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Judge Clears the Way for Google's Microsoft Hire
MarkEst1973 was one of the first to write to tell us MSNBC is reporting that a Judge has cleared the way for Google to hire former Microsoft employee Kai-Fu Lee. The hire does come with several limitations and Lee was also found to have 'misled his former employer and taken advantage of confidential Microsoft information'. This comes as a follow up to the original story in which Microsoft sued Google in order to prevent the hire. Tom Burt was quoted as saying that "Dr. Lee is going to be the highest-paid HR manager ever."
Google Blog link.
I am defenseless. Use your button. Mod me down with all of your hatred.
would you want to be this chair?
This is good news all around (all right, maybe not for Mr. Ballmer) as it underscores faith in the rights of employees to work for whom they want when they want assuming they act in reasonably good faith (NOTE: this is a standard hardly applied equitably to corporations.
If you read the transcripts it seems clear (to me at least) Microsoft kind of blew it with this guy. They hired him for important work expanding their market into China and hamstrung him in his ideas and proposals.
Also, as an aside, I got criticized for my post and my views about this issue. Most notable I feel vindicated in this portion of the exchange:
My response (emphasis mine):Also, for the record, in contrast to Tom Burt's crowing ""Dr. Lee is going to be the highest-paid HR manager ever.", Google's main goal was to have Lee to establish recruiting and expansion in China... And I doubt for a moment Lee won't be contributing to discussions about products and company directions. That part of the "contract" is just plain unenforcable.
What is the strategic importance of an HR manager to a company like Google? I'm not dissing HR managers, I just don't really understand how they fit into the picture, and what one can do for a company.
The judge enjoined Lee and his new employer from working on any product or service that relies on confidential information tied to search, natural language processing and speech recognition he obtained while working for Microsoft.
Wasn't the noncompetive clause only good for a year?
Maybe you didn't RTFA:
At the same time, King County Superior Court Judge Steven Gonzalez found that former Microsoft (MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) vice president Kai-Fu Lee had misled his former employer and taken advantage of confidential Microsoft information when first working at Google.
All's not good for Mr. Lee.
-everphilski-
Implement stack ranking for Google.
Microsoft, your kung-fu no good!
am I the first to type to tell Slashdot this article is reporting that someone has eaten all the puncutation marks and hence we were runing out and didnt know how to form a second sentence and so this marathon keeps going with great editorial skills which brings me to the point that please help this sentence keep going for the benefit of mankind....
Here is the part I don't understand. How can the judge actually prevent him from actually working on search, natural language processing and speech recognition many years from now. Who's going to actually keep track of all the compete/noncompete activities?
For the next year he will be the best compensated HR man around. After all MS, that is what the non-competion agreement you made him sign was for....After that, he can freely work to put MS into the ground. Which he will more than likely be very notivated to do after this debacle.
Requiem
at the same story for a story submission :)
Poor chair... :)
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Balmer: I know kai fu.
Schmidt: [eyeing him, hand on chin] Show me
NJ Local Music Scene
Microsoft or not, they were right to challenge his move to Google. Mr. Lee grossly breached his NDA and shared confidential information with a competitor. And it appears he did it to coax google into hiring him for millions. He acted in bad faith and he should be thankful that he got away with as much as he did.
If our VP of XYZ left our company to go work for our competition, *and* we found out he was sharing secret documents with them before he left, *and* was giving them strategic advice based - well, if I was on the legal staff, I'd sue, too.
Dr. Lee is going to be the highest-paid HR manager ever
Most expensive, is more accurate. MS's counsel's point (which previous posters seem to have missed) is that the guy is going to be next to worthless to Google by the time Microsoft is done. Still paid his salary, but unable to do anything he was hired to do (or is able to do.)
Please help metamoderate.
Thought the name sounded familiar - here's my copy of Innovation-Cubed, Silicon Graphics magazine, from 1997 presenting "Dr. Kai-Fu Lee and the future of the 3D Web". The mag also had some neat 3D glasses and photos from the mars sojourner rover.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Google Blog link.
When I was young, we used to call a "corporate blog" the "press release page." They're functionally equivalent, it's just that the web log has a more casual tone than your typical press release which usually follows a strict format.
When are y'all going to realize that crap on a stick is still crap on a stick, even if you call it "aromatic material on a thin rod"?
Please help metamoderate.
Ballmer: 'I've never thrown a chair in my life'
h air_denial/
By Lester Haines
Published Tuesday 13th September 2005 13:37 GMT
Steve Ballmer has denied ever throwing a chair in his life in response to the accusation that he launched said piece of furniture across the room when ex-MS employee Mark Lukovsky told the big fella he was off to Google.
Ballmer simply tells the Telegraph: "I've never thrown a chair in my life," thereby creating the possibility of speculation that it was in fact a table, or a water cooler, or a bronze bust of Bill Gates which bore the brunt of his frustration.
Alternatively, Ballmer may in fact have called a lackey into the office to throw the chair for him. After all, when you've got that much wedge firmly trousered, why project your own office recliner when someone else can do it for you?
On the matter of whether he rather splendidly declared: "Fucking Eric Schmidt is a fucking pussy. I'm going to fucking bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to fucking kill Google," Ballmer is a little less certain.
"Did I want to keep that fellow at the company? Yes. Did I say I wanted to compete with Google? I don't know what words..." he offers. "I don't know. By and large I made a commitment nine years ago that I was not going to curse. I know I've had one or two transgressions in nine years, but I made that commitment to myself. Is that one of them? I don't recall."
The Telegraph opines: "It's hardly a denial. But you get the sense that Ballmer is more upset about this than anyone else. If a highly successful businessman occasionally indulges in a bit of foul language, who cares?"
Er, we do. It's simply not the sort of language we want to hear down at Vulture Central. Chair-chucking we can handle, but really...
Accordingly, here is our suggestion for Steve the next time one of his employees jumps ship: "Blast that Eric Schmidt he really is an utter cad. I'm going to wag my finger in his face, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to see to it that Google..."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/13/ballmer_c
It should be found unconstitutional to deny someone to accept employment at any company because they worked for a competitor at one time, no matter how recent. This is called the FREE MARKET! You have to pay to play.
Of course if someone is privy to confidential information at a job and then woks for a competitor they should not be allowed to discuss trade secrets etc, but the benefit of the doubt has to be given to them until it can be proved they spilled the beans! You have to prove people guilty in my country I thought.
No company owns their employees. Make them an offer they can't refuse or eat it. These are the values we go to war and die for, after all.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
I have been throwing that chair for ten minutes and no hit! It's random, isn't it! Also, I hate it when I throw it close enough for the guy to SIT on and it tells me NOT EVEN CLOSE! Die, chair game!
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
M$ wanted to not take a job for 12 months. Common sense has prevailed.
Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
Ironic? No. Maybe the word you're looking for superfluous.
That's really not the issue here. As much as Microsoft is "evil", it's a perfectly legitimate concern to not want your competitor to hire away your employees for the purpose of learning your secrets. I'm sure I could think up many scenarios that would apply to you and your life, but you're too young to understand. Of course, the irony here is that Microsoft did this very thing to Borland (which resulted in VisualBasic), but than we know that they think the rules don't apply to them. This business with Kai-Fu Lee is not Google's finest hour.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
I worked for an advertising company for several months, to qualify my statements. The exact job of marketing firms and advertising companies is to make you care about whatever the company has to say. This is best done if you don't realize it's happening. Failing all that, cram it down your throat anyway (this is what the advertising people call "brand recognition"; it's a polite way of saying "every time you need soap, you've seen so many of our commercials, you pick up our bar.")
They are obviously just a release of information intended as a starting point for the press
These days, it's the point for the press.
I stand by my original statement- the "google blog" looks exactly like a press release page on a website. It's a listing of stuff about the company, all of it PR. "Our baby was saved by google!" "Here are some features we're excited about!"
Spend a few months working for an advertising firm. See every day emails floating into your inbox from executives bragging about successful "placement" campaigns with the press. See your company hawk the most incredible crap like it was the best thing since sliced bread. Feel your skin crawl- and realize that PR and marketing people are in the business of LYING . We'll see how skeptical you are of anything a corporation publishes...
Please help metamoderate.
Mark Lukovsky
Mark Lukovsky
Mark Lukovsky
Not Kai-Fu Lee.
I guess Google's motto doesn't apply to all. Don't be evil... except its OK to be evil to Microsoft (who are of course VERY evil) apparently.
Actually, if you think about it. That's when its the truest test of how evil or not you are. And I'd say they failed.
What if, oh say, Jesus was only nice to people who where nice to him? He wouldn't be very admire in that case.
A judge on Tuesday cleared the way for Google Inc. to hire a former Microsoft executive to head its Chinese research and development center so long as the employee does not recruit from Microsoft. [...] Lee can begin working for Google (Research) by setting up a research office in China and recruiting software engineers if he does not use confidential information gleaned while he worked at Microsoft, the judge found.
I have worked at two places that got raided by Microsoft for employees. Just about every month, some other important employee disappeared to Microsoft, sometimes in groups of two or three, and then those people would call their buddies and the next month even more would disappear. It was horrible for morale and it was horrible for projects. And of course these people were working on the same things at Microsoft that they had been working on before.
And historically, many of Microsoft's major products were created by hiring away key employees from competitors and then having them build exactly the same product for Microsoft that they had been building before.
This lawsuit is a complete joke, coming from Microsoft. The judge should have told Microsoft to stuff it.
I know everyone isn't fond of the Evil Empire (myself included), but this guy did essentially "screw over" MS. Top it off with violating a no-compete and sharing confidential MS info with Google.
If I was going to jump ship with my present company, I'd at least see if they could work something out with me.
Ballmer will be killing Google just about .... now.
insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
people should able to work when and where they want, attempting to prevent us doing so, is slavery essentially. i certainly agree that you can't allow employee's to steal clients or go to the competition with trade secrets and business intelligence. but a blanket ban on being able to work for anyone else? get real.corperations don't own us, they OWE us.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
I can't believe you just had to explain that. Evidently lead paint is still being used in some areas served by slashdot.
Does Microsoft ever win a lawsuit?
It is because of guys like this that we have to sign non-compete agreements. The fun part about this whole thing and google's insecure desktop search is that the geek community is starting to turn against Google. Its about time.
The first order of business will be designing a talking paperclip for google.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Heh, if you throw the chair with maximum power and about 1/6 - 1/5 angle (eg almost straight up), and get it to hit the first window coming down at a very steep angle you can break the game. The chair won't make it across the landscape, will off the bottom of the screen, and when the screen scrolls into Kai-Fu-Lee's office, his office will be a blank grey screen.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
Oh how I wish I had mod points... I don't see geeks turning against Google too much. Google has some really neat and geeky things going on, and they don't feel they need to charge for it or even keep it closed, like some other companies do. Naw, Google will probably be the geeks champion, along side IBM (yeah really!) for a long time to come. Now, if only IBM and Google teamed up to drive M$ into the ground.... That'd be fun to watch. *evil laughs*
That line is just MSFT spin. They wanted to KEEP google from being able to use him in any role. MSFT lost.
As it stands, Kung Fu gets to open a shop in China, and every comp sci in China will be sending him their resume.
He's not allowed to use his skills learned at MSFT. The man has a long career from Apple and other places before he worked at MSFT. The burden is on MSFT to show he is violating his contract.
And it's only until the trial is over.
And MSFT is no angel. Anyone remember the Dead Borland Society? From the late 90's when MSFT held a "technology expo" next to Borland and offered all their top people several multiples of their Borland salaries to come to the dark side? Brain draining is illegal under california law.
That little stunt cost MSFT an "undisclosed sum of money" paid out to Borland. Settled out of court, naturally (no public record).
Anders Heljsborg (spelling?) got paid something like $6 million dollars and also a huge golden parachute to go over and architect visual studio.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
(provided you're qualified, and someone wants you at a price you're willing to accept)
Maybe you might want to step back into reality.
When you have collusion that acts to preserve less than perfect mobility (e.g. sending jobs to nations that the displaced workers cannot even move to, combined with exorbitantly high cost of education with the added detriment of them able to abuse private entity status e.g. nearly any "prestigious" university), choice as you speak of it, is inexistent.
Well sure - right up until payday. And then, with that cash in your bank account, they don't owe you until you do more work for them. On the other hand, if you're a customer of that corporation... they only owe you if you pay in advance for whatever it is that they do for you.
Well, when they start wrecking nations for using the shield of "private entity" to defend their actions, you might as well consider the debt unpaid. Google is quite the example of this - consider how many hired (I bet it's a minority that's well managed in a bad way) from Midwestern/State Educated backgrounds - where truth and honesty trumps secrecy(in at least the Midwestern background). Stanford, MIT, and others are equally guilty parties for their promotion of exclusive backgrounds that feed organizations such as Google, and support short-term gains and deception.
The best way to avoid feeling "owned" by a company is to start one yourself. Or, be so valuable that you can either strike those non-compete terms from your contract, or get paid so much while you do work there that you don't really care if you have to take a year off of your career when you leave. But there is no "slavery essentially" involved, in that it's all about choice, for everybody involved.
Small companies that last long enough soon exceed the threshold for which they are only able to do evil to survive. Google crossed that mark from day zero, the time they were a Stanford project. Favoring honesty and true humility over elitism seems to be a factor in rejection there.
You might want to take a look at the practical choice reality brings people. The choice you talk about is really theoretical. When access to Ivy-League quality education can be unconditionally guaranteed to 250m+ people, the removal of any restriction to worker mobility, and the proper penalization of those who have worked against such, maybe you'll have your theoretical choice meet reality. It wont be easy or clean, but you're going to have to forcibly remove some abilities of groups that have proven themselves unable to handle it responsibly.
Sometimes you have to have the guts to use force if you're going to create choice that is in line with reality.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
It's one of those nervous jokes that gets nervous laughs from other MS people, because in the end they still lost. It was a sour grapes joke.
Haha, you won, but we burned up the prize before you could see it.
I think this is a marvelous strategy by Google, btw. Simply hire MS employees, not to work for Google, but simply not to work at MS anymore. It takes all the wind out of the sails of any lawsuits, and certainly Google can afford it. MS, to keep employees will have to raise their pay significantly. If I'm making $20/hr programming, but your competitor will pay me $18/hr with guaranteed employment for X number of years, and all I have to do is sit on my butt? No contest.
It's talent draining, and Google is like Night of the Living Dead... brains, Brains, MORE BRAINS!
I8-D
(John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton book on the PR industry - Toxic Sludge Is Good for You!: Lies, Damn Lies and the Public Relations Industry)
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No asshole- I said "when will you all learn crap on a stick is still crap on a stick even if you call it aromatic material on a thin rod."
IN OTHER FUCKING WORDS, SOMETHING DOESN'T CHANGE JUST BECAUSE YOU PUT NICE SPIN ON IT. A CORPORATE BLOG IS STILL A PRESS RELEASE PAGE.
There is an inferrence there, but it's a weak inferrence- not a statement. Jesus christ, you're a nitpicking little fuck. Gb2/kuro5,kthxbubye.
Please help metamoderate.
If you go to microsoft.com and click on jobs, they brag about luring the top Lotus developers to come work on Exchange.
MS should sue the guy directly for breach of contract and take every cent he makes. After all, since you folks here at /. love seeing people sue MS over stupid stuff...let them do the same.