Firefox 1.5 RC1 Released

jgaynor writes "The Firefox team took another step towards version 1.5 this morning as it made public release candidate 1 of it's popular browser. Users running 1.5 beta should have already received notice via an automated update dialogue box. New features include improved Pop-up blocking, enhanced automated update, better OS X support and faster back and forward page navigation buttons. A full list of features can be found in the release notes as well as the downloaded page." My copy is 24 seconds away from downloaded ;)

Comments

1.5 Beta 2?

[aussie_a]

I got the Beta 2. Can I upgrade via it's upgrade function? If so, how? I see a button for "Upgrade History" but none for "Check Now".

Re:1.5 Beta 2?

[iLogiK]

Help > Check for updates

Re:1.5 Beta 2?

[CortoMaltese]

enhanced automated update

Yeah, right. For me, it keeps downloading and installing the 1.5 beta 2 over and over!

Re:1.5 Beta 2?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can't find a newer version of the extension use this extension to enable it.

http://users.blueprintit.co.uk/~dave/web/firefox/b uildid/nightly.html

~Freyr

Re:1.5 Beta 2?

[bcat24]

AFAIK, updating has usually been under the help menu. For instance, take a look at iTunes and Adobe.

Re:1.5 Beta 2?

[lohphat]

Oh, you men that running the update from 1.5b2 caused:

1. A ~600K update patch to be downloaded.
2. Then upon restart caused a 6MB download to update to 1.5rc1

then it looped back to step 1.

I cancelled and downloaded the 5MB installer.

I guess auto-update, can't.

If you're gonna download it

[Stevyn]

Help them out and file bug reports since it's a release candidate. If everyone just downloaded and said nothing bad about it since it's firefox, the final version may still have some nasty bugs in it.

Re:If you're gonna download it

[LiquidCoooled]

Theres an annoying bug that prevents the status bar from displaying the link I'm hovering over.
I already have the tickbox for "Change status bar text" unticked - ie javascript should not change the status bar.

If the site includes onmouseover type events (even with simple return false code) then it cancels the javascript display but the URL never displays.

Its damn annoying.

and no, installing greasemonkey and using the noblindlink type scripts don't work now because nothing can touch the document.on* events (due to the new handling of the DOM within FF (They can however remove the on* events from the A elements, so is a partial fix)

Its been in bugzilla since 2000, what chance I can have it fixed before this release?

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40838

(not as a direct link...)

Java plugin

[geophile]

I hope the new release makes it easier to get the java plugin working in RH9 or FC[34]. I've tried a number of different documented procedures with 1.0.6 and have never been able to get it working.

Re:Java plugin

[Phantom042]

If you just follow the instructions under:
http://plugindoc.mozdev.org/linux.html#Java
You won't have any trouble.
The command I ran was:

ln -s /usr/java/jre1.5.0_05/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugi n_oji.so \ <br/>
/usr/lib/firefox-1.0.7/plugins/libjavaplugi n_oji.so

Just correct the version numbers and that should work.

But does it run

[zegebbers]

on emacs?

Kudos To The Firefox Team

[sysrpl]

Kudos to the Firefox team. My web browser notified me of this update and it was automatically applied without a hitch.

ctrl+tab on Mac OS X

[1110110001]

With bug 275519 "[Mac] Support Command+Option+Arrows for tab switching (like Camino)" they decided to drop support for ctrl+tab under Mac OS X. As it's now a RC let me give you a how-to to reenable ctrl+tab. I hope it's easier in the final release (copied from my comment in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27551 9).

1) Quit Firefox
2) Go to Firefox.app, Choose Show Package Contents (my Finder show the german
text so I can only guess what's the wording in english) and go to
Contents/MacOS/chrome/
3) Backup toolkit.jar and rename it to toolkit.zip
4) unpack toolkit.zip and go to content/global/bindings/
5) open tabbrowser.xml
6) Replace (in line 1977 in my file)
          this.mTabBox.handleCtrlTab = !/Mac/.test(navigator.platform);
      with
          this.mTabBox.handleCtrlTab = true;
7) Create an archive of the content folder
8) Rename it to toolkit.jar
9) You can now use ctrl+tab again

b4n

Re:ctrl+tab on Mac OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

On my powerbook I switch tabs to the right or left by using the key combinations:

fn + ctrl + page down

and

fn + ctrl + page up

On a powerbok, the 'fn' and 'ctrl' keys are on the bottom left of the keyboard, the 'page down' key is on the bottom right and is also the 'down arrow' key.

I think that's what I used in Firefox on Linux as well to switch tabs, minus the fn key. I noticed it when I got used to switching tabs in Gnome's tabbed terminal application and accidentally used it in Firefox.

I don't know if it works in RC1, but it does up to Beta2.

IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[CDPatten]

IE 7 (beta) still has some pretty sweet features that this version of Firefox doesn't. One of the coolest is the feature that lets you quickly see an image of all open tabs. For the common end user, another is the phishing filter, which is pretty good.

I wish Firefox added more cutting edge stuff. MS will win the war if this is what is going to compete against IE 7.

Maybe in the final release we will see some better features added.

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[ScootyPuffJr]

You make some good points, but let's not think Microsoft innovated here! That would be news.

Omniweb is one of those innovators -- you can see the image of the tabs there, as is Shiira (tab exposé)

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[Anonymous Coward]

They're working on the unglamorous speed improvements and stability for the most part. They're reworking the rendering engine to speed up drawing of pages and reducing memory usage and fixing incorrect handling of CSS and HTML. I think that's more important then a new whiz bang feature.

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[Stevyn]

I prefer to use my short term memory to remember what the pages roughly look like since my memory is free and I don't have to upgrade it. And a phishing filter is only good for the user if it blocks every phishing scheme that will ever be created. Otherwise, they'll let their guard down over time and then get bit in the ass. A better solution may be to make the user that they are aware they're on a secure server and that the server address better match with the address in the address bar. That would be a good feature for firefox to...wait...

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[n0-0p]

The tab thing sounds interesting, so I'll give it a try and see what I think. I wouldn't use the IE anti-phishing system because it sends every URL to MS' servers for validation. I don't consider myself paranoid, but I'm not comfortable with handing over my entire browsing history to a third party.

In terms of cutting edge stuff I'd really like to see IE support SVG, XForms, more complete CSS, and other Web 2.0 features. I guess we just have different views and priorities on that one.

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[Anonymous Coward]

IE 7 has still pretty cool features, like adressbar spoofing, statusbar spoofing, domain spoofing, titlebar spoofing, SSL spoofing, keystroke sniffing, clipboard sniffing, Cross-Site-Scripting and, of course, remote code execution. No phishing filter will help you with that. In consequence, IE can only be safely used on a trusted intranet.

In contrary, Firefox can be used on the internet - which I consider as a standard feature that IE clearly lacks of.

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[Scoria]

IE 7 (beta) still has some pretty sweet features that this version of Firefox doesn't. One of the coolest is the feature that lets you quickly see an image of all open tabs.

Firefox is ultimately a lightweight browser that can be easily expanded to suit an end-user's individual preferences. There are freely available extensions that will convert Firefox into the most feature-rich browser imaginable.

For the common end user, another is the phishing filter, which is pretty good.

It's funny that you would mention it. The current development builds of Mozilla Thunderbird actually have a "scam detection" filter, even though I feel that such technology does often add a false sense of security to the equation. Maybe it will be shared with an upcoming Firefox build.

I wish Firefox added more cutting edge stuff.

This subject has been beaten to death here at Slashdot, but I'm afraid that the Trident rendering engine is still many miles behind the competition. Gecko is definitely cutting edge by comparison, even though I understand that the Microsoft team is striving to improve their engine.

MS will win the war if this is what is going to compete against IE 7.

If there is indeed a browser war happening, Microsoft certainly has the advantage. For most people, after all, the preinstalled Internet Explorer is synonymous with "the Internet." However, I don't believe that Firefox 1.5 will be up against Internet Explorer 7.0. Instead, it's likely that Firefox 2.0 ("The Ocho") will be released alongside Vista, and that they will directly compete for the market.

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[DarkEdgeX]

IE7 won't be released until Windows Vista is released (late next year). Firefox 1.5 is coming out this year, and Firefox 2.0 is supposed to come out sometime next year (followed by a 3.0 even I think [???]). I know Ben Goodger has posted and/or linked to roadmaps in the past.. ahha, here it is--

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/roadmap.ht ml

So yeah, I think the Firefox crew has some time to add in these new IE7 features (at least the ones that make sense) without having to worry too much.

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[Youssef Adnan]

You can get the tab preview feature in Firefox through the following extension: (compatible with FFox 1.5RC1)
http://ted.mielczarek.org/code/mozilla/tabpreview/ index.html

As for phishing, check out these extensions:
https://addons.mozilla.org/quicksearch.php?q=phish &section=A

IE has not innovated in a very long time while other have been trying hard to innovate to just get through the market leader-ship barrier that IE has put. It's going to be very challenging for the IE team to introduce any feature that would be outside the "catch-up" with other browser features. I'm glad to see that IE is going to introduce nifty features from all over the place, nonetheless.

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[FireFury03]

I wish Firefox added more cutting edge stuff. MS will win the war if this is what is going to compete against IE 7.

Will IE7 feature Clippy too? "It looks like you're downloading a virus, would you like help installing it?" :)

Being serious, IE7 is still not standards complient and still doesn't support XHTML.

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[Lomby]

Firefox 1.5 has one of the coolest features you can imagine: SVG.

Everything is well integrated with XUL/Javascript.

This opens the door to many applications that were not possible before without resorting to Java/Flash/ActiveX/...

Think of a Gantt chart editor in your browser.
Think of a graphical editor in your browser.
Think of a CAD in your browser.

SVG has the potential to move the kind of operations you can perform in a browser to the next level.

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[CDPatten]

My post wasn't meant to bash firefox. Seriously, I've never seen such hyper-sensitive people in my life. Not all, but most of the replies are just blind defenses of firefox.

Discussion about pros/cons of the browser will make it better. Saying IE sucks doesn't help FireFox improve, and it won't make FireFox beat IE 7 in the browser war. Stop being zealots and have an objective discussion. IE AND FireFox aren't perfect, get over it. How about try having a discussion on how to improve its functionality instead of just complaining about any flaw you find with IE.

It blows my mind that so many of you initially just attack IE, instead of talking about other things that FireFox could to be better. The glass is half full not half empty. You will never win market share just by saying the other guy sucks. I want FireFox to continue to innovate and add new features, not just "nice" things like auto-updates. At this point, security holes are a rampant in all browsers, and that feature is a given to have in any browser.

Real quick, I was speaking to the functionality with the browser, not the engine. I believe they are all fast enough for the average user, and that to win the mindshare of end-users you need to have the "features" that impress and make browsing easier. I agree with the format statements, but that isn't (history shows) relevant in winning a browser war. Plug-ins just aren't as good as native features (memory leaks, stability/crashing, integration issues, etc.).

In anycase, instead of just saying IE sucks, does anyone have any ideas to improve FireFox? The best one I saw was the timeline comment, that FF 1.5 won't be up against IE 7. I you are right.

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[Xugumad]

What really gets me about these "browser wars" is that so many people think it's a good idea if one brower wins. It will be VERY bad if Firefox, IE, Safari, Opera, or whatever other browser becomes the one most people use. The only good outcome is where there are at least three competing browsers (Firefox, IE, and Opera or Safari should do the trick), or we'll continue to have the situation where lazy web developers test their stuff with one browser, and assume it's okay, because "it's the browser most people use".

</rant>

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[Anonymous Coward]

"Dude, what plant are you smoking? I'm pretty sure it was Firefox who came up with tabbed browsing, extensibility for custom applications, integrated pop-up blocking, and many other 'cutting edge' features. "

They were not the first for any of those 3 items you mentioned. Firefox was just playing catchup to other programs out there. It's just that they implemented them properly and all in one application.

Re:IE 7 vs. Firefox 1.5

[drew]

IE7 is also not yet available to the public in any form and probably won't be available as a finished product until Firefox 2 is out (or at least well on it's way). So I wouldn't worry about Firefox losing out to IE7 just yet.

And even if it does, it has still been successful in giving Microsoft the impetus to a) release an up to date browser, and b) follow web standards. As a web developer, I don't really care if Firefox never gets above 10% market share as long as its existence is enough to keep the 80+% market share holder on its toes.

Infinite Loop Problem

[1336]

I had that too (though not all people do). Download and run the rc1 installer from http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/ That should fix things.

Extensions Again

[Blahbooboo3]

Watch your extensions, some seem to not work with latest release. For me, Forecastfox and IE View.... Yes, you can modify the extension to make it work, but it's a bit of a pain and later on seemed to give me problems...

Re:Extensions Again

[Jonny_eh]

Or use this extension to allow the installation of 'incompatible' extensions.

AutoUpdate Issues

[Sv-Manowar]

I've been running 1.5 beta 2 since it was released, and for some reason the autoupdate to 1.5RC1 got stuck in a loop where beta 2 would just keep downloading and applying the upgrader, without actually having any effect. AutoUpdate is one of the key new features in 1.5 to keep users browsers up to date (and hence, patching holes rapidly, keeping FireFox's security edge over IE).

Hopefully this is just the result of issues in beta 2 and older profiles, rather than an indicator of problems in the AutoUpdate code.

Posting this from RC1 and ACID2

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Dies not pass acid 2, however, they ain't the only ones. That company in Redmond has issues too.

Re:Posting this from RC1 and ACID2

[kbrosnan]

There were no plans to make 1.5 pass the Acid2 test. Firefox 1.5 is based on Gecko 1.8. Firefox trunk builds have made some progress as can be seen in bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=198232 part of bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289480.

DO NOT use 1.5 and a trunk build on the same profile.

Re:Posting this from RC1 and ACID2

[Bogtha]

I don't understand why people are continuously surprised that it still isn't passing it yet.

Because the number one thing people have harped on about since Gecko was first open-sourced is how it's the greatest thing to ever happen to web standards. Now along comes a test designed to highlight flaws in standards support, Konqueror passes, Safari passes, even iCab passes, but Firefox not only doesn't pass, but there are no plans to make it pass for the next version (or even the version after that, IIRC).

If people have been believing the standards compliant rhetoric that Mozilla advocates have been pushing for the past seven years, then I don't blame them for being surprised when the only mainstream browser that isn't kicking their arse in standards compliance is Internet Explorer.

Pop-up blocking

[Rinnt]

improved Pop-up blocking

I am *really* looking forward to pop-up blocking improvements. It seems that when I first started using firefox (back in the early days) it caught the vast majority of pop-ups. That situation seems to have gotten worse lately. For example, I visit a certain guitar tab web site. Let's say I want to view 10 different tabs at once... using Firefox's tabs, I just click away. Unfortunately, this also means I'm greated with 10 new pop ups. This happens every time and has really brought back the days before firefox (and no pop-up blocker).

Re:Pop-up blocking

[lpangelrob]

By and large, this is because the website uses at Flash plugin to generate new windows of a specific URL and size. Some websites seem to hook Javascript onto links so that when you click on a "Next Page" or equivalent, a popup appears, but this hasn't happened to me in ages.

If 1.5RC1 doesn't solve this issue, I highly recommend installing Flashblock, which ensures no Flash executes unless you specifically click on it. For these "hidden" Flash animations, you can never click on them, so no more popups for you.

Not any more...

[cakesy]

My copy is 24 seconds away from downloaded ;)

Tempting fate, hey?

Changelog

[Zouden]

If anyone's curious, here's the changelog from 1.5 Beta 2:

New browser features
* 313529 - Support importing home pages from (some) other browsers and multiple versions of Firefox Start.
* 220590 - [Mac] Delete (backspace) key should go back on Mac, too.

New web developer features
* 302188 - Support :-moz-read-only and :-moz-read-write pseudoclasses.
* 230909 - Make the dom.max_script_run_time pref work. (This pref controls the "this script is running slowly" dialog.)

New extension developer features
Nothing new since Firefox 1.5 Beta 2.

Notable bug fixes
* 313300 - Change default for browser.link.open_newwindow.restriction from 0 to 2. (Make "Force links that open new windows to open in... new tabs" not apply to window.open with specified width, height, or other features.)
* 312527 - Need to reduce padding for bookmark menu items.
* 245418 - Menus and contextual menus open on wrong screen when using dual screens.
* 312227 - Not able to type in textbox of the main window after download completes.
* 309027 - Saving image does not open the save location window sometimes.
* Many reliability fixes for software update.
* 284474 - Converting to UTF-8 a url with an unescaped non-ASCII chars in the query part leads to an incompaitbilty with most server-side programs. (Fixed by backing out the change for 261929, Send urls in UTF-8 by default (images/links with non-ASCII chacters not displayed).)
* 245392 - Installer options for shortcuts don't work (update/install adds unwanted icons to desktop/quick launch, creates empty folder in start menu).
* 282750 - Extremely slow scrolling of ESPN.com.
* 310825 - window.focus() in a background tab can steal focus from foreground tab.

Sick bastard

[Iriel]

My copy is 24 seconds away from downloaded ;)

Sure, brag about it because you got to post the story. Now that I'm reading about it, mine's 24,000 seconds.
<griping>Curse you slashdot effect</griping>

24 seconds?

[dancallaghan]

Holy sh*t, Taco's still on dialup? It's only 6MB!

problems w/ first 1.5 beta

[AgentPhunk]

My experience with the first release of 1.5 was good overall, with the exception of one bug that forced me to roll back to the stable 1.0.7. For some reason, some hyperlinks would 'crash' a tab and the page on that tab would be all grey, nothing else. I couldn't close out the tab and it just stayed there until I finally closed out the entire browser window. I could continue to open other tabs and work, but I usually keep Firefox going for a week+ with all of the websites I've been visiting in tabbed windows, and having 'dead' tabs got really frustrating. (not to mention that, if I really wanted to get to that website, I had to open up *shudder* IE.) anyone else have this problem (and/or do you know if it was addressed in RC1? I didn't see anything specific in the release notes.

General comments...

[lpangelrob]

I generally do not test software until the release candidate stage, so this is my first experience with 1.5. Here are my thoughts:

1. Nicer looking menus. A nice little visual bonus.
2. Half my extensions are busted. TargetAlert, Flashblock, SessionSaver... those are the three most important disabled ones right now. Fortunately, it appears I no longer need SlashFix or Tab Mix (try dragging the tabs around).
3. Finally, I can update more than one extension at a time.
4. What's with the OS X-like preferences panel? It seems as though in the last year, more Windows applications have been going in that direction.
5. Haven't tested out the memory leak issue yet. Leave Gmail open for a night, you'll see what I mean.

Re:General comments...

[bigbigbison]

Someone on here suggested the Nightly Tester Tools Extension to force old extensions to work. I found it to be a lifesaver and works with just about every extension I've tried.

Spoke too soon

[jgaynor]

Worked on all of my home machines well - choked to death on my work machine. Here's a nice screen:

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~jgaynor/images/ff.bmp

Google shows others (if only a few) have had this issue with older moz builds.

Here's a small problem...

[WWWWolf]

This is kind of off-topic but also very much on topic, because it does involve firefox update.

Does anyone know how to make SVG files, you know, scalable?

If I put images to web pages with <img> tag, and specify width and height, the image gets scaled.

But if I do what is recommended for SVG - that is, I create a PNG rendering of the image for backwards compatibility, then use <object data="foo.svg" ...><image src="foo.png" .../></object>, with width and height specified on both img and object tags, I get a properly scaled PNG image in Firefox 1.0 (which can't interpret the object type in question, so it falls back to the <img> tag, it as it should), and an improperly scaled SVG image in Firefox 1.5 and all other SVG browsers. Some SVG-enabled browsers (MSIE with AdobeSVG, FF1.0 with Inkscape plugin) show original-size SVG images, FF1.5 seems to be really nice and shows scrollbars on the image.

I tried making a small SVG file which uses <foreignObject> to scale the picture, but it didn't seem to work at all with SVG images in FF1.5, plus, it was an awful hack!

So what's supposed to be the web-standards-compliant trick of placing and arbitrary-sized SVG image on a web site, then having the browser scale the frigging scalable vector graphic file to the specified width and height?

I've looked around everywhere, nobody seems to know - anybody here know?

Re:Here's a small problem...

[jeff_schiller]

It's possible I misunderstood you, but I think the problem may be that the SVG image itself is specifying the size. Look at the element and see if the width/height are being specified. Ideally, the <svg> element should state width="100%" and height="100%". Then this should allow the user agent to properly scale the SVG image inside an <object> tag by specifying the <object>'s width/height. However if the <svg> element specifies width="400px", then maybe you're stuck because the author of the SVG has stated the width is 400 pixels, end of story.

I can't remember what the behavior of the SVG or HTML spec say with respect to this when conflicts occur... Specs like CDF will help to clarify some of these issues.

All I want is...

[frankcow]

1. Plug that stupid memory leak that has FireFox occupying 175MB of RAM after a few hours, and pushing me towards Opera
2. Hurry up and release Minimo 1.0!!!

Download

[Frankie70]

My copy is 24 seconds away from downloaded

So you will be reading Zonk's dupe of this story on your
newly downloaded & installed shiny Firefox.

Re:Adblock?

[octaene]

Until Adblock can work with RC1...

I'm using both Adblock 0.5.2.039 and the Adblock Filterset.G Updater 0.2.6, both with no problems or issues (that I can tell.)

Re:CLIWWW

[Anonymous Coward]

1. go to google.com
2. right-click the search input box
3. select "add a keyword for this search..."
4. type Name: "Google", Keyword: "g", Create In: "Quick Searches"
5. type "g KEYWORDS" or "g 2+2" in the address bar
6. optionally, use toolbar customization to remove the extra search box.

Re:CLIWWW

[Misch]

Set up a quick search for google then.

Create a new bookmark, enter:
http://www.google.com/search?q=%25s

for the location, and a short keyword... like "gg"

Then when you go into the address bar, just type "gg search terms"

Re:I don't have that option...

[kbrosnan]

The account that is running the firefox process needs to have administrator rights on the computer to preform updates.

Portable Firefox 1.5 RC1

[CritterNYC]

I've also released a test version of Portable Firefox based on the new release for anyone that would like it portable... or anyone that wants to try it out without messing with their local profile or Profile Manager.

Portable Firefox: Deer Park 1.5 RC1:
http://johnhaller.com/jh/mozilla/portable_firefox/ deer_park/

For the unfamiliar, Portable Firefox allows you to carry your whole web browser along with all your bookmarks and extensions with you on an iPod, USB thumbdrive, portable hard drive or any other portable media. You can plug it right into any Windows computer and use it just like you would on your own. It is a repackaged version of the popular Mozilla Firefox browser designed with portability in mind, so it has all the same great features of Firefox, but there's nothing to install.

Re:Adblock?

[SilentTristero]

The default adblock version does work to block ads, but clicking the Adblock button in the lower right shows nothing, and should show all the blockable elements. There's a new dev build (0.5.2.054) at the Adblock Forums which seems to work better for me with Firefox 1.5rc1.

There has to be freedom talk too.

[jbn-o]

If Firefox proponents don't begin to mention software freedom, there will be another reason for MSIE 7 users to stick with MSIE and not download the latest version of Firefox. After all, on Microsoft Windows it is easier to use MSIE than to download and install a replacement web browser. Microsoft can implement all sorts of features that Firefox has today or will get soon, but Firefox respects the user's freedoms to run, inspect, copy, and modify the software and MSIE doesn't. It would be a shame to let this advantage go as if it is less important than feature lists. Paying attention to software freedom is what got us the community that has given us so much. As the FSF has warned us:

Today many people are switching to free software for purely practical reasons. That is good, as far as it goes, but that isn't all we need to do! Attracting users to free software is not the whole job, just the first step.

Sooner or later these users will be invited to switch back to proprietary software for some practical advantage. Countless companies seek to offer such temptation, and why would users decline? Only if they have learned to value the freedom free software gives them, for its own sake. It is up to us to spread this idea--and in order to do that, we have to talk about freedom. A certain amount of the ``keep quiet'' approach to business can be useful for the community, but we must have plenty of freedom talk too.

Me thinketh it not working

[krewemaynard]

I tried the "Help | Check for updates" option. It downloaded the update and prompted me to restart Firefox. I did, but FF wasn't updated. I tried 2 or 3 times to update it through Firefox's new update feature, all to no avail. I finally downloaded the full installer, and I'm now (finally) running Firefox 1.5RC1.

w00t?

SVG

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I don't think I'd want all those things in a browser. Then again, since there's rather more to CAD than the graphics (which is a tiny portion of any serious CAD package), I don't think I'll stress over my job writing libraries used in CAD software just yet.

What will be cool about SVG, assuming it works in practice, is having all those CGI scripts that do simple database look-ups able to render simple but effective graphical representations, rather than just displaying data in ugly and/or unhelpful tabular text formats. As long as major sites don't do a Flash with it (must... make... everything... use... cool... new... feature) and stick to the same niches where things like Flash are actually useful (presenting graphical data where this actually enhances the user's experience) this should be great.

Once the browser with 90% market share supports it too, of course. ;-)