what we are watching.

    The Internet threatens this model. If you can stream video from somewhere else or play DVDs on your computer, what need do you have for a TV set and this infernal tax?

    Bureaucracies have as Goal #1 self-preservation. There are indications that BBC wants to stream video/audio, so it can use that as an excuse to tax all computers, or a least all Internet-capable computers. That would let them add to their gravy train of coerced payments. And it would also mean that they deploy the technology to pick up signals radiated by computers and to track Internet connections. They might use that technology to just collect payments, but a country less democratic could buy that same technology for other purposes.

    As the old adage goes, be careful about what you want. You may just get it along with something you don't want.

    --Mike Perry, Seattle

    1. Re:BBC's Motives by ettlz · · Score: 1

      Aren't there less tinfoil hat-ish ways to do this, like subscriber logins? Restrict to ranges of IPs from known service providers, and then increase the VAT on broadband internet subscriptions? In fact, using the Internet to sort out license subscriptions might require fewer strongarm tactics than currently employed by the TVLA. Someone not paid? Just block 'em. Can't do that with TV.

    2. Re:BBC's Motives by synthespian · · Score: 1

      The BBC is funded by a tax that's mandated on all TV sets in the country and the collection and monitoring process is more than a little nasty--harassement and patrolling vans that can catalog not only that you or I are watching TV, but what we are watching.

      Paranoia and/or breaches of privacy notwithstanding, if what you said is really true, I do think it's absolutely correct that a public television chooses the Open Source path. It makes perfect sense.
      So, IMHO, the tax is totally justified, it seems.

      --
      Main difference between the BSD license and the GPL license: one is from California and the other is from Massachusetts
    3. Re:BBC's Motives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      I've got to get me some of this magical technology to wirelessly detect computers and monitor internet connections.

      Detector vans are a myth and always have been. They have this thing called a list, which they use to work out who's paid their license and who hasn't.

    4. Re:BBC's Motives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The BBC is funded by a tax that's mandated on all TV sets in the country [...]

      You write that this is a bad thing. It's not a point of sale "tax". If you have equipment that can receive television or radio you need a TV license. And can we get away from this idea of "tax" with its negative associations. The license fee pays for top quality TV channels that are advert free. If you enjoy watching 42 minute programmes spread over an hour then may be it should be refered to as a commerical-viewing-interruption-tax, which frankly makes as much sense.

      ... and the collection and monitoring process is more than a little nasty--harassement and patrolling vans that can catalog not only that you or I are watching TV, but what we are watching.

      Why nasty? You own TV equipment, the law requires you to have a license. You don't - you're breaking the law. Frankly I'm glad this stuff exists to catch people that don't pay (meaning those that do either get charged more or get less programming). What's the problem? Murderers tracked by investigative police?

      As for everything else, keep the the tin foil hat on.

      As the old adage goes, be careful about what you want. You may just get it along with something you don't want.

      I'm not having a go at you personally but FFS this is typical /. nonsense. Organisations don't play the OSS game - boo, hiss. Organisations do place the OOS game - more potential boo, hiss. OSS may change along the way but this isn't a bad thing, is it.

      It's a tax, it's payment for content. Not everything can be free.

    5. Re:BBC's Motives by jimicus · · Score: 1

      There's some debate as to whether or not the "patrolling vans" ever existed. Certainly today, they don't seem to bother - they simply assume every household in the country has a TV, then start harrassing any households without a license.

    6. Re:BBC's Motives by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I live in the UK, and therefore pay a TV license. The last thing I watched on television was Doctor Who, and that ended ages ago. On the other hand, I am subscribed to the BBC national and regional RSS feeds. This in itself is worth the license fee. I get relatively impartial news on both a regional and national level, and I am more than happy to pay for it. The license fee works out at around 30p a day, which is hardly a lot - especially since I split it with my housemates, meaning it works out at less than the price of a daily paper.

      I would very much like to see some of the license fee go to this kind of thing. Streaming media is likely to be an even more important part of the communications infrastructure in the coming century than television was in the last one. This is something far too important to be privately owned.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:BBC's Motives by James+McGuigan · · Score: 1

      The BBC doesn't need a computer tax, even if people only rarely watch TV, the majority of people will still own a TV set (and thus need a £120/year licence). The fear is that government will scrap the licence fee.

      With the Iraq fiasco, and the BBC claims that the UK government "sexed up" the report with the 45 minute claim (they where wrong on a technicality, but correct in spirit), there has been alot of very close scrutiny on the BBC, its inner workings, what it is doing with taxpayer money and if it is still giving "value for money" etc, etc.

      The difference is that with media conglomerates, TV shows are an investment which they then try to sell at retail to the public for profit. They have carefully worked out their business model, and its profitable. They are afraid of anything new that will upset that business model, and disrupt their profit flows. They only want to change when they have worked out that the new method will be more profitable, and that they can be in control of the change.

      The BBC on the other hand gets its "investment" money direct from the public, and is now taking the view that as such, the public already owns everything it produces (its just a case of giving it to them). They are afraid of becoming obsolete and losing relevance to the public (at which point they will lose 99% of their funding). Thus the BBC is actually TRYING to embrace the revolution and work around the problems generated by those still kicking and screaming about the threat of losing control.

    8. Re:BBC's Motives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately you have no clue at all about anything you are talking about or the direction the world has moved over the last decade.

      It's a tax, it's payment for content. Not everything can be free.

      No one is asking it to be free. BBC want to set up a subscription site to deliver TV ? fine.

      BBC want to advertise ? Fine with me.

      Force me to pay a licence to view any content on the internet on the presumption that I might watch BBC content ? Go fuck yourself. I won't be paying period.

      There will always be some in society who need their little bottoms wiping and hand holding by the government to guide them through life, but please don't take your inferiority out on the rest of us who believe in a free market and fair play.

      It is highly subjective whether or not the BBC's content is actually any better than that of others. Let us assume for one insane moment that it is. It is does not give them the right to fund their activities through a mandetory media tithe.

      In the end the BBC will have to look elswhere for funding and people may as well start accepting that idea now and look forward to that time, instead of trying to cling onto this ancient notion of funding which should have been abolished along with the death penalty.

    9. Re:BBC's Motives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Makes ya proud to be british don't it =)

      I'm happy to pay a licence just to get an impartial view on things and no ad breaks.

      If TV companies could check my bank balance then i'd never have to watch an avert again ;-)

      G

    10. Re:BBC's Motives by k0llin · · Score: 1

      Certainly today, they don't seem to bother - they simply assume every household in the country has a TV, then start harrassing any households without a license.
      "Harrase" being the appropriate word.
      Every six months or so comes the letter informing me that I face a fine of up to £1,000 (at least, it was last time I read one of them), or the less common but more amusing house call. More amusing because I am more than happy to let the guy into the flat and have him look around to his heart's content searching for the non-existant TV. I almost feel bad watching the confusion and embarrasment spread across their face when they realise that I don't own one.

      Then they launch the "local crackdowns" featuring big posters saying '5 homes on Random Street do not own a TV license. TV detector vans are in this area.' I know that at least 1 of those homes doesn't need one, but I don't want to get in the way of a snappy slogan, especially when it is technically correct (just not the way that they want it to be).

    11. Re:BBC's Motives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seem to remeber a few years back that it was admitted that the vans couldn't really tell what you were watching. Then people decided that the vans couldn't tell if you were watching anything at all. TV detector vans became rather pointless after that.

  27. Oh? by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 1

    BBC has been pushing more and more toward internet-based content.

    Like their recent move to eliminate their "cult TV" website?

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
    1. Re:Oh? by Khuffie · · Score: 1

      Or maybe they've decided to redirect the resources they spent on maintaining the cult TV website into these projects?

    2. Re:Oh? by madhippy · · Score: 1

      I believe the BBC has been accused of anti-competitive practices surrounding some of their internet content - ie. if they produce a cult tv website, then it makes it very difficult for anyone else to produce one ...

  28. Re:The same BBC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, 777 pages! Google says it so. Ahh, the pain. Please. Google isn't always the answer. Just check the first few results. Most link to the very same article, and the word terrorist is mainly used in two occasion: In quotes or paraphrases of quotes, and to show the Anti-Terrorist Hotline, which is presumably not set up by the BBC.. d'oh!

  29. I wish there was more hand-holding regarding Dirac by synthespian · · Score: 1

    I know this will probably fall under "whining", but I wish there was more hand-holding in the Dirac documentation. Not that there isn't plenty, but I think they could fulfill a somewhat "educational" role there, too, in the sense of bringing people "up to speed", as it were, on the techniques involved.

    They do offer some pointers, but still, stuff like wavelets is not your everyday applied math, is it? (Maybe it is, in DSP, I wouldn't know).

    What do you think? Have you looked at the documentation? What's your estimate in terms of courses you have to take in order to contribute on Dirac? After Calculus and Linear Algebra, what else?

    --
    Main difference between the BSD license and the GPL license: one is from California and the other is from Massachusetts
  30. Nice to get some good news for a change by Dollyknot · · Score: 2, Interesting
    After the profoundly depressing news since last Thursday, it is nice to get some profoundly good news. The professionalism shown by the BeeB applied to Linux, it could lead to it getting the final polish it needs.

    Why doesn't the Beeb do a late night program with open source makers and shakers on the Beeb payroll telling us about themselves and getting people like Alan Cox to talk to us .

    This will encourage contributers.

    --
    It's called an elephant's trunk whereas it is in fact, an elephant's nose, a nose by any other name would smell as sweet
  31. Re:I wish there was more hand-holding regarding Di by Subrafta · · Score: 1
    We touched on wavelets in Numerical Analysis and Signal Processing, so those would be good places to start. I doubt there is a "Wavelets for Dummies" book out there.

    That said, this site has explainations and code: http://www.bearcave.com/misl/misl_tech/wavelets/

    --
    Vuja De: That sinking feeling that this is going to happen again. Often occurs in meetings with Product Managers.
  32. BBC Page? by hazzey · · Score: 2, Informative

    It seems a little wierd to call it a page dedicated to their opensource projects. All the DIRC one serves as is link to their sourceforge project. Not too exciting.

    Home page: http://dirac.sourceforge.net/
    Project page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dirac
    1. Re:BBC Page? by malverian · · Score: 1

      Yes, but it does provide one central listing of all the open source projects they began. I think that's its intended purpose.

      --
      You're just mad because the voices in your head talk to me.
  33. Terrorism & Red/Blue America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    I agree with this point of view. "Bombers" is an accurate way to describe them. They may also be "terrorists", but this does carry an emotional implication as well. It's a little quirky, but I can see the point of simply reporting events rather than making judgements. It's something the media in general seriously lacks.
    Actually, the most charitable thing you can say about this BBC policy is that those making it are simply ignorant of the facts. That's unlikely, but it is the nice thing to say. The real reason is that they "make nice" about terrorism in the hope that they won't be the ones getting killed.

    It's terrorism because its goal is to create terror pure and simple. The terrorist themselves make that very point. The means they use is irrelevant, which is why they're are not 'bombers.' Their targets aren't chosen because they have any military or economic value. They're chosen to maximize the number of ordinary, harmless citizens who get killed, creating a much larger number who are terrified into passivity or, like the BBC, into cooperating with their agenda. And in the long term, in the case of Islamists, they hope to 'convert' the UK to their rather coercive variety of Islam. Someday, they hope, you'll hear nothing but them on the BBC. And they may be right.

    One of the great cultural divides in Western democracies is between those who still retain a measure of courage or at least respect for those who are brave and those who're simply trying to muddle through life as affluently and comfortably as possible, avoiding all danger and discomfort. Emotional words like terrorist make them uncomfortable, because they suggest the need for decisive actions like helping Iraq become democratic. Risk terrifies them.

    A couple of summers ago, I came on someone tossing knives against a tree just a few feet from an extremely busy path in a Seattle park. Knowing someone had to make the weirdo stop, I asked a healthy man in his thirties to just stand by while I talked to the guy and perhaps get help if things got nasty. He fled in terror without saying a word. Since everyone else seemed to be a mother with small kids, I approached the weirdo alone with the suggestion he toss his knives someplace where he wasn't going to get someone hurt. When he refused and began to get angry, I backed off and told him I was calling the police. He started ranting nonsense and coming at me. Since he was bigger than I am and had at least three knives, it wasn't very pleasant. Fortunately, a Very Big Guy intercepted him and cooled him down. Later that guy told me he'd thought himself of talking to the knife thrower and decided to get involved only when I did. In dangerous situations, someone always has to act first.

    The guy who ran away is 'Blue America.' They listen to NPR or the BBC and think Pres. Bush, of all people, is a threat. They deplore words like terrorist, and are, quite frankly, cowards. The guy who helped me is part of "Red America." They listen to Fox News and talk show hosts like Rush Limbaugh. They call a terrorist a terrorist.

    One reason I love Tolkien is that he calls things by their real names. He doesn't not mince words about the terror the Black Riders bring or the horror that would be life under Sauron. His heros fight, they don't "nuiance."

    --Mike Perry, Seattle, Untangling Tolkien

    1. Re:Terrorism & Red/Blue America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you don't mind calling President Bush an extreme Right Wing Nationalist? Don't mince words like patriot and good american (hah). At the end of the day, that's what he is, a Nazi (look up the definition). He's invaded Iraq (no links to terrorist groups, just a government that you used to control gone wild), started up a concentr- I mean detention camp in Cuba and pushed through some pretty un-libral laws (the Patriot act).

      The most annoying thing is that even though the US population had a second chance to remove him from office, he's still there. The rest of the world still see him as an idiot.

    2. Re:Terrorism & Red/Blue America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A couple of summers ago, I came on someone tossing knives against a tree just a few feet from an extremely busy path in a Seattle park. Knowing someone had to make the weirdo stop

      Why don't you just mind your own business, dipshit?

    3. Re:Terrorism & Red/Blue America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It's terrorism because its goal is to create terror pure and simple. The terrorist themselves make that very point. The means they use is irrelevant, which is why they're are not 'bombers.' Their targets aren't chosen because they have any military or economic value.

      In what sense is the London transport system not a viable economical and logistical target?
    4. Re:Terrorism & Red/Blue America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be labelled "terrorists" they would have to create terror, and they failed to do that.

      Even the MET are calling them "murderers and criminals".

      P.S: You're simply trying too hard to troll. You're so fucking transparent I can see my house through your pathetic attempt.

    5. Re:Terrorism & Red/Blue America by mbius · · Score: 1

      One of the great cultural divides in Western democracies is between those who still retain a measure of courage or at least respect for those who are brave and those who're simply trying to muddle through life as affluently and comfortably as possible, avoiding all danger and discomfort.

      You think that captures the difference between the Republican and Democrat voter base? And, moreover, the "affluent and comfortable" comprise the latter? Boy are you out to lunch.

      The "base" of today's GOP is motivated by two things: tax breaks and Jesus. There are self-styled "paleoconservatives" who still believe in limited government, fiscal responsibility, and the kind of isolationism that declines helping dictators overthrow foreign governments. But they're drowned out by Reaganite rhetoric that pretends (or has no idea) Dick Perle, Paul Wolfowitz and their colleagues were politically weaned on the Socialist Party USA.

      The "great cultural divide" in our republic (look that up too) is between closet religious fanatics--which I define as anyone who thinks other people should convert, rather than mind his own business--and those of us who don't buy into the popular myth of "clashing civilizations." On your side are the terrorists, the KKK, and these winners. On mine are these guys--don't skip that, it has some new insight on why shutting off your TV means the terrorists lose.

      Rush Limbaugh is a hypocrite blowhard. Tolkien's work is a fairy tale. You're gullible.

      Interesting that you characterize others as cowards when you're only willing to sacrifice other people's lives in a final showdown you're gunning for as hard as any suicide bomber.

      --
      you can have my violent video games when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
      Prime UID Club
    6. Re:Terrorism & Red/Blue America by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1
      The "base" of today's GOP is motivated by two things: tax breaks and Jesus.

      Off topic and you are out to lunch as well if you think this, there is a lot more to them than this. Besides it isn't about the GOP, it is about the DNC and just how pissed off they can get their own voter base. What is the DNC about today besides "abortion rights" (as if it is a "right")? They have a raving lunatic now as the chairman (screaming Howard Dean, even he admits he looks like a lunatic after watching a video of himself)! This is definately not the Democratic party I know from the past. They are way far left from anything I remember. This is very difficult to explain here, however I hope you look into it. What was Jimmy Carter for? How about JFK (Tax brakes, amoung many other things)? No surprise that the Dem's have had only one president in the past 25 years. Unless guys like you wake up I don't see a change in this trend for the GOP.

      Why did you mention the KKK? Whose party has a very well known KKK member, complete with skeletons in his closet? It is Senator Byrd from West Virginia, a life long Democrat. Someone the KKK put into Congress because he is so influential. If he were a Republican I bet the press would have him for lunch, the NAACP would be on him like a cheap suit. He has even broken the Senate rule on Filibusters - the so called "nuclear" option. They should call it the Byrd option.

      Well, at least you knew that we live in a Republic. Did you know that 8 out of the 9 Supreme court Justices were appointed by Republicans? One was appointed by Bill Clinton - know which one?

    7. Re:Terrorism & Red/Blue America by mbius · · Score: 1

      Off topic and you are out to lunch as well if you think this

      I was recalling the exit polls of the 2004 presidential election and my own discussions with die-hard, straight-ticket GOP voters. I think it's accurate to call these people the "base" targeted by the party's campaign strategy, but if you need Congressmen showboating religion as a partisan wedge issue:

      "The long war on Christianity continues today on the floor of the United States House of Representatives...Like a moth to a flame, Democrats can't help themselves when it comes to denigrating and demonizing Christians."
      John Hofstadtler, R-IN, US House, Defense Spending, 6-20-2005, CNN

      Daily Show, "Hyperbolic Rhetoric," video here, 2:52: http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/ videos/headlines/index.jhtml?playVideo=16327

      Stewart, as usual, cleans his clock.

      --
      you can have my violent video games when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
      Prime UID Club
    8. Re:Terrorism & Red/Blue America by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1
      I was recalling the exit polls of the 2004 presidential election and my own discussions with die-hard, straight-ticket GOP voters. I think it's accurate to call these people the "base" targeted by the party's campaign strategy, but if you need Congressmen showboating religion as a partisan wedge issue:

      "The long war on Christianity continues today on the floor of the United States House of Representatives...Like a moth to a flame, Democrats can't help themselves when it comes to denigrating and demonizing Christians." John Hofstadtler, R-IN, US House, Defense Spending, 6-20-2005, CNN

      The Senator is simply repeating what I already said. The Dems keep trying to bring stink on the Republicans by associating them with some sort of religous crusade, of which most people know they are full of it. The dems are the party of liberalism they tell us, loose morals and "tollerance". They want tollerance from us and are totally intollerant with conservatives (how dare you say God!). So what is a moral authority in America to "rebel" against? It is religon. Otherwise they are simply blithering idiots having a tantrum. So the Senator is right, they can't help but to keep repeating this propaganda about religon in an attempt to get others to believe it. Otherwise what would they say? The "their rich" monster is brought out from time to time, doesn't seem to go anyplace. A lot of Dems are rich, some very very wealthy - billionaires with a B.

      Do you personally feel that you are being pushed into a religon? If so, which one and by whom? Did the state, county or someone from the city make you go to church? So how are these "terrible" religous people impacting your life? It is very tough to separate out what is truly religon and what is time tested wisdom. Wisdom that trancends even into those that are pure athiests. For example lets look at a very famous one - "thou shalt not kill". Religon or not? Since that trancends every civilization it is very difficult to say that is religon.

      By the way, you might want to watch something other than the daily show. It is comedy. Stewart himself has expressed concern about people thinking they are getting real news from him.

    9. Re:Terrorism & Red/Blue America by mbius · · Score: 1

      they can't help but to keep repeating this propaganda about religon in an attempt to get others to believe it. Otherwise what would they say?

      I'm not sure. Without muscling some imagined US Christian persecution, politicians and commentators have no stupidity to capitalize on except "liberal is evil," a mantra becoming all the more naked as neo-con politicking becomes indistinguishable from the liberal socialism of its intellectual forebears. They need a wedge; as per my original reply, that wedge is Baby Gee.

      Most people don't have a problem with Christians, but many take issue with some dickhead saying the religion is UNDER ATTACK by or AT WAR with the rest of us. See the difference?

      It's my personal feeling that the fundamental tenets of the religion will quite literally come under attack in the not-too-distant future, as they're flagrantly ridiculous, but from libertarians and not democrats. If you think the GOP's had a problem reconciling cheap labor with xenophobia, wait until the people with truly conservative fiscal policy talk frankly about mythology.

      I suggest you follow your own wisdom about current events. When you can't tell which stories Jon Stewart and SNL fabricate outright, versus when they take shots at real people for deserved reasons, you live in a bubble. Blowing steam out your ears at "those damn liberals" for their incisive material doesn't make your point of view attractive to educated people.

      --
      you can have my violent video games when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
      Prime UID Club
    10. Re:Terrorism & Red/Blue America by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1
      I'm not sure. Without muscling some imagined US Christian persecution, politicians and commentators have no stupidity to capitalize on except "liberal is evil," a mantra becoming all the more naked as neo-con politicking becomes indistinguishable from the liberal socialism of its intellectual forebears. They need a wedge; as per my original reply, that wedge is Baby Gee.

      Most people don't have a problem with Christians, but many take issue with some dickhead saying the religion is UNDER ATTACK by or AT WAR with the rest of us. See the difference?

      This is funny, really it is. Know what a "red herring" is? You should live in Ireland for a while to understand what religion and war is about. Sometimes they show it in the US - grown (Protestent) adults throwing stones at (Catholic) children for example. It used to be much worse over there, bombings and the like. There are always a few people out there that think something out of the norm. If you talk to them, they are very convinced they are right. Is religion really under attack? Probably not, at least not more than it has been for a very long time. It is easy to get that feeling with the ACLU using God as a fund raiser lately. You see, they get paid for bringing these cases regardless if they loose or not (a 1972 rule allows for this, the state pays them either way). For some reason they classify the God cases as a civil rights case. So they see a pot of gold under anything that has to do with religon and something public. Clearly there is no "separation of church and state". We know this because Thomas Jefferson said so in a letter to a friend later, after all that stuff was signed. In his letter he said that he wished it were in there. Of course the right gets upset because the ACLU seems to only object to as you put it baby gee. Where are the lawsuits about making people use the Koran in college courses and the other clear abuses of establishing a religion? Again, the Democrats see themself (admitedly) as the party about abortion. They offset that as a struggle against religion, even in cases of clear murder. Look up what a partial birth abortion really is. Usually it is a viable baby, nearly to term and they suck the brains out, then deliver the dead baby. I support abortion but not that. Nobody does when they understand what it really is. At least I haven't found one yet and I know some VERY liberal people.

      It's my personal feeling that the fundamental tenets of the religion will quite literally come under attack in the not-too-distant future, as they're flagrantly ridiculous, but from libertarians and not democrats. If you think the GOP's had a problem reconciling cheap labor with xenophobia, wait until the people with truly conservative fiscal policy talk frankly about mythology.

      GOP and being xenophobic? That's funny. I have to wonder if you have the GOP and the Democrats/labor confused. Look at Judgeship denials too. I'm not sure which tenents of religion you are talking about, however I have a feeling they will remain. They have survived for 2000 years after all and this comes up about twice a decade. Quite few of those stories have even been confirmed by Scientists I understand. In fact some in academia go so far as to say the Bible isn't a bad history book. You may want to rethink this one. There is a surge in Religion and away from athiesm now. Athiest are finally realizeing that they are not here by chance. There is more to it than that.

      I suggest you follow your own wisdom about current events. When you can't tell which stories Jon Stewart and SNL fabricate outright, versus when they take shots at real people for deserved reasons, you live in a bubble. Blowing steam out your ears at "those damn liberals" for their incisive material doesn't make your point of view attractive to educated people.

      What the hell are you talking about? I know exactly which ones are and aren't spoofs. There are a lot of people out there that don't, however. Studies show that educated people tend to b

  34. Re:The same BBC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I'm surprised that this should not be true of more media outlets.

    The simplest way I think of putting it in essence is that the BBC is oriented as a national broadcaster.

    Nation==the people of a given country/realm dispersed worldwide
    Other terms such as population and sometimes citizenry==the same people, but only within the confines of that country/realm

    The BBC's dedication to fair and comparable service for the British ex-patriates as much for the domestic audience is truly admirable. I'm not British, and I don't have any affinity to the romantic recollections of the days of Empire. However, the community, ideas and ideals of the British character is founded on quite a solid ideological notion and put into practice effectively by the Corporation.

    Just my belief, but were there to be no John Motson, every Briton would be a little less British IMHO.

  35. Re:The same BBC... by Grym · · Score: 1

    I agree with this point of view. "Bombers" is an accurate way to describe them. They may also be "terrorists", but this does carry an emotional implication as well. It's a little quirky, but I can see the point of simply reporting events rather than making judgements. It's something the media in general seriously lacks.

    The problem is that simply using the word "bombers" carries an air of legitimacy about it--as if the attacks were no different from, for instance, allied WWII bombers.

    This time is one of the FEW instances, as of late, where the word "terrorist" (and/or "terrorism") is entirely appropriate. Driving an SUV doesn't make you a terrorist. Smoking marijuana doesn't make you a terrorist. Disobeying copyright law doesn't make you a terrorist. But blowing innocent people up in subways and buses to intimidate is the definition of terrorism.

    Let's call a spade a spade. If the perpetrators are terrorists, then call them that. And if they're muslim (or Irish), there's nothing wrong in mentioning that too.

    -Grym

  36. Re:The same BBC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    You sir are a misinformed twit who is blithely ignorant of any notion of what public service broadcasting (PSB) is about.

    Take a look at the BBC's Royal Charter and a general PSB Wiki.

    Section 3 of the Charter, in its entirety:

    OBJECTS OF THE CORPORATION
    3. The objects of the Corporation are as follows:-
    (a) To provide, as public services, sound and television broadcasting services (whether by analogue or digital means) and to provide sound and television programmes of information, education and entertainment for general reception in Our United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man and the territorial waters thereof, and on board ships and aircraft (such services being hereinafter referred to as "the Home Services") and for reception elsewhere within the Commonwealth and in other countries and places overseas (such services being hereinafter referred to as "the World Service") the Home Services and the World Service together being hereinafter referred to as "the Public Services".
    (b) Subject to the prior approval of Our Secretary of State or within such limits as may be agreed from time to time between the Corporation and Our Secretary of State, to provide, as public services, other services whether or not broadcasting or programme supply services (such services being hereinafter referred to as "the Ancillary Services").
    (c) Subject to the prior approval of Our Secretary of State, to provide (whether alone or together with any other person firm or corporation) sound and television broadcasting services and communication services (whether by analogue or digital means) and to provide sound and television programmes of information, education and entertainment funded by advertisements, subscription, sponsorship, pay-per-view system, or any other means of finance whether for reception by the general public free of charge or available on individual demand or encrypted or not in Our United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man and the territorial waters thereof and elsewhere in the world (such services being hereinafter referred to as "the Commercial Services").
    (d) To hold the existing and to construct or acquire or lease and establish and instal additional stations for wireless telegraphy and apparatus for wireless telegraphy in Our United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, and to use the same for the emission and reception of wireless telegraphy for the purposes aforesaid, and for purposes ancillary or related to those purposes.
    (e) To hold the existing and to construct or acquire or lease additional equipment and apparatus for the transmission and reception and relaying of telecommunication signals over telecommunication systems or by any other method whether now known or hereafter invented or developed and whether or not over paths provided by any material substance in Our United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, and to use the same for purposes ancillary or related to the purposes aforesaid.
    (f) For all the purposes of this Our Charter to acquire from time to tim from Our Secretary of State for Trade and Industry a licence or licences for such period and subject to such terms, provisions and limitations as he may prescribe, and to exercise the powers herein granted to the Corporation in conformity in all respects therewith and with any agreement or agreements which may from time to time be made by Our Secretary of State with the Corporation, and not in any other manner whatsoever.
    (g) To develop, extend and improve the Home Services and the World Service and to those ends to exercise such licence or licences in such manner or by such means and methods as may from time to time be agreed by the Corporation and Our Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, and to concur in any extension, adaptation or modificat

  37. To the BBC... by matt+me · · Score: 1

    Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

    BBC One, BBC Two, BBC Three, BBC Four, BBC Five, BBC Six, BBC Seven, BBC Heaven!

    BBC, please!

    (Listen to austin power soundstrack)

  38. Dirac? by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 2, Informative

    They haven't had a release in nearly two months, though their CVS has activity in it as little as four days old. I wonder when it'll be usable. Sure hope it's soon.

    --grendel drago

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
  39. Re:The same BBC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... You sir are a misinformed twit who is blithely ignorant of any notion of what public service broadcasting (PSB) is about. ...

    And you are the kind of delusional fool the BBC prizes most ... and I'm being quite serious; sadly.

  40. Re:The same BBC... by Grym · · Score: 1

    I think it is responsible of them to not refer to the perpetrators as "terrorists". These days "terrorist" is nothing more than a buzzword used by those politicians and businesspeople who participate in deceit and real-world trollery.

    So the misuse or misunderstanding of a word should negate its existence or appropriate use? If one did that, he might soon have a niggardly vocabulary full of politically-correct buzzwords, signifying nothing.

    So I guess we shouldn't call one who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation a "pirate". After all, some politicians inappropriately apply that label to those who disrespect copyright law.

    This line of reasoning is the problem, not the solution.

    -Grym

  41. Re:The same BBC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'm sure if you were sitting at home in Berlin between 1939 and 1945 you wouldn't have regarded the bombs raining down on your house as legitimate.

    It's all about perspective. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter after all.

  42. Re:Return of the British Empire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    And now you're called Mongoloids.

    Great job on your driving test, Corky.

  43. [mod parent up] Re:Dirac/Theora? by codergeek42 · · Score: 1

    I completely forgot about VLC! *slaps himself* Bad codergeek! No cookie!

    Thanks, harryk. :-)

  44. Re:The same BBC... by CyricZ · · Score: 1

    Sir, you need a refresher on the definition of "terrorism" and "terrorist". Only once you understand the true meanings (ie. the ones not used by your American media) of those words can you discuss their use.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorist
    terrorist
    n.
    One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorism
    terrorism
    n.
    The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

    Indeed, notice that the very definition of "terrorism" applies perfectly well to the Blair government that has spoken out so loudly against the recent incidents in London.

    The Blair government participated, along with the American government and those of numerous other nations, in the "unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence" (ie. war, bombardment, killings, torture, etc.) "by a person or an organized group" (ie. the Coalition of the Willing) "against people or property" (ie. Iraq, Afghanistan) "with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons" (ie. regime change, forced "democracy", giving up of natural resources, etc.).

    Notice that the actions of such government fits the definition of "terrorism" perfectly. But of course you never see the media make mention of that fact. That is because the media, in cooperation with such governments, have distorted the use of such words. They have become buzzwords that are meant to evoke an intense emotional response, rather than accurately describe a situation. As such, any legitimate news organization whose main focus is to distribute the truth should not resort to the use of such buzzwords.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
  45. it's a shame the BBC content is so crap by JohnLeFucker · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    open source, my arse, when they scrap the license fee then it will be open source.

    --
    happy
  46. Re:The same BBC... by Grym · · Score: 1

    I'm sure if you were sitting at home in Berlin between 1939 and 1945 you wouldn't have regarded the bombs raining down on your house as legitimate.

    Sure I would. I may not like it, but, in this instance, my country would have declared war on them. Moreover, they would be flying according to the generally accepted rules of war--in uniform (marked aircraft), targeting militarily-valuable targets* and under a command structure which is accountable to another society. How isn't that legitimate?

    It's all about perspective. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter after all.

    As nice as that common platitude sounds, it's utter bullshit. It implies all terrorists are similarly freedom fighters. This isn't true at all! Some people are just terrorists. Moreover, there's a sense of moral relativity in that statement. That, any and everything is morally acceptable, because somewhere out there, somebody else agrees. Example: "One man's pedophiliac is another man's hopeless romantic." This may very well be true, but it still doesn't justify anything or make a moral judgment any less condemning.

    -Grym

    *Desdon excluded--an instance of allied terrorism, imho. But, then again, you said "Berlin."

  47. Re:The same BBC... by Hope+Thelps · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The problem is that simply using the word "bombers" carries an air of legitimacy about it--as if the attacks were no different from, for instance, allied WWII bombers.

    It doesn't carry an air of legitimacy, merely of neutrality. It's up to us - me, you, other viewers - to apply our values to the circumstances.

    Ideally the BBC should report the known facts. They report that the explosions occured. They report that people died. They report that such-and-such a group has claimed repsonsibility. They say that Government ministers have made a statement. And so on.

    We listen. Maybe we listen to other sources too. Having heard the reports, WE draw conclusions.

    Listening to the reports on this subject I don't think it's hard to make judgments about the people involved, but that isn't a reason for the news reporters to do it for us.

    The BBC often falls short of those standards, they often do inject their own values into their reporting (values I mainly agree with), but that doen't mean that objective reporting that gives the viewer the information he or she needs to form their own judgments is a bad thing.

    --
    To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
  48. Re:licensing by OohAhh · · Score: 1

    Well they didn't correct the old ones. That is used English spelling, licence, rather than the American/Websterised English, license. Perhaps it should be called dewebsterising?

  49. Re:The same BBC... by Bimo_Dude · · Score: 1
    Well said.

    To me, a terrorist is a thug is a thug is a thug, regardless of their ideological bent or their legitimization at law. Whether it's some brainwashed religious zealot blowing themselves up on a bus, some politician deciding to invade a country for no good reason, or if it's some mafia boss. IMHO, they are all thugs, and are driven by nothing but greed.

    --
    "Teleporting Rodents with D-Cell Battery Displacement" theory -- IgnoramusMaximus (692000)
  50. Re:The same BBC... by Grym · · Score: 1

    It doesn't carry an air of legitimacy, merely of neutrality. It's up to us - me, you, other viewers - to apply our values to the circumstances.

    What kind of value judgment is being made here? The acts were unquestionably terrorism at its very definition. All I'm saying is that we call it that rather than use some politically-correct (oh, sorry, "neutral") placeholder. That says nothing of whether the terrorist acts were right or wrong.

    If this extreme interpretation of journalistic integrity were such a concern to the BBC, then they should similarly replace other emotionally-charged words such as "murder" or "rape". But they don't do this. Why do you think that is?

    Look, I like the BBC. I think they're one of the best (if not the best) major news outlets in the world. But on this issue they're both incorrect and inconsistent.

    -Grym

  51. Re:I wish there was more hand-holding regarding Di by elvum · · Score: 1

    If you want to contribute to Dirac as a programmer but don't want to spend several months studying maths, there's plenty of work to be done outside the field of optimising the codec - interfacing it to every video-related open-source project under the sun for example. There're already Dirac patches for transcode, ffmpeg and mplayer, but that's just the tip of the iceberg...

  52. Re:The same BBC... by Hope+Thelps · · Score: 1

    That says nothing of whether the terrorist acts were right or wrong.

    Your concern was that "bombers" implied "legitimacy". If you didn't mean legitimacy to imply a position on right vs. wrong then I've misunderstood you. However, I can see no reason to object to the word "bombers". I also think its absurd that you feel able to accuse someone else of political correctness when it's you that's complaining that their terminology doesn't carry the message that you want it to - how is what you are asking for not 'political correctness'?

    --
    To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
  53. 40% digital TV is misleading by DFJA · · Score: 1

    This refers to the fact that 40% of homes have digital TV capability. However a much smaller proportion of televisions are capable of receiving digital, as most homes have more than one TV. So even if 100% of homes have digital TV, there will still be a public outcry when they switch off analogue transmissions.

    I personally don't have either......

    --
    43 - For those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything.
  54. Sheer Genuis! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh please, please - can we start some kind of campaign to call all fanatical extremists "Snuggle-umpkins"!!???

    That is just genius!

    If any organisation knew that its members were commonly known as "Snuggle-umpkin-ites", they would have a dreadful time recruiting.

  55. w00t! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I pay £10.99 per month for TV I don't watch.
    At least some of this is going to help create an open source codec which may catch on.
    Go Dirac!

  56. Re:licensing by $nickname_212 · · Score: 0

    This is freaking retarded. I make a compliment about how BBC is not creating a new proprietary OS license, and I am a troll. Obviously, the moderators aren't on the up and up about how complex the Open Source licensing environment is. This time slashdot moderators got it wrong. I would have thought this was an insightful comment as no one else had made a comment about how they were licensing. And being that I work with Open Source all the time, I somewhat know what I am talking about. I guess it goes to show how intelligent the moderators on slashdot are. Slashdot moderators are retarded. Now that is a troll.

  57. The BBC rules. by DrHanser · · Score: 1

    First their free Beethoven symphonies and now this. :)

    --
    What is humor if not pain tempered by time?
  58. Mike Perry's Motives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While Mike's support of the BBC's support of open source is to be applauded, we need to look with a bit of suspicion at his motivation.

    Mike Perry promotes a zealous right wing ideology that sees nothing wrong with nasty collection and monitoring process so long as they are run by pri
    vate, unaccountable corporations based in India, rather than domestic accountable and democratic public institutions.

    But social programs threatens his model. If you provide low cost services to everyone by taking advantage of the cost savings of large scale implemen
    tation, what need do you have for expensive and powerful private companies that are answerable to noone?

    Corporations have as Goal #1 self-preservation. There are indications that Mike Perry wants to prevent individuals from streaming video/audio, so
    his corporate backers can implement their own private and totally closed interface to multimedia computer systems. If you want any media (sound, vide
    o, etc), you go through Mike Perry or one of his Corporate friends. Period. That would let him and his special interest buddies add to their gravy tr
    ain of monopoly markets and closed protocols. And it would also mean that he could deploy technology to pick up signals radiated by computers and to
    track Internet connections. He and his backers might use technology to just collect payments, but a Corporation or special interest group with more m
    oney could buy that same technology for other purposes.


    As the old adage goes, be careful about what you want. You may just get it along with something you don't want.

    --Pike Merry, Redmond

  59. Re:BBC & George Orwell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I know that the beeb is not perfect, but as a UK citizen who has been living in the US for 3 years, I know come to appreciate and cherish the commercially unbiased broadcasting from the BBC. Compared to the crap that is broadcast here in the US, the beeb is the best broadcasting corporation in the world. You only have to look at US cable media coverage of the Iraq invasion to see this.

    "these people" provide news and media without advertisements and commercial backing, and thus without commercial bias, and that is unparalleled anywhere else in the world.

    I fail to see what you complaint is. Subtle and contentious wording after the atrocious attacks in London is understandable. Did they distort the truth? Completely ignore major work events or just outright lie as the US cable networks do on a regular basis?

    Try watching Fox News for a day before criticising the good ol' beeb.

    -SL

  60. Re:The same BBC... by Grym · · Score: 0
    Your concern was that "bombers" implied "legitimacy". If you didn't mean legitimacy to imply a position on right vs. wrong then I've misunderstood you.

    No, you're not misunderstanding me. I was thinking about this after I submitted, and I didn't quite express my point fully.

    My issue with "bombers" is that it fails to describe some pretty important and obvious dimensions of the act. It says nothing of their motives, their tactics, and the fact that at least some people were wronged by the act. It's like me calling the Mona Lisa "oil" or an ornate sword simply "metal."

    Terrorism is obviously the most appropriate word. Does terrorism, in and of itself, carry a negative connotation? Of course. But does that mean that every act of terrorism is wrong? No. Example: stealing similarly carries a negative connotation. But, for example, the story of Robin Hood stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is generally considered a positive thing. Simply using the appropriate word ("terrorism") in no way makes an absolute value judgment than appropriately using the term stealing does.

    The English are known for understatement, and in other contexts, this might be forgivable. However, the intention of this word usage is clearly being done for political reasons--and it has nothing to do with neutrality.

    -Grym

  61. Re:The same BBC... by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 1

    OK, let's not call them terrorists.

    Would there be any objection to calling them, say, murderers?

    --
    No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.