Slashdot Mirror


Post-Katrina Images on Google Maps

breadiu writes " Satellite imagery of New Orleans taken on Wednesday, August 31st is now available on Google Maps. Enter 'New Orleans' in the search field at the top of the page, or drag and zoom the map to the area. A red 'Katrina' button will appear at the top right of the map, next to the existing map buttons. Older images for the area are still available too - click the "Satellite" button to switch to those."

49 of 448 comments (clear)

  1. However, by whatthef*ck · · Score: 5, Informative

    Unfortunately, post-Katrina images for only about half the city are available.

    1. Re:However, by daviqh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Maybe the next half will be up tomorrow...and did you see the (I think) superdome. They weren't kidding when they said the roof was ripping off!

      --
      Microsoft is like...no, it's much worse.
    2. Re:However, by wdr1 · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's a beta.

      -Bill

      --
      SlashSig Karma: Excellent (mostly affected by moderatio
    3. Re:However, by peeon · · Score: 3, Informative
  2. Cemeteries by morcheeba · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A lot of my memories of visiting New Orleans included visiting the great cemeteries there. St Roch and St Vincent De Paul both look flooded. Obviously the living people in the city are more important, but the great landmarks still have a lot of meaning.

    1. Re:Cemeteries by dillon_rinker · · Score: 4, Informative

      One of my memories of the Great Flood of '93 is that cemeteries situated in the flood plain were inundated for weeks. Airtight coffins, lighter than the mud around them, floated to the surface and were washed away. Entire cemeteries were lost.

  3. Odd story about Katrina victims. by Eric(b0mb)Dennis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I work at a retail store in California, about 40 miles from Sacramento.

    The other night, I had a couple come in, claiming to be from New Orleans, showing me an ID as evidence. They looked pretty poor and in dirty clothes, and the ID was correct.

    They kept barraging me with questions asking for handouts... wanted a $100 tent for free, et cetera et cetera. I gave them the number to the local red cross chapter.

    Has anyone else experienced refugees from the gulf coast in their area? What in the WORLD were they doing here.. no idea heh.

    --
    Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
    1. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I live in a pretty small college town in California (about 10 miles for Sacramento), and the University just accepted 300 transfers from University of Tulane...people are starting to spread out through the country.

    2. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by w98 · · Score: 3, Informative

      My church is helping The Dream Center here in Los Angeles to house about 300 people relocated from New Orleans, give them job training (some of them will have jobs ready when they arrive).

    3. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by Tekgno · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or used an old ID in order to capitalise on the sympathies of others.

    4. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by fred+fleenblat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just speculating...the ID may have been correct, but maybe they moved to california a year ago.

      It's disheartening to entertain a pessimistic possibility like that but I'm pretty sure that kind of thing happens on a regular basis. I think you did the right thing by referring them to Red Cross. They are in a position to evaluate this couple's predicament more carefully and have much greater resources for truly assisting their legitimate hardship.

    5. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by QuaZar666 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I myself am in Austin, and while we did get some of the people from New Orleans, we haven't gotten as much as Houston, or San Antonio has gotten. I am still waiting though for some of the homeless people here to carry signs saying that they lost everything due to the hurricane. Like I said hasn't happened yet, but I'm sure some of them will do.

    6. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by jd · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Portland, Oregon is apparently going to absorb 15,000 refugees in the near future. I've no idea what impact trying to cope with that sort of scale of influx is going to have.


      Hey, I agree they need housing, support, etc, and I've no opposition to everyone doing what they can. But it sounds to me that the current plan of action is based more on looking good than doing good. Large population migrations of this kind impact everything from culture through to the economy. You can't just throw tens of thousands of people around the country and hope for the best.


      (Well, you can. Germany did, when it unified. Damn near destroyed West Germany, with zero benefit to East Germans. Virtually all the problems in the Middle East are due to mass population migrations. In fact, virtually all long-term problems in history have been because of mass population migrations.)


      The day it became obvious that Katrina was going to hit Category 5, work should have started on getting ready for an inevitable refugee crisis. They didn't, ok, so they should be working on long-term impact assessments NOW, and working on making sure that further harm isn't done.


      Of course, they aren't. Right about now, they've bugger all idea of what the long-term consequences are. What about health consequences? I doubt the refugees have been checked in case of contageous diseases. I am pretty certain that people who left under their own steam, after it became obvious that rescue wasn't on the way, haven't been checked. The risk probably isn't great, but it's certainly not zero.


      There are other risks. More than a few of these people will be armed, all of them will be suffering from PTSD, none of them are likely to have the money needed to get adequate support. That's a very high-risk combination, particularly as grudges may well be carried for the lack of support and the perception of abandonment. To make things worse, there WILL be resentment towards the refugees by other Americans, especially in areas where the "ideal" of absolute self-support is a religion. Violence seems certain.


      After the draining, there'll be further stresses as refugees try to return home - or are pushed into doing so. Even after draining is complete, the entire region should be decontaminated and then checked for subsidance, prior to anyone trying to live there again. The reality is, that isn't going to happen. In turn, that means that there is a risk of death by disease or structural failure.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    7. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by sessamoid · · Score: 4, Insightful
      They had a very new van (rental looking) full of stuff, I mean full. A dog, cat, looked like everything they had...

      Dude, it's California. Do you know how many "van people" I have parked outside my house that match that exact description with out of state plates? Lots of people seem to live out of their vehicles in California, b/c the weather's so good.

      They had the cash to pay for the gas to get all the way to California in a van, and they want a free $100 tent? I don't buy the story, but then again I'm pretty cynical and jaded.

      --
      "No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
    8. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by Mard · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I work at a Kmart in Niceville, Florida (just north of Destin, 40 minutes east of Pensacola) in the panhandle. The number of refugees in our city is astounding, and I've heard of several families coming to Kmart and asking either the service desk or checkout employees for handouts. I've spoken with people from both Biloxi and New Orleans, and it's upsetting that there is very little I can do for those who will be returning home; our area is out of gas, out of gas cans, out of air conditioners, out of battery powered fans,... you get the idea.

      This city was hardest hit, since I've moved here, by Ivan last summer. Everybody lost power, some people in city limits had no power for up to two weeks. I personally had no power for five days, and the heat and humidity get to working on you while the storm is still blowing outside...and it only gets worse from there. Although I truley fill for those who lost their homes or worse from Katrina, I also can't imagine the suffering of the hundreds of thousands who are still without power in this insane southern-sun heat. It's a difficult situation for everybody, and I hope that the supplies my area recieved post-Ivan haven't been forgotten for those who may not have been so bad off, but still need help this time around (ICE!).

      At first I was planning on volunteering, but I'm just a scrawny geek, not to mention young (20). Perhaps I'll go over in about a month to relieve those who are there now, perhaps I'll just donate part of each paycheck to the Red Cross; I still haven't decided (though I have donated). Something tells me that I have plenty of time...Pensacola and other areas in the panhandle of Florida are still recovering from Ivan nearly a year later. I expect we'll be cleaning up from Katrina for much, much longer.

      Our area may have been spared Katrina's wrath, but some of us will have scars none the less. For people on the gulf coast and all across the southeast, this is just the start of things to come; now comes the problem of how to deal with the sudden homeless crisis.

      --
      DRM = Digitally Restricted Media. This is a viral sig, pass it on.
    9. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by The+Evil+Couch · · Score: 4, Informative

      really? I could have sworn that refugee was derived from refuge. refugee meaning someone that's seeking or taking refuge.

    10. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by damiam · · Score: 3, Informative

      It sure sounds to me like they're fleeing in search of refuge. The "as in" clause is providing examples, not limiting the definition to those factors only.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    11. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by Low+Key · · Score: 5, Informative
      I just wish people would stop misusing the word refugee. These people are evacuees, not refugees. Take a look here.

      Under international law, refugees are individuals who:
      • are outside their country of nationality or habitual residence;
      • have a well-founded fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion; and
      • are unable or unwilling to avail themselves of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution.
      It bothers me a lot that people are casting a shadow over the true meaning of such a powerful word. While unfortunate, the people who left LA, MS, and AL are not refugees.
    12. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by swillden · · Score: 4, Informative

      Portland, Oregon is apparently going to absorb 15,000 refugees in the near future. I've no idea what impact trying to cope with that sort of scale of influx is going to have.

      They should send some of them to Utah. We're supposed to get around 2000 and so far we've gotten almost half of them. The state set up a 1-800 number people could call with offers of donations of money, food, clothing and housing. The hotline was running for just over 24 hours but has been shut down because they've been buried in offers. They've had to turn away nearly half of the volunteers who showed up at Camp Williams (Utah Army National Guard base where the evacuees are being house temporarily) because the volunteers outnumbered the evacuees and they had nothing for them to do.

      Not only that, several hundred jobs have been offered, and over 1000 families have offered to provide 6-12 month "intermediate" housing, all in less than 24 hours since the request was announced. Utah only has 2.5 million people, but I think we can absorb far more than the 2000 that the US government has planned to send us.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    13. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by jd · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I firmly believe that welfare programs should provide support when other systems fail. Here, we have the worst possible failure - a complete and total collapse of ALL infrastructure for a gigantic area.


      No, I do not believe controlled migration is a good idea. What I do believe is a good idea is supported migration. If an area is going to suddenly face meeting the needs of N extra people, then it should be able to acquire the resources needed to support N extra people. Once integration is complete, everything should balance itself out. Until it does, however, you can't expect the newcomers to survive on hot air and vaporware.


      My concern is that we're going to get a lot of mass migrations with absolutely zero backup. No support, no supplies, no resources of any kind. If that is indeed the case, it will be a disaster for those who have been displaced and a catastrophe for everyone else.


      It is time the Federal Government woke up and smelled the coffee. There are no "Get Out Of Crisis Free" cards in real life. This is going to cost, and it is going to cost a lot. It is going to require considerably more planning than has been done, to get things to function smoothly, and is going to be a logistical nightmare without some damn good experts developing a way to do this effectively.


      With the airlines on the edge of bankrupcy, Greyhound slashing services to and beyond the bone, Amtrak contemplating suicide and most of the military in Iraq, HOW are the people going to be moved around the country in anything like a meaningful timeframe?


      The answer would seem obvious enough - all of these have the means to move the population, they just don't have the money. It would be trivial for the Government to pay Greyhound to move every single unused bus to an evacuation point and carry the people around the country. They could pay Amtrak to do it. The airlines aren't short of capacity, they're short of cash.


      Is this happening? So far, I've not heard of a single extra dime going towards paying for the mass exodus.


      What happens when they get to where they're going? Who is going to pay for their shelter? For the uninsured or the elderly, where is the extra money for medicare going to come from? And for those insured by companies based in a flooded-out area, nobody is going to take an insurance card from a company that might never reopen so what are they going to do?


      My gripe is that there is a great deal you need to do to get this kind of operation to work well, rather than to end in a disaster for all concerned, and that the Federal Government isn't doing any of it. If they're going to get bugger all support, they would probably be better off building a refugee camp and relying on aid from the Red Cross and other organizations that will, at least, come through for them.


      As of the political situation right now, the choice is between being camped in dismal conditions but at least getting basic needs met, or being ferried to God-Knows-Where (assuming the Federal Government even bothered telling God), finding the social services simply don't have any extra cash, and ending up homeless on the street.


      My personal preference would be for the Federal Government to fund social programs adequately (for a change) and for the evacuees to have living conditions worth the living.


      My biggest concern is that right-wingers generally don't believe in social programs at all and may well prefer people homeless on the streets to being visible in a camp.


      My next-biggest concern is that the right-wing may attempt to use the disaster to prove that social programs aren't needed. (If you don't need extra money for an extra ten or hundred thousand, then maybe you don't need any money at all.) With this Government in particular, but America in general, fearing the worst in politicians seems to be a generally good idea.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    14. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by Angostura · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, but the definition of something under international law is not the same as the definition of a word.

      At it's simplest a refugee is simply someone who has fled their home and is seeking refuge. There is - or should be - no stigma in being called a refugee.

    15. Re:Odd story about Katrina victims. by Zibblsnrt · · Score: 4, Insightful
      A lot of the objections to using the word "refugee" to describe the Katrina refugees seem to boil down to the idea that Americans can't be refugees, since refugees are those other people. It's pride, not grammar, which is at stake.

      While I've seen some people with legitimate objections (even though I don't really buy the validity of a highly politically-motivated redefinition of a word which has been in use for a long time indeed), most of the complaints I've heard about the word really do boil down to that. It's not objection to the word; it's denial that it's being applied to us, something which feels like an insult when it really isn't anything more than a simple statement of fact.

      -PS

      --
      "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
  4. Wow that's creepy by TWX · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is one of the creepiest things that I've seen in a long time. It reminds me of the before and after pictures from New York and similar stuff from coastline around the Indian Ocean.

    Maybe such high resolution pictures of the disaster region will spur people into getting the authorities to do things like pay for the renovation of land features to reduce the effects of natural disasters, rather than divert the money to other projects, leaving victims high and dry (or in this case, low and wet).

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Wow that's creepy by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Here we have revealed the bare Bush blame-game talking points. In pure essence. First, try to say the New Orleans damage wasn't bad. Then, blame the "human-caused damage" on the humans, the New Orleanians. Then, when a rational person is outraged by your gibberish, spin it into some kind of impossibly parsed meaning, and swerve into blaming the Democrats, governor of LA and mayor of New Orleans.

      Next you'll spout that "no one anticipated that the levees would break".

      You certainly won't be quoting the fact that LA Governor Blanco asked Bush for, and was told she was getting, military assistance, days before the event. Or that she was offered NM National Guard (from Democrat Governor Richardson) before the event, but the required Bush admin approval didn't arrive until 4 days after the disaster. Or the huge relief ship that's been bobbing offshore since the disaster, waiting on the Bush admin go-ahead.

      Or that the mayor isn't responsible for the levees or most other crisis management: Bush and his hirelings are. Or that Bush can send in the military legally, even if the governor or mayor didn't. Or that he could have sent them in anyway, even if it were illegal, to save everyone, and no one would have said anything. Or even if anyone did say anything, he'd get off. Or even if he didn't get off, that's what leaders do: they sacrifice to save their people.

      You didn't mention that Bush heard about the devastation, and went to California to make a political speech instead. Or that he went golfing on Friday, as Gulf Coasters continued to die.

      Nah, why would you tell the truth? You're a ghoul, to whom thousands of Americans dying are just a chance to lie about politics. You are a subhuman pig. When the floods rise in Sioux Falls, you better hope that your government comes to the rescue. Or maybe you're just depending on your rifle to keep you dry. You probably worship Bush because you hate the government, ignoring how they subsidize your paycheck at the nursing home, and are happy about the way he's proving the rightwing theory that "government can't do anything right". You are a dangerous fool.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    2. Re:Wow that's creepy by orthogonal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...I was making reference to.... the incompetence of the Mayor of NO and the governor of LA.


      Here's the simple take-home point:

      Do you think your city, your family and loved ones, will be safe when it is your city that needs to be evacuated?

      With Katrina we had several days' notice of a disaster -- and you use that to blame Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco.

      But the next terrorist attack will give no warning. The attacked city will be relying entirely on FEMA -- there'll be no Nagin, no Blanco for apologists to blame.

      Some four years after September 11th, both FEMA and the Department of Homeland Security have demonstrated that they can't protect Americans -- indeed, their leaders in abject and total failure can only blithely deny news footage we're seeing with our own eyes.


      The fundamental purpose of any government -- as any conservative will tell you -- is the protection of its citizens.

      In the last four years, our "leaders" have ignored crucial evidence preceding the September 11th attacks, have failed to get those responsible, have been willingly fooled by colossally bad intelligence about WMDs in Iraq, have fired those who correctly predicted we'd need far more troops to avoid a quagmire in Iraq, and have now let thousands of your fellow Americans die from their incompetence and lack of preparedness.

      Our so-called "leaders" have repeatedly failed to uphold their end of the social contract. One "understandable" mistake after another -- and no one's been fired except whistle-blowers and those who were in retrospect proven right in their predictions.


      How many more mistakes rewarded by Presidential Medals of Freedom will you tolerate? How many more Americans must die from sheer incompetent failure at the highest level of government before you find your anger?

      How much longer will you trust your life, your children's lives, and your country's future, to the "protection" of these miserable failures?

      How much longer?

  5. Particularly... interesting by mcc · · Score: 5, Interesting
    1. Re:Particularly... interesting by irn_bru · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's a shame that Google AdWords(TM) can't respond to a crisis as fast as George W. I really don't fancy a stay in the Holiday Inn Downtown at the moment, thank you very much...

    2. Re:Particularly... interesting by Coneasfast · · Score: 3, Informative

      btw, to get rid of those location pointers (A, B, C, D, etc):
      just clear the search field and press enter.

      too bad google doesn't make this clear, would be nice to have a button to do that.

      --
      Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
  6. Six Flags Under Water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They're gonna kill me for the bandwidth this uses, but I managed to find a picture of Six Flags (a series of large theme parks for you non-USians, second only to Disney's stuff) after it was hit. It looks pretty disturbing to see rides halfway submerged.

    Six Flags:
    http://www.ecsis.net/~gregday/park.jpg

    Park Map:
    http://www.ecsis.net/~gregday/map.pdf

    The rest of the NOAA aerial images taken from a Cessna:
    http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/KATRINA0000.HTM

    But I warn you, it's very creepy.

  7. Much better pictures by Kredal · · Score: 5, Interesting

    can be found at NOAA's site, at http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/KATRINA0000.HTM

    The pics were just taken off the plane and thrown on a server. North isn't always up, and the pictures aren't very well labeled. You pretty much have to know what you're looking for before you can make sense of the pictures. But they are much better quality than that of maps.google.com.

    --
    Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
  8. Re:google earth by dschl · · Score: 4, Informative
    It's been available on Google Earth since at least Sunday or Monday, from the Keyhole BBS. You had to download a file which gave you a layer showing a red dot at the centre of each satellite image, and when you clicked on the dot, it would then download each image separately for an approx 1 mile by 1 mile area. Google Earth also allowed you to see all of the images for other areas, including places like Gulfport and Biloxi. Complete devastation, nothing left but matchsticks.

    Also, Katrina images have been available on Google Maps since at least Saturday, as I was browsing it Sat afternoon. Kudos to Google - with that kind of speed, they should be running FEMA, too.

    --
    Slashdot - the place where you can look like a genius by restating the obvious
  9. Helpful views by Durango_44 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The company I work for has two franchised, retail stores in the New Orleans area--one on the riverfront downtown, and another in the Metairie area, north of the main town. These satellite images have provided us with the first comfirmation of the damage, and are remarkably useful (in our case, the stores appear to be dry 48 hours after Katrina's passage). The executives were delighted to see this, and earned the IT group some nice brownie points... There is a similar link on the Denver Post site today. The images are from the same company, and for the same date and time, but are markedly different in color from the Google images. Does anybody know why?

  10. Two interesting things by inio · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1. The new imagery goes in one zoom stop furter than the regular imagery. A sign of things to come?
    2. The new imagery doesn't have any obvious copyright notices. Did they skip this step or is there a new invisible watermark?

    1. Re:Two interesting things by Tyger · · Score: 3, Informative

      1. I was reading a google maps API forum thread where someone suggested allowing better zoom so people could better identify houses there, the answer was that they would get to it, and apparently they have.
      2. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say most the images they had to pay for, so they own rights to and responsibility to protect. However, the flood images were probably pieced together from freely downloadable NOAA images, so they have no such rights or responsability.

  11. How about finally acknowledging by Shivetya · · Score: 4, Interesting

    that there are some places people should not live? Instead of throwing billions at a problem that will occur again it might be best to treat the city as we treated people along the Miss.

    Move them.

    While the mess in New Orleans is bad too many people are ignoring the devastation caused in Miss. and the surrounding areas.

    The port area themselves are not affected as the city proper was. We can try to improve the wetlands. We can even hopefully undo the system underwhich the sediment of the Miss is forced into the sea instead of being used to rebuild the area naturally.

    The real fact is, New Orleans has always been on borrowed time. I would prefer very much to spend the money to insure that the victims forever are high and dry.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:How about finally acknowledging by Trepalium · · Score: 3, Informative
      Besides the fact your post is quite cold-hearted, New Orleans is hardly alone. Perhaps you know of a little city called Grand Forks that was severely damaged by the Red River flood of 1997. Or perhaps the cities sitting along the Mississippi river that got flooded by the flood of 1993 should've been left to rot? How about the earthquakes that always seem to rip LA apart?

      Frankly, there aren't many places that are immune to natural disasters. I may not have to worry about hurricans, earthquakes or tsunamis where I live (Winnipeg, Manitoba), but I do have to worry about the occasional tornado, ice storms, flooding of the Red River, and blizzards. Life on this planet just isn't safe.

      --
      I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
  12. Engineering, Environmental Approach by toxic666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For those interested in reading on geological hazards, check out Engineering Geology, An Environmental Approach:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0130 52770X/qid=1126049667/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl 14/002-0778082-8548014?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

    Not intended as flamebait (I contributed $100 to the Red Cross), but people just refuse to learn to move away from flood-prone areas, even after they are destroyed.

    The author survived the 1972 Rapid City flood in which 237 people were killed and adopted the philosophy of never rebuilding homes in the flood plain. Rapid City learned its lesson, and only commercial and industrial buildings are allowed in the flood plain. There are also a lot of parks and public use areas on the flood plain.

    Yet, the monetary amount of damage done by floods increases with time as people continue to develop flood plains and barrier islands. Folks, flood control structures fail too often to justify their cost to the country's taxpayers. It is a shame thousands died in New Orleans and we will again fail to learn our lesson.

  13. Convienently ignoring one major fact by Shivetya · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Federal Disaster Area declaration is nearly as large as the United Kingdom. How would you go about getting everything to everyone in a few days?

    Also in the US disaster preparedness and recovery are normally the venue of the States and localities. By tradition they are supposed to ask for aid. Supposedly, I cannot find the story right now, the LA Govenor asked Bush for some time before calling out the Guard. It is the State that "by tradition" orders the Guard, Bush respected that but sometimes I think traditions stink. There are 330,000 Guard members in the US currently. I would think more than a small percent could be moved provided the States will act.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Convienently ignoring one major fact by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given that there was a few days notice of Katrina, there seems to be no excuse for the way in which it has been dealt with by the richest nation on the planet.

      So, let's see. If this were something that happened to a less wealthy nation, what would have happened? In matter of some weeks, there would be some pale shadow of the amount of support that was moving into the Gulf Coast area within hours. There has been significant destruction over 90,000 square miles, with people cut off from utilities and communication throughout that area.

      The National Guard has been been running non-stop relief flights and convoys into that entire area - and this is important, because those remote rural areas are the least able to connect to support. The people living in urban areas are easier to support, given their density, once you've got transportation lined up. That it only took from Tuesday until early Thursday for that to work, despite the huge problems, is actually pretty amazing. That doesn't sound so nice to the people that didn't get out of town, but it's worth mentioning that the town's mayor - who knows exactly where emergency support starts (locally) - explicitly told his local citizens that if they were to gather in the central stadium area, they were to bring their own food and water because there would be none immediately available.

      the richest nation on the planet

      Being the richest nation on the planet doesn't allow us to change the laws of physics (in terms of moving supplies, equipment, and people). But it's also worth talking about one of the key foundational aspects of US culture - and part of what allows the US economy to maintain its level of productivity and high employment. Specifically, the country has a long tradition of self sufficiency and localized culture. This extends all the way through how emergency services are planned (or not).

      Had it been an unforseen terrorist attack, Dubwa would be blaming it all on terrorists

      And, who would you blame for a terrorist attack, other than the terrorists that commit the attack? If you're in the "victims deserve the attacks they get" camp, then there's really no point continuing a discussion. Otherwise, that sort of leaves the attackers culpable. But since you're trying to draw some sort of connection between the aftermath of a colossal storm that impacted an area the size of many entire other countries, and think that somehow the president is in a position to stop it, or to tell the governer of Louisiana when and how to ask for help... well, you're missing the point. Come to think of it, why did the governor of Louisiana wait until Wednesday to authorize her state's guards to use private sector transportation to actually provide relief for her people? She'll have to answer to the local people that elected her. But I guarantee that if the federal government, in non-crisis circumstances, told the state governors that they were going to permanently muscle in and run the local preparation for things like storms, then there would be a huge mess, politically at the very least.

      this just goes to show that the USA is too arrogant to defend itself against anything

      Not quite sure how that follows - but I don't think, being a Brit, you're quite understanding the nature of a federal republic, or the strong powers (and responsibilities) that are given to the 50 states that make up the union. That has its strengths and weaknesses - and a state, like Louisiana, that is notorious for its local government corruption and weakness, is (quite literally, now, alas) stewing in its own juices. There are mechanisms in place for the federal government to displace the local governor's authority, but the constitution actually calls for findings of "insurrection" at the local level before we bypass the important responsibilities and powers that are reserved by the states.

      You may or may not have noticed the substantial response that New York's

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  14. Re:It's had this for days by commodoresloat · · Score: 4, Funny

    Cool; I got here when I googled slashdot.

  15. Here are two levee breaches by Krellan · · Score: 4, Interesting
    1. Re:Here are two levee breaches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      You beat me to it. For the sake of completeness, here's the third major levee breach.

      Wow, the houses are deeply submerged here -- right to the edges of the roof.

  16. Feature request... by Auraiken · · Score: 3, Funny

    Gah... can't... move.. damn clouds out of the way.

  17. Re:3901 Metropolitan Street, New Orleans, LA by danheretic · · Score: 5, Informative

    Snopes to the rescue again!

    In particular:

    Whether this photograph truly represents a lost opportunity to have evacuated a substantial number of New Orleans residents ahead of Hurricane Katrina is difficult to assess. Such a claim presumes an availability of resources (e.g., experienced drivers, fuel) and workable logistics (e.g., sufficient means of notifying and getting residents to departure points, sufficiently clear roads for multiple trips out of town and back) that may or may not have been present. (There's no guarantee that all the buses shown in this picture were even in working condition.) And, given the particular geography of New Orleans, any such evacuation would have had to have begun well in advance of Hurricane Katrina to avoid exposing residents to the potential danger of being stuck in buses on traffic-clogged roads in the path of an approaching hurricane. Moreover, any type of evacuation effort would have incurred a substantial outlay of funds from local and/or state governments -- while everyone agrees with the advantage of hindsight that would have been money well spent, many taxpayers might not have been left feeling so enthusiastic about footing the bill for an unnecessary evacuation had Hurricane Katrina not proved so damaging.
  18. Google Maps is great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I can see my house! Oh, bugger...

  19. Scathing Editorial from Keith Olbermann on MSNBC by squidsoup · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This is simply stunning - the most succinct and eloquant summation of the situation this far.

    http://media.putfile.com/OlbermannSwings

    From the opinion piece:
    Most chillingly of all, this is the Law and Order and Terror government. It promised protection -- or at least amelioration -- against all threats: conventional, radiological, or biological. It has just proved that it cannot save its citizens from a biological weapon called standing water.
  20. Accusations of racism are ridiculous by ccmay · · Score: 5, Insightful
    When predominantly white areas are affected by hurricanes, FEMA is much quicker to respond.

    Got any proof of that, or are you just parroting the anti-Bush talking points?

    The Feds always take two or three days to show up, and five to seven days to reach full strength. Local authorities are ALWAYS responsible for the first 72-96 hours of a disaster, that's how all the plans are made, and it's primarily because of the dithering incompetence of the local Democratic pols and the collapse of the New Orleans police department that so many people could not be rescued this time.

    The military won't put people and equipment directly into the path of a hurricane, lest they become victims themselves and lose their airlift capability. But shortly after the storm passes, they pour in.

    Military air, sea, and land operations began on Aug. 30, and in fact, there were more than twice as many soldiers on duty by day 5 of Katrina than on day 5 of Andrew in 1992. And that's after moving them in over a much larger area than Andrew affected. You can't wave a magic wand and move people and machines in an instant, but that seems to be what some of the ignorant anti-Bush ranters are expecting.

    Unless you have invented a Star trek transporter beam, just can the ill-informed bitching and do what you can to help, OK?

    -ccm

    --
    Too much Law; not enough Order.
    1. Re:Accusations of racism are ridiculous by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I thought the delay might have been the result of some rather intense contract negotiations. I mean there were some existing "agreements" in place but some would have argued that this was a exceptional circumstance and required some additional "consideration". Big disaster, big profits for some. Conspiracies are hardly ever required, greed and stupidity will generally suffice.

      Federal government responce time should be based on need alone (if you think anything greater than 24 hours in acceptable for a strong inital responce than I know where your balance of cost and human lives lies).

      Seriously how do you expect state and local government to cope with a major disaster when their ability to do so has been basically destroyed (if they were all dead would you complain because they haven't removed their own bodies).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  21. Re:Depends on interpretation. by glitchvern · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Almost 100% of the displaced evacuees (including the forced evacuees) are black. Almost 100% of the evacuees who voluntarily left and have money, resources, vehicles, etc, are white. I don't know if the fear amongst blacks was "well-founded" but it was certainly damn-near universal and definitely based on race. I'd argue that there's a case for this one, too.

    I live in Southeast Texas. We have an evacuation center in Beaumont. Many black people showed up to the center pre-hurricane landfall. We have some white people who have showed up too and many more people have showed up post-hurricane landfall. New Orleans was 68% black, so seeing a lot of black people shouldn't be surprising. New Orleans is also 20% below the poverty level. The large number of people without cars had no way to get out. Fear didn't have much to do with it. Also there have been a number of hurricanes to miss New Orleans contributing to a sense of invincibility. People just get a bunch of non-parishable food and fill the bathtub with clean drinkable water before the storm hits like their fathers and father's fathers did before them and survived.

    Like I said before I live in Southeast Texas and we've had our share of near hits over the past few years. I remember as a child we use to do the same thing, treat hurricanes as an occasion for a party and just ride the thing out. Until 1992 when Andrew grew in strength at the last minute and threatened to hit us. That was the first time I remember our region receiving evacuation orders. What followed was a complete and total debacle. As everyone tried to use the same road to get out all at once at the last minute the traffic came to a halt. We moved 15 mph and not continously either, it was all stop and go. If it had hit us, I wouldn't be making this post. A van on a road ain't the greatest place to be in the middle of a hurricane. That situation was scary as hell.

    After that warning shot across our bow, we got much more serious about planning evacuations. I don't know if we were the ones who came up with contraflow lane reversal, but after that we started using it. We set up evacution centers all across the state to handle massive evacuations. We have had a number of evacuations since then that have gone much better. We still try to make a party of it though. Go to some other city, get a hotel room, eat out at all these restaurants we don't have in our town. Treat it like a vacation. This makes evacuations somewhat expensive, but going and living in a highschool gym somewhere for a few days isn't anybodies idea of a good time.

    Evacuating major metropolitan areas isn't exactly a cakewalk even when everybody has cars and a tank of gas. There is always some who think they can ride it out and a mandatory evacuation isn't actually mandatory. At least not in Texas, here it's just a declaration no one will help you if you stay. The mayor was lucky to be able to get 80% of his population out of the city pre-landfall. Maybe he could have done better pre-landfall, maybe not. Afterwards, well getting 100,000 people out of a city with one road out left and getting food, water, and medicine in to keep people alive while you do it, and conducting rescue operations, while the criminal portion of your city is in open insurrection just can't be easy. I'm sure a congressional commitee will thoroughly investigate and discover just what went wrong.

    Like I said a lot of black people showed up pre-landfall so some of them had the resources to get out, but then a lot of them didn't too. Blacks aren't a homogeneous group of people you know. One should not make widespread generalizations about who has what resources. There are plenty of poor dead white people in Jefferson and St. Bernard parishes amongst others. The reason they aren't on tv is because the media has trouble imagining important things happening outside the city. As if no one lived in the parishes outside the city.