Slashdot Mirror
A Look Back At Expensive System Launches
As the launch for the Xbox 360 approaches, with incredibly expensive bundles up for offer, Joystiq takes a look back at expensive system launches of the past. From the article: "Commodore 64 - $1207.04 (originally valued at $595 in 1982) Despite being the most popular computer model of all time, selling between 17 and 25 million units, the Commodore 64 was a relatively expensive games machine by today's standards. However, it offered extremely good value for money by offering unprecedented sound and graphics quality."
i spent many an early '80s morning trudging through the snow delivering papers to come up with the $1,200 for it and it's external cassette drive!
I forgot what I wanted to say, but honestly, it was important.
The Apple II and C64 were not game machines. They were home computers that could be used to play games. I had a C64c growing up and my sister and I typed out all of my school stuff with it. My dad did spreadsheets for work.
Comparing the XBox 360 with the Commodore 64/Apple II is stupid. They aren't comparing the 360 vs. my home computer even though it plays games. Why? Because then their stupid article won't be taken seriously by the 16-year-olds who have never even seen an Apple II.
I'm waiting for the XBox 360 vs. graphing calculator articles. "The 360 is expensive but a great grpahing calculator can cost a fair amount of money. And really aren't all 3D games just complex math anyways?!"
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
What do these comparisons prove? I mean, two consoles that failed because of their price, two desktop computers and a freaking PDP-1?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
I used the C64 for the longest time, the only reason I had to upgrade was for 80 column displays. Upgrading to a 128D gave me a couple more years of service, I could BBS at full screen, and work on papers.
Even when I got the Amiga, 80 column display and ANSI color wasnt perfected in terminal applications. Finally switching to a 486.
I use to goto the Spokane commodore users group, and seen people still using a c64 for reading news, writing news letters with spell checkers. Was cool to see how these old classic computers where still going strong. The only problem I ever had with the C64 was Floppy disk allignment, suckers would always get out of allignment.
Great little computer for its day.
Relatively speaking, technology gets both better and cheaper over time.
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
I don't know why everyone is making such a big deal about the xb360 bundles. Most consumers are just going to buy the core system and 1-2 games anyway.
Also the bundles arn't that expensive when you compare to previous console launches. By the time you buy all the add ons and games you want for any system, you would easily spend more than even the cost of these bundles.
The bundles are directed at the more hardcore gamers, who have no problems buying a lot up front.
Article summary: Historically, people have happily paid X-Box 360 prices for "gaming systems" that were actually multi-purpose computers. Sure, you could play Adventure or Breakout on them, but you could also do your taxes. Pure video game console systems at similar price points, however, have flopped. (Actually, though, looking at the historical chart at the end, the Atari 2600 seems to be an exception.)
How can anybody write about expensive video game systems and NOT mention the Neo Geo. In the early 90's, that sucker had *games* selling in the multiple of hundreds of dollars. It was the king of the hill in terms of $$$s (until the 360 came along)
And also, I don't think its fair to compare a video game console with full blown computers from the past.
These pretzels are making me thirsty.
A much better comparison would be the Vic-20 by Commodore.
The C64 was a home computer; the VIC-20 was a console computer. It was primarily used to play games, although it did have word-processing capability (though limited to 22 chars per line), etc. Its display was typically a TV, and IIRC, it came with a joystick.
Price at retail launch (Jan 1981) was $299, which is approximately $610 in today's dollars, making it about the same as the Xbox 360.
Of course, GTA4 in ANSI just doesn't seem as appealing.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
The best I can compare this launch to is the Neo Geo launch and games. Uber expensive system that brought unrivaled GRAPHICS into the home. The system was largely a failure overall. The 360 and PS3 are both Graphical powerhouses, but graphics alone fall flat in the face of limited releases and poor gameplay/design.
The "Gee-Whiz" factor of eye-candy is fairly powerful, but slow release schedules and high prices have historically been killers. The fact that the underlying accessibility and gameplay needs to be top-notch as well cannot be overlooked and nothing so far seems to be bringing anything new to the table.
With the average bundle cost hovering around $600 and the fact that most stores will be selling in bundle-only format, I actually predict that the sales will not match the PS2/Xbox/GC releases. I think there will be a lot of hype, and a lot of die-hard fanboy sales, but I just don't see either of these systems capturing the average game market in any meaningful way. And once the slow release schedule becomes apparent the sales numbers are going to drop off quite briskly. The only unknown in this launch is the Revolution, and I am keeping a keen eye for what it's future holds.
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
The Pioneer LaserActive was freaking expensive when it came out (main unit around $700). I think it was more than the 3D0. The add on modules for the Genesis or TG-16 cost more than the original systems were running at the time. I think the LaserActive counts as a game system. It had laser disk games that you couldn't play on anything else at the time.
h tm
http://darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com/console/laser.
My Xbox Live Gamer Card
The C64 was a COMPUTER, not a console! I know that these days the difference has become a bit fuzzy, but back in the days of wonderful 8bit graphics a console was something you just played video games on, that's all it could do. A computer was something you used for word processing, data entry or something of that nature and MAYBE play King's Quest on.
Oh yay. Another "bash teh 3vil M$" article. It seems to me that there are a lot of haters out there who are trying very hard at the moment to convince themsleves (in the absense of any real evidence no less) that there is something horribly wrong with the X-Box 360.
All arguments about the merits of any of the next gen systems are moot because nobody really knows anything about any of them yet.
The PS3 and Revolution will be bundled just like the X-Box is being and the price will probably be just as ball-shrinkingly high.
It all seems like stupid knee-jerk reaction to the fact that MS might not be so evil and retarded this time.
I'd appreciate it if the Slashdot editors would actually find some real news.
Commodore 64 - $1207.04 (originally valued at $595
Wow...do things cost twice as much as they did in 1982 on average? It seems so hard to believe, the way prices sneak up on you, but then when I think of the particulars, what I pay for a candy bar or soda, what I've heard houses go for, what a paperback book costs...I guess I have to believe it.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
Um, do you read the games section of Slashdot often? It's the only section of the site that almost always seems to adore Microsoft.
Heh. Maybe you didn't have the Optional 16K RAM expansion pack for your Vic20. :) I did, and used it to write my first programs.
We had several games for it, some of them on tape, but the best ones were the cartridge-based games that plugged into the back. We had a clone of Q*bert that was quite fun.
-EvilMagnus
Did you actually RTFM? Or the summary, perhaps? The article is putting the supposedly astronomical XB360 launch price in perspective as normal.
Information wants to be free.
Entertainment wants to be paid.
You just want to be cheap.
I sit back and read all the posts concerning the pricing options of the 360 and possible future consoles and wonder why this did not occur to the same degree in the last round of releases. I would say that the current state of the economy as compared to the days of the previous releases tells part of the tale. We simply were in better shape in early 2000 and people had more flexible spending cash. Its true that the economy has recovered from the dismal state it was in around 2003, but with rising gas prices and worries about job exporting and the like, people do not feel as at ease with forking over large cash on luxury items. We had all simply hoped that the cost would not increase, since many of us are in far worse economic shape than we were after the great internet boom.
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but check consumer confidence summer 2000 and compare it to now. And without an increase in salaries, any price increase (especially an investment like a game system) can seem overwhelming and unfair.
Can we stop with all the 'Xbox 360 is expensive, but that's okay by me' articles? So what. The bundles are ridiculous. Big deal. Don't buy 'em. The premium/non-core system costs 100 dollars more than the original Xbox, which didn't come with Component cables, a remote, a wireless controller, or a headset. Big deal.
Walk into a Gamestop and preorder an Xbox 360 without any bundling or having to preorder any games if you don't like the online bundles. It's really easy, I promise. I did it on Saturday without a problem. Don't want to put 50 bucks down upfront? Wait until release day and go into Target around 10am.
I don't get why we have to keep pointing out that EB and Gamestop create bundles since they make their money off selling games. They've been creating these lame bundles for years.
I didn't have the VIC20, I had the PET2001; the PET2001 had about 20k RAM if I remember clearly, and that's where I learned to code (well, learned to code BASIC, anyway). However, the PET2001 did not have color, nor the graphics capabilities of the VIC20. The PET2001 was the direct precursor to the C64.
:)
When we got the PET2001, floppy disks were not available. So, lots of tape cassettes... I scoff at people who complain about 15 second load times today.
Telengard, by Avalon Hill, had a load time of about 15 minutes... so I feel your pain
I remember playing Q*bert on the VIC20 at a friend's house, also "Blue Meanies" -- tons of fun.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Actually it does nothing really, the X360 launches at 400$ (if we ignore the core bundle that's just there to say they're selling a system at 300) and retailers add bundles that drive up the price by 100-200$ near launch. Then there are bundles that include every announced game and go for 1000-2000$. Those seem more like jokes than anything. But some people bring them up as if they are the only ones available and want to point out that older systems (when adjusted for inflation) are even more expensive. It's all just one big, stupid what-if scenario because after the initial shortage (or in the right store) the system will go for 400$ and that's it. You'll buy a game for it or keep playing XBox games for a while but for 400$ the XBox 360 itself is yours.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
which is approximately $610 in today's dollars, making it about the same as the Xbox 360.
Stop posting this misinformation. The suggested retail price of the most expensive Xbox 360 package is $399.99, despite what the Microsoft-hating hordes on this site want you to believe. It doesn't cost $610.
Comment of the year
Telengard, by Avalon Hill, had a load time of about 15 minutes... so I feel your pain :)
Longest tape load time I can recall was "Manic Miner" on my c64 - took about 25 minutes to load. The best games were the ones with Invadaload on them - a really neat, light space-invaders clone you could play while the tape was spooling.
Ah, memories!
-EvilMagnus
MSRP and what it will actually cost you are two different things.
Yes, there is some FUD about retail price... but going from experience, there is no way I'll be able to get an XBox 360 at a retail store without buying a bundled package at release... which will probably cost me $600.
It's not MS that will be setting retail price, it's the retailers. And you can bet your sweet A that they'll be forcing bundles on us.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
OK, the winner here has to be the 3DO, launching at like EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS. It would have been a ripoff if it had retailed at 50.
you cannot wait a few weeks/months? you've been waiting all these years... surely you can forego a few more days.
it's only at launch and ALL consoles are way overpriced in the begining, especially due to the artificial scarcity introduced by the manufacturers.
Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
Yeah, I had Pooyan (great name, I know), it took about that I think. Really made me determined to play it well, after waiting that long.
"console computer"? The fuck? The C64 and VIC-20 are both "home computers" - they both primarily hoooked up to TVs, although you could use a monitor, and they both accepted many of the same peripherals.
I didn't say that I found the price unacceptable. My original post just pointed out that the price of the VIC20 at release was similar to the price of the XBox 360 at release, dollars adjusted.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai