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Major Retailer Chooses Linux for its Tills
An anonymous reader writes "ZDNet is running an article on how Matalan has installed several thousand point of sale terminals running Linux rather than Windows. The reason? Reduced cost of ownership. It was a big consultancy that did the work, Capgemini, and IBM on the kit side. Sounds like some people can get Linux to work in an 'enterprise environment' after all."
I work as a cashier at a grocery store, and they run MS XP Embedded. We have at least 1 till crash at least once a day. Causing major headaches, I wish we had them running on Linux...
Hehe. MSFT is going to be pretty unhappy with Capgemini.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Okay, maybe I'm a technological ignoramus, but when the guy in the article talks about IBM being able "to connect onto the till remotely and go onto the BIOS" I am a bit puzzled.
Is this possible with a normal PC motherboard? Or are they using some different type of system which provides hooks for the OS to do this?
I really think POS is an important step for Linux acceptance. The beauty of Linux, of corse, is that it can run on an AS/400 or a wristwatch; and everything inbetween. I cringe when I see POS machines just running a terminal within Windows; think of what they are paying just to have telnet to a main system! While I, and most good geeks, run nothing but Linux for desktops, it'll take time to get them past the exec level; but for POS it's all about the bottom line, and no one will be able to beat Linux in that field. I think that will be the tipping point, but feel it's still ~3 years off.
fak3r.com
Reality test... am I dreaming?
Linux will never as much of a POS as Windows!
A Piece O'...
Matalan stock goes up 1.75 points.
Microsoft swears by it's "independent" studies that windows is better, faster, cheaper!
And besides, what about licencing? You absolutely have to have that!
OMFG! And I almost forgot, you actually OWN your installed copy of linux, as opposed to MSWXP! Why, why would you actually want to OWN the software you pay money for? Are you crazy?
Up is down! Down is up! The world doesn't make any sense anymore!
A couple fans told me that my last journal entry was mint; give it a shot. Hope you like.
Point of Sale systems are really not enterprise level software or whatever. Usually the simpler it is it the better. Using linux for Point of Sale systems are just a good idea, first you can make linux very basic without the crap. Having it in a small factor allowing it to run on cheap systems, without the extra junk in the way. But to say this proves the linux is enterprise ready because of these is just silly. Most Point of Sales systems are running on DOS.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
There are two other major chains I know of using Linux in their POS - burlington coat factory (I think most people knew about that) and Valvoline oil change places. I noticed the Valvoline place I went to last year using some console app, but was just booting up and he logged in to a RedHat 6.2 system. I'm sure there are others - I don't often bother to look, but it's nice to see all the same. Who knows of others openly using Linux as POS?
creation science book
As I post this from an installation of Suse 10 RC1, I know that GNU/Linux is an operating system that can be used in place of Windows or Mac OS X. It does something better. It does somethings worse.
Articles like this might be important to show some people, but I feel like the Slashdot crowd should be beyond this. Slashdot readers should know that GNU/Linux is a great operating system. They should also know that it isn't the be all and end all of software (I'm DEFINITELY not saying that Windows is).
For me, this article says stupid things like "abstraction is bad". Abstraction is good most of the time, but it criticizes Windows for it. Really, it should have said that Windows doesn't offer you an alternative to their abstraction and we wanted to hack some code that would communicate right with the BIOS and Linux allowed us to do that because with free software the attitude isn't 'my way or the highway'. I really wish that the article talked about how, because GNU/Linux is a loose association of tools rather than a monolithic package, one can pick and choose which tools to include for an application like a cash register without all the crap you don't need. That's especially important for the embedded space (and something that isn't important for most/all desktop users) and something that GNU/Linux allows that Windows doesn't. That's something to point out.
I work for an electronics company in the UK called Maplin.
They allready use Fedora for all their equipment.
Thunderbird for e-mail and firefox for web browser.
Our company has also switched to Linux on both servers and desktops recently. We are already saving thousands of dollars and it was probably the best decision the board has ever made. Instead of constant virus and service call hell we went to virtually zero problems and everyone loves it.
We run DOS.
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
Did anyone else read this as " Major Retailer Chooses Linux for its Thrills" at first?
;)
Linux turns me on too...
I got nothin'
Since everybody else is posting the os's of POS systems and there backends, I can't think of a more appropriate place to post the ones I know of(which is only one for myself).
s eStudy.asp?CaseStudyID=17131
RadioShack:
POS: Windows XP Embedded
Backend: SCO Unix (I believe its version 5, I might be mistaken).
In fact Microsoft has posted a story on how RadioShack supposedly saved millions of dollars by using windows. I can say personally that is far from the case and Linux would of been the better choice.
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/Ca
Insert Witty Remark Here ===>____________________________
When I see the POS acronym, and when someone mentions a POS system, my very first thought is to image a system that is literally a piece of $#!+ I know what POS is supposed to mean here. Really, I do.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
I worked at a fast food place and the terminals used some sort of embedded OS. I was able to ascertain much about the machines other than they had 100MHz embedded processors, used a 10/100 LAN to access the main computer (POS Dell PII running NT 3.51 that ALWAYS crashed) and the monitors in the back and serial ports to talk to the cash drawer and receipt printer. We had the terminals go down exactly once, and that was when the menu was being updated and it borked. I don't think it was Linux or UNIX as these registers were made in about 1995 and they talk to a Windows machine of about the same vintage. My bet is some custom, proprietary embedded OS. But I know our university bookstore uses Windows NT4 on most of the registers and XP on the rest. The Lowe's store in my town uses a KDE-based Linux distribution. I saw their monitor when they showed me they were out of the part I needed- sure 'nuff it was KDE 3.0 or 3.1 or something like that. I mentioned that they had a Linux computer and the guy bent down and looked at the front of the case and said, "Nope, I think it's an IBM..."
Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
What you might be missing is the backend that these systems integrate with. The deployment and management infrastructure in place. No it isn't the kind of massive backend type enterprise deployments you like to hear about, but it is still a good win for Linux. If Linux performs well on all of the tills it makes it easier for that company to integrate more Linux boxes everywhere.
Jeremy
Go to Lowes and you'll see a KDE based desktop.
has the lower cost of 0wnership!
Nobody's gay for Mole-Man.
I work for a small retailer, and we use windows running the Wasp POS system. It comes with a cash drawer, bar code scanner, and recipt printer. Our owner, as well as me, would love to switch to Linux (like to try tuxPOS), but we have no idea if the hardware would work with little puttsing with it, as we can afford NO downtime.
On a side note, our system just crashed last week, and with it, our admiration for windows waxes.
Home hardware stores have used a linux-based POS and inventory control system for at least the last 2 years- and I believe for much longer (2 years ago was the first time I noted the terminals were running Linux, but it looked like they had been that way for a while) If you want to talk about a really LARGE company using Linux for server systems- RadioShack has used SCO Linux (yes, I know, I know) for at minimum the last decade, in all of their 5200+ company owned stores. UNFORTUNATELY they've just started phasing their POS server and inventory system to a program running on Windows Server, so they can reduce backroom equipment from 2 computers to 1, and further automation between website and POS system. Id've rather stuck to the dual-computer system, because now when the webserver goes down, I get to write hand tickets.
even better:
/dev/printer
echo ^g >
most of your cash drawers are connected to receipt printers that when they get the bell command, send the signal to kick open the till.
Speaking from the perspective of someone who worked at an acme two summers ago back in high school I can tell you that this is a blessing. Most people will tell you dos is stable, most people who have worked on dos extensively will tell you this, most people who will tell you this havn't really used dos for anything more than reformatting in the last 7 years. We ran dos on all of our machines our software booted up on top of that, despite generally working at nights I got to see this event daily because our systems went down at least once a week. We never had a day where a single system didn't go down. Sometimes we'd be totally down for half an hour while our server spit fire. I got my hands on one of these machines once because the manager was fed up because he couldn't get it to reconnect to the server, in linux all I would have had to do was redefine the ethernet card, in dos I sat there for an hour and a half and cursed and screamed and kicked the thing because there was rather simply no way to do this, the system said it wasn't there, the bios said it was, we couldn't even try reinstalling the drivers if we had them cause the thing didn't have any sort of disk drive.
I'm no windows hater, I like games those require windows. But anyone running an office app, server, or POS with/on windows should be shot.
I used to work at a supermarket during high school. They had OS2/Warp on all the registers operated by the cashires. Then they had a couple self-scan registers which were running Windows 2000. The self-scan's would crash daily while the manual's would never go down except when the power went out (which happened a couple of times during the year and a half that I worked there). OS2/Warp is just about dead these days, so its good to know IBM is still carrying on in the POS (Point of Sale) business with a quality OS.
The other day I went into a different supermarket and saw a cash register which had the message "Powered by Microsoft Windows NT" on the bottom of the screen. It made me cringe.
They're a large clothing discount chain here in the UK. See here for more info.
I've seen quite a few registers run xenix, even fairly recently. It was kind of funny, the POS software must've crashed or there was a hardware fault or something, because the poor machine would keep trying to reboot, proudly displaying something like "SCO Xenix copyright 1987" every time. Needless to say that their machines were ancient, probably the original 386's, but it was entertaining, nonetheless.
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Of course I could be totally wrong about this, but from everyone I talked to while working there, I gathered that this was pretty much the norm.
Seriously.. this is just a copy and paste job from the article... take a look at this guy's profile (and name for that matter) to see a list of the quality stuff he's written on slashdot.
However, He did change "In contrast, " to "though", but I don't think that constitutes a new and insightful thought.
Quoth the article:
Both Windows and Linux met the security requirements set by Matalan, but Linux was preferred by the retailer as it was less of a target for malicious code, according to Menzel. The evaluation began at the end of 2003 when the Blaster worm was wreaking havoc in companies. In contrast, there have been no serious outbreaks of Linux viruses in the wild, which gave the open source operating system a definite advantage in the eyes of Matalan executives, Menzel said.
She loves me: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0 She loves me not: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688BF
It was also a popular OS for vertial applications such as bank terminals. NationsBank grew from a tiny bank to the 6th largest bank (before they were bought by Bank of America) on a plan of aggressive acquisition. A large part of this strategy was their computer infrastructure. It was heavily based on OS/2: Each branch had a single centrally-administered OS/2 Workspace on Demand server. All computers in a branch would actually boot from the server (LTSP-style), with all of its applications ready to go. If the bank wanted to update their software, they could push these changes from a central point to each branch overnight (or over time), and schedule the switchover. The next day, everyone came in and was completely updated.
You can do the same with Linux (I already mentioned LTSP, but this was almost 10 years ago.
Like they say, what's old is new again.
Linux IT Consulting and Domino Development in Michigan
When were you last involved with a POS implementation at a retailer? Cause I did one a couple years ago, for a retailer, and the in-store systems that the client was putting in place were fairly complicated. The actual POS terminal itself is a fairly minor part of the whole in-store system. The work for things like inventory tracking and restocking (from suppliers), EOD and realtime sales numbers, even time card and other HR type functionality, is usually done on back office servers. Sadly, the article was thin on details about the particular system that was implemented, so the argument is largely speculative at the moment, but to say that POS systems aren't "enterprise" is just not true, particularly if the business sells product for a living.
So a system...used by enterprises....is not an enterprise system...
Interesting you should mention Lowes. I was there today (which isn't really uncommon), but just as the cashier is finishing ringing things up, she looks at me and says "I hit total and the register rebooted". NCR equipment, user logon is X. I didn't pay attention to see if it was running Linux or just a thin client connected to a unix server.
It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. -- Harry Truman
I love linux! I wish I had a major big organisation so I could deploy it all over, from the servers, through the desktops, to the devices. Wait, make that a government, I wish I were a head of a government so I could dictate that Linux would run on all its computers. I'm sure with linux the schools and public libraries would be alright. Once it's in the schools and libraries, people would get used to it, firefox and gaim are just fine, so are gimp and openoffice, and there'd be no reason for them to fear it in the workplace or at home.
I'm guessing that you are in a different country than they are. (I'll refrain from speculating on which country you live in)
Company info from the first page foound by Googling "Matalan".
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"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
Not true. You do NOT own the software under copyright law. You own the hardware and the disc the software is distributed on. All of the software you run is licensed from third parties, albeit under a very permissive license.
This is the same as with a book. You own the paper it is printed on, but the content is not yours, but you are using it with the copyright owner's permission. In-fact, that was a bad analogy on your part. The GPL is much less restrictive than normal copyright law under which the contents of a book are normally redistributed.
It doesn't matter whether you use software under the most restrictive license in the world or the most permissive, unless you write it yourself or have the copyright assigned to you, you don't own it.
This applies to BSD software too. Ownership of a piece of software implies ownership of the copyrights, which isn't, and couldn't be, granted with the GPL, or any other software license for that matter, since ownership has to be transfered through a contract, not a license.
Point of Sale systems are really not enterprise level software or whatever.
Crikey, first in the ssh story, now here.
If big businesses like Matalan rely on this software, then it is "enterprise-ready" by definition.
Seriously, "enterprise-ready" is a meaningless buzzword that is twisted to mean whatever the speaker wishes it to mean. When the proprietary ssh company was talking about openssh not being "enterprise-ready", they meant "apart from the fact that massive organisations like Cisco etc rely on it". When you are saying that thesse systems are not "enterprise-ready", you mean "apart from the fact that massive organisations like Matalan rely on it".
If there is any meaning whatsoever to the term "enterprise-ready", then these systems fit it. They cannot be simultaneously relied upon by enterprises like Cisco, Matalan, etc, and not be "enterprise-ready".
Surprising....you read Slashdot yet you have never heard of Google.
The POS systems in the convenience store where I work runs Win2K (NCR machines running Retalix storepoint if anybody cares). Anyways, they use touchscreens which suck, but because of this they assume you won't have a keyboard hooked up to it. One night I grabbed a keyboard from one of the systems in the backroom and was able to do a quick Winkey+D to get to the desktop and have some fun, looking around all the systems on the network, figuring out how it all works together, playing minesweeper, etc.
Our Retalix system is a piece of shit, by the way, there are all kinds of bugs in it, mostly just annoyances, but a few of them are pretty bad (i.e. potentially allowing an employee to steal cash). However, I don't know how much of this is my company sucking and how much of this is Retalix though.
Anyways, the program would often crash. When I would work, I would be the only employee there (I knew how to run the place myself, and they took advantage of that). My manager (a very bad one...1 week after I quit, she got fired), took upwards of 2 hours to reach at times...and then a 10-minute drive...so the machine would be out of order for 2 hours, at times.
Funny thing is...I'd still sell things. I'd keep track of everything (with pen and paper) I sold, and did all the math in my head... I had a key to the register, so I'd leave it open... never came up more than 10 cents off.
Earn a % of cash back from Newegg, Tiger Direct, Walmart.com, and more: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=458505
Most of Lowe's non-register computers run Linux and Mozilla. They can also run the terminal program that the tills use. Lowe's only use Windows for kitchen design software and training software.
apparently, most airports use a windows box for each and every display (such as the ones showing the flight number at the gates). those seem to regularly crash, with nice BSODs that makes the airport look dumb. see for instance LAS (Las Vegas McCarran).
The unfettered ability to do whatever you want with a thing is not a necessary condition to "ownership." You may be thinking of "0wnage."
As a manager in a retail enviroment I can tell you that having the latest and greatest is not the best for retailing. I would love for usability studies to be done on POS systems. The biggest problem that I see with a POS system is the administration of that system. For a mid-size company, it takes three people nearly 15 hours a week to make sure that the system works, and that the information is accurate. As far as the cashiers are concerned (and I cashier from time to time), the eye candy and all the other stuff is just fluff. All a cashier needs is stability and the information quickly. If a DOS 4.1 machine can provide that stability, while providing the information then there is no need to upgrade or worry. The system we use has its quarks, but frankly, the customer never knows because the cashiers have a level of usability that enables them to preform their job efficently and accurately. In fact, we have looked at upgrading and/or switching to another POS, but frankly, while it might give management more information, we view the potential upgrade as a risk to disrupting customer relations. So I guess the point of this, if your local auto parts store has a system that works, why bother to upgrade if it provides the functionality that the customer demands and the cashiers expect. If I had to upgrade the software and hardware on the POS machines ever two to three years, it would have major implications on the customers. Heck, our POS systems are merely Windows 95 machines. And I don't see an upgrade any time soon. The computers we are using to administer the system are pretty slick, but if that rarely affects the customer. Now in an enviroment where the computer systems are defined by when the location is built, then I can see this being a big issue. If you build XXX stores a year, then this becomes a major issue. But that means that the POS and the operating system that you choose has to scale.
The views expressed are mine own and do not express the views of my employer.
No, I own the software I run.
That does not mean I own the copyright to the software.
You're conflating two entirely different things. Go back to your analogy with the book.
I have boxes and boxes of books. I own every single book.
I don't own any copyrights in most of them, but I still own the books.
Just like I own the software on my computer.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
"Sounds like some people can get Linux to work in an 'enterprise environment' after all."
Who (besides Microsoft and their paid shills) have you heard arguing that Linux doesn't work in the enterprise? Linux is somewhere in the server room at any place big enough to have a server room. What people do argue is that Linux on the desktop isn't ready for the enterprise - but that's not what this is. A cash register isn't a desktop (though it might run on desktop hardware), it's a single purpose machine that's going to run one application only. Linux has been doing well in the embedded market for a long time, and that's essentially what this is.
I am a manager for a movie theatre company which uses Windows 2000 box office and concessions POS terminals. The software running on those terminals connects with an Access database served on a Windows 2000 Server box. The machines themselves are reliable, with uptimes measured in weeks or months. (Of course, such uptimes mean the machines aren't being patched regularly, but they don't give me the admin password ;) ). If I weren't such a Unix junkie, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend such a setup as a point of sale solution for a company that was unwilling to train Unix personnel to support the setup.
:)
However, the software running on the terminals is HORRIBLE. I have never encountered such sub-par coding and attention to detail in my life. For example, on our box office stations, if a customer decides to purchase tickets on a credit card and swipes the card through the reader before the cashier has a chance to push the Pay -> Credit button sequence, the application rings the sale up as a cash sale, then promptly crashes. Huh? The average student in an intro CS course can write better VB than these clowns.
At any rate, because of the sheer shoddiness of the software, we have enormous support costs. Managers who know their way around computers (me) are forever restarting the POS application or troubleshooting some issue or another. When we tech-savvy managers aren't around, the mere mortals are forced to ring up transactions for the rest of the evening using calculators and paper records until one of us or an IT guy can come in. (The IT guys, by the way, are based over a hundred miles away.)
Because of the poor quality of the software, our current Windows solution is not cost-effective. However, if these clowns wrote a Unix-based POS application, our TCO would still be high simply because we are always having people support the application as opposed to the platform. That isn't to say I wouldn't be thrilled if we ditched the software and moved to Linux...or even better, OpenBSD (cue the Netcraft spam).
By the way, if you are in the IT department of a large movie theatre corporation and you are considering a POS solution, don't touch Splyce with a ten-foot pole.
$ whatis themeaningoflife
themeaningoflife: not found
Damn, I hate to come in so late on a POS discussion. Linux POS is my specialty; I've been writing POS software since 1977. Even here in my home I can touch an icon on my touchscreen X terminal display and open a remote graphic to any of my customers' sites. With a couple of touches I can order a beer in Texas, a pizza in Florida or a burrito in California. I can put a wireless touchscreen X terminal display in your hand or build one into a restaurant table table that will let a customer do the same thing - enter & pay for their own order. POS has come a long way. What's ahead will be even better.