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Buffer Overflow Found in PSP Firmware v2.0

Doomstalk writes "PSP news site PSP Updates is reporting that a buffer overflow flaw has been found in PSP firmware v2.0's photo viewer. So far it's only been used to corrupt the menu display, but it holds great promise for running homebrew code on upgraded PSPs." From the article: "Thanks to the unknown author(s) for this great starting point to have homebrew on 2.0, all that is needed are coders to extend this knowledge for full homebrew usage on the v2.0 firmware. We cannot say when someone will step up to the plate and write the code for users to run homebrew on a 2.0 using this exploit, but we will definitely have our ears (and email boxes) open and be sure to let you know as soon as we do."

90 comments

  1. Exploit by EnderWigginsXenocide · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When will the first PSP worm/virus be out in the wild?

    --
    Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups. -- 0 1 My two bits
    1. Re:Exploit by Seumas · · Score: 1, Funny

      PSP already has worms.

    2. Re:Exploit by GoRK · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't you mean as soon as it could run windows?

    3. Re:Exploit by chewedtoothpick · · Score: 0, Redundant

      When Paris Hilton owns one.

      --
      Erutangis ym si siht.
    4. Re:Exploit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no point in a PSP Virus, If any of them were mass-bricked, It would end up hurting nobody but sony in the long run because they would have no choice but to fix all the bricked psp's...

      I'm sure somebody could write somthing to brick a psp using the lua language...even just ruin somthing by possibly clocking up all 3 processors by insane amounts then make it do millions of simple commands over and over till it breaks... But the only way it would really spread would be way of the homebrew, and its not like wifi would spread it because nomatter what to recive somthing via wifi you must:

      1: Have the wlan switch on
      2: Have an active connection
      3: Accept this file

      Therefore any worm that would be released would proove useless...

      And if anybody is dumb enough to shop on their psp, well then they should have their identity stolen for not having anywhere near enough security!

      --PrimalTheory

    5. Re:Exploit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're thinking of CRABS.

    6. Re:Exploit by DrSkwid · · Score: 1, Insightful

      your agument is the same for cabir

      Does this sound familiar ? :

      Cabir replicates over bluetooth connections and arrives to phone messaging inbox as caribe.sis file what contains the worm. When user clicks the caribe.sis and chooses to install the Caribe.sis file the worm activates and starts looking for new devices to infect over bluetooth.

      To get cabir you need

      1. Have Bluetooth switched on
      2. Have an active connection
      3. Accept this file
      4. Press OK to install

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    7. Re:Exploit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's time to go back to my good old Game Boy.

    8. Re:Exploit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Will it? Why do you simpletons only think a virus in terms of Ebola?

      They could make a much "happier" virus. A common cold. It can spread from PSP to PSP and not affect operation. Only activate infrequently. Spread freely and undetected by the carriers. The PSP 'Net would be a wonderful platform for attacking other devices. DDoS over wifi hotspots. Getting behind company firewalls. Anonymizing spam.

      Will it happen? I don't know, but I do know a lot of people won't notice.

      PS. This already goes on for Windows, Linux, etc. Not everyone that writes a virus is an amatuer that brings down Yahoo and gets himself noticed.

    9. Re:Exploit by Meagermanx · · Score: 0

      Funny or Insightful?

    10. Re:Exploit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      s/run/crawl/

    11. Re:Exploit by 45gramsOfPlastic · · Score: 1

      I agree. I'm certain that Sony will have no problem keeping practicaly every PSP fully updated by the costumers themselves. They are offering lots of stuff online and it'll probably only work if the PSP is up to date.

      --
      FCK - byens hold
  2. Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by bartkusa · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...but I don't think I've ever seen a buffer overflow being celebrated before.

    1. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by ikkonoishi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well you see when companies go to great lengths to piss off their most devoted customers. It becomes an event worthy of celebration when said customers manage to use the product in the way they wanted to when they paid for it.

    2. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by Bin_jammin · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure people were happy when the first one was found for xbox. I don't imagine party hats and champagne or anything, but a tool is a tool I guess.

    3. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, I'll bite... What did Sony do that "pissed off their most devoted customers"?

    4. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by Doomstalk · · Score: 1
    5. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by tepples · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What did Sony do that "pissed off their most devoted customers"?

      Required all code to be signed by Sony before it would run on a PSP.

    6. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by XMorbius · · Score: 1

      "Okay, I'll bite..." Please man, although I agree with what you're asking, saying that is just insulting to the original poster. And in my eyes, it is somewhat arrogant too.

      Perhaps he's referring to Sony not allowing homebrew applications?

    7. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by buffer-overflowed · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hey, lots of people like me you insensitive clod.

      --
      The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
    8. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by cpu_fusion · · Score: 2

      I think the rule of thumb is:

      DRM, it turns the bad into good, and the good into bad.

      DRM is kind of the "soviet russia" of technology.

    9. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well duh. They sell the PSP at a loss. If everyone could run homebrew apps and nobody bought licensed games, they would lose money.

    10. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever owned a PSX or PS2 where the laser worked for longer than a few months?

    11. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by XXIstCenturyBoy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah... Did you read the forums posts on the so called "psp-dev" sites? People are asking when will the loaders enable them to load UMD images. Thats all they ask. Very little people actually code anything "homebrew" beside porting emulators (and even that is half assed most of the time).
      I'm sure Sony read those forums and it does play a big part in not letting people run unsigned code.

    12. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about you link to an actual article instead of a google search?

    13. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by Doomstalk · · Score: 1

      Mea culpa. Pasted the wrong URL and then didn't preview.

    14. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by Pxtl · · Score: 1

      They sell it at a loss, sure. So why not just release a dongle that costs enough to turn loss into a tidy profit? A $100 official "hacker" dongle that lets coders do what they want? Then everybody wins - Sony makes the profit they're missing, and hackers get their toy.

      But the fact is it's not just about profit. It's about control.

    15. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by JWhiton · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Now, I'm all for hacking your PSP into whatever you want it to be, but it's not like Sony's pulling a bait-and-switch. They wanted this thing to be a tightly controlled console that only ran their approved code, and it's been that way since day one. If you bought it with other intents in mind, then hey, have fun making it meet them, but it's not like you can claim that Sony misled you.

      I know this probably isn't what you meant, but it does carry that implication.

    16. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if all you do is hang around places where people commit crimes dont expect them to be talking about legit things.

      try going to the homebrew areas instead.

    17. Re:Maybe I haven't paid enough attention..... by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

      I don't think that could possibly be a big part when there exists a reason so big as to leave anything else non-existant. The reason is that "unlicensed" 3rd parties would be able to make and sell applications/games without paying anything to Sony. In comparison any other consequences are just extremely minor (albeit beneficial) side effects from Sony's point of view.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
  3. Good Link - More Cash for Content Holdings.Com by Busshy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Theres another exploit here and thats the commercial exploit of the Homebrew scene by Content Holdings.com who brought the PSPhacker domain and when the japs released the hello world and early releases they repackaged the releases as their own and add to that the 3 dollars a month to remove ads that "premium" members pay and also the free psp (and we know thats a scam) site they have and not to mention the fact that if a release is on a site they consider a rival they either say they were emailed the release or another lie. Well at least the site admins can collect more cash now thanks to Slashdot and others, why on earth they didnt link to the coders is beyond anyone but if you remember the BochsPSP news they linked to their own site then also. If your looking for decent news sites for PSP then try http://www.maxconsole.net/ http://psp-news.dcemu.co.uk/ or http://psp-archive.de/

    1. Re:Good Link - More Cash for Content Holdings.Com by SeekerDarksteel · · Score: 2, Funny

      Aww....I think someone needs a friendly visit from our good friend Mr. Period!

      --
      The laws of probability forbid it!
    2. Re:Good Link - More Cash for Content Holdings.Com by Jakeypants · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Theres another exploit here and thats the commercial exploit of the Homebrew scene by Content Holdings.com who brought the PSPhacker domain and when the japs released the hello world and early releases they repackaged the releases as their own and add to that the 3 dollars a month to remove ads that "premium" members pay and also the free psp (and we know thats a scam) site they have and not to mention the fact that if a release is on a site they consider a rival they either say they were emailed the release or another lie."

      What?

  4. Re:Still No Linux Though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah after seeing the Slashdot about the GP2X last week http://www.gbax.com/main.pl i want one of them, no need for any bloody exploits :)

  5. "the japs...."? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "...when the japs..."

    You lost me there. Try again with a little less insultingly ignorant speech next time.

    1. Re:"the japs...."? by goodenoughnickname · · Score: 1

      I didn't know my grandpa visited Slashdot, much less knew how to use a computer...

    2. Re:"the japs...."? by APE992 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Looks like one of Wraggsters cronies has come to visit. Adblock his website and you'll be fine. Or better yet, don't visit any of the dcemu.co.uk ripoff site and visit a real page. Google will have some fine alternatives.

    3. Re:"the japs...."? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's probably Wraggster himself, he's always whoring his sites wherever he posts, like he used to do on vg-network.com.

    4. Re:"the japs...."? by Xarius · · Score: 1

      How is that any more offensive than "...when the brits..." or "...when the aussies..." exactly?

      Stop being so politically correct, it's just an abbreviation, not a sly insult like "yank" or "kraut".

      --
      C17H21NO4
    5. Re:"the japs...."? by Haeleth · · Score: 3, Insightful
      How is that any more offensive than "...when the brits..." or "...when the aussies..." exactly?
      Stop being so politically correct, it's just an abbreviation, not a sly insult like "yank" or "kraut".


      Speaking as a Briton who does not appreciate people using the term "Brit", I would suggest that you would be well advised to accept that different people consider different things acceptable, and that when a large number of people consider a term offensive, it is polite to avoid it.

      A useful tool for finding out which words are considered offensive by a large number of people is a dictionary. How do English dictionaries describe "Jap"?
      American Heritage: "offensive slang"
      Collins: "often derogatory"
      Merriam-Webster: "usually disparaging"
      And what do the Japanese themselves think of it?
      Kenkyusha Eichuu: "zoku, keibetsu" (slang, contemptuous/derogatory)
      Sanseido EXCEED: "keibetsu" (contemptuous/derogatory)
      Hmm, there seems to be a common theme here. I propose to you that it might just be the case that this word is, in fact, not one that's suitable for use in situations where you don't want people to assume that you're ignorant, boorish, or even racist.
  6. why do people fawn over closed-source systems? by Myself · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why throw your money at Sony, who does their best via DRM and everything to keep you out, when open platforms like the Tapwave Zodiac invite developers in?

    Of course, this "feed the hand that bites us" behavior among gamers has already forced the Zodiac off the market -- nobody was buying it.

    Ditto XBox! Why do geeks, who should oppose every shred of DRM and proprietarism that the green thing embodies, go out and buy the thing only to turn it into a set-top linux box? Hello? You're throwing money AT the evil empire.

    I understand there's a certain challenge to "owning" such a closed system. Fine, show Microsoft and Sony you're better than them. But at the end of the day, all this activity does is encourage MORE of exactly the wrong behavior on the megacorps' part.

    1. Re:why do people fawn over closed-source systems? by AvantLegion · · Score: 1

      Because the Zodiac kinda blew? Being an "open" system does not make something a "quality" system.

    2. Re:why do people fawn over closed-source systems? by KillShill · · Score: 2, Interesting

      actually tapwave is just a kinder gentler sony.

      they still require signing but are more likely (relative to sony) to grant you "authorization" (don't you just like how in the modern world you need permission to access your own property?)

      so the tapwave isn't a good example.

      a good example would be something like the gamepark32 (and it's newer brother). there's no "signing" required or supported on the hardware.

      and may i say that " Why throw your money at Sony, who does their best via DRM and everything to keep you out" is an EXCELLENT idea.

      stop supporting DRM and Insidious Computing with your hard earned dollars (drachmas, lira or pesos etc.).

      starve them to death financially.

      they DON'T recognize any other type of protest.

      if i had my own country, i wouldn't let merchants lock customers out of their own property but then again, sane people never get into any positions of power. (lest they offend monied interests).

      --
      Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
    3. Re:why do people fawn over closed-source systems? by AceJohnny · · Score: 2, Insightful

      (As a first side note, I think the GP2X is an interesting throw at an open handheld console.)

      That was cute, but you forget one major aspect of humanity in general and geeks in particular:

      We're lazy.

      And that means we don't uphold our principals 100% of the time. Sure, I'm against closed standards. What's that? A dirt-cheap linux box, with a small (for a PC) form-factor, and they're all identical? I'll take three!
      What? Microsoft? Bah, you know they actually LOSE money on the X-Box hardware, don't you?

      That said, you could hope the geek masses are more educated than the rest of the tarket market for consoles. Even so, we're a minuscule fraction of the effective market.
      You should have realized, by now, that the mass-market actually doesn't care about DRM! As long as they can play Dead Or Alive 5 they just bought on their latest consoles, they're happy.

      And finally, sadly, if a console is open, you can bet that the openness will be used 95% of the time to play pirated games, not homebrew ones. Quite simply because commercial games are of much higher quality than any homebrews! Why is that? see my first point...

      --
      Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
    4. Re:why do people fawn over closed-source systems? by SyncNine · · Score: 1

      Er.

      It might have something to do with Sony's hardware still being supported, as opposed to Zodiac discontinuing support.

      Plus, it's based on PalmOS, isn't it?

      But I could be making that up ...

      --
      To the darkened skies once more, and ever onward.
  7. The Real Emulation Console is Coming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The PSP and this rather lame exploit which only lets you run up to 64kb which to those who dont know isnt enough to run 99% of homebrew and emulators, yes it creates news but its not going anywhere, thank god the new Portable Linux Console that embraces Open Source Coding has arrived, Emulation and Homebrew with out stupid little exploits, yes im talking about the GP2X http://www.gbax.com/main.pl Once it arrives we can say hello to the future of amatuer coding.

    1. Re:The Real Emulation Console is Coming by cowscows · · Score: 4, Funny

      Languages are for communicating. Languages have rules. Rules make it understandable. Some rules involve punctuation. Some times you want to denote the end of one phrase. Then you start the next one. There's a piece of punctuation for this. Yes, I'm talking about the period.

      .

      I hate to pick on someone for their grammar, but there's a difference between having bad grammar and being so incredibly lazy with your writing that a reader has to go over it five times to understand what you're trying to say.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    2. Re:The Real Emulation Console is Coming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like we can say hello to the future of amatuer writing.

  8. i sincerely.... by KillShill · · Score: 1

    welcome our buffer overflow overlords.

    who'd have thunk it?

    that BO's would be a freedom fighting geek's best friend.

    --
    Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
    1. Re:i sincerely.... by AndreiK · · Score: 1

      Between a buffer overflow and Sony/Microsoft, I'll take the overflow any day.

  9. Don't get overexcited by quaker5567 · · Score: 4, Informative

    So far only binaries smaller than 64KB can be run and only in user mode not kernel mode. NO ACCESS TO KERNEL NO DIRECT ACCESS TO FIRMWARE Still a long way to go before a full exploit.

    1. Re:Don't get overexcited by tepples · · Score: 1

      So far only binaries smaller than 64KB can be run and only in user mode not kernel mode.

      But can't a user-mode program make a few syscalls, telling the kernel to open files on the Memory Stick and then copy them into RAM, and then jump to the loaded homebrew code?

    2. Re:Don't get overexcited by quaker5567 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If it were that easy, all the 2.00 owners would be playing mario right now ;)

      Code in user mode can't demand that the kernel do anything. It can ask and see what happens. The kernel will decide itself what it wants to do. There's no direct access to the firmware, thread/process manager etc. from user mode.

    3. Re:Don't get overexcited by default+luser · · Score: 1

      In addition, I don't see what everyone is getting so excited over.

      Let's say they do fully crack firmware 2.0...no big deal. Sony will then launch a knockout punch: GTA: Liberty City Stories automatically installs the brand-new, patched 2.10 firmware.

      Crack the 2.10 firmware? No problem, essential games like Madden 2007 and Lumines 2: "The Bloodening" will come with the spiffy new 2.50 firmware.

      If you ever intended to play official games at all, emulation and homebrew on the PSP will be a losing battle. This isn't like hacking the Xbox, where hardware versions changed only occasionally...Sony holds all the cards here because the vast majority of PSP owners want to play games.

      If you really want an open, hackable platform, there are many to choose from...but they don't come with Sony's games. CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER, damnit.

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

    4. Re:Don't get overexcited by slapout · · Score: 1

      You crazy kids.
      I remember back when 64KB was A LOT of memory.

      --
      Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    5. Re:Don't get overexcited by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd think that games can be modified so they won't require a specific version to run.

  10. I dispute that the Zodiac 'blew' by @madeus · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Actually the Zodiac itself had a better hardware spec than the DS in the shape of vastly more memory, superior support via it's ATI Imageon graphics card, higher resolution display and a much faster CPU). It also had a much sleeker form factor and had the added bonus of being a functional PDA with a huge library of Palm software available for it (something I wish the PSP had).

    Obviously this came at a cost - it was double the price (so at the PSP price point, but with less than PSP level performance, and without the supreme benefit of Sony's brand recognition - which is the only reason I think consumers are willing to trust in a device as expensive as the PSP).

    That aside, I think biggest thing it had issue with was lack of developer support and poor marketing (which to some extent go hand in hand, stores won't stock it and people won't buy it if there are no games, but developers aren't keen to flock to an unknown quantity and invest time and money in such a risky enterprise).

    I was on the verge of buying one but held off when I read about the PSP for the first time, not that I wouldn't mind owning both but the game library for the Zodiac (that is, games that took advantage of the unique 3D hardware - not just the regular Palm games which I've mostly played already) was just too small to imagine me using it for longer than a month or two.

  11. democracy by chigun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I do not agree with funding evil empires such as Sony by purchasing their items and then "cracking" them. Sony will just keep forcing more firmware, and you the faithful consumer, will continue cracking it. In the meantime, you're purchasing new duo sticks, umd vids, and games. Sony has tricked you into becoming a loyal customer by dangling the golden carrot that is their "unbreakable" firmware.

    I'll vote with my dollars and not purchase one at all. The GP2X intrigues me though, even though there is some claim that it will be DRM enabled, I believe that to be just an assurance that it will have the capability of playing shitty DRM files (not that I'd have any anyway).

    --
    swanker than you
    1. Re:democracy by All_Star25 · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://www.gbax.com/drmgp2x.html details the DRM in the GP2X. And plus, I'd imagine it somewhat tricky to implement on a Linux-based platform.

    2. Re:democracy by Xarius · · Score: 0, Redundant

      The GP2X intrigues me though, even though there is some claim that it will be DRM enabled,

      The GP2X website has details about the DRM used, and the reasoning behind it!

      --
      C17H21NO4
    3. Re:democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, buying a PSP costs Sony money. As long as you don't buy games or umd movies it's a losing proposition for them.

      Although technically they've already lost. An unsold PSP costs them just as much as a sold one.

    4. Re:democracy by chigun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Say they lose 100 dollars per PSP purchase for hardware. As opposed to 300 (do the PSPs cost 2 hundo?) if one potential consumer didn't buy one at all. I'd say 300 is a lot more than 100 any day. They don't profit either way, but one significantly reduces their loss-per-unit if one takes the plunge down their rabbit hole.

      --
      swanker than you
    5. Re:democracy by cornface · · Score: 1

      Say they lose 100 dollars per PSP purchase for hardware. As opposed to 300 (do the PSPs cost 2 hundo?) if one potential consumer didn't buy one at all. I'd say 300 is a lot more than 100 any day. They don't profit either way, but one significantly reduces their loss-per-unit if one takes the plunge down their rabbit hole.

      This is only true if merchandise remains unsold. As long as they keep manufacturing in line with demand, your argument does not apply.

  12. Buffer Overflow Exploited More by cyanidenfs · · Score: 2, Informative

    check it on pspupdates.com a hello world program is out for 2.0 psps... not much time before homebrew makes its way to 2.0 psps...

  13. 1.5 Owner by fwitness · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thankfully, there are no games out that force a 2.0 upgrade that I want. I shiver as a gamer saying that. The battle may soon be won over 2.0, but the war will inevitably be won buy Sony when 2.1 is released to fix this. Games will require it, and if you want to play games, you will have to play *their* game of firmware upgrades. It's silly, stupid, and I hate it. I still have the DS, but Sony, please, please, just let us run our homebrew apps. It's a better world if we all get along. Go after the pirates aggressively, fine. But leave us that just want to run a file-transfer program and ScummVM alone. I love your product, please stop fugging with it.

    --
    -- I have fans? Wow.
    1. Re:1.5 Owner by iamnerd · · Score: 1

      It is only a matter of time until everybody is going to have to upgrade to the new firmware. Sony will probably include it on GTA:LCS. I don't plan on owning a PSP so it doesn't really affect me, but I still hope that maybe in the future they will release cheaper development kits that use disks that have less capacity so they can't be used to pirate games but they can still be used to make some small games.

    2. Re:1.5 Owner by fwitness · · Score: 1

      Yep, GTA is probably going to be the killer app for the PSP. I'll be glad when it finally comes out, so I can play games on the PSP. It will be a sad day though, as it will probably upgrade my firmware.

      --
      -- I have fans? Wow.
    3. Re:1.5 Owner by Elite+Xizer · · Score: 4, Informative

      Have you guys not heard of the Firmware changer? There will be no need to upgrade from 1.50 to 2.00 when GTA: LCS arrives. Just run this program and it will let you play it on a 1.5 PSP

    4. Re:1.5 Owner by fwitness · · Score: 1

      Indeed I had not. It's difficult to wade through the mass of PSP software out there. Some bogus, some horribly beta, some incredibly useful. I suppose this is why I still post on slashdot occasionally. :) You have officially made my day.

      --
      -- I have fans? Wow.
    5. Re:1.5 Owner by grumbel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ### but Sony, please, please, just let us run our homebrew apps.

      ACK, especially since the piracy argument is pretty much void, I mean a 1GB memory stick costs around 100EUR, I can get two original games for that price and it might not even enough to hold a single complete game. So to make it work you either need to limit yourself to those games that don't use much diskspace or cutout the cutscenes and other space consuming stuff. So piracy might still be there, but its really far less attractive then say for the PS1 where a 20cent CDR will do for a complete game, so I can hardly see how it should be a big problem on the larger scale.

  14. Not all homebrew sucks by tepples · · Score: 1

    sadly, if a console is open, you can bet that the openness will be used 95% of the time to play pirated games, not homebrew ones.

    There is a middle ground of legal emulation. If you own a copy of a Lucasarts adventure game, and you use your right under 17 USC 117 to use ScummVM DS to install it onto a CompactFlash card and then put the CF card into an adapter on your Nintendo DS, you can still play commercial quality games without piracy.

    Quite simply because commercial games are of much higher quality than any homebrews!

    Not always. Would you rather play Tetris Worlds for GBA, which actually breaks the concept, or would you prefer Tetanus On Drugs for GBA? Would you rather play Lumines on a PSP and Minesweeper on a Pocket PC, or would you prefer Luminesweeper on a GBA SP while your backside is cushioned by a wad of cash?

    1. Re:Not all homebrew sucks by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's all fine and dandy except that falls within the 5% (and I think that's highly generous) of homebrew users. Most people will just download isos from some 0-day warez site and play them on their system, completely ignoring all the homebrew software out there. And the few people enjoying homebrew don't make up for the much larger number of people warezing commercial games. Sure, the PSP didn't run pirated PSP games yet AFAIK but it runs emulated games, some of which (GBA, for example) are still being made and sold so "it's abandonware, noone cares" isn't a valid argument.

      Sony probably doesn't care about people playing illegal roms but they know that it competes with their licensees and makes the platform less attractive to potential developers. And less licensees == less profit.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  15. What about once a console becomes profitable? by tepples · · Score: 1, Insightful

    They sell the PSP at a loss.

    Even if this is true, why don't consoles get decent development tools after they become profitable? PS2 Linux is out of print, and it doesn't work on the slim PS2. Why can't a console have licensed games for the first couple years and then both licensed games and homebrew later? Even more unexplainably, why are hardly any consoles opened to homebrew once the console maker stops authorizing new titles on the platform? Why don't other console makers follow the example of Atari, which opened the 7800, Lynx, and Jaguar?

    1. Re:What about once a console becomes profitable? by British · · Score: 1

      Why don't other console makers follow the example of Atari, which opened the 7800, Lynx, and Jaguar

      Because they want to succeed. You don't want to follow Atari on ANY count..

    2. Re:What about once a console becomes profitable? by tepples · · Score: 1

      So why would opening a console that has been end-of-lifed cause the console maker to fail?

    3. Re:What about once a console becomes profitable? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Releasing public devtools means additional work. Lazyness is already an argument against that.
      It means that commercial devs no longer need official SDKs and licenses which means no more revenue from there.
      It means that any idiot can circumvent the anti-copy system which means the profits for the games companies drop.

      The company has nothing to gain and something to lose from releasing a public SDK, why should they do that? Their goals aren't altruistic, they want to make money and releasing a free public SDK isn't profitable.

      If you want to make games for an open platform with good performance, go develop for the PC or Mac, there's no real reason to make a game for a console when 99% of its userbase cannot use your software and would prefer having it on the PC.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    4. Re:What about once a console becomes profitable? by tepples · · Score: 1

      If you want to make games for an open platform with good performance, go develop for the PC or Mac, there's no real reason to make a game for a console when 99% of its userbase cannot use your software and would prefer having it on the PC.

      OK, so what if I want to make a four-player same-screen game, something like Bomberman or Smash Bros.? Those typically haven't done well on PC. Most households do not have four PCs so that the kids and their friends can play on separate machines on a LAN.

    5. Re:What about once a console becomes profitable? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I've played four player games on one PC, it just requires two gamepads (usually two people can use the keyboard though I think we played Clonk 4 wih three people on the KB and one on the gamepad). Sure, having two gamepads is rare but is it really any less common than a modified console that'll run homebrew stuff?

      I don't have any sales numbers but the japanese indy scene keeps producting four-player-one-PC games (usually inspired by SSBM...) so there seems to be at least some demand for that.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  16. Because at least I don't give a bleepin' damn by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Frankly, I own a gaming console, you know, for gaming. You may notice a highlighted word there. Hint, it's: gaming.

    I do not buy it to make some political statement about open vs closed software. I buy it to play games on it. If Sony has the games I want to play, and some hypothetical vendor has this super-open GPL-conform Stallman-approved ESR-blessed platform without many games, you can guess whose I'll buy. Hint: it starts with "So" and ends with "ny".

    The whole "feeding the hand that bites us" metaphor is emotional and all, but I don't feel bitten at all so far. I gave them some money, I got some games I wanted in return. If anything, I'm "feeding them" to get more games like those in the future. But more pragmatically, I'm not "feeding" anyone. I'm just acting in my own interest as a consumer, and buying the one that's the better product for me right now.

    And if DRM is what it takes to get those games, fine by me. I can still plug the cartridge or UMD in and play the game, right? Well then why should I care what technologies went into that UMD or the loader in the BIOS?

    You assume too much that all geeks are like this or that, all are on a zealot crusade against the very idea of commercial software, and all bought an XBox or a PSP just to run Linux on it. Which is just false. I for example am a terminal geek all right, but I bought my XBox to actually run XBox games like Fable or Jade Empire. Even those two alone make it well worth every cent MS got from me. I know only two people who've modded their XBox and that was to add some multimedia functionality and IIRC a bigger hard drive, not to run Linux on it.

    Basically rest assured that when you read news about someone's uber-l33t port of Linux to some game console, you're really reading about a small minority that gives a damn at all, and mostly just to show that they can do it. It's the geek equivalent of showing that you can tear a phonebook with your bare hands: it's not actually _needed_ (there are easier ways to destroy a phonebook), it's not what everyone buys a phonebook for, and it doesn't make it a better phonebook than it was before being torn. It's just a way to show off. Unlike tearing a phone book with your bare hands, though, pretty much noone else gives a damn about it.

    Now lot more people will care about it if it lets them pirate UMD games and play them off the memory card. (That was the main reason people modded their PS1, PS2 and XBox, btw: to be able to play pirated games.) But even then we're talking freeloaders, not people on a holy jihad for the glory of OSS. Rest assured that _all_ they wanted was to let someone else (e.g., the rest of us paying customers whose money keeps those devs in business) pay the tab for their gaming, not to make some "free as in speech" political point.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  17. Actuallly, I don't feel tricked at all by Moraelin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As I was saying before, I bought it to play games on it. Sony didn't have to "trick" me into anything. They just had to have the games I want to play. That's all.

    Yeah, if all you wanted from a portable console was to run some old emulator on it, the PSP might not be the one for you. But then you know what? Go buy whatever console lets you run those, and quit whining already. Does the GP2X let you run those? Well, good for you, then. Get one of those, then, and give it a rest already.

    No, seriously. It's not like we don't already have enough Nintendo fanboys ranting and raving about how the PSP is T3H 3V1L!!!111, stiffles innovation, makes God kill small kittens, etc, and how about all of us who bought one are some servants of the Antichrist. I don't need yet another group telling me that I'm some kind of a tricked victim, just because I wanted to play Lumines, Mercury and the racing games.

    Get this: most of us actually knew very well what we were buying. There was no trick, there was no broken promise, nothing of the kind. Sony didn't dangle the carrot of "but you'll be able to run a NES emulator on it" in front of us at any point. They only said there'll be games and UMD movies for it. That's all. And I fail to see how buying one for those counts as being "tricked". Did any of Sony's patches make it no longer play UMD games or movies, or what? Well, wake me up if they ever do that, because only then it will count as being "tricked".

    And generally, WTF? I thought we were in the "Games" section, not in the "let's whine about proprietary stuff" section. Did this story get posted in the Linux section too, or what?

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:Actuallly, I don't feel tricked at all by phxbadash · · Score: 1

      This is slashdot, where linux zealots will take any opportunity they can to whine about how big company X is trying to prevent them from running they're favourite distro of linux on widget Y cause linux is the bestest awesomest most coolest thing in the WHOLE WIDE WORLD!!!!1!1eleventyone!!

      Me I agree with you. I got my PSP to play games on and I don't have a problem paying money to buy those games. If DRM gets to the point where it truly restricts my or anyone else's ability to use the products I purchase as intended, then I will simply stop buying them. Simple as that.

    2. Re:Actuallly, I don't feel tricked at all by chigun · · Score: 1

      You are not the consumer I was referring to, so simmer down. The average consumer (you apparently) will never notice anything but good changes in their "updated" firmware. I have nothing against proprietary formats in theory, but proprietary hardware that ONLY supports that format, just plain sucks.

      Sony is always pulling crap like this and then years down the line they play catchup (like the stupid "network walkman" or whatever its called).

      The PSP is an elegant product, i do not deny that, but elegance is not enough for me anymore. Supporting Sony by buying their products is tantamount to supporting the new paradigm where the consumer owns nothing and only "licenses" their products. That sounds like nothing more than a Brave New World to me.

      --
      swanker than you
  18. Let's admit it by Fastball · · Score: 1

    Paint Shop Pro just isn't what it used to be. Who wants to start a fork?!

    1. Re:Let's admit it by Bob+of+Dole · · Score: 1

      Amen. I'm still using PSP3, because the newer versions are trying to be photoshop.
      (And to use a geek cliche, If I want photoshop, I know where to find it)

  19. Games and Apps for 2.0!! by Wingfat · · Score: 1

    Hello everyone. I upgraded my PSP to 2.0 so i could try and make some games for the new firmware version. I have written a few Java type games that work well useing the built in browser in the 2.0 firmware. These games/Apps can be launched from the browser pretty easy. If anyone knows of a good place to upload them so the PSP world can get to them let me know. Or if you want me to email you insrtuctions on how to do such things drop me a line :)

  20. Sold out permanently. by tepples · · Score: 1

    So why not just release a dongle that costs enough to turn loss into a tidy profit?

    Sony did make such a dongle for the PS1 (called Net Yarôze) and the PS2 (called "PS2 Linux Kit"), but both were limited in their capability, and neither was manufactured in near enough quantity for it to be interpreted as more than a token effort. Nor is there such a dongle for the PSP or any public plans to make one.

  21. Dreamcast by tepples · · Score: 1

    I've played four player games on one PC, it just requires two gamepads (usually two people can use the keyboard though I think we played Clonk 4 wih three people on the KB and one on the gamepad).

    It also requires a TV output, or would you recommend crowding four players around a 17" monitor?

    Sure, having two gamepads is rare but is it really any less common than a modified console that'll run homebrew stuff?

    No, you don't need to mod a Dreamcast console to play homebrew that has been burned onto CD-R. Both the old firmware and the new "non-MIL-CD" firmware have been cracked so that a CD-R disc can self-boot without a modchip.

    And if I want to make games that run on a handheld, which widely sold open handheld has decent controls for games?