Slashdot Mirror
Amazon Seeks Web Services Patent
theodp writes "CNET reports on Amazon.com's latest attempt to make inroads into consumers' wallets, a patent-pending online marketplace where consumers search and pay for Web services. The patent application describes a world in which Amazon collects fees from Web Service Providers who charge $500/month for AAA Street Maps, $200/month for driving directions, and $0.01/use for weather and human genome maps." From the article: "Amazon also notes its marketplace technology seeks to address the lack of easy-to-use methods for collecting consumers' Web services payments, as well as to provide Web services companies with ways to manage and monitor their offerings. In its role as an intermediary for the marketplace, Amazon would collect a fee from companies providing the service."
How the hell can you patent the ability to charge money in exchange for services!
Surely thats equivelent to patenting capitalism!
Damn latency!
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
This sounds like a business directory, only online. How the hell could you patent something like this? It just doens't seem right.
From TFA:
Correction: This story incorrectly reported the status of Amazon's patent application. The application was published Thursday; it had been filed last year.
Not when I patent the business process of patent hoarding... hah hah haha
This signature has Super Cow Powers
perfected by generations of record company executives and book publishers: stick yourself between the money and the talent.
"Current Web services implementations do not typically provide effective means for potential consumers to discover or locate Web services that are desired or that may be of interest." Ever heard of google?
+1 funny, -2 overrated. Life isn't fair.
Sounds like the **AA organizations continuing efforts to sink a siphon into EVERYBODY'S wallets, whether they want it sunk or not.
How is this any different from the days of paid placement on Altavista and Yahoo? (before they "Googleized" themselves)
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Neither the article nor the patent application mentions anything about $500/mo. for maps, nor any of the other pricing that the /. text mentions.
Maybe the /. article itself should be modded as "flamebait." :)
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
As much as we enjoy watching great innovations come out of corporations who employ amazing talent, occassionally we get a quick and dirty reminder that these companies (Apple, Amazon, Google, etc.) are just as worried about the bottom dollar as M$. If it weren't for porn, the Internet wouldn't be nearly as whiz bang as it is today.
Guess its time to patent the left click, and any forms of pressing downward on the left (right for left-handed users) mouse button.
In Soviet Russia, Soviet Russia jokes make YOU!
You know, every time I read something along the lines "Amazon Does Something That Slashdot Users Are Going to Hate," I think of the EPIC 2014 flash, talking about Amazon and Google merging to control the 'net. Yeah, yeah, bad patents, etc.-- but the real question is, who else will do this work? Who else is going to handle the e-business for those too lazy to do it themselves? They have a valid point, that businesses want someone else to do collection and authentication.
/.: Do we actually resent companies who do things well, doing them? If not, then what's our collective problem?
And, of course, they aren't making some kind of patent requiring exclusivity. So anybody who *does* want to do it themselves, still can.
So, my question to
From the article, this looks to be a combination of a specialized search engine and some sort of PayPal equivalent, which they want to protect by patent so nobody else can do quite the same thing. My prediction is a free (ad-supported, perhaps) but slightly different equivalent will come along slightly after this is launched, and hopefully an entertaining patent lawsuit that will take over the hole that SCO has left in Slashdot for some time now.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
wtf
w00t
What with Patent Examiners fleeing and all.
Personally I'm surprised Bezos doesn't have bodyguards and firearms at all times like Darl McBride with the way he pisses the OSS movement off.
Sorry, but I would just prefer having some advertising instead of paying a few cents per search.
The hip way to get your IP. No ads, ever.
The is awesome. The USPTO needs to approve this so that Jeff Bezos can get more money for his pet project Blue Origin. http://blueorigin.com/
I love the way this is always Amazon's patents, and very rarely do we see anybody discuss any non-Amazon patent applications. Ok, not rarely, but easy 50% Amazon, 50% the rest of the world.
It's especially strange, as Jeff Bezos has come out in favor of patent reform. You can't fault the company for continuing to file patents. To do otherwise, even if you hate the system, is to open yourself up to others patenting your stuff, and having to defend yourself in court. It's unilateral disarmament in a heavily armed town.
omg amazon can eat me, I am so sick of thier bogus bullshit patents. soon we will all be paying them royalties for every breath we take.
...Amazon is attempting to patent the business practice of being both the owner of the mall and the payment processor rolled into one.
No, not a lot of new ideas here. No, not patent worthy in my estimation.
That being said, I do believe there is a market for a web services aggregator like this model - small web services, independently operated, but tied together through a unified interface and payment system would offer a lot of convenience for the non-/. crowd out there. There's a reason that the Yellow Pages continues to make money, and there's a reason that PayPal is successful. Amazon wants to position yet another incarnation of themselves there; kudos. But patenting the concept seems like a decent waste of government resources and time.
But if it'll get the Federal Government off of the Hot Coffee bandwagon, eh, what's a little more damage to the patent system...
This patent violates my US Pat. No. 31415926, relevant parts of the patent are quoted below:
US Pat 31415926: Mechanism for patenting obvious computer-related shit and suing people who are already doing it:
Claimed:
A mechanism, consisting of
a) a lawyer
b) obvious computer-related shit
c) a large collection of buzzwords, including but not limited to "Via tcp/ip," "client-server architecture," "VLSI processor" and "fully TLA compliant"
d) a patent on said shit, including said buzzwords
e) a lawsuit filed by lawyer (a) invoking patent (d) and buzzwards (c)
Methodology:
1. Come up with obvious computer-related shit (b) that tens of thousands of companies worldwide were already doing
2. Hire lawyer (a) to write and file patent (d) using buzzwords (c) to make shit (b) appear nontrivial.
3. Retain lawyer (a) to file lawsuit (e) against companies mentioned in step 1
4. Settle out of court, or drag lawsuit out until said small companies settle
As can be clearly seen, Amazon is infringing on my patent! What does the slashdot community recommend I do?
Let's divide the world in two halves:
...
- United Patent States of Amerika: formerly know as the land of the free
- Rest of the World (tm): where every free-seeking developper, webmaster, etc will eventually go.
Although I'll probably be modded flamebait for this post, let's check in 5 years if the USA can still cope with the current system that eats liberties, innovation and more
Ah, yes, one more thing: I wish you good luck.
main(char O){O++&&(((O-291)*O+27788)*O-868020?1:putchar(O++
There's got to be a way to outlaw "patent predators". They're screwing up the system, filing "frivolous" patents for anything their lawyers can plug into the boilerplate, regardless of whether they invented it, own it, have a use for it, made it work, or any other criteria. They merely patent everything, because the only cost is lawyers' fees. Amazon and other corporations have lawyers on salary or otherwise at low cost for fixed time. So they become patent mills, making up with one "hit" on a patent that makes money all their losses on those that are rejected, or don't make money. But there's no "history" applied against a patenter that merely fills up the patent legal system with junk (including rejections). So there's no reason for them not to abuse the system - especially as its cost, especially in the Judicial Branch which tries/hears patent challenge cases, is so heavily subsidized by the taxpayers (of which corporations are very underrepresented).
Patent attorneys that have a "batting average" below some level, maybe 30%, should be barred from filing, or even working on, applications. Until maybe they've earned the right again, like by some kind of recertification from a real law school. And would-be patent holders below a certain percentage should also be barred. The PTO and courts should also be able to find people guilty of "patent abuse", which would bar them from applying for some sentenced time.
Until then, we have to expect that since the people are paying for these patents to be "attempted", the applicants will generate more of them. We have to get our Representatives to pass laws to rein in these serial abusers. And elect Representatives who will do so - the entire House is up for reelection in 2006, and 1/3 of the Senate. If we even make it more expensive for incumbents to get reelected, that will neutralize lots of corporate bribes^Wdonations that keep the status quo, at our expense.
--
make install -not war
rooooar
Oh, Web services, not Web Services. Well, it is only a matter of time before Amazon tries to patent the latter.
Ummm... I think the majority of people commenting so far are missing the boat. We're talking web services in the vein of XML Web Services... i.e. SOAP and all those wonderful things... not services as in "goods and services go look it up on Google"....
The patent application describes a world in which Amazon collects fees from Web Service Providers who charge $500/month for AAA Street Maps, $200/month for driving directions, and $0.01/use for weather and human genome maps.
I've always thought of Jeff Bezos as some kind of Robin Hood. A guy that doesn't care about money so much as creating great services and technologies and bringing them to the world. Bear with me...but it occurs to me that if someone truly hated the current software patent norm and they had a lot of money, they could simply apply for every software patent they could think of and lock the patents up and throw away the proverbial key.
So I guess my question is, is there any reason to give Jeff Bezos the benefit of the doubt here? Is it possible, however improbable, that's he's applying for these seemingly absurd patents as a means of keeping the internet alive by not enforcing his patents?
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
They might indeed be requiring exclusivity, and to say other companies aren't doing this because of "laziness" is really stupid. Try looking up the economic term "externalize"
This is what Amazon is really attempting to patent. This isn't really that far fetched.
Ok--to all you "what about Google" folks--this is talking about discovery of Web Services not about a human using a search engine to find a web site. It's not a trivial problem, and that statement quoted of TFA is not as far off as you might think (but you have to know what it means by Web Services).
I'm not taking the side of Amazon here, but let's please at least try to understand what we're arguing about first!
How is this difference compared to UDDI registry maintained by IBM, Microsoft and other big players in Web services. UDDI registry is atleast free. Why would anybody want to use Amazon's Business Directory?
"charge money in exchange for services!"
Its the world oldest profession. And being the middleman pimp is the worlds second oldest.
We stopped using line numbers waaaay long time ago. That's so old-school.
They need to write their patents in, at the very least, C or Pascal.
ASM code should be forbidden.
I want a patent on a process whereby any information you could have asked a person for before (phone numbers, addresses, book titles) will be accessed via a computer and a computer will respond with the information.
I'd like to see how the hell they're going to enforce such a stupid thing.
I want to patent tax collection .. then sue the federal government for patent infringement ..
The scarrrry part is that that is not all that much more stupid than some patent applications that we are seeing.
How about patenting "A method to search internet for information"
1. type http://www.google.com/
2. fill in your search term in text box.
3. Click on 'Google Search'
- Sh!t
It's a very specific patent. I don't see what's wrong with it?
Anyway, when the final patent was written up I didn't really understand it. It was my algorithm, and solely mine, but much of the patent text made little sense to me. A big chunk was merely what I had written with legalese inserted. But other chunks were beyond me. In the claim section was a list of claims and each claim just looked like a paraphrase of the previous one. The patent office responded recently saying that they rejected a bunch of claims and accepted the rest. I checked out the claims: they were just paraphrases of all the other claims. There is no way they could have been singled out in a meaningful way as being different from the others - certainly not so different that they needed rejection instead of acceptance. It was bizarre.
Anyway, after my experience with the patent office I'm inclined to think the process is basically fake. Lawyers write a bunch of gobbledygook for high fees. Patent exmainers pretend they understand it for a low salary (but it's better than unemployment, right?). And then they roll dice to decide what to do with it.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
...(blah, blah, blah,blah)...
5. PROFIT!
You're welcome. Now forward 15% of all profits to me.
"And, of course, they aren't making some kind of patent requiring exclusivity. So anybody who *does* want to do it themselves, still can."
I'm a bit confused. Isn't exclusivity and licensing the point of patents? Amazon doesn't have a great track record of non-exclusivity.
Amazon Patents User Viewing Histories
Amazon Patents Cookies (from the "are you f'ing kidding me dept.)
Amazon One-Click Shopping
From what I can see, Amazon's primary business may be Amazon.com. But, it's secondary business is certainly to patent the obvious and the mundane, then attack its rivals with them. And there are plenty of rival companies out there already doing this for many services, not just web. In fact, you can sell web services over eBay now, using Paypal, also owned by eBay. How is this different?
I8-D
Googles tries to patent syndication ads
Back in the early 80s I trademarked All Of The Above, so I'm afraid he's in violation, by trying to patent a previously trademarked concept.
... evil laugh ... a zillion dollars!.
...
He can pay me
Small unmarked bills please. In easily carried spacecraft, if you don't mind
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Let's divide the world in two halves:
... um, Iraqiranicelandistan.
- United Patent States of Amerika: formerly know as the land of the free
- Rest of the World (tm): where every free-seeking developper, webmaster, etc will eventually go.
What is this United Patent States of Amerika you speak of? We have always been Soviet America, and have always been at war with Oceania
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I pretty much have nothing to do with Amazon anymore. You want to protest this sort of thing? Go buy some books from another online retailer. Before you do, check to see if your Visa can be registered with visaextras.com. Buying from B&N through visaextras.com gets you a 20 bonus points/dollar spent at B&N, and if you buy a typical load of college text books, you'll be able to get a free gift card for NOT shopping at Amazon :)
(I don't get anything out of advertising visaextras, I just want to give people an incentive to protest Amazon)
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Porn is actually one of the first adopters of web shopping carts. Perhaps you may not have noticed, but it was PORN that helped popularize popups (no sick jokes please)... everyone else in the "we want to rip your cash out through your ribcage" group has simply followed suit.
Porn was one of the primary leaders in the USAGE and therefore popularization of all the wonderful things that keep so many commercial IT companies in business... (spyware, shopping carts, online transactions, online trial malls, etc)
And for the record, I'm neither young, nor do I subscribe to porn (though in college it was a fun passtime on beerless weekends when the girls went home).
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
How can they patent a Microsoft technology? If anyone gets the patent it would Microsoft. You can generate web services in Microsoft Visual Studio within 5 clicks. Web services are nothing more than an API. So they want to make a patent in which they can charge for content using an API, hmmm... Everybody does that already.
If you don't like Amazon's tactics, instead of hot air, then let your money do your talking: shop elsewhere and let your friends and families know you don't shop at Amazon and tell them why...
Just what I was looking for: a reason to shop somewhere besides Amazon.
Amazon have pissed in the face of Tim Berners Lee (www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/), and every engineer since 1950, who have worked to develop technology that supports the Amazon way of life.
Amazon only exists because of the work of 100,000 people, NONE OF WHOM work at Amazon.
I know someone who works at Amazon, he does Perl coding. I don't see Amazon patenting Perl stuff.
All their credit cards, internet, protocols, databases, are all other peoples work. And now this.
WEB SERVICES WERE NOT INVENTED OR ENVISAGED BY AMAZON - they are once again stealing other peoples work, and just saying, well, we use them, so lets patent them.
They are steaking peoples work, and the f*ckers should be flogged, I have said it before and I wil say it again, Amazon are so f*cking arrogant to do this, they just take take take take take. Language? F*ck yeah, they can piss off.
You know, I bought a shed load of stuff off Amazon, I mean lots, $2500 in about 8 months, which is fairly good. I spend about the same at an online travel company. They have been good to me, so I still use them, Amazon have no pissed me off. Guess what, in the next 8 months, 0 for them.
So what they make more money than then entire readership of slashdot does in a week in about an hour of trading.
To confirm you're not a script,
please type the word in this image: inboard random letters - if you are visually impaired, please email us at pater@slashdot.org
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Amazon are seeking a patent on a technology they did not develop, envisage or architect. A technology that was used by many more before them.
In other news, Kia motors have decided to patent the internal combustion engine, because, what the hey, how do they know they weren't the actual ones who invented it?
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
Because that would be exactly the same thing as they are doing now. If Amazon start using bittorrent to sell video media on their website - you can bet your ass they will patent it.
What makes me SICK is that the libraries they use to facilitate their 'invention' of web services are not written by them, but are most probably common open source implementations.
So :
1) wait for open source communities to develop cool things
2) use it
3) patent it to lock other out
What the fuck Amazon? Just to let you know I won't buy another thing from you, you LEECHERS stealing from the open source community, and the engineers who innovated throughout history to support your online store as it exists today, from Edison to Bernes-Lee.
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I know that on /. amazon are seen as the best thing to happen to books since sliced bread, but with all this patent grabbing (and pursuing) isn't it time we considered a boycott?
I for one am having second thoughts about whether to give them any more of my business if this is how they conduct themselves.
If they were any other company would these practices not by now have put them only slightly below SCO on the evil scale?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Hey, so does this mean I can try to patent currency and/or currency equivalents as payments for goods and/or services? This way, I can get a piece of the transaction every time someone else makes a transaction! I wonder why no one else has thought of this...
Homer no function beer well without.
No more of this I.P. bullshit! Stand up for old fashioned traditional American union busting, predatory pricing, and worker exploitation!
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
You all will be hearing from my lawyers for patent infringement.
"If Common Sense was so common, it wouldn't be such a valued trait."
Just from the impression I get from TFA, this sounds a little like I'd be paying for the privelege of seeing advertisements. Am I misinterpreting this, or is this the case? Some clarification would be nice.
This sig no verb.
Blue Origin == Amazon's crazy-ass patents in space.
2015 -- Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos granted a patent today on a system which describes the means of utilizing reusable launch vehicles in order to reach sub-orbital space.
2016 -- Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos granted a patent today involving a system for colonization of non-Earth worlds involving reusable launch vehicles in order to obtain a landing on said planet's surface, Mars for example. Changes name to Vilos Cohaagen.
2017 -- Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos granted a patent today on the distribution of breathable air within an artificial structure.
2050 -- Apparently following the instructions of a chest-bound mutuant, a construction worker from Earth started an hitherto unknown Martian reactor that melts the permafrost, automagically making the air breathable. Bezos' wealth subsequently eliminated, returning peace to the solar system.
3115 -- A study was released today indicating that the willy-nilly patent system, originating in the early 21st century, inhibited innovation more than any other cause in the last 2,000 years (including epidemics, space rocks and bureaucracy).
See the IMAGES section...
The also are trying to get the patent on the device configured to access web services: A computing device configured to provide to Web service consumers access to Web services from third-party Web service providers
Isn't that a computer? Or any device that accesses any service over the web? Been done before??
---John Holmes...
I love how everyone pisses and moans about patents. I'm against software patents. I don't use Microsoft products. I don't order from Amazon.
If you don't agree with Amazon's stupidity, don't order from them. Ever.
Sure beats pissing and moaning. That will get you nowhere.
at this rate, slashdot should get a "amazon web services patent" section.
That means there's only one thing left to do...
Who's charging this? These are the same maps that members can get in paper form for free at the AAA, are they not?
Did any of you actually read the article or the patent, or do you all just immediately start spewing bytes after skimming just enough keywords to post a knee-jerk response?
in the current climate you NEED to take any patent you can, that is why google has patented highlighting search results yet slashdot never informed anyone of this. Basically only Amazon's patents are reported here. Also it isn't just web services that have been patented, since there are very few people here can actually read a patent to know what it actually covers or how narrow it actually is.
then there is the fact that contrary to popular belief amazon has rarely used their VAST patent portfolio in any sort of offensive way. Yes they went after BN.com after they had simply copied amazon's website. That case never went to trial as it was settled. Then there is Cedent, who first went after amazon for patent infringement, only when they wouldn't settle did amazon legally remind them that they were infringing on amazon's patents. Stop looking at the world with slashdot glasses!
I would LOVE to see Amazon event attempt to collect a royalty payment from me. I'll meet them at the door with a double-barrel.
This just PISSES me off, just like liberal pussy pushovers appeasers.
Fine. Be that way. But next time you need to be sued, you are outta luck, buddy.
So take that.... "changing the system from within" never works.
The sad reality is that if you develop proprietory software, ultimately it is not yours to do what you like with:
1. the market will have its say
2. the shareholders will force you (and you will be obligated) to behave the same way.
Sooner or later you will have to patent/lock up/manipulate your work to exploit your customers.
That's why RMS did the GPL the way he did - the decision you make today to open source your product cannot be rescinded
Yeah you can change the licence in later versions, but you can't withdraw your released work from circulation.
The man's a genius
The best things in life are fees, right?
Microsoft tries to patent things like FAT, dragging icons, the colour blue.
But at least it designed / developed / colour tested / invented / copied in a darkened basement these things and actively created them.
Amazon downloaded *apache.org/*ws* and then says, wow this is neat technology, it must have been made for us! Woohoo lets patent its applications.
And google actually wrote the search engine highlighting at least. You see. Google innovated, they invented new ways of doing things (obvious or not) and wanted to eeek as much of an edge from their efforts as possible (and counter Microsofts course of action).
Amazon did not invent or develop any of these things. They took some technology that was being widely used, and applied it to their own website to make money, and now want to pretend they made it. They didn't though!
As I said, they do not have their own web service libraries, I am not 100% sure (although I can ask) they they use stock libraries for a huge range of what they do (i.e. webservices, xml shyte) which only adds salt to the wound.
If they invented 'super cool secure eacy simple adaptable free open web services' then let them patent it. This is stabbing a lot of people in the back, who actually nurtured the world of WS and online technologies in general.
I don't want to make a cool technology like bittorrent tomorrow, have amazon find it useful and patent its applications.
Of course they are not going to aggressively use their portfolio, until it is profitable for them to do so. The very fact that they patent it though sucks.
I realise as a business they feel the need ot cover their asses, and I wouldn't mind them scurrying for a patent portfolio, but the difference is: IBM is a technology creator, their bread and butter is making technology. They havea gazzillion billion gajillion patents, and have opened many up the OS community.
Amazon sells books (and kitchen sinks). Let them patent leather bookmarks (as opposed to xml shared bookmarks!).
To confirm you're not a script,
please type the word in this image: yawning
Wow! that is an application image word for today.
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They didn't patent the "One-Click-Close-Your-Account"-Button yet.
Strip away the tech related bits and Amazon are patenting a really new idea: charging people money for a service :). Think the whores of Babylon beat them to it ;).
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
*claps and cheers*
I think Amazon is a pioneer, everyone should
patent everything possible and sue everybody.
Too bad they don't do it, big cowards cross-license
with eachother.
This system has to get totally fucked somehow,
before something is done..
I admit that I have been pissed at Amazon ever since they
did the "one click shopping" patent, on the other hand, they are one of my main online shopping sites for items for my home, bath, and bedroom. Just recently I bought a new Bed mattress/pillow sham/etc set from them that was $300 less than where I found it locally. I think this is a problem many people face. I refuse to go to Walmart buy HP products, and will not buy Nike shoes ( though I have bought other products from them ).
Luckily, I found another online store that has the same line of bed 'dressings' for the same prices as Amazon, so I will order from them as I complete the set, instead of from Amazon.
However, there remains a whole slew of items from them
that others cannot compete on price-wise and shipping speed wise ( or selection-wise ). I just may make a project out of finding alternative online sources for everything Amazon sells and throw the links onto a web site (with domain name ihateamazon.org, maybe? ). I will probably be hard pressed to find another online store that ships products to me in 2 days even when I select standard shipping, but its worth a shot.
I can't afford a sig!
I think some of the unix text file browsers (less?) used highliting of searched strings long before google.