Slashdot Mirror
FCC Seeks Tech Donations for Katrina Aid
An anonymous reader writes "BoingBoing is reporting on the FCC accepting donations of tech services and equipment: 'Lack of communications systems has been identified as a critical issue holding back aid, missing persons, law enforcement, etc. in crisis areas.
FCC personnel are working throughout the weekend to coordinate these efforts with private industry, with wireless technology groups, FEMA, and state governments in Mississippi, Louisiana, etc.' Efforts are being organized through PART-15.ORG."
would be a good start, no licenses required to operate, just plug in and go and they are cheap and have good range, its the citizens band after all
Find it disgusting that emergency aid workers have to beg for money to provide vital equipment to people who are dying?
This in a country that has spent nearly 200 Billion on an unnecessary war in a far off land.
My pics.
I thought the HAM operators would come in handy during times like these. Where they be?
Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
Can we depend on the federal government? Should we donate or just let the private sector handle it?
It seems that there is a quite a bit of donations coming from various corporations, but I haven't noticed any http://www.riaa.com/RIAA contributions. I think that they could spare few bucks from the "frivulous suit campaign".
The solution is simple:
Volunteerism should be directed toward getting various vendors of telecom equipment to agree on a set of rules that they consider fair for awarding a bounty for telecommunications area coverage and then sign a petition to the FCC or preferably FEMA which would administer the FCC's role, presenting the rules.
For example, let's say there's a tent city with estimated population 10,000. There is an estimated need for 1% peak load or 100 virtual circuits each capable of carrying a SIP call. FEMA pays $1000/day for each circuit. Right-of-ways are rented from FEMA with the highest bidder gaining control of the right-of-way for some minimum lease period, say a week. In the case of 802.11* this would mean spectrum allocation would operate as "land rent" system.
How fast would those 100 SIP circuits go up?
Seastead this.
Now would be a fantastic opportunity to install a citywide Wi-Fi network. If the ILEC was ever going to do it and get good press for it, now is the time. Could Intel use another test bed for Wi-Max?
Cheney no longer has stock in Halliburton. Seriously, though, I haven't seen Cheney since the campaign.
"The more corrupt a society, the more numerous are its laws." -Tacticus
He is too busy looting Iraq.
Why is it small potatoes exactly? The cost in human lives and property damage is far higher, and the situation is worse in every measurable way. The war didn't prevent any attacks on the US. I'm sure Saddamn would have loved to take a crack at us, if he could, but he was an extremely secular leader (not associated with the religious nutjobs in Al-Qaeda) who would not have jeopardized his situation through a terrorist attack on the US. SCUDs didn't have nearly the range to hit the US. They could barely hit Israel. Afghanistan is a warzone with no infrastructure (we destroyed it all) largely controlled by regional warlords. Neither Afghanistan nor Iraq had the navy or airpower to attack the US. Period. All we're doing is giving foreign nationals (most of the terrorists in either country are from Saudi, Pakistan, and other countries) experience fighting that they would have gotten in Chechnya before so they can hit us harder next time once they know our tactics. Stop posting bullshit.
"The more corrupt a society, the more numerous are its laws." -Tacticus
Cheney no longer has stock in Halliburton
Not true. Cheney has stock options, but thier unexercied. Likewise, he has defered compensation which he likely will reap upon completion of the second term.
I dislike the administration as much as the next guy, but Cheney has nothing invested in the way, financially. Halliburton is getting an assload of money without having to bid for contracts like everybody else, but Cheney hasn't gotten the kickbacks (yet). It's very possible that he'll just go back to Halliburton when he gets out of the government and get a giant bonus, but it's not happening now.
"The more corrupt a society, the more numerous are its laws." -Tacticus
What is the news about power over there? I think lack of power would be a major problem for the 'techy' rescue/aid operations?
This is my sig. There are thousands more, but this one is mine.
There are plenty of people who wanted to leave but they simply didn't have the resources to do so.
Remember, much of the population in New Orleans is poor to very poor. Most of these people have no cars of their own to use.
Lord High Crapflooder The Right Honourable Vlad Craig Esther McDavenpherson III
Destroyer of Mercatur.Net
The deferred compensation is his salary. They spread it out over a few years to avoid taxes. I should have said, Cheney is not making any money off of his stock options. It's true that he still has stock that expires in 2007, but all after-tax proceeds are forfeit while he's in office.
"The more corrupt a society, the more numerous are its laws." -Tacticus
What I am curious about is what percentage of the people left behind in New Orleans had the means to evacuate the city but chose not to for some stupid reason. 50%? 75%? Regardless of the answer the government has a responsibility to help those that are left.
Basically its coming down to a decision of the people. This is a moral issue moreso than a financial issue.
So lets discuss the morality of the situation. We should also discuss the financial impact. This situation has the potential to not only crash our economy but put us into a depression.
Correction :
And the next thing is that Zonk is going to post this to the front page OVER AND OVER AGAIN!
This is my sig. There are thousands more, but this one is mine.
Can anyone really say the government is doing a good job in how its handling this situation?
Would you prefer these victims stay in the dome forever?
It's criminal negligence that our government took 5 days to get food and water (and law and order) to these people.
After all of the money that has gone to "Homeland Security", you'd think the government wouldn't have to ask for donations for a predicted disaster.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
http://www.somethingawful.com/
SA was apparently hosted there so has gone down ("either underwater or strapped to the roof of a stolen vehicle that is also underwater.").
They've got a page up at the moment with their feelings about the whole business which is worth a read (scroll down a bit till you get to "Bless This Mess")
People killed, property destroyed, mass reverted at "Lord of the Flyes" level. And people talking about WiMax and Ham radio.
We, spoiled people of the Old Continent (maybe too old) are much more concerned about the human regression of the citizens of New Orleans that with tech. Did you have a look at Phuket Tsunami?
MUCH MORE TRAGIC outcome, much more dead people and yet a cooperative environment, without people harassing others or pillaging the neighbourhood and without problems with the volunteers.
There must be something really scaring below the thin surface of the common US citizen (or maybe under every "first world" one), something deeply wrong with a lot of people, whose first instinct is to go arming themselves as it was not a catastrophe, but some kind of Apocalypse B Movie.
I've worked with refugees and indeed lend a helping hand in Pukhet zones, but have never ONCE seen the global and total madness generated by Katrina.
ANd I am more than a little scared, you know?
-
Grammar Zealotes, please spare a non-english writer
Grammar Zealots: please spare a non-english writer (lastknight dot com)
Perhaps the FCC should use some of the money they've collected in indecency fines to help fund relief efforts in New Orleans.
Or what says the MPAA, RIAA, or telecoms. Millions have undoubtedly poured into the vaults of lobyists and influential members of the organization. Let they help pay. After all, I'm sure that much of the repairs will go to the telecom infrastruture, adding up to nothing more than welfare for SBC, Comcast, Verizon or whatever Bell controls communications in that are. We will repair thier networks, and then still get stiffed with the same fees w/o open access for competitors.
It seems less a problem of intelligence, but more one of money. Without a car and no place to go, its difficult to leave the city.
Evolution is about the survival of the finest, not the luckiest (at long run).
My city: Barcelona.
You're assuming, of course, that intelligence is hereditary.
"Yields falsehood when preceded by its own quotation" yields falsehood when preceded by its own quotation.
You have a valid point. Many said they did not want to leave. Case in point. "The musician's agent Al Embry had earlier said that nobody had seen Domino since he told people he was planning to 'ride out' the storm at his low-lying home. " From the bbcnews article... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4206622.s tm
Clearly Fats Domino had the means to get out of New Orleans, just not the common sense.
It might prove interesting to play back interviews with New Orleans residents who were interviewed before the storm and why they said they weren't leaving.
People have no clothing, food, or water. They certainly don't have laptops with Wifi cards. Most of the people who were left behind could never afford a computer or even internet service. Many of them probably never owned a cell phone, either.
A cell network restricted to rescue/aid staff (nobody else has a good enough reason to be crowding a precious communications resource) and a couple of banks of free payphones for people to call loved ones to let them know they're alive- would do just fine.
Please help metamoderate.
American Red Cross
p
o nate?openform&projectid=USN-hurricane05
i na/donate/
i event=67898
g ename=usw_hurricane_katrina
O N=SHOW_DONATION_OPTIONS&CAMPAIGN_ID=2661
d efault.aspx?media=habitat&lander=MP&sourcecode=10w 39&tg=katrina&keyword=homepage_08302005
Provides a full spectrum of services to disaster victims, including shelter, medical care, food, clean water and assisting with cleanup efforts.
http://www.redcross.org/
https://www2.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.as
Salvation Army:
Providing hot meals to displaced disaster victims and emergency personnel working to aid those devastated by Hurricane Katrina.
http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/USNSAHome.htm
https://secure5.salvationarmy.org/donations.nsf/d
United Way
Identifying serious needs of devastated communities and helping not only with front-line disaster relief but with long-term recovery.
http://national.unitedway.org/
https://volunteer.united-e-way.org/hurricane-katr
America's Second Harvest
Transports food to victims and secures additional warehouse space to assist member food banks in resuming and maintaining operations.
http://www.secondharvest.org/default.asp
https://www.kintera.org/AutoGen/Simple/Donor.asp?
Feed the Children
Mobilizing and distributing supplies in hurricane devastated areas.
http://www.feedthechildren.org/site/PageServer?pa
https://secure2.convio.net/ftc/site/Donation?ACTI
Habitat for Humanity
Helping disaster victims rebuild piece by piece and house by house.
http://www.habitat.org/
https://www.habitat.org/donation/generaldonation/
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/03/katrina.unus edgear/index.html
Forget coordinating donations.
Take the available equipment you ALREADY have, and use it.
As for immediate help, deploy the appropriate military units from the US and accept assistance from allied nations (ie Canada).
1) Nationalize State militias.
2) Make entire country dependent on just-in-time everything.
3) Send military (and militias) to fight a needless war.
4) Add layers of bureaucracy to emergency response.
5) Stop spending money on infrastructure.
6) Hurricane
7) ???
8) profit!!!
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
To evacuate you must belive some other people that says you than you must leave your home, your friends and your work because maybe there is a catrastophic disaster. People is smart enought to not believe every body all the time.
People haven't evolutionated to cope with such catrastophic disasters. Education it's the way humans can avoid the lack of information. That's why we have such a big brains, to put information into.
So it's a problem of education, not a problem of inteligence. Better education allow better judgement. No education at all allow intelligent people do stupid things.
My city: Barcelona.
They had quite a few days notice, they could have simply walked away.
The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
Here you go! /. collectively has resources, experience, and sufficient assets to band together and work on a finding a solution to a real problem, rather than debating about what Ballmer is saying about Google.
The reason something like this might not work is because big government and big corporate cultures are now so buddy-buddy that the very idea of a fair competition where little guys could just get bounty for solving the problem first is anathema.
You don't get around that by hoping that the big government guys can collect a bunch of volunteers and equipment and coordinate the allocation of those resources. What you end up with is some bureaucrats who can just sit on their butts being important in an emergency.
THAT is a PROVEN path to failure.
Seastead this.
I readed on a spanish news web (English Google Translation) that Bush is rejecting international help. That's correct?
Because from Europe we can (and want) to help USA as USA has helped us and other countries in the past. But George W. Bush isn't very popular in the old Europe, and his word aren't helping.
Because tech is important, but airplanes, police , firemen... are more important.
The result?
Idiocy such as you just described.
Reverse that and you have a much more robust laboratory of the states and even laboratory of the counties localities with far more sovereignty, responsibility and capability of responding to their own problems.
Seastead this.
Webcams? What? There's a 24 hour curfew. They're evacuating everyone. National Guard should be patrolling with orders to detain anyone and get them to evacuation centers, and if they get shot at- give a warning, and then shoot to kill and move on. Policing New Orleans is probably simpler than it ever was- and it will only get easier as they finish the evacuation.
Once order is established, take all that money for wireless access points, webcams...take all those consultants etc...and hand them wader boots. Have them cart water, food, and medicine to people. Go door to door searching for survivors. Go to the relief centers to help there. Because THAT is what we need. A simple radio network will suffice for short term communications (National Guard and HAM operators can probably help there more than anyone else) and should be easy given the lack of interference. Cell service would be a luxury, and suggesting ANYONE needs 802.11b is absolutely stupid. This is a bunch of vendors saying "hey, we'll help, but only if you let us use our most expensive, fancy, unnecessary equipment". You don't deploy a VoIP network, when the cost of one VoIP router will buy you a dozen hand-held radios. You don't give one person a nice big steak with roasted potatoes when you can give 1000 people rice.
PEOPLE NEED FOOD, WATER, AND MEDICINE. THEY NEED TO BE EVACUATED STILL. THEY DO NOT NEED LAPTOPS WITH INTERNET ACCESS. THEY NEED VOLUNTEERS MOVING THAT FOOD, WATER, AND MEDICINE- NOT SETTING UP #$@!ING WEBCAMS. The Mayor of New Orleans has been pretty clear about what he needs. Food, water, medicine, and busses to get people out so they stop rioting and looting. I believe the quote was "the president was talking about getting some school bus drivers down here. Thats' a joke. Get every greyhound bus in the country down here."
Please help metamoderate.
The private sector IS in charge. I mean really if you donate to the redcross, what exactly can they do? Can they provide jobs? can they provide education?
People need the ability to work their way out of this. It's going to take a lot of hard work, not just donations to the redcross. So who is going to do the work? The private sector does the work.
A tax on the floating, off-shore casinos would some way towards helping out You know, the barges that pushed ashore by the high winds.
Jesus you're retarded
The war didn't prevent any attacks on the US.
And you know that how?
I'm sure Saddamn would have loved to take a crack at us, if he could, but he was an extremely secular leader (not associated with the religious nutjobs in Al-Qaeda) who would not have jeopardized his situation through a terrorist attack on the US. SCUDs didn't have nearly the range to hit the US. They could barely hit Israel.
And he funded suicided bombers in Israel.
Afghanistan is a warzone with no infrastructure (we destroyed it all) largely controlled by regional warlords.
Are you retarded or what? There is *MORE* infrastructure in Afghanistan than there were before the recent war. Afghanistan has been fucked by decades of war and now they are finally on the path to prospoerity. Stop reading the NY times.
Neither Afghanistan nor Iraq had the navy or airpower to attack the US.
Yeah, like that's how they would choose to attack the US. Has nothing to do with them funding and homing the terrorists.
Period. All we're doing is giving foreign nationals (most of the terrorists in either country are from Saudi, Pakistan, and other countries) experience fighting that they would have gotten in Chechnya before so they can hit us harder next time once they know our tactics.
Or maybe the YOU are learning their tactics? I mean, if they attack the US they aren't going to be attacking in a conventional way and therefore aren't going to be confronted by an ARMY force are they?
On the other hand, the military are understanding how the extremists work and at the same time are seeding liberty in countries which could certainly benefit from it. Look at Afghanistan for an example. They've made amazing progress in such a short amount of time and many countries (and the UN) are ensuring success. Admittedly Iraq is not as successful (yet).
Stop posting bullshit.
After you.
make a difference and stop bullshitting
Editors: Please have a little more consideration of SlashDot readers than this.
You're assuming, of course, that intelligence is hereditary.
Given:
1) Evolution is correct, and
2) Humans evolved intelligence,
That would have to be true.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
It's not disgusting that they have to ask for donations...it's a friggin' disaster area down here! Aid agencies and emergency workers ask for money all year round, disaster or not. Is that begging? Some people in this country living under a rock have just realized how bad it is down here within the last day or two. A desparate plea for help is often times heard louder than a mild mannered dude coming on and asking to open up your purse strings.
Besides, this isn't an online game, equipment and supplies don't just appear because you have the money. You can't dupe plat. You can't copy ones and zeros and come up with a new uber weapon of doom. This is real life and people have really died!
Oh...and the money spent in the war is another issue. Let's wait until the people are being taken care of properly before we mix these two together. I'm on your side when it's time to talk about this. But in the meantime, donate money, time, and equipment, and STFU!
Open your eyes!
Using wireless communications will enhance aiding those in need.
If someone was found stuck under a house, they could communicate with aid centers to send help.
Don't shout out and bash your keyboard mindlessly man.
Mod points are a dangerous tool. Abuse them wisely.
Watching this disaster unfold, I'm struck by the generosity of individual people who want to help and the complete ineptitude of the agencies that are supposed to be managing this crisis. I feel sort of frustrated because I would like to help but I live very far away and basically the only thing I can do is give to the Red Cross and just watch it all on TV.
We should all work together and develop open source collaboration software for disaster relief efforts.
Capabilties:
* Supercharged task list. I need supply $X at location $Y using vehicle $Z. People should be able to do the reverse, say I have supply $X at location $B but need vehicle $C. Must be able to work with very large numbers of people using it.
* Reporting connected to mapping. People should report on the ground what conditions are and report what is needed where
* VOIP phone bank. People around the world can volunteer as telephone operators for a central hotline. Obviously it's going to be harder to get web access in some situations so these people can take phone reports help them use the site through that, or just help them with whatever else they need
* Interlingual support. Language barriers are often a problem in disasters, especially those with international teams working together. This needs to be coordinated.
* Lost and found. People can post stats and descriptions and photos into a database that can be searched easily. People should also be able to do the reverse and register "I'm OK".
* Publicity effort: if this thing works then we need to publicize it so that people know to use it
* Scalability: this needs to scale to meet high variable demand. People should be able to donate servers and bandwidth. Should be load-tested to meet what seems like unrealistic loads.
I'm really struck by the way that individuals out there are helping one another. I saw one guy saying he was in Nevada, but he was willing to drive to Houston to come pick up someone who needed a place to stay... If we could come up with an application that helps individual people out there help with each other, we could have our own relief movement without needing the government. The big problem with the government agencies seems to be that they can't co-ordinate with one another (even though that was supposed to be the whole point of the Department of Homeland Security). There's really no limit to the people out there who would help if they only knew how, if there was a centralized "task list" maybe we could get the right help where it was needed faster.
Let's do it.
Families have been split up. People need to find each other.
Groups of people are stuck on roofs and under underpasses. The buses and helicopters need to know where to go.
Information needs to be collected and disseminated from a lot of places.
That's where the tech comes in. These are not trivial needs now.
They should have been set up in advance, but like a lot of other things that should have been set up in advance, apparently they weren't.
mt
While the victims don't, you seem to think that volunteers won't let victims use their laptop to contact their families? We need communications.
Communication is essential for work, education, and a lot of other tasks which in the future will be important. These people are going to need jobs, and I'm sure some of these people are programers or could be trained. People need to be given a way to communicate even if its just to contact their family, and people in the far future will need communications to survive.
Why not instead HIRE THE POOR. If you are a CEO and you run a business and you want to do something to help these people, HIRE THEM.
That is where you can start, if you are in the private sector. We need to gather CEO's who care, and discuss how to help on that level.
And you know that how?
Because they did not have the ability to do so. If Iraq had been able to strike the United States, they certainly would have done so in the 10 years between wars. As stated, Saddam was an incredibly secular leader. He only really cared about staying rich and surviving unharassed. He would not have jeopardized it to attack the US.
And he funded suicided bombers in Israel.
Yes, he paid the families of the suicide bombers who attacked in Israel. Everybody in the Middle East hates the Israelis, even westernized countries like Lebanon, and it's not a secret. He paid the families posthumously, though. It wasn't as if he was recruiting them. He wasn't a great guy by any means, but terrorist leader he wasn't.
Yeah, like that's how they would choose to attack the US. Has nothing to do with them funding and homing the terrorists.
See above. bin Laden did do that in Afghanistan, but he could just as easily be doing it now from Chechnya, Pakistan, or wherever the hell he is. The Taliban wasn't really involved in any manner other than getting paid to look the other way.
I said they were unable to attack the US through military means because that's precisely the threat that our government offered and so many people seemed to believe. Remember, though, everybody looks out for number one. The government leaders in Afghanistan and Iraq had no more desire to get ousted, impoverished, and possibly killed than any other leaders anywhere. National governments do not attack the United States as it stands right now. We didn't even catch the Al-Qaeda leaders from Afghanistan, they just moved. Why do you think we're any safer now?
Or maybe the YOU are learning their tactics? I mean, if they attack the US they aren't going to be attacking in a conventional way and therefore aren't going to be confronted by an ARMY force are they?
On the other hand, the military are understanding how the extremists work and at the same time are seeding liberty in countries which could certainly benefit from it. Look at Afghanistan for an example. They've made amazing progress in such a short amount of time and many countries (and the UN) are ensuring success. Admittedly Iraq is not as successful (yet).
Yes, WE are learning their tactics. They like to ambush us in the hills. Couldn't we have learned that from any insurgency or guerilla operations? Make a case study out of what happened to the Soviets in the 80s in Afghanistan. Same effect. All we're learning is that they're very hard to root out and they like to shoot at us. On the other hand, they are learning how we operate, what equipment we use, what tactics we use, when we use airpower, and what we have at our disposal.
Yes, we're seeding liberty all right. We are doing good things in Afghanistan, no doubt. Women have a lot more rights, and there is more infrastructure (though a lot of that is the Caspian Oil Pipeline). Unfortunately, the last estimates I heard from my friends in the military (who were deployed there) were that we maintained a functional control zone of 100m around Kabul. The rest is provisional warlords and druglords.
Try this site instead it has less propaganda
"The more corrupt a society, the more numerous are its laws." -Tacticus
#### The war didn't prevent any attacks on the US.
### And you know that how?
Maybe you have missed the fact that the US invaded the country, searched it for month and found absolutly no evidance of any plans to attack to US?
Did you see any terrorist attacks before we invaded them (9/11 and the attacks in '93 (which were planned stateside) aside)?
You didn't?
It's a logical fallacy to assume that because we invaded, that's what stopped the attacks. It's 8-10 years between attacks, and it almost certainly isn't over yet. Tell me that in 10 years, and I'll accede to you being right.
"The more corrupt a society, the more numerous are its laws." -Tacticus
I was a presenter at one of the Wispcons a few yeasr back and I've got four skill sets they can't do without - I just talked with Michael, then filled out the form.
I was in lower Manhattan for telecom type cleanup about four years ago but this is going to be a bit different - sounds like we'll saddle up and head out immediately. This means shots and maybe finding bodies during installs *gulp*.
What am I getting myself into?
I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid. -Theo
http://www.cnn.com/rssclick/2005/US/09/03/katrina. airmen/index.html?section=cnn_topstories
A Good start! Bravo!
The world's smartest bug zapper www.zapstats.com/kickstarter
i will hazard a guess that all those jamming systems in military radios (warlock?) are just being left on by default by GI-slows. It would be nice to think that this is a conspiracy as it would give the US government credit for being intelligent and organised - alas the reality is that they just didn't do their homework.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I saw one guy on TV the other day screaming "My car's under water! How the hell am I supposed to get out!?"
- If you HAVE(had) a car, why didn't you leave before?
A report from the last hurricane indicated about 600,000 out of a million left. The average family that did leave spent something like $1200 (or $1500 I don't remember and can't find the link) on travel, food, hotels and other losses.
That's funny. I don't see any attacks on the US since I created an invisible pink unicorn to protect us. I guess you can come up with a list of attacks that happened, and were not prevented by my invisible pink unicorn's magic?
you can't?
Then you clearly don't know what your talking about
Maybe you have missed the fact that the US invaded the country, searched it for month and found absolutly no evidance of any plans to attack to US?
I didn't mean preventing attacks from Saddam himself. Other attacks by extremists could possibility (I don't know for sure) have been avoided because they are now busy in Iraq and in the long term, middle-east stability and liberisation will lead to less tolerance for terror.
Because they did not have the ability to do so. If Iraq had been able to strike the United States, they certainly would have done so in the 10 years between wars. As stated, Saddam was an incredibly secular leader. He only really cared about staying rich and surviving unharassed. He would not have jeopardized it to attack the US.
You missed my point. The Iraq war wasn't needed to prevent a conventional attack on America by the Saddam's government but there are many ways that it could have prevented attacks on the US. Keeping the terrorists busy, showing the liberals middle-east that the US is serious about liberisation of the middle east. In the long term, stability in the middle east will mean less attacks. In the short term, the terrorists are busy in Iraq.
See above. bin Laden did do that in Afghanistan, but he could just as easily be doing it now from Chechnya, Pakistan, or wherever the hell he is. The Taliban wasn't really involved in any manner other than getting paid to look the other way.
You can't seriously believe that do you? The Taliban have a fundamentalist islamic vision and so does bin laden. I really don't see how you can think they were just "paid" to look the other way.
Yes, WE are learning their tactics. They like to ambush us in the hills. Couldn't we have learned that from any insurgency or guerilla operations? Make a case study out of what happened to the Soviets in the 80s in Afghanistan. Same effect. All we're learning is that they're very hard to root out and they like to shoot at us. On the other hand, they are learning how we operate, what equipment we use, what tactics we use, when we use airpower, and what we have at our disposal.
The soviet situation was different. Firstly, they didn't succeed in installing a government and getting 9 out of 10 eligible votes to vote and secondly they didn't have another superpower (america) helping the other side.
Yes, we're seeding liberty all right. We are doing good things in Afghanistan, no doubt. Women have a lot more rights, and there is more infrastructure (though a lot of that is the Caspian Oil Pipeline). Unfortunately, the last estimates I heard from my friends in the military (who were deployed there) were that we maintained a functional control zone of 100m around Kabul. The rest is provisional warlords and druglords.
I agree that it isn't ideal but good things take time. The situation under the taliban wasn't much better (warlords, drug lords etc). The taliban had "methods" for dealing with drugs which "liberal" governments wouldn't agree with.
Anyway, I just can't understand people who run around claming that afghanistan has been destroyed by the US and that they're worse off. I really can't.
Where did you hear they have law and order? I'm transcribing the NOPD radio net at the moment, and a couple of hours ago there was call out because a sniper was causing problems.
Last night bomb squad were called out.
The government announced this morning that they had restored law and order. Obviously this is wrong. I guess they are trying to put a good face on a bad situation. Maybe they need to get the National Guard and their equipment back from Iraq before they can help out.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
...and you will see that it is certainly the role of government to be leading the response to this crisis.
It is the reason why we the people allow the gov't to exist at all and impose itself on our freedom and liberty.
Gov't doesn't justify itself.
Peace, or Not?
Resources for Sharing Information and Offering Help
Katrina housing offers
Red Cross (a bit obvious, but just in case)
Next of Kin registry/a>
you know there is a lot of frustration in the US over the different between rich and poor and between the races. However at this moment I'd would ask people to put their philosophical ramblings aside and concentrate on relief.
Being someone who was in NYC when the World Trade Center came down, I know how much worse it felt when I could see my personal tragedy was being hijacked by various people and groups for political agendas.
There is no doubt this event should lead to some serious soul searching in America. Unfortunately it probably won't with the government we have. So I think in the end people who live through it will end up feeling a little like the way I felt. I know what I lived through and I know what I think it means and I know what I am going to teach my children.
It seems then the only useful thing is to ask oneself what can I do to help? If you don't have a good answer then please ask yourself, well what can I do to respect the people to whom this happened and not make it worse?
Peace, or Not?
Second, yes this does require the authorities on the ground to communicate their needs but if the authorities on the ground can't even communicate their needs then how the hell can the FCC say the needs are critical let alone (if you RTFA) "coordinate these efforts with private industry, with wireless technology groups, FEMA, and state governments in Mississippi, Louisiana, etc".
Indeed, you just describe exactly what the FCC is asking to do except replace words like "buy" with "donate.
Seastead this.
>If not receiving any aid can help bring GWB down, so be it.
You need to read up on the 22nd Amendment of the American Constitution. GWB has nothing to lose.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
The polititians are that 5% moran!! ;-)
Things are certainly calming down in the area at the moment, but saying that law and order has been restored seems premature at the moment.
As a side note: giving them the means to live is just as much evolution as leaving them to die. If helping people is part of our nature, then it's a factor in evolution, it makes it easier for that population to survive. Social Darwinism is nonsense.
I live in a box, eat nought but my socks, and gee, it rocks
You missed my point. The Iraq war wasn't needed to prevent a conventional attack on America by the Saddam's government but there are many ways that it could have prevented attacks on the US. Keeping the terrorists busy, showing the liberals middle-east that the US is serious about liberisation of the middle east. In the long term, stability in the middle east will mean less attacks. In the short term, the terrorists are busy in Iraq.
Yes, the terrorists are busy, for the short term . That's the worry. Previously, they were sent to Chechnya or another war zone to get experience. Very few of the insurgents in Iraq are actually Iraqi nationals. I fear what we're doing is training them to fight us in a few years, and training them to hate us. Countries over there (which are far from liberal, Lebanon aside) don't want us sticking our nose in from across the world.
If we were serious about the 'liberation' of the Middle East, we should have started a long time ago. Israel should not have been allowed to hold the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula decades after treaty. Saudi Arabia is one of the most autocratic, restrictive countries on Earth. They're our 2nd closest ally (after Israel) in the Middle East. Why didn't we stop Mbutu, or Pol Pot, or the genocide in the Sudan? We're showing we care about our interests. I can't honestly say why we're there (not for the oil, as they certainly would have expected almost total loss of the oil fields from the first war), but it's not for liberation.
You can't seriously believe that do you? The Taliban have a fundamentalist islamic vision and so does bin laden. I really don't see how you can think they were just "paid" to look the other way.
We actually have a fairly good picture of the organization. Similar hijackings were planned in the late 90s (stopped in the Phillipines before they happened). We have a good idea of the chain of command. The Taliban was not involved in planning. They were superfluous for funding, since bin Laden is independently wealthy, and the money trail doesn't lead to them anyway. Taliban troops may have assisted training camps, but they weren't involved in direct action.
The soviet situation was different. Firstly, they didn't succeed in installing a government and getting 9 out of 10 eligible votes to vote and secondly they didn't have another superpower (america) helping the other side.
Perhaps you need to review what happened with the Soviets. They did install a government, though there was no voting. They fought Mujahideen rebels, much as we are today. They didn't control much outside of Kabul, much as we are today. The big difference is that we DON'T have another superpower (the USSR was a superpower at the time, but I'll assume you made a typo and meant 'did' instead of 'didn't') supporting the other side (as we did, supporting the rebels against the Soviets).
I agree that it isn't ideal but good things take time. The situation under the taliban wasn't much better (warlords, drug lords etc). The taliban had "methods" for dealing with drugs which "liberal" governments wouldn't agree with.
Anyway, I just can't understand people who run around claming that afghanistan has been destroyed by the US and that they're worse off. I really can't.
I didn't say things are worse than they were, I said they don't have much infrastructure (we bombed out the railways and roads, which are still largely in ruins). Things are better than they were, but the US populace as a whole doesn't have much patience for nationbuilding, and I have a feeling we're going to end up pulling out before we stablize the region. At some point, and probably soon, we'll get sick of seeing casualty reports from rebels that just don't seem to go away and pull out. That'll leave them in the same place they were in before we got there.
"The more corrupt a society, the more numerous are its laws." -Tacticus
Check out the Katrina help wiki. There are sections for people willing to volunteer and others who are posting for aid, among other general resources.
about 5% of Americans own 50% of American wealth.
And pay about 90% of the taxes, but don't let that ruin your rant against the people bankrolling the schools, public services, roads and benefits for dole scroungers with 18 kids.
No-one was forced to live in a hurricane zone, in a place underwater, there was always a risk. Why should the rich all over America have their bank accounts raped to build even more giant levees for the sake of a single city living on reclaimed land?
If I decided to live on a leaky boat in a lake, and it sank, I couldn't blame tax payers for not building me a better boat. New Orleans should have been responsible for its own defences.
The rest of your post is just a mindless rant.
"I've considered myself a socially libertarian, fiscally conservative Republican for a very long time. I got along with the idea that I wasn't going to get a whole lot of help. College wouldn't be free. Job training would cost money and time. And I'm probably a decent example of up-from-not-much.
But after watching what's happening in New Orleans-an American city that I've loved, visited and have always wanted to return to - I can't ever vote for these people again.
Being a Republican means that you expect the government to do just a couple things for you and nothing else. Build a road. Defend us from enemies, foreign and domestic. Stuff that would be a lot less organized if we all had to do it ourselves. Everything else is just gravy.
And as we poured money into Department of Homeland Security, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency, I thought, "Right on," because some of that money's bound to fall on my head.
Well, something else would fall on my head first.
I work for the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. And that means that if something really catastrophic happens in MY city, and they ask me to stick around, that's the job. We have A and B teams and I'm a disaster recovery specialist on Team A. I've drawn up plans with names like Drawbridge and Smoldering Crater.
Here's what these people would do for me.
They would leave me there to die.
Look at the facts. There's no coordination on the ground right now. The city has no fresh water, no electricity, no services. The floodwater has so much oil and toxins in it that it's flammable.
In psychology they have what is called a fight-or-flight response. When faced with danger, do you subdue it or do you flee? Some of it has to do with risk assessment, but in this case, there is no flight. There is nowhere to run. So flight means die. If my choice was to pull a pistol on a truck driver or Nat, Jarren, Jayson, or any of you dies, that's no choice at all.
I'm not talking about the looters grabbing big-screen televisions and basketball hoops. I'm talking about the ones that are chest-deep in water carrying bottled water and diapers. You can't tell me for three days to be patient, the bus is coming, and they're piling up bodies in the street median.
We have known that this sort of disaster could occur for a century. Hell, the tour bus driver told me about it on the plantation tour. This means that we have been able to envision the stark reality of this occurring for a week-the newspapers all said the storm would hit New Orleans last Thursday.
A week to get buses? A week to get fishing boats? Trucks? This is the United States! I read someone who said, "All the people who weren't bedridden, or had money, or had cars left. The people that are left had none of those things."
There are people tonight who are going to sleep on overpasses for the fourth straight night. There are prisoners who will do the same. There are people dying at a convention center because no one will tell them that no one is coming for them, and the National Guard is protecting the kitchens. There are police officers who are turning in their badges because they've lost everything, have no guidance, and don't want to be shot by a looter.
There are people tonight inside a concrete domed stadium with holes in the roof and no air conditioning who were told the buses are coming today, and they might, or they might not. There is no food. There is no water. There are bodies floating through the
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Basically if people are serious about fixing the problems with New Orleans, as I said, their volunteerism should be directed at correcting the behavior of FEMA/FCC and the rest of the guvvie/buddy-buddy system with all due urgency -- that means NOW.
Seastead this.
I fear what we're doing is training them to fight us in a few years, and training them to hate us.
Countries over there (which are far from liberal, Lebanon aside) don't want us sticking our nose in from across the world.
The Iraqis are upset but clearly forward looking enough to understand the potential gains for their society. It is you, afterall, who admits that most of the i"insurgents" aren't actually Iraqis.
If we were serious about the 'liberation' of the Middle East, we should have started a long time ago.
US Government changes every 4-8 years. You know where I'm heading with this...
Israel should not have been allowed to hold the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula decades after treaty.
Which treaty are you talking about? Israel pulled out of the Sinai after their signed a treaty with Egypt. The Golan heights was being used to fire onto Israeli farms. Considering their neighbour's religous hatred of jews, I'd keep it too...
May I remind you that it was Jordan, Syria and Egypt who attacked Israel in 67?
Saudi Arabia is one of the most autocratic, restrictive countries on Earth. They're our 2nd closest ally (after Israel) in the Middle East.
mostly true
Why didn't we stop Mbutu, or Pol Pot, or the genocide in the Sudan?
Because the successful administrations pussy footed around after vietnam.
We're showing we care about our interests. I can't honestly say why we're there (not for the oil, as they certainly would have expected almost total loss of the oil fields from the first war), but it's not for liberation.
I don't believe libertation is *the only reason*. Countries *should* work in their own interests. It was never in the interests of the US to directly liberalise the middle-east *UNTIL* 9/11 when they(or bush or whatever) clicked onto the idea that it would be in the best interests of the US to make the middle-east more stable and less likely to breed terrorism and hatred of America. Those things take time tho (something half the US population can't accept).
Remember, for years the US has invited middle-eastern students to study at US universities (etc). The US also has policies of diversification of the population and government agencies like US AID are designed to help developing countries help themselves. The american way of thinking (individual responsibility, state indepedence etc etc) is different much of the non-western world but, IMHO, it works rather well.
It took Israel 3 years to pull out of the Sinai after the peace treaty was signed, and they had occupied it for 9 years.
You can lead a man to water, but you can't make him drink. I don't think that installing a democratic government in Iraq is going to change the situation there at all. If they get fed up, they'll demand a change, and better their society (Lebanon, happened in Iran during the last election). I don't think it will make the region more stable, nor less likely to breed terrorism. We invaded a country halfway around the globe for no discernable reason (to them), killed civilians (500 LB precision bombs dropped on hideouts across the street from schools/hospitals still damage them), and we were partly dictating the terms of their constitution.
Hatred of the US in the region won't disappear until we're more magnanimous. US helicopters are used to strafe crowds in Gaza, for instance. Until we give the countries in the region an equal footing (i.e. not just blanket support of Israel), it won't get better. If there's one thing that won't change there, it's their hatred of the Jews. If ANY other country had attacked a US ship in international waters, it would have been war. If any other country had threatened to bomb a nuclear reactor in a foreign country and assassinate it's leaders we would have been championing a Security Council resolution. If any other country had allowed its troops to ban the Red Cross and run over US citizens with main battle tanks, there would have been embargos. If any other country had perpetrated rocket attacks from Apaches in front of a mosque against a man in a wheelchair surrounded by children, if any other country were building a new Berlin wall, if any other country were...
See where I'm going with this?
I have no beef with Israel personally (besides the human rights violations), but it's clear favoritism to one country in the region from the world's only remaining superpower (until China and the EU come into their own). THIS is why they hate us. Relations in the Middle East were fine before all this crap.
That being said, I feel a bit as if the war is all a show. Everyone's focused on it while they gut the EPA, federal funding for public schools, the library system, and anything else they can. They have an agenda, and they have all the wrong people in all the wrong places (why is a former mining company executive the Undersecretary of the Interior for mining?). The tax rebates W gave out back in 2002? (whenever Gray Davis got ejected) could have balanced the budget of every state (every state had a defecit, and only Connecticut is not required by their constitution to balance it) and had money leftover. Instead every state froze wages, or cut healthcare for the poor, or funding for schools, as well as raising taxes. I realize the state and federal governments are seperate entities, but it should have been different.
My $.02.
"The more corrupt a society, the more numerous are its laws." -Tacticus
I got this from an email message and I'm still trying to calm down. Somebody is solititing donations while pretending to represent the American Red Cross. Note the fake website address
/Proccessing.html
l
http://www.redcross.org. cgiin.net
I'd love to see this guy's face on an FBI's most wanted list. I wonder if some hacker could help get this guy caught?
Original message below:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Subject: Individual donation-Hurricane Katrina
From: "AMERICAN RED CROSS" Add to Address
BookAdd to Address Book
Date: 03 Sep 2005 17:35:52
WASHINGTON, Friday, September 02, 2005 * The American Red Cross has
launched an immense emergency relief effort to meet unprecedented
humanitarian needs in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
The American Red Cross, with support of the worldwide Red Cross,
EarthLink, Comcast, Yahoo, SBC Group, Google, Microsoft, NBC, CNBC and
Red
Crescent Movement is launching a Web site and hotline to help raise
money by encouraging viewers to donate to the American Red Cross
Disaster
Relief Fund.
Follow the link bellow and You can and will help the victims of
Hurricane Katrina:
http://www.redcross.org.cgiin.net/Proccessing.htm
Financial contributions to the American Red Cross are tax-deductible.
Thank you for supporting the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund.
Sincerely,
Red Cross Team.
Please stick to real practical issues relating to ideas to help the victims. I am happy to troll and get involved in flame/political wars, but this isn't one of those times. I am sticking this a bit higher in the thread but I am really discusted with some of the off topic comments here today. Can you people please stop typing with one hand for one day?
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks about this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Where I live in Arizona, city officials and local hams, for years, have been working together to be prepared for emergencies. I remember how thoroughly they prepared together for Y2K. As Y2K approached local hams with plenty of batteries and other equipment were pre-positioned at hospitals, police stations, fire stations and other key locations. At some of those locations they still have their own antenna on the roof. The city itself had installed diesel backup generators at the city sewage treatment plant and at each of the wells for the city water system.
I have never really been active in ham radio although I do have a general class license. Many hams are already prepared to communicate with each other across thousands of miles or across town without the help of electricty from the power company. If their antennas get blown down they can quicky set up a simple wire antenna hanging from a tree. Many are already set up for long distance communication while operating from their car, truck or RV. They can communicate using voice, various digital modes or CW (Morse Code). Some hams even use slow-scan television or ham radio satellites. Perhaps they should just try to send more ham radio operators into the area.
Actually, the original question is not as dumb as it sounds. (And no, I'm not going to bring up anti-scientific bullshit like Idiotic Design.) One might as readily ask, is strength hereditary? The answer is, somewhat-but-mostly-not. The capacity for strength (and possible limits) are hereditary, but strength itself is developed through exercise. Within the ranges allowed by heredity, one can develop a magnificent physique or turn into a lard-butt. And, unlike muscle, the brain does most of its growth in the very early years; thus early stimulus is far more important to the development of intelligence.
Secondly, "intelligence" is not really a thing. It's a combination of a number of brain functions. We've reified it into a single thing, but it's not. Even something as simple as running speed is actually a combination of factors: leg length (hereditary), muscle tone (developed), lung capacity (some of both), etc. And what we call "intelligence" is far more complicated than that.
There is a sort of myth that genes map to traits, but nature is rarely that simple or straightforward. Most of what we would recognize as traits are tied to combinations of genes. And on top of that, what we might call "capacity-for-intelligence" is based on a large number of traits. And individual genes are far more widely spread through our gene pool than most people realize.
Clearly there are genetic components to intelligence, but at the same time, the simplistic, eugenic "solutions" this suggest are, frankly, idiotic. As is the thread-starter--evolution takes place on a timescale of millions of years, not hundreds or even thousands. The so-called "Darwin Awards", for example, are sadly misleading and sadly misnnamed. Killing a few thousand idiots may increase the average IQ of our species, but is highly unlikely to "improve the gene pool". (Even assuming that we were smart enough to quantify such "improvement", which is highly doubtful.)
After Canada refused to help in Iraq? That would cause the politicians more loss of face than they are willing.
Conveniently Iraq was a political hot potato on both sides of the Can/US border. With both countries pretty much in a 50/50 split on public opinion.
The Canadian government just happened to stumble around like idiots which really didn't help the US.
Unfortunately the US didn't focus public attention on how the "allies" were in Afghanistan, and it really is a lot to ask many of these countries to invade 2 countries at the same time.
Would have been a nice way to save face for everyone, and it was missed.
The ARRL is now seeking volunteers for deployment to the Gulf Coast area, to assist with Red Cross feeding and sheltering operations.
The Amateur Radio Emergency Services exist to provide communications support the operations of governmental, health, and welfare organizations, such as the Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc. We do not operate as an independent entity, so while your idea of sending a lot more hams sounds good, without the organizations that provide search and rescue, food and water, shelter, etc., we wouldn't be much help.
And that attitude is why we are moving very quickly to an environment in which the rich will be afraid to be in public lest they be killed and eaten.
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
I think the U.S. government is holding back on giving the go-ahead until it can be determined where the stuff needs to go. Right now, it appears (to me) that there isn't an absolute shortage of food, water, etc., but rather it's not where the people who need it are. And since Katrina affected only a relatively small part of a 1st world nation, it's probably faster to ship food, water, clothing, etc. from other parts of the country, instead of from overseas. And I don't know if you can airlift those big semi-trailers that convoyed to the Astrodome through 4 foot water.
There wouldn't be much point to send doctors and nurses, if there's no way to get them to the shelters. Ditto food and water.
Back in the 1990/91 Gulf War, there was a general (Horner?) who was in charge of getting all the "stuff" needed to wage a modern war to the Persian Gulf. Sounds like they need to find him, or his clone.
The is at least one large organized group of hams already set up for emergencies which is called the Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES). They work in cooperation and their webpage says that the "local ARES operation will usually take the form of nets--HF nets, VHF (repeater) nets, even RTTY, packet or other special-mode nets, depending on need and resources available."
Here are a couple of non-ham related thoughts I have had on emergency communications. I know a couple who travel around the country with a motorhome with "WiFi" hot spot sign on the front. I asked how they did that when he did not have a telephone line where he was staying. He said that he had an internet connection through his small satellite disk. The neighbors with laptops could use his WiFi hotspot. Many RVs are quite self-contained with their own generator, water tank, propane powered refrigerator, propane powered stove and heater and a holding tank for the toilet and so forth. They are desined to stay for several days where there is no electricity or water. I do not know if the roads going into those emergency areas would be accessable to an RV or not. I wonder if something like that with both a WiFi hot spot plus a ham with both shortwave and VHF communications might be useful (I'm just thinking).
Here in Arizona, the local hams and the search and rescue team fixed up an old 4WD army ambulance (or something like that) from the 50's as a search and rescue command and control vehicle. It has an antenna farm on the roof and laptop computers inside. I believe that the sheriffs office or someone gave them the old army ambulance. If I remember correctly, I heard that they put a new engine in the vehicle and repainted it several years ago. I hope I am describing it correctly, since I am not involved with them. I did peek through the door of the vehicle once
Just before Y2k, I had heard that either the city or county had installed an extra fuel tank so that the fire trucks and other emergency vehicles would not run out of fuel in the weeks after Y2K. I was surprised to hear about fire trucks running out of fuel in New Orleans. They must have not prepared for hurricanes as well as a certain town in the mountains of Arizona prepared for Y2K?
Then perhaps the poor should be taxed for being murderous cannibals? They don't have much money so they could be taxed in cigarettes and scratch cards.
The project that I'm working on now, CUWiN (Champaign-Urbana Community Wireless Network), would be useful in setting up the last-mile network down there.
Here is the home page:
http://cuwireless.net/
Here is the latest documentation (that I am working on, tell me how you like it):
http://pricepages.org/temp/doco_outline.html
Warning: It's not even beta quality yet...
We're doing what we can. We put together a projects with RVs, Satellite Broadband, laptops and other items which will head to Mississippi in a couple of days. We're going to Biloxi to help get information out of there. I must say that it's been a battle with Fema but I think we're all clear finally. Obviously we're still seeking donations, as this is a private effort, so if any of you go to the site and believe in the project enough we'd be grateful for financial contributions to pay for fuel. We've got about everything else we thought we'd need. Private aid vs government aid will surely be something we all talk about over the next month. We're just a small piece of such a complex event, but we'll do what we can/are allowed to do.
The company I work for is already helping, they've donated voice lines and bandwidth for the red cross and other agencies at the various shelters. Kind of impressive to see SBC deliver a bundle of T1's in about 12 hours for these sites. I still think they should be taking the legacy IT gear that we have here and setting it up for the people in the shelters so they can send email, keep in contact with family, etc.
i seem to remember from english class(i know, that's not saying much) that the cake referring to the dough that was left in the tray after making bread. the stuff that didn't come out. not a cake like a big chocolate cake type of thing we think of today when people say cake.
sent from my slashdot browser.
I mean seriously, unless you want them to leave the country (which I suspect most will), they will NEED communications. They need contact with the outside world. They need to be connected, posting blogs, etc.
I don't know how you can be crazy enough to figure that students or people who work don't want the ability to communicate.
As much as you tell people to go back to nature, it does not change the fact that we live in America. These people are homeless, what are we going to do? Not rebuild at all?
Ok, if we arent going to rebuild, lets give them free plane tickets leave this country so they can rebuild somewhere else. Otherwise we need communication. If you are afraid the government will control it, then use wifi. Pool your money and invent a solution.
ROFL
Might be a bit better if the greed of the rich didn't create murderous cannibals in the first place, but have it your way. I have the fava beans and the fine Chianti at the ready.
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
Okay, /., let's go fix this mess!
/.ers are starting to realize maybe they're not the best ones to be trying anything right about now, but before they can do anything else, another half are killed by roving bands of thugs (although the armed-to-the-teeth nerds happened to inflict enough damage to the thugs that things were relatively peaceful for the next day or so). Everyone else flees into the waiting arms of the police, only to be sent to the Superdome.
Everyone quit your job.
Pack up and get to LA as fast as possible (we'll get there Monday).
Divide into two camps: those that don't like firearms, those that are armed to the teeth.
Converge on NO: half get turned back, half of the others are shot by police as they rush past. Another half of those drop dead in the flooded streets due to sheer exhaustion (they were desk jockeys!) About this time, the remainder of the
Hm, tell you what: YOU go first.