FCC Seeks Tech Donations for Katrina Aid

An anonymous reader writes "BoingBoing is reporting on the FCC accepting donations of tech services and equipment: 'Lack of communications systems has been identified as a critical issue holding back aid, missing persons, law enforcement, etc. in crisis areas. FCC personnel are working throughout the weekend to coordinate these efforts with private industry, with wireless technology groups, FEMA, and state governments in Mississippi, Louisiana, etc.' Efforts are being organized through PART-15.ORG."

Comments

CB Radio

[Anonymous Coward]

would be a good start, no licenses required to operate, just plug in and go and they are cheap and have good range, its the citizens band after all

Re:CB Radio

[Anonymous Coward]

I donate the following letters: LOLROTFLZONKSUXWTF

Re:CB Radio

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, sure, that's just what they need. A bunch of untrained, unorganized, and undisciplined people with push-to-talk switches, trying to talk louder than the next guy.

Does anyone else?

[tpgp]

Find it disgusting that emergency aid workers have to beg for money to provide vital equipment to people who are dying?

This in a country that has spent nearly 200 Billion on an unnecessary war in a far off land.

Re:Does anyone else?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, don't forget that $231 million bridge that doesn't go anywhere that the Republican congress approved to be built in Alaska!

...and the "conservatives" whine that the democrats waste money. seriously, wtf?

/votes Libertarian

Re:Does anyone else?

[b3x]

What is more disgusting is the obvious inability for the local and state governments to cope with the disaster.

There are few cities on the planet that are more vulnerable to a relatively frequent (given the geography) natural disaster. A seaside city, below sea level, in a region that is affected by hurricanes almost yearly. Everyone knows this disaster was going to happen, it is impossible to avoid. Contrary to popular belief, there is not a government on this planet that can protect its citizens from nature.

What a government can do is react as quickly as possible to the disaster, and alleviate suffering. However, initial help MUST come from local and state governments. Federal help comes at the request of local governments.

Also, the Democratic Mayor, and Democratic Governor, complaining about the lack of help from the Republican president just reeks. The democrats wonder why they keep losing elections, and it comes down to this: when faced with adversity they complain about the Republicans. People recognize this as inherently weak leadership.

Think about Rudy Giuliani in the days following 9-11, then compare that with Ray Nagin's actions. Consider that New Orleans has prepared for hurricane disasters, and that New Orleans had nearly a week to prepare for the disaster.

Re:Does anyone else?

[Freexe]

Wow, i just read http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/20 05-08-09-our-view_x.htm and it made me laugh, you guys are better at watsing money than our government (UK)

Re:Does anyone else?

[evol262]

Rather than making ad-hominem attacks about Democrats, consider the facts.

New Orleans was not below sea level when they built it. The floodplain kept it above until fairly recently, and all the canals they dug to allow oil traffic allowed much more of it to silt out, bringing it down even further.

Initial help DID come from state and local governments. The local government was essentially obliterated by the scope of the damage, but the police force has done what they can. Martial law was requested long before help arrived. Communications infrastructure is completely gone and it's virtually impossible to coordinate.

I'm glad Ray Nagin is blasting the federal government. At least he's telling it like it is on the ground, which is a perspective you can't get from a flyby in Air Force One. I work for a company that provides real-time weather data. We KNEW there were 210 mph gusts before it hit. It's the worst hurricane of the century, and we were aware of it. Why was federal aid not waiting? FEMA classified a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as the 3rd worst possible disaster. The Pentagon was putting paperwork through days before the hurricane hit. Why was FEMA not more prepared?

Think about New York in the days following 9/11. It was a tragedy, sure, but it was localized to about one city block. If they had leveled an area the size of New Orleans, and made it virtually unhabitable (through flooding/fires/collapse of the subway system/whatever), the reaction there would have been about the same. The fact that somebody has an [R] by their name on TV does not make them infallible, and any politician in New Orleans, regardless of credo, would have been in the same situation as we have right now. They knew approximately 24 hours in advance that a class 4/5 hurricane was going to hit New Orleans. A week is bullshit. Do you think they should evactuate as soon as a tropical depression forms in the Gulf because it -might- hit New Orleans?

Your rhetoric does not a coherent argument make. Not every conservative is stupid, but most stupid people are conservative. -John Stuart Mill. I think you fit the bill. If you don't agree, think before you post next time.

Re:Does anyone else?

[b3x]

i was not attacking the democrats as much as reacting to what i have seen as the left coming out of the woodwork to use this disaster to make a political point. how about the democratic leadership take action instead of conducting interview after interview complaing about the republican federal government.

btw, scolding me for what you thought was an ad-hominen attack, and then ending your speach with just such an attack, was brilliant.

Re:Does anyone else?

[evol262]

Sorry, and the vaunted Republican leadership is doing what? Fly fishing? Seeing plays? They're both at fault. If it were a Democratic president, the Republicans would be doing the same thing and you know it. It's a choice between 2 bad parties. You can't win. Neither one really gives a damn about anything other than staying in office, getting rich, and having a bridge named after them.

I suggest you see the definition of ad-hominem first. You attacked the Democrats, which had nothing to do with the facts. I attacked your arguments (except for the jibe at the end).

Re:Does anyone else?

[twiddlingbits]

Wrong facts...Katrina is the most EXPENSIVE hurrican, NOT the strongest. The strongest recorded was Andrew. 210 MPH gust are pure BS, the MAX winds were 175 and that was offshore, in the eyewall. The storm came ashore as a minimal Cat 4, 210 MPH wind gusts is way into Cat 5 category. New Oreleans has been below sea level for at least 40 years, the levees are that old. I now work in the Homeland Securiy area (private company) and have read the National Disaster Plan and the way it works is this, the Governor has to ASK for Federal assistance from DHS. DHS has no power (without the declaration of a national incident from the President) to take over on it's own. AS for FEMA FEMA isn't in charge any more, they are part of DHS, and recently underwent a lot of changes which may have contributed to the problems. "All politics is local". The mayor is upset and frustrated at the pace of assistance, but as a former NYC police chief said they could have done more to help themselves. New Orleans as a city was given money to prepare for these things by buying comm gear for police (sat radios) that would work w/o radio towers. That was about $15M bucks, and no one has seen a single radio! By shifting ALL the blame to the Feds (I will agree there is some blame) the mayor now has the minds of the people on the failing of the DHS/FEMA and not the ineptitude of his own department (and corruption too..just read the accounts of police looting). The order to evacuate came too late, and too little was done to help. Why didn't the mayor commandeer city and school buses to move people? Why wasn't the SuperDome well stocked with supplies, why was there no list of what hospitals and their critical patient status? I could go on and on. All of these items are listed as planning and prepardness items in the DHS plans which have been published for a couple of years. I think YOU better go read some facts before calling other people stupid. I don't have my plans in front of my but I can point out specific failings on the part of EACH level of Government if you want. Plus you got to realize aid this massive takes time to organize, otherwise it's chaos on top of chaos!! First responders and aid groups could not reach the city due to flooded roads and were stacked up. Actually based on national IQ surveys, intelligence has nothing to do with your politics. A lot of it comes from your parents views!

Re:Does anyone else?

[evol262]

I actually said the worst hurricance, not the strongest. Katrina was Cat5 over the gulf, and maximum sustained winds were 175 MPH with gusting up to 205 to 210, according to the National Hurricane Center and NASA.

Yes, like I said, it's been under sea level since they built the levees (after flooding), but it was not built below sea level. In any case, you can't simply abandon a city of 1,000,000 that routes ~25% of the nations energy because of that.

I've also read the National Disaster Plan (former military), though that was before the creation of DHS. The governor should have asked sooner, but even without an immediate request for aid, I don't see why they weren't prepping like the DoD.

It was a failure on all levels. The NOPD has been rife with corruption for as long as I've been alive, and buying new radios just wasn't on the agenda. That being said, they -did- do the best with what they had when it hit. While corruption and failure to prepare properly (as in the radios, not necessarily the supplies) certainly contributed to the situation, they stepped up to the plate a lot faster than the federal government. The state seems to be impotent.

I don't honestly know why they didn't prepare better. I don't know why he didn't commandeer buses (school buses were probably out of the scope of his authority to take, though). A lot of people didn't expect it to be as bad as it was in NO, and some of it can be attributed to that. It's a failure in every possible way, but my point was that once the scope of the disaster was realized, it took too long.

I don't expect the guard to be waiting at the borders to every state when a hurricane hits, but when it's a Cat5 (as Katrina was until shortly before landfall), they certainly should be. They were for Andrew. It took about a day for troops to make it there. Ft. Polk is a 6 hour drive from NO, and it's the seat of the JROC as well as OpFor. With DoD directives in place, a federal state of disaster should have been declared IMMEDIATELY, like it has been for every other major (and a few minor) hurricane in the last decade, and aid would have been able to make it much faster.

I think the problem is that the buck never stops. Ray Nagin will blame it on the fed, who'll blame it on the LA governor, who'll blame it on FEMA, etc. Somebody's going to have to take the fall for it eventually, and we'll just have to see who. I think Something Awful says it much better than I could...

Re:Does anyone else?

[HowIsMyDriving?]

Can you please state why NOLA did not allow the use of school busses that carry 70k people to school every day for the manditory evacuation? http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/48 0/flpc21109012015 They sure as hell were not under water on Thrusday, Friday, and Saturday. Why can Mississippi even with their death toll, and not manditory evacuations have less casulties? Because they allowed the use of public transperation to take people to shelters. Did this happen in NOLA? No. Did the FEMA response suck? Yes, but it is LA and especially NOLA that is to fault for their problems.

Re:Does anyone else?

[Anonymous Coward]

No. When you piss off the volunteers so that they leave you have not done your job. Yep, that's right there were ham radio operators willing and able with much training ready to help and helping out. The Fema fools told them all to go home. WTF?

Re:Does anyone else?

[Anonymous Coward]

Any links on this?

Re:Does anyone else?

[evol262]

Because school buses are not private property. Neither are Greyhounds. They need appropriate authorization from the companies (be they ISDs or otherwise) that operate them before than can take them. The authorities are not allowed to be lawless even when everybody else is.

Re:Does anyone else?

[drsquare]

Just makes you wonder how America would cope with a nuclear attack, or a tsunami. After just a localised flood an entire city is reduced to third-world status. Anarchy, starvation, disease, rape, police unable to keep control, martial law, helicopters being attacked, it's something you'd expect in Baghdad or Afghanistan.

And the idea of armed gangs going round stealing, looting and raping, shooting at helicopters and the police, just shows what a disgrace the 2nd Ammendment is.

Re:Does anyone else?

[ZosX]

First of all, regardless of the response by New Orleans, which I might add was the ONLY response for DAYS after the event, the President as you have so put it, could have ordered a state of emergency for the affected areas and ordered at least military aid. The mayor of New Orleans tried his best with limited resources in the wake of the worst natural disaster in our history. Even if the mayor sat back and did nothing, which you are almost alleging, the President could have utilized his executive powers to send in troops and supplies and ordered the DHS to cooperate. The federal response is to take all of the blame for this catastrophe because they were in at least a situation to do something and yet they did very little at first. I mean come on. Pull your freakin head out of your ass. We all watched the news reports from people in trenches for days stating the horrible conditions at the Superdome and the Convention Center, and yet the director of FEMA declares on THURSDAY that he finally has learned of the convention center crisis even though the media had been reporting on it for at least a day or two before. All they had to do was watch the news to learn what was going on, and yet they claim they didn't know?!?

Secondly, the police force was massively overwhelmed. To declare that the police force is corrupt is disengenuous at best. There are officers down there that worked for DAYS STRAIGHT to try and keep law and order, all the while under constant gunfire from all over. They looted because they needed supplies and guns. They didn't even have anything other than their issued .40 glocks. They had to loot to find weapons and supplies to keep themselves ALIVE.

Trolls like you need to go fucking watch the news and read the reports of the terrible conditions both the police and the people have been living through in the last week. To put the blame on the mayor and the police when they were so overwhelmed with the scale of the disaster is a disgrace to the men who have spent many sleepless days trying miserably to keep things under control in a place that quickly became literally hell on earth.

The media will not be kind to the President or to FEMA for their total lack of response when it was needed most. Its too little, too late. The President himself has more or less admitted to how terrible the "results" were. The real tragedy is how little FEMA and the US military actually did in the wake of Katrina. Don't tell me about the lack of fucking roads too. The military could have easily done air drops. Its not like they didn't see this coming, what, fucking days before the event. Fuck even berlin got airdrops of food and supplies.

Jesus Christ. Tsunami victims had airdrops of food, water, and supplies a mere 2 days after the event. At the convention center and the superdome those people saw virtually nothing from the federal government for 4 days or so, while children were dying (and being raped). Get a fucking clue. The director of emergency management in New Orleans didn't even have the courtesy of a call from FEMA for at least 3 days after the event. But its all his fault that he didn't have the MASSIVE resources needed to save these people right?

"Its all the mayors fault" my fucking godammned ass. This is a national disgrace of the worst caliber. My guess is that the response would have been a lot swifter if they weren't all mostly poor black americans, but that is just speculation, though a growing number of black politicians are all crying foul now. The went as far as to compare the conditions to a slave ship, and what is sad is that they aren't too far from the truth. Those people lived in conditions like a slave ship for the last week. Don't forget that many governments, such as Canada's, have pledged their full support and yet (at least as of the other day) we never even bothered to ask.

The victims of a tsunami in a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY had better aid relief than the victims of a MAJOR CITY in THE RICHEST NATION IN THE WORLD. Shows you how much we care for our (black) people.

People like you make me fucking sick.

Re:Does anyone else?

[Anonymous Coward]

localised flood? If you consider 90,000 sq. miles to be localised, I'd like to see your idea of widespread. Three states were affected, not just New Orleans.

Re:Does anyone else?

[twiddlingbits]

People like you make my fucking sick really says a LOT about your character. You got problems, when you can't discuss something without resorting to ad hominen attacks on others. So, go back to playing whatever game you call life and leave the important discussions to those who a)know something about how things work in Disasters and b) can talk about it reasonably. I see that you also played the race card, how intelligent. For all you know I may be a minority too. If all you want is your scream and shout and blame others to get a few minutes of attention like JJ and LF, I suggest you go elsewhere. Folks like you are NOT a help to your race, in fact that are not a help to the HUMAN race. There are a huge number of holes in your arguments but I won't waste my keystrokes on you. Come back when you can deal in facts not emotions.

Re:Does anyone else?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does every topic end up in the shameless exploitation of the victims of hurricane Katrina by using their plight as a political, ant-war platform?

Well, I will tell you. Because people who have nothing to say, say it on slashdot.

Re:Does anyone else?

[ZosX]

First of all, you set me to a foe. Fair enough. Secondly I must apologize for my over emotional response. I don't think I need to explain that it has been an emotional time for Americans, what with all the stories of rape and death in the wake. I don't really honestly know if the response would have been any better or different if it were to be a bunch of white folks down there, so please forgive my use of race as an issue. Regardless of their race, what happened to those people is a tragedy of the highest degree. A LOT of things could have been handled better indeed, from the Mayor, the the Governor, to FEMA, to the President. The fact remains that 5 days after the worst national disaster in US history, people were still not being evacuated. They finally started evacuating the convention center this morning. The stories that are coming from those people now are absolutely horrific and it makes me feel awfully sad that we would let people go on in conditions for that long. I also regret my statement against you as you indeed seem like a reasonable human being, which is something that cannot be said of a lot of people aparantly, and I do appreciate the fact that you at least responded on valid points about my emotional behavior. I may disagree with what you have to say (and there is truth to what you say as well, mind you), but your reply should get some respect.

Again, please at least accept an apology for me, as you are right that bickering and bringing a great deal of negative emotions to the table can and will solve nothing. That's pretty much all I can say. Take it or leave it.

Re:Does anyone else?

[0x0000]

I suggest you go elsewhere. Folks like you are NOT a help to your race, in fact that are not a help to the HUMAN race.

That about sums up your position, doesn't it: Somebody doesn't do as you demand, doesn't conform to your idea of How It Should Be you relegate them to ... where? You think you own /., or something ? You think you speak for the human race? You think the individual you are responding to should ... what, just die? Sounds like you're right in there with the people described by the woman yelling/crying "they just don't care about us" outside the NOLA convention center as seen on TV.

Come back when you can deal in facts not emotions.

Fuck you. Piss off and die, inhuman loser. You piece of shit. You are scum of the worst sort. Emotion is the very essence of humanity. Therefore, you're own argument is illogical. It's shit. Just like you.

And who are you to try to ban emotion in a public forum, anyway? Fuck you. Fuck off and die. I really mean that. I think the world would be a better place if you did. You really don't qualify as human in any operational sense of the word.

And no, I am not the poster you were responding to. I would, though, prefer that posters content on /. than your pseudo-intellectional baiting, whining, bullshit.

Re:Does anyone else?

[twiddlingbits]

Ad hominen attacks only serve to prove you can't handle a content based debate on the issues. About all I can say is your User ID is pretty much your IQ.

Re:Does anyone else?

[0x0000]

Ad hominen attacks only serve to prove you can't handle a content based debate on the issues.

Again your mechanist pseudo-logic circles back upon itself. Your own ad hominem attack proves you can provide no such debate.

About all I can say is your User ID is pretty much your IQ.

140863? Hmmm. Isn't that rather high for an IQ? Perhaps you were refering to my username, but I'll let that go for the time being...

To summarize: See my previous response; you add nothing to the discussion, and should eliminate yourself from this and all others. Piss off, fuckwit. Fuck off and die. Etc.

Obscure and secret taxes

[ErikPeterson]

Why dont they just use one of the MANY assinine fees or taxes they have hidden into there many odd taxes and fee schedules and give that to the victems....

Re:Obscure and secret taxes

[ErikPeterson]

http://www.cnn.com/rssclick/2005/US/09/03/katrina. airmen/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

A Good start! Bravo!

Where's the HAM operators?

[Cheeze]

I thought the HAM operators would come in handy during times like these. Where they be?

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[gila_monster]

They are setting up shop in Missippi, the Florida panhandle, and other surrounding areas. Unfortunately, there are still issues and logistics problems involved in getting operators to NOLA itself. The area needs to be secured first. One ham I know was specifically told not to enter the area with his truck carrying 200 gallons of fuel -- the fear was that he would be waylaid as he drove through the city.

gm

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[backslashdot]

The public, corporations, and FCC have been hanging out like vultures after ham radio operators for some time. Greedy for a tiny slice of spectrum. Yum.

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[Anonymous Coward]

The ham operators were told to wait http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/09/01/1/?nc= 1 >unless they were totally self suffcient. They sign up to be deployed later http://www.eham.net/articles/11874

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to know how the ham radio ops are helping in this disaster, check out http://www.arrl.org/. US hams are very well organized to help with communications during these event, and we are helping out with this one as well!

David on4bds

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are we? You can find us at any of these frequencies (below). By the way, where are *you*?

I have to go now. I just received another block of 100 names and addresses to notify next of kin, and will pay my long-distance charges to call them to let them know their aunt / uncle / parents / kids / brother is alive and well.

I'll take care of that - you rest.

AMATEUR HIGH-FREQUENCY GULF COAST HURRICANE NETS

03845.0 LSB Gulf Coast West Hurricane
03862.5 LSB Mississippi Section Traffic
03873.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
03873.0 LSB Louisiana ARES Emergency (night)
03873.0 LSB Texas ARES Emergency (night)
03873.0 LSB Mississippi ARES Emergency
03910.0 LSB Mississippi ARES
03910.0 LSB Louisiana Traffic
03923.0 LSB Mississippi ARES
03925.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
03925.0 LSB Louisiana Emergency (altn)
03935.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
03935.0 LSB Louisiana ARES (health & welfare)
03935.0 LSB Texas ARES (health & welfare)
03935.0 LSB Mississippi ARES (health & welfare)
03935.0 LSB Alabama Emergency
03940.0 LSB Southern Florida Emergency
03950.0 LSB Northern Florida Emergency
03955.0 LSB South Texas Emergency
03965.0 LSB Alabama Emergency (altn)
03967.0 LSB Gulf Coast (outgoing traffic)
03975.0 LSB Texas RACES
03993.5 LSB Gulf Coast (health & welfare)
03995.0 LSB Gulf Coast Wx

07225.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
07235.0 LSB Louisiana Emergency
07235.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
07235.0 LSB Louisiana Emergency
07240.0 LSB American Red Cross US Gulf Coast Disaster
07240.0 LSB Texas Emergency
07243.0 LSB Alabama Emergency
07245.0 LSB Southern Louisiana
07248.0 LSB Texas RACES
07250.0 LSB Texas Emergency
07260.0 LSB Gulf Coast West Hurricane
07264.0 LSB Gulf Coast (health & welfare)
07265.0 LSB Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio (SATERN) (altn)
07273.0 LSB Texas ARES (altn)
07280.0 LSB NTS Region 5
07280.0 LSB Louisiana Emergency (altn)
07283.0 LSB Gulf Coast (outgoing only)
07285.0 LSB West Gulf ARES Emergency (day)
07285.0 LSB Louisiana ARES Emergency (day)
07285.0 LSB Mississippi ARES Emergency
07285.0 LSB Texas ARES Emergency (day)
07290.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
07290.0 LSB Gulf Coast Wx
07290.0 LSB Texas ARES (health & welfare)
07290.0 LSB Louisiana ARES (health & welfare) (day)
07290.0 LSB Texas ARES (health & welfare)
07290.0 LSB Mississippi ARES (health & welfare)

14265.0 USB Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio (SATERN) (health & welfare) 14300.0 USB Intercontinental Traffic
14300.0 USB Maritime Mobile Service
14303.0 USB International Assistance & Traffic
14313.0 USB Intercontinental Traffic (altn)
14313.0 USB Maritime Mobile Service (altn)
14316.0 USB Health & Welfare
14320.0 USB Health & Welfare
14325.0 USB Hurricane Watch (Amateur-to-National Hurricane Center)
14340.0 USB Louisiana (1900)

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Try doing a little research:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/08/30/1/?nc= 1

The ARRL is also asking for volunteers on thier website. Thier are hams operationg from Slidell, and there was also a active station on top of LSU hospital. There has not been a bigger effort because it's incredibly HARD to get around in New Orleans right now. The hams ARE there, have been there and are proceeding to setup operations. Remember, it even took the military sometime to assemble staff and supplies necessary for the effort.

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly, the role and importance of ham radio as an emergency communications tool has been downplayed in recent years. This is due in part to the pervasiveness of "integrated" public-service radio networks, the ubiquitous cell phone and the Internet.

All of which have proven largely ineffective as a means of communication for an emergency of this scope. For the most part, dedicated systems are highly inflexible; this is especially true of cell-phone networks. Lack of long-duration backup power is another hobble...

During several recent disasters, ham-radio ops have shown up to help...and were turned away by agencies purported to have a "handle" on the situation. They're the ones being "handled" this time around. New Orleans should serve as a wake-up call to some agencies about that 'old, outdated technology' and just how important it really is when the chips are down.

The scary thing about this whole event is the degree of disconnection at a regional level. Were something really, really big to happen to this country, IMHO we are well and truly fscked.

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're quietly providing emergency communications services now. Do you think that if they aren't on CNN or FOX all day with a mike pushed in their face the job isn't getting done? Wake UP

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[Snorpus]

The role of amateur radio operators in disasters is to provide communications services to the various relief agencies (Red Cross, Salvation Army, Local Emergency Groups, FEMA, etc.). We do not go in as a separate organization, but rather to assist those who have the training and expertise in relief operations. (Our expertise is communications.)

So only occasionally will ham radio be noted specifically... but every time you see a Red Cross van or Salvation Army truck, there likely is a ham as part of that team, providing comm's.

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[Anonymous Coward]

I expect by "waylaid" you mean robbed and possibly killed. Lets remember we're talking about armies of scumbags taking advantage of the closest thing we've seen to postapocalyptic urban areas in the US. Makes it difficult to lend a helping hand.

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[Anonymous Coward]

While we're at it, let's recall how people said, very recently, that ham radio didn't need clear frequencies on the HF bands, and that ham radio wasn't needed during disasters. Ask your congress critters to vote down broadband over powerlines when it is interfering with licensed operators on many frequencies.
While I know some hams are quite active in the relief efforts, MANY more have been told NOT to go to the disaster area unless coordinated through our amateur radio emergency service. Lots of areas are prohibited to ANYONE, so volunteer communicators have to get assigned not only where they will do good, but also so they don't become additional burdens.
Also, when people say "communications" are a problem, consider that EVERY disaster I've been involved in has, in the after reports, listed "communications" as one, if not the, major problem. However, often it means that one group refuses to speak frankly with another. Or one group considers themselves in charge and won't talk with others. Or that the disaster drills were of too small a scope to even know who they need to communicate with in large disasters.
  During disasters, everyone's tensions rise, and people need to be treated with kindness, despite the fact that their behavior might be obnoxious. (With the exception of those shooting others, or stealing supplies that are not needed by them to live...of course that starts the consideration of what people were like BEFORE the disaster, and why. New Orleans had been a high crime city. Unfortunately, it appears the crime wasn't reduced in this case.)
I applaud those who are helping directly, and indirectly, and those who also help with good ideas.

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[JHDrexler]

Hey Dude, if you can get me a list of people to call then I will donate the phone time to call them.

If I don't confirm receipt, then I didn't it.

JHDrexler

Re:Where's the HAM operators?

[Anonymous Coward]

The starving people in N.O. ate them. Mmmmmmm...ham.

Please

[Timesprout]

waterproof linux distos only.

Re:Please

[lamp540]

ROFL

Where does the money go?

[elucido]

Can we depend on the federal government? Should we donate or just let the private sector handle it?

Re:Where does the money go?

[Timesprout]

Lets the private sector help people? What sort of drugs are you taking exactly.

Re:Where does the money go?

[Nuclear Elephant]

Can we depend on the federal government?

No. Next Question?

Most of the agencies assisting these past five days have been the private organizations - churches, relief organizations, etc. Many organizations (such as Feed the Hungry) forewent administrative fees as well and are directing 100% of all donations directly to the effort. Any government can only throw money and manpower at a situation like this - it's the private organizations that get down and help on a personal level.

Re:Where does the money go?

[strcmp]

Well, Bush has already admitted that the government response was too slow, so you can take that for what it's worth.

Disgusted

[manuelpl]

While I'm for helping the fellow person. I am disgusted with how much money in taxes we pay , in how are country is suppose to be so great, and over here we have the strongest goverment in the world asking for donations , f 'n handouts. This is event has made me very shameful of our Goverment leaders.

Re:Disgusted

[Anonymous Coward]

When I tally it up I tithe more to government than I do for rent and transportation combined. In that context it is a little hard for me to accept that the government does not have the resources to handle a national disaster like this.

Did I contribute some to the ARC, yes, but not that much really.

paging Dick Cheney

[Anonymous Coward]

where the fuck is Dick Cheney ?
oh yeah probably counting his loot

Re:paging Dick Cheney

[evol262]

Cheney no longer has stock in Halliburton. Seriously, though, I haven't seen Cheney since the campaign.

Re:paging Dick Cheney

[Homology]

Cheney no longer has stock in Halliburton. Seriously, though, I haven't seen Cheney since the campaign.

He is too busy looting Iraq.

Re:paging Dick Cheney

[PocketPick]

Cheney no longer has stock in Halliburton

Not true. Cheney has stock options, but thier unexercied. Likewise, he has defered compensation which he likely will reap upon completion of the second term.

Re:paging Dick Cheney

[evol262]

I dislike the administration as much as the next guy, but Cheney has nothing invested in the way, financially. Halliburton is getting an assload of money without having to bid for contracts like everybody else, but Cheney hasn't gotten the kickbacks (yet). It's very possible that he'll just go back to Halliburton when he gets out of the government and get a giant bonus, but it's not happening now.

Re:paging Dick Cheney

[evol262]

The deferred compensation is his salary. They spread it out over a few years to avoid taxes. I should have said, Cheney is not making any money off of his stock options. It's true that he still has stock that expires in 2007, but all after-tax proceeds are forfeit while he's in office.

Re:paging Dick Cheney

[Anonymous Coward]

So what? If the guy can make a few dollars, let him do so.

Halliburton is important to the growth and stability of our military and country. That's why Cheney deserves the VP job, and why you don't.

Re:paging Dick Cheney

[Anonymous Coward]

The phrase "conflict of interest" means absolutely nothing to you, right?

MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone trying to compare an overseas war that will prevent attacks on the US in the future to a natural disaster on the scale of new orleans (big as it might look it's small potatoes compared to 9/11) is just a retard looking to score political points.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[evol262]

Why is it small potatoes exactly? The cost in human lives and property damage is far higher, and the situation is worse in every measurable way. The war didn't prevent any attacks on the US. I'm sure Saddamn would have loved to take a crack at us, if he could, but he was an extremely secular leader (not associated with the religious nutjobs in Al-Qaeda) who would not have jeopardized his situation through a terrorist attack on the US. SCUDs didn't have nearly the range to hit the US. They could barely hit Israel. Afghanistan is a warzone with no infrastructure (we destroyed it all) largely controlled by regional warlords. Neither Afghanistan nor Iraq had the navy or airpower to attack the US. Period. All we're doing is giving foreign nationals (most of the terrorists in either country are from Saudi, Pakistan, and other countries) experience fighting that they would have gotten in Chechnya before so they can hit us harder next time once they know our tactics. Stop posting bullshit.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

> big as it might look it's small potatoes compared to 9/11

Care to explain why this is "small potatoes" ?

9/11 was two towers getting down in flames. Not much could have been done before. Not much to do after that.

Katrina was a disaster that everybody knew would happend some day. It took days to occur. After that you have 200K people to move out of a city.

The city is roughly destroyed. It is not two towers down, it is a WHOLE city. It is not some office space that will be missing, it is more than 1 million people homeless.

The truth is, in term of tragedy, katrina is much bigger potatoes than the over-hyped 911. It should that US of A is in bad hands. It should that we are not better than a third world coutry. When seeing how politician can mishandle that so much, one can only fear how badly mishandled iraq is.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[TummyX]

Jesus you're retarded


The war didn't prevent any attacks on the US.


And you know that how?


I'm sure Saddamn would have loved to take a crack at us, if he could, but he was an extremely secular leader (not associated with the religious nutjobs in Al-Qaeda) who would not have jeopardized his situation through a terrorist attack on the US. SCUDs didn't have nearly the range to hit the US. They could barely hit Israel.


And he funded suicided bombers in Israel.


Afghanistan is a warzone with no infrastructure (we destroyed it all) largely controlled by regional warlords.


Are you retarded or what? There is *MORE* infrastructure in Afghanistan than there were before the recent war. Afghanistan has been fucked by decades of war and now they are finally on the path to prospoerity. Stop reading the NY times.


Neither Afghanistan nor Iraq had the navy or airpower to attack the US.


Yeah, like that's how they would choose to attack the US. Has nothing to do with them funding and homing the terrorists.


Period. All we're doing is giving foreign nationals (most of the terrorists in either country are from Saudi, Pakistan, and other countries) experience fighting that they would have gotten in Chechnya before so they can hit us harder next time once they know our tactics.


Or maybe the YOU are learning their tactics? I mean, if they attack the US they aren't going to be attacking in a conventional way and therefore aren't going to be confronted by an ARMY force are they?

On the other hand, the military are understanding how the extremists work and at the same time are seeding liberty in countries which could certainly benefit from it. Look at Afghanistan for an example. They've made amazing progress in such a short amount of time and many countries (and the UN) are ensuring success. Admittedly Iraq is not as successful (yet).


Stop posting bullshit.


After you.

make a difference and stop bullshitting

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, the situation is different. But this is the biggest loss of life in the past 100 years. Calling it small potatoes is ignorant.

9/11 was quite a bit different, and I agree that they can't be compared. NYC was 100% surprised but remained occupied. There were few refugees, and it was a pro-active attack.

Obviously, New Orleans is different. Many people were able to evacuate given the 24+ hour warning. After the event, people thought that everything was OK until later. Since the storm, many people lost everything making them permanent refugees.

But can we compare this situation with Iraq? You bet. Baghdad is a big city that completely lost it's stability. Parallels can be drawn. Perhaps some lessons will be learned about making a large city stable after trauma.

We should learn from the differences and similarities of these events, not ignore them.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

The war didn't prevent any attacks on the US.

That's funny. I don't see any attacks on the US since we put iraq & afghanistan terrorists out of business. I guess you can come up with a list of attacks that happened, and were not prevented by bush's preemptive strikes?

you can't?

Then you clearly don't know what your talking about

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[evol262]

And you know that how?

Because they did not have the ability to do so. If Iraq had been able to strike the United States, they certainly would have done so in the 10 years between wars. As stated, Saddam was an incredibly secular leader. He only really cared about staying rich and surviving unharassed. He would not have jeopardized it to attack the US.

And he funded suicided bombers in Israel.

Yes, he paid the families of the suicide bombers who attacked in Israel. Everybody in the Middle East hates the Israelis, even westernized countries like Lebanon, and it's not a secret. He paid the families posthumously, though. It wasn't as if he was recruiting them. He wasn't a great guy by any means, but terrorist leader he wasn't.

Yeah, like that's how they would choose to attack the US. Has nothing to do with them funding and homing the terrorists.

See above. bin Laden did do that in Afghanistan, but he could just as easily be doing it now from Chechnya, Pakistan, or wherever the hell he is. The Taliban wasn't really involved in any manner other than getting paid to look the other way.

I said they were unable to attack the US through military means because that's precisely the threat that our government offered and so many people seemed to believe. Remember, though, everybody looks out for number one. The government leaders in Afghanistan and Iraq had no more desire to get ousted, impoverished, and possibly killed than any other leaders anywhere. National governments do not attack the United States as it stands right now. We didn't even catch the Al-Qaeda leaders from Afghanistan, they just moved. Why do you think we're any safer now?

Or maybe the YOU are learning their tactics? I mean, if they attack the US they aren't going to be attacking in a conventional way and therefore aren't going to be confronted by an ARMY force are they?

On the other hand, the military are understanding how the extremists work and at the same time are seeding liberty in countries which could certainly benefit from it. Look at Afghanistan for an example. They've made amazing progress in such a short amount of time and many countries (and the UN) are ensuring success. Admittedly Iraq is not as successful (yet).

Yes, WE are learning their tactics. They like to ambush us in the hills. Couldn't we have learned that from any insurgency or guerilla operations? Make a case study out of what happened to the Soviets in the 80s in Afghanistan. Same effect. All we're learning is that they're very hard to root out and they like to shoot at us. On the other hand, they are learning how we operate, what equipment we use, what tactics we use, when we use airpower, and what we have at our disposal.

Yes, we're seeding liberty all right. We are doing good things in Afghanistan, no doubt. Women have a lot more rights, and there is more infrastructure (though a lot of that is the Caspian Oil Pipeline). Unfortunately, the last estimates I heard from my friends in the military (who were deployed there) were that we maintained a functional control zone of 100m around Kabul. The rest is provisional warlords and druglords.

Try this site instead it has less propaganda

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[grumbel]

#### The war didn't prevent any attacks on the US.
### And you know that how?

Maybe you have missed the fact that the US invaded the country, searched it for month and found absolutly no evidance of any plans to attack to US?

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[evol262]

Did you see any terrorist attacks before we invaded them (9/11 and the attacks in '93 (which were planned stateside) aside)?

You didn't?

It's a logical fallacy to assume that because we invaded, that's what stopped the attacks. It's 8-10 years between attacks, and it almost certainly isn't over yet. Tell me that in 10 years, and I'll accede to you being right.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[TummyX]

Maybe you have missed the fact that the US invaded the country, searched it for month and found absolutly no evidance of any plans to attack to US?


I didn't mean preventing attacks from Saddam himself. Other attacks by extremists could possibility (I don't know for sure) have been avoided because they are now busy in Iraq and in the long term, middle-east stability and liberisation will lead to less tolerance for terror.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[TummyX]

Because they did not have the ability to do so. If Iraq had been able to strike the United States, they certainly would have done so in the 10 years between wars. As stated, Saddam was an incredibly secular leader. He only really cared about staying rich and surviving unharassed. He would not have jeopardized it to attack the US.


You missed my point. The Iraq war wasn't needed to prevent a conventional attack on America by the Saddam's government but there are many ways that it could have prevented attacks on the US. Keeping the terrorists busy, showing the liberals middle-east that the US is serious about liberisation of the middle east. In the long term, stability in the middle east will mean less attacks. In the short term, the terrorists are busy in Iraq.


See above. bin Laden did do that in Afghanistan, but he could just as easily be doing it now from Chechnya, Pakistan, or wherever the hell he is. The Taliban wasn't really involved in any manner other than getting paid to look the other way.


You can't seriously believe that do you? The Taliban have a fundamentalist islamic vision and so does bin laden. I really don't see how you can think they were just "paid" to look the other way.


Yes, WE are learning their tactics. They like to ambush us in the hills. Couldn't we have learned that from any insurgency or guerilla operations? Make a case study out of what happened to the Soviets in the 80s in Afghanistan. Same effect. All we're learning is that they're very hard to root out and they like to shoot at us. On the other hand, they are learning how we operate, what equipment we use, what tactics we use, when we use airpower, and what we have at our disposal.


The soviet situation was different. Firstly, they didn't succeed in installing a government and getting 9 out of 10 eligible votes to vote and secondly they didn't have another superpower (america) helping the other side.


Yes, we're seeding liberty all right. We are doing good things in Afghanistan, no doubt. Women have a lot more rights, and there is more infrastructure (though a lot of that is the Caspian Oil Pipeline). Unfortunately, the last estimates I heard from my friends in the military (who were deployed there) were that we maintained a functional control zone of 100m around Kabul. The rest is provisional warlords and druglords.


I agree that it isn't ideal but good things take time. The situation under the taliban wasn't much better (warlords, drug lords etc). The taliban had "methods" for dealing with drugs which "liberal" governments wouldn't agree with.

Anyway, I just can't understand people who run around claming that afghanistan has been destroyed by the US and that they're worse off. I really can't.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[evol262]

You missed my point. The Iraq war wasn't needed to prevent a conventional attack on America by the Saddam's government but there are many ways that it could have prevented attacks on the US. Keeping the terrorists busy, showing the liberals middle-east that the US is serious about liberisation of the middle east. In the long term, stability in the middle east will mean less attacks. In the short term, the terrorists are busy in Iraq.

Yes, the terrorists are busy, for the short term . That's the worry. Previously, they were sent to Chechnya or another war zone to get experience. Very few of the insurgents in Iraq are actually Iraqi nationals. I fear what we're doing is training them to fight us in a few years, and training them to hate us. Countries over there (which are far from liberal, Lebanon aside) don't want us sticking our nose in from across the world.

If we were serious about the 'liberation' of the Middle East, we should have started a long time ago. Israel should not have been allowed to hold the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula decades after treaty. Saudi Arabia is one of the most autocratic, restrictive countries on Earth. They're our 2nd closest ally (after Israel) in the Middle East. Why didn't we stop Mbutu, or Pol Pot, or the genocide in the Sudan? We're showing we care about our interests. I can't honestly say why we're there (not for the oil, as they certainly would have expected almost total loss of the oil fields from the first war), but it's not for liberation.

You can't seriously believe that do you? The Taliban have a fundamentalist islamic vision and so does bin laden. I really don't see how you can think they were just "paid" to look the other way.

We actually have a fairly good picture of the organization. Similar hijackings were planned in the late 90s (stopped in the Phillipines before they happened). We have a good idea of the chain of command. The Taliban was not involved in planning. They were superfluous for funding, since bin Laden is independently wealthy, and the money trail doesn't lead to them anyway. Taliban troops may have assisted training camps, but they weren't involved in direct action.

The soviet situation was different. Firstly, they didn't succeed in installing a government and getting 9 out of 10 eligible votes to vote and secondly they didn't have another superpower (america) helping the other side.

Perhaps you need to review what happened with the Soviets. They did install a government, though there was no voting. They fought Mujahideen rebels, much as we are today. They didn't control much outside of Kabul, much as we are today. The big difference is that we DON'T have another superpower (the USSR was a superpower at the time, but I'll assume you made a typo and meant 'did' instead of 'didn't') supporting the other side (as we did, supporting the rebels against the Soviets).

I agree that it isn't ideal but good things take time. The situation under the taliban wasn't much better (warlords, drug lords etc). The taliban had "methods" for dealing with drugs which "liberal" governments wouldn't agree with.

Anyway, I just can't understand people who run around claming that afghanistan has been destroyed by the US and that they're worse off. I really can't.

I didn't say things are worse than they were, I said they don't have much infrastructure (we bombed out the railways and roads, which are still largely in ruins). Things are better than they were, but the US populace as a whole doesn't have much patience for nationbuilding, and I have a feeling we're going to end up pulling out before we stablize the region. At some point, and probably soon, we'll get sick of seeing casualty reports from rebels that just don't seem to go away and pull out. That'll leave them in the same place they were in before we got there.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_terrorist_b ombing http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3512748.st m http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659093.stm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorist_in cidents_in_2001 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorist_in cidents_in_2002 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorist_in cidents_in_2003 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorist_in cidents_in_2004 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorist_in cidents_in_2005

theres been 0 attacks on america since 2001, but there attacking your allies there not dead there not captured there still roaming about in the middle east and asia,europe and most probley the americas. they would be stupid to attack america now. they waited almost 10 years to attack the twin towers the second time.

so just because america is attacking iraq and afganistan doesnt mean you actuly won any wars.

you just pissed off more people,

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[TummyX]

I fear what we're doing is training them to fight us in a few years, and training them to hate us.
Countries over there (which are far from liberal, Lebanon aside) don't want us sticking our nose in from across the world.


The Iraqis are upset but clearly forward looking enough to understand the potential gains for their society. It is you, afterall, who admits that most of the i"insurgents" aren't actually Iraqis.


If we were serious about the 'liberation' of the Middle East, we should have started a long time ago.

US Government changes every 4-8 years. You know where I'm heading with this...


Israel should not have been allowed to hold the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula decades after treaty.


Which treaty are you talking about? Israel pulled out of the Sinai after their signed a treaty with Egypt. The Golan heights was being used to fire onto Israeli farms. Considering their neighbour's religous hatred of jews, I'd keep it too...

May I remind you that it was Jordan, Syria and Egypt who attacked Israel in 67?


Saudi Arabia is one of the most autocratic, restrictive countries on Earth. They're our 2nd closest ally (after Israel) in the Middle East.


mostly true


Why didn't we stop Mbutu, or Pol Pot, or the genocide in the Sudan?


Because the successful administrations pussy footed around after vietnam.


We're showing we care about our interests. I can't honestly say why we're there (not for the oil, as they certainly would have expected almost total loss of the oil fields from the first war), but it's not for liberation.


I don't believe libertation is *the only reason*. Countries *should* work in their own interests. It was never in the interests of the US to directly liberalise the middle-east *UNTIL* 9/11 when they(or bush or whatever) clicked onto the idea that it would be in the best interests of the US to make the middle-east more stable and less likely to breed terrorism and hatred of America. Those things take time tho (something half the US population can't accept).

Remember, for years the US has invited middle-eastern students to study at US universities (etc). The US also has policies of diversification of the population and government agencies like US AID are designed to help developing countries help themselves. The american way of thinking (individual responsibility, state indepedence etc etc) is different much of the non-western world but, IMHO, it works rather well.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[evol262]

It took Israel 3 years to pull out of the Sinai after the peace treaty was signed, and they had occupied it for 9 years.

You can lead a man to water, but you can't make him drink. I don't think that installing a democratic government in Iraq is going to change the situation there at all. If they get fed up, they'll demand a change, and better their society (Lebanon, happened in Iran during the last election). I don't think it will make the region more stable, nor less likely to breed terrorism. We invaded a country halfway around the globe for no discernable reason (to them), killed civilians (500 LB precision bombs dropped on hideouts across the street from schools/hospitals still damage them), and we were partly dictating the terms of their constitution.

Hatred of the US in the region won't disappear until we're more magnanimous. US helicopters are used to strafe crowds in Gaza, for instance. Until we give the countries in the region an equal footing (i.e. not just blanket support of Israel), it won't get better. If there's one thing that won't change there, it's their hatred of the Jews. If ANY other country had attacked a US ship in international waters, it would have been war. If any other country had threatened to bomb a nuclear reactor in a foreign country and assassinate it's leaders we would have been championing a Security Council resolution. If any other country had allowed its troops to ban the Red Cross and run over US citizens with main battle tanks, there would have been embargos. If any other country had perpetrated rocket attacks from Apaches in front of a mosque against a man in a wheelchair surrounded by children, if any other country were building a new Berlin wall, if any other country were...

See where I'm going with this?

I have no beef with Israel personally (besides the human rights violations), but it's clear favoritism to one country in the region from the world's only remaining superpower (until China and the EU come into their own). THIS is why they hate us. Relations in the Middle East were fine before all this crap.

That being said, I feel a bit as if the war is all a show. Everyone's focused on it while they gut the EPA, federal funding for public schools, the library system, and anything else they can. They have an agenda, and they have all the wrong people in all the wrong places (why is a former mining company executive the Undersecretary of the Interior for mining?). The tax rebates W gave out back in 2002? (whenever Gray Davis got ejected) could have balanced the budget of every state (every state had a defecit, and only Connecticut is not required by their constitution to balance it) and had money leftover. Instead every state froze wages, or cut healthcare for the poor, or funding for schools, as well as raising taxes. I realize the state and federal governments are seperate entities, but it should have been different.

My $.02.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[UserGoogol]

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
          [Homer thinks about this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

RIAA donations... anyone ?

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems that there is a quite a bit of donations coming from various corporations, but I haven't noticed any http://www.riaa.com/RIAA contributions. I think that they could spare few bucks from the "frivulous suit campaign".

Re:RIAA donations... anyone ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Today the RIAA announced it will donate 100,000 CDs of such popular artists as Whitney Houston, Celine Dion and David Hasselhof.
They are writing down those CDs at their full market value for tax purposes.

This is an adbication of responsibility

[Baldrson]

The problem is much bigger than volunteers can handle. This is not a tribal crisis it is a Federal emergency. Mobilization requires money and I don't see the money. The Feds certainly have exercised the privilege of collecting enough money supposedly for the responsibility to use it to solve domestic problems such as this.

The solution is simple:

Volunteerism should be directed toward getting various vendors of telecom equipment to agree on a set of rules that they consider fair for awarding a bounty for telecommunications area coverage and then sign a petition to the FCC or preferably FEMA which would administer the FCC's role, presenting the rules.

For example, let's say there's a tent city with estimated population 10,000. There is an estimated need for 1% peak load or 100 virtual circuits each capable of carrying a SIP call. FEMA pays $1000/day for each circuit. Right-of-ways are rented from FEMA with the highest bidder gaining control of the right-of-way for some minimum lease period, say a week. In the case of 802.11* this would mean spectrum allocation would operate as "land rent" system.

How fast would those 100 SIP circuits go up?

Re:This is an adbication of responsibility

[tuggy]

From the article:
Lack of communications systems has been identified as a critical issue holding back aid, missing persons, law enforcement, etc. in crisis areas.

From your post:
Volunteerism should be directed toward getting various vendors of telecom equipment to agree on a set of rules(...)

You see, when you have a critical issue such as this, which is holding back aid in crisis areas you can not just wait for agreements and meetings between vendors/corporations or whatever... it just takes them too much time to move their asses and get some work done.

Re:This is an adbication of responsibility

[Baldrson]

when you have a critical issue such as this, which is holding back aid in crisis areas you can not just wait for agreements and meetings between vendors/corporations or whatever

If the guys whose job it is to rake in huge amounts of money deploying telecom equipment can't mobilize themselves to grab that money then I seriously doubt any amount of volunteers can. The agreements aren't complicated and any time urgency can be overcome with enough profit motive.

Like it or not, this whole transition from tribalism to nationalism to globalism has heightened the role of money and if money can't solve the problem then it can't be solved short of abandonment of the direction things have been going and that is much bigger and longer term than any emergency such as this.

Re:This is an adbication of responsibility

[tuggy]

If the guys whose job it is to rake in huge amounts of money deploying telecom equipment can't mobilize themselves to grab that money then I seriously doubt any amount of volunteers can.

That is why they are not asking for money, but asking for material and human resources.
Don't underestimate, specially in a big place like the US, if people really want to help they can do it faster than these big corporations.

Re:This is an adbication of responsibility

[YrWrstNtmr]

Mobilization requires money and I don't see the money.

What, that $10.5 billion (just for starters) isn't 'money'? Just because they're not giving it to YOU, doesn't mean its not happening.

Re:This is an adbication of responsibility

[Baldrson]

If there is $10.6 billion available and telecom is so critical then why the begging for charity rather than offering of bounites for telecom service?

Re:This is an adbication of responsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

If there is $10.6 billion available and telecom is so critical then why the begging for charity rather than offering of bounites for telecom service?

I don't think you fully grasp the scale of things. I will simplify and pretend the authorities on the ground can communicate their communication needs effectively, and that the bureaucracy is a well tuned machine that can act as a single entity. Pretend you are that single entity. You have $10.6 billion in your hand. Go buy a full communications system to serve everyone. There's no "Mega Communications Mart" with a 25,000-piece pre-assembled comm gear package in the back room, ready to sell them! When action is needed on this scale, logistics become a nightmare. Sure, they could put out a general call to all comm equipment distributors "we need to buy all your radios, microwave relays, and trunking systems-- we have money and will pay"; but then they end up with a shitload of broken , outdated, or useless crap mixed in, sent by jackasses looking to unload worthless stock for FEMA money. Calling for voluntary donations actually keeps the quality high while maximizing distribution. Basically, waiting for a government agency to figure out how to deal with a city under water and 1.4 million refugees is just stupid. Not even the government can handle it. The citizenry itself is the only large enough "organization" with the resources and manpower to deal with it.

Re:This is an adbication of responsibility

[demachina]

You would think that FEMA and the FCC would have figured out a while ago that they need to build some trucks with mobile cell phone towers and position them around the country. The trucks would have their own generators, a tanker for fuel, a tall tower that you crank up when you get the truck to the disaster area and either a microwave or satellite link to connect to the rest of the network. Maybe it would carry a stock of cell phones, cell phone batteries and chargers would be good too.

Cell phones being portable and requiring no land lines are a natural means for communication in a disaster area. They are also more ubiquitous than UHF radios, easier for ordinary people to use, better switched and routed.

You have the problem that people in an area with no power can't charge the batteries but if they leave them off most of the time, just turn them on to see if there is a signal and make a 911 call the batteries will last a while. If you could count on cell phone service being the first thing restored then a stock of spare batteries would be a natural addition to a home disaster survival kit.

Japan has an interesting idea in that they want to field a geosync satellite with a 66 foot dish that can communicate with regular cell phones from space which means they would always have comm in a disaster area no matter how bad it is.

As an aside looks I saw a Red Cross official on Larry King and part of the problem in New Orleans is FEMA is a disaster when it comes to recovering from a real disaster. As nearly as I can tell all they do is write checks and hand out pork post disaster. They in fact seem to be completely dependent on the privately funded Red Cross to actually supply and shelter disaster refugees using private donations. In the case of New Orleans someone, not sure if it was FEMA, state or city, told them to stay out of New Orleans because it was to dangerous so the normal channels for providing water and food sat outside the city letting people suffer inside.

Re:This is an adbication of responsibility

[Baldrson]

FEMA is a disaster when it comes to recovering from a real disaster. As nearly as I can tell all they do is write checks and hand out pork post disaster.

Precisely, so let the write checks for meeting objectives, such as "$1000/day for each first responder equipped with a working wireless phone in the critical areas". stay out of New Orleans because it was to dangerous so the normal channels for providing water and food sat outside the city letting people suffer inside

Again, the objective can be reduced to "writing checks" as in "A $1000 check for each person delivered out of the danger area to a FEMA checkpoint."

Bottom line, the guvvies just can't relate to anything but micromanaging everyone to death. It goes with the turf these days. Your taxpayer dollars at work funding Dominance/Submission pervs destroying the country if not the world with their sexual preference.

Re:This is an adbication of responsibility

[s388]

better watch yourself. i got flamed yesterday, pretty severely, for wondering where the federal response and swiftness was. yeah.

in the words of the bushco mob, it's a "state problem."

see, we just brush under the rug the money (and national guard resources) used to secure a foreign nation at the expense of our own land, all the tax money that's gone to FEMA (and hell, also to homeland security: terrorists could have planned to blow up the levees , not to mention the tax money that's gone to the army corp of engineers so that the water-works section could do absolutely nothing for the levees over the last few years despite their being one of the top 3 official vulnerabilities facing the nation.

at times like this, the federal government and a band of citizen lackeys just take the chance to say "no, sorry, it's not the government's job to do anything, losers."

(i'm not necessarily criticizing congressional appropriation action that's underway (which is strictly a financial mobilization), but the FEMA, corps, MP, and national guard rescue/security effort was or has been incompetent to non-existent. just read what people on the ground there have been saying.)

Citywide Wi-Fi

[blastard]

Now would be a fantastic opportunity to install a citywide Wi-Fi network. If the ILEC was ever going to do it and get good press for it, now is the time. Could Intel use another test bed for Wi-Max?

Re:Citywide Wi-Fi

[Jeff DeMaagd]

They need power first.

"Wi-Fi" needs power. Laptops need power.

At least for the APs, a self-contained solar charging/battery powered AP with repeating ability is going to run $1k+ each, last I looked, the solar cells costed ~$700.

Right now, I'd rather have the relief workers use radios and send that $1000 and send that money's worth of food, water and other necessities than send electronics of questionable value to a relief effort. I think radios last a lot longer than laptops, in durability and in battery life per charge.

Re:Citywide Wi-Fi

[Snorpus]

Plus...

• Radio communications are infrastructure-free, over distances ranging from a few miles to thousands of miles (depending on band). -No need to find a local location with a connection to the landline Internet.
• Amateur Radio operators are already trained and have drilled in disaster communications. -Experience counts.
• Digital communications via amateur radio have been used for over 20 years. -No need to discover how to intall that WiFi card in a laptop.
• Hams involved in emergency communications will likely already be properly equipped (extra batteries, DC-DC chargers, portable towers and antennas, personal supplies, etc.) -Look for SUVs with lots of vertical antennas on the roof.

Re:Citywide Wi-Fi

[blastard]

Perhaps I should have been clearer.

I wasn't talking about rolling out Wi-Fi or Wi-Max right now. I'm talking about it in terms of the reconstruction. Something that can be considered when "re-wiring" the city.

In Eastern Europe after communism, some areas were "wired" with cellular service in order to provide basic home phones. The existing infrastructure was in a bad state of repair, and would not handle the needs of the newly liberated populace. I recall seeing pictures the the unit placed in people's homes that took the cellular signals and made POTS out of it. I've used a similar device here in the U.S. for television remote trucks to give us an alternative to wiring phone lines into remote sites.

With Wi-Fi as part of the planning package, areas where power is restored could pick up many services sooner rather than later. It will take some time to sort out and repair all the broken phone lines. Keep in mind that a pair of individual wires must make it all the way back to the Central Office (CO) for each and every phone line. The CO must also be operating in order for the connection to be made.

It will probably be a couple of weeks before Line Power gets restored to more than a handful of areas. In this time, it may be possible to devise a rollout plan for Wi-Fi.

Questions that would need to be answered include:
What connects the access point to the internet?
Would a mesh be effective?
What access controls need to be implemented?
Will residents be able to use this technology when they return?
Is VOIP possible? Is it desireable?

I was just throwing it out as a possibility.

If Google = Evil

[JediLow]

If Google = Evil: This would actually be a great time for them to 'make their move' - they've got large quantities of unused cable, and if you follow all the rumors can create their 2nd internet while having an audience that is both captive and grateful. Imagine - Google begins with coming in as the savior for the hurricane and ends up ruling the world... (And the next thing is that Zonk is going to post this to the front page.)

Re:If Google = Evil

[p0]

Correction :
And the next thing is that Zonk is going to post this to the front page OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

Why not let evolution take its course?

[glrotate]

If you're not smart enough to leave when a hurricane is coming, should we really be spend billions of dollars to keep you alive?

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[LinuxInDallas]

What I am curious about is what percentage of the people left behind in New Orleans had the means to evacuate the city but chose not to for some stupid reason. 50%? 75%? Regardless of the answer the government has a responsibility to help those that are left.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[mspohr]

I think that most of those left in New Orleans were too poor to have a car or be able to afford to leave. There were some clueless tourists also.

It's criminal negligence that our government took 5 days to get food and water (and law and order) to these people.

After all of the money that has gone to "Homeland Security", you'd think the government wouldn't have to ask for donations for a predicted disaster.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason some people weren't smart enough to leave was that they couldn't leave. They had no car, and the city of New Orleans decided to stick them all in a giant soup bowl.

What's ironic about this post... my confirm word is "survived". LOL

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[grumbel]

It seems less a problem of intelligence, but more one of money. Without a car and no place to go, its difficult to leave the city.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[strcmp]

You're assuming, of course, that intelligence is hereditary.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[blastard]

You have a valid point. Many said they did not want to leave. Case in point. "The musician's agent Al Embry had earlier said that nobody had seen Domino since he told people he was planning to 'ride out' the storm at his low-lying home. " From the bbcnews article... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4206622.s tm Clearly Fats Domino had the means to get out of New Orleans, just not the common sense. It might prove interesting to play back interviews with New Orleans residents who were interviewed before the storm and why they said they weren't leaving.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[Idimmu Xul]

They had quite a few days notice, they could have simply walked away.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're not smart enough to leave when a hurricane is coming, should we really be spend billions of dollars to keep you alive?

Guess what? Lots of city folks don't have or need cars until there is a total meltdown. I don't own a car.

And that doesn't include there were many thousand "essential employees" that had to stay behind, like security guards, emergency services, city engineers, hospital staff, nursing home staff, and so forth.

And of course, most of the "billions" is for the refugees that evacuated before the storm hit and have since lost everything.

Finally, all of these people who are in trouble have paid friggin' taxes for years, and I'm sure thousands of them have family members in Iraq. I think these people paid their dues.

So, in conclusion, you're the stupid fuck, and I doubt you're too young to have ever experienced a hurricane.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[Anonymous Coward]

To where?

How many miles do you think people can walk on foot? They would have been just as bad off and not far enough away when the storm hit.

This is especially not an option to the elderly or the disabled.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/#Galton%20and %20Differential%20Psychology

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[yelvington]

From http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/letthemeatca.html:

Let them eat cake
A saying that shows insensitivity to or incomprehension of the realities of life for the unfortunate. Rousseau, in his Confessions, tells of a great princess who, on being informed that the country people had no bread, replied, "Let them eat cake." This statement is often, and incorrectly, attributed to Marie Antoinette.

In contemporary terms, it might be expressed as "why didn't they load up their SUV's and drive to Baton Rouge like the smart white people did?"

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[benjamindees]

You're assuming, of course, that intelligence is hereditary.

Given:

1) Evolution is correct, and

2) Humans evolved intelligence,

That would have to be true.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[YrWrstNtmr]

Ask the mayor of NO why most of the fleet of city school buses is now under water. Why didn't HE, the onscene commander, use those to evacuate people?

I saw one guy on TV the other day screaming "My car's under water! How the hell am I supposed to get out!?"
- If you HAVE(had) a car, why didn't you leave before?

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[thogard]

A report from the last hurricane indicated about 600,000 out of a million left. The average family that did leave spent something like $1200 (or $1500 I don't remember and can't find the link) on travel, food, hotels and other losses.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[Anonymous Coward]

Evolution only "takes its course" when those whom you suggest are unfit have not reproduced. The metric of success for evolution is procreation. If an organism bares off-spring, they are evolutionarily successful. Evolution seldom applies to humans because lack of intelligence is not a necessary condition for procreation.

That aside, wake up. I think you forget the fact that some people who are "smart enough" to have left lacked the resources to do so.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[Anonymous Coward]

What resources? Such as their feet?

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[Jellybob]

It's criminal negligence that our government took 5 days to get food and water (and law and order) to these people.

Where did you hear they have law and order? I'm transcribing the NOPD radio net at the moment, and a couple of hours ago there was call out because a sniper was causing problems.

Last night bomb squad were called out.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[mspohr]

The government announced this morning that they had restored law and order. Obviously this is wrong. I guess they are trying to put a good face on a bad situation. Maybe they need to get the National Guard and their equipment back from Iraq before they can help out.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[Jellybob]

Things are certainly calming down in the area at the moment, but saying that law and order has been restored seems premature at the moment.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[topaz0]

As a side note: giving them the means to live is just as much evolution as leaving them to die. If helping people is part of our nature, then it's a factor in evolution, it makes it easier for that population to survive. Social Darwinism is nonsense.

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess what, that's called 'natural selection at work'. We should have abandoned NO and let the fucktards, elderly, and handicapped die down there to thin the herd a bit.

GO AHEAD, FUCKING FLAME AWAY
AND WASTE YOUR G-D DAMNED MOD POINTS FUCKTARDS

Re:Why not let evolution take its course?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hitler rises from the dead and posts to Slashdot?

Welcome!

Electricity

[p0]

What is the news about power over there? I think lack of power would be a major problem for the 'techy' rescue/aid operations?

Re:Electricity

[surprise_audit]

That would be why the message from FCC Chief of Staff includes this:

5) can you bring generators? if so what size? capacity? power levels?

Not everyone can leave

[Kiaser Wilhelm II]

There are plenty of people who wanted to leave but they simply didn't have the resources to do so.

Remember, much of the population in New Orleans is poor to very poor. Most of these people have no cars of their own to use.

Re:Not everyone can leave

[GaryOlson]

...wanted to leave but they simply didn't have the resources to do so.

For billions of people the world over who are poorer than the poorest in New Orleans, the minimum resources required for transportation is FEET. I think 90% of the stranded people have the requisite resources to leave. What they appear to lack is horse sense (the common sense given to a horse) or the humility to realize the world does NOT OWE THEM A DAMN THING.

Re:Not everyone can leave

[thogard]

Walk where? The entire area within 24 hrs walking distance would have been worse than staying in a low house. Most people can only walk 2 to 4 miles an hour and they can only do that for about 6 hrs if they are in average shape. 12 miles out would get them to the weigh station that is currently being used as a transfer point because its high ground.

Read the NWS storm warnings... these people would have had to walk over 50 miles to get to a point where they might have a chance of survival.

Re:Not everyone can leave

[GaryOlson]

...Most people can only walk 2 to 4 miles an hour and they can only do that for about 6 hrs if they are in average shape

Please quote your source for these "facts". Also, a disciplined and motivated person can easily exceed the average for a short stretch of days. As I posted, most of these people lack the will, sense, and discipline to control their own destiny. This lack is often the precursor to "economic disadvantage" in the USA -- not fate. I only require the people given standard human equipment to use that equipment to help themselves; not whine out loud to any news camera that no one is helping them. [insert deity] helps those who help themselves.

Re:Not everyone can leave

[thogard]

You want citations for everything? How about looking at the real world? How long does it take you to walk an hour? Are you faster or slower than most? I tend to walk 1 km in 10 minutes yet I walk at least twice as fast as most Japanese women.

Have you ever watched a bunch of people who are of average shape deal with strenuous work for a few hours? There is a reason so many people die while shoveling snow. I've seen too many people that have been hauled out of water because they just couldn't go on any more after just a short time of mild exercise.

Re:Not everyone can leave

[topaz0]

Well you're cynical, aren't you. Most poor people walk a lot more than anyone else. They have to. They have no cars. These people aren't leaving because they can't. They aren't being allowed to leave. The police point their guns when they try to approach the barricades. This seems more like "[insert deity] hurts those who are hurt by others."

Re:Not everyone can leave

[GaryOlson]

12 miles is a negative projection. Let's use a more motivated projection. (I am assuming a hurricane is motivation, of course. ) At 4mph, 12 hours of sunlight, and 10 hours of walking, motivated pedestrians could cover 40 miles.

If we make a negative assumption on origination and destination and start from Nunez Community College with a destination of downtown Lutcher, the distance is 52 miles. With motivation, this is not an unreasonable goal -- assuming the pedestrian is motivated to leave BEFORE the hurricane arrives. Since this is also a negative projection on starting point, many of these people would have had a shorter walk and could have walked to a safe destination.

Please don't misconstrue facts and lack of common sense, discipline, and motivation.

Re:Not everyone can leave

[Anonymous Coward]

Spoken as someone who probably has his ass parked on a chair eating Cheetos

Re:Not everyone can leave

[drsquare]

If someone can't walk fifty miles in a couple of days, with the threat of a HURRICANE motivating them, then there really is no hope for them. I suppose they just expected to sit there and be saved by someone else.

If they're not fit enough to walk that far, WHOSE FAULT IS THAT? Perhaps they shouldn't spend their entire lives in front of the TV eating donuts. I often work strenuously 13 hours a day 5 days a week, if a hurricane was coming my way I wouldn't think twice about walking a hundred miles to get out of the way.

Feeling sorry for youself doesn't get you out of trouble.

Re:Not everyone can leave

[thogard]

If they left 48 hours out they would have been in a worse situation and in at least 3 out of the last 4 that hit that area that would have been the case. The NWS warning was stating livestock that got hit by flying debris would die in the entire area you claim you could walk in 2 days. Even so how do you find a secure location 50 miles away that is anymore secure that what you left (which you might know has survived other hurricanes?)

48 hours before the storm, they would have had to walk an additional distance because they would not have been allowed to walk over the highway bridges.

Also how about the people that were told to stay in the hotels since they were considered safe but then were kicked out after the storm when the flooding came? They should have stayed in the hotel but were forced to leave. Same goes for some of the hospitals and nursing homes. Then there were the ones like police and utility workers that needed to stay behind for any number of reason.

Re:Not everyone can leave

[thogard]

When I'm walking at my fast normal pace, I cover almost exactly 6 km which is 3.7 mph but I can only do that for a bit over an hour. The next hour I'll be off by at least 10% if not 15%. In three hours I expect I'm under 3 mph. If I don't lose any more speed I would cover about 3.7x2+3x10 or 37.4 miles and I could do part of that with a pack on however only about 3 of my friends could keep up with that.

Of course that assumes there is a safe destination. Keep in mind that huge river that could flood anywhere along its banks for hundreds of miles with the winds that were expected. If you go east or west you have to know the storm direction and this time east lost out.

Re:Not everyone can leave

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, if LA is like other coastal areas in the south east I've seen, that 50 miles is flatter than Kansas and mostly swamp.

Where I used to live, people could still get malaria, because of the swamps and billions of mosquitos.

If you care about the victims, help them.

[elucido]

Basically its coming down to a decision of the people. This is a moral issue moreso than a financial issue.

So lets discuss the morality of the situation. We should also discuss the financial impact. This situation has the potential to not only crash our economy but put us into a depression.

Re:If you care about the victims, help them.

[ErikPeterson]

I'm all for private donations.. and will make some when I get some free funds on my credit cards.. But I'd much prefer to see larger orginizations, read gas companies, step in. Their preemtive price gouging becuase demand will go up because of this should be making them enough money to help out the victims.

Re:If you care about the victims, help them.

[elucido]

I was not talking about just donations. Let private corporations handle the situation. Lets give these people jobs, not just food and water. Lets get some of them into college through sponsorships and scholarships to anyone who was a victim of this disaster. That is how you help.

Kind of makes you wish . . .

[Idou]

We had had a bit more foresight when we were setting our priorities.

What of the public sector can't handle it?

[elucido]

Can anyone really say the government is doing a good job in how its handling this situation?

Would you prefer these victims stay in the dome forever?

Re:What of the public sector can't handle it?

[Timesprout]

Would you prefer the private sector was in charge and just wrote New Orleans off as loss and not bother allocating funds to resolve the situation. These things are called disasters for a reason. they can always be handled better.

SomethingAwful

[Mendy]

http://www.somethingawful.com/

SA was apparently hosted there so has gone down ("either underwater or strapped to the roof of a stolen vehicle that is also underwater.").

They've got a page up at the moment with their feelings about the whole business which is worth a read (scroll down a bit till you get to "Bless This Mess")

Re:SomethingAwful

[teknomage1]

Something awful was hosted by directnic. Directnic's data center has fortified itself - seems the head of IT there's ex-special forces. He's blogging the whole thing here http://mgno.com/ . Something awful's box had to be take down because they're losing their data pipes.

Why, America?

[LkDotCom]

People killed, property destroyed, mass reverted at "Lord of the Flyes" level. And people talking about WiMax and Ham radio.

We, spoiled people of the Old Continent (maybe too old) are much more concerned about the human regression of the citizens of New Orleans that with tech. Did you have a look at Phuket Tsunami?
MUCH MORE TRAGIC outcome, much more dead people and yet a cooperative environment, without people harassing others or pillaging the neighbourhood and without problems with the volunteers.

There must be something really scaring below the thin surface of the common US citizen (or maybe under every "first world" one), something deeply wrong with a lot of people, whose first instinct is to go arming themselves as it was not a catastrophe, but some kind of Apocalypse B Movie.

I've worked with refugees and indeed lend a helping hand in Pukhet zones, but have never ONCE seen the global and total madness generated by Katrina.

ANd I am more than a little scared, you know?

-
Grammar Zealotes, please spare a non-english writer

Re:Why, America?

[lmsig]

There are a small minority of people who take advantage of every situation. The people of New Orleans are overwhelmingly kind, generous people (just go visit sometime when it is all back, you'll have the time of your life and see some real hospitality). Unfortunatly the media likes to sensationalize everything. A few bad apples are the problem.

To be honest.. all of the people using this opportunity to take political pot-shots, attacks on the US, etc are doing something very similar to those looters and criminals taking advantage of the situation in New Orleans. Using a tragedy to push your own polital agenda or beliefs is disrespectful. Spend your energy on something positive instead.

Re:Why, America?

[LkDotCom]

And, normally, this is the answer to any kind of critic to US.
I'm not asying Americans are hordes of savages. I'm talking about all "first world" people. You can check.
But it's true that violence episodes are far too widespread to be just "a little and isolated case". Not being able to guarantee safety to volunteers in a thousands square miles area is a little more tthan just "A few bad apples are the problem".

Please do not assume every one is lobing stones in US direction at every corner: I'm simply concerned about he "what if happens here? Will be more like Phuket or New Orleans?".

Re:Why, America?

[benjamindees]

I don't know which is worse, that the current denizens of NOLA feel the need to act like animals or that most people think sending in commandos and wi-fi will help them.

There is a ridiculous disconnect here in the US. And it's not between Democrats and Republicans, between black and white, or between labor and management. It's between those with wi-fi and those without homes.

Re:Why, America?

[ergo98]

People killed, property destroyed, mass reverted at "Lord of the Flyes" level. And people talking about WiMax and Ham radio.

Jesus, here's this bullshit again. MY GOD MAN, PEOPLE ARE DROWNING AND HERE YOU ARE POSTING ON INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD! GOOD GOD MAN, GET SOME PERSPECTIVE!

Here's the thing, though I realize this message will be missed by all of the pseudo morally righteous as they continue their campaign to post "Good god, won't anyone think of the..." messages to every message board: We, as a generalization of the Slashdot community, are in the technology arena.

We do not produce food, filter water, or build dikes. We do technology. You get that? Does every "Why won't someone thing of the..." moron understand this very simple point? This is our domain. Maybe it isn't the most important necessity of life, but it's what we know (and other people are taking care of the other areas, and there is NOTHING WE CAN DO to help get food or water there quicker, or to restore law and order).

As such, in the grand composite intermix that is modern society, the people who do technology ponder how they can leverage their knowledge and skills to get society up and running. Because, as I'm sure you're aware, the goal isn't just to setup a third-world state in New Orleans, but to get society running again there so people can live and work and play, and not just sit on their stacks of water and food because that's all that LkDotCom thought mattered.

Re:Why, America?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am sure I am going to get modded down or broadsided by double-think but I must speak the truth and the truth hurts.

There is a calaous racist/class divide in the U.S. not just internaly but externaly. Those in power have been arogant and think they can get away with these policies for example our excesses in latin america from the 50's to present - our involvements in the middle east (40-present) carribean(60-present) - the extreme proverty in the U.S. and her territories - the class system which is virtualy an economic aparthied system.

There are signs that are rather obvious that it is not sustainable, from the over consumption of resources (which is most likely a factor in the storm), the excess military agression to sustain these idiologies, to the 6 million people in the penal instutitons. From 9-11 to what is going on in New Orleans the country are warning that things need to change. There is enough for everyone but we are going to have to take a serious look at what we all are doing. It is not a case of morality i.e. wrong vs right it is about ALL OUR future generations having a future - the way that things are going I fear for the future we are creating.

We can stick our heads in the sand all we want by talking about wifi-tech etc. but the moment is going to end. Remember spain/portugal where once very powerful countries where are they now? We need to do the best with our few minutes in the sun - because if the NOLA is any warning there is going to hell to pay once the sun goes down. Rome was sacked people, that is not a future I want to leave my kids.

After the laughter comes the tears ...

Re:Why, America?

[jnelson4765]

There must be something really scaring below the thin surface of the common US citizen (or maybe under every "first world" one), something deeply wrong with a lot of people, whose first instinct is to go arming themselves as it was not a catastrophe, but some kind of Apocalypse B Movie.

It is entirely expected. We in America know how tight the screws have been cranked on the extremely poor in this country - and I don't blame people for arming themselves.

This is America. Witness and behold - strip the sitcoms and soaps, the hairpeices and dental work, the glitz and glamor, the Hollywood and Madison Avenue, and all the hyper-surrealism of American media away, and this is what you get.

Poor people doing what they need to survive, in a country that has been working for a century to destroy civil society. America has no civil society left - and so we descend into madness. In most areas of the world, there is a sense of local community, and that community can survive, even with the trappings of "culture" demolished simply by still relying on the relationships of the people involved.

Not so in America.

Re:Why, America?

[benjamindees]

We do not produce food, filter water, or build dikes. We do technology.

But, don't you get it? Those are areas that benefit from technology too! Obviously some of them seem to be lacking!

People need food. They need houses. They need clean water. You may not have a great need for those things at the moment. But if you're sitting in an air conditioned room typing on the internet, you're in the top 10% of the world population. New Orleans has just been reduced to the bottom 10%.

When all is said and done, and a 100-year disaster happens, your technology doesn't mean shit. Electronic gadgets aren't the only technology you can produce, like "I'm just a rocket scientist, I can't filter water." America's greatest minds have always made technology relevant to average people. Einstein consulted on canal projects. Nuclear scientists took time to help people prepare to survive nuclear attack. Please, at least try to make it matter.

Re:Why, America?

[t_allardyce]

I can understand some of the things they do but raping people? getting violent with each other? shooting at rescue workers and helicopters? that's not poverty. its absolutely true, some cultures live in relative unity that can survive a loss of law and order, others live surrounded by lions cages and when something goes wrong with those cages all shit breaks loose.

Re:Why, America?

[Sponge Bath]

people are drowning and here you are posting on internet...

Quick! Throw them some mod points!

Re:Why, America?

[glesga_kiss]

There must be something really scaring below the thin surface of the common US citizen (or maybe under every "first world" one), something deeply wrong with a lot of people, whose first instinct is to go arming themselves as it was not a catastrophe, but some kind of Apocalypse B Movie.

The reason is quite simple. For the past 60 years the American population has been made to fear things for the politicians gain. It's what gives them power. Bush is a case in point. Looking back, you can see that US has had an "enemy" to fear constantly since WW2. This "save us!!" attitude to politicians allows them to carry on scamming and cheating with little public oversight. So what if Harriburton got rich from Iraq, what are you, UnAmerican? Are you with the terrorists?

Combine that attitude with institutionalised racism (black people loot, white people "find"), poverty, despiration, a feeling of "they don't care about us" and easy access to firearms, you could spot this coming a mile away. There's your recipe for your Apocalypse B-movie.

It could have been avoided however with a little common sense. Oh and one last thing for all of y'all stateside:

Stop building wooden houses in areas prone to extreme weather conditions. Do you guys not have this fairy tale in kindergarden?

Once upon a time there were three little pigs and the time came for them to leave home and seek their fortunes. Before they left, their mother told them " Whatever you do , do it the best that you can because that's the way to get along in the world.

The first little pig built his house out of straw because it was the easiest thing to do.

The second little pig built his house out of sticks. This was a little bit stronger than a straw house.

The third little pig built his house out of bricks.

One night the big bad wolf, who dearly loved to eat fat little piggies, came along and saw the first little pig in his house of straw. He said "Let me in, Let me in, little pig or I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house in!"

"Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin", said the little pig.

But of course the wolf did blow the house in and ate the first little pig.

The wolf then came to the house of sticks.

"Let me in ,Let me in little pig or I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house in" "Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin", said the little pig. But the wolf blew that house in too, and ate the second little pig.

The wolf then came to the house of bricks. " Let me in , let me in" cried the wolf "Or I'll huff and I'll puff till I blow your house in"

"Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin" said the pigs.

Well, the wolf huffed and puffed but he could not blow down that brick house.

But the wolf was a sly old wolf and he climbed up on the roof to look for a way into the brick house. The little pig saw the wolf climb up on the roof and lit a roaring fire in the fireplace and placed on it a large kettle of water.

When the wolf finally found the hole in the chimney he crawled down and KERSPLASH right into that kettle of water and that was the end of his troubles with the big bad wolf.

The next day the little pig invited his mother over . She said "You see it is just as I told you. The way to get along in the world is to do things as well as you can." Fortunately for that little pig, he learned that lesson. And he just lived happily ever after!

Re:Why, America?

[GoofyBoy]

>We do not produce food, filter water, or build dikes. We do technology. You get that? Does every "Why won't someone thing of the..." moron understand this very simple point? This is our domain.

Um... what do you do during a blackout? Just lie there comatose becuase, hey, there is no technology and its "our domain"?

Look what is happening in Texas, look at the aid is coming from around the country. Its not mothers saying what is needed is not our domain, but here's some freshly baked cookies. Its not accountants saying what is needed is not our domain, but here's some tax advice.

Its humans helping humans. Is being human in your "domain"?

Re:Why, America?

[ergo98]

Are you really that much of an idiot, and did you really miss the point that astoundingly?

99% of America, and about 99.999% of the world, is doing absolutely nothing more than a bit of moralizing about what everyone else should be doing, maybe providing a bit of armchair analysis of what people should or shouldn't do. Here some people decided to use a bit of brainpower for good, perhaps using technology to help assist the recovery (and for those who think technology has no place - thankfully you aren't in any position of power and instead are just useless automatons typing on a keyboard somewhere), or to help prevent this sort of descent to chaos in the future. I highly suspect that everyone of the idiots postulating what is right or wrong to talk about themselves have done dick all - zilch, nothing, nada - to help the people of New Orleans, but instead they toss off some moralizing (just before they toss off to porn) about what everyone else should be doing.

Call it a voluntary tax

[PocketPick]

Perhaps the FCC should use some of the money they've collected in indecency fines to help fund relief efforts in New Orleans.

Or what says the MPAA, RIAA, or telecoms. Millions have undoubtedly poured into the vaults of lobyists and influential members of the organization. Let they help pay. After all, I'm sure that much of the repairs will go to the telecom infrastruture, adding up to nothing more than welfare for SBC, Comcast, Verizon or whatever Bell controls communications in that are. We will repair thier networks, and then still get stiffed with the same fees w/o open access for competitors.

Walking on sunshine

[Anonymous Coward]

That 80's Katrina and the Waves song gets a whole new meaning doesn't it :( Pity the people stuck there; the ones least able to afford this happening to them. Help if you can.

Forget about LINUX for a while

[Anonymous Coward]

Please do not install Ubuntu/Fedora on every laptop/desktop you got hand on. Fix it and let it be as it was.

why not just tax the wealth of the rich people?

[Cryofan]

about 5% of Americans own 50% of American wealth. If elite politicians had been taxing those plutocrats properly, and using that money for infrastructure, this would have never happened.

Oh, and BTW, in my opinion, Bush, his cabinet, all the GOP congresspeople and most of the Democratic congresspeople are responsible for the deaths in New Orleans because they failed to tax the rich and use that money to protect New Orleans. That was murder.

Therefore, I hereby petition the US Justice Dept to indict all of above aforesaid parties for those New Orleans murders, and try them on capital murder charges in a court of law, in accordance with custom and due process, and should aforesaid parties be found guilty by a jury of their peers, or by a judge, duly appointed, I hereby petition the Justice Dept that they be given all death penalty sentences.

Re:why not just tax the wealth of the rich people?

[b3x]

If elite politicians had been taxing those plutocrats properly, and using that money for infrastructure, this would have never happened.

you could make an argument that the disaster may have been averted, or the effects lessened, but to say it would never have happened is an exageration. an exageration created to exploit the pain and suffering of people to advance your political agenda. pathetic.

Re:why not just tax the wealth of the rich people?

[surprise_audit]

A tax on the floating, off-shore casinos would some way towards helping out You know, the barges that pushed ashore by the high winds.

Re:why not just tax the wealth of the rich people?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Kennedy Family is one of the wealthiest families on America, with extensive business and real estate holdings. Here are my suggestions on how the Kennedy family, including Teddy K himself, can pitch in:

• Sell off hundreds of millions of dollars in Kennedy family stock and donate proceeds to the poor Negroes in New Orleans.
• Sponsor a caravan of buses to transport hundreds of Black refugees to Hyannisport, Massachusetts where they can be sheltered inside the mammoth oceanfront Kennedy Compound.
• The Robert Kennedy Family can sell of its millions of dollars in real estate holdings including its 30 Million dollar family "home" known as "Hickory Hill". Proceeds to go to poor New Orleans Negroes.
• Ted Kennedy can sell off his extensive real estate holdings in California, Massachusetts, DC, Florida, and Nevada and donate the proceeds to building homes for poor displaced Negroes of New Orleans.
• The Kennedy family can liquidate their tax sheltered family trust and use the money to rebuild New Orleans, including the Jax Brewery.

Re:why not just tax the wealth of the rich people?

[glesga_kiss]

about 5% of Americans own 50% of American wealth. If elite politicians had been taxing those plutocrats properly, and using that money for infrastructure, this would have never happened.

The polititians are that 5% moran!! ;-)

Re:why not just tax the wealth of the rich people?

[drsquare]

about 5% of Americans own 50% of American wealth.

And pay about 90% of the taxes, but don't let that ruin your rant against the people bankrolling the schools, public services, roads and benefits for dole scroungers with 18 kids.

No-one was forced to live in a hurricane zone, in a place underwater, there was always a risk. Why should the rich all over America have their bank accounts raped to build even more giant levees for the sake of a single city living on reclaimed land?

If I decided to live on a leaky boat in a lake, and it sank, I couldn't blame tax payers for not building me a better boat. New Orleans should have been responsible for its own defences.

The rest of your post is just a mindless rant.

Re:why not just tax the wealth of the rich people?

[Ph33r th3 g(O)at]

And that attitude is why we are moving very quickly to an environment in which the rich will be afraid to be in public lest they be killed and eaten.

Re:why not just tax the wealth of the rich people?

[drsquare]

Then perhaps the poor should be taxed for being murderous cannibals? They don't have much money so they could be taxed in cigarettes and scratch cards.

Re:why not just tax the wealth of the rich people?

[Ph33r th3 g(O)at]

Might be a bit better if the greed of the rich didn't create murderous cannibals in the first place, but have it your way. I have the fava beans and the fine Chianti at the ready.

Evolution it's at work

[Uukrul]

Why not let evolution take its course?

There are a lot of people around the world helping (money, support, oil, etc.) the victims of Katrina. So the genes for altruism are assuring it's own survival.
Evolution is about the survival of the finest, not the luckiest (at long run).

Re:Evolution it's at work

[benjamindees]

Evolution is about the survival of the finest, not the luckiest

A Freudian slip, in an argument over evolution. It doesn't get any better...

Reality Check

[SuperBanana]

Now would be a fantastic opportunity to install a citywide Wi-Fi network

People have no clothing, food, or water. They certainly don't have laptops with Wifi cards. Most of the people who were left behind could never afford a computer or even internet service. Many of them probably never owned a cell phone, either.

A cell network restricted to rescue/aid staff (nobody else has a good enough reason to be crowding a precious communications resource) and a couple of banks of free payphones for people to call loved ones to let them know they're alive- would do just fine.

DONATE NOW

[Anonymous Coward]

American Red Cross

Provides a full spectrum of services to disaster victims, including shelter, medical care, food, clean water and assisting with cleanup efforts.

http://www.redcross.org/

https://www2.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.asp

Salvation Army:

Providing hot meals to displaced disaster victims and emergency personnel working to aid those devastated by Hurricane Katrina.

http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/USNSAHome.htm

https://secure5.salvationarmy.org/donations.nsf/do nate?openform&projectid=USN-hurricane05

United Way

Identifying serious needs of devastated communities and helping not only with front-line disaster relief but with long-term recovery.

http://national.unitedway.org/

https://volunteer.united-e-way.org/hurricane-katri na/donate/

America's Second Harvest

Transports food to victims and secures additional warehouse space to assist member food banks in resuming and maintaining operations.

http://www.secondharvest.org/default.asp

https://www.kintera.org/AutoGen/Simple/Donor.asp?i event=67898

Feed the Children

Mobilizing and distributing supplies in hurricane devastated areas.

http://www.feedthechildren.org/site/PageServer?pag ename=usw_hurricane_katrina

https://secure2.convio.net/ftc/site/Donation?ACTIO N=SHOW_DONATION_OPTIONS&CAMPAIGN_ID=2661

Habitat for Humanity

Helping disaster victims rebuild piece by piece and house by house.

http://www.habitat.org/

https://www.habitat.org/donation/generaldonation/d efault.aspx?media=habitat&lander=MP&sourcecode=10w 39&tg=katrina&keyword=homepage_08302005

Why not use the existing emergency supplies?

[nuggz]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/03/katrina.unus edgear/index.html

Forget coordinating donations.
Take the available equipment you ALREADY have, and use it.

As for immediate help, deploy the appropriate military units from the US and accept assistance from allied nations (ie Canada).

Re:Why not use the existing emergency supplies?

[glesga_kiss]

As for immediate help, deploy the appropriate military units from the US and accept assistance from allied nations (ie Canada)

After Canada refused to help in Iraq? That would cause the politicians more loss of face than they are willing.

Honestly, the USA has turned into 60s Russia. Complete denial of anything going wrong at all times. For example, follow the reporting timeline of Junes Afgan heli crash. First it was "lost", then "crashed" and finally (begrudingly) shot down with a "lucky shot". Reminded me of the start of Brazil.

Then there is the pride. Refusal to accept outside help, e.g. the Kursk submarine disaster, which could have came out completely differently if Russia had accepted help. The UN has offered to help in New Orleans. The Canadians offered troops to restore order, they could have been deployed within 2 days I'd bet. Almost every nation on earth has asked "is there anything we can do to help?". And the official US response? "We don't need your help". Jesus fucking Christ, people are dying and they are letting pride fuck with them. Fuck pride! (as the movie says).

But hey, it's not as though Bush has lost many voters, if anything the Replublicans have had a net gain this week. Sad, but that is politics....

Re:Why not use the existing emergency supplies?

[Ironsides]

And the official US response? "We don't need your help".

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has decided "no offer that can help alleviate the suffering of the people in the afflicted area will be refused,"

Hmm... Your infomation seems to be out of date.

Re:Why not use the existing emergency supplies?

[Ironsides]

from your linked article:
Responding to a CNN inquiry, Department of Homeland Security spokesman Marc Short said Friday the gear has not been moved because none of the governors in the hurricane-ravaged area has requested it.

Seems clear enough to me why HS and Fema haven't deployed it. Now ask the governors why it hasn't been deployed.

Re:Why not use the existing emergency supplies?

[xlv]

from your linked article:
Responding to a CNN inquiry, Department of Homeland Security spokesman Marc Short said Friday the gear has not been moved because none of the governors in the hurricane-ravaged area has requested it.

Seems clear enough to me why HS and Fema haven't deployed it. Now ask the governors why it hasn't been deployed.

How convenient to shift the blame. I see it differently though:

Fema is aware that there are supplies there, so I assume the Fema manager for Louisiana is aware of it also as it is his/her job to know such things and it is his/her duty to make sure the governor's office is aware that there are first responder gear available for them. Of course this assumes the managers in place are competent and not political cronnies...

Re:Why not use the existing emergency supplies?

[YrWrstNtmr]

Fema is aware that there are supplies there, so I assume the Fema manager for Louisiana is aware of it also as it is his/her job to know such things and it is his/her duty to make sure the governor's office is aware that there are first responder gear available for them. Of course this assumes the managers in place are competent and not political cronnies...

FTA:
"A federal official said the department's Office for Domestic Preparedness reminded the Louisiana and Mississippi governors' offices about the stockpiles on Wednesday and Thursday, but neither governor had requested it."

Again...WTF are the governors doing?

Re:Why not use the existing emergency supplies?

[Ironsides]

Fema is aware that there are supplies there, so I assume the Fema manager for Louisiana is aware of it also as it is his/her job to know such things and it is his/her duty to make sure the governor's office is aware that there are first responder gear available for them. Of course this assumes the managers in place are competent and not political cronnies...

The governors ARE aware.

Re:Why not use the existing emergency supplies?

[Anonymous Coward]

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has decided "no offer that can help alleviate the suffering of the people in the afflicted area will be refused,"

Hmm... Your infomation seems to be out of date

She may have said that, but the followup question was Have you accepted any aid? and the answer was no.

This has been a fuckup at local, state, and federal levels, before, during and after the hurricane.

Re:disgusting

[benjamindees]

1) Nationalize State militias.

2) Make entire country dependent on just-in-time everything.

3) Send military (and militias) to fight a needless war.

4) Add layers of bureaucracy to emergency response.

5) Stop spending money on infrastructure.

6) Hurricane

7) ???

8) profit!!!

Out of Iraq?

[headqtrs]

Why don't you guys move stuff from Iraq to New Orleans? Everybody will be happy: Iraqis AND the people hit by Kratina!

Re:Out of Iraq?

[Snorpus]

We'll just tell the people on the Gulf Coast to wait six weeks, till the ships get here.

Stupid reasons?

[Uukrul]

What I am curious about is what percentage of the people left behind in New Orleans had the means to evacuate the city but chose not to for some stupid reason.

Some smart people do stupid things too: smoke, drive too fast, vote G.W. Bush, ...
To evacuate you must belive some other people that says you than you must leave your home, your friends and your work because maybe there is a catrastophic disaster. People is smart enought to not believe every body all the time.

People haven't evolutionated to cope with such catrastophic disasters. Education it's the way humans can avoid the lack of information. That's why we have such a big brains, to put information into.
So it's a problem of education, not a problem of inteligence. Better education allow better judgement. No education at all allow intelligent people do stupid things.

This is the perfect opportunity for /.ers

[zippity8]

Here you go! /. collectively has resources, experience, and sufficient assets to band together and work on a finding a solution to a real problem, rather than debating about what Ballmer is saying about Google.

Re:This is the perfect opportunity for /.ers

[topaz0]

I find it depressing that nobody has replied to this yet. That is exactly what we need to do, but nobody will do it. It is extremely frustrating to me as a 16 year old to see those with knowledge, experience, resources, influence not doing anything about it.

Who said anything about "big corporations"?

[Baldrson]

Huge amounts of money can be made by small agile companies as well as big companies if the prize award system is set up property.

The reason something like this might not work is because big government and big corporate cultures are now so buddy-buddy that the very idea of a fair competition where little guys could just get bounty for solving the problem first is anathema.

You don't get around that by hoping that the big government guys can collect a bunch of volunteers and equipment and coordinate the allocation of those resources. What you end up with is some bureaucrats who can just sit on their butts being important in an emergency.

THAT is a PROVEN path to failure.

International Help

[Anonymous Coward]

I readed on a spanish news web (English Google Translation) that Bush is rejecting international help. That's correct?
Because from Europe we can (and want) to help USA as USA has helped us and other countries in the past. But George W. Bush isn't very popular in the old Europe, and his word aren't helping.
Because tech is important, but airplanes, police , firemen... are more important.

Re:International Help

[YrWrstNtmr]

I readed on a spanish news web (English Google Translation) that Bush is rejecting international help. That's correct?

Patently incorrect.

Re:International Help

[macjim]

interesting that there's mention of Venezuela's offer of help and a US professor of foreign policy sneering at Hugo Chavez for making the offer, but no confirmation that BushCo will risk the embarrassment of accepting that particular offer.

That's what you get for centralization.

[Baldrson]

Right now the Federal government takes twice as much in taxes and state and local combined.

The result?

Idiocy such as you just described.

Reverse that and you have a much more robust laboratory of the states and even laboratory of the counties localities with far more sovereignty, responsibility and capability of responding to their own problems.

Subhuman Negro Beasts Terrorize White Refugees

[Anonymous Coward]

(from news.yahoo.com )

Valenti and her husband, two of very few white people in the almost exclusively black refugee camp, said she and other whites were threatened with murder on Thursday.

"They hated us. Four young black men told us the buses were going to come last night and pick up the elderly so they were going to kill us," she said, sobbing. "They were plotting to murder us and then they sent the buses away because we would all be killed if the buses came -- that's what the people in charge told us this morning."

Other survivors recounted horrific cases of sexual assault and murder.

Sitting with her daughter and other relatives, Trolkyn Joseph, 37, said men had wandered the cavernous convention center in recent nights raping and murdering children.

She said she found a dead 14-year old girl at 5 a.m. on Friday morning, four hours after the young girl went missing from her parents inside the convention center.

"She was raped for four hours until she was dead," Joseph said through tears. "Another child, a seven-year old boy was found raped and murdered in the kitchen freezer last night."

PEOPLE NEED FOOD, WATER, AND MEDICINE NOT INTERNET

[SuperBanana]

We can assist in reestablishing internal communications and provide connectivity to all disaster relief efforts by installing point to point, point to multipoint links, IP Web cams to assist the police and fire departments who can not be everywhere in such a large area,

Webcams? What? There's a 24 hour curfew. They're evacuating everyone. National Guard should be patrolling with orders to detain anyone and get them to evacuation centers, and if they get shot at- give a warning, and then shoot to kill and move on. Policing New Orleans is probably simpler than it ever was- and it will only get easier as they finish the evacuation.

Once order is established, take all that money for wireless access points, webcams...take all those consultants etc...and hand them wader boots. Have them cart water, food, and medicine to people. Go door to door searching for survivors. Go to the relief centers to help there. Because THAT is what we need. A simple radio network will suffice for short term communications (National Guard and HAM operators can probably help there more than anyone else) and should be easy given the lack of interference. Cell service would be a luxury, and suggesting ANYONE needs 802.11b is absolutely stupid. This is a bunch of vendors saying "hey, we'll help, but only if you let us use our most expensive, fancy, unnecessary equipment". You don't deploy a VoIP network, when the cost of one VoIP router will buy you a dozen hand-held radios. You don't give one person a nice big steak with roasted potatoes when you can give 1000 people rice.

PEOPLE NEED FOOD, WATER, AND MEDICINE. THEY NEED TO BE EVACUATED STILL. THEY DO NOT NEED LAPTOPS WITH INTERNET ACCESS. THEY NEED VOLUNTEERS MOVING THAT FOOD, WATER, AND MEDICINE- NOT SETTING UP #$@!ING WEBCAMS. The Mayor of New Orleans has been pretty clear about what he needs. Food, water, medicine, and busses to get people out so they stop rioting and looting. I believe the quote was "the president was talking about getting some school bus drivers down here. Thats' a joke. Get every greyhound bus in the country down here."

Who is in charge?

[elucido]

The private sector IS in charge. I mean really if you donate to the redcross, what exactly can they do? Can they provide jobs? can they provide education?

People need the ability to work their way out of this. It's going to take a lot of hard work, not just donations to the redcross. So who is going to do the work? The private sector does the work.

Re:Who is in charge?

[topaz0]

WE need to do the work. The activists. The people who actually care. The people who are outside the barricades, who can coordinate help. We can't just sit back and say: "what a pity, people are dying, starving, and nobody is doing anything about it, It's almost sad" COMEON people we don't have much power, but if we don't do anything, we won't have done anything, and nothing will have been done.

Re:Who is in charge?

[Anonymous Coward]

Right now people need to survive. Jobs and education comes after that.

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

Hard to admit, but probably true... :(

Why don't they use my mandatory donation?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, the 30-40% that these rat bastards take off the top of my wages - what is it, the skim, the take, or just plain old TAXES?

Not to sound like an asshole, but I don't get shit for my taxes, no healthcare, no housing, no subsidization on college, nothing.

Better yet, why don't these pricks in government stop shoveling money at Kellog Brown and Root?

More importantly, why don't they HIRE me for my services? I've been in and out of work since March of 2001 - the only way for a tragedy to turn into an economic good is if money is spent.

Don't be a stupid communist - don't volunteer. Offer your services AT A PREMIUM. You make money, you spend money, you reinvigorate a troubled economy.

When you work for free you are stealing your own job.

News Aggregators...

[Colz Grigor]

I find it bothersome that a news aggregator like Slashdot would post an article linking to another news aggregator's website, especially considering that BoingBoing displays not-safe-for-work advertising (suicide girls). Thank goodness I checked SlashDot before going to work today! Or should I be glad that I checked BoingBoing before work?

Editors: Please have a little more consideration of SlashDot readers than this.

::Colz Grigor

Not disgusting, it's a disaster area!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not disgusting that they have to ask for donations...it's a friggin' disaster area down here! Aid agencies and emergency workers ask for money all year round, disaster or not. Is that begging? Some people in this country living under a rock have just realized how bad it is down here within the last day or two. A desparate plea for help is often times heard louder than a mild mannered dude coming on and asking to open up your purse strings.

Besides, this isn't an online game, equipment and supplies don't just appear because you have the money. You can't dupe plat. You can't copy ones and zeros and come up with a new uber weapon of doom. This is real life and people have really died!

Oh...and the money spent in the war is another issue. Let's wait until the people are being taken care of properly before we mix these two together. I'm on your side when it's time to talk about this. But in the meantime, donate money, time, and equipment, and STFU!

Re:PEOPLE NEED FOOD, WATER, AND MEDICINE NOT INTER

[MBHkewl]

Open your eyes!
Using wireless communications will enhance aiding those in need.

If someone was found stuck under a house, they could communicate with aid centers to send help.

Don't shout out and bash your keyboard mindlessly man.

Geeks unite!

[goon america]

Watching this disaster unfold, I'm struck by the generosity of individual people who want to help and the complete ineptitude of the agencies that are supposed to be managing this crisis. I feel sort of frustrated because I would like to help but I live very far away and basically the only thing I can do is give to the Red Cross and just watch it all on TV.

We should all work together and develop open source collaboration software for disaster relief efforts.

Capabilties:
* Supercharged task list. I need supply $X at location $Y using vehicle $Z. People should be able to do the reverse, say I have supply $X at location $B but need vehicle $C. Must be able to work with very large numbers of people using it.
* Reporting connected to mapping. People should report on the ground what conditions are and report what is needed where
* VOIP phone bank. People around the world can volunteer as telephone operators for a central hotline. Obviously it's going to be harder to get web access in some situations so these people can take phone reports help them use the site through that, or just help them with whatever else they need
* Interlingual support. Language barriers are often a problem in disasters, especially those with international teams working together. This needs to be coordinated.
* Lost and found. People can post stats and descriptions and photos into a database that can be searched easily. People should also be able to do the reverse and register "I'm OK".
* Publicity effort: if this thing works then we need to publicize it so that people know to use it
* Scalability: this needs to scale to meet high variable demand. People should be able to donate servers and bandwidth. Should be load-tested to meet what seems like unrealistic loads.

I'm really struck by the way that individuals out there are helping one another. I saw one guy saying he was in Nevada, but he was willing to drive to Houston to come pick up someone who needed a place to stay... If we could come up with an application that helps individual people out there help with each other, we could have our own relief movement without needing the government. The big problem with the government agencies seems to be that they can't co-ordinate with one another (even though that was supposed to be the whole point of the Department of Homeland Security). There's really no limit to the people out there who would help if they only knew how, if there was a centralized "task list" maybe we could get the right help where it was needed faster.

Let's do it.

Re:Geeks unite!

[legirons]

We should all work together and develop open source collaboration software for disaster relief efforts.

Capabilties:
* Supercharged task list. I need supply $X at location $Y using vehicle $Z. People should be able to do the reverse, say I have supply $X at location $B but need vehicle $C. Must be able to work with very large numbers of people using it.
* Reporting connected to mapping. People should report on the ground what conditions are and report what is needed where
* VOIP phone bank. People around the world can volunteer as telephone operators for a central hotline. Obviously it's going to be harder to get web access in some situations so these people can take phone reports help them use the site through that, or just help them with whatever else they need
* Interlingual support. Language barriers are often a problem in disasters, especially those with international teams working together. This needs to be coordinated.
* Lost and found. People can post stats and descriptions and photos into a database that can be searched easily. People should also be able to do the reverse and register "I'm OK".
* Publicity effort: if this thing works then we need to publicize it so that people know to use it
* Scalability: this needs to scale to meet high variable demand. People should be able to donate servers and bandwidth. Should be load-tested to meet what seems like unrealistic loads.

I just tried to convert that list into an approximate framework for an application, and came up with two things
(a) Most of the communication aspects could be handled by a Wiki (assuming you're talking about a centralised system, where remote stations have some sort of network access)
(b) The mapping/reporting aspect is actually just remote sensing (but with human sensors), so it would be worth finding out if suitable GIS software already exists.

The other option of course, is that you might be thinking of a civilian equivalent to "tactical datalink" systems (TADIL, JTIDS...), based around the realtime sharing of information over a radio network using the exchange of formatted messages. That is quite an interesting idea, although it would seem to involve quite a hardware component unless you want to layer it over wifi routers (in which case centralised options would work).

The multilingual capability would seem to suggest a list of possible messages (each of which could be pre-translated), so instead of saying "need water at superbowl" you could say "message 10, location D90", where message 10 is "Besoin d'eau" in the lookup table you're using

In the datalink system, that would be it's own mesage type, so "Message 20" is "need x at y", where x is a predefined enumeration, and y is a formatted location.

The compromise between those two systems, is something capable of coordinating data between multiple computers. For example, the computer operator in classrooms at Waterlogged High could enter all his requests for materials, requests for transport, reports of weather, reports of damage, and reports of people, put them all onto a USB disk for the guy with a motocross bike to take to disaster-control so that it can be easily integrated with the "currently known information" store. How would that compare to simple VHF radios though -- the only extra advantage over radio would seem to be binary data, (e.g. photos) but is that important enough to worry about, and is sending formatted data by voice-radio efficient enough already?

So what software might be useful?
(*) A sourceforge project to coordinate Free Software technologies which would be useful in the event of natural disasters
(*) A preformatted wiki for such events, and perhaps a copy of wiki software which contains everything needed including the webserver and can operate off a USB key?
(*) A "simple" GIS system, basically capable of taking a map of any area and producing a coordinate system ("We're in square AB21") that can be published and distributed to help people report locations

Re:PEOPLE NEED FOOD, WATER, AND MEDICINE NOT INTER

[uncadonna]

Families have been split up. People need to find each other.

Groups of people are stuck on roofs and under underpasses. The buses and helicopters need to know where to go.

Information needs to be collected and disseminated from a lot of places.

That's where the tech comes in. These are not trivial needs now.

They should have been set up in advance, but like a lot of other things that should have been set up in advance, apparently they weren't.

Katrina

[Anonymous Coward]

So... remembering 9/11, have songs by Katrina and the Waves been banned from the airwaves yet?

You don't get it

[elucido]

While the victims don't, you seem to think that volunteers won't let victims use their laptop to contact their families? We need communications.

working throughout the weekend

[no-karma-no-worries]

FCC personnel are working throughout the weekend

working throughout the weekend, isn't that something?

Why is Ham being blocked??!

[Anonymous Coward]

there is way to much fishhy ness going on..
--ham radio operators are reporting that the New Orleans area is being jammed!
-there are explosions being reported..
-surrounding areas are ready but not allowed to go in and help(ie local airboaters blocked by FEMA?!)
-canada not allowed to help? US gov will not allow aid
-With HAARP and othere weird secret weather control and patterns and canada agreement with US agaist weather control near its borders..)-numous countries like russia, canada, germany have offered assistance... but no...
-specialized forces are tottaly ready to go but they do not want assistance.. bush is messed.. they got european assiatance trained on underwater rescue.. that with russian offer for free temp housing and military to assist.. oil from IRAN (thats right iran the place us next plans to attack for no reason!)

Re:Why is Ham being blocked??!

[t_allardyce]

i will hazard a guess that all those jamming systems in military radios (warlock?) are just being left on by default by GI-slows. It would be nice to think that this is a conspiracy as it would give the US government credit for being intelligent and organised - alas the reality is that they just didn't do their homework.

Re:Why is Ham being blocked??!

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot to mention all the UFO sightings. And Elvis clashing with the national guard.

Re:Why is Ham being blocked??!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oil from Iran? Hah. They are asking if we want their oil? What a bunch of morons. If we want their oil, we will just take it. No need to ask for permission. It's not like they could stop us. Being world's only superpower has some advantages.

Re:Why is Ham being blocked??!

[Anonymous Coward]

"-canada not allowed to help? US gov will not allow aid"

Not only canada. Here in Belgium there are a couple of planes ready to go with equipment,medical help, doctors, rescuers, engineers and volunteers. There are also plans to give some of our oil reserves.

But the last thing I have heared they are still waiting for a green light. The planes,for the past few days, are just sitting there on the tarmac. It seems that your government doesn't seem to want any help :s

Thank you. Someone had to say that.

[elucido]

Communication is essential for work, education, and a lot of other tasks which in the future will be important. These people are going to need jobs, and I'm sure some of these people are programers or could be trained. People need to be given a way to communicate even if its just to contact their family, and people in the far future will need communications to survive.

Re:Thank you. Someone had to say that.

[benjamindees]

people in the far future will need communications to survive.

What future is that? Are you saying we'll have to check in with the government every so often or be terminated?

Seriously, you all are out of touch. Sounds like you drank your own Kool-Aid. Take a camping trip.

Re:Thank you. Someone had to say that.

[ergo98]

What future is that? Are you saying we'll have to check in with the government every so often or be terminated?

OMG! IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD! PANIC! NOTHING MATTERS ANYMORE!

The myopia on here is astounding. Here's the thing, benjamindees - The Gulf coast will recover. Those people will probably want jobs, and will probably want normal essential infrastructures to get back and going in modern society. A tragedy happened, but ultimately things will get back to normal (a lot quicker than armchair quarterbacks like yourself think), and these things will be crucially important. Or do you think that it's all stone-age from here on in?

Re:PEOPLE NEED FOOD, WATER, AND MEDICINE NOT INTER

[Anonymous Coward]

The Mayor of New Orleans has been pretty clear about what he needs. Food, water, medicine, and busses to get people out so they stop rioting and looting. I believe the quote was "the president was talking about getting some school bus drivers down here. Thats' a joke. Get every greyhound bus in the country down here."

The mayor of NOLA is dumber than the prez-det then. School buses and drivers are far more numerous than Greyhounds. How many Greyhound buses do you see in a week? Now think how many school buses you see. There are probably more school buses in Baton Rouge alone than Greyhound has in its entire fleet.

Why tax the rich?

[elucido]

Why not instead HIRE THE POOR. If you are a CEO and you run a business and you want to do something to help these people, HIRE THEM.

That is where you can start, if you are in the private sector. We need to gather CEO's who care, and discuss how to help on that level.

Bless This Mess

[Anonymous Coward]

That's quite a rant, and I agree 100% with what they said about Anderson Cooper taking that senator to task. During the entire interview, she spoke without saying anything of substance and he, visibly upset, called her on it.

If you're interested, follow the links from the SA rant and you'll find a clip of the video.

Looks like I'm going

[puzzled]

  I was a presenter at one of the Wispcons a few yeasr back and I've got four skill sets they can't do without - I just talked with Michael, then filled out the form.

    I was in lower Manhattan for telecom type cleanup about four years ago but this is going to be a bit different - sounds like we'll saddle up and head out immediately. This means shots and maybe finding bodies during installs *gulp*.

  What am I getting myself into?

Re:Looks like I'm going

[JimmytheGeek]

I lack wifi skills, but if they need non-Tower certified but damn safe climbing, I'll be there.

Good luck, and keep your head down.

Re:Looks like I'm going

[puzzled]

  Finding climbers is always a problem. Mail me bliss at ignorant dot org and I'll see if there is a slot open for you.

Re: LOGIKAL FALICIES R GRATE

[Anonymous Coward]

That's funny. I don't see any attacks on the US since I created an invisible pink unicorn to protect us. I guess you can come up with a list of attacks that happened, and were not prevented by my invisible pink unicorn's magic?

you can't?

Then you clearly don't know what your talking about

read the first line of the constitution...

[jjn1056]

...and you will see that it is certainly the role of government to be leading the response to this crisis.

It is the reason why we the people allow the gov't to exist at all and impose itself on our freedom and liberty.

Gov't doesn't justify itself.

Am I the only one

[Wolfier]

Who doesn't want to donate to a country whose government just spent 150+ Billions on war funds?

I'm a Canadian, and have donated a lot for many different causes.

This time, I'll say let them help themselves.

If not receiving any aid can help bring GWB down, so be it.

Re:Am I the only one

[GoofyBoy]

>If not receiving any aid can help bring GWB down, so be it.

You need to read up on the 22nd Amendment of the American Constitution. GWB has nothing to lose.

Re:Am I the only one

[Anonymous Coward]

True.

Well, it can help make sure the next government is not a right wing conservative Christian fundamentalist one.

collection points for various forms of assistance

[tcyun]

Resources for Sharing Information and Offering Help

Katrina housing offers

Red Cross (a bit obvious, but just in case)

Next of Kin registry/a>

probably has to do with race and economic issues

[jjn1056]

you know there is a lot of frustration in the US over the different between rich and poor and between the races. However at this moment I'd would ask people to put their philosophical ramblings aside and concentrate on relief.

Being someone who was in NYC when the World Trade Center came down, I know how much worse it felt when I could see my personal tragedy was being hijacked by various people and groups for political agendas.

There is no doubt this event should lead to some serious soul searching in America. Unfortunately it probably won't with the government we have. So I think in the end people who live through it will end up feeling a little like the way I felt. I know what I lived through and I know what I think it means and I know what I am going to teach my children.

It seems then the only useful thing is to ask oneself what can I do to help? If you don't have a good answer then please ask yourself, well what can I do to respect the people to whom this happened and not make it worse?

RTFA

[Baldrson]

First, you don't understand what I was saying should be done. I said the bounty should be for telecom services delivered.

Second, yes this does require the authorities on the ground to communicate their needs but if the authorities on the ground can't even communicate their needs then how the hell can the FCC say the needs are critical let alone (if you RTFA) "coordinate these efforts with private industry, with wireless technology groups, FEMA, and state governments in Mississippi, Louisiana, etc".

Indeed, you just describe exactly what the FCC is asking to do except replace words like "buy" with "donate.

Re:DONATE NOW - don't leave out the critters

[Anonymous Coward]

Food For Life
Serving vegetarian and vegan food
http://ffl.org/

Noah's Wish
helping domestic Animals
http://www.noahswish.com/

United Animal Nations
More Cat and Dog help
http://www.uan.org/news/090205.html

Re:PEOPLE NEED FOOD, WATER, AND MEDICINE NOT INTER

[Anonymous Coward]

1 word . . . . COMMUNICATION

I have a wi-fi hotspot I have setup at home and you can't possibly imagine the ammount of traffic from people trying to communicate with other in areas effected. So sit down shutup and go find your corner.

Ham Radio is DEAD!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ham radio was completely useless following Katrina.
Cell Phones are all working perfectly helping coordinate a prompt rescue and relief while "Hams" stare cluelessly at their obsolete useless hobby gear.Bring on BPL and auction off all that valuable frequecy spectrum.
HAM RADIO IS DEAD!

Re:Ham Radio is DEAD!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ham radio completely useless following Katrina? While there may not be many hams in NOLA because the feds won't let them in, there are plenty in other affected areas. NTS is more active right now than it has been in a long time. Also, have you heard the SATERN nets?

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Pick up a general coverage HF receiver or go borrow one from a ham or SWL. Actually listen to what's on the air before you start spouting ignorant bullshit.

Katrina help wiki

[l00sr]

Check out the Katrina help wiki. There are sections for people willing to volunteer and others who are posting for aid, among other general resources.

THIS SAYS IT ALL

[Philip K Dickhead]

Sometimes an emailer says it better than I ever could. Read this. Read all of it. You know why I endorsed Kerry last time? Not because I liked Kerry or ever dreamed of backing him. I'm not a liberal. I'm not a Bush-hater. I backed the war. Initially, I trusted and supported this president to the hilt at a time of great danger. But I was forced to back Kerry of all people because Bush's gross incompetence at a time of national peril was simply too great a risk to continue. Now we have the proof:

"I've considered myself a socially libertarian, fiscally conservative Republican for a very long time. I got along with the idea that I wasn't going to get a whole lot of help. College wouldn't be free. Job training would cost money and time. And I'm probably a decent example of up-from-not-much.

But after watching what's happening in New Orleans-an American city that I've loved, visited and have always wanted to return to - I can't ever vote for these people again.

Being a Republican means that you expect the government to do just a couple things for you and nothing else. Build a road. Defend us from enemies, foreign and domestic. Stuff that would be a lot less organized if we all had to do it ourselves. Everything else is just gravy.

And as we poured money into Department of Homeland Security, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency, I thought, "Right on," because some of that money's bound to fall on my head.

Well, something else would fall on my head first.

I work for the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. And that means that if something really catastrophic happens in MY city, and they ask me to stick around, that's the job. We have A and B teams and I'm a disaster recovery specialist on Team A. I've drawn up plans with names like Drawbridge and Smoldering Crater.

Here's what these people would do for me.

They would leave me there to die.

Look at the facts. There's no coordination on the ground right now. The city has no fresh water, no electricity, no services. The floodwater has so much oil and toxins in it that it's flammable.

In psychology they have what is called a fight-or-flight response. When faced with danger, do you subdue it or do you flee? Some of it has to do with risk assessment, but in this case, there is no flight. There is nowhere to run. So flight means die. If my choice was to pull a pistol on a truck driver or Nat, Jarren, Jayson, or any of you dies, that's no choice at all.

I'm not talking about the looters grabbing big-screen televisions and basketball hoops. I'm talking about the ones that are chest-deep in water carrying bottled water and diapers. You can't tell me for three days to be patient, the bus is coming, and they're piling up bodies in the street median.

We have known that this sort of disaster could occur for a century. Hell, the tour bus driver told me about it on the plantation tour. This means that we have been able to envision the stark reality of this occurring for a week-the newspapers all said the storm would hit New Orleans last Thursday.

A week to get buses? A week to get fishing boats? Trucks? This is the United States! I read someone who said, "All the people who weren't bedridden, or had money, or had cars left. The people that are left had none of those things."

There are people tonight who are going to sleep on overpasses for the fourth straight night. There are prisoners who will do the same. There are people dying at a convention center because no one will tell them that no one is coming for them, and the National Guard is protecting the kitchens. There are police officers who are turning in their badges because they've lost everything, have no guidance, and don't want to be shot by a looter.

There are people tonight inside a concrete domed stadium with holes in the roof and no air conditioning who were told the buses are coming today, and they might, or they might not. There is no food. There is no water. There are bodies floating through the

Re:THIS SAYS IT ALL

[JimmytheGeek]

Amen.

Dammit.

It pisses me off, fuckwits voting a brand rather than what's best for the country or even what's in their own interests.

We saw this guy freeze like a deer in the headlights when he got the word about the second plane. He's all mouth, all posing. Dressing up in a flight suit a mile off the San Diego beaches does not make you a warrior.

And we fucking voted him back. Because his advertising made some of us more comfortable with his brand. Chevy is for flip-floppers! A guy whose aggressive tactics in countering ambushes was adopted by the rest of the navy patrol craft is a wimp next to the (needless and incompetently prosecuted) War President. R-i-i-i-i-ght.

And we bought it.

Yeah, he'd leave you and yours to die. He'd kick them off the bus to make enough room to stretch out. He'd put his friends on. He'd put his furnature on. And leave you without a thought.

to clarify "guvvie"

[Baldrson]

When I say "guvvie" in this context I am of course alluding to companies like Haliburton who receive the buddy-buddy pork from FEMA et al. I don't call checks for bounties pork since its a fair contest to decide who gets the check and there's no favoritism for people who share the same preferences as other guvvies.

Basically if people are serious about fixing the problems with New Orleans, as I said, their volunteerism should be directed at correcting the behavior of FEMA/FCC and the rest of the guvvie/buddy-buddy system with all due urgency -- that means NOW.

The Great Compassionate USA

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazing how much money and resources the USA is prepared to plow into a war for oil on the otherside of the planet ... but when his own people are in a crisis they turn there back on them .. how many days ahs it been now?

be on the lookout for fake websites like this:

[brad3378]

I got this from an email message and I'm still trying to calm down. Somebody is solititing donations while pretending to represent the American Red Cross. Note the fake website address

http://www.redcross.org. cgiin.net /Proccessing.html

I'd love to see this guy's face on an FBI's most wanted list. I wonder if some hacker could help get this guy caught?

Original message below:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Subject: Individual donation-Hurricane Katrina
From: "AMERICAN RED CROSS" Add to Address
BookAdd to Address Book
Date: 03 Sep 2005 17:35:52

  WASHINGTON, Friday, September 02, 2005 * The American Red Cross has
launched an immense emergency relief effort to meet unprecedented
humanitarian needs in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

  The American Red Cross, with support of the worldwide Red Cross,
EarthLink, Comcast, Yahoo, SBC Group, Google, Microsoft, NBC, CNBC and
Red
Crescent Movement is launching a Web site and hotline to help raise
money by encouraging viewers to donate to the American Red Cross
Disaster
Relief Fund.

  Follow the link bellow and You can and will help the victims of
Hurricane Katrina:
http://www.redcross.org.cgiin.net/Proccessing.html

  Financial contributions to the American Red Cross are tax-deductible.

  Thank you for supporting the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund.

Sincerely,
Red Cross Team.

This is not a good time for Trolling

[infonography]

Please stick to real practical issues relating to ideas to help the victims. I am happy to troll and get involved in flame/political wars, but this isn't one of those times. I am sticking this a bit higher in the thread but I am really discusted with some of the off topic comments here today. Can you people please stop typing with one hand for one day?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Ham radio operators have batteries and generators

[Rick17JJ]

Many of the ham radio operatiors around the country are already preprared for emergency operation with batteries, small generators and other equipment. They typically have several radios at home and at least one in their car, truck or RV. Sometimes I see them driving around town with a small antenna farm on the roof of their car. Ham radio clubs in nearly every city around the country have an annual "field day" where they set up their equipment at remote locations. Many ham radio operators are also members of an orgination that does regular emergence communication drills (I forget what that organization is called).

Where I live in Arizona, city officials and local hams, for years, have been working together to be prepared for emergencies. I remember how thoroughly they prepared together for Y2K. As Y2K approached local hams with plenty of batteries and other equipment were pre-positioned at hospitals, police stations, fire stations and other key locations. At some of those locations they still have their own antenna on the roof. The city itself had installed diesel backup generators at the city sewage treatment plant and at each of the wells for the city water system.

I have never really been active in ham radio although I do have a general class license. Many hams are already prepared to communicate with each other across thousands of miles or across town without the help of electricty from the power company. If their antennas get blown down they can quicky set up a simple wire antenna hanging from a tree. Many are already set up for long distance communication while operating from their car, truck or RV. They can communicate using voice, various digital modes or CW (Morse Code). Some hams even use slow-scan television or ham radio satellites. Perhaps they should just try to send more ham radio operators into the area.

is intelligence hereditary?

[Xtifr]

Actually, the original question is not as dumb as it sounds. (And no, I'm not going to bring up anti-scientific bullshit like Idiotic Design.) One might as readily ask, is strength hereditary? The answer is, somewhat-but-mostly-not. The capacity for strength (and possible limits) are hereditary, but strength itself is developed through exercise. Within the ranges allowed by heredity, one can develop a magnificent physique or turn into a lard-butt. And, unlike muscle, the brain does most of its growth in the very early years; thus early stimulus is far more important to the development of intelligence.

Secondly, "intelligence" is not really a thing. It's a combination of a number of brain functions. We've reified it into a single thing, but it's not. Even something as simple as running speed is actually a combination of factors: leg length (hereditary), muscle tone (developed), lung capacity (some of both), etc. And what we call "intelligence" is far more complicated than that.

There is a sort of myth that genes map to traits, but nature is rarely that simple or straightforward. Most of what we would recognize as traits are tied to combinations of genes. And on top of that, what we might call "capacity-for-intelligence" is based on a large number of traits. And individual genes are far more widely spread through our gene pool than most people realize.

Clearly there are genetic components to intelligence, but at the same time, the simplistic, eugenic "solutions" this suggest are, frankly, idiotic. As is the thread-starter--evolution takes place on a timescale of millions of years, not hundreds or even thousands. The so-called "Darwin Awards", for example, are sadly misleading and sadly misnnamed. Killing a few thousand idiots may increase the average IQ of our species, but is highly unlikely to "improve the gene pool". (Even assuming that we were smart enough to quantify such "improvement", which is highly doubtful.)

Iraq

[nuggz]

After Canada refused to help in Iraq? That would cause the politicians more loss of face than they are willing.

Conveniently Iraq was a political hot potato on both sides of the Can/US border. With both countries pretty much in a 50/50 split on public opinion.
The Canadian government just happened to stumble around like idiots which really didn't help the US.
Unfortunately the US didn't focus public attention on how the "allies" were in Afghanistan, and it really is a lot to ask many of these countries to invade 2 countries at the same time.
Would have been a nice way to save face for everyone, and it was missed.

Re:Ham radio operators have batteries and generato

[Snorpus]

Perhaps they should just try to send more ham radio operators into the area.

The ARRL is now seeking volunteers for deployment to the Gulf Coast area, to assist with Red Cross feeding and sheltering operations.

The Amateur Radio Emergency Services exist to provide communications support the operations of governmental, health, and welfare organizations, such as the Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc. We do not operate as an independent entity, so while your idea of sending a lot more hams sounds good, without the organizations that provide search and rescue, food and water, shelter, etc., we wouldn't be much help.

They're looking for laptop, LCD monitor,

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't want any stinkin CB radios or ham radios. They're looking for those gigahertz pentium with big LCD/TFT monitor and laptop.

And to hook those pc and laptop up, they need those 802.11g or faster accesspoint

Logistics

[Snorpus]

But the last thing I have heared they are still waiting for a green light. The planes,for the past few days, are just sitting there on the tarmac. It seems that your government doesn't seem to want any help.

I think the U.S. government is holding back on giving the go-ahead until it can be determined where the stuff needs to go. Right now, it appears (to me) that there isn't an absolute shortage of food, water, etc., but rather it's not where the people who need it are. And since Katrina affected only a relatively small part of a 1st world nation, it's probably faster to ship food, water, clothing, etc. from other parts of the country, instead of from overseas. And I don't know if you can airlift those big semi-trailers that convoyed to the Astrodome through 4 foot water.

There wouldn't be much point to send doctors and nurses, if there's no way to get them to the shelters. Ditto food and water.

Back in the 1990/91 Gulf War, there was a general (Horner?) who was in charge of getting all the "stuff" needed to wage a modern war to the Persian Gulf. Sounds like they need to find him, or his clone.

The Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES)

[Rick17JJ]

The is at least one large organized group of hams already set up for emergencies which is called the Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES). They work in cooperation and their webpage says that the "local ARES operation will usually take the form of nets--HF nets, VHF (repeater) nets, even RTTY, packet or other special-mode nets, depending on need and resources available."

Here are a couple of non-ham related thoughts I have had on emergency communications. I know a couple who travel around the country with a motorhome with "WiFi" hot spot sign on the front. I asked how they did that when he did not have a telephone line where he was staying. He said that he had an internet connection through his small satellite disk. The neighbors with laptops could use his WiFi hotspot. Many RVs are quite self-contained with their own generator, water tank, propane powered refrigerator, propane powered stove and heater and a holding tank for the toilet and so forth. They are desined to stay for several days where there is no electricity or water. I do not know if the roads going into those emergency areas would be accessable to an RV or not. I wonder if something like that with both a WiFi hot spot plus a ham with both shortwave and VHF communications might be useful (I'm just thinking).

Here in Arizona, the local hams and the search and rescue team fixed up an old 4WD army ambulance (or something like that) from the 50's as a search and rescue command and control vehicle. It has an antenna farm on the roof and laptop computers inside. I believe that the sheriffs office or someone gave them the old army ambulance. If I remember correctly, I heard that they put a new engine in the vehicle and repainted it several years ago. I hope I am describing it correctly, since I am not involved with them. I did peek through the door of the vehicle once

Just before Y2k, I had heard that either the city or county had installed an extra fuel tank so that the fire trucks and other emergency vehicles would not run out of fuel in the weeks after Y2K. I was surprised to hear about fire trucks running out of fuel in New Orleans. They must have not prepared for hurricanes as well as a certain town in the mountains of Arizona prepared for Y2K?

Community Wireless Network Infastructure

[mailseth]

The project that I'm working on now, CUWiN (Champaign-Urbana Community Wireless Network), would be useful in setting up the last-mile network down there.

Here is the home page:
http://cuwireless.net/

Here is the latest documentation (that I am working on, tell me how you like it):
http://pricepages.org/temp/doco_outline.html

Warning: It's not even beta quality yet...

www.ksat.org

[foxyvoxy]

We're doing what we can. We put together a projects with RVs, Satellite Broadband, laptops and other items which will head to Mississippi in a couple of days. We're going to Biloxi to help get information out of there. I must say that it's been a battle with Fema but I think we're all clear finally. Obviously we're still seeking donations, as this is a private effort, so if any of you go to the site and believe in the project enough we'd be grateful for financial contributions to pay for fuel. We've got about everything else we thought we'd need. Private aid vs government aid will surely be something we all talk about over the next month. We're just a small piece of such a complex event, but we'll do what we can/are allowed to do.

Re:Ham Radio is DEAD! Post is sarcasm dumbfuck

[Anonymous Coward]

DumbAss!!
With a station and a generator or even a handhled with batteries Amatuer radio works fine it is the cell infrastructure that was toasted.
Post is obviously sarcasm
"cell phones working perfectly coordinating prompt rescue and recovery"

Tech Aid..

[lennywood1]

The company I work for is already helping, they've donated voice lines and bandwidth for the red cross and other agencies at the various shelters. Kind of impressive to see SBC deliver a bundle of T1's in about 12 hours for these sites. I still think they should be taking the legacy IT gear that we have here and setting it up for the people in the shelters so they can send email, keep in contact with family, etc.

let them eat cake

[enrgeeman]

i seem to remember from english class(i know, that's not saying much) that the cake referring to the dough that was left in the tray after making bread. the stuff that didn't come out. not a cake like a big chocolate cake type of thing we think of today when people say cake.

Sat at 3PM EST?

[Anonymous Coward]

How solid are they on the Saturday at 3PM deadline for sign-up? I had been looking for ways to volunteer my skills (MCSE, CCNP) since Wednesday, but read this too late. I signed up anyway, but does anyone have other ways for me to sign up and volunteer?

What do you expect people to do?

[elucido]

I mean seriously, unless you want them to leave the country (which I suspect most will), they will NEED communications. They need contact with the outside world. They need to be connected, posting blogs, etc.

I don't know how you can be crazy enough to figure that students or people who work don't want the ability to communicate.

As much as you tell people to go back to nature, it does not change the fact that we live in America. These people are homeless, what are we going to do? Not rebuild at all?

Ok, if we arent going to rebuild, lets give them free plane tickets leave this country so they can rebuild somewhere else. Otherwise we need communication. If you are afraid the government will control it, then use wifi. Pool your money and invent a solution.

"Do something!"

[StupidKatz]

Okay, /., let's go fix this mess!

Everyone quit your job.
Pack up and get to LA as fast as possible (we'll get there Monday).
Divide into two camps: those that don't like firearms, those that are armed to the teeth.
Converge on NO: half get turned back, half of the others are shot by police as they rush past. Another half of those drop dead in the flooded streets due to sheer exhaustion (they were desk jockeys!) About this time, the remainder of the /.ers are starting to realize maybe they're not the best ones to be trying anything right about now, but before they can do anything else, another half are killed by roving bands of thugs (although the armed-to-the-teeth nerds happened to inflict enough damage to the thugs that things were relatively peaceful for the next day or so). Everyone else flees into the waiting arms of the police, only to be sent to the Superdome.

Hm, tell you what: YOU go first.

Re:"Do something!"

[topaz0]

1) I wish I could 2) There are more ways to do something than going directly there and breaking through the police barriers. We just need to fix all of the corruption and confusion in the agencies that can do something on the scene. 3) I guess /. is too cynical about everything to do anything anyway.

Re:"Do something!"

[StupidKatz]

My point was, they've got people and supplies already. The average /.er can't "do anything" to actually help the folks in NO at this point* (unless you're a praying man).

Could you have forced the mayor to stockpile supplies, or made him move his fleet of 200 school busses so they would be potentially useful later?

Could you have moved ~30,000-60,000 people who couldn't leave? Or forcibly evacuated those that did not want to leave (let the civil rights people have a heyday with that one)?

Could you have handled the supposedly rampant violent crime problem, or made folks stop shooting at rescuers?

There are many ills that need curing, yes. Yes, some in the government. Some, however, are in society itself. When you have an answer to cure society's ills (which will then sort out most of the governmental ills on its own within a decade or so, once people start taking their duty as citizens seriously), and a method to get everyone to abide by them, let the rest of us know.

*Donating cash is the exception, but won't directly help much at this point.

Re:"Do something!"

[topaz0]

Well as far as I know we are just as much a part of society as anybody else. And there are things we can do. We can host refugees, for instance. We could even just help enter data into databases of missing people. I know most of the problem came from bad planning, or failure to plan, but that doesn't mean there is nothing to do about it now.

Re:"Do something!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, you know about hindsight?

It's 20/20.

Re:"Do something!"

[StupidKatz]

What about the folks in Oregon? Should they host refugees? What about the auto mechanics? Should they do data-entry?
Maybe we join the National Guard and head down there? Or buy a boat and start motoring around in what's left?

Frankly, no, at this point, *right now*, there is nothing more to be done, unless you feel like paying the bill, or going vigilante on the few criminals that are causing trouble down there.

I was talking about 1. why people lived there in the first place ("legitimate" reasons or not), 2. why many folks saved NO money and/or chose to stay, 3. and why disaster response organizations weren't on hand immediately afterwards. There WAS 48 hours' notice that it was a likely Category 5, and going to hit N.O.

The answers will shed light on all sorts of serious problems, from some cases of real poverty, to artificial poverty; no trust in our leaders at any given level; laziness and lack of foresight (both people and gov't), etc., etc., etc.

The thing to do *now* is plan how you will take care of you and yours in an emergency that may happen in your own area. While you're at it, make a Plan B, too.

Ignore parent.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oops! I somehow posted this very witty and insightful comment (the parent) in the wrong place. Please ignore it.
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Anonymous Coward