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Supernova 1987A Decoded
bluevector writes "Electric Universe News is reporting that scientists claim to have proof that 'supernovae are catastrophic electrical discharges focused on a star' and not the result of giant stars undergoing gravitational collapse and subsequent explosion after having spent all of their nuclear fuel as previously thought."
So what about heavy elements? Where were they produced if they weren't produced in massive supernovas?
No, no, it's psuedoscience. Thier explanation of the behaviour of comets shape simply does not match reality. Nor does thier explanation of the solar wind (which they claim is positively charged if I recall, it is infact electrically neutral).
Thier predictions about Deep Impact were so vaguo they would make a astrology cringe, so to claim they got that right is absurd.
These people don't open themselves up to peer review. We aren't talking about a bunch of little Einstiens the world wont accept. These are genuine crackpots.
I see this as an inevitable consequence of the decline in scientific literacy among the nerd/geek population. Once, being a nerd was synonymous with having a good grounding in science, to the extent that one was capable of a rational, skeptical evaluation of new claims.
Instead, we've now reached the point where being a nerd simply means you know how to buy a watercooling rig on the interweb and bolt it on to your processor.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
No, my friend, your ad hominem came first when you accused me of trolling, with nothing to back up your claim. Read through the rest of the posts for this article, and it should become pretty apparent that the electric universe hypothesis (I won't dignify it with the label 'theory') is fringe science. The claims of these 'scientists' are barely coherent, indicating a total absence of familiarity with how science is prosecuted and presented, irrespective of the specifics of the claims themselves. The fact that they present their hypotheses as press releases, rather than in peer-reviewed journals, should set alarm bells ringing.
In your original post, you referred to 'those who dared say that the earth was round hundred of years ago'. In the interests of educating you about science, just a little, you may be interested to hear that the spherical circumference of the Earth was measured by Eratosthenes, well over 2,000 years ago. Unfortunately, people ignorant of history and science seem to believe that Columbus was the first to make the outrageous claim that the Earth was round. In fact, it was well accepted at that time that the Earth was round; the only uncertainty lay in the precise size.
Ultimately, the fact that pseudoscientific claims draw ridicule from mainstream science does not make these claims any more plausible. Sure, some outrageous hypotheses that are subject to ridicule are later found to be true. However, this happens only in very rare cases, and once the evidence is provided to back up the claims, the ridicule evaporates.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Mother Theresa is going to be sainted for her works.
This is the same Mother Theresa who refused to administer painkillers to those dying in her hospices, even though her organization had millions of dollars in unspent donations? The one who only cared about converting more people to Christ? I hope that bitch rots in hell.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Did you ever notice how science changes its anwsers so damn often. But the Bible stays the same.
2 1234547.htm
Actually, real scientists have used this event to prove a hypothesis. In 1999, Chandra X-Ray center suggested that the shape of the rings resulted from a cavity, caused by the explosion, in the dust and gas surrounding the star. They predicted that the supernova explosion would produce a shock wave which would hit the edges of the cavity and produce a dramatic increase in X-Rays. This is happening as predicted. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/08/0508
You see, that's the difference between science and superstition. Science makes predictions which can be tested. That's why it sometimes changes. Superstition is not testable. That's why it stays the same.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Peter Pan did not walk the earth. Jesus did.
Then it's obvious who was the more magical, isn't it?
This article is pure crap. I, as an High-energy astronomer, will never give credito to an article stating that "It is believed that a pulsar must be a super-collapsed stellar object that can spin up to thousands of times a second and emit a rotating beam of X-rays (like a lighthouse)." Pulsars that are the relic of supernovae (like the crab pulsar) are RADIO pulsars, meaning that they are mainly detected as pulsating sources at radio wavelengths. It is indeed true that most of them do emit X-rays (the crab pulsar is -again- a beautiful example), but a statement like the one in the article is completely misleading. I look forward a peer reviewed version of this article to come up on a serious journal. Until then, this is just crap (after all, we're on /., right?)
From TFA..."Stars are an electrical plasma discharge phenomenon. Electrical energy produces heavy elements near the surface of all stars. The energy is transferred over cosmic distances via Birkeland current transmission lines. The energy may be released gradually or stored in a stellar circuit and unleashed catastrophically. It is these cosmic circuits that are the energy source for the supernova explosion not the star."
Even if TFA was mildly belivable there is still the problem of where does all the electrical energy come from, where is the "power station" at the other end of the "Birkeland current transmission lines".
Skip to the end of the article and it starts dribbling on about the geometry of Stonehenge. The fact that it was posted seems to indicate that slashdot will soon have an astrology section.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Did you ever notice how science changes its anwsers so damn often. But the Bible stays the same.
That's funny. The Koran stays the same, the Hindu Vedas stay the same, and many other religious texts which have nothing to do with the Christian god stay the same too. Does the quality of being static mean something to you?
When I went to college, they taught some stuff in biology, chemsitry, and physics that is wrong. They graded our papers, and gave us low marks. Why? They did it to everyone. In my Chem class, and "A" was a 38.7%. That is about 4 out of 10 points on a test. The curve was fucking rediculous.
What, exactly, does this have to do with anything? Hundreds of years ago Christians believed the earth was flat and that women should be burned alive. And you're complaining that either you couldn't learn or that your professor couldn't teach?
God said they would persecute us. And they are doing that.
Who are "they"? And what are "they" doing exactly?
I would rather take comfort with God than with the here_today, gone_tomorrow of science.
That's fine. Kids take comfort in teddy bears and imaginary friends too. Would you prefer a static stock market if change is too difficult for you to understand?
Why not live in a happy moral time, with good families, and worthwhile occupations. Why live in horrible times, working for in the factory of an atheist for minimum wage?
False dilemma much? Why not live in a happy non-religious time, where everybody gets along? Why live in the constant fear and guilt that Christianity teaches?
THINK ABOUT IT. WHAT IS DIFFERENT TODAY? NO PENSIONS AT JOBS. NO GOOD JOBS. And there is less of God too. He is letting us know.
Ah yes... that *clearly* is the *only* thing different today. Yes, *nothing else* has changed in history. Any other pearls of wisdom to share, oh swine of knowledge?
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
I think you'll find that Jefferson, Franklin, Washington and the others who lead the revolution and formed the republic were all highly literate people.
"Did you ever notice how science changes its anwsers so damn often. But the Bible stays the same."
.. but its possible) but the amount of rewrites due to political slanting and posturing , making bits fit the ideas of the current church and plain old translation errors have made the thing a total mess.
... if it was the work of god then I'm fairly sure it could afford someone to handle continuation .. and why would a perfect being make a mistake and need to correct it with a new testament ..
That is a whole crock of nonsense if ever i have heard it.
Compare older versions of the Torah in Hebrew to the old testament.
Compare the old and new testaments , even compare different modern versions of the bible.
It has been shown that the Jewish faith as early as 800BC was perhaps not monotheistic .
The rules of the many Christian churches have changed so often it isn't funny.
In essence the bible has been rewritten so many times , that perhaps at one stage it may have contained the truth (I don't know , and i don't believe
The bible if anything is the work of man
Science may change , but so does your faith . the only difference is science changes based on understanding and advancement . The bible changes based on confusion and politics .
Take the core of your belief , the love , the helping others and faith in a higher power out to help us and use that . Don't use the confusing mess of a book that has caused countless deaths.
God and science , the twain shall never meet . you can enjoy science and a strong faith in a higher power. Science is not something to put faith in , it is something to take understanding from.
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
The article starts off making sense, but then degenerates into pseudoscientific nonsense and wishful thinking based on poorly resolved images.
Stars forming along lines of electric current? Please. What would form such currents? How could they be stable for tens of millions of years? How would matter collect there? Why wouldn't all the regular, well-established theories of fusion apply? How does this explain white dwarfs? Etc. etc. etc. etc..
This shouldn't have made it to Slashdot's front page or even the science section. (Although I suppose it could be considered a public service to Slashdot their site out of existence.)
Therefore, "gags" like this are actually more damaging.
No. It's not. It's actually a fairly prudent argument. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a good parallel as a lot of people's idea of religion. Making up stupid arguments against evolution is a lot like making up stupid arguments that the world is flat. There's really not much left to disprove, in a lot of these places. If people wanted prudent arguments they could just ask. But, as even the most prudent arguments have been ignored... Welcome our new Noodly Overlord.
Just because having God compared to a Flying Spaghetti Monster annoys people, doesn't mean that it's not effective. And certainly it's not damaging because it "strengthens resolve". I've listened to creationists speak. They would be hard pressed to get any more resolve. If religious parallels actually were not effective, we wouldn't know what you're talking about. Keep in mind that Bobby Henderson only became a Prophet of Flying Spaghetti Monsterism back in June. And, it's already bigger than most cults (perhaps some divine noodly force is nudging it). In short, it doesn't really matter how strong a person's resolve is, if they are wrong they are still wrong.
So, drawing fun parallels is a great way to get your point across. And I have to admit the FSP people are way funnier than the Invisible Pink Unicorn (mhhhnbs) people. And much more on the ball with Pascal's Wager. The IPU people gave nobody a reason to play the system. The FSM people have had it revealed to them that Heaven (for believers of Pastafarianism) contains a stripper factory and a beer volcano.
RAmen.
It is no longer uncommon to be uncommon.
Too bad EuroPeon slave traders were the middlemen in that transaction.
Spoken like a typical right-wing American: you don't want to accept responsibility for anything. Blame the Europeans, blame Islam, blame the Chinese, whatever, but you can do no wrong; how could you? You are a God-fearing citizen of The Greatest Nation on Earth. And it is The Greatest Nation on Earth because it can do no wrong. QED.
"I would rather take comfort with God than with the here_today, gone_tomorrow of science."
When I was a kid, hiding under the bed would make me feel safe as well. I never really saw the boogie man, because - you know - he doesn't exist. And neither does god. I take more comfort in "atheist science" than in lies - damn lies - that have kept humankind down, led the world to pain, war and destruction for the last 5000 years over and over again.
Look further, accept and embrace your human condition.
IANAL, but imagine a beowulf cluster of in Soviet Russia all your belong are base to us welcoming the new SCO overlords.
Did you ever notice how science changes its anwsers so damn often. But the Bible stays the same.
A self-correcting way to knowing? That's freakin' awesome! What else?
When I went to college, they taught some stuff in biology, chemsitry, and physics that is wrong. They graded our papers, and gave us low marks. Why? They did it to everyone. In my Chem class, and "A" was a 38.7%. That is about 4 out of 10 points on a test. The curve was fucking rediculous.
I know, right? I'm with you on this one. I would much rather see this kind of question:
Did God do it?
a.) Yes
b.) Praise the Lord
c.) You betcha'
God said they would persecute us. And they are doing that.
Who's persecuting you? Last time I checked (and believe me, I check OFTEN) you guys were pretty much in charge of everything. What? No prayer in schools to our Judeo-Christian deity? PERSECUTION!!!! You mean we can't burn witches anymore? PERSECUTION!!!! We can't send all atheists to China?! PERSECUTION!!! I can't express my religiosity? Oh, wait, I can! Shit.
Why not live in a happy moral time, with good families, and worthwhile occupations. Why live in horrible times, working for in the factory of an atheist for minimum wage?
I'm sorry, but, what the FCUK? Maybe someday there will be a time when most people are retarded and this kind of logic will seem valid to everyone. How do you guys come up with this stuff?
The bible stays the same? Fine, show me the original.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
- supernovae just happen to match what would happen to a star under gravitational collapse when it runs short of fusion to support itesf.
- we just happen to have the distribution of elements that would happen to a star under runaway fusion in spherical shells....
- supernovae just happen to put out scads of neutrinos, just what would happen under runaway fusion.
- supernovae just happen to push waves of matter in front of them, at the speeds and in the quantities expected under runaway fusion.
I'm an astronomy news bottom-feeder, and even I see the problems with an "electrical" theory of supernovae.Well, untill they get some propper science background (calculations, simulations and predictions to back up the explanations), they'll remain crackpots.
/. put this up; why are these people getting 'airtime' on (what used to be) a reputable techsite?
Which makes me wonder why
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
Actually, that is incorrect. The 13 colonies, and in particular the Northern ones, had very high litteracy rates. Massachusetts had universal schooling, even for girls.
Yet, they formed a country with great prosperity.
Again, incorrect. The U.S. was quite poor; it wasn't even considered a nation of importance until the time of Teddy Roosevelt, i.e. the 20th Century. Before then Americans were considered to basically just be country bumpkins by people in the powerful countries of the day (UK, France, Germany). It didn't become a superpower until after the second world war. And that was to a large extent because of the efforts of imported, secular, German and Eastern European scientists.
And they believed in GOD. They thanked him for what they had.
I infer that you think that we should "go back" to a society where religion dominates all political thinking and public life. I would suggest that you look at the Middle Ages, or even the Dark Ages for an example of what life in a theocracy is like... For 1500 years they believed in God to the point of letting the church dominate all life - and lived in total squalor.
Human genome = 3 billion base pairs = 6 GBit. Windows + Office = 20 Gbit. Which is more impressive?
200 years ago, most of the USA was filled with people who could not read or write. Yet, they formed a country with great prosperity. And they believed in GOD.
Good thing God gave them all those slaves, eh?
Slaves, slaves, everybody always bitches about the slaves. If a farmer paid the equivalent of a freeman's salary for a year to buy a slave at least he had to protect his investment. Same as grease, oil changes and other maintenance on the tractor.
What about the potato famine Irish? Get a factory job in the U.S. like a Chinese sweat shop working seven days a week at starvation wages until a flywheel belt takes off your arm and you bleed to death because there aren't any OSHA laws. No maintenance. You find another Irish the next day after you've gotten the blood mopped up. 100% on their own until a mean death in a short life and no cost to the factory owner.
Basically, the 19th century sucked no matter what your research watching Little House on the Prairie would lead you to believe.
Don't even get me started on the Indians. Give them a smallpox infested blanket and they'll give your whole clan free farms. They were pathetically easy shooting compared to, e.g. the Zulu, and "gave" us an incredibly rich continent to exploit.
God worked in mysterious ways to bring great prosperity to America.
Playing around is fine - you don't have be be serious all the time, of course not. But playing around and pretending you're serious is another matter.
What *do* we see when a star undergoes gravitational collapse and subsequent explosion after having spent all of its nuclear fuel?
Scientists don't like to play with theories that are obviously wrong, as this one is. Science is a search for how the universe really works, and bullshit purporting to be truth is deeply offensive to that goal.
"America is a christian nation founded upon christian principles. This is a hard fact"
You have a typo in there "fact" should be spelled "LIE". Another possibility would be "pathetic attempt to rewrite history by idiotic religious zealots who never bother to learn facts because with religious idiots, fervor is more important the accuracy" but I think "LIE" works best there.
Maybe as it rushes inwards, the increasing compression causes a burst of fusion. The extra energy causes the material's bounce to overcome gravity and spread out.
Just a guess.
HOWEVER, it is certainly reasonable to act on the assumption that this article is false as it is the more complicated theory and fails to explain a significant range of observations regarding supermassive stars. As such, it does seem to fail the litmus test.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Thank You for proving my point. You showed your ignorance by not understanding what your read and keeping to your dillusional points of view on what actually occurred in history. I gave you examples of his 'conservative' policies. Lincoln actually formed the Republican party to be a conservative party in response to what he felt was correuption within the federal government at the time. He did not start moving his policies to the more moderate side until after much bloodshed in the war and the death of his child. I will not rehash all of these items to defend my position, they are in the original argument. I was not being 'patronizing', I was merely pointing out fact. The point of my so called 'lecture' was to actually add some fact instead of ignorant inuendo into the conversation. The problem I see is that most people make the mistake of taking popularized inuendo as historical facts. If Lincoln had not made the shift to the middle towards the end of his first term, he never would have been the great leader he ended up as in history. Of course at the time, he had moved so far away from his "Republican" party, he almost lost the party's nomination fo the second term. I could spew some more facts for you, but they would only fall on deaf ears. Because like most people of today, you would rather believe your inuendos and fantasies about this point in time because it does not jive with today's moral doctrines. Did you know his successor was a Senator from Tennessee? Can you even name the Presidents before and after him? Keep living in your fantasy 'blame America' first world if it assauges your guilt.
Peace:)
Slashdot really needs some more scientifically literate editors. You guys keep jumping on crank bandwagons and making yourselves look foolish.
there is a degree of uncertainty in everything.
There is a degree of uncertainty in the statement "The Sun will come up tomorrow"... uncertainty introduced semantically and uncertainty introduced because of astrophysics.
But it's a good bet. The theory of evolution will be futher refined, but that something of an evolutionary mechanism is in play is very well demonstrated.
Demonstration is possible. Proof is not.
But... we don't need proof. We don't need proof the sun will come up tomorrow to place our bets on it.
-pyrrho