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Consumer Strikes Back at Crooked Online Retailer
BigBadLad writes "Seems like customers are at a huge disadvantage when dealing with dishonest retailers. This is the story of a man who had a horrible experience with an online camera retailer. In short he was lied to, yelled at, and threatened to be sued if he posted the experience on his blog. He was also persuaded to sign an agreement that would allow the retailer to charge him an extra $100 if he left bad feedback."
Except that he didn't sign the agreement to pay $100 if he posted unkind reviews. That was taken from another review which he cited.
Get it right, or pay the price.
The offending camera "dealer" site is: Priceritephoto.com
According to an update on his blog site, he has since reported this charlatan to the New York State Attourney General's Office. Also, apperently Price Rite Photo was listed on PriceGrabber, but has since been delisted.
My mom had the same experience. She placed a $800 camera order and was called that day to "confirm her address", at which point they proceeded to try and sell her a $150 warranty and other expensive accessories. Once she refused, they suddenly informed her the product was out of stock, but they later said they could get it to her by Friday if she paid for a $150 warranty. She tried to cancel and they said there would be a $40 restocking fee (for restocking the product they didn't have). They also got caught in their own lies at numerous points. The first representative said it was his first day, and then later he said he had lied before and that he was there for six years (the BBB documents this company as being three years old). They threatened her with their possession of her credit card and made nonsensical threats to trace down any bad review she or any of her family or friends made, which they could somehow magically do since they "had all the IP addresses of the computer in her household". The people she talked to at this company said their names were: Harvey Finkel and Moses Franco, though this was probably made up. Their email tells the user to leave a five star review at shopping sites using the following link: http://www.priceritephoto.com/priceritephoto/offer .htm
and the text below:
**Please do NOT mention this in the review, we do not offer this to all our customers.
**Please do NOT mention my name or the fact that we asked to write a review the websites will not post it. This will also make you eligible for FREE shipping on any accessory purchases in the future.
Since it seems from many of the comments on the blog that this sort of thing is common, I wonder how the swindler's behind this store can be shut down instead of just shutting down the store? Even though it may seem satisfying to finally get this store put out of business, its frustrating to know that these crooks will probably leave the business having made a lot of money preying off consumers and may just move onto another business. Has anyone been able to obtain any info on whose behind this and how we can pursue legal action against them, instead of just pursuing their pathetic crooked stores?
Others report similar experiences with PriceRitePhoto at resellerratings: http://www.resellerratings.com/seller8613.html
I read that and I really feel for the guy and everyone else who ends up in that situation. I've had problems myself with online sellers.
I also shut down my own online store due to what appeared to be an organized plot against one my stores. I'm not a tinfoil hat type, so hear me out... I operate 4 online stores, doing the drop ship thing. It was 5, but one business I opened seem to go up in flames once I started getting page ranks. How? I began getting orders from customers who demanded overnight shipping and immediate confirmation of overnight shipping. As my stores clearly state we do not have a phone number and that we do not offer overnight shipping on anything, this really was bizzarre. They would complain within hours of placing the orders.
Shortly, we recieved complaints from the better business beaureu from these customers who had NEVER BEEN CHARGED, and the complaints contained completely blown out of proportion accounts of what happened. Including accusations that we swore at them on the phone(which is a neat trick since we don't operate a phone number), gave them false tracking numbers, etc... We later found out it wasn't just BBB reports, it was also showing up in online message boards where our target market resided, as well as online consumer complaint websites.
I just shut the store down entirely because I didn't want to deal with it. What convinces me this was a plot is simply that none of this crap has happened to my other stores. I've operated them just fine, with very few complaints. But in this one sector, I suspect there is some business out there who didn't like my growing page ranks or my feedback ratings. And it just started out of the blue, shortly after we began getting high placements in google, yahoo, and MSN.
Anyone else here experience that? Just wondering.
From the PriceRitePhoto website... "What are the benefits of registration? As a registered customer, you become entitled to special discount schemes and promotional pricing offers. These schemes would become available to you not only on orders you place at our web store but also to orders through other channels."
If you have any questions, you might just give them a call, toll free at:
888-365-4300
New York and New Jersey camera stores are famous for this. The general scam runs something like this:
1) Advertise an incredibly low price that gets people's interest.
2) Take their credit card order, telling them the item's in stock.
3) Within a couple of days, phone the customer to ask them if they want to buy the accessories pack. This usually includes most of the things that were in the box to start with - like the charger, kit lens, etc. These cost several hundred more, making the camera more expensive than it would have been via a reputable dealer.
4) If they refuse, try berating them.
5) If they still refuse, announce that the model is out of stock - even though it was confirmed in stock when they ordered.
6) Wait for them to either give in and take the terrible deal or, if they do finally cancel on you, charge a 15% restocking fee for the camera you never took off the shelf. Either way, you sit on the money from their credit card for the whole period.
It's a pretty simple rule in the camera community: If the deal's too good to be true, it is.
You can use online reputation sites but they can be rigged. The store keeps sale details and then enters their own perfect feedback for any that don't get consumed.
Personally, I limit to the following:
B&H, Adorama: Both very reputable stores. Some people have minor issues but they do genuinely work hard. You can pretty much use them as baseline prices - if it costs more, you're paying too much, if it costs less, it's likely a scam.
Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. By using major retailers, whilst you won't get a great deal initially, you can often find a 10% sale for reward card members, 5% back in vouchers on the sale (which buys memory cards etc). and so on. Be careful of open boxes here. It's not unheard of for say a Canon 20D to be bought and then a Digital Rebel to be returned in the box.
Dell - Crazy as it may sound, they do have some great deals. The trick is to use sites like DealMeIn or HotDealsClub to find out when they have a great sale on.
NewEgg - even with an employee discount from working for one of the major manufacturers, NewEgg was within $20, had free shipping, and got it to me fast - which turned out far better than getting it with my discount.
One of the many "badges of honor" on PriceRitePhoto.com's website is a PriceRunner award.
http://www.pricerunner.com/retailer/14312/reviews
Look through the list, and you can see 70% of the 5 star ratings are almost cut and pasted identical. Spelling errors matched post for post. It's so blatant that the review page has been put on hold while they verify the reviews. No doubt PriceRitePhoto trying to water down the negative feedback to protect their images.
Look for I purchased a Panasonic AG-DVC60 W/Pro Accessory Kit. I was very pleased with there selection of accessories in this kit, I believe I got the best Value for my buck. Also unlike most other internet ordering sites like this I found it very easy to talk to the sales and custumer service people. There was short waiting times on the phone as well as people who were easy to understand and willing to help me with my order from selection to delivery. I would recomend checking out PriceRitePhoto.com before making your next purchace.
Losers, how low can you go? Apparently PRP found an express elevator to ultimate lameness.
Here's what the business actually looks like. This is from the web site of someone who has been photographing the storefronts of mail order photo dealers in Brooklyn. The results are very funny. Some are mail drops. Some are bogus addresses. Some are homes. Some are tiny stores selling something else. Only one is a huge warehouse with loading docks.
It's a bit dated, but Don Wiss has documented the storefronts of most of the Brooklyn and Manhattan photo gear dealers. Some I would obviously never buy from. Others are just fine. A picture is worth a thousand words.
When I first heard about this yesterday, I was surprised. The victim in this tale is a fan (or employee? dunno) of flickr, one of the hottest social network web apps around at the moment. Yet when buying a camera, he didn't take advantage of them at all.
Look around any photography forum, every time a questions like, "hey, I just saw this camera at an incredible price at this store, is this a good deal?" people always reply with "check out resellerratings.com. How someone so technically and netsocially (for lack of a better term) savvy didn't ask around about this new store they were about to send $3k to is a mystery to me. Heck, a simple google search would've revealed problems.
There are so many tools out there to verify good sellers/companies to do business with. Why do you think B&H has so much business, even though its prices aren't rock bottom? They win on service and reliability, again and again. Of course, they're not perfect, but they've never failed me, and 'horror stories' with them are few and far between - especially compared to the volume they do.
Speaking of trust systems: I've had excellent results with ebay - buying from reputable sellers. There are quite a few chinese/hong kong sellers on there with 10-50k transactions and 1-10 negative feedbacks. I don't know *any* brick and mortar stores with those kinds of numbers.
this link will load pics from pricerite infinitely!!! that will show 'em! http://electronicchaos.com/pricewrongphoto.html http://electronicchaos.com/pricewrongphoto.html
This is apparently very common behavior for camera and electronics shops in Brooklyn. It's so widespread that some guy actually went around and took pictures of the actual physical storefronts for all of these online shops.
Very classy establishments, all.
http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/
make sure to call priceritephoto and voice your displeasure, 888-365-4300. skype allows free calling to toll-free numbers. ;)
slashdotting a phone number anyone?
Blog via SMS text messaging
Personally, I look at the T&C of any retailer I make a large purchase from. That's how I spotted the $100 fee for the chargeback.
Essentially, gotchas like that are a clear sign not to do business with someone. If they're that worried about chargebacks or bad feedback that they try to penalize you for either in the T&C or EULA, run far away.
Start a happiness pandemic
Actually, the website mentioned in the article is part of a chain of hundreds of websites all run by the same dishonest camera shop in New York. I lost a bookmark that someone had compiled that listed almost all of their websites, but they all share the exact same layout and graphic elements (the "Hacker Safe" logo is a dead giveaway) and they all list their bait-and-switch with Froogle/Pricewatch/etc.
I was searching for a Canon S400 and found one of these sites offering the camera for $100 less than anything even close. I knew it was too good to be true, so I called on the phone, illegally recording it but I wanted to have proof anyway. I asked specifically 1) was it refurbished (no) 2) was it the US model (yes) and 3) was it the retail version (yes). Okay, I figured I had all my bases covered, so I ordered it.
Warning bells went off when I got a call the next day from a sales rep asking if I wanted to upgrade the battery for only $15 more. Apparently, the battery that came with this model only lasts "30-40 photos" because Canon skimped on it. I was pretty damn sure a company like Canon wouldn't be so stupid, so after asking to call him back (so I could hit record on my answer machine) I asked if the battery that came with the camera was brand new and from Canon. Yes on both counts, so, I told him no thanks, just the camera and the "inferior" battery.
I received the camera and right off the bat I knew why it was $100 cheaper. It was the Japanese model. Basically, these a-holes had someone over in Korea or Taiwan fill up a shipping container with everything and sent it over here to the US. Grey-market. It's cheaper because of difference in currency, but despite being the "same" thing, it's not for two reasons: 1) Packaging...which isn't really important but 2) No US warrantee...which is VERY important. Also, US manufacturers can refuse to service foreign models (though they rarely do). Technically, your warantee is back overseas where the camera came from.
I called them and was told that was why it I was offered a chance to buy a warantee on the website. I pointed out that I paid for the US model, and did not receive it. I was told it was the US model it was just "imported direct from the manufacturer". I told them sorry, no dice, I want to return it. They said they would send me instructions. The instruction? 1) no returns without RMA number and 2) the only way to get an RMA number is to sign a form that you accept a 20% restocking fee. I took one look and called my credit card company.
Big plug here for Chase MasterCard. I have had to dispute six times in the four years I've had the card, and every time they worked FOR me against the merchant and made sure things turned out well. This time was no exception. The Chase rep sent me a simple form, where I checked the box "merchandise was not as advertised". For proof I send a picture of the website showing the model number (PowerShot S400) and the product box I received (IXY 400) Yes, they were the same physical camera, but not what I paid for!
I sent in the dispute and it was approved and I got my money back. Then the fun began! The merchant disputed my dispute, sending in a picture of a US box and saying that was what I received. Chase asked me to send them a different copy of the box, which I easily did. Then Chase informed me that I couldn't keep the product and I would need to return it to the company. I was pretty pissed about the concept of losing even $20 to ship it back to these crooks, but the helpful Chase person pointed out that MasterCard did not care how it went back to the company and suggested COD. (guinness)Brilliant!(/guinness) So, I packed up the camera and sent it COD without an RMA number. Surprise surprise, it was rejected and sent back to me. Yes, I had to pay the shipping both ways. But here's the fun part...I had attempted to return it and that's all Chase needed me to do. I sent in a copy of the shipping form and was issued the final resolution to my dispute: full ref
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
What you are seeing is the results of years of people being scammed by companies just like this one.
For whatever reason, this post has caused a flashpoint of activity as anyone who has ever been wronged by a shady New York camera dealer exacts revenge.
Honestly, I expect there's nothing for the people at the company to do now but run the shop under a new name, that one is done.
However I don't think the incidents are as isolated as you think. Just because they often get away with hoodwinking people into buying warranties and overpriced accessories does not mean they should get off scott free even if not everyone complains. They really are getting what they have coming to them. Even the complaints are not that isolated, just look at the horrible ResellerRatings score.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
And if you believe this guy is on his first business name, or that calling him is going to help in any way, you underestimate the thickness of the skin of this kind of parasite.
Actually going there would be kind of dumb even if you do enjoy a visit to Brooklyn. It will be a nondescript graffiti-covered brick place with a rollup door and just enough identification to take deliveries. Knocking on the door is probably just asking for a beating.
He'll be back with a new website, new fake feedback in all the right places, same scheme. He won't lose any sleep either.
I would buy a $2900 camera if I could. The 5D is a low-pro/high-amature level camera.
It gets you:
*12.7 megapixels.
*Very high light sensitivity. (ISO 3200 which is about eight better times your average digicam.)
*Low noise(It will look cleaner at ISO 3200 than your average camera at ISO 400.)
*Fast shutter speeds(1/8000th of a second.)
*Interchangable lenses(Let's see you do that for less than $600 new.)
*Filters, polarizers, hoods, and diopters for those lenses.
*Full 35mm size CMOS sensor(for true wide angle shots(think 7mm.)
*Start-up time less than 1/3rd of a second(Your average digicam has about 3-7 seconds start-up.)
*Pro quality and strength flashes.
*Ability to slave multiple flashes(think portrait studio.)
*Ability to control the exposure for HOURS if needed(I've done some neat stuff with long exposures.)
*Remote shutter control.
*Underwater housing.
*Fast focus-to-shot(near instant, better than the half second or more some digicams take.)
*Focus and track moving subjects
*More focus and light metering options(Get that shot right the first time.)
*Shoot 3 frames per second for 60 frames(See the dust fly off the baseball when it's hit.)
I could go on and on. This type of camera is overkill for your average mom wanting to take pictures at Christmas. It's a real tool in the hands of a creative person.
Show me a 12.7 megapixel camera for $290. Hell, show me an 8 megapixel camera for $290 and I'll show you a piece of garbage.
Not everone needs a set of $2,000 cutlery, but you wouldn't give a professional chef a knock off Swiss army knife to do your meal with would you?
This is why you need one-time credit card numbers. Several banks offer them. You generate them on-line as needed, with a precise limit and timeframe, and you can even revoke them if they haven't been charged.
Disclaimer: As always, this is not legal advice. If you get legal advice on Slashdot, you need your head checked.
Depending on the state you are in, it's not always illegal. Many states permit recording so long as one party is aware of it. So you are free to record all phonecalls you make since you are aware of it. The reason call centres warn you is to ensure there aren't any legal problems anywhere.
Check your local laws but it's allowed in a large number of states.
I would imagine an IRS investigation would reveal tax fraud. There's simply no way that crooks this heinous are playing honest with the IRS.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
My understanding of online taxes is that businesses charge tax only if they have a physical presence in the state the order originated from, i.e. warehouse, storefront, offices.
He's not talking about sales tax, he's talking about income tax. Even if you only sell intrastate, you are still responsible to pay income taxes on the profits that you make.
The IRS is the one organization that you don't want to fuck with. Remember, these are the guys who took down Al Capone.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Comment removed based on user account deletion
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller8613.html
Customer Satisfaction
Six-Month Rating: 4.39
Average Store: 7.23
Seems like they are selling the product only if you buy overpriced accessories with them. This is very usual thing to do if you start to read the stories of customers that have bought stuff from the lowest scoring stores.
?SYNTAX ERROR
Sorry, but amazon doesn't try to sell you overprice accessories, nor do they threaten to charge a "restocking fee" for items they will never ship if you cancel, plus they don't charge your credit card until they ship your item. That said, they do seem to have issues with properly estimating the the availability for anything that they don't have in stock, and I have repeatedly houded they customer service about this (the number is something like 800-750-7575 [slate.com prints it every year])
Some one mentioned to use them in an earlier post. What credit card companies offer them and how do you go about making them? Would gift cards be the same thing?
I was having a dispute with one ISP and I started recording the phone calls. I confronted a member of their management staff with the recorded phone calls. He told me that the phone calls were recorded illegally and that I could be charged with a crime.
I then played the beginning of one of the recordings to him:
"This call may be recorded for quality assurance purposes."
I said "that's the sound of your company giving me permission to record these phone calls." He was not a happy man, but they sure became a lot more helpful in resolving what had been a service nightmare. And the tech support people stopped lying.
Their email tells the user to leave a five star review at shopping sites using the following link: http://www.priceritephoto.com/priceritephoto/offer .htm and the text below: **Please do NOT mention this in the review, we do not offer this to all our customers. **Please do NOT mention my name or the fact that we asked to write a review the websites will not post it. This will also make you eligible for FREE shipping on any accessory purchases in the future
Well at least that explains how they manage to keep thier review ratings so high. And the people who actually fall for the bait and switch will be the ones most likely to fall for the FREE STUFF line as well.
I'm not a member of any of these shopping sites but I wonder how the sites will react if someone submitted the above link to thier complaints departments.
Quantum Physics a.k.a. sub-molecular statistics
A quick google search for 'priceritephoto crook', suprisingly, revealed the following photo of the PriceRitePhoto building.
Looks a bit, uhm, sketchy.
Things brings back bad memories for me. I had a very similar experience with this same merchant a year ago, and I wrote the attached letter. I sent it through the mail to the New York BBB and the PriceGrabber offices out in CA. At that time (October, 2004), I spoke with a PriceGrabber rep on the phone and they removed PriceRitePhoto from their site. So how come these bastards got listed again?
To whom it may concern:
I am writing this letter to describe the experiences that I have had with a business called PriceRitePhoto.com. Their address is:1274 49th Street, Brooklyn, NY 11219 and their customer service phone number is (888) 365-4300. I found this business through the PriceGrabber.com website and attempted to purchase a camera from them. However this company was more interested in lying to me and manipulating me than selling me a camera.
I am spending my time and effort in order to inform you of the dirty tactics used by PriceRitePhoto.com with the hope that my story will save other potential customers the headaches and lost sleep that I have endured. The manager of PriceRitePhoto.com has already tried to silence my opinion through bribery and extortion but I think that the potential customers *deserve* to know the business strategies employed by PriceRitePhoto.com before deciding to do business with them.
I understand that I am the kind of customer that PriceRitePhoto.com doesn't want. I am an informed consumer and a comparison shopper. If they had simply been honest with me and told me that they were unwilling to sell me the Canon Digital Rebel camera unless I purchased some other accessories, I would have just found another company from which to purchase this camera. I probably wouldn't have submitted a negative review on PriceGrabber.com - I just would have gone my own way. But what I got instead of honesty were lies and manipulation, and I think these strategies are completely unacceptable for a professional organization and ought to be publicized.
I first read about the Canon Digital Rebel camera more than a year ago, and I instantly wanted one. However I was not able to afford to purchase one until recently. Several months ago I began researching the Digital Rebel and several other cameras in preparation for a purchase. I found the PriceGrabber.com website which offered reviews of many different merchants selling this camera, in addition to their prices. I saw that the various merchants fell into several different strata - about 7 or 8 were in the very lowest price range, from $799 to $850 including shipping. I found a merchant in the middle of this price range with a high rating and mostly positive reviews: PriceRitePhoto.com. I knew that I would also need some other accessories with the camera, and I planned on purchasing a USB 2.0 Compact Flash card reader and a Compact Flash card. I found that PriceRitePhoto.com had a USB 1.0 CF reader for $49, but did not offer a USB 2.0 reader. However Best Buy sold a USB 2.0 reader for $15, so I drove to purchase this item at Best Buy. After some research I decided that the CF card that I wanted was the Lexar 80x 1 gigabyte card. I looked on the PriceRitePhoto.com website but found that this merchant did not offer this card for sale, so instead I purchased it from TigerDirect.com.
So the only item left was the camera. On Thursday, September 16th, 2004 I placed order #7490 from PriceRitePhoto.com for a Canon Digital Rebel camera with 18-55mm EF-S lens for $799 plus $24.80 shipping. I thought I was getting a great deal at this time, but I had no idea what abuse I was in store for.
It began on the following Sunday, September 19th. I received an email at about 11:00 am, stating that I needed to call PriceRitePhoto.com to "confirm the information on your order". This is where the deceptions began, because the real purpose of this phone call was not in fact to verify my order information, but to sell me some additional items. What follows is certainly one of the most unpleasant experiences that I've ever en
There are dozens of similar outfits all over New York City. It's an open secret that they're basically all fronts for various ethnic Mafia organizations. Primarily Russian, Israeli and Syrian, but with ample representation from just about everywhere else on the planet. Whoever the actual operator of "Pricerite" is, you can bet your last quarter that they already have half a dozen other D/B/As, maildrops and websites up and running already, and that they spin up and down various identities all the time.
...but if you're just a consumer and not a sociologist, you would be well advised to avoid the heck out of any online "camera store" with a 11xxx or 10xxx zip code, with the possible exceptions of J&R and B&H. Caveat Emptor, to say the least.
From a sociological standpoint, these are fascinating organizations, especially in the way that they sometimes slowly, over time, evolve into "proper" retail outlets, (e.g. J&R Music/Video)... and sometimes "devolve" back into criminality (e.g. Crazy Eddie).
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.