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Congress Pays You $3 Billion to Keep Watching TV

Felix the Cat writes "After budgets cuts led to the layoff of engineers and scientists at NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a US Senate committee has approved a $3 billion dollar subsidy to assist Americans in their difficult transition to digital television in 2009. The old analog television spectrum will be auctioned off to the highest bidder. The transition date was chosen to not interfere with college football bowl games or basketball playoffs." From the article: "The draft of a House bill would end analog transmissions on Dec. 31, 2008. It does not mention a subsidy for set-top converter boxes. So, lawmakers will likely have to work out differences between the two bills, though Stevens said he did not anticipate a big fight with the House over the deadline or the subsidy."

80 of 511 comments (clear)

  1. Stupid. by Seumas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have an idea.

    How about CONSUMERS pay for new TVs or converters themselves? They don't get cable free. They don't get a free CD palyer when cassettes go out of style.

    And if someone MUST baby the consumer, how about the fucking TELEVISION INDUSTRY do the subsidizing, instead? Why in the fucking hell should tax money go toward it? If we're going to spend billions of tax dollars on televisions, let's spend it subsidizing people to NOT own them?

    Seriously, we already fucking subsidize breeders and marriage. Now we want to add television watching to that?!

    I so fucking give up. You win. Where do I go for the nearest de-education center so I can join the mind-numbed consumer masses?

    1. Re:Stupid. by Daleks · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We are paying for this. The $3 billion is coming from the tax payers. The funny thing is, it's really the TV industry that forced us to pay for this ourselves, automatically via taxes.

    2. Re:Stupid. by aeoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the government is affraid that without TV's the public will develop critical thinking skills and start thinking for themselves. And critical thinking skills is not something the government would want the people to have.

    3. Re:Stupid. by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, from the proposals I've heard about, the money will come from the auctioning of the reclaimed spectrum for other uses, which should generate a LOT more money than $3B.

    4. Re:Stupid. by EnronHaliburton2004 · · Score: 4, Informative

      How about CONSUMERS pay for new TVs or converters themselves? They don't get cable free.

      But we do get OTA broadcasts for free, the converters ain't cheap, and digital television requires a strong signal, which most of us can't get with those $20 rabbit ears. I get 17 channels on my 10 year old TV for free. Many channels are snowy, but watchable. A poor-quality digital signal is like watching a scratched DVD.

      And as for cable & satellite, most consumers will end up buying the converters-- either by paying directly, or through added hidden fees from the television provider. "The box is free, but there's a $100 service charge".

      how about the fucking TELEVISION INDUSTRY do the subsidizing, instead? Why in the fucking hell should tax money go toward it?

      Because the government is forcing the television broadcasters to give up their portion of the analog spectrum, in favor of the new Digital standard. Even if Digital Television does reach 85% of American households, few companies would willingly lose 15% of their audience-- nobody is willing to take the first jump, which is why the FCC is mandating an end date to all broadcasters at once.

      I agree with you. The whole thing is stupid, but it's just one more item in a long list of $5000 HDTVs and consumers who pay $100 to watch commercials.

    5. Re:Stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How about CONSUMERS pay for new TVs or converters themselves? They don't get cable free. They don't get a free CD palyer(sic) when cassettes go out of style.

      The government didn't destory all cassette tapes six years after the CD player was first sold to the public, now did they?

      CONSUMERS have already paid billions of dollars for televisions that work perfectly fine with free over the air analog signals. The government, in its infinite wisdom, has decided that free over the air analog signals should disappear, instantly making all of that equipment obsolete unless a digital converter box is installed. The government, in its infinite wisdom, has also decided that it will sell/lease this signal space for billions of dollars to private enterprise, with some fraction reserved for public service use.

      It seems perfectly reasonable for the government to dedicate a portion of the revenues that it will realize with this giant electromagnetic spectrum swap to compensate CONSUMERS who couldn't care less about free over the air digital television verses free over the air analog television.

      And if someone MUST baby the consumer, how about the fucking TELEVISION INDUSTRY do the subsidizing, instead? Why in the fucking hell should tax money go toward it?

      Read the above. The purchasers of the old free over the air analog spectrum are in effect subsidizing the conversion. It's only "tax money" if you ignore this major detail.

      If we're going to spend billions of tax dollars on televisions, let's spend it subsidizing people to NOT own them?

      Because this is a democracy, and the "we don't even own a television" portion of the population has even less political power than PETA.

      Seriously, we already fucking subsidize breeders and marriage.

      Economic and political trends in Western Europe and Japan both show why subsidizing the "breeders" is a sound economic policy. I'm not even touching the comment on marriage.

      Where do I go for the nearest de-education center so I can join the mind-numbed consumer masses?

      As a married man with a child, a graduate engineering degree, a law degree, and a television, I officially invite you to go for (sic) the nearest tall building and take a flying leap. You don't need a de-education center, since your prior education seems to have failed to instill any sort of critical reasoning ability.

    6. Re:Stupid. by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2, Informative

      But we do get OTA broadcasts for free, the converters ain't cheap, and digital television requires a strong signal, which most of us can't get with those $20 rabbit ears.

      That's because, at present, most digital channels use UHF. Rabbit ears are really only good for getting VHF stations.

    7. Re:Stupid. by ilyaaohell · · Score: 3, Informative

      The logical reasoning behind this is that the government is taking away television by forbidding analog broadcasting. Therefore, to counter this, they will pay for it so people do not complain.

      Of course it's obvious that it's not them who pay but us, the people. However, since Congress is elected by us, anything they do is indirectly representative of our will. Therefore, it can be said that the majority of the population want their taxes to go towards this.

      It's called a democracy. If you don't like it, use your first amendment rights to speak up about it and organize people to either vote for politicians who would oppose this bill, or to use your constitutional right to run for office yourself. The only excuse you have for not having politicians who are on your side in office is that your side isn't as involved in the democratic process as your opposition. That, and they're rich, and you're not.

      --
      UNIX: A computer user is defined as a programmer. WINDOWS: A computer user is defined as a consumer.
    8. Re:Stupid. by Acts+of+Attrition · · Score: 2, Funny
      Where do I go for the nearest de-education center so I can join the mind-numbed consumer masses?

      Look no further, you're on Slashdot!
    9. Re:Stupid. by toddbu · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The government, in its infinite wisdom, has decided that free over the air analog signals should disappear, instantly making all of that equipment obsolete unless a digital converter box is installed.

      Actually, this has been coming for a very long time. What the government failed to do was mandate that all new equipment meet the new standards, so many people are still buying TV sets today that won't work tomorrow. It's insane that they're even proposing these changes without having equipment available to the consumer. How pissed do you think John Q. Public will be when he finds out his 1 year old TV set won't work any more? I like McCain, but he's being a total ass on this one. Actually, I think it's just Presidential posturing. After all, he can support the change "for safety's sake" knowing all too well that it will be shot down and he'll still look good.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    10. Re:Stupid. by medelliadegray · · Score: 4, Insightful

      auction spectrum = still your governments dollars.

      auctioned spectrum = BAD, unless its in lease form. I loathe that big businesses pay big bucks one time and profit forever off it. Govt should get a cut of profits generated by that spectrum forever.

      --
      Troll, Troll, go away and flame again some other day
    11. Re:Stupid. by Detritus · · Score: 3, Informative
      What the government failed to do was mandate that all new equipment meet the new standards, so many people are still buying TV sets today that won't work tomorrow. It's insane that they're even proposing these changes without having equipment available to the consumer.

      Wrong. See http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/ DOC-225221A1.pdf.

      Receivers with screen sizes 36 inches and above -- 50% of a responsible party's units must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2004; 100% of such units must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2005.

      Receivers with screen sizes 25 to 35 inches -- 50% of a responsible party's units must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2005; 100% of such units must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2006.

      Receivers with screen sizes 13 to 24 inches -- 100% of all such units must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2007.

      TV Interface Devices VCRs and DVD players/recorders, etc. that receive broadcast television signals -- 100% of all such units must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2007.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    12. Re:Stupid. by Seumas · · Score: 2, Informative

      NBC broadcast football in HDTV in 1998. That was SEVEN years ago. NFL broadcasting in HDTV on one of the big three networks is certainly not something hidden and secret that only a geek would know about.

      The government started discussing HDTV standards in 1999.

      DirecTV was doing HDTV in 2000.

      In about 2000, the plan was to go to HDTV by 2005. In 2003, it was mandated that it would be 2007. Pretty much all of the things I mention can be found on Slashdot in the archives, which means they were published and discussed elsewhere. In fact, I first learned about the plan for ditching analog in 2005 - in 2000... ON TELEVISION. Enough so that I was aware of it when I went to buy my new TV in 2000. And I'm not any sort of a videophile or anything. Just an average joe who has read a news paper or new. This isn't obscure stuff. You almost have to intentionally avoid news about HDTV in the last six years to not know it was coming.

    13. Re:Stupid. by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2, Informative
    14. Re:Stupid. by drooling-dog · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It's called a democracy. If you don't like it, use your first amendment rights to speak up about it

      That's exactly what everybody is doing here, and yet it seems to upset you.

      That, and they're rich, and you're not.

      That really is more to the point, isn't it?

  2. don't kid yourselves by frovingslosh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Don't kid yourselves that you will get anything. For every dollar of "subsidity" to get you to switch, the price of these set top converters and anything else subsidized will go up by at least a dollar, likely more! The only ones getting this money will be the Chinese and Japaneese making the things. You the tax payer get what you always get.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  3. Pirate TV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Since they are eliminating analog TV the analog TV transmitters are going to become available. Time to start my pirate TV station for all those analog TV's that will still be out there. I'll be broadcasting my entire DVD collection.

    1. Re:Pirate TV by vought · · Score: 4, Informative

      Obviously, you've never actually seen an HF television transmitter.

      They're quite large, and require copious amounts of electricity, which they turn into two things:

      1. A TV signal that will step all over newly-assigned public emergency frequencies.

      2. Heat, which you will ostensibly be paying "teh big bux" for.

      Perhaps you should revisit your intentions.

  4. Well by linux_warp · · Score: 4, Informative

    I know this won't be popular with our crowd, but really it isnt a bad decision. From the article: "The subsidy program would be paid for by money raised from the auction of the analog spectrum the broadcasters are vacating.". So basically, they are making an expected 3 billion for making old TVs not work, so it only seems fair to use the money they took to make old tvs not work to make them work.

    1. Re:Well by jcr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I know this won't be popular with our crowd, but really it isnt a bad decision.

      The source of the funds doesn't make this use of the funds any less ridiculous.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  5. won't happen by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have a hard time believing that they'll really end analog TV in 2008. There are too many people out there who (a) have low incomes, (b) like TV, and (c) vote. It's just that many of those same people don't know about this because they get their information from the TV news. This is supposedly going to happen smack dab in an election year, too.

  6. Comments Schmomments Lets get to the real issue by hobotron · · Score: 4, Funny


    Will any of this subsidy affect my $1.99 Lost episodes?

    --
    There is truth in humor.
  7. Campaign vehicle by JonathanR · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Considering that TV is the predominant campaign commmunications vehicle, it's not surprising that they'll throw money at it to make sure it will remain working properly after a digital transition.

  8. More of the story... by slykens · · Score: 5, Informative

    While I must say I really enjoy the editorialization in the summary (not), the submitter has no idea wtf he's talking about in regards to the financing of this project.

    The digital TV transition is intended to free up the 700-800 Mhz (appx) spectrum to be auctioned by the FCC for advanced services and for use by public safety organizations. McCain made a big deal of the digital transition after Katrina hit due to the problems with interagency communication.

    The $3 billion in subsidy comes from the auction of the spectrum. The people who will eventually pay for it are the users of the spectrum or customers of the companies who purchase the spectrum. Let me be clear, this $3 billion isn't coming from some other agency or program, it is coming from the proceeds of the auction.

    So, submitter, if you're going to flame bait about your pet project being cut back at least do it with half a clue.

    Things like HDTV and multicasting are nice side effects of the transition, but don't be fooled, this is mostly about money. Congress wants that money in its coffers and had planned for analog turn off at the end of this year when the transition first started ten years ago.

    1. Re:More of the story... by idlake · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The $3 billion in subsidy comes from the auction of the spectrum.

      It's still public money and it's still a subsidy and government handout to big corporations. I mean, what's the point of using a public resource to generate revenue when you hand the proceeds of the acution right back to the people who paid it?

      Let me be clear, this $3 billion isn't coming from some other agency or program, it is coming from the proceeds of the auction.

      Yes, and those $3 billion should go to funding NASA, not TV receivers.

  9. Bread and Circuses by RyanFenton · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A legitimate approach to governance is that you should give people what they want, and nothing else. From that perspective, this is cynical, but appropriate. Give people bread and circuses, and you can say you're doing your job as a politician... but how many politicians hold a valid claim to be doing their job as honorable human beings?

    It would be nice if I could just wash my hands of politics, insist that the least governance would be the best, and just vote for those who would leave power in the hands of individuals more and more, in light of the constant incompitence of politicans... but I've also seen the affects of what "small goverment" can do over the past years. I've decided to vote Democrat in the next forseeable elections, because at least they seem to propose to, and have in the past few administrations, use public resources to do more than just celebrate their own personal interests. Perhaps then, at least, the Republicans will learn to compete again in terms of function, not just rhetoric. I'd hate to see this last batch of Republicans rewarded for their actions.

    Ryan Fenton

  10. Digital TV = anal rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For those interested in a brief history of HDTV, here it is:

    Here's how it went:

    Broadcast Industry asks for bandwidth for HDTV
    FCC says "OK, we'll set aside bandwidth for HDTV"
    FCC says "What standards?"
    Industry says 'No Standards Please' and come up with EIGHTEEN recommended formats for HDTV. I am not shitting you.
    FCC says "Isn't 18 different standards a bit much?"
    Industry says "Shut the fuck up FCC, we know what we are doing. The 'market' will handle this!"
    Consumer Electronics dudes whine "18 formats make every thing cost more, you are fucking us!"
    FCC says "OK, it's your call on standards, 18 formats is fine, infact there are NO STANDARDS AT ALL, 'cause we are letting the 'market decide', but you start broadcasting HDTV now or we take back the FREE bandwidth."
    Industry says "What? We really just want the free bandwidth. You really want us to do HDTV??
    Congress says "Fuck you Industry. Broadcast HDTV or we'll legislate your asses back to Sun-day!"
    Industry says "We're fucked. 18 formats? Why the hell did we do that? Let's change it."
    Consumer Electronics dudes say "You ain't changing shit. We are already building the boxes you said you wanted built."
    FCC says "Yah, ya boneheads we told you 18 was too many, now you gotta live with it."
    Industry says "Well FCC, will you at least make the cable companies carry the HDTV at no charge?"
    Cable companies say "Fuck you! You gotta pay! Bwah-ha-ha-ha!"
    FCC says "Yep, no federal mandated on HDTV must carry, we are letting 'the market' handle that"
    Industry says "We are so fucked. We are spending 5-10 million per TV station in hardware alone and have 1000 HDTV viewers per city, even in LA!"
    Consumer at home says "Where is my HDTV? Why does it cost so much? Fuck it, I'm sticking with cable/DirecTV."

    Consumer electronics dudes, broadcast industry, FCC, and congress all cry. Cable companies laugh and make even bigger profits.

  11. Small-Government Republican Congress by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Iraq costs $6 BILLION each month.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  12. Just curious... by the_other_one · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What measures are in place to ensure the safe environmentally clean disposal of the tens of millions of soon to be useless analog TV's in your country?

    --
    134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
    1. Re:Just curious... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 4, Informative

      The old TVs won't be useless if you get a digital tuner, which is one thing being considered for those that can't buy one for themselves. The tuner can automatically scale the picture to the TV in question. Unless the TV was total garbage anyway, the picture will likely be better even on an NTSC TV because digital TV doesn't have snow, static or ghosting that mar analog NTSC broadcasts. I've had a digital tuner for a while, it's pretty darn nice looking even for "just" 480i output, it'll look just like a DVD does on the same set.

    2. Re:Just curious... by bergeron76 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's a Republican government right now, remember? They don't care about the environment.

      --
      Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
  13. Who are you kidding? by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Three billion dollars is only a drop in the bucket to what the campaign contributions will be. Despite anything that can be said about this program, its ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

    First, there is the money raised by auctioning RF spectrum licenses.
    Second, there is the fact that all will be digital at that time, and someone has to get distribution pork.
    Third, MS and others are already lining the politicians pockets to make everything come out on their side.

    We (the USA), as a nation (if not a larger audience), have failed miserably to trace where the money will be going. This 'subsidy' of HDTV set top tuners is nothing more than the low hanging fruit on a very large and prolific tree. Currently, the rule of the land is that when this happens, cable companies will not have to share thier pipe to your house with anyone else. This is supposed to foster more competative and wireless services. Fiber, cable, DSL, and broadcast mediums will have to work hard to keep up with new broadband all-IP services. EVERYONE will have to have a new set-top tuner box... This 3 billion is for the people in mobile homes in deepest darkest Arkansas and such places, who will not pay for a new HDTV set to get three local channels and PBS.

    What is at stake is a very big pie, and everyone wants one or more of the pieces: Digital movies on demand 24/7, digital music on demand 24/7, IP radio and television, mobile IPTV and radio, VoIP calling with both mobile and fixed, and the list literally goes on for hours.

    As soon as there is a huge ubiquitous (I dislike that word) IP network, we can begin offering services like your fridge that keeps the shopping list up to date, emails it to you at the grocery store on your PDA, or automatically enters it to the local grocer and a high school kid shows up with the groceries at your door at 5:15 p.m. That is just one scenario, and there are thousands more.

    The real issue is who will be selling you those services? If you have comcast cable, you can bet they will offer them, but so will your wireless carrier, and the WiMax network provider and the WiFi provider, and it will be worse than you can imagine for billing and value for services rendered. Can you imagine a refridgerator that is only compatible with Comcast? or worse, AOL?

    What is happening in the news currently is only the tip of the iceburg, and I'm talking about one much larger than sank the Titanic!

    I'm sorely hoping that F/OSS has a strong hand of guidance on how such services are offered and how they are compatible. All this DRM @!#$@$% is far more dangerous to your future health than you have yet thought of, because more than music and movies is involved. I am hoping that the F/OSS community has such things in the scope of where their development efforts are going. I know that MS and others already have this on their radar scopes.

    --

    Every so often in history, it appears that someone from the future has come back to tell us something. Did Linus return to fix the future?

  14. And what do /. editors do to keep you reading /.? by GoofyBoy · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the article;
    "The subsidy program would be paid for by money raised from the auction of the analog spectrum the broadcasters are vacating."

    "The sale of the analog spectrum is expected to raise at least $10 billion. Besides the $3 billion for converter boxes, the Senate bill proposes reserving $1 billion for public safety to buy new radio communications equipment and $250 million for a national alert system. Another $5 billion would be set aside for debt reduction."

    Now can we get back to our regular dose of Google/iPod stories?

    --
    The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
  15. Is television THAT important? by Aqua+OS+X · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm a broke SOB that's still using the same TV that I've had for 15 years. It's missing the power button, the remote's battery door is held on with electrical tape, and I doubt I will replace it any time soon. Why? Because I have more important things to spend my measly pittance on. Particularly, food, power, transportation, etc. Ya know, things which relate to not dying.

    I'm glad the government is concerned that I won't get my daily fix of White House talking points, commercials for boner pills, and HiDef Every Body Love Raymond reruns. Yet, there are other concerns in my life that could probably benefit from 3 billion dollars. In particular - the local trailer park, I mean high school, could use a little love. Four permanent walls and some sort of roof-ish thing would be nice.

    Or, at the very least, I hear we suffered a wee bit of storm damage in the gulf coast, and there's also that whole "war" thing.

    But, who knows. Ray Romano in HD. Perhaps the digital signal will allow me to understand why that show is funny.

    --
    "Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
  16. Re:Don't you understand? by Bastian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is necessary to hold the country together. Imagine the economic turmoil that would result if millions upon millions of people were to decide that $50 is too much to pay to continue watching TV and dump their boxes instead? All those souls, no longer absorbing advertisements? The reduction in impulse buying could throw us into another depression!

  17. What? No broadcast flag? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Were the MPAA asleep at the wheel? Or just too coked up to notice that the perfect bill to tag a broadcast flag rider on just slipped past them? I mean, if congress is handing out subsidies, doesn't the MPAA deserve one too?

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  18. Re:I for one welcome our new DRM overlords. by Jessta · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ummm...you do realise that the radio is not a free service.
    Radio is paid for through advestising.
    If a company wishes to charge you for using their service then they have the right to.

    --
    ...and that is all I have to say about that.
    http://jessta.id.au
  19. Get rid of your television! by Agent+Green · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm already waaaay ahead of you, my friend. My idea is better...I got rid of my television outright.

    Last year, I sold my NTSC television (36" Sony Trinitron) on eBay for $200 with pedestal. I figure I was out about $1000 over the 6 years I owned it.

    Guess what I did next?

    Wrong. I didn't replace it. My wife and I have no television. No ads. None of the soundbytes. No cable bill. No TiVo bill. No MythTV Mayhem. No equipment to keep thinking about upgrading. No worries about the broadcast flag. Nobody trying to push my buttons over the screen.

    All that and more free space in my living room for the couch.

    The funny thing is...we don't really miss TV and that gives us time to pursue other things. We'll catch a glimse of a show or a movie on the tube if we're out with friends or whatnot, but that's about it. Even then, most of the time we just turn the thing off.

    We have survived our first year without a television in the house (as of 10/10!) and our lives have become much more enriched as a result.

    --
    // Agent Green (Ian / IU7 / KB1JQO)
    // IEEE 802.3: All 10base Are Belong To Us
    1. Re:Get rid of your television! by TheSloth2001ca · · Score: 4, Insightful

      and if u must watch a show, remember that bit torrent is your friend

      --
      Just another crappy blog
  20. Naive a little? by danielsfca2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Welcome to America. You must be new here. EVERYTHING Congress (and the executive branch, as well) does is done as favors to big business. That's what pays for their campaigns and they don't forget it.

    (Coming soon, the judicial branch too! Hooray cronyism!)

    Yes, in case it's not obvious, I'm with the O.P. on this one.

    1. Re:Naive a little? by killjoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know what amazes me? Everybody in the US knows that but still they don't care. They don't even care enough to goddamn vote once every four fucking years.

      What a bunch of useless retards we all turned out to be huh?

      --
      evil is as evil does
    2. Re:Naive a little? by Decker-Mage · · Score: 5, Insightful
      EVERYTHING Congress (and the executive branch, as well) does is done as favors to big business. I must respectively disagree as your reply isn't inclusive enough. I would rather say that everything Congress and the Executive branch does is in favor of whomever gives them the most benefits be it in the form of donations for their campaigns, free/subsidized trips or other goods and services, and similar items. The source can be big business, labor unions (e.g. AFL/CIO, AFSCME), professional organizations (e.g. trial lawyers association), and even individuals (e.g. George Soros). We have the best politicians money can buy.

      On the plus side I will say that the level of transparency of corruption is much higher than I've encountered elsewhere in the world and you, usually, don't get killed for investigating who bought which politician, which I've seen before.

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
    3. Re:Naive a little? by jrockway · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wish fewer people would vote. Imagine what this country would be like if only people who understood the ramifications of their actions voted. I can guarantee that any person with a brain that watched the presidential debates would not have voted for Bush, but he still won. Why? Because people are too fucking stupid to vote.

      --
      My other car is first.
    4. Re:Naive a little? by TeraCo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're looking at things from the wrong angle. Mandatory voting would have seen him hit the road too. There are too many people who DO understand the implications of certain government decisions who just don't care or don't think their vote will make a difference.

      --
      Not Meta-modding due to apathy.
    5. Re:Naive a little? by KDR_11k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What amazes me even more are all those people who insist on their right to bear arms to defend themselves from tyranny but never even kill a single corrupt politician with them.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    6. Re:Naive a little? by killjoe · · Score: 2, Informative

      The politicians know how to push their buttons. Kill your congressman? If you the fags will get married and your wife will leave you. The A-rabs will nuke you. PETA will force you to become a vegeterian. They will take your guns away and ban footbal. Liberals hate america don't cha know, you don't want the UN running your life do you?

      --
      evil is as evil does
    7. Re:Naive a little? by maxpublic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They don't even care enough to goddamn vote once every four fucking years.

      And a fat lot of good that does. Since third parties are so pitifully marginalized there isn't a hope in hell of one of their candidates ever getting elected to major office, I get a choice between Sleezeball A or Sleezeball B. You only have to take a look at Kerry and Bush to see the truth of this. It always boils down to whatever candidate is *slightly* less evil than the other.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    8. Re:Naive a little? by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 5, Insightful
      but to claim Bush and Kerry had "no appreciable difference" is pure ignorance.

      Humor us. What are the appreciable differences?

      They were both strongly in favor of invading Iraq. And staying in Iraq. Are you suggesting that Kerry would have done the responsible thing and try to institute the Draft? Would that reknown leader of men convince the Congress to vote for such a measure? If so, why couldn't Kerry ever sponsor and pass a piece of significant legislation?

      Are their border control policies different? Would Kerry beef up the border security, increase deportations, institute guest worker visas, and increase convictions of business owners that hire illegal immegrants?

      Has Kerry helped push any legislation would show he understands the onerous cost of the federal gov't?

      Face it. The boys at the top picked someone who wasn't going to upset the apple cart. And until THOSE losers are booted out of power, no matter what loser the Republicans put up, the Democrats will put up another loser.

      And finally, we live in a country of dumbasses who vote, and dumbasses who don't vote. Until you can fix them, they'll be voting for "a Bush" every time.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    9. Re:Naive a little? by ink · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I can guarantee that any person with a brain that watched the presidential debates would not have voted for Bush, but he still won.

      You must have watched different debates than I did. I came away hating both candidates. Bush is a simple manager that leans heavily on his "experts", and can't think on the fly to save his life; Kerry is a carreer politician who will say anything to anyone to get elected. We need to take the caucus/primary power away from those notheastern small states. Dean could have solidly beat Bush, if he hadn't "scared" those poor farmers with his scream.

      I voted for Kerry, but it was the most distateful vote I have ever cast.

      It wasn't an obvious call by any means, and I'm not surprised that people were conflicted. Trying to pick between Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum isn't fun.

      --
      The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
    10. Re:Naive a little? by phlegmofdiscontent · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't forget Nader. I dislike the guy on many levels, but he still should have been allowed to debate.

    11. Re:Naive a little? by PuppiesOnAcid · · Score: 5, Funny

      How does this get modded up? Does it occur to you that some people in America are smart, watched the debates, and chose to support Bush? I, for one, have a brain, watched the debates, and voted for Bush because I thought he would make a good president.

    12. Re:Naive a little? by dougmc · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Bush is a simple manager that leans heavily on his "experts", and can't think on the fly to save his life
      Not that I like Bush (quite the opposite, actually), but this isn't automatically a bad thing. As long as he picks the appropriate experts and actually listens to their advice, one can be a very effective leader with this sort of setup, president or manager in some company.

      And Bush isn't dumb. People like to say he is, but he's really not. But seriously, nobody has enough time to learn everything and keep up to date on it, and it's good that Bush knows how to delegate and rely on his advisors. (Though he's made some awful decisions. I don't know if it's due to bad advice or bad decisions based on that advice.)

      Kerry is a carreer politician who will say anything to anyone to get elected.
      Of course, that statement applies to almost everybody who ever gets to the point where the have a chance at being elected president.

      Not that any of this is really relevant to Congress's $3B subsidy.

    13. Re:Naive a little? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Funny
      How did this get voted funny?

      Same here. I'm smart, pretty well informed, watched the debates, and voted for Bush.

      You know, it's possible for someone to see the same facts as you and interpret them differently. That doesn't imply stupidity on either part, just different perspectives.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    14. Re:Naive a little? by raju1kabir · · Score: 2, Funny
      I'm smart, pretty well informed, watched the debates, and voted for Bush.

      This is why we don't let people score their own IQ tests.

      --
      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
    15. Re:Naive a little? by vsprintf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As long as he picks the appropriate experts and actually listens to their advice, one can be a very effective leader with this sort of setup, president or manager in some company.

      The problem is that he did pick an appropriate expert, Colin Powell, then cut him out of the loop and ignored his good advice when it didn't fit with his (Bush's) preconceptions. Now, he has only neocons for advisors - not appropriate for the "uniter" he claims to be.

  21. Re:Don't you understand? by Spacejock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, they might even rush out and buy a ton of books. Or hold conversations with their family members around the dinner table.
    Sign me up, I'm converted.

  22. speaking of 12 step programs... by Quadraginta · · Score: 4, Funny

    Amen, brother. When I went to college in 1980 I couldn't afford a TV of my own (I recall them being expensive, $300 in 1980 dollars, and besides since I left a girl back home I had to save all my dough to spend on phone bills). So I just stopped watching it. Haven't since. Not a "statement" or moral choice -- just never found enough time or desire, I suppose.

    So that'll be 25 years without watching the tube come September. Only problem is the odd looks when I completely miss TV-culture references. Like Mr. or Dr. Steinfeld and some show about friends ("Friends"?). Means nothing to me. Nor have I seen any "Star Trek" shows since the original, although I do understand that there are about eleventy-two subvarieties of it now, with talking robots and stuff.

    I've considered explaining I've just returned from twenty years in the Australian outback, but I can't do the accent.

    1. Re:speaking of 12 step programs... by patio11 · · Score: 2, Funny
      I've considered explaining I've just returned from twenty years in the Australian outback, but I can't do the accent.

      Just say "Sorry mate, I'd love to show you my Australian accent but I only saw two people in my twenty years there, and one of them was mute after that unfortunate incident with the wildlife. Care for a biscuit?"

  23. grossly inaccurate by adrianmonk · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article summary says:

    The old analog television spectrum will be auctioned off to the highest bidder.

    This is simply not the case. If you read the FCC's FAQ on the subject of digital television (which is what this is about, incidentally -- the FCC is mandating digital, but not high-def, which is only part of digital), you will see this:

    Under the FCC spectrum plan, we have provided most existing broadcasters with access to a 6 MHz channel for digital broadcasting within a core digital TV spectrum, i.e., TV channels 2 to 51.

    This means that the new digital channels are being assigned to 6 MHz channels within the existing analog TV spectrum. In other words, they are just shuffling things around within the same spectrum. Analog TV is 6 MHz for one channel, and so is digital. (Digital can have subchannels, but that is part of the protocol, not something the FCC worries about after they've assigned the 6 MHz bandwidth to a TV station.)

    So, are they actually taking away any of the analog spectrum? Yes, they are taking part of it away -- a very small part. They are taking away channels 52-69. The FCC's FAQ says this:

    during the transition some broadcasters would be provided DTV channels outside of this core spectrum (channels 52 to 69). These broadcasters would have to move their DTV operations to a channel in the core spectrum when one became available.

    Translation: they are going to try to eventually move every channel which is in the 52-69 range down into the 2-51 range. They are leaving 2-51 available for television, and they are trying to reclaim 52-69.

    So, is this a good thing? Well, how many TV stations do you know of that are in the 52-69 range right now? There are very few. It's a part of the spectrum that isn't used for TV much right now as it is anyway. So in a way, the FCC is basically taking this opportunity to clean out this little-used part of the spectrum.

    If you want to go into a little more detail, check out this Adobe PDF spectrum chart. Look at the 300MHz-3GHz line, and look at the "TV BROADCASTING" section after the one that denotes channels 21-36. You'll see that it goes from 614Mhz to 698MHz, and since all TV channels are 6 MHz bandwidth, that means 84/6 = 14 channels. This means it goes with channels 37-50 (the next 14 channels after 21-36). And then look after that on the chart. You'll see that 698MHz through 806MHz is allocated for "BROADCAST" but also for "FIXED" and "MOBILE" purposes. So apparently it's not 100% dedicated to television right now. So the FCC is right to say that range (channels 50 and higher) is not part of the "core" spectrum.

    Anyway, even if you don't agree that we should give up the part of 52-69 that is allocated to television (because apparently not all of it is), it's still important to note that the FCC is not auctioning off ALL of the analog TV spectrum. Actually, there are 68 channels total, and it would seem they are only auctioning off 18 of them, and part of those 18 channels aren't even allocated to TV in certain areas right now, so it's less than 18 channels. So, at worst, they are auctioning off 18/68 = 26.5% of the analog TV spectrum, and they are leaving exactly 50 broadcast television channels available.

  24. Re:Don't you understand? by Superfarstucker · · Score: 2, Funny

    In other news, statistics are up 360%.

  25. maybe TV will just die by Quadraginta · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Maybe the important question is: what will the 'net look like in 2009? What if downloading movies from the 'net goes legit? What if the production studios start shipping TV episodes out over the 'net? By four years from now people might be more likely to install a big LCD screen, a fast computer with a giant disk drive, and a broadband connection in their living room than a digital TV. I mean, there are already broad swathes of suburbia at least where I live (Southern California) where TV radio signals go for miles without being intercepted by so much as a single antenna, 'cause it all comes in by coax already.

    Frankly, if you think about it, the idea of getting signals from one fixed location (the studio) to another (your home) over the air seems silly. That's a job for a wire. Save the airwaves for situations, like mobile communications, where you can't be dragging a wire around.

  26. business opportunity missed! by Quadraginta · · Score: 2, Funny

    Christ, and no one has sold the broadcast rights to it yet? What kind of screw-ups are running this war? Have they even lined up sponsors? Auctioned off the stuffed toy and Happy Meal(TM) tie-in rights? I'm so depressed.

  27. Re:Don't you understand? by NanoGator · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Yeah, they might even rush out and buy a ton of books. Or hold conversations with their family members around the dinner table. Sign me up, I'm converted."

    I hear ya, man. I'd love it if I could make everybody conform to my standard of living.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  28. Just flip to any channel by The+Angry+Artist · · Score: 2, Funny

    Considering what's on TV, paying me $3 billion dollars isn't enough to get me to watch more televesion.

    --
    If you're reading this, stop it.
  29. Re:Disgusting by sp00nz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You have a choice. Vote. Or run yourself and quit bitching.

  30. Re:Don't you understand? by jrockway · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think he was being sarcastic.

    But who you should really be criticizing is the government! Their lifestyle is to be paid off by media companies to make sure you see ads and continue to SHOP SHOP SHOP. So they're making sure that you have a boob tube to deliver ads right to your house. The media companies win, and then the politicians get more bribes.

    All for forcing their lifestyle on you.

    (If they want that so badly, why can't they finance this out of their "contribution" fund? I want my taxes to do something good, not make people dumber. I don't even own a TV to begin with...)

    --
    My other car is first.
  31. ob. Simpson quote by whathappenedtomonday · · Score: 2, Funny
    Announcer: Please stand by while we are having technical difficulties. Do not attempt to read a book or talk to loved ones. Please do not attempt sexual intercourse with loved ones either as years of T.V. radiation have left your genitals shriveld and useless.

    Chief Wiggum lifts covers of the bed and peers under

    Wiggum: Well I'll be damned!

    --
    I hope I didn't brain my damage.
  32. 2009? by pe1chl · · Score: 2, Informative

    Analog TV will be phased out in 2006 here in the Netherlands...

    Politicians make such decisions here with only a couple of months leadtime.
    Some statistics showed that only about 70.000 families are still watching the analog TV network, it costs some 15 million euro per year to keep it running, government needs 15 million euro for some other purpose, so the network will be switched off next year.

    (it is still unclear if this will happen all at once on Jan 1st, and if there will be subsidies to buy digital receiving equipment)

  33. Bye-bye 'free trade', hello 'forced trade' by 7Prime · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I got something to say:

    This is some scary shit. Republicans always hid behind the "small government and uninhibitted trade" arguement, but for at least the past 20 years, it's been total bullshit. Now, we've found a way to do something that's effectively the opposite of communism: tax the people in order to pay the businesses. Yea, $3 billion from the government to the people! That money doesn't come out of thin air, the comes out of our taxes. So this redistribution is in such a way that will guarentee that people continue to buy televisions. So, in the ecconomic scheme, where does all that money end up? In the hands of big businesses like Phillips, Sony, Magnavox, etc. [Public -> Government -> Public (specifically to buy item) -> Phillips/Sony/Magnavox]; or to put it in short form: [Public -> Phillips/Sony/Magnavox] through government redistrobution. IE: money taken from lower, middle, and upper classes, and given to the upper classes, most of which will NOT trickle down. Any fool can see that the effect of this is a widening of the income gap and nothing else. The current income gap is the worst it's ever been in US history. We have a deficit that MY grandchildren (I'm 24) will still have even if we were to start paying it off now. BTW: most TV manufacturers are located in Japan, and probably very soon, China. Great, so lets just create more reasons to send all of our money out of our ecconomy, WOO HOO!

    I remember hearing in a world history class about a state that started throwing money at people for luxuries like theatrical events, public executions, and other feel-good services, in order to take the common folks' attention away from the people who were dieing in the streets. Oh yeah, that was the Roman Empire just before its total collapse. The similarity is uncanny: Katrina destroys New Orlands, leaving a thousand dead, and hundreds of thousands homeless; public opinion of the government falls; government throws luxury items at the people to keep them quiet, fat and happy so they wont notice that their neighbors down at the local shelter are starving, and their children are coming home in body bags. This is truly history repeating itself.

    Bush made this big speech about how we were going to do "what it takes" to stabilize the victims of Katrina. The question was asked, "where do we get that money from?" Since then we've increased military spending, cut funding to programs benefiting the very poor we're trying to help, expect to lower taxes, and have been unable to come up with any way of doing "what it takes", and now they want to put $3 billion into increasing TV reception! Ted Stevens, my [Alaska's] great senator who is the spokesman for this television bill, is the same guy who just yesterday, in a dramatic, teary-eyed sherade, threatened to quit if congress removed funding for two worthless multi-billion dollar bridges in the transportation bill. I'll tell ya, I live in Alaska, those bridges are a JOKE: one connects a 150 person village to an air strip (noble cause, sure, but the village itself didn't even ask for it or even care!), the other bridge lessons the commute time from Anchorage to an UNINHABITED region across the bay--guess whose friends own all the property in that area, expecting future developement? Go to hell, Ted Stevens!

    Meanwhile, Don Young, our lone house representative, when explained that a majority of Alaskans were in favor of giving the bridges back, exclaimed, "They [Alaskans] can all kiss my ear!". This guy's been in for 20+ years, nothing will bring him down. If Young asks his voters to suck his cock, they all just get on their knees; I hate my state.

    Sorry this got off topic, I'm just incredibly jaded by this and all the events that have lead up to this.

    --
    Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
  34. Re:Auction TV Channels? No New Stations? by cybercyph · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Without delving too deeply into the technology of it all, an analog TV transmission takes up a massive width of spectrum--a digitally compressed television signal takes up a comparatively miniscule width, leaving all the left over space between channels free for the government to auction. Addressing the original topic--the air waves are owned by all of us, collectively. If our government wants to sell some of the spectrum previously allotted for our use, It makes sense to me that some of the profits would come back to us. Of course their motives are purely selfish, but the result is fine by me.

  35. Digital != HDTV by dunc78 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You do know that HDTV is just a subset of Digital TV right? Shows can still be broadcast digitally in standard definition while saving a signficant amout of bandwidth over the analog broadcasting of the same shows.

  36. I know why the government wants to pay by beforewisdom · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't believe that the government should subsidize the switch over to digital TV. I also don't believe that consumers should pay.

    I think the quickest way to create a revolution in America is to cut people off from television and alchohol. Given that, I can see why the government is willing to pay to make sure nobody "leaves the matrix" in the process of converting over to digital television. They do not want people to be free from their opiates, their distractions. If they get free from them they might have time to think and then to get upset over what a crappy job the government is doing.

    I think advertisers should pay for the switch to digital tv. Our economy is driven by consumerism and consumerism is inspired, mostly, by television commericals with coporations being the beneficiaries. If someone can't afford a digital TV setup than they can't see corporate America's propaganda and they will buy fewer things they do not need. Coproate America loses money.

    Corporate American pays for television shows to be created so people will see their commercials and buy their products.

    Why should the consumer either through their tax dollars or their net income pay to have someone else's advertisements to be beemed into their heads?

    Let the people who make the profits pay the costs

  37. Re:Don't you understand? by Kaenneth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The conversation around the dinner table thing only works until you find out that your son is gay, your daughter a democrat, and your wife cares about black people.

    When TV gets turns off, expect a jump in the domestic violence rate.

  38. Digital TV Sucks Ass - The Emperor Has No Clothes by gadlaw · · Score: 2, Informative

    You know, I remember the day when I could get a clear picture from my tv. No snow, good sound and no worries. Now it's nearly impossible to watch it because of the jagged cubist style picture quality, the picture freezes as the digital signal buffers or whatever the hell it does, the sound doing the same thing. It is impossible to watch and enjoy a concert on TV now with the annoying sound dropping out but since it's digital it drops out clean! Wow, thank you so very much for that. The picture and sound quality sucks big time especially on those channels pronouncing how modern and up to date they are with their digital signals - good commercials for a crappy product. Oh, and if there is something on tv that I even enjoy a little bit I have to wait for the DVD to come out to actually enjoy it. The bottom third of the screen has the pop up advertisements for the next show, the shows coming in the next month or year and the damn ads move and explode and are just as annoying as hell. Yes indeed, I wish the government would have just stayed with the original date for the 'switch over' so the authors of this crap would be closer to the blowback and outrage that will surely come to them.

    --
    Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
  39. Re: which begs the obvious question... by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why do you blow $50+/month on cable?

    While one certainly is stuck with the dollar value/channel, there must be some nugget of a program that is justifying your $50+/month expenditure.

    I don't pay $50+/month for shit. You are the biggest loser.

    --
    There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
  40. Re:Don't you understand? by hackstraw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, they might even rush out and buy a ton of books. Or hold conversations with their family members around the dinner table.

    Books and conversations produce independent thought. I think the politicians know exactly what they are doing -- maintaining status quo. People in their alpha wave zone in front of the TV being shown things like the play by play on the "war on terror", or the next plague of the week that kills 800 people in China or a couple of birds, and of course the required car advertisement that is aired at every commercial break between 6 and 11 PM.

    If it were me, I would be willing to pay much more than $3 billion of somebody else's money to keep them quiet.

  41. Re:Don't you understand? by Bastian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If they want that so badly, why can't they finance this out of their "contribution" fund?

    Because corporations will externalize any cost they can. The bill for getting lobbyists to convince Congress to approve a $3,000,000,000 TV subsidy out of the government's (read: the American people's) pockets probably comes out to a lot less than $3,000,000,000.

  42. Re:The US is F*cked by Com2Kid · · Score: 2

    You all should feel lucky, it's not every generation that gets to witness the crash of a major empire.


    Umm, actually, it pretty much is. Major empires fall rather reguarly.

    Just within the 20th century, we had the English, Germans, and the Soviets, so pretty much every generation got to see a major empire fall. Albiet the English fall was rather anti-climatic.
  43. Many differences by jfengel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The most basic difference for most Kerry voters, I think, was not what would be done but what had been done. It's actually not unreasonable for Kerry to have chosen to stay in Iraq; it's a mess that the US made and which arguable we should try to clean up after ourselves. If we didn't, future deaths resulting from a civil war in Iraq would be blamed on us (not to mention a potential new safe haven for al Qaeda).

    But the difference is that Bush HAD gone into a war, under what many prospective Kerry voters considered false pretenses, and for that he deserved to lose his office, even if his policies for the future were exactly identical to Kerry's.

    For example, Kerry might have been able to get foreign assistance in Iraq, not because his policies were better than Bush's, but because for many countries the answer would be an automatic "No" to Bush. They'd say Bush had brought it on himself, whereas Kerry would be trying to fix a situation he inherited. That's not a guarantee, but there was no hope of any world support under Bush.

    Actually, that's not even the most basic difference. The most basic difference is in the Supreme Court. It was obvious that Bush would appoint at least one new Supreme Court justice, and that he would almost certainly chose an anti-Roe nominee, whereas Kerry would almost certainly chose a pro-Roe nominee. The way it turned out was somewhat more complicated, but at the time both sets of voters may have had abortion (and other things that the Supreme Court weighs in on) at the front of their minds.

    There were numerous other policy differences: privatization of social security, concerns over Bush's pro-business style (in particular, the energy policy for which many Democrats feel Bush should be punished), environmental policies.

    I'm not trying to debate what should be done in Iraq, or to favor one candidate or the other. I'm just saying that the presence of similarities between the two doesn't mean that there weren't also differences.

    But one last bone I'll pick: not all senators are there to sponsor legislation. An awful lot of work goes on in Congress that doesn't get names on bills. The details of the bills are where serious work gets done, not in the overall thrust. A President is as much a negotiator as a policymaker, and being good at those back-room skills getting bills actually passed is at least as important as initiating legislation. John McCain, for example, is more respected for his ability to make the resulting legislation reasonable than for the bills that he himself has sponsored.

    Again, I'm not using this to comment on the election itself or take a stand on who you should have voted for. I'm just saying that if you're not seeing any differences, and you're not seeing Kerry's accomplishments, then you need to look more closely.

  44. You make yourself sound stupid by geekee · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "I wish fewer people would vote. Imagine what this country would be like if only people who understood the ramifications of their actions voted. I can guarantee that any person with a brain that watched the presidential debates would not have voted for Bush, but he still won. Why? Because people are too fucking stupid to vote."

    Those people who voted for Bush knew exactly what they were voting for. Calling them stupid makes you appear stupid for not understanding that these people actually agree with Bush's agenda.

    --
    Vote for Pedro