A Gimp In Photoshop's Clothing

comforteagle writes "Scott Moschella, from Attack of the Show!, set out to make The Gimp a little friendlier with a simple UI make-over, creating GimpShop. Despite an outcry from some developers, users have picked it up with passion. Howard Wen has interviewed Scott about why he did this. From the interview: 'I've always thought that GIMP was just as powerful as Photoshop. My way of proving it was to make GIMP work as close to Photoshop as I possibly could, given my limited programming experience.' As more Windows/Mac users discover powerful open source applications are they bound (slashdot disc.) to make more discoveries of this kind?" Update: 09/16 18:48 GMT by Z : Some users have pointed out this is basically an update to a previous discussion we've had. Link added for the sake of completeness.

Comments

Changes overdue.

[MrWiggum]

I love gimp but I always felt that the interface was a little strange. I am glad that somebody is looking into making using the gimp a little more user friendly. However I don't think ripping off PhotoShop is the best way to do that as I'm not super fond of the PhotoShop interface either.

Re:Changes overdue.

[utnow]

As a fan of OSS I'm required to tell you that you should do it yourself. We're trying to make software that has millions of hidden features! User interface is for wimps (gimps?) lol

Re:Changes overdue.

[sabre307]

It could use a bit of an overhaul on the interface. It's not very intuitive to use. It would be nice if you could get a version of GIMP that was designed more for the idiot^H^H^H^H^Hnovice user for quick touchups, without all the extras cluttering up the interface.

Re:Changes overdue.

[bersl2]

The GIMP has its own interface. If someone is throwing a PS interface onto the GIMP to prove a point about its functionality, I would hardly call that "ripping off".

Re:Changes overdue.

[jgbishop]

IMO, the goal isn't to please people with a new interface, but rather to give something people are used to. I use an old version of Photoshop (5.5) fairly regularly, so I'm used to its interface. When I switched over to the Gimp recently to do some work with transparent PNG's, I had an extremely difficult time getting around. Had I known about this at the time, I would have probably used this instead.

Re:Changes overdue.

[Otter]

Calling it "GimpShop", though, is just begging for a (fully deserved) lawsuit. He might as well call it Microsoft Donald Duck Big Mac GIMP.

Re:Changes overdue.

[psocccer]

I honestly don't understand why people say this is what we need to get people to use the gimp, that the awkward interface is holding it back and people need to address usability, when this doesn't even fix the #1 complaint most people have about Gimp, which is that it is not an MDI app.

All GimpShop does is move around the menus, you still have the same floating toolbars and multiple windows like before. So basically this has the UI of the Gimp which seems to turn people off anyways, and the menu layout of PS which most people who'd use Gimp don't know anyway because PS costs too much for them (unless the got it by other means, in which case they're not going to use the Gimp anyway).

And while I'm on the whole MDI thing, how come no one ever bothers to mention that PS on Mac is not MDI either? In fact PS on Mac looks a whole lot like the Gimp, except it has the menubar on top instead of in the image window. I find it confusing because we hear people say "Gimp sucks, it's not MDI!!" and also "Mac is best for Photoshop," and PS on Mac is not MDI so therefore it must suck? But it's the best too? I guess I don't get it, seems to me people rant just to rant.

Re:Changes overdue.

[wuice]

Why does someone always have to be an idiot (or even a novice) in the linux world to enjoy an easier interface? It's amazing that you guys wonder why most users won't touch Linux. Even in the world of computer nerds, it seems you can't escape the machismo mentality. All other things being equal, easier should be better even if you're a guru.

Even when I'm fully proficient with a program, I appreciate an easy, intuitive interface. It lets me get my work done quicker. It's less of a strain on my mind. I can spend those brain-hourse thinking about my next algorithm, learning more new programs, or whatever.

Re:Changes overdue.

[lahvak]

No, for writing a letter, the path is

NotePad -> Emacs -> Jed -> Vim

PS

[mfh]

My way of proving it was to make GIMP work as close to Photoshop as I possibly could, given my limited programming experience.

With Photoshop weighing in at over a thousand dollars Canadian, let me just say that anything that resembles it moderately, without the strange behaviour of PaintShop, is welcomed. Free too? /passes out

It's funny because I can remember thinking about this the other day, and wondering when companies are going to start investing in the future of office systems, to help reduce their own long-term bottom line. If everyone donates $100 to the Gimp/Gimpshop project(s), just imagine the money saving that would come out of it! I would be willing to bet that if this happened, in less than five years open source would outpace Adobe in quality and reliability. The reason most people use Photoshop is for quality and reliability -- not necessarily features as you might expect. It does what I need better than anything else yet, but with some time, effort and financial backing, we'll see superior products come out of the open source community.

Open source needs a well of cash to draw from. I suggest a foundation be made to fund open source projects better than we've seen. Apply and they bankroll your project if you've got something hot. I'd like to see that work on a large scale and I often wonder why SourceForge doesn't take that approach, in favour of small donations to each project on a case-by-case level. I'd love to apply for financing for my crazy open source ideas! It's the money factor that slows me down. I don't have time to pursue it very well because I have to pay bills.

I think it's a great idea

[Fahrvergnuugen]

The only reason I don't use the gimp is because I can't be bothered to learn a new interface. I keep hitting Photoshop's shortcut keys expecting them to work and its frustrating not knowing where all of the menu & tool bar items are.

Another Storm on the Horizon?

[ackthpt]

Moschella:I also thought that the guys at Adobe would soon be looking for me. I haven't heard from them... yet.

To borrow a quote from elsewhere: "If you build it, they will come."

One of Adobe's Lawyers (from their Barrel O' Lawyers): Your Honor, in the defendent's own words:

to make The Gimp a little friendlier with a simple UI make-over, creating GimpShop. Despite an outcry from some developers, users have picked it up with passion. Howard Wen has interviewed Scott about why he did this. From the interview: 'I've always thought that GIMP was just as powerful as Photoshop. My way of proving it was to make GIMP work as close to Photoshop as I possibly could

Judge: I have no recourse other than to find for the plaintiff and wreak all sorts of havoc with Open Source Development.

It depends..

[Bomarrow1]

On what you call friendly. I'm sure some people out there would prefer a graphics editor without a GUI.

GIMP on Macintosh

[aardwolf64]

Powerful open source applications? Have you tried doing anything in GIMP on a Macintosh? It will only run through Apple's X11.app, and it makes a 386 running Windows XP look fast. I was so disappointed by the performance I bought Photoshop Elements for Mac on eBay (it only cost me $30 though... well worth the price.)

Forever playing catch up?

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

I don't get it, why does it seem so many alt-os projects are forever trying to emulate the look and feel of a Windows environment?

Linspire, KDE, GIMP, and others, if you spent the time improving, not cloning, your application, perhaps you'd get more users.

I mean really, if your app is going to look, feel, and function, like a Windows one, why should I use yours??

Re:Paint.net

[Abcd1234]

Wow, way to pimp out your own website when you could have just direct linked to the Paint.NET Website.

Photoshop shortcuts for gimp

[cureless]

For those not aware, you can change the shortcuts in gimp to whatever you want. Some people have already made the photoshop shortcuts for you. So all you have to do is download the gimp-photoshop shortcut file and you're set.

cl

Anyone who says

[noewun]

I've always thought that GIMP was just as powerful as Photoshop. doesn't know WTF they're talking about.

When the GIMP has:

1) CMYK support;

2) Channel math;

3) Industry standard color engine and ICC profile support;

4) Channel mixer;

5) Equal control over color adjustment modes

and a bunch of other shit, then the GIMP will be as powerful as Photoshop. Until then, it's a silly statement to make. While 50% of the people who use Photoshop can very probably do the exact same things with the GIMP, for the 50% who really push Photoshop there is no substitute. And, as you climb higher on that curve to the people who are really stretching Photoshop on a daily basis (mainly very high level retouchers/digital artists) it is quite literally the only tool for the job.

This is one of those time I think open source cheerleading is not a good thing. Just because it's an open source digital image editing program doesn't mean it's the same thing as Adobe's flagship product.

Old news...

[Fuzzle]

This is old news. Everyone on OSX has moved on to using Seashore which is the GIMP is a nice slick OSX package, native Aqua/OSX windows, and overall just a better program. Check it out.

It's been a few months...

[Bent Mind]

It's been a few months since I've seen this on Slashdot (please correct me if this isn't the same gimp-photoshop hack).

Despite an outcry from some developers, users have picked it up with passion.

As I recall, the developers were upset because of the way he went about makeing Gimp look like Photoshop. Rather than making changes to the data files that are used to create the menus, he changed to programing itself. This (going by memory) broke foreign language support. As I recall, Scott wrote the Gimp team and sent his suggestions. The Gimp team wrote back and invited him to join a discustion group. However, Scott decided to fork Gimp and make the changes himself. This of course leaves maintenance up to Scott. I hope he's up to it.

"A horrible waste of time and resources"

[g_adams27]

If you want to see some of the outcry of the GIMP developers against GIMPshop, check out this thread where Scott introduced his project to the GIMP mailing list.

Some of the reactions:

• "[Y]ou aren't doing anyone a favor by doing this. I'd appreciate if you kept your changes for yourself."
• "No, I won't help you. What you are up to is a horrible waste of time and resources."

In Brasil ...

[hummassa]

none.
Our "computer programs law" explicitly excludes "similarity from a preexisting program functionality" from copyright protection, and our patents law explicitly excludes computer programs, methods and algorithms, from patent protection.

Just started using The GIMP...

[RoverDaddy]

and I've already burst a few blood vessels in my skull. I know zero about Photoshop and squat about graphic design in general, but this program seems to take 'non-intuitive' to a new level. And, when I start searching online for more information, I keep running into the same attitude of 'Lump it, l4m3r' if you ask why GIMP doesn't do X the way other software does. I found one interesting Usability Study report which revealed five or six of these issues, but only made half-baked recommendations like 'make this more obvious, put a message here' instead of really changing how the UI works.

A little recognition that users matter would go a long way. I'd be willing to try alternative skins on top of GIMP.

Re:Just started using The GIMP...

[Red Alastor]

I'd suggest the book Grokking The Gimp. You can read it online at this URL :

http://gimp-savvy.com/BOOK/

It's the best book out there to explain how Gimp works to a novice. It actually explain the image manipulation concepts and how to use them. For exemple, it will explain to you *why* a picture look bad.

It was made for version 1.2 of The Gimp but the interface still works the same way.

Except for bezier paths (check Gimp online help by pressing F1 when you get there) and the author tell you that intelligent scissors is broken but it works pretty well in 2.0+ versions.

Re:Gimp is nice, but lacks key features

[bbc]

"To me, the show-stoppers for using Linux/Gimp for my photo work are the following:

        * Color management. Not aware of ICC color profiling. Can I calibrate my monitor with nVideo and ATI Linux drivers? Can Gimp load an ICC profile of my output device to proof my print?"

It seems to me that the major show-stopper is your own laziness to find out these things. GIMP has allowed you to proof your prints using ICC profiles since version 2.0.

I Do Wonder...

[Nom du Keyboard]

I do wonder about those people saying they've removed Photoshop from their machines in order now to focus on GimpShop without backsliding.

Would it be more accurate to say that I removed my illegal, pirated version of Photoshop now that I have GimpShop?

Makes more sense than saying I threw away my $800 legal copy of Photoshop now that I have GimpShop for free.

GUI programs are badly designed.

[MikeFM]

Unfortunately most GUI apps are poorly designed such that the front-end and back-end code are tangled together. If programmers would create the back-end as a discrete entity GUI apps would be much more flexible and stable.

One thing I really hate is when you load a big file and the entire interface freezes while the file loads. Argh! ICQ always did that on my contact list. Horribly coded.

There is no reason why a well designed app shouldn't be portable to different UI's ranging from text based on up. Why not have a text-based version of GIMP or OpenOffice that lets you manipulate the files using command-line commands? Functionality should not be based on the UI.