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What Mac OS X Could Learn From Windows

An anonymous reader writes "It is almost unheard of to see something written about what OS X could learn from Windows but this details some good examples. And yes, it includes the right-click mouse." I find about half the suggestions compelling enough to be worth griping over, and the other half off-base, but YMMV.

60 of 403 comments (clear)

  1. Control keys? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple - and the zealotry - need to concede that this battle is lost.

    Huh? So Apple are meant to disrupt the muscle memory of practically every Apple user, by dropping a scheme that they have stuck to for decades, to make it slightly easier for a minority of people who use two different systems on a regular basis?

    What complete and utter nonsense. What next? Drop the dock in favour of a taskbar that works like Windows... because "this battle is lost"? After all, if it doesn't work like Windows, then it must be a disaster!

    1. Re:Control keys? by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Using control keys for keyboard shortcuts for menus would be... disastrous, IMHO. Imagine trying to use Terminal if copy were control-C.

      Control keys are valid ASCII characters. Overriding their functionality so they are captured at the GUI level and thus removing the ability to freely use them as characters would be a significant step in the wrong direction.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    2. Re:Control keys? by Golias · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Besides, the Apple way is far superior. On an Apple keyboard, I can Cmd-C, Cmd-X, Cmd-V, Cmd-S, Cmd-W, Cmd-F, and Cmd-Q (all extremely common shortcuts) by just tucking my left thumb under my hand to the Command key, and hitting the key I want with no strain on the hand at all.

      When I'm using shortcuts on a Windows machine, I hate it that I need to fork my hand wide open, holding the Ctrl key down with my pinky and reaching halfway across the keyboard like I'm playing really open piano chords.

      To make matters worse, they put that fucking useless Windows key right between the Ctrl and Alt, where it's easy to accidentally hit while spanning my hand to use Ctrl-key shortcuts, popping up the Start menu and taking the keyboard & mouse focus off my application.

      Idiots.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    3. Re:Control keys? by Cybrex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So Apple are meant to disrupt the muscle memory of practically every Apple user, by dropping a scheme that they have stuck to for decades, to make it slightly easier for a minority of people who use two different systems on a regular basis?

      I think even you are giving the author too much slack.

      I spend approximately 12 hours a day using computers, and it's almost 50/50 Windows/Mac. Often I'll have them running side-by-side, and switch back and forth every couple of minutes or so. Furthermore, I regularly use Apple USB keyboards with PCs, 2-button Logitech scroll mice on Macs, trakpads on PowerBooks and Windows laptops, and just about every other possible configuration except Apple 1-button mice on PCs.

      I use a lot of keyboard shortcuts, so how much trouble do I have remembering whether I'm supposed to be using Ctrl-C or Cmd-C, etc.? None whatsoever. If I'm using a Windows interface I use Windows conventions, and if I'm using an OS X interface I use Macintosh conventions. I don't consider myself to be particularly talented in this regard, and yet almost never need to give it any thought. My fingers just do it. It's as second nature as touch-typing.

      As an added bonus, when from time to time I find myself in front of a Linux or non-Apple UNIX CLI, I'm already familiar with the keyboard shortcuts because they're the same as an OS X terminal window.

      --
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    4. Re:Control keys? by PKFC · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not to mention how us right handers usually miss the right control and alt (option and command if you will) and on a laptop keyboard they are usually smaller or not there.

      What that leaves us is trying to Open a document or print a document. Mac: easy one handed. Right thumb on control and any key can be hit with a finger on that same hand. Windows: impossible one handed. Left hand on control, right hand pecks out o or p.

      Maybe I should learn to use the right control key. Maybe I should stop whining and pretend that the author of TFA is smarter than me, but from my view, the mac command key is better. Maybe they were thinking about one handed ease of use back in 1984 by sticking the command key right next to the space bar who knows?

  2. Two Button Mouse by jpiggot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple has had support for a two button mouse for the better part of twenty years. Just plug one it, and go...simple as that. The fact that most users chose not to spend the extra $30 to do so, tells you that they didn't really miss it.

    1. Re:Two Button Mouse by Kraeloc · · Score: 2, Informative

      $4.95 US at your local Fry's Electronics.

    2. Re:Two Button Mouse by ArbitraryConstant · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That doesn't help on laptops. Sure I can use a mouse when I have plenty of space to myself, but sometimes there just isn't room or I need to be ready to pack up quickly. Also, the lack of a scroll wheel is particularly annoying.

      --
      I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
    3. Re:Two Button Mouse by Jord · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sidetrack gives you 5 buttons and two scroll wheels all on your trackpad.

  3. How 'bout resizing windows from all corners by JPyObjC+Dude · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This one is a real bother for me on my with Macs. Anybody have a hack or 3rd party way of doing this.

    FYI to non Mac'ers, Mac OSX only allows you to re-size windows at the top left corner of the window .

    1. Re:How 'bout resizing windows from all corners by mmkkbb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, he and you both mean bottom-right.

      --
      -mkb
    2. Re:How 'bout resizing windows from all corners by azav · · Score: 2, Informative

      YES! Simply command or option click and drag would make a window resizable from that corner. That's been my feature request since 1987.

      There IS a hack for this or something like it.

      Lemme dig it up.

      http://www.ocs.cz/OCSmartHacks/

      There ya go!

      --
      - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
    3. Re:How 'bout resizing windows from all corners by mmkkbb · · Score: 2, Informative

      Errr, you've been told about option clicking on the zoom button, right?

      --
      -mkb
    4. Re:How 'bout resizing windows from all corners by elbobo · · Score: 2, Informative

      The idea of sovereign posture (absolute full screen) apps is a hangover from smaller screens and should be on the way out. Its relevancy is something tied to past generations of computing, not our current generations.

      When you've got screen dimensions past a certain point there are very few tasks that benefit from using the whole screen space. Your example of wanting to maximise your browser window is a perfect example of where there's absolutely no need for the use of the whole screen space. Web pages are like newspapers in that the readability of the text degrades as the width increases. The less width (to a point) the more readable.

      The only cases where web browsing benefits from a browser window wider than say 800px is when either the designer has fucked up their job and made the site too wide or when you're viewing an image or diagram or some such, in which case pressing the zoom button will resize the browser window to exactly the necessary dimensions.

      Eventually even Microsoft will have to admit that absolute maximising of windows has become irrelevant due to increased screen dimensions and will have to implement an intelligent zoom feature exactly like Apple's. Apple are ahead of the game on this one, not behind.

  4. Ummm, why do you get to decide this? by BarryJacobsen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From TFA (emphasis mine):
    1) Compatible control keys. Switching between Mac and Windows this drives me nuts. I have to consciously think "command-C or control-C?" It shouldn't have to be that way. And if you're running RDC or VPC and copying and pasting between OS X and Windows!! Sheesh!

    The problem isn't the labeling, it's the location of the keys used. I had to use a Windows PC today and I kept pressing Alt-C to copy. This is why it's a problem. If it was simply a matter of labeling, no worries, mate. Apple - and the zealotry - need to concede that this battle is lost.

    Implementing this would rock many people's boats, so if Apple did make this change it'd have some serious domino affect on other keystrokes and applications that use them, but maybe it could be done with the switch to Intel, just to ease the pain slightly.


    Umm, how exactly did Apple lose? Was there a national convention that decided that the main command issuing modifier key should be hit by the pinky? I much prefer to move my thumb from the space bar and hit command than move my pinky from the a to hit control. Why exactly do we need to conceed here? Because you think you you're right Mr. Author?

    1. Re:Ummm, why do you get to decide this? by hunterx11 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The keyboard shortcuts using the command key on OS X are often analogous to their counterparts on windows which use the control key. The keyboard shortcuts using the control key on OS X are often the same as their Unix counterparts. Trying to change this would create an awful, nonsensical mess which would only confuse users and force them to use the mouse instead.

      --
      English is easier said than done.
    2. Re:Ummm, why do you get to decide this? by TomSawyer · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The keyboard shortcuts using the command key on OS X are often analogous to their counterparts on windows which use the control key.

      Well see that's where the author went wrong, too. The keyboard shortcuts using the control key on windows are often analogous to their counterparts on Mac OS circa 1984 which used the command key.

      --
      If you disagree then it must be overrated, redundant or trolling.
    3. Re:Ummm, why do you get to decide this? by macshome · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Implementing this would rock many people's boats, so if Apple did make this change it'd have some serious domino affect on other keystrokes and applications that use them, but maybe it could be done with the switch to Intel, just to ease the pain slightly.

      OK. So we should swap keys around to be more like Windows because of the processor has a different brand name on it? I don't think so.

    4. Re:Ummm, why do you get to decide this? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not sure exactly when, but at some point in the '80s these keys were standardised to meta-x,c,v for cut, copy and paste (I think a few others were standardised as well). UNIX keyboards usually had a meta key, and used this. Mac kept command, and Windows, lacking a proper meta key, used control (which just confused everyone, since interrupt and copy were the same key combination). Up to this point, Microsoft was using control-insert and shift-insert for copy and paste.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:Ummm, why do you get to decide this? by OglinTatas · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Was there a national convention that decided that the main command issuing modifier key should be hit by the pinky? I much prefer to move my thumb from the space bar and hit command than move my pinky from the a to hit control."

      I remapped my windows keyboard because excessive use of the ctrl key was causing joint pain in my pinky. Therefore, in my opinion, it is the ctrl key that is in the wrong place. I switched it with the caps loc, which feels fine for me, but I concede that the alt key location (where the cmd key on a mac keyboard is) would be a good spot also.

      I did not need to remap my mac keyboard.

      Maybe I will switch the windows keyboard again for consistancy with the mac.

  5. OSX can learn from Windows. by BigZaphod · · Score: 3, Insightful

    OSX can learn by the bad example that Windows sets in terms of security, usability, stability, and well, just about everything else. Wait... In fact it seems like OSX has already learned those lessons!

  6. You mean the bottom right corner? by rebug · · Score: 4, Informative

    I think the idea is that your cursor doesn't change into a dozen different zany pictures and adopt a dozen different functions depending on which part of the window you're pointing at.

    It's all about simplicity.

    --

    there's more than one way to do me.
  7. Multi-button mouse by Master+Of+Ninja · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think this writer still hasn't got it. OSX has supported multi button mice for ages - I have a 5 button Microsoft bluetooth mouse working perfectly with 10.3, making expose easy to use.

    The whole point of the one button mouse is to make it easy to use for beginners, and to prevent developers being lazy when designing programs. And using expose with a single mouse button only needs for the screen corners to be set up to trigger the actions.

    While some of the points seem relevant, others are completely off the mark.

    1. Re:Multi-button mouse by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The whole point of the one button mouse is to make it easy to use for beginners, and to prevent developers being lazy when designing programs.

      Those are two important points, but don't underestimate the RSI aspect. When RSI is a risk, the way to reduce it is to drive the action back to bigger muscles.

      The two button mouse requires you to use the muscles in an individual finger, and worse, individual tendons which exacerbate carpal tunnel syndrome. (multi-button trackballs do better). With the 1-button Apple mouse you can use your whole hand to click. With the current 0-button Apple mouse, you can use your whole arm.

      This is good ergonomics but it requires a more careful user interface design to utilize.

      --
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      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:Multi-button mouse by Chief+Typist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wrong.

      How a context menu works is NOT completely understood.

      The other night, my wife was on the phone with her mother providing tech support. I'm not exaggerating when I say that she said "NOT THE RIGHT BUTTON, MOM!" about 20 times. The context menu was coming up, and the selected action (default) was not the one needed.

      Her mom is not stupid, but she does hit the wrong button on her mouse. To her, there's no difference -- they both click.

      And keyboard combinations are not a valid comparison -- you don't accidentally click on the keyboard and the mouse at the same time.

      Having a one button mouse makes sense for people like her. Power users who can (and do) benefit from multiple buttons can go out and buy a better mouse.

      -ch

  8. I'd say... by Otter · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Changing from CMD to Ctrl: Arguable, but as for "maybe it could be done with the switch to Intel, just to ease the pain slightly" -- that's just silly. I don't understand why people are convinced that when Intel CPUs are put inside, the OS is suddenly going to change to Windows. (Except for the Slashbots, who think it will suddenly change to Linux.) The switch to Intel will have zero effect on UI.

    Save button on toolbars: This is hardly an OS X issue. Lots of Mac apps have them. I can't remember if iApps do or don't, but there's no big deal there.

    Only showing relevant file types: The current method is classic Steve. You show all files because the user knows they exist and you don't want to confuse him. Advantages both ways.

    Sort directories to the top: If that's a problem, you probably have your tree setup poorly. Again, one can argue this both ways.

  9. NOOOOO!!!!!!!! by rokzy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mac already supports right-click, and more. in fact, my iBook scroll pad has the functionality of a mouse with 5 buttons and 2 scroll wheels. but I usually use my Apple single-click buletooth mouse. it's enough.

    REQUIRE just one button, SUPPORT multiple is the Mac way. and it's also the best way. anyone who doesn't understand this is ignorant.

    1. Re:NOOOOO!!!!!!!! by aristotle-dude · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Wrong Wrong Wrong. It is not a usability flaw. You have it backwards. Relying heavily on right clicks is a usability flaw. Does the web interface use right clicks? No, of course not.

      Look at any study with "new" computer users and you will see that most of them have a lot of trouble adjusting to a "right click". Have you ever worked in technical support? I have and I can tell you that I had to explain what "right click" meant many times to users.

      There is never a "need" for a context menus. If you "need" a context menus, then you have made a bad interface.

      If you intended on creating desktop applications, do us all a favour and work as a web developer for a few years before you touch any desktop applications. You will learn how to develop simple and "usable" interfaces that way.

      I speak and someone who was an ecommerce developer for a number of years and now works on desktop applications. Web development taught me how to design interfaces from a "user's" perspective.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    2. Re:NOOOOO!!!!!!!! by tavilach · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apple supposedly sells one-button mice so that developers won't assume that all users own two-button mice. In the Windows world, because developers hold this assumption, it has become commonplace to place everything in the context menu. This makes for extremely poor usability.

      What you're advocating is precisely what Apple is trying to get away from.

      OS X can definetely learn from Windows, but not in this respect. At least in my opinion.

      --

      "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world." -Archimedes
  10. Re:Multi Button Mouse by b1t+r0t · · Score: 2, Funny

    Exactly. That's a hardware issue, not an operating system (OS X) issue. It's not OS X's fault that Apple ships computers with single-button mice.

    --

    --
    "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
    "Open source is evil." - Microsoft
  11. A few gripes about the article... by applegoddess · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1. Control keys can be changed in the preferences for the OS, and for RDC and VPC as well. Plus, it wouldn't be horrendously difficult to change the key mapping to make it more convenient as well.

    2. Save buttons on toolbars are up to the developers. And in all honesty, I think a lot more people use keyboard commands to save, instead of clicking on a tiny little button in a toolbar that not even every app has. This definitely is not an OS specific thing...they're available if you need it, but nobody's forcing anyone to use it..

    3. My Logitech MX518 works on my Macs. So does my MX900 bluetooth mouse. And all of the other multi-button mice I've ever bothered to connect via USB or bluetooth. end of argument, unless you're trying to say that Apple should ship multi-button mice with their computers. They shouldn't. There's almost nothing worth having a multi-button mouse for that you can't do with a one button mouse, or with the keyboard (except when it comes to gaming and the likes). Now, with the coming Intel Macs, maybe they should. But that's only assuming the person buying the machine will install another OS on it as well.

    4. Why on earth do you need to see only the relevant file types? Sometimes OS X will grey out the ones that aren't relevant or not selectable, but what good is it going to do? Afraid of accidentally naming your file a name that already exists?!

    5. Useless. In all honesty, Spotlight/Quicksilver/Launchbar sort of get rid of the need for that, like the article mentioned.

    6. Why on earth is this supposed to be a Windows thing? It's not. It's in OS X. Blame the developer(s) if it's lacking in the software you're using and complaining about.

    Frankly it sounds like the author is just an idiot, but that's my two cents. All of his points are almost completely irrelevant or not applicable.
    On top of that, might I add that Microsoft and Apple have copied each other too many times to count, and it's not necessarily good.

    1. Re:A few gripes about the article... by javaxman · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Frankly it sounds like the author is just an idiot, but that's my two cents. All of his points are almost completely irrelevant or not applicable. On top of that, might I add that Microsoft and Apple have copied each other too many times to count, and it's not necessarily good.

      Thank you. Yours was the reply I was going to have to write otherwise. I'd just like to add :

      1) Frustrating your installed base for "possible" future customers who've shown an extreme preference for your competition isn't always a good idea. Having a Preference to 'Use Windows-compatable control/command key mapping' or something might have more merit, but still isn't a very UI-consistient idea. The window menus say 'command'. It's not really just a labeling/placement issue, is it?

      2) Mail.app, just to mention one example actually provided by Apple, has a Save As Draft button on the New Message toolbar. Not an OS issue.

      3) Bringing up the single-button mouse at this point makes you just sound stupid at best, or trolling at worst, to be honest. Your point is the multi-button-mouse should be standard and the single-button one goes away ? Look back to my first point. My 3-year-old son and 70-year-old mother-in-law both prefer the one-button mouse. The Mac mini comes with no mouse. Buy the mouse you like.

      4) You can always sort the results by file type, can't you? That way the ones you want to see are grouped together? And just in case you actually want to select or know about a file that's incorrectly typed ( easy to happen now with those damn windows .foo file endings ), it's actually a nice feature to have them all shown. Also, filtering those file dialog results in anything other than Apple-supplied apps is dead-easy for a Cocoa developer, so write to your favorite app's project manager if you want that feature in it. It'll take maybe a day's worth of effort to implement and test. Seriously.

      5) again, sort by file Type and you get the folders grouped together. How is this a serious complaint ? When you ask for the results to be sorted by file name, you don't want the results sorted by file name if the file is a folder? What the hell is that? What if I have a group of related files and folders all starting with projectx and want to easily grab them from a folder filled with files and folders all starting projecty ? Even without Spotlight, this is a debateable feature in any OS. Windows should change in this case, I say...

      6) I could easily find several places in the windows OS where control panels and the like for OS functions lack useful context-sensitive help. Any program always needs more of that kind of thing, though, and that's because it's not a critical feature.

      In the final analysis, there are probably more important things that OS X could swipe from Windows. Like being able to natively run any Windows program, especially, say, full-screen apps like oh, I don't know, video games. I know that sounds like a joke, but really, that's always been the Windows users biggest excuse for not considering anything else, and frankly, we'll see what we get from the Mac Intel in that regard... what would the reason for buying Windows over OS X be if you could run full-performance Windows binary apps on either?

  12. Nit-Picking by West+VA+Flamer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most of these seemed to point out litte small niy-picky things. With the save button, I know when im working on a document its easier just to hit Commad-S from the keyboard then to go to the mouse and hit a button on a tool-bar. I usually turn any sort of tool-bar off though to save screen space. Multi-Button mouses? God. The mac is compatible out of the box but its more of a statement of how simple it is to use then anything else. Moving folders up to the top is just a pain in the ass if you are trying to find a file in a folder full of other folders and files. Say if the file has a name that begins with "F" you have to hit the F-Key a bunch of times to get past all the folders that have names starting with it to get into the files. Wastes more time like that then it could possilbley save, plus you can sort by type. And anyway, who reads documentation for a Apple product?

  13. Re:How about a fast way to lock the computer? by Jord · · Score: 4, Informative

    Go into your keychain and turn on the menubar addon. Then you can lock your screen with two clicks of your one-button mouse.

    Simple.

  14. Re:Multi Button Mouse by FidelCatsro · · Score: 2

    Which is something i never had a problem with , All the apps are designed to use one button as best they can allowing me to set my mouse buttons to do what i want.
    I personally have a logitech mx900 , Now before anyone jumps on with the one button mouse jokes .How many people enthusiast use the mouse that came with their pc (if they built it themselves then its a totally null argument).What i have discovered the main advantage of the one button mouse is that now my wife is far more proficient with keyboard shortcuts.

    --
    The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
  15. Pretty much there already and caveats. by azav · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1. There are tools to remap keys. I'm sure the command and control keys can be switched as well. Yes, you do need to look for the tool or option.

    2. Idiotic. Command S is not easy enough? Tool bars are generally evidence of poor design. You memorize the shortcut keys for your frequent options. Yes, there can be designs where there are too many keys to remember but SAVE? Oh command S people.

    3. control click anyone? why a multi button mouse when control click works just as well and doesn't confuse new users?

    4. Interesting, I'll agree.

    5. This is horrible. Totally completely stupid and horrible. You sort by name and just TYPE the name of your folder and then press command down arrow to open it. Why in hell do people want an alphabetical sort to separate any files from folders? How do you know when the folders stop and the files start? What if you have more than one screen of folders? Folders at the top is something I really really think is pretty damn stupid as it breaks the metaphor of alphabetical sorting. Oh, if you want it, PathFinder, a finder replacement, has it

    6. Um, ok. Software authors heed to increase their budget to have a copywriter write the context sensetive help.

    And on : - Existing files selectable in Save dialog
    This sucks. I want to click in the file list to set my focus there so i can command up or command down arrow into and out of folders. But now, when I click to set focus, if I hit a file name, I mistakenly replace my current file's filename with that of another file and if I press save, I run the risk of overwriting it and deleting that other file. Super lame.

    --
    - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
  16. Re:scroll wheel by Jord · · Score: 2, Informative

    Buy an aftermarket mouse and plug it in. Instant scroll wheel.

  17. Fine, but let me turn it back off by greed · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Make Macs look more like Windows, and I'll never upgrade again. I don't like how Windows works, regardless of all the security issues (both design and bug). Windows could be 100% flawless and I still won't like it, or anything else that works the same way.

    Or, perhaps, someone can tell me how to get XP SP 2 to do any of the following:

    • Sort directories with all other file types
    • Show all files in a directory, rather than just the ones that match some magic pattern
    • Separate file name from file type
    • Use an menu accelerator key that's close to the space bar, rather than near the edge of the keyboard

    OK, on that last one, tweaking the keymap would do it. (And that would solve the article's author's problem with Command vs. Control--swap Windows and CTRL on his Winbox keymap, or Control and Command on his Mac.)

    And I don't want stuff that only works for the current load/save dialog, like switching to list view. Yeesh.

    At least most Windows apps finally stopped defaulting to saving in the directory the program is in, that was really dumb.

    Not that Macs are perfect, either, but they're closer to how I want to use a machine than Windows is.

    1. Re:Fine, but let me turn it back off by belroth · · Score: 2, Informative
      # Show all files in a directory, rather than just the ones that match some magic pattern
      Changed the filter in the open dialog to all files...
      # Separate file name from file type
      I don't understand this one. You can sort by either and hide the type/extension if you want.
      # Use an menu accelerator key that's close to the space bar, rather than near the edge of the keyboard
      They work in the same way - you press two keys...
      OK seriously I don't have a problem here but I am training myself to use two hands rather than one for this to reduce wrist problems. I use the right meta keys for shortcuts on the left and vice versa - it does also make all keys easily accesible.
      --
      I hereby inform you that I have NOT been required to provide any decryption keys.
  18. Recursive news by guet · · Score: 2, Informative

    1) Compatible control keys. Switching between Mac and Windows this drives me nuts. I have to consciously think

    OS X is not Windows, strangely enough, some people even choose it above Windows because it is different.

    2) Save button on toolbars. I don't think any of the Apple software ever gives you the option to include a Save button.

    Learn to use Cmd-S, buttons for every command is a Windows thing, though it has crept in in some programs like MS Word.

    3) A multi button mouse. And you thought I'd say two.

    Plug in your PC mouse.

    Only show relevant file types in open and save dialogs. For those who like seeing every file that's every existed in their Documents folder, give them a checkbox to show all files.

    This is debatable, but the only one of his points which might have some foundation - it would be handy to be able to winnow files in the open dialog. Presumably the justification is that files should always be visible, even if they're not directly available in a certain program.

    In fact in Tiger you can do this in a neat way with Smart Folders (create one for only word documents, one for images etc, then put them in your sidebar or someplace easy to find from the open dialog).

    Sort folders to top of directory listings I know that we don't go folder mining as much since we got Spotlight, so I won't labor on about this one.

    Click the 'Kind' column in column view, or smart folders again.

    More context sensitive help. I notice since I first raised this two years ago, more of it has crept into OS X. So I guess at least I can't be flamed for this one!

    I assume this means tooltips. Don't like them myself, as I feel they encourage GUI designers to litter the screen with cryptic buttons with the excuse that users can use tool-tips to decode them.

    Now why is it that I can list all the features I want Leopard to have and as long as none of them are from Windows, its cool?
    But dare suggest OS X needs a feature already in Windows and the world comes down on you.


    Additional features are not always welcome, efficient or even necessary.

    What's far more important than an extensive feature list is that features are well integrated, consistent and well thought out - throughout an operating system and the applications. If I have one major criticism of Apple recently it's that they have forgotten to keep things simple and consistent in their myriad home-grown apps.

    And if you can take the heat, what would you like to see Apple borrow from Windows?

    There are undoubtedly a few ideas in Windows (which haven't already been borrowed already : ) which would be great on OS X. Some parts of the Finder could do with help for a start (Network, thumbnail browsing etc). Any long time Windows users like to suggest some? (No, things which are just different don't count, there has to some things which work better).

    Sometimes I think Slashdot articles would be more thoughtful and insightful if the editors just linked to comments from previous stories rather than uninformed nonsense like this.

  19. one way to do it by rebug · · Score: 2, Informative
    In the Desktop & Screensaver prefpane, set one of the hot corners to "Start Screen Saver," then check "Require password to wake this computer from sleep or screensaver." You're likely to get pissed about setting it off accidentally all the time.

    I use a simple AppleScript
    tell application "ScreenSaverEngine"
    activate
    end tell
    named "Lock Screen" that I launch with LaunchBar. Cmd-space, lo, done.

    --

    there's more than one way to do me.
  20. Re:My nominations by admactanium · · Score: 2, Informative
    Finder needs an equivalent to View, List in Windows Explorer. I don't want the full detailed listing, nor the big icons, nor the NeXT-like view. Just a nicely sorted list of filenames with a small icon next to them. While we're at it, View, Thumbnails would be pretty handy too.
    you mean like list view? this has been a part of mac os since, well..., since mac os has existed. it's cmd-2 in the finder to change a window to list mode. unless i'm confuses as to what you're requesting.
  21. Re:Two simple things that drive me batty by Otter · · Score: 3, Insightful
    There are two things missing from Windows that drive me absolutely battyboth tied to the lack of automated window arrangement.

    The two UIs are designed to be used differently. The Mac interface is designed to have a lot of windows visible at the same time. Windows is designed to have one fullscreen window (or two tiled windows)visible at a time. A sibling comment says it perfectly: "Though at least windoes makes it easier to use one window per screen."

    I understand your frustration -- I'm accustomed to the Mac method and I find Windows (especially the giant opaque super-windows in Windows Office) infuriating.

  22. OS X already allows remapping of control keys by EccentricAnomaly · · Score: 4, Informative

    From article: Switching between Mac and Windows this drives me nuts. I have to consciously think "command-C or control-C?" It shouldn't have to be that way. And if you're running RDC or VPC and copying and pasting between OS X and Windows!! Sheesh!

    If you really must do this, you can do it in 'system preferences'. Just go to the 'Keyboard & Mouse' pref pane and click the modifier keys button. voila! switch control and option or whatever else you want.

    --
    There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
  23. the author needs to learn more about OS X by EccentricAnomaly · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Overall, this article is typical windows user complaining because they don't want to spend the time to learn a new platform. OS X has these features, it just takes time to learn them. Same thing if switching from Mac to Windows. Let's go down the list, shall we then...

    1) Compatible control keys.
    OS X already does this... just look in system preferences for the keyboard and mouse pref pane.

    2) Save button on toolbars
    This is an app specific criticism and has nothing to do with the OS. Office has these save buttons in the toolbar. in iTunes, iPhoto, etc. such a feature is not needed (everything is saved by default.)

    3) A multi button mouse.
    see parent: Exactly. That's a hardware issue, not an operating system (OS X) issue. It's not OS X's fault that Apple ships computers with single-button mice.

    4) Only show relevant file types in open and save dialogs
    conceded... I guess. I don't mind the OS X behavior here because I am in the habit of opening files via drag and drop from spotlight or the finder.

    5) Sort folders to top of directory listings
    Finder's list view does this if you sort by the 'kind' column.

    6) More context sensitive help
    conceded. OS X help system in general needs work. But last time I ran Winders it wasn't much better.

    --
    There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
  24. Another knock-on effect that makes Windows harder by GrahamCox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Another result of the same decision to use th eALT key for keyboard shortcuts is that it prevented form being used as a kind of super-shift key for typing characters. On the Mac this is great - it's trivially easy to type accented charactérs as you gö along if you want, without breaking your typing speed or train of thought - by using ALT (or option, in Mac parlance) to get to those characters. On Windows, you have to open up a whole separate character palette and cut and paste it from there, or else memorise very arcane keyboard codes. While OS X also has a character palette, it's not often that you have to use it, while on Window you have little choice. To compound the problem on Windows, it also cuts and pastes the font and style from the character palette, which is just plain stupid - I just want the character, please adopt the font and style where I paste it! This is so obvious that I wonder just who provides UI decisions on Windows - this one could have been done better if a 5-year old child had been consulted.

    What MS should have done is to specify that an extended keyboard with a command key would be necessary to access keyboard shortcuts in Windows, and within 6 months or a year, those keyboards would have been the standard. Instead they imposed a workaround that had no upsides except compatibility with the existing PC keyboard, and many downsides that are simply accepted by the 'dozers today as "the way it is".

  25. Please, no! by SJS · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Although it is amusing that someone would want Apple to borrow features from Microsoft instead of the (usual) other way 'round, I really would not most of the features suggested in the article. Please, no, the only thing worse than change for the sake of change is change to conform with a really bad standard.

    Like everyone else, I'm going to look at the suggestions:

    1) Compatible control keys.

    Oh, please, no.

    If it matters, then there should be an argument about which way is better, other than "more people are used to the Microsoft way". And if it doesn't matter, then it shouldn't be a big deal.

    It isn't the labelling, but the position? Let's not muck around too much with the position, eh? It was an unmitigated disaster when some bozo decided that the control key ought to be on the same row as the space instead of to the left of the "A" key; let's not continue the trend of rendering the standard keyboard unusable.

    If you want a different layout, remap the keys yourself, or buy a different keyboard. Line up to buy one of the Optimus keyboards if they come out next year, and map all of the keys to exactly where you want them.

    If I were paranoid, I'd say that this suggestion was designed to drive the sorts of people who haven't been appropriately indoctrinated into the Microsoft Windows Way[tm] away from computers entirely. If I had to use the Dell keyboard that came with the machine at work, I'd probably be contemplating a job that didn't involve computers, and wouldn't for the foreseeable future.

    2) Save button on toolbars.

    As has been pointed out, this is an application thing, not an OS thing.

    Personally, I'm not a big fan of toolbars. Trying to puzzle out the little icons isn't a profitable use of my time (and! yet! here! I! am! on! slashdot! yeah, yeah, I get the irony.), so I'd just as soon have the option to get rid of the toolbars and reclaim that screen real-estate for getting actual work done.

    Finally, the appropriate solution would be to give the user the choice of setting up the toolbar (like Mail.app) with every possible leaf in the menu-tree. Why bicker about "save", when all the leaves in the menu should be allowable targets for the user to put into the toolbar?

    3) A multi button mouse

    Hardware request. Bogus objection.

    What I want is a freaking three-button mouse with a scroll-wheel, where the scroll-wheel isn't trying to double-up as the third button. Yes, I know, I can "just click on the scroll-wheel", but I don't want to. I also don't want tiny little buttons that I can use with my thumb or pinky or whatever. I'm not looking for a funky keyboard on my mouse, after all (which is where this eternally-growing-button-list trend goes).

    But if the OS works with a single-button mouse, fine. Why should that be a problem? You want people who do best with a single-button mouse to have a terrible time with their computer? Such sadism makes for a very poor UI, and is no doubt part of the reason I bailed out of the Microsoft-centric world-view many years ago.

    4) Only show relevant file types in open and save dialogs.

    Many applications ghost out "inappropriate" files already. But making the actual hiding of information a system default is just bad form -- I get extremely annoyed when my computer hides information from me.

    Which leads into this nonsense of "hiding file extensions". THEY ARE NOT FREAKING EXTENSIONS: THE ARE SUFFIXES!

    Yes, boys and girls, it's the height of idiocy to look at the NAME of a file to determine how to handle it when you can look in a file to see what sort of thing it actually is. One of the stupidest "features" of Microsoft Windows is it's inability to understand that a JPEG file is actually a JPEG file even thought it's named "Foo", or, gosh darn it, even maliciously renamed to "Foo.GIF".

    5) Sort folders to top of directory listings

    Th

    --
    Pick One: http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~stremler/sigs/sigs.html (Note - disable Javascript first!)
  26. Copycats by oahazmatt · · Score: 2, Funny
    Microsoft copied so much from Mac OS, why can't Apple do a little copying back?

    I can totally relate to this guy. Apple should start using some of Microsoft's ideas, like binding the browser on a molecular level to the OS itself! I upgraded my iBook to 10.3 and it put in Internet Explorer, which I don't prefer to use. I was able to delete it by dragging it to my trash can! No BSOD, no registry conflicts, no "flagrant system errors", nothing!

    --
    Those who believe the Internet is private,
    find their privates are on the Internet.
  27. Tourist visits another country by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Every time I hear about articles like this, even if they have some sort of merit, I feel that the author missed something:

    If I travel to another country, people there have their way of doing things. They have their own culture. Sure things may seem difficult to the foreigner, but to the people living there everything makes sense and for them it is obvious. The only way to deal with it is to learn about that culture and accept things for what they are. Of course that doesn't mean that they are immune to learning different ways of doing things.

    Switching to a different OS is much the same thing. Not everything is going to make sense, but some things might. Over time you learn the way things work there and accept things for what they are, better or worse.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  28. Re:Nonsense by Theora · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Look at any study with "new" computer users and you will see that most of them have a lot of trouble adjusting to a "right click".

    Now look at any study of what percentage of computer users these days are "new" users. Hint: 1984 was more than 20 years ago and there have been some MAJOR changes in computer user demographics since then. In the US, the average computer user is NOT still using his first computer, and his first computer more likely than not, had a two button mouse.

    Granted, in markets such as India or China, most users are now new users, but Macs are nowhere to be found in those markets, and Macs are still using that canard about new users to justify their design in their major markets where only a small fraction of users are new to using a computer mouse.

    I supervise on a large educational helpdesk in Australia and from my experience many if not most teachers and school administrative staff would still count as "new" users, which is not surprising given that our average teacher's age is 52 and they therefore didn't grow up with computers.

    If you limit "new" users to kids starting out, then this probably is true but many new users are older people who seem to have trouble remembering where to left click and where to right click. And when right clicking on a file/folder can mean deleting that item, it can be pretty messy. So should we recognise that not all people are quick to pick things up and therefore cater for the lowest common denominator or should we just stop these people using computers? Surely it's easier for powerusers to adapt than it is for newbies.

  29. Make FINDER **CLEAN** to use.. by torpor · · Score: 3, Informative

    What i hate about the Finder is when you open a view of a Folder using "View As List", and then have to manually tweak the window size in order to fit the list details in that view.

    With Windows Explorer, you can hit Control-Numpad+ and it will automatically do a little jig for you to get all the content revealed in your window .. and it will resize the list view columns as well, so that the data just fits nicely.

    I desperately need this feature in Finder .. why isn't Finder smart enough to adjust the Detail columns according to the metrics of the data being displayed? Seems to me I could fix it with Applescript, but damn .. I wish Finder just moved itself around to conform to your window setting..

    --
    ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
  30. One button mouse great for kids by monkbent · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I teach Kindergarten, and the biggest problem I have during computer time is getting the kids to click on the correct (left) mouse button. It's not just that they can't figure out, but also that their muscle development makes such actions more difficult. I sorely wish we had one button mouses instead!

    And I think that's the whole point. Anyone can use a Mac as-is, and those that need it can add functionality with another mouse. Those people, of course, are the same people that are most likely to understand their need and know what to buy. A kindergartener, on the other hand, certainly lacks the wherewithall to change the mouse on their computer! Shouldn't the burden be on those who are capable of bearing it?

  31. Re:Multi Button Mouse by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The benefit of a one-button mouse is not readily apparent until you don't use a mouse at all. If you try using a trackpad, for example, you will find that click and control-click are far more ergonomic than left and right click - in general you use your thumb for both buttons on a trackpad and moving between the two is irritating - particularly since you often end up with your thumb resting on the wrong one. Sure, after a while with a specific trackpad you get used to the position, but the trackpad on my PowerBook is the first one I've used and not had to get used to.

    The real clincher though is when you come to use a touch-screen. If you've used Windows on a touchscreen then you will know that you spend an enormous amount of time hitting the button that makes your next click a right click (and some things you can't do at all, because they require right-drag). If you have used a Mac on a touch-screen, you will know that you don't. The reason for this is that Mac software is all designed on the understanding that a user may not have a second button. If Apple release a TabletMac, then they will have a wealth of software that is already highly usable with it.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  32. Re:Another knock-on effect that makes Windows hard by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not to mention quite how wasteful the Windows use of the alt key is. A single key on the keyboard dedicated to invoking menus? Who thought of that idea. Not using the key for a common function, or as a modifier, using it to invoke menus. From which several key presses are then required to select any options.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  33. Rebuttal by Nexum · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1. Compatible control keys

    The gist of this writer's complaint is squarely focussed on the positioning of the 'Command' key (some call it the 'Apple' key) on the Mac keyboard. He goes as far as to say that 'Apple - and the zealotry - need to concede that this battle is lost..

    I am both a Windows and OS X user (Windows mainly for games) and I can attest that the Mac keyboard command key layout is vastly superior to that of a standard PC keyboard because of the position that you must contort your hand into in order to use the latter.

    For many PC users it is a case of simply not having experienced any better, so it's difficult to convince them to change their ways, but take an objective view of using both layouts with just one hand, and it's incredibly difficult to argue that the PC way is less strenuous. Perhaps this is responsible for much greater adoption of keyboard shortcuts among casual users on the Mac platform.

    2. Save button on toolbars

    Saving actively modifies a file on disk, perhaps overwriting or saving a 'bad' copy over what was originally a preferred version by accident. I am content not to have my toolbar filled with such items. However, this suggestion is not entirely devoid of merit (unlike the others, as we'll see).

    3. A multi-button mouse

    I don't understand why we still have this issue. You can plug practically any mouse into OS X, with any obscene number of buttons you desire and it will work. The writer continues: 'Why stop at two? Especially with things like Exposé, Dashboard and Spotlight.'. It would, frankly, be a nightmare for anyone but a poweruser to use. My mother does just fine with a one button mouse, she has enough trouble remembering what needs to be single clicked and what needs to be double clicked in the interface. This is truely a ridiculous idea. The preliferation of dozens of buttons of mice is a typical Windows thing - just look at how the Start menu itself has also grown from a simple and fairly useful applications menu (Win 95) to the default monstrosity of usability that it is today (Win XP).

    It's also worth mentioning that the usability of software on the Mac platform benefits hugely by forcing developers to come up with more elegant ways with which to allow control of the app - rather than (as is all too often the case in Windows) relying on the context menu to shuffle all the little commands into.

    4) Only show relevant file types in open and save dialogs.

    This has the effect of confusing users by making it look as though some of their stuff may be missing. It also does not allow for the identification of a folder via its contents (looking for a folder: "It's the folder with the Picture of Mom in it" for example). The OS X way gives you the best of both worlds. If anything, it should be Windows changing to the OS X way here for these important usability reasons.

    5) Sort folders to top of directory listings

    Not without merit.

    6) More context sensitive help.

    God... please no. Tooltips should, in the perfect interface NEVER be necessary. They are analogous to sticky tape holding together the interface... 'what's that? I've designed a crap interface and no-one can tell what this button is supposed to do from it's placement and icon? Well I could go and redesign the interface, or I could 'fix' it by adding a tooltip, and leaving it up to the user to figure it all out."

    --

    This sig has been deprecated.
    1. Re:Rebuttal by Theaetetus · · Score: 2, Interesting
      5) Sort folders to top of directory listings

      Not without merit.

      Nah, most annoying thing about Windows. I've got a folder with many sub-folders in it, and also many documents/program files/etc. (default tree that this particular program installs, and can't be changed). When I go in to the folder (usually looking for a particular document starting with "a"), even though it's in alphabetical order I have to scroll through several dozen folders just to get to what should be the first or second entry in the folder. That's just wrong. Alphabetical is alphabetical... Sort by kind is "separate folders from documents".

  34. Re:Nonsense by aristotle-dude · · Score: 3, Insightful
    You just don't get it. Just because people can get used to a particular interface, it does not mean that it is intuitive or a good one. Newbies are precisely the people you should be targeting when desiging an interface in the first place.

    There is nothing wrong with offering a context menus as an alternative as long as you provide easy access to those functions from the main menu.

    Sometimes it makes more usabiity sense to use context sensitive tool palettes (inspectors) to expose functionality because it is readily visible on screen as opposed to context menus which are hidden until you right click.

    Take a look a the success of the iPod as a "consumer" device. Part of the reason why it is successful is because it is designed to be as simple as possible and usable by the "average" consumer. It is not a "geek" toy nor does it include a lot of superfluous/niche functionality.

    There are plenty of context menus through out OS X and OS X apps. What you will notice is that all functionality in those context menus are also readily available through other means. What you will not see is superfluous right click menus, only menus where it makes sense within the context of the object you are over top or have selected.

    I think it is horrible design to rely on context menus for functionality and it is also horrible to include core functionality of an application's main menus within a context menus. It should only contain items relevent to the object you are interacting with.

    OS X and OS X apps largely respect that ideal. If you have a problem with that, tough.

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  35. Font Smoothing by Heian-794 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One thing that Windowx now handles much better than Apple:

    Sub-pixel font smoothing

    Windows font smoothing is really easy ont he eyes, whereas Apple attempts to smooth the fonts in two dimensions, something that comes off looking clumsy. (Because the red, green, and blue parts of the pixel are arranged horizontally, one can simulate a white line that's 5/3 of a pixel wide by lighting up all of one pixel and then R and G of the next, but the height has to be a whole number of pixels.)

    It's supposedly a licensing issue, but I'd really like to see Apple make some kinds of deal and adopt something closer to ClearType. It really is a joy to look at.

  36. What about Mom and Pop? by nullhero · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They already find Mac to be more useful as is. My parents don't need a two button mouse they prefer the single one. They don't need and open/save dialog to change filenames. They don't need a Windows type explorer. Apple does a great job for those people who never used a computer to sit down and start using one. I've posted this in the past that my parents, who are complete novices, first bought the Dell WindowsXP paperweight. When I pushed my Mom to purchase an Apple then she started using it and my Dad can't get off the computer anymore. He went from being scared of the damn thing to ordering everything he wants online and even sold his Dell paperweight on E-Bay. We forget about those individuals that have no experience on a computer and find that the GUI and mouse is very intuitive. Which is why the Mac OS is exactly bothersome for people who used Windows but for others it's perfect as is.

    --
    Save Pangaea!! Stop Continental Drift!!
  37. Remote Desktop , please! by onpaws · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please bring us a fast Remote Desktop like MS RDP 5 or ICA.

    Yes the apologists will say:
    - Use SSH
    - Use VNC with compression
    - or from a technology standpoint, that it isn't doable with the inherent bitmapping in Quartz Extreme.

    A fast secure remote desktop protocol for use with both servers and clients, is definitely one point that Apple's OS X sorely has missed.