Search for Copernicus Over

blamanj writes "Nikolaus Kopernik, aka Copernicus, father of modern heliocentric theory, was buried in Frombork Cathedral (Poland) after he died in 1543. However, the cathedral's tombs were a mess, and it was unclear exactly where he was. Archaeologists now believe they've found his remains, and are planning to do DNA testing to verify. The search began in 2004."

Comments

check out that portrait

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you get the impression that old Kopernick was the sort of chap that would run down the street screaming pretty much anything, and maybe he got the heliocentric theory thing right just by coincidence?

"Apples will set your house on fire!"

"Birds and dogs mate and give birth to lizards!"

"By rubbing together two sticks, I created cheese!"

"The Earth revolves around the sun!"

"Bannanas are SATAN!!! SATAN!!!"

"Abolish underwear!!!"

Re:check out that portrait

[Vo0k]

Nope. He did a lot of research in order to present the theory. Being a priest, he wasn't in such deep shit as Galileo or Giordano Bruno, but still he was smart enough to have his finding published after he died :)

Re:check out that portrait

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm. Not quite.

You should not apply current views of knowledge to earlier times when the entire paradigm wa different. Nowadays we prize independent and inovative thinking - as the Greeks did around 500 BC. During the Middle Ages and up to the Renaissance, however, this was not the case. All human knowledge was believed to have already been revealed, either in the Bible or the 'wisdom of ancients', and the job of an intellectual was to extract this knowledge.

So prior authority was not only important - it was critical. You HAD to cite such authority for your ideas, otherwise they could not be accepted. Producing your own ideas with no authoritative backing was seen as a sin similar to fabricating your base data nowadays. Intellectual giants like Roger Bacon fought against this approach in favour of the experimental method, but it was not really overcome until the 1700s. This is why all writings of this period cite earlier authority.

School histories of Galileo and others are always done in complete ignorance of the mediaeval mindset, and end up portraying all his opponents as a set of unthinking morons - they were most decidedly not. However, I suppose simple ideas make better television!

Re:check out that portrait

[Digz]

Actually, Copernicus was encouraged by the Church. Galileo's fault was that he insisted on calling those people who didn't accept his theory (purported to be fact, even though he could not prove it) morons - including the Pope. During his trial, it was repeatedly stated that the charges would be dropped if he could provide proof for his theory - but he could not. The Church also offered a middle ground - accepting heliocentrism as a hypothesis - even superior to the geocentric one - until more proof was forthcoming.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologet ics/ap0138.html
http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Issues/Gal ileoAffair.html

Can we let this myth die?

Why should we care?

[gowen]

The world doesn't revolve around Copernicus, you know...

Re:Why should we care?

[Deanalator]

Well, if we want to make an all-star physicist basketball team, we don't want to clone the wrong guy now do we?

DNA Testing...

[MrFlannel]

Yes, well, we've got these bones. And we're going to test them to make sure they match with the known DNA sequence of Copernicus.

Alright, so, they track down known relatives... problem is, 500 years? Thats what... 25 generations?
"Yes, this man is Copernicus's Great-great-great-....-great-grandson. We can see they both have green eyes. This woman is his great-great-...-great-granddaughter, twice removed. We can see by this DNA that they're both left handed. So, of course, these must be is bones!"

Not to mention he didn't have any kids of his own. Which just quarters the probabiliy of similarities.

Or did I miss something? Anyone know how accurate this will actually be?

Re:DNA Testing...

[Oxen]

I haven't read the article, nor am I at all informed as to the specifics of this case. However, they may be able to find a relative with the same mitochondrial DNA or the same Y-chromosome as Copernicus. Both of these pass unchanged from generation to generation.

A person only inherits mitochondrial DNA from his mother. Using this principle, if we know someone who has descended entirely maternally from a common female ancestor of both him and Copernicus, we can check to see if it is Copernicus.

The same thing goes for Y-chromosomes and men. This is done surprisingly frequently with historical figures. It was done with the Thomas Jefferson/Slave thing and also with Anastasia Romanov. There is a caveat, however. You cannot distinguish between relatives, so even if it tests positive, it could be Copernicus's brother or another relative in the same genetic umbrella.

-Mark

Re:DNA Testing...

[Max Nugget]

>> Yes, well, we've got these bones. And we're going to test them to make sure they match with the known DNA sequence of Copernicus.

From TFA:

"The grave was in bad condition and not all remains were found, Gassowski said, adding that his team will try to find relatives of Copernicus to do more accurate DNA identification."

I imagine they're talking about finding the graves of his dead relatives, not living descendants. If you find a skeleton that you have independent reasons to believe is some particular relative of his, and the DNA from that skeleton happens to corroborate that relationship when compared to the "Copernicus" DNA, you've increased the accuracy of the Copernicus skull substantially, because the chances of the relative being misidentified AND happening to have the correct DNA relationship with the suspected Copernicus DNA is miniscule, so long as the evidence leading you to the relative's remains was unrelated to the evidence that pointed you to Copernicus' remains, and provided the remains aren't buried, for example, right next to his (if they are then you've got nothing because any group of people buried together are likely to be related).

And, not from TFA (from me):

They may also be able to examine the DNA for certain genetic features that match up with aesthetic and non-aesthetic traits that are historically known about him.

I was about to say they could also compare the DNA attributes with the aesthetic attributes of the skull, but then I slapped myself in the head for not realizing it would be self-referential since that's where the DNA came from. =)

Comments and Documentation

[GodOfCode]

This shows us how important it is to properly comment and document the code we write!

He must still be alive!

[stirz]

I've seen two photos of the reconstructed head over at German "Spiegel online" and I the first thing that came to my mind was: "That's James Cromwell". Just compare some photos on your own. The similarity is really amazing:-)

Regards,
Stirz

Finally!

[nihilogos]

I'm sure we'll all sleep better tonight.

This just in...

[aussie_a]

the search for people who care has now begun.

As the old verse says

[Flying pig]

(Apologies for spelling errors this is from memory)

Der Himmel nicht die Erde umgeht
Wie die Gelehrten meynen

Muss jeden Mann sein Wurm gewiss
Kopernikus des seinen

(roughly The heavens do not go round the Earth as the learned held. Every man will get eaten by worms, even Copernicus)

Copernicus, dead at 532

[Ph33r th3 g(O)at]

I just heard some sad news on talk radio today. Famed astronomer and scientist Copernicus was found dead in his cathedral tomb today. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an heliocentric icon.