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Search for Copernicus Over

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the lost-and-found dept.

blamanj writes "Nikolaus Kopernik, aka Copernicus, father of modern heliocentric theory, was buried in Frombork Cathedral (Poland) after he died in 1543. However, the cathedral's tombs were a mess, and it was unclear exactly where he was. Archaeologists now believe they've found his remains, and are planning to do DNA testing to verify. The search began in 2004."

24 of 188 comments (clear)

  1. check out that portrait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Do you get the impression that old Kopernick was the sort of chap that would run down the street screaming pretty much anything, and maybe he got the heliocentric theory thing right just by coincidence?

    "Apples will set your house on fire!"

    "Birds and dogs mate and give birth to lizards!"

    "By rubbing together two sticks, I created cheese!"

    "The Earth revolves around the sun!"

    "Bannanas are SATAN!!! SATAN!!!"

    "Abolish underwear!!!"

    1. Re:check out that portrait by Vo0k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nope. He did a lot of research in order to present the theory. Being a priest, he wasn't in such deep shit as Galileo or Giordano Bruno, but still he was smart enough to have his finding published after he died :)

      --
      Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
    2. Re:check out that portrait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Umm. Not quite.

      You should not apply current views of knowledge to earlier times when the entire paradigm wa different. Nowadays we prize independent and inovative thinking - as the Greeks did around 500 BC. During the Middle Ages and up to the Renaissance, however, this was not the case. All human knowledge was believed to have already been revealed, either in the Bible or the 'wisdom of ancients', and the job of an intellectual was to extract this knowledge.

      So prior authority was not only important - it was critical. You HAD to cite such authority for your ideas, otherwise they could not be accepted. Producing your own ideas with no authoritative backing was seen as a sin similar to fabricating your base data nowadays. Intellectual giants like Roger Bacon fought against this approach in favour of the experimental method, but it was not really overcome until the 1700s. This is why all writings of this period cite earlier authority.

      School histories of Galileo and others are always done in complete ignorance of the mediaeval mindset, and end up portraying all his opponents as a set of unthinking morons - they were most decidedly not. However, I suppose simple ideas make better television!

    3. Re:check out that portrait by Digz · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, Copernicus was encouraged by the Church. Galileo's fault was that he insisted on calling those people who didn't accept his theory (purported to be fact, even though he could not prove it) morons - including the Pope. During his trial, it was repeatedly stated that the charges would be dropped if he could provide proof for his theory - but he could not. The Church also offered a middle ground - accepting heliocentrism as a hypothesis - even superior to the geocentric one - until more proof was forthcoming.

      http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologet ics/ap0138.html
      http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Issues/Gal ileoAffair.html

      Can we let this myth die?

      --
      SYS 64738
    4. Re:check out that portrait by m0nstr42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not that I want to be skeptical, or claim to know the real story, but do you have any non-catholic sources for that information?

      --
      m0nstr42.blogspot.com
  2. He looks a bit like.... by teewurstmann · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... James Cromwell, the actor from the movie "Babe", you know, the one with the talking pig... I bet Copernicus couldn't understand or train pigs, but he sure understood that the earth isn't the center of the universe.

    --
    Get a free Video iPod!
  3. Why should we care? by gowen · · Score: 5, Funny

    The world doesn't revolve around Copernicus, you know...

    --
    Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    1. Re:Why should we care? by Deanalator · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, if we want to make an all-star physicist basketball team, we don't want to clone the wrong guy now do we?

  4. DNA Testing... by MrFlannel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, well, we've got these bones. And we're going to test them to make sure they match with the known DNA sequence of Copernicus.

    Alright, so, they track down known relatives... problem is, 500 years? Thats what... 25 generations?
    "Yes, this man is Copernicus's Great-great-great-....-great-grandson. We can see they both have green eyes. This woman is his great-great-...-great-granddaughter, twice removed. We can see by this DNA that they're both left handed. So, of course, these must be is bones!"

    Not to mention he didn't have any kids of his own. Which just quarters the probabiliy of similarities.

    Or did I miss something? Anyone know how accurate this will actually be?

    --
    Clones are people two.
    1. Re:DNA Testing... by gxv · · Score: 3, Informative

      They want to compare Copernicus DNA with the DNA of his uncle Lukasz Watzenrode, bishop of Warmia. But first they have to find his grave. There is a catch though. They dont know where is his grave yet...

    2. Re:DNA Testing... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Anyone know how accurate this will actually be?

      Seeing that they claim to be able to extract DNA from these bones, I imagine they could raid the burial sites of his known relatives of the day, and their descendants, right up to the present day.

      That way you would get a trail of DNA from the past to the present, which would make matching easier.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    3. Re:DNA Testing... by Oxen · · Score: 5, Informative

      I haven't read the article, nor am I at all informed as to the specifics of this case. However, they may be able to find a relative with the same mitochondrial DNA or the same Y-chromosome as Copernicus. Both of these pass unchanged from generation to generation.

      A person only inherits mitochondrial DNA from his mother. Using this principle, if we know someone who has descended entirely maternally from a common female ancestor of both him and Copernicus, we can check to see if it is Copernicus.

      The same thing goes for Y-chromosomes and men. This is done surprisingly frequently with historical figures. It was done with the Thomas Jefferson/Slave thing and also with Anastasia Romanov. There is a caveat, however. You cannot distinguish between relatives, so even if it tests positive, it could be Copernicus's brother or another relative in the same genetic umbrella.

      -Mark

      --
      First you animate. Then you SUSPEND!!!
    4. Re:DNA Testing... by Max+Nugget · · Score: 4, Informative

      >> Yes, well, we've got these bones. And we're going to test them to make sure they match with the known DNA sequence of Copernicus.

      From TFA:

      "The grave was in bad condition and not all remains were found, Gassowski said, adding that his team will try to find relatives of Copernicus to do more accurate DNA identification."

      I imagine they're talking about finding the graves of his dead relatives, not living descendants. If you find a skeleton that you have independent reasons to believe is some particular relative of his, and the DNA from that skeleton happens to corroborate that relationship when compared to the "Copernicus" DNA, you've increased the accuracy of the Copernicus skull substantially, because the chances of the relative being misidentified AND happening to have the correct DNA relationship with the suspected Copernicus DNA is miniscule, so long as the evidence leading you to the relative's remains was unrelated to the evidence that pointed you to Copernicus' remains, and provided the remains aren't buried, for example, right next to his (if they are then you've got nothing because any group of people buried together are likely to be related).

      And, not from TFA (from me):

      They may also be able to examine the DNA for certain genetic features that match up with aesthetic and non-aesthetic traits that are historically known about him.

      I was about to say they could also compare the DNA attributes with the aesthetic attributes of the skull, but then I slapped myself in the head for not realizing it would be self-referential since that's where the DNA came from. =)

  5. Comments and Documentation by GodOfCode · · Score: 5, Funny

    This shows us how important it is to properly comment and document the code we write!

  6. He must still be alive! by stirz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've seen two photos of the reconstructed head over at German "Spiegel online" and I the first thing that came to my mind was: "That's James Cromwell". Just compare some photos on your own. The similarity is really amazing:-)

    Regards,
    Stirz

  7. Finally! by nihilogos · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm sure we'll all sleep better tonight.

    --
    :wq
  8. This just in... by aussie_a · · Score: 4, Funny

    the search for people who care has now begun.

  9. Damned smartass historians. by Vo0k · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm Pole, and obviously we had more focus on Copernicus in our schools than the US kids (not to mention our schools serve about thrice the amount of knowledge...)
    So we were taught the life and findings of Copernicus, and as for his death, we were informed that his corpse lies in the Frombork Cathedral.
    Now I wonder if any kid on a visit to Frombork asked the teacher to see Copernicus' tomb, what would they do? "ups... well, we KNOW he is in the cathedral... somewhere..."

    --
    Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
  10. As the old verse says by Flying+pig · · Score: 4, Interesting
    (Apologies for spelling errors this is from memory)

    Der Himmel nicht die Erde umgeht
    Wie die Gelehrten meynen

    Muss jeden Mann sein Wurm gewiss
    Kopernikus des seinen

    (roughly The heavens do not go round the Earth as the learned held. Every man will get eaten by worms, even Copernicus)

    --
    Pining for the fjords
  11. Re:will they dig up the bones? by Phroggy · · Score: 3, Informative

    and auction them off on Ebay?

    That's actually against eBay's policy.

    --
    $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
    $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  12. State of the tombs by base_chakra · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... the cathedral's tombs were a mess

    I can vouch for this. Dirt everywhere! It was appalling.

  13. Copernicus, dead at 532 by Ph33r+th3+g(O)at · · Score: 4, Funny

    I just heard some sad news on talk radio today. Famed astronomer and scientist Copernicus was found dead in his cathedral tomb today. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an heliocentric icon.

    --
    I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
  14. Re:First Prime Factorization Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
    Sure, it's off-topic, but 867-5309 is prime.

    Somehow I doubt Tommy Tutone knew that.

  15. Future Such Searches Will Be Much Easier! by MrNiceguy_KS · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...Thanks to the announcement of Google Graveyard Search (beta)

    --
    Redundancy is good And also good.