The Depth of the 360

Kotaku has a long day's worth of hands-on information about the Xbox 360. Information covers packaging, hookup, the Interoperability, Multimedia, and Live interfaces. They also have hands-on impressions of some of the launch titles, including Kameo, PGR3, Amped, and NBA 2K6. From the hookup article: "I was surprised at how much I like the new controller. The design feels lighter that current gen stuff and the minor tweaks to the shape really help make holding it a pleasure. The button layout is mostly the same as with the xbox controllers with one major exception. The black and white buttons, always a pain in the ass to find in the middle of intense Xbox games, have been converted into two small rectangles located over the triggers, making them much more intuitive to use."

Comments

Zonk effect.

[tprime]

Screw the /. effect... With the rate that Zonk is posting these articles, none of the sites will have the opportunity to be crushed with the traffic. We should call it the Zonk effect; articles showing up so fast on the main page that YOU, can't keep up before they roll off the bottom.

In his defense against the above posting about Microsoft paying for the exposure. Of the 7 articles posted today, only 3 are about the 360. For a day that the first reviews of the system, LIVE and games are being posted, I think that is a pretty modest number.

Re:Zonk effect.

[rAiNsT0rm]

I've tired of being Zonked some time ago, but apparently someone thinks this is a good direction for /. - I'm not sure who, or even if there is anyone actually steering the direction and content of /. anymore. Ugh, but oh well.

Generally NEWS encompasses a few NEW items each time, so far we have just had links to review sites all covering the SAME stuff in exactly the SAME manner. That is the problem. Give me a few angles, give me some perspective, some insight... as it stands we have three identical stories about identical reviews two days in a row.

Have to Agree

[Shadow Wrought]

I tried one of the 360 controllers at a local Game Crazy and, I have to say, they were the most comfortable controllers I've used. I'm not a big fan of MS, or the XBox, but props to them (or whoever they hired) for the design.

Re:Have to Agree

[RoadDoggFL]

They're compatible with PC games, too.

Not to suggest you give up the mouse and keyboard... but it's an idea if anybody still plays platformers or sports games on the PC anymore.

Re:Have to Agree

[Shadow Wrought]

Ia ctually find controllers much more comfortable to use than mouse and keyboard. So that's very good news.

Re:Have to Agree

[Anonymous Coward]

The sides and bottom are less ergonomic than controllers that have bona fide elongated grips. I don't have huge hands, so I can only imagine how uncomfortable that must feel for those that do.

They also fell for the trap that Nintendo didn't: putting buttons in the L1 & R1 position and triggers in the L2 and R2 position. Where do the index fingers go by default? Do the middle fingers rest on the triggers? I still prefer the GameCube's triggers much, much more. Same with the feel of the left analog stick.

The d-pad is an improvement over the Xbox 1.0 d-pad, but I still don't like its position and feel compared to that of the Saturn controller (best circular d-pad around). It feels cheap and clicky, and a little too floaty for a general purpose pad, even worse than the d-pads on Logitech's recent PS2-alike controllers. I expect these to be troublesome parts in the future for heavy users.

Oh, and the component cables look and feel so cheap (like what you'd expect $1.99 Chinese-designed low-gauge RCA cable and plugs to look like). The DVD remote looks and feels cheap too, especially with the tacky Windows logo on cardboard under the clear plastic button, and of course the ubiquitous funny-looking "jewel."

I don't think any of this would affect someone's decision to buy a 360 if they've already decided that they want one, nor do I think they should. But as someone who has decided not to buy one for various reasons, I don't really feel any regrets now that I've had the opportunity to play around with one.

Re:Have to Agree

[Anonymous Coward]

Ia ctually find controllers much more comfortable to use than mouse and keyboard. So that's very good news.

You're not that comfortable with a keyboard? You sure fooled me. :p

Re:Have to Agree

[RoadDoggFL]

He's rockin' the virtual keyboard on a Dreamcast!

Re:Have to Agree

[Jarlsberg]

Or console games converted to the PC. The GTA games doesn't work that well with keyboard and mouse.

Re:Have to Agree

[Prophet of Nixon]

I messed with one myself at an EB, and while it was comfortable and light, it felt much more cheaply made than an old x-box controller, or even a controller S. The plastic seemed a bit more malleable, and seams in the controller seemed less finely fit. It still feels more solid that a PS2 controller though, and I've never managed to break one of those, so it should be alright.

Also, I might be nuts, but is the xbox logo in the middle now a button too?

Re:Have to Agree

[Shadow Wrought]

Also, I might be nuts, but is the xbox logo in the middle now a button too?

It's either button, or it lights up to tell you which of the four controllers it is. I couldn't fully figure it out either.

Re:Have to Agree

[Belly]

Its both. You can press it and it will bring up your game profile info.

Re:Have to Agree

[Forum Joe]

What a load of crap.

I waited 6 months for San Andreas to come out on the PC rather than play it on the PS2, simply because I got to play it with keyboard and mouse. I cannot stand using a controller for GTA games... Aiming with an "analog" stick? You've got to be kidding. Playing on the PC just feels so smooth and so easy.

Re:Have to Agree

[Jarlsberg]

Fine. Aiming is easier with a mouse. Everything else isn't.

Looks like a derivative of the S version

[imstanny]

The controllers look like the S type controllers for the original xbox; which were definately the most comfortable that I've used to date. Props for the reloaction of those black & white buttons, that was f'ing annoying.

Re:Looks like a derivative of the S version

[bigman2003]

The black and white buttons were the hardest to learn- by far.

But now I can use them just as easily as any other button on the controller, so I don't have any issue with them.

But that's after 4 years of fairly regular use...so I can understand how they provide a barrier to new users.

Hell, I even had big trouble in the Brute Force days...

Re:More XBox 360

[Anonymous Coward]

To be honest, even though I'm sick of all of the XBox 360 'coverage' over the past month I really can't fault Zoink for posting it; the XBox 360 will be relesed in a bit over a week and all of the major game news sites are running a lot of coverage of it right now; this happens every generation, with every system. There is always a ton of 'News' in the last month leading up to a system's launch, followed up by more news on 'How the system's launch went' followed by nothing for 6-9 months when no impressive games are released.

XBOX360 and ps3

[Anonymous Coward]

First off, am I the only one still snickering at the "3" in 360 so the xbox2 sounds "more advanced?" Sorry, onto my point.

The market is still rich, but just look at the titles. The majority seem to be re-hashed sequels.

Look. We understand that its risky to try new things, and that sequels are a nearly gaurenteed profit getter, but its really getting out of hand here! Its to the point where people expect the same game, just a bit shinier.

Theres nothing wrong with using the same characters or settings, but if the GAMEPLAY is the same, then why would I bother with it? Money is tight these days, and I'm not going to spend my hard earned money on re-hashed overpolishied shiny games that are basically just a version 2.0 of something Ive already played a zillion times over.

Try the DS. Really. Just sit down and play warioware touched, meteos, or even better, kirby's canvas curse. The completly new modes of gameplay are stunning. New ways of fun videogaming. Totally new games, not just the same FPS graphical updates and settings weve seen since "DOOM"

Did you ever notice...

[Anonymous Coward]

The people who bitch the most about Windows own Xboxes? Just like here: http://www.marachan.com/

Re:Did you ever notice...

[Golias]

Did you ever notice... The people who bitch the most about Windows own Xboxes?

So what are you saying? That it's somehow impossible for a lousy product and a good product to come from the same company?

I think that the majority of Ford cars and trucks are total pieces of shit, but I'm a big fan of both the Cobra and the Crown Victoria. That doesn't make my some kind of hypocrite, it just means I'm not completely hung up on brand identity.

I don't know if I'm going to ever get an X-Box 360, but my experience with the previous X-Box was that it was a very, very good game console. The only edge the PS2 ever had over it, as far as I was concerned, was the GTA series... and all of those games were eventually ported. (Although I must say that GTA:SA was not worth the wait.

Average Controller At Best

[Anonymous Coward]

The 360 is 'eh' - not nearly as bad as the various xbox controllers.

It's no dual shock 2 that's for sure.

Re:Average Controller At Best

[Jarlsberg]

Yeah, and thank God for that. The PS2 controller is only slightly better than the one that was supplied with the CD32. ;)

Obviously, it's a personal preference thing. I have never liked the Playstation controllers -- they're too compact and don't sit well in my hands.

The brick

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/images/3604.jpg

Though Xbox 360 is a bit smaller than the original one, if you add this huge power brick it's bigger.

Re:The brick

[Fred Or Alive]

Good lord! That is an impressively large power brick.

That is from a debug kit though... has anyone actually seen a final retail unit, and can they say if that has an internal or external PSU? I seem to remember hearing the actual retail consoles were supposed to have internal PSUs, even though the various debug units etc. have external ones.

Re:The brick

[Keeper]

The brick is in the final retail unit as well. Though if you think about it for a second, it makes sense. The 360 probably has the same power requirements of a mid to high end PC. When was the last time you saw a tiny PSU for a PC?

Re:The brick

[SilentChris]

Given the alternative, the brick is the best solution. Get the heat and size away from the rest of the machine.

Time for a new icon?

[inio]

Looks like it's time for a new icon for XBOX stories.

Re:Time for a new icon?

[madaxe42]

There already is.

Bah, Microsoft

[snuf23]

The only REAL console worth playing ever was the Apple Pippin, it just failed because the world is too stupid to appreciate Apple's mastery of all things electronic.

Re:Bah, Microsoft

[NanoGator]

"... it just failed because the world is too stupid to appreciate Apple's mastery of all things electronic."

What do you do when somebody says something that's mind bogglingly ignorant, but you're not sure if they're being sarcastic or not?

Re:Bah, Microsoft

[RoadDoggFL]

Reply to the post and ask /. what to do, like you'd ever get a reasonable response...

Anyway, I vote for "Give me all of your money."

Re:Bah, Microsoft

[snuf23]

I was being sarcastic... but I am glad in that I succeeded in making you wonder.
Although if I had unlimited funds I would totally seek out and purchase a Pippin, just to have it in a "what the hell were they thinking" section of my console collection (along with Nintendo's Virtual Boy of course).
I'm not being sarcastic when I say that this excites me more than an Xbox 360 for holiday gaming goodness.
(getting pretty of sick of the 360 hype - who knows maybe I'll own one someday, just don't care about this launch)

Re:Bah, Microsoft

[merdark]

Actually, that pippin idea sounds cool, but was clearly poorly executed and completely at the wrong time. Something like that done NOW, would be quite cool, so long as they could actually get games developed for it. Games are certainly not one of apples strong points!

Let me geat my glasses...

[kryogen1x]

Wow, I misread that as "The Death of 360." A little early for that, huh?

Re:Let me geat my glasses...

[fwitness]

Yeah, eight months or so. Depends on your definition of "early." /. already covered gamespots "360 as dreamcast" though, so at least here, your actually late.

The big deal is?

[Virtualtaco]

Playstation's had the exact button setup the 360 has now for years. The white and black for original xbox were R2 and L2 moved to where they should never have been. Why would you have similar buttons catagorized differently? A,B,X,Y black and white? Hell at least the six button genesis controller kept a universal button setup with abcxyz. It really made no sense. Too much praise for correcting a mistake.

Re:The big deal is?

[RoadDoggFL]

I would've loved it if they went with a,b,c,x,y,z, AND had four shoulder buttons (meh, 2 buttons, 2 triggers). I think fighting games would've really benefited from the six face buttons and just about every other game could use two more easy-to-access buttons.

Oh well, everybody else likes it.

Serious xbox advertising here

[mezron]

Honestly, how much is Microsoft paying for all this advertising on /.? 14 articles in 7 days now. Until now I couldn't have told you 14 different points of interest in the 360.

Wow

[MullerMn]

So, Nintendo have come up with an entirely new way of controlling a console, that is totally different from everything that has come before it, atleast in the main stream.

Microsoft, with their enourmous resources, have made the controller lighter, and moved some buttons.

Pathetic.

Re:Wow

[Cheapy]

Uhm...so?

Nintendo has taken a product, changed a few physical things, and sold it as new. (Gameboy -> Gameboy Pocket.)

When a company is this new into some area (Microsoft being 'new' to consoles), they will usually stick with the Tried And True Method. Nintendo did this during the NES to SNES transition. Sony did the exact same thing with Playstation to Playstation 2. Were Nintendo and Sony pathetic as well?

Re:Wow

[jchenx]

As interesting as the Nintendo Revolution controller looks and sounds in theory, it's still way too early to pass judgement. For all we know, it could be tiring to use after a while, or too unreliable, or too quirky. (Or it could be totally awesome and indeed revolutionize game controls forever)

MS definately did go with the safe approach, no doubt about it. Arguably that was probably the best thing to do, after all the flack they took with the original Xbox controller. :)

Re:Wow

[steveo777]

I'm not defending the grandparent post, but there was almost no change in the PS1 to PS2 controllers (I'm talking both dual shocks). In fact, I can barely tell any difference. The difference between the NES and SNES controlers was an extra four buttons and ergonomics. The SNES' didn't cut into your palms when you were playing an intense session of Mega Man. They were also slightly larger so the carpel-tunnel had more trouble setting in. I still have problems with the smaller controllers. I grew as games did, so did my hands. I imagine playing my Intellivision will cause irrevocable pain.

Nintendo innovated with the ergonomics of the controller while making sure the functionalitly wasn't sacrificed... except, perhaps, for their first try at analogue. That thing wore out way too quick. The worst part was that nobody ever came up with a suitable alternative that worked on the N64.

Gamecube controllers are easily the most comfortable I've ever used followed pretty close by the Microsoft S's. The Playstation's controllers (dual-shock) seem very ho-hum. Mostly because it takes more effort than it should to hit the L1, R1 buttons. Worse if you need them both. Same problem with the GameCube controller's 'Z' and 'R.' But it's rarely a problem with any games I've played on it. Most of the time 'Z' is the map (Metroid).

By far the most uncomfortable contrller I've used is the Dreamcast. My fingers instictively want to wrap around the grip and then have nowhere to go, so my knuckles dig into the plastic... or rather the reverse, which is annoying, and downright painfull when you're playing RE: Code Veronica.

I've tried out the 360 recently, and the controller feels flimsy, though it's rugged enough (for a kiosk, we'll see how long untill the thumbgrips fall off). Also, the triggers were very annoying, but I didn't play long enough to get a real feel for them. I won't be getting the system... likely at all because I simply cannot afford it. But I have friends, so only time will tell what I think about those controllers.

Re:Wow

[grumbel]

### Microsoft, with their enourmous resources, have made the controller lighter, and moved some buttons.

Yes and thats exactly what I like about the XBox360, it didn't do anything revolutionary, but they took what they have and made it better, plain and simple, and from what I have seen they seem to have succeeded, the controller looks fine, the console itself as well, what was wrong with the old XBox seems to be fixed. Yes, its not an endless hype-o-ramma like the PS3 or some revolutionary thing like the Nintendo Revolution, for which we have seen zero games so far, XBox360 however is here now, well in a few weeks, anyway, you can buy it, there are games for it and its done.

We will have to see if the XBox360 turns out a success, but unlike with the XBox, I have a hard time to find anything obviously wrong with the XBox360, its a simple solid console. Nintendo Rev on the other side could still turn into a VirtualBoy2 if they don't get any games for it soon. And PS3, I don't know, I don't like the design, I don't like the controller (same mistakes back from PS1-Dualshock all over repeated) and I especially don't like the end less hyping without actually having real games footage to show, everybody can do nice rendermovies. XBox360 is real where the others are still nothing more then fluffy dreams.

I saw one today...

[tm2b]

The one I saw at Target today was really pretty.

Very pretty, that is, until it crashed. Then it took a few minutes for it to restart and for the kid playing it to get back to the game (a Call of Duty game, I think), and then it was pretty again... until it crashed again.

I think I'll wait a while before even thinking of buying one.

Re:I saw one today...

[Maserati]

Ok, that's one anecdote about seeing a 360 crash playing CoD2. I'm going to need to hear a lot more reports (or see one do it myself) before I actually believe this. Besides, I'm not wasting my last mod point on a +1: Funny for the parent.

Re:I saw one today...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice try Sony troll.

Re:I saw one today...

[hal2814]

I believe the GP here. All he was said was that he saw it crash a few times. That's entirely believable. This is the first run of a complex computer system. There will be some problems with a few units. It's also possible that CoD2 was a poor port. He didn't even condemn the system as a whole. He just pointed out that he wasn't interested after he saw the display. I don't blame him. I have a habit of not buying items I see broken in the store. If for no other reason, you should belive him so you make sure to thoroughly test the system before purchase (or at least buy it somewhere with a decent return policy). I know if after hearing that I see the same thing happening, I'd wait a bit before purchase.

Re:I saw one today...

[apoc06]

there are actually quite a few articles out on the net that chronicle experiences like the one he has had. honestly from the way things sound its just that the x360 gets overheated easily and theres not enough ventilation in the demo kiosks.

Re:I saw one today...

[tm2b]

Sony troll?

Them's fighting words, Coward - Xbox is my preferred gaming platform.

I'll buy a 360 as soon as (a) I feel they're stable, and (b) they can run my library of games, including Toe Jam & Earl III, DDR (XBox), Splinter Cell, Blood Omen 2, and Battlestar Galactica (some of those might be supported now, I didn't check my library yet).

Screenshots

[Anonymous Coward]

Has everyone seen what these Next-Gen HD boxes look like on a normal TV? That's why nintendo is making a smart move with the revolution, once people start seeing that the next-gen boxes look only slightly better than the PS2/Xbox they'll have to wonder why it's worth buying a new set within the next 2,3 years

Then maybe in 3 years they have a reseaonably priced HDTV set, and can pick up Nintendo's new box which is 3 years ahead of the PS3 and Xbox360.

Sounds like a win to me.

Re:Screenshots

[Jarlsberg]

Then maybe in 3 years they have a reseaonably priced HDTV set, and can pick up Nintendo's new box which is 3 years ahead of the PS3 and Xbox360. Sounds like a win to me

Yes, until you realize Nintendo's new box won't do HD. If you think Nintendo will release yet another console in three years when the Revolution is still about a year away, you're going to be very disappointed.

Re:Screenshots

[gabebear]

Adding HD to the revolution at a later date should be trivial. Not supporting HD right now takes a lot of preasure off developers and lowers costs all around. I'm betting in about 2-3 years from now we see a HD version of the revolution.

I don't know what the grand-parent was talking about with "3 years ahead" though.

Re:More XBox 360

[fwitness]

"... followed by nothing for 6-9 months when no impressive games are released."

So I should be getting my impressive PSP games about now?

Just a typo...

[MeanderingMind]

Actually, it's supposed to be Death. Zonk just typoed.

Black and white buttons

[Jarlsberg]

The black and white buttons, always a pain in the ass to find in the middle of intense Xbox games, have been converted into two small rectangles located over the triggers, making them much more intuitive to use."

They are easy to locate on the Duke! Bring back the Duke! :)

Eh, I know it's not going to happen. The new controllers look allright, though.

Re:Black and white buttons

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I kept hoping they would surprise us with a duke 360. Alas, it is not so.. S controllers are too small, and as long as you aren't carrying them someplace, duke controllers just feel so nice. :D

Re:More XBox 360

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut up and buy UMD movies, bitch.

Re:All X-Box all the time.

[Jarlsberg]

I'm confused. I thought this was Googledot. Or was it SCOdot? Come on, Xbox360 is out in a few days. Of course you're going to get a lot of stories about it.

Was it...

[News for nerds]

Blue Screen or Green Screen?

consoles are cheap unless you work for 711

[cheekyboy]

Dude,

Tonnes of people can afford all 3 consoles.

What are they? 4 days wages at most if you work a crap job.

12 hrs wages if you are a professional.

Wake up man, back in 1990, it took YOUR PARENTS 2-5 weeks spare wages to save up for the elcheapest
Amiga!!!!

Would any parent TODAY pay $4000 for a games console???

I appologise for 711 employees, I bet they can afford 2 consoles easily.

Even 16yo kids working at burger joints can.

There are no console wars, buy them all if you like the games. Hell, its cheaper than a new nvidia/ati video card.

Re:consoles are cheap unless you work for 711

[BushCheney08]

Are you seriously comparing the ability to buy a computer to the ability to buy a console?!? One can be used for a number of household things (accounting, word processing, etc) AND can be used to help develop useful skills for the future (programming, design, etc), not to mention it's entertainment abilities. The other can be used to kill tons of time. Yeah, I can't figure out why parents would save up a bunch to buy a computer but not a console...

Re:consoles are cheap unless you work for 711

[Anonymous Coward]

You buy a computer for porn, a console for games =p

Anyway the parent post is spot on. People send 2-3x the cost of a console just to play games. Any computer in the last 5 years can do anything but games.

Remind Anyone of the PS2 Launch?

[rAiNsT0rm]

I'd call the "depth" of the 360 pretty damn shallow. So basically we have an identical launch to the PS2... one solid driving game based on an established franchise which is the only noteworthy title. The usual sports suspects with a fresh coat of paint and nothing else. The obligatory "extreme" sport. And last but least the shallow button masher that shows off the first-gen title graphic prowess that everyone will praise initially but will lose luster quickly. Except that's it for the 360, at least the PS2 had a fairly long list of titles that more or less fell into the same scheme with a few oddballs and change-ups for good measure.

So after all the hype, we have games with cheated "HD" quality, limited backwards compatability, no special features or technology tapped... we basically have Xbox 1.5 which is what myself and many others have stated all along. Guess what, the PS3 will do about the same. Why does this always come as a surprise/letdown to everyone? It only took me one time to touch the stove burner to realize not to do it again...