360 Launch Lineup Released

Gamespot reports that the much-discussed launch title list for the Xbox 360 is now available. The list, from the article: "Amped 3 (2K Sports), Call of Duty 2 (Activision), Condemned: Criminal Origins (Sega), FIFA 06: Road to the World Cup (Electronic Arts), Gun (Activision), Kameo: Elements of Power (Microsoft Game Studios), Madden NFL 06 (Electronic Arts), NBA 2K6 (2K Sports), NBA Live 06 (Electronic Arts), Need for Speed Most Wanted (Electronic Arts), NHL 2K6 (2K Sports), Perfect Dark Zero (Microsoft Game Studios), Peter Jackson's King Kong (Ubisoft), Project Gotham Racing 3 (Microsoft Game Studios), Quake 4 (Activision), Ridge Racer 6 (Namco), Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06 (Electronic Arts), Tony Hawk's American Wasteland (Activision)"

Comments

Sports games, racing games, FPS...

[Knetzar]

That leaves 2 or 3 games that I'd consider buying.

Re:Sports games, racing games, FPS...

[Delphiki]

How many games do you need the first day you get a console? I'd say most gamers could find a couple games they want on that list, and more games will be out soon. So what's the problem?

Re:Sports games, racing games, FPS...

[Knetzar]

It's that there are so many sports games.

Re:Sports games, racing games, FPS...

[Delphiki]

I think you missed my point. Every launch has a ton of sports games. So what? Lots of people enjoy sports games. You said there are two or three games you might consider buying. Yeah, that's not a lot, but there's something that you might be interested in. It's a launch line up, every player isn't going to find 10 killer games to buy. More games are coming out, so you just have to find enough games to play until something else you like comes out.

I'm going to get a 360 soon after launch and will probably only get two games, which will be plenty until more games come out, which they obviously will. Not everyone is going to go nuts over this launch line-up but some people will and a lot of people will be able to find at least a couple games to get excited about.

Re:Sports games, racing games, FPS...

[toad3k]

It reminds me of when I got an xbox. I got ninja gaiden and then when I went to get more games, I realized it was all sports, racing, and ports from pc games that I'd already played. Not going to make that mistake again.

Re:Sports games, racing games, FPS...

[SilentChris]

Considering the N64 and GameCube both launched with 2 games, only by Nintendo, at least MS should be happy they have 3rd-party support.

Re:Sports games, racing games, FPS...

[Gulthek]

So if there were two games you liked and one sports game, that would be ok. But if there are two games you like and ten sports games, that isn't?

Re:Sports games, racing games, FPS...

[Thrakkerzog]

The gamecube had 12 launch titles.

Re:Sports games, racing games, FPS...

[matlokheed]

Gamecube released in Japan with three games (Luigi Mansion, Wave Race: Blue Storm, Super Monkeyball DX).

In the U.S., it released with 12 (adding Rogue Squadron, Crazy Taxi, Batman: Vengeance, and I believe a few sports games).

holy shit!

[syrinx]

A bunch of sports games and FPS's! On the new XBox! Who would have guessed?

(I don't suppose the XBox comes with, you know, a mouse, or some other controller that would actually make a console FPS fun?)

Re:holy shit!

[Anonymous Coward]

(I don't suppose the XBox comes with, you know, a mouse, or some other controller that would actually make a console FPS fun?)

Sure it does! You'll have to get an older version of the Xbox360 (i.e. it won't look as shiny, nor does it come with built-in wireless controllers), but you should be able to pick up one at Best Buy for $300-400 or so. Best part about it is that there's no artificial shortages, and a lot of these games have already been released (and even discounted)!

So: you head down to Best Buy, go to the "computer" section, and ask the nice customer service guy if you could buy a "computer" (which is what they call non-TV Xbox360 machines). It'll probably come with a mouse and a keyboard, and perhaps even a monitor if you're lucky.

Re:holy shit!

[Cheapy]

Indeed it does something like a mouse that makes console FPSs fun. It's called a thumbstick, and it works great.

Re:holy shit!

[Anonymous Coward]

Like hell it works great. My thumb isn't for aiming a gun, that's what my wrist is for.

Re:holy shit!

[Khuffie]

Good luck getting that "computer" to play games the Xbox 360 can handle.

Re:holy shit!

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

I don't suppose the XBox comes with, you know, a mouse, or some other controller that would actually make a console FPS fun?

Since you restarted the holy war, I may as well reply...

The Xbox controller has two thumbsticks on a single controller. This offers a few advantages over the keyboard/mouse setup:

You have two thumbsticks. If you use a keyboard, you have to use the digital arrow keys (or WASD) to move around. With a thumbstick, you have analog control both of exactly what direction you want to move/strafe or how fast you want to move. The other option is to use two mice.

All the buttons are near the thumbsticks, unlike FPSes which just have the two firing controls on the mouse. This means that you use the same hand for paired actions, which helps your reflexes a bit.

The interface is slightly more natural to gaming to use specially-designed buttons than to type keys.

And here's the catch: although I prefer console controllers, I can have as much fun with a keyboard and a mouse. If the controller prevents you from having fun, you need to rethink whether you were enjoying the game in the first place. We can debate about this here until Jesus comes back (and tells us what interface God uses), but meanwhile we should be able to enjoy both interfaces. Or make that all three, once the Revolution comes out. Unless a controller is actually poorly designed, it shouldn't interfere with your enjoyment of the game.

What a bunch of junk

[voice_of_all_reason]

Half of them are sports clones. These are the games you'll see in 2 months in the bargain bin for $10. Why not just release the 4-5 decent games and have a stellar-rated lineup then filling up the shelves with crap?

Re:What a bunch of junk

[cowscows]

Because when you're rushing a console release, it's a whole lot easier for the devs to kick out a bunch of clones then produce some brand new quality titles?

I'm not saying that the reality is a good thing, just that it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone at all.

Re:What a bunch of junk

[TiggerPac]

Half of them are sports clones. ... Why not just release the 4-5 decent games and have a stellar-rated lineup then filling up the shelves with crap?

Because people will play and buy the crap. The sports game market is huge. I'm not a sports gamer myself, but it's clear to see they sell big and pull in huge piles of cashy money.

Re:What a bunch of junk

[voice_of_all_reason]

Is that really true? How do places like Wal-Mart end up with dozens of brand new copies still in inventory months later?

Re:What a bunch of junk

[theantipop]

Because a) all the games they sell are brand-new, and b) the first tenate of retail is to keep inventory full. Just because you or I don't like sports games doesn't mean everyone agrees.

Re:What a bunch of junk

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

Well, even though your example is completely anecdotal and has no reason to be in a discussion of what sells and doesn't sell - my guess would be is that since Walmart gets many more copies of the highest selling games in, there are going to be more left.

Now for reality: Video Game Sales for Last Year

1 - Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - PS2 - Take II Interactive
2 - Halo 2* - XBX - Microsoft
3 - Madden NFL 2005* - PS2 - Electronic Arts
4 - ESPN NFL 2K5 - PS2 - Take II Interactive
5 - Need For Speed: Underground 2 - PS2 - Electronic Arts
6 - Pokemon Fire Red W/ Adapter - GBA - Nintendo of America
7 - NBA Live 2005 - PS2 - Electronic Arts
8 - Spider-Man: The Movie 2 - PS2 - Activision
9 - Halo - XBX - Microsoft
10 - ESPN NFL 2K5 - XBX - Take II Interactive

Guess what - sports games sell. I know it's popular to look down on playing sports games on Slashdot but there's really no reason for it. Different people enjoy different types of games. Just as I don't insult people who enjoy D&D (even though I myself don't play D&D) I don't look down on others who do. Let people play the games they want to play. If, in your eyes, the games aren't appealing, don't buy them. But since you don't enjoy them and, I presume, don't play them, you're not really in a position to determine which ones are good and bad. Enough of the 'I'm too intellectual for sports games and FPS games'-attitude; they're all games. I own both Katamari Damacy and Madden 2006 - neither of those games is a reflection of my manhood and/or intellectual capability. People who think that way and equate playing sports games with being stupid are the ones with the lacking intellect.

Re:What a bunch of junk

[Anonymous Coward]

Half of them are sports clones...Why not just release the 4-5 decent games and have a stellar-rated lineup then filling up the shelves with crap?

Why are sports games necessarily crap? Maybe this hasn't occurred to you, but lots of people like sports games and there are a lot of good sports games. They were the second-best selling game genre last year, and four of last year's top 10 selling games were sports titles. Obviously popularity does not equate to quality, but people wouldn't keep buying these games year in and year out if they didn't have any redeeming value. Like in any genre, some sports games are garbage and others are great. Just because most people on Slashdot dislike sports games doesn't mean they are worthless or that no one else likes them. Omitting sports games from their lineup would have been downright foolish.

And what's wrong with releasing all the games and giving the consumer a choice? Choice is good, right?

Re:What a bunch of junk

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

So because you don't care for sports games, they're crap? You're a rather open-minded person, aren't you?

Re:What a bunch of junk

[HarvardAce]

Because when you're rushing a console release, it's a whole lot easier for the devs to kick out a bunch of clones then produce some brand new quality titles?

While you could consider many of them "clones" (aren't nearly all games today clones of older games?), many of them are more than just ports from the current-gen systems. For example, Madden '06's engine was rewritten for the XBox360 (I'd post the link from the gamespot article but it's blocked at work), and I'm pretty sure I remember reading something similar for the 2K series of sports games.

Re:What a bunch of junk

[voice_of_all_reason]

Whoa, call the whaaambulance

Just because a game sells good doesn't mean it's a good game. That sports games so overfill the bargain bin of used games stores mean they have an awful replay value.

How many do you see on "top 100 games of all time" compilations

Re:What a bunch of junk

[voice_of_all_reason]

Omitting sports games from the lineup is a far cry than more than 50% of the releases being from a single genre

Re:What a bunch of junk

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

I see you've decided to shift the argument. Let's shift it back, shall we?

You questioned whether or not sports games actually sold well. I responded by citing numbers that showed that sports games do sell well. Nowhere in my post did I claim that sports games have great replay value. My point was that when it comes to things like video games which are designed for personal entertainment, the yardstick is the individual and I see no point in people insulting others for what video games they choose to play.

As for your notion that sports games will never show up on a top 100 list, I will again refer you to the fact that different individuals enjoy different games. Top 100 lists are incredibly biased and normally reflect a small segment of the gamer population. With that being said, IGN's Top 100 List has 11 sports games by my count.

So let's go over what you haven't learned today.

1. Sports games sell well (even though you questioned whether they did).
2. Sports games appear in top 100 lists (even though you stated they didn't).
3. People who feel the need to attack people who play a particular genre of video game aren't as smart as they think they are (you've demonstrated this perfectly).

Don't be so scared of the outside world that you overcompensate by insulting others for what they choose to enjoy to entertain themselves. Enjoy what you want - others will do the same. Maybe once you grow up a little, you will realize this.

Re:What a bunch of junk

[Retroneous]

Of course, the real question is why the hell is Gamespot blocked from work, but not Slashdot?

Re:What a bunch of junk

[Wilson_6500]

I look down on sports games because, seriously, how many times can you release the a game about football? Or cricket? The sport doesn't change. You don't add special powers. You don't get new levels. There's no story to continue. You just update the rosters and add a new camera mode, not to mention a thousand bugs. I could go on about sweatshop development, consumer lock-in, the death of creativity in video gaming, and such--but I have better things to do.

If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to waiting for FFXII. I hear they added a new camera mode!

Re:What a bunch of junk

[Headcase88]

The original argument was "why fill the 360 launch lineup with sports clones?" the counter-argument was "they sell well", your counter-counter-argument is "just because they sell well doesn't mean they're good". My conuter-counter-counter-argument is "I think they suck too, but the games sell well, which means they'll also help sell 360s, and that is what the argument was about."

But now for the real reason I posted:

"Just because a game sells good doesn't mean it's a good game."

Meanwhile, Guitar Hero gets a 9+ from every damn site, has amazing mainstream music and a controller based on a real guitar (travel-size), and just in general has "I want to play this game" written all over it when someone sees it in action, and half the stores don't even carry it.

Re:What a bunch of junk

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you played the madden series?

I am not going to say that it requires buying every year, but they do add in a bunch of new features each time around. I don't play other sports games much, but football has enough complexity to warrant updates over time. Franchise mode, training camp, QB vision, more advanced audibles, truck stick/hit stick, tournament mode, online play, different plays/formations, smarter player AI, more mini camps, Madden and Al Michaels get more and less annoying as commentators, graphics updates, etc. If you buy this game every 2-3 years you will find tons of new stuff to keep you interested. Sports games have evolved beyond simplistic "games" and now require a good knowledge of the sport. I would go as far as to say that if you're not very good at the sport, you are probably not going to be good at the video game version either.

Also, I have encountered a bug in madden all of once. Bugs are pretty rare in console games, and tend to be found in only a few games. Where are these thousands of bugs you speak of?

Re:What a bunch of junk

[holySherm]

saddest part of that isn't that sports games sell, but that sequels sell. 9/10 best sellers were sequels =/ But I suppose every Final Fantasy, zelda, mario, and Halo game...I will buy in a second no matter how many sequels they have. :(

Re:What a bunch of junk

[brkello]

Exactly. Beautiful post. The elitist attitude on games.slashdot.org needs to die. The fact that so many people do play these games mean that a lot of people find them fun. It's fine if you don't enjoy them, but don't think you are special and have some god given gift to know what a great game is for everyone.

Re:What a bunch of junk

[ClamIAm]

Why do you think that, like, 9 out of 10 Sega Genesis games you find in the used game shelves these days are sports games? Because people buy them.

Re:What a bunch of junk

[jclast]

Anecdotal as it may be, I point you at both Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic and Jak II.

Both games feature game-halting bugs which come about through no fault of the player.

In Jak II, the player is penalized for doing side missions early (Kiera disappears and the game halts because she is required for a required mission).

In Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, the player can be stuck because s/he fails an awareness check to trigger a cutscene.

Console games have bugs, too, and they're less prone to see fixes than their PC counterparts (although XBox cames _could_ be fixed via Live).

Not exactly

[the computer guy nex]

Despite what the Anti-MS'rs will say below, this is an impressive lineup. It has a little something for every crowd that the Xbox360 is targeting.

RPG/Adventure - Kameo, probably the best launch title out there. Great game.

FPS - Call of Duty 2 and Perfect Dark 0. Quake4 and GUN probably won't be as good as these.

Sports - NFL NCAAB Soccer NBA. Won't have much extra functionality than their old-gen counterparts but will look great graphically.

Racing - NFS Most Wanted, Project Gothem, Ridge Racer.

With titles like Dead or Alive4 and Elder Scrolls 4 not far behind Microsoft has done a fantastic job. They will have over a million available on Day1 (over 4x what PS2 had at launch) and will sell out.

Re:Not exactly

[ClownsScareMe]

Steve, is that you?

Re:Not exactly

[ReverendHoss]

"RPG/Adventure - Kameo, probably the best launch title out there. Great game."

Have you played it? For how long?

This is intended to be neither sarcastic, nor an attack. I'm simply an RPG fan, who skipped the XBox as it did not seem to have as much going for it in that department as the PS2 *coughFF Xcough*. I have my PC for MMORPG's, but if there were a couple nice RPG's for the XBox 360, I may give it another look.

Re:Not exactly

[the computer guy nex]

Couple hours at a kiosk. I call this game a 'magical Zelda' - same type of action/adventure/rpg with more based on magic.

Re:Not exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

wow, its a marketing drone smart enough to have a slashdot account

when will the first one be able to qualify for a boat loan?

Seriously though
We have... Sports reworks, Racing reworks, FPSs and umm Elements of Power

So for the launch of the next generation system, they have what? 1? title which will potentially feature new/disctictive gameplay? ::yawn::

Re:Not exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

Your check is in the mail

-Thanks, MS Advert Department


you must like those bouncing off your chin huh?

Re:Not exactly

[Xarius]

All of that is prediction, how can something "probably be the best launch title out there" if it's not even been released for the general public?

Less hype please, you can't call something a "Great game" until you've played it, unless you're a media puppet.

And everyone knows sequels can be absolutely abysmal, we won't know anything until the actual system is released. Does anyone remember the hype for Halo, which was nothing more than a glorified generic FPS?

Re:Not exactly

[jchenx]

Same here. Being an RPG fan, my PS2 got way more playtime than my Xbox (yes, I'm a Squeenix and Nippon Ichi junkie). When I saw the Xbox.com page boasting that all "popular genres" were covered, and no RPGs listed, that irked me. (I don't count Kameo. As good as it may be, it's really a platformer)

Fortunately, there are a couple of RPGs on the way for the platform. Ninety-Nine Nights looks interesting, but it's more action RPG-ish. What I'm really looking forward to are Enchant ARM and Blue Dragon.

http://games.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1278/NinetyNine -Nights/
http://games.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1281/eM-eNCHANT -arM/
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/bluedragon/

Re:Not exactly

[Fred Or Alive]

When has an RPG been a launch title for a console though? Their's usually some in the first year, but it's pretty rare for any to actually be ready for the launch itself.

Re:Not exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

"Despite what the Anti-MS'rs will say below, this is an impressive lineup. It has a little something for every crowd that the Xbox360 is targeting"

What about people who want a unique gameplay experiance? The XBox 360's line-up is almost entirely sequels of copies of clones of original games.

What about people who like RPGs?

What about an entire 1/3 of the worldwide gaming market (Japan), what games apeal to them?

The XBox 360's line-up is great for 18-24 year old men who are only interested in sports games and FPS games; Kameo and King Kong pretty much the only games that actually addresses a broader audience than that (and King Kong is comming out for Gamecube, PS2 and XBox). The XBox 360 seems like the perfect platform for people who bought an XBox and were really happy with it; anyone who saw no point previously probably has no incentive to buy one now.

Re:Not exactly

[cornface]

Couple hours at a kiosk. I call this game a 'magical Zelda' - same type of action/adventure/rpg with more based on magic.

Geez, why don't you let someone else have a turn?

Re:Not exactly

[Blakey Rat]

There were a couple nice RPGs for the Xbox, but they were PC-style RPGs, and not console-style ones. I'm thinking specifically of KOTOR (which is somewhere inbetween, actually), Morrowind, and Fable. Oh, and Arx Fatalis, which is underrated IMO. And Jade Empire.

The only console-style RPG the system had was Sudeki which, frankly, was mediocre at best. (If they had re-recorded the audio and made the combat a little less repetitive, I'd wholeheartedly recommend it. But talk about bad voice acting! Sheesh! Worst in the industy! 1960s Godzilla movie dubbers would have been a better choice!)

Re:Not exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

Just found this eBay listing where somebody is selling an Xbox 360 and Kameo now, a week before release:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Xbox-360-Kameo-New-in-Box-AVAI LABLE-NOW_W0QQitemZ8234160841QQcategoryZ62054QQssP ageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Re:Not exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't insult the RPG genre by calling Kameo an RPG.

Seriously.

As for it being "the best launch title out there" and a "great game," the reviews seem to disagree.

Holy sequels Batman!

[holySherm]

18 total games at launch. 14 of which are sequels. 15 unoriginal games if you count King Kong. Yet, people will still buy the roster updates in droves and reinforce the gaming industry's (mainly EA's) lust for easy cash from recycled crap. Though I definitely expect to see half of these games on ebay for $30 right after launch since they're forcing you to buy the games with the systems. New system and theres just 1-2 new and creative titles made for launch and the sequels aren't even adding anything new to the game like Mario 64 did for the n64 when it created the first 3d platformer, sequel yes, but at least something new.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[Donniedarkness]

It makes sense to release sequals, though... how else are you going to get people who don't read game reviews to be EXCITED about buying the game?

1.People see Perfect Dark 0

2. People remember Perfect Dark

3. PROFIT!!!

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[the computer guy nex]

What is wrong with sequel games? "Never buy the first year of a new line of cars" is good advice for a reason. Madden is better now than it was back on SNES.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[Red Flayer]

If I were a game publisher and I was risking a ton of dev $$ on a game for a new console, and I was pretty certain that the game wouldn't have a markedly upgraded appearance over late-gen games for the previous console...

You can bet I'd publish a low-risk title like a sequel. Especially until my dev team was able to make better use of the next-gen capabilities.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[generic-man]

Like the PlayStation or GameCube are any better: Dance Dance Revolution Extreme 2, Dynasty Warriors 5, Romance of the Three Kingdoms X, Final Fantasy XII, Mario Party 7, Dragon Quest VIII, Soul Calibur III, and even We Love Katamari (remember the original, the game that was supposed to rid us of derivative games? It has a sequel).

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[Anonymous Coward]

There is nothing "wrong" with sequels

there is something wrong when you "next" generation gaming system with "new", "innovative", and "special" gameplay launchs with a bunch of mainly graphical reworks of prior stuff. Sure, its nice to have a polished game, but there should be at least a few neat games!

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[cornface]

Madden is better now than it was back on SNES.

Madden 94 on the Genesis is still the best Madden of all time. Sorry!

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[Phisbut]

and even We Love Katamari (remember the original, the game that was supposed to rid us of derivative games? It has a sequel).

Ya know what? Katamari has a sequel because people asked for a sequel. We just couldn't get enough of the first one. "Having a sequel" in itself isn't bad. But when having a sequel is predictable, and the sequel has a sequel, and then the whole genre is used by hundred of games... that is when originality begins to go away.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[generic-man]

I know it's hard to believe, but people asked for more sports games too. While EA could have sold roster updates for a fraction of the cost of Madden n+1, making nearly 100% profit on readily-available data, people will happily pay $50 for each incarnation.

Is Pac-Man less fun because there are 200 clones of it floating around? Is Breakout less fun because it's been ported everywhere? I thought competition (in the absence of exclusive licenses) was supposed to encourage creativity and innovation, not stifle it.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[oGMo]

Like the PlayStation or GameCube are any better: Dance Dance Revolution Extreme 2, Dynasty Warriors 5, Romance of the Three Kingdoms X, Final Fantasy XII, Mario Party 7, Dragon Quest VIII, Soul Calibur III, and even We Love Katamari (remember the original, the game that was supposed to rid us of derivative games? It has a sequel).

We're also talking a console launch, not its 5th year, here. Once you're working on an Nth-generation of a console, you can expect a lot of sequels---hopefully you have some successful franchises and the like. But this is a launch... maybe there are some new games? Ones that aren't simply replacing old data with new (i.e. Sports Game 2005) and maybe some improved graphics?

Cripe, and people were complaining about the PSP launch. It at least had original stuff: Lumines, Darkstalkers, Untold Legends. Even where there were franchises, we got new stuff (Metal Gear Acid, THUG2:Remix, Wipeout:Pure, Twisted Metal: Head On). The one exception to this was probably Ape Escape, which was basically upgraded graphics.

But don't complain about the PSP and then laud the 360 on its wonderful launch.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[Anonymous Coward]

The Xbox 360 is hardly a new console. It's a $400 console for which you can buy $50 first-party controllers and which has all sorts of fun new ways to rid you of your money.

Please save your PSP persecution complexes for someone else. I happen to own more than 50 movies on UMD and I love them all.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[MilenCent]

and even We Love Katamari (remember the original, the game that was supposed to rid us of derivative games? It has a sequel).

You leave out (on purpose?) the fact that it was the only game of the ones listed that truly deserved a sequel. All the other games were sequels of sequels of sequels. You don't cut We Love Katamari some slack for being a mere sequel, despite the fact that almost everyone who played the original would agree it was much too short?

As for it ridding us of derivative games, yeah sure like magically the release of one title will end the painful deluge of sports games like Roster Update '06. Not even Katamari has that kind of mojo, bunky, although it's a start....

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[generic-man]

Terribly sorry. When my game company wants to release a sequel to one of our extremely popular games, I will have to contact MilenCent first by e-mail to see if the game "deserves a sequel.' If MilenCent does not approve, we will have to shelve the project.

Sincerely,
Lawrence F. Probst III
Chief Executive Officer, Electronic Arts

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[oGMo]

The Xbox 360 is hardly a new console.

I actually have no idea what you mean by this. :-)

Please save your PSP persecution complexes for someone else. I happen to own more than 50 movies on UMD and I love them all.

No need to tell me... I'm happy with almost every PSP game I have bought (the only exception being Rengoku, ugh), and that's most of them. After seeing movies for like $7-10 at Fry's, I'm reconsidering the possibility for success of these as well.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[Wilson_6500]

and even We Love Katamari (remember the original, the game that was supposed to rid us of derivative games? It has a sequel).

Katamari did that very nicely. As a game instead of an abstraction, though, it was also very short and had crappy multiplayer. People wanted a sequel, so they made one. This wasn't a sequel looking for an audience.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[holySherm]

just on a side note, katamari was never supposed to have a sequel. The creator never wanted a sequel, but the company that owned the rights to it insisted on making a sequel because they knew they could make it into a cash cow. They even said they would do it without the creator if need be and so he jumped on because he didn't want anyone else touching it. Game publishers simply suck now. Obviously it is a viable business model to just create rehashes of already popular games over and over, but in the long run it just can't be healthy for the industry to never have fresh content. Sims 2 profited from the creativity of the original Sims which also sold a lot of copies in its own right, but if EA didn't take the risk on the original they would've never created the rest of what has probably become the most profitable franchise in gaming next to Mario. I'm just sick of hearing quotes from people like Probst saying they're going to release about 30 games each fiscal quarter and they're looking to make 1 fresh, new game out of those 30. AWESOME! Oh and although FFXII is the twelfth (sp?) iteration of the series, not a single one had reused characters (aside from Cid, a support character) or battle systems. Each game shared the name to use the popularity of the series to make more money, but each game was pretty much a completely new game. I'm excluding the jpop crap that was FFX2. I just hope Kameo is a polished game and does very well so other gaming companies will follow in suit and take more risks.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[generic-man]

OK. From now on I am only buying feature-limited games in the hopes that their publishers will put out incremental upgrades that address the shortcomings in the original. EA is such a bunch of jerks for finishing a game and then asking people to pay for a revised version if they want it.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[ssand]

If you want to consider many of those games sequals, like Perfect Dark Zero or a racing game, you could argue a similar argument for almost anything. A sequal to a racing game provides new vehicles and tracks with a similar feel, similar to some of the rpg lineups out there (Like Final Fantasy). In addition, the games will have to be designed for the new hardware, so they will at least have to work on the engines, if not recreate them for the sequals.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[DeadScreenSky]

Cripe, and people were complaining about the PSP launch. It at least had original stuff: Lumines, Darkstalkers, Untold Legends. Even where there were franchises, we got new stuff (Metal Gear Acid, THUG2:Remix, Wipeout:Pure, Twisted Metal: Head On). The one exception to this was probably Ape Escape, which was basically upgraded graphics.

But don't complain about the PSP and then laud the 360 on its wonderful launch.

Listing a more or less direct port of a Dreamcast title in a decade-old series (Darkstalkers) doesn't help your argument much. But I am pretty sure the GP wasn't even complaining about the PSP unless I seriously missed something. All of the titles listed were Gamecube and PS2 games. Sequels are endemic to the gaming market, especially for console launches. There are no exceptions to this.

And franchise sequels always get new stuff, so I'm not sure how that is some sort of surprising quality.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[Blakey Rat]

Two points:

1) In what way is King Kong unoriginal? Was there a video game based on the original movie that I'm not aware of? Just because it's adapted from a movie script doesn't make it unoriginal... see the Chronicles of Riddick or Spiderman II video games for proof.

2) Though I definitely expect to see half of these games on ebay for $30 right after launch since they're forcing you to buy the games with the systems.

You don't say who "they" is, but Microsoft isn't forcing you to buy games with the system, nor are the vast majority of retailers. Your gripe is with EB Games, GameStop and other game-specific stores that require bundling deals for pre-sales. Don't spread FUD.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[MilenCent]

Well it's about time!

And while you're at it, knock off all that evil!

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[MilenCent]

Yep, I know all about the Katamari creator's objections to making the sequel. Actually, the original game was not a huge moneymaker for Namco, but it was excellent public relations and garnered them a good number of awards for relatively little cost.

Concerning Kameo, it remains to be seen if it'll be any good. The lustre has worn a bit off of Rare from the Banjo-Kazooie, Goldeneye and Blast Corps days.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[ClamIAm]

If you want to consider many of those games sequals [sic] ... you could argue a similar argument for almost anything.

Yes, but then you must address the question of where you draw the line. You could say that Super Mario Brothers was a "sequel" to Pitfall, because both feature little dudes running across a horizontal plane. You could argue that Half-Life is a "sequel" to Doom, because they are both of the FPS genre and have a similar storyline. But these comparisons miss the point that even if a game has similarities to another, it may be a fundamental shift into a much different gameplay experience. SMB was light-years ahead of Pitfall, the same with comparing Half-Life to Doom.

With this said, I don't think that many of the games of the 360 launch contain such a shift, as they are mostly sports games in established "franchises" that cater to people who want to play basically the same thing. They might add some new feature, but it's usually to try and retain their already-established userbase.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[ClamIAm]

1) In what way is King Kong unoriginal? Was there a video game based on the original movie that I'm not aware of? Just because it's adapted from a movie script doesn't make it unoriginal... see the Chronicles of Riddick or Spiderman II video games for proof.

I'm making an assumption here, but as you're both posting opinion on Slashdot, I'm guessing that neither of you have actually played the game (neither of you claim this or deny it). That said, we can look at history for a semi-reliable guide as to what will happen in the future. Historically, movie-based games are crap. Take that for what it is. (yes, I know there are good movie-based games. shut up about it)

You don't say who "they" is, but Microsoft isn't forcing you to buy games with the system, nor are the vast majority of retailers. Your gripe is with EB Games, GameStop and other game-specific stores that require bundling deals for pre-sales. Don't spread FUD.

And you're just as guilty as the OP. You're assuming that he was referencing Microsoft, which he may or may not have been. Assuming this and attacking him is the same as what you claim he was doing.

Re:Holy sequels Batman!

[holySherm]

star fox adventures...I think I returned that in a week. I couldn't take seeing Fox cheer every time he picked up even the most useless of items. You found a penny! WOOOOO!

Titles

[devilsadvoc8]

The XBox racing games are much better than the other consoles. The others could catch up if they stopped focusing on fantasy-type racing. Yes there are normal racing games for the Playstation but the Xbox racing games blow them away IMO.

Call of Duty 2 is a good cornerstone FPS for the 360. It is a proven franchise game that is focused on solid MP gameplay.

Re:Titles

[Grey Ninja]

The GameCube racing games are much better than the other consoles. The others could catch up if they stopped focusing on realistic-type racing. Yes there are fantasy racing games for the Playstation but the GameCube racing games blow them away IMO. It's all a matter of perspective. And for the record, I would rather play Gran Turismo than anything on Xbox, as far as realistic racing is concerned.

Re:Titles

[chicagohousedj]

Chances are you haven't played Forza then.

Re:Titles

[Delphiki]

Uh, I think you missed the point of that article. Some people like Mario Kart style racing, some people like something more like Forza or Gran Turismo. But god forbid people like something other than what you like, right? I mean then what does that say about you if the games you buy aren't the games everyone else buys? Clearly it would bring your manhood into question.

Re:Titles

[MoriaOrc]

Don't get me wrong, Forza is a great game. But GT4 is also great in different ways. And for the record, I've put to much time in on both (30-some% in GT4 and level 30-some in Forza, with plenty of multiplayer in both)

They both look spectacular (Forza does a better job on tracks, while GT4 does a better job on cars). However, as far as single player goes, GT4 is better any day. One of the best things about GT4 is that something from just about every level from "junker car that I wouldn't drive IRL" (and the car I drive was only worth 2k when I bought it a few years ago) to Racing class car. Once you've dont the license tests, which you can take at any time and weren't that hard (except the last one) if you just go for passing (bronze), you can do any race you want if you have a good enough car. Compared to the "unlock shit" that forza does, it's a much better system. I hate not being able to buy basically any super-car until I've gotten to "level 20" or play in the endurance races until "level 30" ... it's an un-needed slowdown for the game.

That said, GT4 completely botched the multiplayer aspect of the game. They essentially made it so you can't use a custom-made car (because driving aids and tires are screwed up), and it looks like something for the PSX. Multiplayer, on the other hand, is where Forza shines. It looks and feels just about as good as the single-player game, and racing against friends is definetly more fun then racing against the computer-bots.

So! Lesson learned (hopefully): even among very similar games, there are differences enough for different people to like different games. Maybe the GP doesn't play multiplayer much because none of their friends like racing games, in which case I would take GT4 any day. (Of course, just as likely its just a little troll at the end of a good point.) And now that I've said to much about not enough.. time to move on.

Re:Titles

[chicagohousedj]

well I do like GT4 and playstation in general and as some schmuck pointed out the "mario cart" type racing games...

I was just mentioning that there was a GT alternative for the xbox without the oh so annoying license tests. That was the only major gripe I had about the game. And unlockable cars that were impossible to unlock.

otherwise great game... and xbox isn't without it's mario cart type games too.. crazy taxi, simpsons, and there are a few others.

Re:Titles

[MoriaOrc]

Fair enough.

I didn't find the license tests too annoying in general (atleast to get bronzes), though there were a few that were pains in the ass to be sure. Having to earn 1mil in order to reach level 25 so I can play in the next level of race that I actually want to was more annoying for me. Still, thats personal preference.

Re:Titles

[ClamIAm]

and xbox isn't without it's mario cart type games too.. crazy taxi, simpsons, and there are a few others.

Crazy Taxi == Mario Kart?!?!?!

WTF are you smoking?

Re:Titles

[Grey Ninja]

So! Lesson learned (hopefully): even among very similar games, there are differences enough for different people to like different games. Maybe the GP doesn't play multiplayer much because none of their friends like racing games, in which case I would take GT4 any day. (Of course, just as likely its just a little troll at the end of a good point.) And now that I've said to much about not enough.. time to move on.

Yeah, you were right. I don't play racing games such as those in multiplayer, as I consider it to be the penultimate in boring. I do play a fair amount of Burnout and Mario Kart in multiplayer though, as I find the experience is just a whole lot better. There's often a huge skill difference between myself and my friends, and realistic type games don't make a good game for that reason. I crush them instantly, which isn't any fun for anyone. In Mario Kart, you use a blue shell, and stand a fighting chance.

Pricing

[Red Flayer]

FTA: "Official price points for games have also been released, and Microsoft Game Studios is cutting gamers a break on their three launch games (Perfect Dark Zero, Project Gotham Racing 3, and Kameo: Elements of Power). MGS-published games will retail for $49.99, and third-party games will sell for $59.99."

I really don't see how this is "cutting gamers a break." This is simply competitive pricing. MS is choosing to set a price that will increase sales on MSG games. Also, how will MS set the price on 3rd-party games? Seems shady to me.

Sure hope there's no retaliation by MS to retailers that want to offer a different price, say, $49.99 for third-party games, because that would be, you know, illegal.

Re:Pricing

[snuf23]

MS does not force the pricing on third party Xbox releases. They give a suggested retail price, but if a developer wants to offer a game for $.50 they can.
And yes it is competitive pricing, and who does that benefit? The consumers. Hopefully we'll see some third parties follow suit. Hell, the GameStop near me is probably going to tack another $5 on the MSRP of these games anyway.

Re:Pricing

[Red Flayer]

"They give a suggested retail price, but if a developer wants to offer a game for $.50 they can."

MS has to be very wary of suggesting a price for games they do not publish... the legality is questionable, and they are still under watch by the FTC.

"And yes it is competitive pricing, and who does that benefit? The consumers."

Sure... in this case, I'd agree with you. Except I don't think this is MS "cutting gamers a break" at all, which was a point of my OP. MS "cutting gamers a break" would be to act outside of their own interests for the benefit of gamers. In this case, MS actions are withinh their own interests... so, they are really cutting themselves a break. The consumer being helped out is secondary.

Also, there is the possibility of predatory pricing -- though I don't think this is even remotely likely, since MS needs 3rd-party developers to try to establish 360 dominance of the console market.

Re:Pricing

[mag46]

I don't think this means that Microsoft is forcing other companies to price their games at $59.99. I do remember articles saying that most games in the coming generation would retail for that amount, just as (most) new games now start at $50. It's not really price fixing, but it is more or less the standard, for whatever reason. Some games (especially from independent companies) retail for less. Alien Hominid I bought new, close to release, for I think $30.

Microsoft is simply trying to not increase the price of their games, and letting other companies move to the new "standard" price, if they choose. Not really "cutting gamers a break," and you do still have to buy a certain number of games with the system, but at least they're not (immediatly) increasing the prices for their own games.

Re:Pricing

[HunterZ]

With inflated game prices like that, you can bet that modchips will be coming out very quickly.

It's also kind of a lackluster lineup, dominated by run-of-the-mill EA sports titles with most of the remainder being PC ports.

As I've probably mentioned before, I'm only looking forward to the 360 launch because I'm thinking of buying an XBox (original, not 360) and I know the price will go down once the 360 is on the shelves.

Re:Pricing

[Fred Or Alive]

In the UK we've got it worse. The current RRP for games is £40 (~$70), although if you exclude the 17.5% VAT then it's about £35 (~$60). Now if the US game prices appear to have risen so the sans-tax prices would be about the same if the US payed $60 for a game.

So therefore, the Xbox 360 games RRPs appear to be £45 (~$80) for Microsoft games, and £50 (~$90) for 3rd party games.

I should point out, if I imported a $60 US game bought for $60, and it got charged by customs (and therefore charged VAT, and a £4 fee to the Royal Mail) it would come to about £45.

Sometimes living in Europe is one big ripoff.

Re:Pricing

[snuf23]

I agree that the phrase "cutting a break" was stupid and incorrect.
I don't think MS is trying to push 3rd party developers out, honestly I hope more of them publish at the $50. I mean the funny thing is I can buy the PC version of Call of Duty 2 for $35 on sale ($40 regular) yet the 360 one will be at least $50. About the only way I can find dicounted console games is if they are used - yet PC games supposedly sell way less copies.

Re:Pricing

[benbean]

Where are you buying your games? Tesco for example routinely has brand new releases for £29.95->£32.95 including VAT. Even the big rip-off shops like GAME sell them for £35. I even saw Far Cry Instincts for the Xbox for twenty quid at GAME last week. Just a matter of shopping around.

Re:Pricing

[great om]

PC games also don't need to pay a console maker for the right to play on a computer

Re:Pricing

[Red Flayer]

"I mean the funny thing is I can buy the PC version of Call of Duty 2 for $35 on sale ($40 regular) yet the 360 one will be at least $50."

Aside from console licensing, which another person pointed out (and is the method by which MS & Sony attempt to recoup their losses on console sales & end up with a profit), there is the issue of demand. I'm not sure of units sold for CoD2 PC vs Console, but for new-release high-demand games without a console port (WoW, I'm looking at you) prices seem to be a bit higher than $40.

Come to think of it, WoW is not a good example, since game purchase is not the primary source of revenue. But Deus Ex etc sold for ~$50 at release.

Re:Pricing

[holySherm]

I liked hearing about how one of the best anti-modchip features the xbox360 team came up with was just making the 360's case screwless so it was more difficult to dismantle. I'll probably pick up a 360 in about 6 months or so when the price will hopefully go down.

Re:Pricing

[Fred Or Alive]

Yes, but surely the US shops will also have similar discounts. From a baseline price that's way lower than ours...

Re:Pricing

[Gothic_Walrus]

Also, how will MS set the price on 3rd-party games? Seems shady to me.

Nintendo did the same with the Game Boy Advance at launch, and did so by (if I remember this correctly) making the licenses expensive to the point where other developers had to have a higher MSRP to make a profit.

Of course, that didn't last for very long, and I doubt it will here.

Re:Pricing

[Blakey Rat]

"Inflated" in what way? The game industry has been selling games at $50 for years, and years, and years, despite inflation. If anything, selling games at $60 is simply the price of games settling where it belongs instead of being artificially low.

Heck, if you counted inflation, I'd bet $60 is still cheap considering the $50 games we were buying in 1995.

Re:Pricing

[benbean]

Not really... it's nigh on impossible to get anything other than full retail of $49.99 for AAA releases anywhere in my experience.

In the interests of full disclosure, I'm a Brit but lived in the US for 10 years until last year.

Re:Pricing

[snuf23]

World of Warcraft did get stuck at the $50 mark for quite awhile. Partially I believe to demand outstripping the actual number of copies available. The first time I tried to buy it, it was sold out. It remained sold out for a few weeks during the period when Blizzard was having trouble with realm stability do to the amount of players coming on.
While mainstream shops such as GameStop gouges PC and console gamers alike, other stores (especially online) will usually have the games in the $40 range even just after release.
I am assuming the payout to the console makers as you noted effectively gets rid of any "leeway" in cost that could be used for a sale price.

Re:Pricing

[Generic Guy]

I'm only looking forward to the 360 launch because I'm thinking of buying an XBox (original, not 360) and I know the price will go down

You might want to rethink that strategy. I just bought a second Xbox (original) because when softmodded they make nice XBMC sets (i.e. networked media players) and nice emulators for all the great older-generation games. [Be sure to pick up an Action Replay kit for your softmod, and possibly a large hard drive.]

With the huge losses Microsoft has taken with the first Xbox - word is they still lose money on every console sale - I wouldn't expect a price reduction. More likely in typical Microsoft style they'll simply end-of-life the original Xbox, most likely around new years.

Re:Pricing

[ClamIAm]

Sure hope there's no retaliation by MS to retailers that want to offer a different price, say, $49.99 for third-party games, because that would be, you know, illegal.

Not that that's ever stopped them before...

PS: YES, I know they aren't doing this.

Re:Pricing

[king-manic]

With inflated game prices like that, you can bet that modchips will be coming out very quickly.

It's also kind of a lackluster lineup, dominated by run-of-the-mill EA sports titles with most of the remainder being PC ports.

As I've probably mentioned before, I'm only looking forward to the 360 launch because I'm thinking of buying an XBox (original, not 360) and I know the price will go down once the 360 is on the shelves.

they will, but sony's HD DVD system will keep it impractical for at least 2-3 years.

Re:Pricing

[Red Flayer]

Well, brick-and-mortar overhead also accounts for some of that. The thing is, millions of people are willing to ay 50 or 60 bucks for a new game... so the price seems pretty fair. Me, I just wait to get it used, or wait until it hits the 'classics' stage and I can pick it up for $20.

Re:Pricing

[HunterZ]

they will, but sony's HD DVD system will keep it impractical for at least 2-3 years.

I was talking about the XBox 360, not the PS3. Also, remember when the XBox and PS2 came out with DVD drives? Most games didn't take up more space than a CD could hold, and I heard that many PS2 games were "ripped" (had movies and other stuff removed by pirates to reduce game size) to make them fit. Even the Gamecube's supposedly radically different disc was cracked eventually. I fully expect the same to happen with the next generation of consoles.

Re:Pricing

[HunterZ]

It's not the manufacturer that mandates a price reduction. Once Microsoft releases the XBox 360, stores will want to offload XBoxes to free up shelf space (in anticipation of the XBox becoming a less saleable item than other products) and make money on people who want a console but can't afford the 360's price tag.

Re:Pricing

[king-manic]

I was talking about the XBox 360, not the PS3. Also, remember when the XBox and PS2 came out with DVD drives? Most games didn't take up more space than a CD could hold, and I heard that many PS2 games were "ripped" (had movies and other stuff removed by pirates to reduce game size) to make them fit. Even the Gamecube's supposedly radically different disc was cracked eventually. I fully expect the same to happen with the next generation of consoles.

The GC pirating methods are exstremely clumsy, the data is streamed in through the data port in the back. This means very very few people pirate Gc games exept hobbiest. No commerical pirating is available.

As for PS2, some of the games weren't actually DVD. A few select games were plain old CD's (in the first generation). And thus a mod chip was all you needed then you copied it onto a CD. As for hacked bins. Again it wouldn't be a common thing. The work required isn't that big but DVD burners came out a year later and the window closed on such products. It was never wide spread.

Re:Pricing

[HunterZ]

The GC pirating methods are exstremely clumsy, the data is streamed in through the data port in the back. This means very very few people pirate Gc games exept hobbiest. No commerical pirating is available.

They now have GC modchips and you can replace the case with one that lets you insert standard-sized DVDs (which the GC drive is apparently capable of reading without modification).

Re:Pricing

[king-manic]

They now have GC modchips and you can replace the case with one that lets you insert standard-sized DVDs (which the GC drive is apparently capable of reading without modification).

The GC disks were basically a mini-DVD. But their design choice did keep the pirates away. IT's still nto common to have modded GC While Modded Xbox's and Modded PS2's are very very common.

Re:Pricing

[HunterZ]

That's all true, although I believe GC modding would have been more widespread if the modchips had come out sooner. Remember that PS2 modchips came out way before DVD burners were available, and pirates simply made those ugly CD-sized rips instead of waiting. I'm sure the same would have happened with the GameCube had things progressed faster.

My guess is that the Phantasy Star Online exploit was used to aid in reverse-engineering the GC enough to design a modchip.

Is anyone going to buy Madden?

[hal2814]

It's halfway through the regular season! Madden 06 is dropping in price for the other consoles. Do they really expect to sell a lot of copies for the 360? I imagine anyone who really wanted Madden 06 already bought it for their current system. Generally, the only potential purchasers who don't buy it by the beginning of the season are waiting because they expect to pick it up cheap later on. I could understand the decision to put out Madden 64 midseason because there was no current year (98?) for the SNES and Madden 64 did legitimately add something the other systems (Saturn and Playstation) didn't have (3D instead of sprite-based). I don't see the 360 version of Madden 06 to be so far above the previous generation's version to merit the purchase.

Re:Is anyone going to buy Madden?

[Otter]

It's halfway through the regular season!

This is the 2006 Midseason edition, where the game consists mostly of interminable yammering about "T.O." with occasional mentions of a football game that seems to be going on in the background. Also the Pats defense has been updated to be Tedy Bruschi and 10 guys they found playing touch football in the park.

Re:Is anyone going to buy Madden?

[hal2814]

"Also the Pats defense has been updated to be Tedy Bruschi and 10 guys they found playing touch football in the park." That's all they ever were. They're just starting to play like it now.

Re:Is anyone going to buy Madden?

[Babbster]

I don't think you'd want to say that to the faces of Mike Vrabel, Willie McGinest and Richard Seymour. RS, in particular, might be injured now but he was a huge part of the Patriots' defense prior to this season.

Now, if we're talking secondary then, yes, apart from Rodney Harrison it's been a mess for quite a while.

Re:Is anyone going to buy Madden?

[HarvardAce]

I specifically didn't purchase Madden '06 this year for the XBox for two reasons:
1) I was too busy playing WoW so I didn't mind waiting until November so I could get it for the XBox360.
2) I don't care whether the NFL is actually in season while I'm playing an NFL game. Just like I'll play a baseball game during the winter, or a hockey game in the summer (although the hockey season lasts so late sometimes it feels like summer before it's over).
Additionally, for my patience, I'll have the option of turning off the QB Vision "feature." Having not played the game yet, I don't know if I'll like it or not, but based on the reactions I read, it'll probably be a nice option to be able to play without it.

Re:Is anyone going to buy Madden?

[hal2814]

The point I was making isn't that they are bad players. I was merely saying they came out of nowhere (like the Pats just found them in the park or something). RS, in particular, has the highest college pedigree of the ones I've looked up but even he came from a perinneal 3 or 4 loss Georgia team. Last year, he anchored the AFC defensive line in the Pro Bowl. I blame the 3-loss seasons on Georgia's former coach Jim Donnan more than anything else since at least 2 of his classmates were lined up with him on the starting AFC defensive roster (Champ Bailey and Marcus Stroud) but that's beside the point. Looking at where this defense came from, they should be mediocre at best. Now they're actually playing mediocre football.

Re:Is anyone going to buy Madden?

[hal2814]

Can you not turn off QB Vision in some versions of Madden 06? I have the option to turn it off on the GC version. Personally, I keep it on because it's the first "innovation" I've seen Madden come up with in a long time that makes the game both more realistic and more fun. If you want to see something interesting, play with your favorite team for a while and then switch to one of Don Meredith's Cowboys teams (most of the 60's teams). His QB Vision is enormous.

I'd have to wager that you're in the minority on when you play NFL games. It seems to me that there's a big rush to play during the beginning of the season and then a somewhat lesser rush to play during mid-summer. I tend to play the games all year round myself, but I know a lot of friends (especially just after the end of the season) who want nothing to do with Madden. I guess they're just tired of football at that point.

Re:Is anyone going to buy Madden?

[saintlupus]

...and the commentators, rather than call the game, spend all their time talking about how Tedy Bruschi is a True American Hero and an inspiration to us all. And Joe Theismann spends the whole game writing "Joseph Bruschi" on his notebook in his very best cursive handwriting.

[/Angry Bills Fan]

--saint

They're LAUNCH titles.

[Winterblink]

I don't know what some of you were expecting. What, you think the XBox1 or the PS2 had games like Ico, Halo, Shadow of the Colossus, etc. at launch? Nope. The first batch of games are always basically gen1 games with a bit of a facelift.

Give it time. Give BOTH consoles time. The truly innovative games are rarely seen on day one.

Re:They're LAUNCH titles.

[zuba_inverse]

I dunno... PS2 had SSX, which is still among the best snowboarding games out there, and, at launchtime of the PS2, it was quite "fresh". Perhaps one of these 360 games will end up similar to that, but it sure isn't going to be a yearly update of a sports game. Is there a reason they don't just release a game and update the player stats on a yearly basis?

Re:They're LAUNCH titles.

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I checked, there were THREE consoles coming up. There's no need to ignore the PS3.

Re:They're LAUNCH titles.

[Fred Or Alive]

Erm, Halo WAS an Xbox launch title. And Super Mario 64 is often praised to high heavens (but it was the last console of it's generation to launch).

But I agree, it's pretty rare for a truely original game to appear at launch. I kinda doubt many of the games are really destined to become long lasting classics. I'm kinda "meh" on most of them, but I do think Project Gotham 3 is certainley going to be solid (I loved PGR2), and Kameo sounds interesting. But I'm not that sure about say, Yet Another FPS, or Sports Game 2006 are going to appeal to me personally. But I'm mostly going by the titles, I don't really know enough about the games to make much of a judgement.

Not that I can afford an Xbox 360 at launch anyway, by the time I can afford it there will probably be a better selection of games. (If I choose the get an Xbox 360 of course).

Re:They're LAUNCH titles.

[mrgreen4242]

Uh, Halo was an Xbox launch title. It was THE Xbox launch title. Aside from PGR1 it was pretty much the only game worth buying from the XBox launch, as I recall. Also, I think you meant to say give ALL THREE consoles time. People who act like this is a two horse race (and presumably discount Nintendo as a non-player) are in for a suprise, I think. Unless you mean to say give them both a chance to see which one gets to sit next the Revolution everyone buys for the unique first party games?

Re:They're LAUNCH titles.

[Anonymous Coward]

it was pretty much the only game worth buying from the XBox launch ... for some definition of 'worth'.

Re:They're LAUNCH titles.

[Winterblink]

My bad about the Halo thing. But yeah, I'm not marginalizing the Revo at all. In fact, I agree with your final statement entirely. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what kind of showing they'll have, especially how developers use the new controller style. Personally I don't think the industry can support two consoles that are basically just more of the same that's out currently, except with better graphics. A lot of the genres are tired.

Re:They're LAUNCH titles.

[Jarlsberg]

I dunno... PS2 had SSX, which is still among the best snowboarding games out there, and, at launchtime of the PS2, it was quite "fresh". Perhaps one of these 360 games will end up similar to that, but it sure isn't going to be a yearly update of a sports game. Is there a reason they don't just release a game and update the player stats on a yearly basis?

Yes.

Ummm, Halo WAS a launch title.

[Traegorn]

Halo was a launch title for the first XBox. *cough*

Given people what they want

[guybrush876]

I sorry to say to those of you complaining about originality, or the lack of, but Microsoft is given the people what they want. What are consistently over the years the biggest titles for consoles? Sports Who is the biggest in that genre? EA. so the best selling tittles are assured, granted they are the same versions that came out to Xbox an PS2 on better graphics, but they do that every year so no difference here. The biggest success on XBox? Halo. Halo is missing and for a good cause, Halo 3 has to bee very good so no way it could be a launch title, but 3 FPS hit the market one exclusive. Driving is also popular so also makes the cut with 3 games. Now that leaves Kameo with the promise of some difference, and also Condemned: Criminal Origins which is from Monolith and looks pretty good. So I would say this is a good lineup and looking at the lineup of past consoles presented in earlier article it look to be one of the best. But only time will tell if that's true.

Disclaimer: Don't own an XBox, and I'm not buying a XBox360 for the foreseeable future.

spoiled youth

[chicagohousedj]

I see this in every aspect of society today. Youth complaining about everything under the sun and not just enjoying what they have. I remember when games like galaga, frogger, and pacman would keep kids and adults entertained for hours. Hell I can still play pacman for hours. I dont want innovation in something I am paying buku bucks for. I want solid games. Even rehashed. If it was good the first time they can probably make a solid sequel to it. Look at Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, Mega Man, Pac Man, Metal Gear, and Ultima... all games built over and over again on solid gameplay and storyline. A game is meant to entertain. Not take over your life. I think the launch titles look excellent. A little bit of something for everyone. All of them built on solid foundations. Now lets look at "innovative" games. Tetris... extremely innovative for it's time. Do you still play it now? Would you still pay for it now? didn't think so... I want a game that keeps me occupied for the time I want to put into it. Be it a little or a lot. And overall from a corporate point of view.. this is not a good thing. They want a recurring investment. Something that they can recapitalize on. THIS is why they are there. Not to make every little whiny kid happy with inoovative design and super deep multi novel length stories... they are there to do one thing. MAKE MONEY. If you happen to get appeased in the meantime, great. but learn that you are the minority. And "idiot america" is the majority. They cater to the majority. And the majority like things prechewed and simplistic and reliably similar to what they are familiar with. I want fun. I want something that is still just as fun if i want to put a little or a lot of time in with it. I want something I can jump right in where the learning curve is minimal. My overall point is that this lineup looks great. And just enjoy what you have instead of complaining about it all the time. Especially when complaining about nit picky little details. It takes more energy to complain and bitch about something than it does to enjoy something. Plus it's a futile effort. Spend time enjoying what is there instead of complaining about what isn't and you'll find that you lead a much happier life.

Re:spoiled youth

[MBraynard]

Spend time enjoying what is there instead of complaining about what isn't and you'll find that you lead a much happier life.

So no complaining about a lack of paragraph tags?

Re:spoiled youth

[chicagohousedj]

Zing...

sorry I'm not used to writing in HTML anymore. All the boards I am on use board software that doesn't require them by default but does accept them.

Re:spoiled youth

[Blakey Rat]

If you set the entry mode to "plain old text" it'll automatically insert paragraphs, and it still copes with any HTML tags you might want to add. But seriously, yeah, at the very least use the preview button and try reading your own post. I'm not ashamed to admit that I didn't read past the first sentence of that cluttered block of text.

Look, a new paragraph.

Re:spoiled youth

[MBraynard]

I have to admit, though, it did fit the character of the original post not to use the tags.

You hear a cranky old guy complaining about young people, and to magnify how cranky and old he is, he does not know how to use basic html tags.

It read like the emails I get from my grandmother who uses WebTV.

Re:spoiled youth

[ClamIAm]

Congratulations sir, I can't tell if you're trolling or not!

No Wonder They Are Trying To Manufacture A Sellout

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeech.

I guess if you are a diehard Sony/Nintendo hater you could stomach a list of games like this one, but the rest of the console world?

The two big 'exclusive' Rare titles are getting slammed. Kameo look eh. And PDZ look like crap.

Sports games. What's the point. Just buy them on your current system. The 360 version don't really look any better(except in bogus highrez marketing renders)

And the worst are the pc games. This is the first time a console has graphics that aren't any better than current mid to high end pcs. Forget about buying a new video card for your pc - it probably already looks as the weak 360 games.

The 360 looks like it has turned out to be nothing more than somewhat higher rez Xbox graphics but WITH JAGGIES.

Final worldwide 360 installed base numbers: 12 million

No Sony or Nintendo owner would even think about wasting their money on a 360.

Take the 20 million current Xbox owners and subtract off the huge number of people who bought one on the claim that it was the most powerful system and all the people who don't want to spend another four years of nothing but Halo and mediocre crap. The Xbox really seems like it has become the dumping grounds for has been and worthless developers.

No originality here

[c0d3h4x0r]

Wow... how many of these are actually not sequels or games based on movies? I rest my case.

Re:No originality here

[Gulthek]

What's your case? What system do you think had a stellar launch/lineup?

Remember how many games the SNES opened with? The N64? the Playstation?

Re:No originality here

[c0d3h4x0r]

My case is that there's little or no originality in any of the launch titles. They're all rehashes of the same old shit, just with fancier graphics. How boring.

It's not about the number of games a console launches with -- it's about the originality of the launch titles. Unless a new console hits the market with original titles that can't be had on any other platform, there's little reason for seasoned gamers to take much interest, especially when the mere "realism" aspect of the graphics and sound can be attained much better by a cutting-edge PC.

Re:No originality here

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think we have seen any real originality within games since the N64 era when we made the jump to 3D. This generation (NGC, PS2 and Xbox) were basically machines with more power, more graphics and better physics etc. PS3 and Xbox360 are just the same with better graphics. The only company which has tried this gen is Nintendo with the Revolution. (Focusing more on gamplay than graphics) though I still think we can be more inventive with games, than being used as simple pass time entertainment.

Re:No originality here

[c0d3h4x0r]

Example: The Sega Genesis wouldn't have had its glory days if Sonic the Hedgehog hadn't been released at the time it was exclusively for the Genesis. No other system had a comparable game during that time.

Example: The 8-bit NES wouldn't have had its glory days over the Sega Master System if Super Mario Brothers hadn't been available exclusively for NES. No other system had a comparable game at the time.

Re:No originality here

[Blakey Rat]

How do you know Kameo isn't that title? How can you possibly predict the influence of the game before it's even released?

Re:No originality here

[GreenHell]

Sonic the Hedgehog wasn't a launch title though. Sonic the Hedgehog was released in 1991, while the Mega Drive/Genesis was released in 1988 ('89 in N. America, '90 in Europe).

While I can't remember any of the other launch titles, the original pack-in title with the Genesis was Altered Beast—an arcade port.

Re:No originality here

[Gulthek]

Okkaay. Nintendo 64 launched with Mario 64 and a new Pilotwings. That's it! Two games, both sequels.

Dreamcast's BIG launch title was Soul Calibur, the sequel to Soul Edge.

XBox's BIG launch title: Halo. You can't get more rehashy than a new FPS.

NES: Super Mario Brothers. Who hadn't already been playing Mario in the Donkey Kong game. The only thing this added was length and ability to sidescroll the screen.

SNES: Super Mario World. Super Mario Brothers with fancier graphics.

Gameboy: Tetris. The game that had already been played by millions.

New systems want to make money *fast* so they make games that will appeal to the existing demographic: i.e. the chance to see your favorite games turned up to eleven.

Inaccurate on both counts.

[nobodyman]

The N64 comparison isn't a good one for a few reasons:

• The N64 was launched with only *2 games*: Mario 64 and Pilotwings 64.
• Both games were sequels
• While they were both very good games, neither was 'new': in spite of your claim, there were in fact 3D platformers and flight sims on the Saturn and/or the PS1 before the N64 launched.

I wont comment on the quality of the line up because I haven't played any of the games, and I wont even speculate as to whether the 360 will succeed in the long run. However, there's simply no getting around the fact beating your competitors to market by 6-12 months with 18 launch titles is very impressive.

Re:Inaccurate on both counts.

[Thrakkerzog]

I would hardly call Mario 64 a sequel. What was it a sequel of?

Re:Inaccurate on both counts.

[holySherm]

didn't the saturn beat its competitors to market with a fair enough launch and get romped. Didn't the dreamcast too? (at least in the US and EU) Granted, this is a nice launch of fair enough games, I'd just like to see some more NEW games to show off the NEW hardware, but really calling the hardware new is even somewhat of a stretch since it is near identical to its predecessors with the exception of upgraded graphics. The controller, multiplayer, and extra features such as HD, mem cards, expansion slots, and networking are all near identical to previous hardware iterations. In addition to that they don't make it very widely known that the core system won't even be able to play old XBOX games since it has no HD and that not even all games are supported on the new system. NES was a huge leap forward in controls and graphics, SNES created a more ergonomic controller, PSOne/N64 were the first systems to incorporate 3D graphics and revamp controllers another time introducing analog d-pads. PS2/xbox gen didn't bring in much new and hopefully the Revolution will do well so publishers will be rewarded for creative, new games and systems.

Re:Inaccurate on both counts.

[TriezGamer]

The answer is obvious, isn't it? Mario 63. Jeez, you people and your terrible critical thinking skills ...

Re:Inaccurate on both counts.

[ClamIAm]

Dude, what the hell is your point? First you talk about Sega's two final systems and how they were both released early and failed (and BTW, the Saturn survived in Japan). You don't talk about perhaps *WHY* this was.

You then state you want "NEW" games to show off the "NEW" hardware. Well, you answered your own question. You state that the 360 is basically a graphical update of the Xbox. What are the (majority of the) launch titles for the 360? Graphical updates of games that were on previous systems.

You then go through a (not entirely accurate) console history back to the NES. Why is this here? There is really no undersatanding what you want to "prove" or discuss.

Re:Inaccurate on both counts.

[nobodyman]

What was it a sequel of?

You're kidding, right? More Mario. More Goombas. More Stomping. The gameplay is fresh, but it's clearly a sequel.

very little originality

[xenomouse]

The only games listed above that didn't appear to be tied to an existing property or an existing game franchise were Kameo and Gun. I know it has been more noticeable recently in the current game market, but I worry that the next generation consoles (with their incredibly high budget games) will solidify the publishers' aversion to original titles. There is some truth to the saying, "if it's not broken, don't bother fixing it." But there is also truth in, "familiarity breeds contempt."

Come to think of it, it seems the game industry is suffering from the same ailment as all the other entertainment industries.

Re:very little originality

[Anonymous Coward]

Come to think of it, it seems the game industry is suffering from the same ailment as all the other entertainment industries.

There is a semi-universal truth in all entertainment industries; as 'developmental' costs increase the originality of the product decreases. Think of all of the Big Budget blockbusters (Alexander, Troy, etc.) that all, essentially, use the same formula with varying success (mostly producing crap). What eventually happens is a technology comes along (digital camera's, PC's that can produce studio quality recordings, etc.) that will allow the 'little guy' to compete by simply being more creative and unique; and the cycle starts over again.

Re:very little originality

[mixrecords]

Come to think of it, it seems the game industry is suffering from the same ailment as all the other entertainment industries.

I agree completely. It seems like every summer "blockbuster" is another movie from the '60s remade with crappier actors and better FX. This generation of artists seems to be lacking inspiration and vision beyond making the quick buck.

Re:very little originality

[xenomouse]

This generation of artists seems to be lacking inspiration and vision beyond making the quick buck.

Actually, i believe the problem isn't with the artists, but with the bean-counters and decision-makers.

Re:very little originality

[ClamIAm]

Just because a game is based on an established property doesn't mean it can't be "original". Many game franchises have reinvented themselves with radical new gameplay (Mario 64 and Metroid Prime spring to mind), and some movie-based games have been very good. That said, sequels are more often than not crappy cash-in attempts.

Come to think of it, it seems the game industry is suffering from the same ailment as all the other entertainment industries.

Well, the game industry is big business now. To the CEO of a big company like EA, what sounds like a better business plan: build a roster of games that is based on things that we know sell pretty well already and are profitable enough to keep their shareholders happy, or go for something new that is unproven and could crash horribly? You'd think that with all the cash cow games padding thier bottom line, publishers would be trying to expand the market in new directions. Unfortunately, the opposite seems to be happening, with all the B-releases attempting to gain market share from the other huge publishers.

maybe...

[HanClinto]

Well maybe if you were wielding a gom jabbar...

Re:maybe...

[Cheapy]

Didn't you used to be on #nethack?

disgusting apologist

[Wilson_6500]

Oh, how nice. A corporate apologist acting in a twisted "save the children from themselves" guise.

A video game isn't a breakfast cereal. It's not something you put into your mind every day because you need it to survive. It's not a nutrient and it's not a consumer item. It isn't a medium where you should just "be happy" with whatever crap the game designers want to turn out. Of course it's all about money--what isn't? More importantly, it's about art. Video games have become--rather, they MUST become a legitimate creative outlet if they're going to hang on to what's made them unique and so memorable. Tetris wouldn't have been fun if it wasn't an engaging puzzle. The same damn shtick over and over again isn't fun, it isn't creative, it doesn't make us a better humanity--it's just breakfast cereal.

It's not about paying for Tetris again and again. It's not about being "just entertained enough." It's _not about spending money, that just has to happen to keep things rolling along._ It's about advancing humanity through the unlikely artistic and social medium of video games. Because of the necessity of wrapping everything in corporate culture, that just can't happen, and it's very sad. Movies, music, video games--books will be next. Then it'll be painting, dance, theater. "Sponsored by PepsiCo" will start appearing on all easels. I'm predicting the Creative Downfall of Humanity right here and now.

Christ, I swear one of these days I'm going to write that novel, the one where people eat their chicken-flavored cereal three times every day and are _happy_ because they don't have to _worry_ about "not enjoying the flavor" or "making a choice." A blueberry will be introduced into this culture and will tear it to ribbons.

Re:disgusting apologist

[chicagohousedj]

If you think that video games contributes something great to the fabric of society I feel very sorry for you because that means you really need to turn the video games off and take a walk around outside and interact with some people. It's a freakin video game... not a deep inspirational thought outlet.. and I wouldn't want it to be. I like my cereal to be cereal... and my video games to be video games. If I want a deep thought outlet I'll go read some great literature or walk through a museum. besides what's wrong with cereal... just because we have oatmeal doesn't make cereal automatically bad... in fact it's just as good as it's ever been. i.e. I would kill for a new side scrolling video game ala mega man...

Re:disgusting apologist

[willfe]

It's funny you should mention that; I recall Pleasantville being a pretty good take on just that very notion -- two people introduce change into a culture that's entirely content to exist exactly as it is. People are afraid of color (not as in "black people," but actual colors, like "blue," "green," "orange," or any color that isn't black, white, or a shade of gray). People are afraid of roads that actually go somewhere instead of just running in a big circle around town. A guy gets really freaked out when coming home and calling "honey, I'm home!" doesn't trigger the events he's used to (wife comes in from kitchen, dinner's almost ready, etc.).

Your point is spot-on, though. People seem to thumb their noses these days at anything that isn't from the cookie-cutter game vendors. I'm an avid Microsoft-avoiding citizen (not consumer, bleh); I don't like their business practices and many of their products are junk. I will give the Xbox 360 its proper nod -- it looks like a competent piece of hardware. The games being demoed for it at the local Walmart are very impressive visually (Kameo impressed me a lot in more than just the visuals), but for the most part the games look to be yet more sports franchise updates and sequels. I still won't buy a 360 for assorted reasons:

• It's too expensive. $400 for a console with a hard disk? C'mon, guys, for $320 I built a damned fast general-purpose PC (complete with wireless keyboard/mouse) for my parents a few weeks ago. Sure, a nice video card will drive up the price, but not much.
• There ain't enough games I like. Kameo looks fun. The rest don't. Where are the RPGs? Where are the adventure titles? Where's a fighter title in the bunch (after all, a boobies fix is always good; I must admit I was always more, um, "tittilated" by Soul Calibur's Taki and Sophitia than by the DOA girls though ;)? Give me a Castlevania game I can be sucked into for 40+ hours by its huge world and myriad secrets to unlock. Give me a compelling sci-fi story that lets me command a massive battle fleet from the command deck of a capital ship, that doesn't involve aliens (unless you've got a better reason than "we need an enemy to fight" to include them). Give me a world to make my own as I follow your story (Animal Crossing was a spiffy idea, for instance).
• It's a Microsoft product. Yup, I'm one of those. Money-where-my-mouth-is and that sort of thing. I despise the company's strongarm tactics, anti-competitive practices, and monopolistic behavior. I think most of their products are worthless and buggy, and a few of them (Windows, anyone?) are actively destructive to the world of information technology (they've produced at least two generations of "average people" with very poor computing "habits" and expectations). One good piece of technology doesn't make up for a lifetime of bad products. If the Xbox 360's ultimate goal was to make Microsoft lots of money by being the best game system out there, it might get more consideration from me. But instead, their goal with it is to make lots of money with it while they crush their competition with marketing and FUD. And yeah, I'm annoyed with Sony right now, too, which makes me sad given how interested I am in Cell and what they can coax out of it for the PS3. I'd have bought a PS3 if they weren't MPAA/RIAA members, putting out DRMed crap, or putting out rootkits.

Now they'll be able to fix 1) and 2) there in the next few years. I'm sure at least some very compelling games (compelling to me, that is) will be produced for the Xbox 360 in the coming years. I know it won't cling to its $400 price tag for more than a year, and by year four of its life I'm sure I'll find them on the shelves at Target and Walmart for $200 or less. Item 3) won't ever be fixed, but that just means that I'll have to wait for the Xbox 360 to reach the end of its lifecycle, where I can go snarf a used cons

Do they think this will do well in Japan?

[Necromutant]

I thought that MS was going to try and win over some gamers in Japan this time around... that lineup for launch will likely only perpetuate their being the but of jokes in Japan as none of that is going to sell a system or get people excited there.

much less disgusting apologist

[Wilson_6500]

That's part of my point. It doesn't need to be deep and thought-provoking, necessarily (though it helps) to be an artistic outlet.

When was the last time an new _means of artistic expression_ was brought into the world? They can be significant--they can tell a story or communicate some idea, could hold their own blow for blow if they didn't require so great of an investment of money. Video games have the potential to become the next "book," the next "painting," the next "interpretive dance." They aren't there. Not by far. They could be.

Illustrative artists were supported by patrons once, right? Guys who paid them to paint what they wanted to have painted, I mean. Same thing today, only instead of the whims of some old guy, it's the whims of America's--really, the world's "consumers" as interpreted by sales numbers and people who're paid too much to do too little. I hate that term--"consumer"--and think it's an insult to apply, but really that's what they call us--what we are. We're consuming video games. What if books were becoming like this? What if... Wait, too late. Where's our generation's Dumas? Where's our Paton? Our Faulkner? Hell, our Bradbury? Hell, where's our Shatner? I _kinda liked_ Tekwar--I'm off subject, though.

Did anyone here play Deadlock? Remember how you could build an "art complex" (or something) that _manufactured_ art, which was used as a morale-boosting _resource?_ I laughed and made smug comments to my friends when I saw that one, but that's what's happening to video games these days. Games are approaching the point where they're being churned out, purchased, and _consumed._ Market demands more Halo--make sequels, make money. Who cares if it's buggy, badly balanced, and rather crappy in the storyline? Who cares? If you make it, they'll buy it. They'll complain, or they won't, but they'll buy it. Brand new console--same old crap--flashier graphics--$60 a game plus incidentals, no soul included, story and plot sold separately.

I want to wake up in a world where Russian folk music could take my neighborhood by storm without some pop singer to translate it. One where any crazy guy with a good idea can get a few airings of some nutcase TV show. A place where textbooks are purchased based on their factual content instead of price or contractual obligations--but I'm getting off subject again.

Who cares.

[Anonymous Coward]

Europe ~10 Trillion USD in GDP, North America the same (of course it can very widely.) Japan about 3 trillion. Seriously, if Sega found a partner to bring their good games into the big markets or figured out a way to do it themselves, they would have crushed Sony with the Dreamcast. You know what sells a $50 dollar game every year? Sports games. FIFA, NFL, NBA, soon Blitz the League. Consequently, those games have come a long way. People who love sports love sports. They buy $300 jerseys, they buy HD TVs, they buy season tickets, and now they'll buy xbox 360s. Go watch your final fantesy pick a path movie and talk about how awesome it is while you show off your binary watch. I'm sure the PS2 will corner the lucrative idol girl morphing picture game market again, perhaps branching out into "loose socks" titles. We can only hope.

Maybe I've been playing MMORPGs too long...

[patonw]

but are any of those a "killer app" for the 360 like Halo was for the original?