Slashdot Mirror
Consumer Strikes Back at Crooked Online Retailer
BigBadLad writes "Seems like customers are at a huge disadvantage when dealing with dishonest retailers. This is the story of a man who had a horrible experience with an online camera retailer. In short he was lied to, yelled at, and threatened to be sued if he posted the experience on his blog. He was also persuaded to sign an agreement that would allow the retailer to charge him an extra $100 if he left bad feedback."
Except that he didn't sign the agreement to pay $100 if he posted unkind reviews. That was taken from another review which he cited.
Get it right, or pay the price.
The offending camera "dealer" site is: Priceritephoto.com
According to an update on his blog site, he has since reported this charlatan to the New York State Attourney General's Office. Also, apperently Price Rite Photo was listed on PriceGrabber, but has since been delisted.
Wow, now thats what I call customer service. You can't get feedback like that with any other store.
My mom had the same experience. She placed a $800 camera order and was called that day to "confirm her address", at which point they proceeded to try and sell her a $150 warranty and other expensive accessories. Once she refused, they suddenly informed her the product was out of stock, but they later said they could get it to her by Friday if she paid for a $150 warranty. She tried to cancel and they said there would be a $40 restocking fee (for restocking the product they didn't have). They also got caught in their own lies at numerous points. The first representative said it was his first day, and then later he said he had lied before and that he was there for six years (the BBB documents this company as being three years old). They threatened her with their possession of her credit card and made nonsensical threats to trace down any bad review she or any of her family or friends made, which they could somehow magically do since they "had all the IP addresses of the computer in her household". The people she talked to at this company said their names were: Harvey Finkel and Moses Franco, though this was probably made up. Their email tells the user to leave a five star review at shopping sites using the following link: http://www.priceritephoto.com/priceritephoto/offer .htm
and the text below:
**Please do NOT mention this in the review, we do not offer this to all our customers.
**Please do NOT mention my name or the fact that we asked to write a review the websites will not post it. This will also make you eligible for FREE shipping on any accessory purchases in the future.
He was also persuaded to sign an agreement that would allow the retailer to charge him an extra $100 if he left bad feedback.
Thinning of the herd.
Since it seems from many of the comments on the blog that this sort of thing is common, I wonder how the swindler's behind this store can be shut down instead of just shutting down the store? Even though it may seem satisfying to finally get this store put out of business, its frustrating to know that these crooks will probably leave the business having made a lot of money preying off consumers and may just move onto another business. Has anyone been able to obtain any info on whose behind this and how we can pursue legal action against them, instead of just pursuing their pathetic crooked stores?
Sure he should have known better than to use them. But his complaining is having very real, and very positive, results. They should be taken off PriceGrabber, they should be blacklisted at ResellerRatings, they should really be out of business and in jail! They kind of threats they are making along with blatantly illegal credit-card charges indicate they are totally out of control.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Did that company tell you to come to /. and mention how good their deals are?
we could just slashdot their site /.
Did he hit them with CAPS LOCK or sumthin'?
They got to you too! Blink twice if it's the Mafia.
Q: What did the comedian say to the crowd?
A: If I knew, this joke would be funny.
Others report similar experiences with PriceRitePhoto at resellerratings: http://www.resellerratings.com/seller8613.html
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/
Go there if you want stuff like that.
"16bit Gaming Goodness!"
It's pretty funny, in Update #2, this Steve Phillips guy is complaining about the tactics of flooding his stores phone lines. That was before it hit /.'s front page. If he thought it was bad before, he's in for a world of shit now.
That's funny, epinions.com seems to disagree. Everything single review is very negative:
http://www99.shopping.com/xMR-~MRD-306792
Wow.
I guess I won't be buying there again.
Wow, that's a shockingly bad story. I've had bad experiences with some web retailers before, but it didn't compare to that!
With shopping search engines placing the focus directly on price, and the ease at which you can set up an online store, it probably invites people like this to set up low quality operations where they cut costs by doing things like not having stock.
I agree you should target the people behind such sites rather than the sites themselves, as it's too easy for them to just set up a new site and do it all over again.
MyLinkVault - online bookmarks with a fast drag-and-dr
I read that and I really feel for the guy and everyone else who ends up in that situation. I've had problems myself with online sellers.
I also shut down my own online store due to what appeared to be an organized plot against one my stores. I'm not a tinfoil hat type, so hear me out... I operate 4 online stores, doing the drop ship thing. It was 5, but one business I opened seem to go up in flames once I started getting page ranks. How? I began getting orders from customers who demanded overnight shipping and immediate confirmation of overnight shipping. As my stores clearly state we do not have a phone number and that we do not offer overnight shipping on anything, this really was bizzarre. They would complain within hours of placing the orders.
Shortly, we recieved complaints from the better business beaureu from these customers who had NEVER BEEN CHARGED, and the complaints contained completely blown out of proportion accounts of what happened. Including accusations that we swore at them on the phone(which is a neat trick since we don't operate a phone number), gave them false tracking numbers, etc... We later found out it wasn't just BBB reports, it was also showing up in online message boards where our target market resided, as well as online consumer complaint websites.
I just shut the store down entirely because I didn't want to deal with it. What convinces me this was a plot is simply that none of this crap has happened to my other stores. I've operated them just fine, with very few complaints. But in this one sector, I suspect there is some business out there who didn't like my growing page ranks or my feedback ratings. And it just started out of the blue, shortly after we began getting high placements in google, yahoo, and MSN.
Anyone else here experience that? Just wondering.
Not so says, well, pretty much everyone else
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller9018.html
From the PriceRitePhoto website... "What are the benefits of registration? As a registered customer, you become entitled to special discount schemes and promotional pricing offers. These schemes would become available to you not only on orders you place at our web store but also to orders through other channels."
In contrast, most people feel that, even armed with the internet, a blog and the resulting social networking, one cannot do anything about Iraq.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
That is a terrible company with even more terrible business pratices. That form they sent the customer threatening illegal chrages on his credit card if he posted negative feedback was outrageous, and he was a fool to sign it. That would be the end of my service experience with them right there, no way in hell I'd sigh anything like that.
" We don't need to find the weapons of mass destruction we just need to want to find them, that's the way it works!
There is only one New York store that I would deal with - B&H (www.bhphotovideo.com). They're one of the best camera retailers in the country.
Besides for them, the only other company I will deal with now is Calumet Photographic. I've heard good things about Robert's in Indianapolis as well, but I've never had any dealings with them.
My Sysadmin Blog
(I'm an Aussie; we know about corroborees and stuff)
But what's to stop someone with a personal grudge or a commercial agenda from doing the same thing? Sure, it's a lottery to see if your blog-rave captures any attention on /. or BoingBoing or Digg etc., but the costs are low and the potential damage high.
How can a reputable business (even one with a couple of justly unhappy customers; nobody's service is perfect) protect themselves?
Congrats on your grey market camera with no warranty (despite any claim to the contrary by either the seller or literature in the box). It's also not unlikely that you were shorted on the accessories, too such as getting a non-canon battery or a smaller capacity battery than the S70 normally comes with, no bundled software on the cd, no flash card (the real US retail boxed version comes with a memory card), maybe no strap, no usb cable -- that kind of thing is typical, but people generally don't notice.
But one thing is for sure, you got an S70; it's probably new and it takes pictures as well as any other S70, so if you are happy saving a few bucks, I guess you're happy. If you don't believe me about the grey market deal, call Canon's customer service and try to verify your product warranty. Hope that puppy doesn't break on you (but it probably won't.. it's a decent camera)!
Anyway, it's uninformed customers like you who contribute greatly to this problem here. Even the store in the article probably made more than a handful of people extremely happy with their low prices. It's fine if you want to buy stuff like this, but to just pass it off as the greatest deal in the world without stopping to inform people of WHY the prices are so low.
If you want to buy camera equipment online, there really are some good vendors with competitive pricing. B&H Photo and Video is top notch and they will do a lot of things to help you save money such as giving you the option to buy third-party warranties instead of manufacturer's warranties (which can be both less expensive and longer term), etc.
If you have any questions, you might just give them a call, toll free at:
888-365-4300
When I was searching for a Canon EOS 20D to replace my Rebel XT, I found a number of sites that offered extremely low prices on new, in box items I was looking for. I dug a little deeper into these companies and I found a lot of reports of the same types of tactics.
Usually, the company tried to sell them items that would come with the camera, like the battery, battery charger, and documentation. By the time these items were taken into account, the price had reached the price that you would pay if you bought it elsewhere.
My Sysadmin Blog
New York and New Jersey camera stores are famous for this. The general scam runs something like this:
1) Advertise an incredibly low price that gets people's interest.
2) Take their credit card order, telling them the item's in stock.
3) Within a couple of days, phone the customer to ask them if they want to buy the accessories pack. This usually includes most of the things that were in the box to start with - like the charger, kit lens, etc. These cost several hundred more, making the camera more expensive than it would have been via a reputable dealer.
4) If they refuse, try berating them.
5) If they still refuse, announce that the model is out of stock - even though it was confirmed in stock when they ordered.
6) Wait for them to either give in and take the terrible deal or, if they do finally cancel on you, charge a 15% restocking fee for the camera you never took off the shelf. Either way, you sit on the money from their credit card for the whole period.
It's a pretty simple rule in the camera community: If the deal's too good to be true, it is.
You can use online reputation sites but they can be rigged. The store keeps sale details and then enters their own perfect feedback for any that don't get consumed.
Personally, I limit to the following:
B&H, Adorama: Both very reputable stores. Some people have minor issues but they do genuinely work hard. You can pretty much use them as baseline prices - if it costs more, you're paying too much, if it costs less, it's likely a scam.
Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. By using major retailers, whilst you won't get a great deal initially, you can often find a 10% sale for reward card members, 5% back in vouchers on the sale (which buys memory cards etc). and so on. Be careful of open boxes here. It's not unheard of for say a Canon 20D to be bought and then a Digital Rebel to be returned in the box.
Dell - Crazy as it may sound, they do have some great deals. The trick is to use sites like DealMeIn or HotDealsClub to find out when they have a great sale on.
NewEgg - even with an employee discount from working for one of the major manufacturers, NewEgg was within $20, had free shipping, and got it to me fast - which turned out far better than getting it with my discount.
One of the many "badges of honor" on PriceRitePhoto.com's website is a PriceRunner award.
http://www.pricerunner.com/retailer/14312/reviews
Look through the list, and you can see 70% of the 5 star ratings are almost cut and pasted identical. Spelling errors matched post for post. It's so blatant that the review page has been put on hold while they verify the reviews. No doubt PriceRitePhoto trying to water down the negative feedback to protect their images.
Look for I purchased a Panasonic AG-DVC60 W/Pro Accessory Kit. I was very pleased with there selection of accessories in this kit, I believe I got the best Value for my buck. Also unlike most other internet ordering sites like this I found it very easy to talk to the sales and custumer service people. There was short waiting times on the phone as well as people who were easy to understand and willing to help me with my order from selection to delivery. I would recomend checking out PriceRitePhoto.com before making your next purchace.
Losers, how low can you go? Apparently PRP found an express elevator to ultimate lameness.
Here's what the business actually looks like. This is from the web site of someone who has been photographing the storefronts of mail order photo dealers in Brooklyn. The results are very funny. Some are mail drops. Some are bogus addresses. Some are homes. Some are tiny stores selling something else. Only one is a huge warehouse with loading docks.
It's a bit dated, but Don Wiss has documented the storefronts of most of the Brooklyn and Manhattan photo gear dealers. Some I would obviously never buy from. Others are just fine. A picture is worth a thousand words.
If you you wish to send them a comment via fax:
Fax: 1-888-375-6700
Or if you happen to wish to visit them in person:
PriceRitePhoto
1274 49th Street
Brooklyn, NY 11219
When I first heard about this yesterday, I was surprised. The victim in this tale is a fan (or employee? dunno) of flickr, one of the hottest social network web apps around at the moment. Yet when buying a camera, he didn't take advantage of them at all.
Look around any photography forum, every time a questions like, "hey, I just saw this camera at an incredible price at this store, is this a good deal?" people always reply with "check out resellerratings.com. How someone so technically and netsocially (for lack of a better term) savvy didn't ask around about this new store they were about to send $3k to is a mystery to me. Heck, a simple google search would've revealed problems.
There are so many tools out there to verify good sellers/companies to do business with. Why do you think B&H has so much business, even though its prices aren't rock bottom? They win on service and reliability, again and again. Of course, they're not perfect, but they've never failed me, and 'horror stories' with them are few and far between - especially compared to the volume they do.
Speaking of trust systems: I've had excellent results with ebay - buying from reputable sellers. There are quite a few chinese/hong kong sellers on there with 10-50k transactions and 1-10 negative feedbacks. I don't know *any* brick and mortar stores with those kinds of numbers.
this link will load pics from pricerite infinitely!!! that will show 'em! http://electronicchaos.com/pricewrongphoto.html http://electronicchaos.com/pricewrongphoto.html
This is apparently very common behavior for camera and electronics shops in Brooklyn. It's so widespread that some guy actually went around and took pictures of the actual physical storefronts for all of these online shops.
Very classy establishments, all.
http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/
make sure to call priceritephoto and voice your displeasure, 888-365-4300. skype allows free calling to toll-free numbers. ;)
slashdotting a phone number anyone?
Blog via SMS text messaging
Actually? A $2900 camera gets you a lot. You might not think you need it, but some people actually need full frame (35mm sized) sensors, 8 frames per second, and things like weather sealing and the ability to set the color temperature that the camera uses.
My Sysadmin Blog
"this guy gets a deal almost too good to be true and then finds out he almost got scammed."
now hold on there soldier, you and your fellow slashdotters may have the average prices for digital cameras built in to your brains, but is it that far fethched that this may not seem too good to be true to some people?
"we seriously need to change our perspective on reality. these blogs and bullshit just makes shit worse. why isnt a story about Iraq or something more important to us than some douche and his camera?"
i know you think there are more important issues out there, but i hardly think people are taking this more seriously than the war in iraq! should we have every news story about the damn thing? perhaps we should turn our back on all crime outside iraq?
You missed an important line in your quote. Right before the paragraph the blurp you pasted, it says:
"and yet another review I found on the company:"
Personally, I look at the T&C of any retailer I make a large purchase from. That's how I spotted the $100 fee for the chargeback.
Essentially, gotchas like that are a clear sign not to do business with someone. If they're that worried about chargebacks or bad feedback that they try to penalize you for either in the T&C or EULA, run far away.
Start a happiness pandemic
"Call them! Tell them you don't think this is okay! If we get enough of people on the phone to tie up their phone lines, we can run them out of business!"
_ Store_Threatens_Blogger
Users from Digg.com have already gotten this store removed from a couple of feedback sites, and have also been calling them nonstop...Check out the 779 comments so far.
http://www.digg.com/deals/Abusive_New_York_Camera
Very rarely is the company offering the very lowest price on a product also going to have good customer service. You get what you pay for. While I do agree this person got a raw deal, I'm also having trouble being massively sympathetic to someone who decided where to buy a multi-thousand dollar camera based solely on price. If you want good service, then you're going to have to pony up a few dollars more than "rock bottom price" to get it.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Thankfully there were review sites around when I went shopping to buy a camera a couple years ago. There were other photo stores that had the lowest price, but consistently had reviews about "forced accessory buying". My guess is that it has been going with one photo company or another since the beginning of the internet.
I wonder if retailers were pulling this stunt before the internet by running ads in shutterbug.
Many of the stores seem to be located in New York.
Just my observations.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
The only one who thinks it would be an appropriate response to drop by there with an NYPD plainclothes along, and then demand to talk to the owner?
Or just leave out the NYPD, and bust some kneecaps?
These guys are good. I bought my first professional 35MM camera from them back in 1980, and they are still alive and kicking. They have five stores, two in West LA, one in Santa Barbara, one in Pasadena, and one in Santa Ana. Not a fly-by-night operation by any means. Everything from consumer to prosumer to pro; video, digital or film.
Can't lose with NewEgg either if all you want is a consumer-grade digital camera. Again, in California.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Actually, Canon has the reputation of generally honoring the warranty on grey market products. You're right though in that any reputable dealer (like b&h) will clearly indicate when they are selling you a grey market camera (lots do at a slight discount).
What do you think it might cost to make those?
So if you've been extorted into providing non-negative feedback, you can always talk about how thrilled you were about the merchandise not actually being available and how exciting it was to wonder what charges were going to show up on your credit card bill this month and how happy you'd be about the merchandise if what you ordered actually ever showed up....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Actually, the website mentioned in the article is part of a chain of hundreds of websites all run by the same dishonest camera shop in New York. I lost a bookmark that someone had compiled that listed almost all of their websites, but they all share the exact same layout and graphic elements (the "Hacker Safe" logo is a dead giveaway) and they all list their bait-and-switch with Froogle/Pricewatch/etc.
I was searching for a Canon S400 and found one of these sites offering the camera for $100 less than anything even close. I knew it was too good to be true, so I called on the phone, illegally recording it but I wanted to have proof anyway. I asked specifically 1) was it refurbished (no) 2) was it the US model (yes) and 3) was it the retail version (yes). Okay, I figured I had all my bases covered, so I ordered it.
Warning bells went off when I got a call the next day from a sales rep asking if I wanted to upgrade the battery for only $15 more. Apparently, the battery that came with this model only lasts "30-40 photos" because Canon skimped on it. I was pretty damn sure a company like Canon wouldn't be so stupid, so after asking to call him back (so I could hit record on my answer machine) I asked if the battery that came with the camera was brand new and from Canon. Yes on both counts, so, I told him no thanks, just the camera and the "inferior" battery.
I received the camera and right off the bat I knew why it was $100 cheaper. It was the Japanese model. Basically, these a-holes had someone over in Korea or Taiwan fill up a shipping container with everything and sent it over here to the US. Grey-market. It's cheaper because of difference in currency, but despite being the "same" thing, it's not for two reasons: 1) Packaging...which isn't really important but 2) No US warrantee...which is VERY important. Also, US manufacturers can refuse to service foreign models (though they rarely do). Technically, your warantee is back overseas where the camera came from.
I called them and was told that was why it I was offered a chance to buy a warantee on the website. I pointed out that I paid for the US model, and did not receive it. I was told it was the US model it was just "imported direct from the manufacturer". I told them sorry, no dice, I want to return it. They said they would send me instructions. The instruction? 1) no returns without RMA number and 2) the only way to get an RMA number is to sign a form that you accept a 20% restocking fee. I took one look and called my credit card company.
Big plug here for Chase MasterCard. I have had to dispute six times in the four years I've had the card, and every time they worked FOR me against the merchant and made sure things turned out well. This time was no exception. The Chase rep sent me a simple form, where I checked the box "merchandise was not as advertised". For proof I send a picture of the website showing the model number (PowerShot S400) and the product box I received (IXY 400) Yes, they were the same physical camera, but not what I paid for!
I sent in the dispute and it was approved and I got my money back. Then the fun began! The merchant disputed my dispute, sending in a picture of a US box and saying that was what I received. Chase asked me to send them a different copy of the box, which I easily did. Then Chase informed me that I couldn't keep the product and I would need to return it to the company. I was pretty pissed about the concept of losing even $20 to ship it back to these crooks, but the helpful Chase person pointed out that MasterCard did not care how it went back to the company and suggested COD. (guinness)Brilliant!(/guinness) So, I packed up the camera and sent it COD without an RMA number. Surprise surprise, it was rejected and sent back to me. Yes, I had to pay the shipping both ways. But here's the fun part...I had attempted to return it and that's all Chase needed me to do. I sent in a copy of the shipping form and was issued the final resolution to my dispute: full ref
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Who buys a $2900 camera? What kind of question is that? People who want the features it provides. Duh, like anything else. As you noted a $290 camera is better than a $29 one. Well guess what? It keeps going.
The biggest thing you get is better optics. The main factor in picture quality is not how many megapixels something has, it's how good the lens is. Good lenses cost money. Also, on a camera of that price you get the ability to change lenses. One lens does not fit all. Of course the camera will also have a larger CCD, and a higher quality one. It'll also have lots of features, such as adjustable shutter speed, burst picture capability, and so on.
Now that's not to say everyone needs or wants a multi-thousand dollar camera, but there are plenty that do. Just because YOU don't have a need for it doesn't mean someone doesn't.
I end up buying the camera from a store in South Carolina and there were no problems whatsoever and I had it in few days with everything as advertised. That is when I decided not to ever buy anything online from shops based in Brooklyn, NY. No matter how cheap it seems. I seriously think this matter should be investigated and this shop is just one of many there.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
What you are seeing is the results of years of people being scammed by companies just like this one.
For whatever reason, this post has caused a flashpoint of activity as anyone who has ever been wronged by a shady New York camera dealer exacts revenge.
Honestly, I expect there's nothing for the people at the company to do now but run the shop under a new name, that one is done.
However I don't think the incidents are as isolated as you think. Just because they often get away with hoodwinking people into buying warranties and overpriced accessories does not mean they should get off scott free even if not everyone complains. They really are getting what they have coming to them. Even the complaints are not that isolated, just look at the horrible ResellerRatings score.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
RTFA'ed, and got FP.
my password really is 'stinkypants'
I ALWAYS read the negative comments for anything I buy. Happy people tend not to post, so absence of positive reviews is often (though not always) indicative of a good review, but if there are an overwhelming number of negative reviews, or a few VERY negative ones, I pass. There also need to be a large total number of reviews so as to be "statistically" valid.
Also, if there is no physical address listed or a phone number on their web page, I move on to another retailer.
They still list pricegrabber on their site
I also google for their phone number, and their address and check the location on a map. One vendor I was about to purchase from didn't show up on any maps (it could have been a new building, but better safe than sorry for a few dollars).
Lastly, never let ANYONE yell at you on the phone. Just hang-up. Crank Yankers was so successful because of the false politness of people on the phone or with strangers. And NEVER let him talk to your boss. This is a personal issue, not a work one.
I would buy a $2900 camera if I could. The 5D is a low-pro/high-amature level camera.
It gets you:
*12.7 megapixels.
*Very high light sensitivity. (ISO 3200 which is about eight better times your average digicam.)
*Low noise(It will look cleaner at ISO 3200 than your average camera at ISO 400.)
*Fast shutter speeds(1/8000th of a second.)
*Interchangable lenses(Let's see you do that for less than $600 new.)
*Filters, polarizers, hoods, and diopters for those lenses.
*Full 35mm size CMOS sensor(for true wide angle shots(think 7mm.)
*Start-up time less than 1/3rd of a second(Your average digicam has about 3-7 seconds start-up.)
*Pro quality and strength flashes.
*Ability to slave multiple flashes(think portrait studio.)
*Ability to control the exposure for HOURS if needed(I've done some neat stuff with long exposures.)
*Remote shutter control.
*Underwater housing.
*Fast focus-to-shot(near instant, better than the half second or more some digicams take.)
*Focus and track moving subjects
*More focus and light metering options(Get that shot right the first time.)
*Shoot 3 frames per second for 60 frames(See the dust fly off the baseball when it's hit.)
I could go on and on. This type of camera is overkill for your average mom wanting to take pictures at Christmas. It's a real tool in the hands of a creative person.
Show me a 12.7 megapixel camera for $290. Hell, show me an 8 megapixel camera for $290 and I'll show you a piece of garbage.
Not everone needs a set of $2,000 cutlery, but you wouldn't give a professional chef a knock off Swiss army knife to do your meal with would you?
This is why you need one-time credit card numbers. Several banks offer them. You generate them on-line as needed, with a precise limit and timeframe, and you can even revoke them if they haven't been charged.
But still beware of fake reviews. And if you find a smaller site without any mainstream reviews, that's probably okay. I run a couple niche sites and do okay moneywise, and when people call asking where my store reviews are I tell them we don't have any because of our market. One guy I told this to was overparanoid and talked down to me. But there are thousands of honest merchants with good products so don't let stories like these get you down, just used trusted sites for electronics.
Oh one other thing, as far as chargebacks go, it's very easy to get one and the merchant is actually at total mercy of the honesty of the customer.
Disclaimer: As always, this is not legal advice. If you get legal advice on Slashdot, you need your head checked.
Depending on the state you are in, it's not always illegal. Many states permit recording so long as one party is aware of it. So you are free to record all phonecalls you make since you are aware of it. The reason call centres warn you is to ensure there aren't any legal problems anywhere.
Check your local laws but it's allowed in a large number of states.
Oh, but you were really talking about high-priced cameras. The high-end stuff usually does cost an order of magnitude more than the pretty good stuff when it first comes out, and if you're a professional photographer it may make sense to buy it. If you need whatever this year's version of really high resolution is, with really perfect optics, really good color definition, high speed, and able to plug in a wide range of professional-quality lenses and similar frobs, yeah, you could spend that kind of money. On the other hand, if you're going to post pictures on a web page, a $99 camera and Photoshop is probably overkill. My general preference is toward the $49 range, e.g. a camera that would be $29 with a couple of features fixed, like removable memory cards instead of built-in, and slightly better batteries and maybe a flash. But I mostly take pictures to remember travel and family get-togethers, and 1024x768 is more than I need.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I would imagine an IRS investigation would reveal tax fraud. There's simply no way that crooks this heinous are playing honest with the IRS.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
You are probably right about the results. But perhaps it is a good time to think about the implications. A blogger - an essentially anonymous individual can deal a whole lot of damage to a company. Could you tell with 100% certainty if he made the whole story up?
I honestly do not think that just any blog could have an impact like this. His has the advantage that a LOT of people have been screwed over in this same way - not the same level of abuse, but having to buy extra things they didn't want. My guess is that 90% of the 5000 Diggs were people who had first or second hand experience with a camera deal gone sour.
Also, there is a lot of external verification - like I said just check out ResellerRatings. The score is 4.something, which is quite horrific.
It's the combination of personal experience plus external validation that has given this particular blog entry the power it has. I think it would be very hard to fake any kind of complaint that would have this level of effect, certainly not without being correctly quickly. If the story was a fake I think you'd see a lot of corrections here on Slashdot laying out just why the complaint was unfair.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
No idea. CMOS and CCD sensors can't be too cheap, though.
And if you think the price of cameras is bad, you should look at the price of lenses. To get a decent telephoto lens for action/sports photography, you're looking at a minimum of $1200 for the low end model and over $10000 for the 600mm lens.
My Sysadmin Blog
If you have no clue about computers, Open Source is just as awful experience as flying if you have no wings.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
... but how much does a clue cost?
My understanding of online taxes is that businesses charge tax only if they have a physical presence in the state the order originated from, i.e. warehouse, storefront, offices.
He's not talking about sales tax, he's talking about income tax. Even if you only sell intrastate, you are still responsible to pay income taxes on the profits that you make.
The IRS is the one organization that you don't want to fuck with. Remember, these are the guys who took down Al Capone.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Recently I bought a new camera. Before buying, I researched a lot. I went through several message boards and read the messages, including the negative ones. Even the best stores will have at least one or two negative ratings. One place some people where I work dealt with was Genius Cameras. I looked into them and it seems that one person was the exception to the rule and had a good experience. The other person ran into the try and sell you the standard accessories at huge markups or we don't have the item in stock. The reseller ratings for the place were horrible, like 0.1 on a scale of 0 to 10 so I looked elsewhere. I finally settled on 17th street photo and must say I had a very good experience dealing with them. I got one phone call to verify my order and no one tried to sell me anything else and it was promptly shipped. Their prices were a little cheaper than B&H photo, and their reseller ratings were actually a bit higher.
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
News doesn't have to be 'new information' as in 'never happened or reported before'. It can also just be a recent event/happening.
The story is perhaps everywhere because people can relate to it and are glad to see someone trying to strike back and want to help? Which is something worse all together because it means this is happening to A LOT of people.
Did you complain when you saw some dude strike back at a spammer? I doubt it, you probably applauded.
And no, I don't think your karma is going to explode unless some moderater nazis decide to just be rude!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Who buys a $2900 camera? Thomas Hawk does. Why? Well, lookie here at his flickr pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/51035555243@N01/
When you can do that with your $29 or $290 magic picture box, come back.
If you place an order with some outfit and someone calls you back asking for some or all of the same information or to verify this or that, that's red flag. A properly designed site run by an honest company gets the info right the first time and verifies your credit card number when you initially place the order. There is no need to call back and "verify" anything.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller8613.html
Customer Satisfaction
Six-Month Rating: 4.39
Average Store: 7.23
Seems like they are selling the product only if you buy overpriced accessories with them. This is very usual thing to do if you start to read the stories of customers that have bought stuff from the lowest scoring stores.
?SYNTAX ERROR
Over all I've had good experiences but I just went through a nightmare with of all people Amazon.com. Between two separate orders there were multiple mistakes including order duplication with multiple billings. At first they gave me the form letter brush off but I persisted and after several days and countless e-mails I finally got it all resolved. I told them that I'm hesitant to buy off the web again period and don't expect any more orders from me. They seem surprised that I was so upset about all their screw ups. It was over $300 in books and DVDs so it wasn't a small order. The initial response always seems to be it was your fault. Well order duplication and failure to ship even after an order was reported to have shipped is hard to blame on the customer. I discovered a cute trick. If an item is on back order their supplier can claim it was processed so you can't cancel the order and you get stuck in limbo until they can fill it. Pretty sleazy. You can save a lot of money but there's some real risk involved even with major established compaines.
or just do what I did...ring up a $150,000 order, take it all the way to the payment screen, and leave it. Once you put in bogus data, they'll have to call "you" back, unless they want to run the risk of losing an enormous order. That, with the resulting 20 page requests, ought to tie them up real good. That is, if they monitor carts.
blah blah blah
This happens with bigger names too. Case in point, Alienware, despite their reputation for quality, seems to be taking a hit. I'm not happy with them either, but I won't say why until the issue is persued further.
I wanted to make a correction to your post, sir. You see, my dictionary informs me that you made some spelling errors. "Steve Phillips" should be spelled as follows:
Douche Bag
I can see how you may have gotten the letters mixed up. For more information, you can visit my ass.
"Who buys a $2900 camera anyways?"
I paid $1700AU for a 5MP digital SLR about 2 years ago to "play with" long exposures, a comprable camera is now worth about $1000. They won't get much cheaper unless they use inferior optics. Considering the non-optical specs I'm guessing 5MP SLR's with good optics will disappear from the shelves (if they haven't already).
A co-worker of mine paid $1500AU for a 2x speed CD drive (including mounting kit and software) in the late 80's, about $3000-4000 in today's money.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Who buys a $2900 camera anyways?
I did - and it's everything I expected it to be. No multiplier, very low high ISO noise. I assure you, if anybody was buying a camera to say they spent thousands on a camera, they'd all be buying 1Ds MkIIs - only $7,249.99 at B&H. It's the only other camera you can buy new right now that supports a full frame sensor.
For a lot of people, a camera is a toy/accessory/whatever - for quite a few others, for whom photography is a passion or livelyhood, it's a lot more. If your 5D allows you to get 5-10 shots your 20D (a $1300 camera) wouldn't be able to make, it's just paid for itself. If the lower noise and higher dynamic range saves you 10 hours in post processing, it's paid for itself. Heck, if it allows you to use your 16-35 as it was meant to be used and avoid getting a 10-22, that's almost half the difference right there.
Learn the first rule of social interaction: not everybody is like you.
I was just trying to give the original poster a break and not slam him too hard. You are right though that you can be pretty sure that no customer passed through PriceRitePhoto without accessories being bought or an order being canceled and that is just how it is in New York City.
Some of the stores will at least relent though if you basically say you already have one of whatever you offer, and you don't want the warranty because you plan to throw the device away after a month. But it's super unpleasant and it's hard to tell which ones will actually send you anything.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They've gone worse and worse over the past 18 months, too! Ebuyer is still cheap with loads of goodies and their website is easy to navigate, but I'm sorry to say their customer service is plain shite. Don't shop with ebuyer. If anything goes wrong with your order, don't expect it to be sorted... ever.
They don't do email, just "enotes" (which will take you an hour to send because that particular part of the website is so slow it loses connection all the time) and phone. Phone is expensive, and enotes they read and reply to weeks after... if they feel like it at all. I'm trying to have a conversation with their main man "david" but with weeks between replies, it just seems silly. They operate in the US too (I'm in the UK). Maybe if they piss-off someone enough in the US it'll get ugly. Here, they just hope you'll get bored and give-up, and go away.
My misfortune? I ordered a 120GB seagate drive, received a broken 200GB maxtor covered in finger prints. Difficult to argue "you sent me a drive I did not order and it's broken" when "david" says ebuyer or their warehouses don't do mistakes... Yeah right, do you remember last time you sent me an AGP card when I ordered the PCI version? And that time last year when my order turned-up weeks after chrismas even though I paid extra charge to have it delivered on time? My current problem has been going-on since last summer. I have a feeling I lost the money.
Well, least I can do is warn you not to buy anything from them... and don't trust me, check the other reviews online!
Was this intened to be +5 Funny?
this kind of hateful bigoted filth should be banned from Slashdot.
in my country, we put people like you in jail. inhuman racist scum.
One can always do a whois on the domain name. The integrity of the registration information is another story though.
Not all NE dealers are a scam. For example, B&H and Adorama are, and I say this with tongue in cheek because they're run and staffed primarily with jews, kosher.
Actually, B&H is one of the best benchmarks to see if you're dealing with a site that's bullshit or not. If it's got a price that's significantly better than B&H's, it's probably a scam.
That being said, I wouldn't buy from any site in Brooklyn.
These fuckers are just as bad. I boguht a SOny camcorder at a good price and received a similar experience. Long story short, they added $40 to my order and there was fuck all I could do about it short of suing the bastards.
cLive ;-)
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
Sorry, but amazon doesn't try to sell you overprice accessories, nor do they threaten to charge a "restocking fee" for items they will never ship if you cancel, plus they don't charge your credit card until they ship your item. That said, they do seem to have issues with properly estimating the the availability for anything that they don't have in stock, and I have repeatedly houded they customer service about this (the number is something like 800-750-7575 [slate.com prints it every year])
Generaly B&H and Adorama, etc. will actually do the warranty fielding themselves on gray market items. What they do (replace, send back to import country for service, etc) I have no idea, but they at least honor it. Its a sign of a reputeable store.
I deal with a lot of different online vendors. For something this bad, I'd definitely remember, but often I have experiences that are just slightly annoying, and I don't remember a few weeks or months down the line. However, my computer never forgets. One way to have the mind of an elephant is to add a bogus entry to your system's "hosts" file. On Unix-like systems, this is /etc/hosts. On Windows it's c:\windows\system\hosts or similar (depending on versions) I believe. To block shopping at shopper.example.com, try adding a line like:
127.0.0.69 shopper.example.com www.shopper.example.com
The 127.0.0.* network block is all local addresses on your system, and would never be routable. So, if you unknowingly click on a link to a site you decide you don't want to go back to, just add it to the hosts file and requests for the site will never complete.
Sean
Quick! Canon EOS 5D. Used. Often sold but never delivered! There's only one left at the CRAAAAAZY price of $2899. Call on 888 365 4300 to let us know of what you REALLY think about this great offer. Better still, email us at sales@priceritephoto.com Problems with the order? We can ignore you just as effectively if you email to customerservice@priceritephoto.com Like our motto says, "caveat emptor, suckeris'
I hop I am missing a joke somewhere .. but on the risk of sounding silly for missing the joke ... ,but the roots of revelling in the religion (Than and the rather cool distinctive costumes).
I always associated Hasidic Judaism with the works of Rabbi Israel ben Eliezer , with great interest in the non academic side of Judaism
Ripping people off would really not be very Hasidic and would call for a great deal of penance .
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
You're my hero today.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Some one mentioned to use them in an earlier post. What credit card companies offer them and how do you go about making them? Would gift cards be the same thing?
The difference is, there's no Moore's Law for optics. A 20 years old high-end camera is still a high-end camera, although a lot of features will be missing. A friend of mine is a brilliant student photography at an academy of art, and he works with an 25 years old professional Nikon set. True, he is the only one still working chemically, but it doesn't matter. His set has good optics.
This is the reason Leica is still not dead. They having big troubles getting their first(!) digital camera out of the factory. But Leica's are still sold. The optics of a Leica are second-to-none. Photoshop can't replace good optics. A lens is something of flesh & blood.
Trust me, I work for the government.
.... but my camera's still on order.
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
Well, this make the guy's remark "I will make sure you will never be able to place an order on the internet again" quite ironic. Seems like Thomas Hawk is the type of photographer a lot of shops will boast about him being one of their customers.
Trust me, I work for the government.
Al Capone waited in a theatre for the police to come and arrest him. I wouldn't say the IRS 'took him down'. They did get him on tax evasion when he was in court though. That must have been gutting.
A block of code, sufficiently well-written, is indistinguishable from magick.
I was having a dispute with one ISP and I started recording the phone calls. I confronted a member of their management staff with the recorded phone calls. He told me that the phone calls were recorded illegally and that I could be charged with a crime.
I then played the beginning of one of the recordings to him:
"This call may be recorded for quality assurance purposes."
I said "that's the sound of your company giving me permission to record these phone calls." He was not a happy man, but they sure became a lot more helpful in resolving what had been a service nightmare. And the tech support people stopped lying.
This is not all Hasidic Jews . I have no real knowledge of the Local Hasidic community over there , but even if it were to be true (which i doubt , but honestly do not know) that would not be cause to say that about all Hasidic Jews . The Talmud still applies to their branch of the faith and mistreating Gentiles like this is wrong .
.. I kid I kid )
In my experience Hasidic Jews are not hostile to gentiles and are really rather nice people (at least the ones I know) , That book is apparently written by just one nut. Though the article does have a lot of quotes that are totally out of context .
Just as with all peoples , there are some members of the community that stray from the path . This is not a reason to tar everyone in the community with that brush .
After all , It would be wrong to think America was up of people like G.W Bush, all Arabs as Terrorist or all Scottish people as stingy (I am though
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Likewise, please consider the case of Mexicans and Blacks. Mexicans are infamous for killing their girlfriends when they get in disputes. Blacks are famous for carjackings. But if you read what they think of as their holy book (The Holy Bible), it is clear that stealing and killing girlfriends (or just premarital sex) are forbidden. And if a black or Mexican were to do those things, he'd have to do a great deal of penance.
Wow. Just wow. Have you any idea what you've just said? I am at a loss for words. Truely breathtaking ignorence. I mean, have you ever even met a black or hispanic person in your entire life? I tell you; you've got to get up early in the morning to be this ignorent. No really. It takes effort. You might not like this guy's comments, but you have to admire his dogged determination to be as big an asshole as he can possibly be.
However, as you may or may not know, Hasidim have different standards for cheating Jews vs. cheating gentiles. It is part of their religion. A hasid published a book on this recently, and it is a big deal, because he lays it all out: http://www.rense.com/general48/newbook.htm -- where Orthodox Jews recommend to other Orthodox that the gentiles are evil and a different species. And that a Jew should deceive them about their true feelings -- e.g. don't tell the gentiles that you think they are evil, and of a different species.
Yeah, maybe this guy did write such a book, and maybe he does think its OK to rip people off because they're not a member of [insert clique here]. If he does, then he's an asshole. If anyone does things like that then they're an asshole too. I have no doubt that there's at least one Hasidist out there who rips people off; because Hasidists are human beings, and there are rotten apples in every batch. But on the main, I know that Hasidist are by and large OK guys. I know this because statistics tell me so. And statistics is mathematically and scientifically verifiable. Which is of course, something you're opinions can never be.
You need to get out more and visit your local bazzar. That or read Roots or something.
May the Maths Be with you!
this link will load pics from pricerite infinitely!!! that will show 'em!
Yeah, it'll cost their hosting company a fortune!
If you ever get some schmuck retailer (meat or cyberspace) you just call the credit card company and say you lost the card... Tell them you've searched high and low and can't find it... tell them you think you got pickpocketed in a train station you passed thru... whatever...
They'll cancel the card and issue you a new one. When the crappy retailer tries to charge the old #, it's declined...lost card.
End of problem.
If they charge the card b4 you report it lost, then deny the charge. Call the CC company and dispute the charge - all you have to say is "it's an unauthorized charge". They'll reverse it pending some sort of resolution process... Then call up 2 days later and report it lost... When the shithead retailer tries to charge your card again, it's "declined...lost card"...
end of problem...
If you get some retailer threatening you on the phone with *whatever* bullshit they pull out of their ass - just say "We're done, any charges by you are considered unauthorized and will be refused. Never call this number again." and hang up. If they call back, file a complaint with the local PD for harrasment by wire (that's what it is called in IL). File complaints with the FTC, and local state attorney general's office.
If they cost you one dime, file a small claims action in YOUR state, in YOUR jurisdiction and have them served in their jurisdiction. They're not going to show up - and you win by default. You then file the judgment, and turn it over to a collection agency who can then harrass the shithead retailer... You probably won't see any $$$, but turnabout is fair play eh?
Finally: Caveat Emptor. Just because it's the Internet, doesn't mean you don't have to take care just like you would in the real world...
Citibank is one company that offers free "virtual account numbers" for their credit cards, to help protect you from CC info theft when ordering online. I don't know of any others that do right off, plz chime in if you know.
(Assuming you have a credit card with them) you log on to the website and the program generates a different temporary card number that bills to your regular card. The virtual card has a 1-month expiration date, and only acccepts one single charge (I found that out the first time I tried to use the same virtual account number at three different online retailers--the first one went through, the other later two got rejected. I had to send them each a different virtual number). This way you don't ever need to use your real card number online, and the number you do give is always different, and it can't be charged multiple times,,, or even at all after two months at the most. (prevents logged CC numbers at online retailers from getting hax0red and used later)
There are probably a lot of reasons to not like Citibank, but this is one thing they have done that is very good.
---And of course this would not have prevented the situation from happening, but it certainly cuts down on the possible excess charging that can be done. I don't know what other credit-card companies do it, none of the rest of mine do, but I don't use any other credit-card for online transactions at all anymore.
~
I don't buy from NYC area sellers. I include New Jersey, Rockland County, and Long Island in that zone. In fact, if I can't get it from somewhere on the left coast, I generally won't buy. FYI, I was raised in Queens.
Best regards.
Paraphrased from techbargains.com. Just price match off of these guys. Have the credit card companies deal with them.
TPC says:
Your facsimile job to +18883756700 is delayed in the scheduling queues because:
Blocked by concurrent calls
Sounds more like Jack Thompson :)
This is the sig that says NI (again)
Anyone else notice how many times B&H came up positively in comments? Makes me wonder if they're really good- (there's a PICTURE of their nice storefront & the comments tend to be good ones/not entirely focused on praising B&H) or if they put a lot of effort into "viral marketing".
I don't know of any others that do right off, plz chime in if you know.
Discover does have this feature as well.
Jim
...a decent slashdotting of phone and fax might suffice to force a little reorganization of his business (read new phone and fax numbers).
C - the footgun of programming languages
Their email tells the user to leave a five star review at shopping sites using the following link: http://www.priceritephoto.com/priceritephoto/offer .htm and the text below: **Please do NOT mention this in the review, we do not offer this to all our customers. **Please do NOT mention my name or the fact that we asked to write a review the websites will not post it. This will also make you eligible for FREE shipping on any accessory purchases in the future
Well at least that explains how they manage to keep thier review ratings so high. And the people who actually fall for the bait and switch will be the ones most likely to fall for the FREE STUFF line as well.
I'm not a member of any of these shopping sites but I wonder how the sites will react if someone submitted the above link to thier complaints departments.
Quantum Physics a.k.a. sub-molecular statistics
I've run an on-line business and a call back to verify is *not* in itself something to be suspicious of. If you place a high-value order with a retailer, and it's the first time they've heard of you then any sensible business will contact you by phone just to check that everything is in order. This is especially the case if you've requested, for instance, delivery to somewhere other than the card address - e.g. invoice to home address, delivery to work. Some businesses will ask for particularly large orders to be confirmed in writing.
Of course, trying to get the customer to buy something extra is a big no-no.
The first conversation, the first paragraph, if true is a cause for disbarment proceedings at a minimum and probably criminal as well. At least to the point where you could get someone to inquire into it. Get the person's name and let them know you are contacting the State Bar to file an action. Then let them know you are calling the State AG, Fraud div. Then let them know you WILL put something online and you WILL trash their reputation and it will wind up being the most expensive few dollars that company ever screwed someone out of.
When someone goes nutz like that over the phone, I've found that just laughing at them seems to work.
While persuaded may mean 'to succeed in causing a person to do or consent to something.',dictionary.com
it can also simply mean 'to plead with: urge'.webster.com
So it could be possible he was persuaded to sign a document, but refused.
The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.
But it costs them even more money if you call them from a payphone thanks to the FCC mandated payphone toll free recovery charge.
Check up yet another long time poster where Slashdot is now becoming a place to read the comments rather than anything new and informative. Thanks to another thread that suggested digg.com was faster at breaking the news, and not a whole lot less accurate either.
During lunch time yesterday I was reading the posted blog and all the comments left after someone posted the story on digg.com. I gotta say that 80% of Slashdot articles are "scooped" on digg first, as I have set up both Slashdot and Digg as RSS feeds into my google.com/ig page.
This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
TargetPC Inc did me, so I posted the story on the blog that my wife and I maintain. Now when you google "TargetPC Inc" you see my bitch about their lameness third, I made sure resellerratings knew about them, and I tried to warn pricewatch users, but they fill their own feedback on pricewatch up hoping to snag the unknowing. Revenge is high google placement about how bad you suck :-)
1 1/730033.html
http://luxton.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2005/5/
"If it's got a price that's significantly better than B&H's, it's probably a scam."
Not always. I've gotten some great deals from two places...
Buydig
Dell
Yes, Dell.... but only certain times of year when Dell will run online coupons for x% off cameras and accessories. You'll typically get stuff well below prices you can get anywhere in the world. I've been waiting for another sale, because the new Canon 24-105L lens.
But your basic point is correct. B&H is the benchmark for online photo places, although I prefer to do business with Amazon.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Things brings back bad memories for me. I had a very similar experience with this same merchant a year ago, and I wrote the attached letter. I sent it through the mail to the New York BBB and the PriceGrabber offices out in CA. At that time (October, 2004), I spoke with a PriceGrabber rep on the phone and they removed PriceRitePhoto from their site. So how come these bastards got listed again?
To whom it may concern:
I am writing this letter to describe the experiences that I have had with a business called PriceRitePhoto.com. Their address is:1274 49th Street, Brooklyn, NY 11219 and their customer service phone number is (888) 365-4300. I found this business through the PriceGrabber.com website and attempted to purchase a camera from them. However this company was more interested in lying to me and manipulating me than selling me a camera.
I am spending my time and effort in order to inform you of the dirty tactics used by PriceRitePhoto.com with the hope that my story will save other potential customers the headaches and lost sleep that I have endured. The manager of PriceRitePhoto.com has already tried to silence my opinion through bribery and extortion but I think that the potential customers *deserve* to know the business strategies employed by PriceRitePhoto.com before deciding to do business with them.
I understand that I am the kind of customer that PriceRitePhoto.com doesn't want. I am an informed consumer and a comparison shopper. If they had simply been honest with me and told me that they were unwilling to sell me the Canon Digital Rebel camera unless I purchased some other accessories, I would have just found another company from which to purchase this camera. I probably wouldn't have submitted a negative review on PriceGrabber.com - I just would have gone my own way. But what I got instead of honesty were lies and manipulation, and I think these strategies are completely unacceptable for a professional organization and ought to be publicized.
I first read about the Canon Digital Rebel camera more than a year ago, and I instantly wanted one. However I was not able to afford to purchase one until recently. Several months ago I began researching the Digital Rebel and several other cameras in preparation for a purchase. I found the PriceGrabber.com website which offered reviews of many different merchants selling this camera, in addition to their prices. I saw that the various merchants fell into several different strata - about 7 or 8 were in the very lowest price range, from $799 to $850 including shipping. I found a merchant in the middle of this price range with a high rating and mostly positive reviews: PriceRitePhoto.com. I knew that I would also need some other accessories with the camera, and I planned on purchasing a USB 2.0 Compact Flash card reader and a Compact Flash card. I found that PriceRitePhoto.com had a USB 1.0 CF reader for $49, but did not offer a USB 2.0 reader. However Best Buy sold a USB 2.0 reader for $15, so I drove to purchase this item at Best Buy. After some research I decided that the CF card that I wanted was the Lexar 80x 1 gigabyte card. I looked on the PriceRitePhoto.com website but found that this merchant did not offer this card for sale, so instead I purchased it from TigerDirect.com.
So the only item left was the camera. On Thursday, September 16th, 2004 I placed order #7490 from PriceRitePhoto.com for a Canon Digital Rebel camera with 18-55mm EF-S lens for $799 plus $24.80 shipping. I thought I was getting a great deal at this time, but I had no idea what abuse I was in store for.
It began on the following Sunday, September 19th. I received an email at about 11:00 am, stating that I needed to call PriceRitePhoto.com to "confirm the information on your order". This is where the deceptions began, because the real purpose of this phone call was not in fact to verify my order information, but to sell me some additional items. What follows is certainly one of the most unpleasant experiences that I've ever en
Really should link to the digg story. It has 5k+ diggs and 800 comments, mainly people describing various ways to get back at them, and even some recorded phone prank calls.
r e_Threatens_Blogger
http://digg.com/deals/Abusive_New_York_Camera_Sto
I've had to cancel my credit card on the advice of my credit card provider."
Why should he have to cancel his card? He never did anything wrong, PriceRitePhoto should have to pay HIM for his time wasted.
This consumer horror story ranks as one of the WORST I have ever read. On a 20/20 or some other news/investigative TV show I saw a couple years ago, this same kind of scam was being perpetrated by several camera stores in New York City. After seeing that show, I would NEVER buy anything from a New York City store. Unfortunately for the unknowing consumer, they had several different scams being perpetrated by several different stores in the city. When the show confronted them about it on hidden camera footage, they tried to deny their scams, and it was sickening. I just would not want to take the chance of getting ripped off, I would pay the extra money elsewhere with a more reputable business, and ALWAYS read the negative comments about any retailer.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Ditto. I hesitated to post positive comment on a specific store for maybe being labeled a shill, but I I'll chime in. I've purchased nearly 2 dozen system lenses and bodies from B&H http://bhphotovideo.com/ usually 1 or 2 pieces at a time, over the past 4 years. Had to return a defective Canon 1D, and that was handled well. They don't have the most rock-bottom prices, but, then, dealing with them is not a typical NewYorkCameraStore risk. Their prices are always better than local prices. I got good enough deals that I've been able to Ebay some of the equipment I no longer needed for little or no loss.
Amex was doing this a while back, but I don't think they do anymore.
Who else does this?
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
The author only claims to be a hobbyist.
Steve Phillips apparently assumes he is a professional,
and supposedly then should know better(?),
since he's buying a $3000 camera.
There is no credibility issue.
The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.
I think I'm going to order the PANASONIC TH-50PX50U 50 In. HDTV PLASMA. Does anyone have a credit card I can borrow? Hey, wouldn't it be great if you gave the sleeze bag his own credit card number?
The merchant doesn't even get the money till around a month after the purchase, by which point you've paid your bill.
If you act right away the money hasn't even changed hands.
Actually, the BEST solution to prevent this from happening is to buy locally, instead of from some anonymous, no-name place because they have the best price, or instead of a giant retailer that just doesn't give a shit. I have -zero- sympathy from people who expect to get a price at or below wholesale, AND fantastic customer service. Quite honestly, this guy got what he deserved.
I've told myself that I'd pick up a 5D as soon as the price dropped below $3,000. I've been regularly checking both Yahoo! Shopping and PriceGrabber for a while waiting for one to drop. Well yesterday for the first time I saw that the 5D was for sale for $2,899 at PriceRitePhoto.
Why did this guy buy from this place? Oh yeah, because he could save 0.37%. That's just stupid. Maybe if consumers these days wouldn't be such price whores, they'd have 1. better customer service experiences and 2. we'd still actually have towns and cities with stores in them.
Replying to parent just to get this near the top. The following link will load images from their site to infinity: http://electronicchaos.com/pricewrongphoto.html
I'm a professional programmer (education, job experience), but currently working in a different domain. Still programming for a hobby though.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
How about "caveat emptor"?
TANSTAAFL.
I don't know about you, but every time I deal with a retailer - internet or face to face - I have an 'option plan' to follow if the transaction fails. With internet retailers it's typically "lose the money and get screwed" - that's the 'risk surcharge' you take when dealing with ANY remote transaction, be it by phone, mail or teh intarweb.
Yes, you are getting a lower price from them, they have to, to compensate you for the implied risk. If you cannot accept the risk, buy it from a bricks and mortar store that you can at least burn down if you're totally pissed off.
This is kind of like the folks that buy an XBox360 a week before release for $100 on ebay and are shocked that they get taken to the cleaners.
-Styopa
Until I searched for information on them and found they are notorious for exactly this kind of behavior. They had the best price ever at the time on the Canon Digital Rebel, 220.00 cheaper than anyone else - BUT, I got lucky and decided not to risk it. Highly recommend B and H Photo - I've bought almost all of my camera equipment from them, plus an ipod - the prices are reasonable, and they are very very professional and courteous.
While posting something negative online about a person, product, or business is certainly nothing new, I think it's very interesting that we're starting to see some of these become internet-wide phenomena and in some cases even capturing the attention of the more mainstream press.
It's one of the (in my opinion, relatively few) things that could quite literally only happen online. With the advent of free blogs and such, almost anyone anywhere can post a message intending to call attention to negative behaviour of someone or something. It can then be linked to, blogosphered, slashdotted, forummed, digged (dugg?), viral-emailed, wikied, and so on, infinitely. We're seeing the birth of a new application of the internet: the network as a tool of disorganised justice.
I, for one, find this at once exciting, slightly frightening, and certainly interesting. The idea that networked ordinary people can do what law-enforcement authorities worldwide cannot is exciting. This genuinely has a chance to change the world. The frightening aspect is that much of this information is instantly taken at face value and unchecked, and the human tendency toward exaggeration is always a factor: if an innocent person or business were shamed in this way, it would be tragic.
It will be very interesting to see where this concept takes us. Hang on, folks, it's going to be one hell of a ride.
Andrew Lenahan http://www.starblind.com/
All camera retailers on or offline that are based in the state of New York are crooks.
#include <sig.h>
All this guy had to do was hang up the phone. If he got charged then he could dispute the charge with the CC company. There is *NO* way the seller has right to that money and its the CCC's problem after that point. The CCC has more time than resources than the average consumer and will get to the bottom of the matter. Furthermore, as soon as a charge goes into disupute status, the CCC withdraws that amount of funds from the sellers escrow account. So if they want that money they are going to have to come get it.
Looks like the retailer is just Racking up the charges.
With their acts of Conspiracy, Fraud, and Deception.
I hope one of the major news outlets pick this up. Because people Whom act in this manner do not deserve to be in business.
Sign on the Dotted line? this is F#$%ng Extortion!
Actually, most of these stores are Jewish-owned and operated. It's not the Russian or Italian mob. Ironically, most of them are Orthodox and observant. A lot of the families that own and run these shops live up in Monsey and New Square and other little frum enclaves upstate. You would think that being religious might have some correlation to ethics, but unfortunately, this isn't always the case.
I bought a DV camera from Butterfly Photo in NYC. I did receive a call back and asked to buy a few accessories but I declined them. I was happy with the purchase but they may have changed sales practices since I ordered from them last year so YMMV.
Check out this site (probably will not survive a slashdot beating long), dude was doing undercover work for rec.photo.digital and tracking these shady places down. Some of these places are nothing but a garage or small office. Butterfly Photo was actually one of them but they let him come inside and take pictures. As odd as that seems, I actually found the linked page while researching BF prior to ordering from them, I considered that gesture a positive thing that maybe they really did not have anything to hide?
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Anyone who has hung out in NYC knows that electronics stores are a dime-a-dozen and anyone who is not a tourist who has had occasion to enter one of these stores knows that they suck you in with low prices displayed in the window and then try to pressure you into buying overpriced accessories. Oldest trick in the book. The tourists go in because they need something and wind up with several hundred dollars worth of crap they didn't need because hey, it ain't like this in Pocatello, Idaho!
So now these guys have moved into cyberspace and gee whiz, they're still doing it! Only now they're smarter, because they have your credit card info and they can just ring things up and leave you to do all the legwork to fight the bill. And they win, because not everyone has the guts to stick with it and nail their hide to the wall. In the end, enough people play sucker to make it profitable.
Simple rule: buy your electronics at a name-brand store. Don't buy it over the Internet unless you know the retailer (they have a website and you've shopped in their store before) or have researched them. Always contact the Better Business Bureau to see if their are complaints. Google them. Do a little work before you buy and you won't have this problem.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
This is the Whois for priceritephoto.com.
Damnit Eduardo!
Registrant:
PriceRitePhoto
1274 49th Street
Brooklyn, NY 11218
US
Domain Name: PRICERITEPHOTO.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
PriceRitePhoto
Eduardo Lopez
1274 49th Street
Brooklyn, NY 11218
US
(718)404-6404
webmaster@priceritephoto.com
Domain created on 22-Jun-2003
Domain expires on 20-Jun-2015
Last updated on 01-Nov-2005
Domain servers in listed order:
NS0.DNSMADEEASY.COM
NS1.DNSMADEEASY.COM
NS2.DNSMADEEASY.COM
NS3.DNSMADEEASY.COM
NS4.DNSMADEEASY.COM
Current Registrar: DOMAINDISCOVER
IP Address: 209.200.8.186 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-NEW YORK-JERICHO
Record Type: Domain Name
Server Type: IIS 5
Lock Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Web Site Status: Active
DMOZ no listings
Y! Directory: see listings
Secure: No
E-commerce: No
Traffic Ranking: Not available
Data as of: 21-Oct-2005
www.qsopht.com ~q
Short-lived? Four seasons? Ok. :-)
But the name of the character is Harvey Lipschultz.
And the actor who plays it is Fyvush Finkel.
So, you probably mixed it up.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Just out of curiosity, why are so many of these dealerships located in NY/NJ? Is there something in the laws of these states that makes it easy to do this type of stuff?
You don't think these guys are as big crooks as any of the Brooklyn warehouses? I guess you've never been on the receiving end of their insipid sales strategies.
Why even consider dealing with anyone other than B&H or Adorama? It's not worth the potential hassle to save a couple of bucks.
If you live in a major metropolitan area, you may be able to buy locally, but if you live in, say, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, you're just plain out of luck. For example, I wanted to buy a "Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM" lens (about $1600-1800), and I tried to find it locally. No luck. Then I tried the major stores. They don't carry it either. I searched anywhere with a website and local stores, and I finally found it listed in stock... in New Orleans... in the flooded part.
Needless to say, I ended up making yet another purchase from B&H, as they have extensive inventory, respectable prices, excellent service, and (perhaps most importantly) a long history of existence. It's just not an option to buy locally in Baton Rouge.
There are dozens of similar outfits all over New York City. It's an open secret that they're basically all fronts for various ethnic Mafia organizations. Primarily Russian, Israeli and Syrian, but with ample representation from just about everywhere else on the planet. Whoever the actual operator of "Pricerite" is, you can bet your last quarter that they already have half a dozen other D/B/As, maildrops and websites up and running already, and that they spin up and down various identities all the time.
...but if you're just a consumer and not a sociologist, you would be well advised to avoid the heck out of any online "camera store" with a 11xxx or 10xxx zip code, with the possible exceptions of J&R and B&H. Caveat Emptor, to say the least.
From a sociological standpoint, these are fascinating organizations, especially in the way that they sometimes slowly, over time, evolve into "proper" retail outlets, (e.g. J&R Music/Video)... and sometimes "devolve" back into criminality (e.g. Crazy Eddie).
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
I had a similar, although not-so-bad experience with bestpricecameras.com. Google searched for the lens I wanted for my D70, a Nikkor 70-300m G lens, they showed up as a sponsored link and claimed to have the lens for $109. I ordered it online through their web page, which indicated the lens was in stock.
I got an email the next day asking me to call and confirm my order. WTF? With most online retailers, you confirm the order by, you know, placing the order and entering your payment information. I fired back an email saying 'consider it confirmed.'
2 weeks later, they still haven't touched my credit card for the lens. I call up, navigate through their voicemail (fortunately it's a 1-800 number, so at least they're eating the cost), and talk to the guy who I'm supposed to call. He tries to upsell me a UV filter, because if I'm using it with a digital camera, and I take photos outside, I'll "get a lot of glare off the CCD." Now, I put UV filters on my lenses anyway, just for the sake of keeping crud off the lens while I'm shooting, so I was planning on picking one up anyway. I asked the price, he said $50. $50, for a filter that goes for $10 at any camera shop around here.
I told him forget the filter, just ship the lens. He said okay.
1 week later, they still haven't hit my card. I call back, ask about the order number, now they tell me it's out of stock. This is while I'm looking at their web page, which claims they have it in stock. I told them to just cancel my order, and fortunately they didn't give me any shit over it, I assume because it was only a $109 lens instead of a $3,000 camera.
Lesson learned: never order from a camera shop in Brooklyn.
This story hit digg early yesterday. Then it hit Metafilter a few hours later. Looks like /. is a liitle slow on the uptake.
went to www.bb.org, did a search for priceritephoto and got this result: http://www.bbbnewyork.org/businessreports/Default. aspx?id=1026
The website here is called "Let's Go Digital" but the phone number is the same, also provides their address and contacts
Principal: Jack Heffner, Owner
Phone Number: (888) 766-4442
Additional Phone Numbers:
(718) 645-7809 (718) 336-5492 (718) 787-0817
(888) 447-0011 (888) 740-4880 (888) 365-4300
(888) 375-6700
Fax Number: (718) 645-7809
Lets Go Digital
1643 McDonald Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11230
Website: www.lgdsuperstore.com
"Based on BBB files, this business has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau because it failed to respond to one or more complaints."
http://expresscameras.com/welcome.asp Is also a shady grey market seller. They sold me a grey Nikon D100 that had dead pixels, and a photocopied manual. I also got lenses with dirt on the INSIDE of the glass. This might be the same company. I had to send the camera back 2 times before I got one that only had 2 dead pixels. At that point I had to leave on a trip so I could not return the camera. Don't buy from them. They also used to go under the name Hello Cameras.
Why would someone stay on the phone and be verbally abused by this rube for 20 minutes? Call American Express and they'll remove the charge right away.
deja vu: this story (and the pcworld article linked from it) almost perfectly describe what happened to me when i attempted to use froogle to buy a monitor last month. the phone calls that went nowhere, the arguments with sales managers about why a camera shop in new york would tell me i needed to buy a power adapter for my "international" model, and then, the eventual shutdown when i refused to budge.
after trying several places, i eventually spent $100 more at newegg, and got exactly what i wanted almost immediately.
i suppose this is a strong argument agaist froogle which, afaik, doesn't spend nearly as many man-hours policing its sellers as the other aggregators mentioned.
It will be intersting to see if Elliot Spitzer goes after this kind of scum like he did Wall Street.
When he called on day 2 and they said it wasn't in stock why didn't he just cancel his order instead of threatening the "company"? I mean really what was the point of threatening the company with writing a story about their (at the moment it wasn't) bad service over shipping of a camera that they did or didn't have in stock?
Majority of the sites do NOT have real time stock information that updates after every order placed. This guy brought all this on himself. None of this would have happened if he had just cancelled the order after calling the 2nd day and being told it was out of stock.
They gave you credit for a broken monitor and you are complaining? Its an open box, you got the monitor for on the cheap, used for three months and still came out ahead. I mean, it would've been nice if they could've repaired it for you. But I think store credit is more than fair. You are just mad, you couldn't get a cheap monitor for the specs you wanted.
Less than a year ago, I was looking into purchasing a Panasonic miniDV camera, the GS120 model if I remember correctly. I saw an ad in the back of DV magazine, so I checked them out. I did my research (on the camera, unfortunately not with the company) and finally decided that was a good price, and place an order. Within minutes I got a call back from a salesman telling me that I needed to buy a battery. I replied that I had already purchased a battery, and that I wouldn't be needing one. He insisted that I read him the model # of the battery (I started to see what was happening at this point) so I did, and he said that that battery wouldn't work with that camera. I politely informed him that it was listed on Panasonic's website as being compatible, which he immediately disputed as being incorrect. I said that I was not going to buy a battery.
I then told him that the ad on their website said that it came with a battery. After about 30 seconds of silence, he said that the battery that came with it was only a 6-minute battery. Now I looked at the website again, and the SKU number of the listed battery was the same as the battery I already had, which was a 2-hour battery. Now I saw full-well what was going on, and decided to cancel my order right there. He warned me of the 15% restocking fee, where I promptly reminded him that the order had been placed literally less than 15 minutes ago. There is no chance that the order had been filled yet, so a restocking fee was out of the question. I also politely informed him that if any charges were made to my credit card, that I would be notifying the police, the better business bureau (which I notified afterwards anyway), and the credit card company.
I was really surprised that he agreed to cancel my order and I never saw any charges on my account (which I watched for months, and still watch.) After reading this account, I'm really shocked to see how easily I seemed to resolve the situation. Perhaps this guy was relatively new to the scam and hadn't built up the nerve yet. I ended up getting my camera for less than he sold it on eBay, brand new.
I never really looked into it, but its rather interesting how the online photo/video stores seem to be a big portion of the sales scams. I guess something with a lot of accessories makes a great medium.
(Note: I can't really remember the name of the store/site, or else I would list it here, but I know that it wasn't PriceRitePhoto.)
And they said zombies weren't real!
I know credit card charges can be a drain on small businesses, expecially for small transactions, but I was pissed. The local pizza place's minimum order requirement, despite being in direct conflict with their merchant agreement, wasn't displayed anywhere but the register (pay after you eat) and they tack on a $2 surcharge. On top of that, the guy wouldn't refund my buddy his cash, so we could combine the orders and meet the minimum. I told him to charge the card, but it would be more trouble than it was worth. I took a picture of his sign with my phone and sent the pictures and a receipts to Visa. They cancelled the charges outright and his account got yanked immediately.
The next time I went by, he actually ran out to his doorway and yelled about how I was ruining in his business and taking food out of his kids mouths. I told him I would buy lunch there more often, but he doesn't take Visa anymore.
I can understand how this Con artist got a good rating on Yahoo Shopping. Yahoo has been neglectful in removing spam artists even after many complaints. I personally classify Yahoo! as a spam and scam support service. Years ago, Yahoo joined with a company called S.B.C. (SouthWestern Bell Corporation). The company I worked for supplied call center services to S.B.C. S.B.C. is known for signing up its telephone subscribers for Internet without their knowlege or permission. It is also known for its deceptive billing practices. I would rate SBC Yahoo ethics the same if not worse than that of Sony.
You know, some people just seem to ask for it.
I recently went to purchase a Canon Digital Rebel 350XT SLR. I wanted that sucker bad, and since my wife turned up pregnant with our first child (finally!), we wanted to take great pictures of the pregnancy and newborn. So, I did my homework.
I spent a lot of time researching camears first, and then looked at possible vendors. There seemed to be a lot of names I had never heard of before, and that inner voice just kept screaming out "Check these guys out, even if they are $100 less." So, I did.
Fake reviews to bump up a vendor/seller is nothing new. Read the favorable articles, and look for the negatives. That will give you all you a lot of information. The favorable ones will often read like a Blizzard fanboi stroking himself over an announcement that his favorite character class just got a buff!
Typical reviews read like: Timely delivery! Great customer service! I love these guys!
Really, when I want to review a product, do I care about timely delivery? It's being shipped by UPS or FedEx ground or air. Of course it's freakin timely! What you are reading is what is known in the fire service as the "Surround and Drown" technique. If you surround a fire with enough hoses and dump water on it, it WILL go out. Well, the objective is to surround the negative reviews with enough crappy good reviews that the score stays fabulous, much less respectable. (I think I may have just coined a new internet shopper expression: The "surround and drown reviews"!) So, right there, you can throw all those reviews out. Maybe internet rating places should take any review that mentions "timely shipping" and throws it out within a week. ARGH!
And like our intrepet internet shopper finally figured out, you have to read the negative reviews, which are often very well written. Why were they unhappy? Now, if they were written in the same infantile manner as most of those happy-happy reviews, ignore them. But, if they were written well, think about it. Someone took the time to write a decent arguement that the vendor isn't worth shopping at. That speaks volumes as to their disatisfaction.
Me, I finally bought my camera at Dell, which was very competitively priced at the time with a $100 instant rebate. The camera arrived in a (Gasp!) timely fashion! Woo-freakin-hoo! (Sorry, couldn't resist.) But, seriously, I had a good experience with Dell when I bought my wife and I new PCs, and the camera purchase went just as smoothly. It's a name I know, and pretty much trust.
Am I a fanboi of Dell's? No. I tried being a computer manufacturer's fanboi twice. Once with Apple (got tired of no games to play) and once with Gateway (wouldn't even think of looking at my broken PC because I upgraded the OS, even though the AMD processor went dead). Won't happen again. But, they haven't shafted me (yet), either.
If you challenge the veracity of the reg. info. and it comes back bogus, they could yank his domain.
Looking at their ebay profile and feedback, there certainly are a number of transactions that were less than smooth, but there are an unusual number of negative feedbacks that have been withdrawn with follow up comments like "It's all about Isaac. Any problems-talk to him. He's the man to get it done. Tks" and "Rough start but a smooth finish--Thanks Isaac!!"
Still far more anamolies than I'd care to subject myself to, though.
Like with consumer electronics, there's a lot of fraud. So places like Newegg are extremely careful about where they ship and give you the 3rd degree if you want to ship to come place other than an address on the credit card. However electronics parts are very low fraud, so places like Newark will ship where you want with no problems.
Guinness has a commercial where two guys are constantly saying brilliant!
digg is faster and better about getting news.
;p
slashdot is moderated.
pick one
Whether done with debit or credit, there's something consumers can do, and that, boys and girls, is called a "chargeback"!
It's a very simple call or a personal meeting to a manager at your bank stating that someone ripped you off and you would like your money returned to you.
The company has to do a lot to prove the charge was valid. If they actually ripped you off, then they won't go out of their way to dispute the chargeback.
In fact, this works TOO well. One time I ordered a product from overseas - the payment was processed the next day and I received an email saying the package shipped a few days later. Two weeks go by, no package. I contacted their company with emails and calls where they assured me that the package was shipped. I requested proof of a tracking number or receipt for the shipment, but received no response. I became suspicious of the situation, so I charged it back.
Not only did I get my money returned to me, but a few weeks later the product finally happened to arrive. Oops! But hey, they failed to assure me that I wasn't getting ripped off, so I did whatever I had to do to make sure it didn't happen.
People severely underestimate the power of the consumer.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
Want $80 off your next PriceRitePhoto.com purchase? All you have to do is post a review of them the major ratings sites and email a copy of your review to them.r _new.htm /. reader refuse?
They have conveniently left links to their feedback page on each major site at:
http://www.priceritephoto.com/priceritephoto/offe
After you post the reviews, you have to email them a copy at
reviews@priceritephoto.com
to get the coupon. This is a great offer! How can any
I am a happy online shopper when it comes to items around a $100 bucks, but knowing that a fair amount of electronics I bought did not even leave the store before I asked for a replacement, after seeing a scratch, a dead pixel or not working at all. I am talking about all kinds of stuff, my last one being a DV cam with 3-4 huge dead pixels (all white) next to each other on the LCD..... but I opened TV boxes in the store with cracked CRT and tested 3 feet bubble massagers at Pricesmart - all broken.
I would never buy anything that has a CCD, LCD or moving component inside. Especially in a world when a bubble bath (from a leading manufacturer) would come broken from the store.
I mean if a pump comes dead by default, what should I expect from micron technology ccd lcd enabled technology that is put in the mail and kicked around by "who cares" postal service employees.....
Not me...
Oh did I forget that a good 75% of US companies cannot copy an address so it is not missing parts from it?
Last case : amazon marketplace, my paid expedited shipping DVD is in the lost mail for 2 weeks now because people think that part of the address is just decoration and when that part makes you actually receive the order -> you are screwed.
If it is a $20 DVD game, it's OK I guess (NOT),
but when it is a $3000 camera I would be sitting in my bank doing my chargeback
more ont he story: it is an outrage, and I would have been recording the conversations after the first call, then sue the shit out of these crooks.
I also agree, they did not want to ship, because they make the MONEY on the overpriced accessories...
I've seen a number of times articles on slashdot taking an accusatory stance against those who have sued customers for "slander." Frankly, there are a lot of companies who abuse the law, but also a lot of people that attempt to hide-behind semi-anonymity as well. If you could nail another company for slander it might work out, if it's a private individual or group with a grudge you'll possibly end up looking like a litigious asshat.
a) Show item as in stock, net an order.
b) Call customer attempting to sell overpriced accessories
c) Customer only wants cheap item from (a), tell him it's not in stock
d) Customer cancels order, charge him/her a restocking fee
However, if (c) were true, there's no item to restock, because there was no item in stock. Also, given that (a) showed the item as in stock, it should have been if this were a reputable merchant.
So basically, either it's in stock and you get your cheap camera/etc, or it's not and there's no need to restock because there never was an item to restock in the first place.
Yup, sounds scammy to me.
Anyone want to start up a Google Base list of crooked retailers? Much better than a wiki or a forum and a great use for the system....
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
I wasn't making any "wild accusations of impropriety." I was just trying to point out that the mafia has better rackets than operating shady camera and electronic stores. I wasn't trying to tar all Jewish business as being shady either. Obviously, B&H is a good example of a reputable Jewish photo/electronics store. Nobody Beats The Wiz was too, before they were bought up by Cablevision. Also J&R Music World. But for every one of those, there's like a dozen of these little warehouses in Brooklyn or the west side of Manhattan. I'm just speaking from personal experience, being a former Broooklynite (Crown Heights) and having done business with some of these and being able to recognize a Yiddish accent or the fact that a guy named "Moishe Stern" is probably not Italian-American. I'm sure some of these are probably owned by Catholic or Orthodox Poles or Russians, too. There is a major Eastern European element in these businesses, as well. I'm sure some of them are even Indian or West Indian. It really doesn't matter. Someone made an accusation that these were mob fronts, and I wanted to point out that the majority of them probably have absolutely nothing at all to do with the mob. God's Duck has it right, though, it's an issue of demographics more than anything else. I was really just trying to dispel the myth that any kind of foul business based in New York or New Jersey is run by the mafia. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Sopranos is probably the worst thing that could have ever happened to our area in terms of public perception. Now everyone thinks it's cool to be a mobster and that everyone, particularly anyone Italian or Russian, in New York is a mafioso. You even have a lot of these rappers and such acting like they're mafiosi and giving themselves Italian pseudonyms. It's very upsetting to see this kind of thing glorified and to have an entire community's and an entire region's reputation sullied by it.
Geez.. I'm so tired of "this was on Digg first". Then go read f***ing Digg.
Digg has 1/10 the audience that Slashdot has, and the comments there all seem to be written by 16-yr-olds.
If Slashdot doesn't get the story first, I don't care. The user base that provides the comments is the real value of Slashdot.
If you want it first, by all means go somewhere else. But quit bitching about Slashdot's business model already. It isn't going to change, and it doesn't matter to 99% of us that someone else had the story first. The very nature of Slashdot is that EVERY story is somewhere else first.
Who gives a flying f***?
"I have as much authority as the pope, I just
don't have as many people who believe it" - George Carlin
What, are you an idiot? They refused to honor their agreement. In other words, they lied to and defrauded him. And you think it's unreasonable to get mad about that?!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Fear the Interwebs and their many denizens, for they hold your fate in the grasp of their noodly appendages.
sig not ready: (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail.
So which is it: "professional" or "hobbyist"? There's some credibility in the balance here.
Hmmmmm. What could those quotation marks be telling us? What do those brackets mean? Dang!! Shoulda paid more attention in class I guess......
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
BB refused to honor the contract they entered into. Businesses often do this type of thing as they know most people will give up rather than fight, and if the people do fight, the businesses can salvage the situation by simply doing what they were supposed to in the first place.
GP was right, he/she should have sued. It's one way to make businesses not act this way as once a case is filed, the customer usually has the right to court costs above and beyond their damages. It's not much, but it makes the business worse off than if they had just complied in the first place.
But I think store credit is more than fair.
Not if they don't have anything else you want as much as you needed the monitor. Sure you can get stuff, but you can't use the store credit toward the purchase of a similar monitor somewhere else (since they no longer carried anything similar) and if that's the item you need a spiffy new DVD player won't cut it.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
Doesn't sound like it. Just because they wrote something vague on the sticker doesn't mean that it's a contract. Their actual policy probably says that store credit will be granted and does not provide for repair or replacement. That's exactly what they did, so there is likely no legal case here.
Federal regulation E governs debit card transactions, and provides similar windows of opportunity to dispute and charge back suspicious transactions. Reg Z governs credit card transactions.
Reg E is your friend.
The power of credit card companies does not come completely from the federal regulations they operate under (which are primarily concerned with providing "cooling off periods" and required disclosure), but rather from the fact that you are their customer, not the store. A credit card company will always give more weight to the consumer, because the consumer is who pays their bills (not the store). It is the same thing with banks. VISA on your debit card DOES make a difference, because VISA puts their name and consumer brand behind your satisfaction, in addition to your bank.
The only disadvantage to a debit card is the lack of credit limit...so if someone steals the number, they can empty your bank account before you know anything is wrong. You're just as likely to resolve the situation as with a credit card company, but for a time you might not have any cash for food, gas, etc. But again, most major banks have the same fraud monitoring software credit card companies do, and will cut off activity that is obviously suspicious (like rapidly emptying an account on large purchases).
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I wonder if retailers were pulling this stunt before the internet by running ads in shutterbug.
Maybe not Shutterbug, but print ads in photo mags had their share of shady characters.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
I've been submitted spamvertised sites with bogus registration info for months, and there are some registrars that never correct info, despite numerous reports, obviously false data, and even following up with Registrar Problem Reports.
A good example would be THIS LISTING for brightpants.com, for which I submitted a report 2 months ago, including responding to their followup, and the info is still bogus.
I was too lazy to write up a how-to like you did. It's good info to put out there though.
I also ordered from butterfly photo. They called back to offer accessories and a warranty and to confirm my order. I actually haggled with the guy online and got him to match the best price online I had seen for a spare extended life battery.
I received the camera and extended life battery shortly after. Good experience for me.
Typically the laws (in the U.S. anyway) only govern disclosure and consent, not purpose. In other words legally it would not matter *why* the call was being recorded, only that both parties are *notified* that the call is being recorded and given a chance to end to the call.
Continuation of the call after notification is typically interpretted as consent, even if you are arguing about whether you can be recorded or not! The only way to deny consent is to hang up the phone.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Unless Digg says no--then we cut off its hand and drop it down the ventilation shaft.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
... you're already posting as AC, and I'm curious: what market were you in that got hammered so badly?
DG
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
I cannot believe this is marked informative. This is about the stupidest thing you could possibly do.
Reporting the card stolen is going to look strange when the merchant produces all of your personal info that was recorded when the sale was made. You could even be charged with criminal charges for attempted fraud and theft.
Claiming it is an unauthorized charge is similarly stupid. The merchant will produce proof that you did initiate the deal, and agreed to a contract. Done deal. The credit card company will side with the merchant, and you're screwed.
The stupid games with "never call this number again" are pointless, and you will be ignored. They are not harassing you as they are conducting business, and have a legitimate reason to contact you.
But the really stupid thing...there is NO reason for these shenanigans! All you have to do is call the company, and ask for a chargeback. You explain the circumstances, and that you have been unable to resolve the issue with the merchant. The credit card company is required, by law, to take your side in a legitimate dispute.
By playing stupid games and lying, you can blow your chances at getting a good resolution.
Wrongo, please play again. BB writing on the box that BB will honor the manufacturer warranty is a contract. BB offers potential contract and customer accepts when they purchase product. Most any small claims judge would find for the customer. The customer would need to document that they went reasonable lengths to let BB resolve the situation. The customer would also need to show that store credit would not be enought to purchase a comparable monitor. That last is the kicker and I would think that a comparable monitor could be had, though problably slightly worse specs.
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
I have bought from them; they are indeed as good as everyone says. I know plenty of pros that purchase a heck of a lot of stuff through them too -- when you are buying a $9,000 camera, the sales tax savings alone are enough to send you looking online, and it's B&H that gets their business most of the time. B&H gets stock of new products on time, the stock shown on their website is accurate, and they wont call you about your sale unless there really is a problem.
Every small New York City Electronics store I have ever been in has done these same type of things. Back in the 80's a guy tried to sell me an original Game Boy for $200, but he had openned the box and tried to sell the included items for even more. I went to another small shop, and another and found exactly the same thing. Even at Circuit City I get lied to about half the time, at Best Buy I haven't caught them lying, but they certainly don't seem to know what they are talking about the majority of the time. It's not like the guy in this shop is some type of anomalous criminal, I bet he is in the majority.
I've successfully bought from B&H numerous times. They are definetely not scammers and the deals on import film are great. Some equipment package deals are good too.
However, the customer service is pretty poor and I would agree that they seem to deal with my wife differently than me (over the phone). That said, they've always processed returns & exchanges including a refurb camera that was DOA. They just don't do it with a smile.
Its been my experience that they might not carry the products in store any longer but BB, FS, CC, Staples all have special order programs which you could use your store credit to get the monitor you want.
These guys are just classic bullies, all threats and no action. The truth is, he'd never be able to collect that $200 "cancellation fee" even if it was on their website, as they were effectively the ones to cancel the order. The best approach with a bully is to hit him in the nose, and he'll go away. Next time someone threatens to charge you $200 for a product you didn't receiver, just let them. They probably won't charge you, and if they do, you don't have to pay the bill.
I have a few friends who ordered from places like this, and the best bet is to cancel the order as soon as it becomes clear they won't ship. No need to listen to their sales drones or whatever. And shame on PriceGrabber for listing such sleazy resellers-- they are the problem, promoting these false prices when they obviously know better. I'll stick to DealCam and avoid these shenanigans.
And I enjoy the fact that most stories have had some time to ruminate with many of Slashdot's readers before posting comments. I don't think comments would be as insightful if every user had just read the article for the first time.
One hopes this will to for (or to) Price Rite what exposure on Slashdot has already done for Sony-BMG. I'm personally surprised that this company doesn't already change their name every few months just to shed their past image.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
While Pricerite seems to be grade A jerks it is immature to try to DOS their website.
Complaints should go through normal channels. A few comments up there was a guy with the opposite perspective. He had an online store and was blown out of the water by a "conspiracy" that likely was due to the competition not liking him. He seemed like a nice guy.
So, what guarantee do you have that Pricerite aren't good guys and all the testimonials you have read are fictious? You would only need maybe 10 fictitious online identities to achieve this.
I think Pricerite probably deserve getting shafted. But not this way!
Sheesh...
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
Bought a Casio camera from them in '01. It arrived without the IBM Microdrive that was supposed to come with it, and when I got in touch with them, they sent me a replacement, hassle-free.
Make me aerodynamic in the evening air
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
I guess the Mafia is alive and well... Maybe they were really in Jersey? :P:P I'm teasing. But this really SUCKS! I love Froogle, but I know I'll definitely think twice before buying from anyone not reputable.
Jho
Sorry man... the Internet pooped on me.
WTG people! Don't let the man hold ya down... and all that other hippy jazz! :-)
Wouldn't it be great if there was an ISP who wasn't shielding spammers, scammers, and other crooks from angry victims? Wouldn't it be fantastic to send a complaint to an ISP about a scammer and have the ISP reply back with something like:
A man can dream...
I think you may have misread a bit. I paid very near full-price for a monitor that Best Buy assured me they would uphold the warranty on.
I bought open-box only because it was the last in stock that day, and I needed it quickly.
When I returned it, they would neither repair nor refund-- only store credit, for a monitor whose original warranty was for three years. They no longer carried anything comparable, so the store credit broke down like this:
1. Get $600 credit.
2. Buy best monitor in store, a $400 unit that could not match the specs of the one I was replacing.
3. Have $200 left and a monitor not as good as the one they promised to replace.
It's not that "it would have been nice," they quite clearly promised and did not uphold the warranty. I was not "out for a deal," I needed a monitor and bought the last one in stock that met my needs. I did not ask for anything from them beyond what they promised. When I purchased, I asked, and they assured me that they would repair or replace the monitor with a comparable model EVEN IF they no longer stocked them. Straight up lied.
Stuff breaks. I'm not mad about that. But they broke their word (printed word, even). Like I said, if it had happened today, I would be in small claims court getting my money back-- but that was six or seven years ago, and I wasn't quite as prepared for that then.
They tried to fuck with me and I beat them back.
Last year they tried to dispute deductions for alimony payments. The deductions were perfectly legit. I had done my homework before making those claims.
I provided all the evidence they asked for, they still disputed. Unfortunately they picked the wrong time to mess with me because I was all fired up from getting ready for my divorce trial. When I got my CPA involved and fired back at their disputes USING THEIR OWN IRS PUBLICATIONS to prove my case, they finally relented with the original tax return unchanged.
This was a case of some auditor who did not know their own system too well. Nothing nasty ever happened, I was lucky to have all my paperwork organized, they had a tiger by the tail, and I can write a very firm and convincing letter. Even my divorce lawyer couldn't believe I got off the hook.
You CAN dispute the IRS if you know what you are doing.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Nah, you just assumed a bunch of crap, rather than ask me what the sticker said in more detail. The policy specifically mentioned repair and replacement as the ONLY things that they would do, and they failed to do both.
It said (in large letters):
"Best Buy will honor manufacturer's warranty.
(in small letters, paraphrased):
Best Buy will repair or replace this open-box item with a similar item of equal or greater value for the length of the original manufacturer's warranty.
(out of the manager's mouth when I verified):
We'll repair or replace it, even if we quit carrying that model.
If they had made as much as a peep that they would not, I would have simply driven to the Best Buy across town and picked up a new one there. Since I was assured rather thoroughly that there was no more risk with the open-box unit than with a new one, I went ahead and skipped the extra 40 minutes of drive time.
Since they could neither repair (they apparently don't have the facilities) or replace (since they no longer carried it and were unwilling to order one from the manufacturer), I think a refund would have been reasonable. Since they had apparently stopped carrying high-end monitors altogether (not only could I not get a monitor that matched specs, they didn't even have any monitors at a similar price point), all store credit could get me is an inferior monitor and $200 of leftover store credit I had to blow on crap I didn't need or want.
If they had such a program, they denied it's existence when I asked them directly (at the store, at another store, and on the phone with customer service) if they could order me another equivalent monitor to use my store credit on. Perhaps the program didn't exist in early 2000? Or perhaps I just got luck-of-the-draw and hit five or six people at multiple locations who were unaware of it and unwilling to ask someone else.
Taken from http://thomashawk.com/2005/12/apology-letter-from- ed-lopez-owner-of.html An Apology Letter From Ed Lopez, Owner of PriceRitePhoto I received a call this morning from Ed Lopez, the owner of PriceRitePhoto. We spoke at length and he told me that the activity that has resulted from my post on my experience with his business has most certainly impacted his business. Mr. Lopez told me that he was calling to apologize and that Mr. Philips was going to be terminated at a company board meeting later on this morning. He confirmed to me that they do have the camera in question in stock and although I am not interested in purchasing it from them at this point indicated that he would sell it for me at the advertised price. Subsequently Ed sent me the following email: "On behalf of Priceritephoto I would like to sincerely apologize for the negative experience that you have experienced with our company. As a company this is not representative of the way we treat our customers. If there is anything that we can do at this point to rectify the situation, please let me know. We have tens of thousands of happy customers who have purchased form us in the past and it is our commitment to give our customers the best value when dealing with us. We are doing a comprehensive review of our company's procedures to ensure that something like this never occurs. We have also terminated Mr. Philips from his position with our company." Although I do not believe my "Steve Philips experience" was an isolated case by this merchant (and certainly the other testimonials suggest that this is in fact more of a common practice by them), my own personal view is that any retaliation towards this vendor should be channeled through legitimate and legal channels. Although some of the crank phone calls are actually pretty funny I think that it is better to take the high road in this case and to use legitimate resources where they exist, whether reporting them to the comparison pricing services or contacting the Attorney General (as I have done) or reporting them to people like the Better Business Bureau. I think that the popularity of this story comes in large part because the message resonates so strongly with all of us. Although in a sense it is the classic tale of David and Goliath retold, it is much more than this. We all have at one point or another in our lives been bullied and most of us have been defrauded or ripped off. The fact that so many times in the past there was nothing we could do about it makes us feel all that much better about the fact that in today's internet and blogosphere we actually CAN do something about it. It is tremendously empowering for all of us to be able to turn the powerlessness that we felt in the past into justice in todays' blogosphere through the help of things like Digg and Slashdot and Boing Boing. And although every rip off does not receive this level of attention, I believe this story in a greater sense is representative of perhaps thousands of rip off experiences that we have all suffered in the past and been able to do nothing about - some directly with this vendor, some directly with New York based camera vendors like this one, and some with just fraudulent internet businesses wherever they happen to be located. Because we in the past have had to live with the bitterness of our own personal frauds, our feelings towards the popularity of this story is that much stronger - as is our desire to retaliate. This being said, I again would encourage everyone to take the high road with respect to this vendor. I believe that the power of this story and the ultimate outcome, whatever that may be, will carry much more weight if as a public we handle things responsibly and do not resort to illegal tactics or harassment. Although there is a sense that we all must feel that these folks have gotten what they deserved, I think it would be a far greater legacy for this story to have if change takes place in legal a
http://thomashawk.com/2005/12/apology-letter-from- ed-lopez-owner-of.html
Guess they had a sudden bout of guilt and shame?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Having a look at the profiles of people posting positive reviews here is good for a laugh.
1 .html
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller8613-p4-s1-d
The profiles all look the same and were created within a couple of days of one another, and they are so ridiculoulsy glowing it's funny. Gee. They look genuine to me.
You should have known that those links on google searches were 99% frauds. The situation is so bad, you need to look up every google search result on resellerreviews.com. My experience with these frauds is you not only get lousy service, you never get the product you ordered.
For cameras, my best experience is with B&H. For electronics it's newegg. Everything else is pretty much a fraud.
Here's the actual place of business for PriceRitePhoto and it's aliasesh tm
http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/h0134.
Contacted reseller ratings -they've added the aliases, and they're currently investigating the company.
Time to send an email laughing that they've been slashdotted
If you have any issues with any credit card, all you need to do is call the credit card issuer, explain the problem, and tell them that you don't trust the merchant and that you want the old card cancelled immediately and a new number issued.
I think that is from all the ratings they have got in the last day (between Digg and Slashdot).
Adventure City Tours
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Maybe you are a stand up guy, but the fact of the matter is if you're running your business out of a closet in your house and your partner's garage, I'd like to know that. It means, all the polish you may have been able to put on your website aside, you are not a company I can trust. There is no real loss for you walking away from the business, there is no established history, as demonstrated by being big enough to have a real warehouse with a real sign, and not some shady back room in a shared building.
There is no such thing as an internet business -- there is just business. And either your business shows traits that suggest it should be trusted, or it doesn't. I wouldn't buy a $3000 camera from someone selling it out of a closet in person any more than I would online. I might buy a $20 pack of film though... and its through those sort of sales that a business can generate the history to be trusted with large transactions.
I wish you the best of luck with your business, but this isn't 1998 -- people should not just blindly trust your company is legit even though it has no physical presence, just because you've got an excuse that you are cutting costs.
Catch 22! Can't make money to pay for bandwidth because their site is down :(
www.qsopht.com ~q
Actually, I think that's been done ;)
Yahoo is a pit of spammers and scammers. Anyone who would ever buy anything from something in Yahoo shopping is a complete fool.
I see, the warranty period was a lot longer than three months, three years, then I still don't understand why you didn't call up the manufacturer to get warranty service, if it was covered for three years. But I guess I don't expect much of Best Buy, or any other chain store for that matter. They lie about warranty service all the time.
I don't think it was a lie, it was more of an misunderstanding. When I purchased, I asked, and they assured me that they would repair or replace the monitor with a comparable model EVEN IF they no longer stocked them. They did replace it with the best monitor they had, to you it may not have been comparable, but to them it was the only choice. I mean if they didn't have it in stock, should they have bought a monitor from another company just to keep you happy, which would've cost more than 600 dollars, give you credit, or give you 600 bucks in cash. I think they upheld their side of deal, at the same time, I hate Best Buy with a passion, and wouldn't buy anything there if I had a choice.
Per the parent poster: "You missed an important line in your quote. Right before the paragraph the blurp you pasted, it says:
"and yet another review I found on the company:""
So there was an experience like the grandparent described, but it was to ANOTHER person, NOT the subject of this article.
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I love you naive people talking about bitching to Visa or Mastercard and having them loose their credit card account. The only people MORE slimy than these "discount camera" stores are the credit card processing companies. After talking to a typical processing card salesman makes you want to take a long hot shower... Pond scum looks down on them.
Since when can't Jewish people be gangsters? I bet Bugsy Siegel, Meyer Lansky, and Irving Wexler would love to put a cap in your ass! That being said, I agree with the parent poster, that I couldn't imagine any of these ultra-orthodox types being mixed up with the mob....but its certainly possible. Not to mention the Russian-Jewish mob...
Just like there are bad Christian merchants...there are bad Jewish Merchants. And lots of good ones too.
I worked for both best buy and officemax as an electronics salesman, and I personally garentee that sales practices at both are atrocious. As for scamming? Officemax managers developed a little no maxassurance no refund policy and my best buy managers had their dump ink cartridges in their cart while they're not looking policy. They got worse from there but I wanted to get that little bit out there.
And mail fraud is a federal offense, 18 U.S.C. sect; 1341, carrying a potential 5 year prison term.
...and here's my story, aptly named "The Customer is Always Wrong". The retailer was over-the-top abusive and profane. I guess there's always someone who feels they're right, when they're obviously in the wrong.
Has anyone else besides me ever noticed that NewEgg applies shipping costs on a PER ITEM BASIS?!?! Personally I find that sneaky and opportunistic, because if I order a lot of small, lightweight items, they make a killing on shipping by charging like $4 per item, and then they package it all in the same box! And yes, I do realize that occasionally they offer "free shipping" for certain items.
So anyway, what I do to retaliate for their sneaky profit-making technique is to order each item separately, and make them ship each item in its own box. That way, at least most of the money is going to FedEx or UPS instead. Just a suggestion, to those of you that are bothered by NewEgg's shipping charges, like I am.
- SW
... and AllBrands.com. I discovered they had refurbed Dyson vacuums at substantial discounts off new ones, and set my mind to buy one. After refreshing my memory about the stats of each model, I narrowed it to a choice between a DC07 "Animal" and a DC07 "Full Gear". The price difference between the two was $20.
Other than color, there's no physical difference between those two vacuums and kits when new at all; they're identical. The only difference is the addition of an extra year to the warranty, for the sum of an extra $30. Since I knew that there were no physical differences between the two kits, I had every reason to think that AllBrands knew that as well; since there was a $20 difference in the price, I made the reasonable conclusion that the extra warranty was included even with the refurbed "Full Gear". The basic warranty on them was stated to be six months, so I expected to come away with 18 months of warranty from Dyson.
When it arrived, I found out different: it was limited to the basic six month warranty with no addition. I immediately called Dyson and learned that indeed it only had a six month warranty; I *also* learned that Dyson sells BOTH refurbed models to retailers AT THE SAME PRICE, because of course Dyson knows full well that they are same, lacking a difference in warranty.
Thus, Dyson had in fact sold both models to AllBrands for the same price, no $20 or any other difference. I contacted AllBrands, explained all that I had learned, and asked how they would like to resolve the matter? I suggested that, in the interest of fairness, they might consider refunding me the difference. They agreed to discuss the matter and get back to me.
The result was this: not only did AllBrands refund ME the $20 difference, they also reduced the price on the "Full Gear" model to make it equal to the "Animal", so that no one else in the future would be taken for a ride! I expect that when the stock of one or the other runs out AllBrands may simply stop carrying one of the two models.
That's a company with some ethical cajones.
Mark
When I bought my camera (Nikon 5700, $1000 retail at the time) back in January 2004 I dealt with seriously 14 different online camera companies just like this one, almost exclusively in New York (I used to have the list, heck if I can find it now). Same thing, order it, they call you or you have to call them, act like you're gonna get the overpriced stuff, and it's in stock. Say no, it's suddenly out of stock. Got yelled at, did some yelling. All fun. Put me in a pretty pissed mood for a couple days.
Anyways finally I wound up buying a 5 year extended warranty on the camera, with plans to get the camera and return it. Turned out I couldn't return warranties. I was pissed.
I'm a little less pissed today, though, as the camera mysteriously broke 5 days ago *peers suspiciously at roomates* and I just sent it for service. Currently being fixed. Haven't gotten the full story about what's broken just yet but I'm thinking it's the CCD chip (but even if it's something less tragically expensive at least it's getting fixed without a hassle). Luckily I'm not paying a dime (except the $3.95 priority mail shipping-in-a-well-padded-shoebox to get it to Miami Beach).
bret
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Are they a scam though? Have they tried trapping anyone with their legal notice by suing users for posting their content at other places potentially slashdot for example after posting on radio free nation?
I am sure I'm being paranoid, but I just put some comments on their site, and then read their legal notice... I'd like to keep ownership of my content and be free to publish anywhere I want...
If the guy charges a $100 fee or 15% restocking or whatever, it doesn't matter.
Sign the back of your credit card statement and check "merchandise not delivered." End of story. The merchant has to prove you ever accepted a package from him. If it was a bait-and-switch, there's slightly more work: check "item not as described," take photos, document times and dates of phone calls.
Unfortunately I've dealt with less-beligerent but much worse crooks than this guy before. Ever heard of cyberrebate?
I'm desperately trying to think of how my life would have benefitted from learning of this story three or four days earlier.
Then I remembered I'd just dropped $5000 on camera gear at PriceRitePhoto.com.
Stupid friggin' Slashdot.
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
that you have to eat lunch at McDonald's :(
The virtual numbers from CitiBank are excellent as you mentioned. Just as a clarification, they can be used more than once, But they can only be used by one merchant, the first merchant to use them. The reason they do this is that if a merchant charges a separate shipping chare (rare) if the merchant needs to refund money, the card is not locked out. For extra security, you can go online and lock a card once you are happy with an order. Also worth mentioning is that the cards automatically expire at the end of the next month.