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Consumer Strikes Back at Crooked Online Retailer
BigBadLad writes "Seems like customers are at a huge disadvantage when dealing with dishonest retailers. This is the story of a man who had a horrible experience with an online camera retailer. In short he was lied to, yelled at, and threatened to be sued if he posted the experience on his blog. He was also persuaded to sign an agreement that would allow the retailer to charge him an extra $100 if he left bad feedback."
Except that he didn't sign the agreement to pay $100 if he posted unkind reviews. That was taken from another review which he cited.
Get it right, or pay the price.
The offending camera "dealer" site is: Priceritephoto.com
According to an update on his blog site, he has since reported this charlatan to the New York State Attourney General's Office. Also, apperently Price Rite Photo was listed on PriceGrabber, but has since been delisted.
My mom had the same experience. She placed a $800 camera order and was called that day to "confirm her address", at which point they proceeded to try and sell her a $150 warranty and other expensive accessories. Once she refused, they suddenly informed her the product was out of stock, but they later said they could get it to her by Friday if she paid for a $150 warranty. She tried to cancel and they said there would be a $40 restocking fee (for restocking the product they didn't have). They also got caught in their own lies at numerous points. The first representative said it was his first day, and then later he said he had lied before and that he was there for six years (the BBB documents this company as being three years old). They threatened her with their possession of her credit card and made nonsensical threats to trace down any bad review she or any of her family or friends made, which they could somehow magically do since they "had all the IP addresses of the computer in her household". The people she talked to at this company said their names were: Harvey Finkel and Moses Franco, though this was probably made up. Their email tells the user to leave a five star review at shopping sites using the following link: http://www.priceritephoto.com/priceritephoto/offer .htm
and the text below:
**Please do NOT mention this in the review, we do not offer this to all our customers.
**Please do NOT mention my name or the fact that we asked to write a review the websites will not post it. This will also make you eligible for FREE shipping on any accessory purchases in the future.
Since it seems from many of the comments on the blog that this sort of thing is common, I wonder how the swindler's behind this store can be shut down instead of just shutting down the store? Even though it may seem satisfying to finally get this store put out of business, its frustrating to know that these crooks will probably leave the business having made a lot of money preying off consumers and may just move onto another business. Has anyone been able to obtain any info on whose behind this and how we can pursue legal action against them, instead of just pursuing their pathetic crooked stores?
Sure he should have known better than to use them. But his complaining is having very real, and very positive, results. They should be taken off PriceGrabber, they should be blacklisted at ResellerRatings, they should really be out of business and in jail! They kind of threats they are making along with blatantly illegal credit-card charges indicate they are totally out of control.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Having read (most of) TFA, it was another dissatisfied customer -- not the author of the main article -- who signed this agreement. But yeah, that's just stupid.
Did that company tell you to come to /. and mention how good their deals are?
Did he hit them with CAPS LOCK or sumthin'?
They got to you too! Blink twice if it's the Mafia.
Q: What did the comedian say to the crowd?
A: If I knew, this joke would be funny.
Others report similar experiences with PriceRitePhoto at resellerratings: http://www.resellerratings.com/seller8613.html
It's pretty funny, in Update #2, this Steve Phillips guy is complaining about the tactics of flooding his stores phone lines. That was before it hit /.'s front page. If he thought it was bad before, he's in for a world of shit now.
That's funny, epinions.com seems to disagree. Everything single review is very negative:
http://www99.shopping.com/xMR-~MRD-306792
Wow, that's a shockingly bad story. I've had bad experiences with some web retailers before, but it didn't compare to that!
With shopping search engines placing the focus directly on price, and the ease at which you can set up an online store, it probably invites people like this to set up low quality operations where they cut costs by doing things like not having stock.
I agree you should target the people behind such sites rather than the sites themselves, as it's too easy for them to just set up a new site and do it all over again.
MyLinkVault - online bookmarks with a fast drag-and-dr
I read that and I really feel for the guy and everyone else who ends up in that situation. I've had problems myself with online sellers.
I also shut down my own online store due to what appeared to be an organized plot against one my stores. I'm not a tinfoil hat type, so hear me out... I operate 4 online stores, doing the drop ship thing. It was 5, but one business I opened seem to go up in flames once I started getting page ranks. How? I began getting orders from customers who demanded overnight shipping and immediate confirmation of overnight shipping. As my stores clearly state we do not have a phone number and that we do not offer overnight shipping on anything, this really was bizzarre. They would complain within hours of placing the orders.
Shortly, we recieved complaints from the better business beaureu from these customers who had NEVER BEEN CHARGED, and the complaints contained completely blown out of proportion accounts of what happened. Including accusations that we swore at them on the phone(which is a neat trick since we don't operate a phone number), gave them false tracking numbers, etc... We later found out it wasn't just BBB reports, it was also showing up in online message boards where our target market resided, as well as online consumer complaint websites.
I just shut the store down entirely because I didn't want to deal with it. What convinces me this was a plot is simply that none of this crap has happened to my other stores. I've operated them just fine, with very few complaints. But in this one sector, I suspect there is some business out there who didn't like my growing page ranks or my feedback ratings. And it just started out of the blue, shortly after we began getting high placements in google, yahoo, and MSN.
Anyone else here experience that? Just wondering.
Not so says, well, pretty much everyone else
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller9018.html
From the PriceRitePhoto website... "What are the benefits of registration? As a registered customer, you become entitled to special discount schemes and promotional pricing offers. These schemes would become available to you not only on orders you place at our web store but also to orders through other channels."
In contrast, most people feel that, even armed with the internet, a blog and the resulting social networking, one cannot do anything about Iraq.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
There is only one New York store that I would deal with - B&H (www.bhphotovideo.com). They're one of the best camera retailers in the country.
Besides for them, the only other company I will deal with now is Calumet Photographic. I've heard good things about Robert's in Indianapolis as well, but I've never had any dealings with them.
My Sysadmin Blog
(I'm an Aussie; we know about corroborees and stuff)
But what's to stop someone with a personal grudge or a commercial agenda from doing the same thing? Sure, it's a lottery to see if your blog-rave captures any attention on /. or BoingBoing or Digg etc., but the costs are low and the potential damage high.
How can a reputable business (even one with a couple of justly unhappy customers; nobody's service is perfect) protect themselves?
Congrats on your grey market camera with no warranty (despite any claim to the contrary by either the seller or literature in the box). It's also not unlikely that you were shorted on the accessories, too such as getting a non-canon battery or a smaller capacity battery than the S70 normally comes with, no bundled software on the cd, no flash card (the real US retail boxed version comes with a memory card), maybe no strap, no usb cable -- that kind of thing is typical, but people generally don't notice.
But one thing is for sure, you got an S70; it's probably new and it takes pictures as well as any other S70, so if you are happy saving a few bucks, I guess you're happy. If you don't believe me about the grey market deal, call Canon's customer service and try to verify your product warranty. Hope that puppy doesn't break on you (but it probably won't.. it's a decent camera)!
Anyway, it's uninformed customers like you who contribute greatly to this problem here. Even the store in the article probably made more than a handful of people extremely happy with their low prices. It's fine if you want to buy stuff like this, but to just pass it off as the greatest deal in the world without stopping to inform people of WHY the prices are so low.
If you want to buy camera equipment online, there really are some good vendors with competitive pricing. B&H Photo and Video is top notch and they will do a lot of things to help you save money such as giving you the option to buy third-party warranties instead of manufacturer's warranties (which can be both less expensive and longer term), etc.
If you have any questions, you might just give them a call, toll free at:
888-365-4300
New York and New Jersey camera stores are famous for this. The general scam runs something like this:
1) Advertise an incredibly low price that gets people's interest.
2) Take their credit card order, telling them the item's in stock.
3) Within a couple of days, phone the customer to ask them if they want to buy the accessories pack. This usually includes most of the things that were in the box to start with - like the charger, kit lens, etc. These cost several hundred more, making the camera more expensive than it would have been via a reputable dealer.
4) If they refuse, try berating them.
5) If they still refuse, announce that the model is out of stock - even though it was confirmed in stock when they ordered.
6) Wait for them to either give in and take the terrible deal or, if they do finally cancel on you, charge a 15% restocking fee for the camera you never took off the shelf. Either way, you sit on the money from their credit card for the whole period.
It's a pretty simple rule in the camera community: If the deal's too good to be true, it is.
You can use online reputation sites but they can be rigged. The store keeps sale details and then enters their own perfect feedback for any that don't get consumed.
Personally, I limit to the following:
B&H, Adorama: Both very reputable stores. Some people have minor issues but they do genuinely work hard. You can pretty much use them as baseline prices - if it costs more, you're paying too much, if it costs less, it's likely a scam.
Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. By using major retailers, whilst you won't get a great deal initially, you can often find a 10% sale for reward card members, 5% back in vouchers on the sale (which buys memory cards etc). and so on. Be careful of open boxes here. It's not unheard of for say a Canon 20D to be bought and then a Digital Rebel to be returned in the box.
Dell - Crazy as it may sound, they do have some great deals. The trick is to use sites like DealMeIn or HotDealsClub to find out when they have a great sale on.
NewEgg - even with an employee discount from working for one of the major manufacturers, NewEgg was within $20, had free shipping, and got it to me fast - which turned out far better than getting it with my discount.
One of the many "badges of honor" on PriceRitePhoto.com's website is a PriceRunner award.
http://www.pricerunner.com/retailer/14312/reviews
Look through the list, and you can see 70% of the 5 star ratings are almost cut and pasted identical. Spelling errors matched post for post. It's so blatant that the review page has been put on hold while they verify the reviews. No doubt PriceRitePhoto trying to water down the negative feedback to protect their images.
Look for I purchased a Panasonic AG-DVC60 W/Pro Accessory Kit. I was very pleased with there selection of accessories in this kit, I believe I got the best Value for my buck. Also unlike most other internet ordering sites like this I found it very easy to talk to the sales and custumer service people. There was short waiting times on the phone as well as people who were easy to understand and willing to help me with my order from selection to delivery. I would recomend checking out PriceRitePhoto.com before making your next purchace.
Losers, how low can you go? Apparently PRP found an express elevator to ultimate lameness.
Here's what the business actually looks like. This is from the web site of someone who has been photographing the storefronts of mail order photo dealers in Brooklyn. The results are very funny. Some are mail drops. Some are bogus addresses. Some are homes. Some are tiny stores selling something else. Only one is a huge warehouse with loading docks.
It's a bit dated, but Don Wiss has documented the storefronts of most of the Brooklyn and Manhattan photo gear dealers. Some I would obviously never buy from. Others are just fine. A picture is worth a thousand words.
If you you wish to send them a comment via fax:
Fax: 1-888-375-6700
Or if you happen to wish to visit them in person:
PriceRitePhoto
1274 49th Street
Brooklyn, NY 11219
When I first heard about this yesterday, I was surprised. The victim in this tale is a fan (or employee? dunno) of flickr, one of the hottest social network web apps around at the moment. Yet when buying a camera, he didn't take advantage of them at all.
Look around any photography forum, every time a questions like, "hey, I just saw this camera at an incredible price at this store, is this a good deal?" people always reply with "check out resellerratings.com. How someone so technically and netsocially (for lack of a better term) savvy didn't ask around about this new store they were about to send $3k to is a mystery to me. Heck, a simple google search would've revealed problems.
There are so many tools out there to verify good sellers/companies to do business with. Why do you think B&H has so much business, even though its prices aren't rock bottom? They win on service and reliability, again and again. Of course, they're not perfect, but they've never failed me, and 'horror stories' with them are few and far between - especially compared to the volume they do.
Speaking of trust systems: I've had excellent results with ebay - buying from reputable sellers. There are quite a few chinese/hong kong sellers on there with 10-50k transactions and 1-10 negative feedbacks. I don't know *any* brick and mortar stores with those kinds of numbers.
this link will load pics from pricerite infinitely!!! that will show 'em! http://electronicchaos.com/pricewrongphoto.html http://electronicchaos.com/pricewrongphoto.html
This is apparently very common behavior for camera and electronics shops in Brooklyn. It's so widespread that some guy actually went around and took pictures of the actual physical storefronts for all of these online shops.
Very classy establishments, all.
http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/
make sure to call priceritephoto and voice your displeasure, 888-365-4300. skype allows free calling to toll-free numbers. ;)
slashdotting a phone number anyone?
Blog via SMS text messaging
You missed an important line in your quote. Right before the paragraph the blurp you pasted, it says:
"and yet another review I found on the company:"
Personally, I look at the T&C of any retailer I make a large purchase from. That's how I spotted the $100 fee for the chargeback.
Essentially, gotchas like that are a clear sign not to do business with someone. If they're that worried about chargebacks or bad feedback that they try to penalize you for either in the T&C or EULA, run far away.
Start a happiness pandemic
Very rarely is the company offering the very lowest price on a product also going to have good customer service. You get what you pay for. While I do agree this person got a raw deal, I'm also having trouble being massively sympathetic to someone who decided where to buy a multi-thousand dollar camera based solely on price. If you want good service, then you're going to have to pony up a few dollars more than "rock bottom price" to get it.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
These guys are good. I bought my first professional 35MM camera from them back in 1980, and they are still alive and kicking. They have five stores, two in West LA, one in Santa Barbara, one in Pasadena, and one in Santa Ana. Not a fly-by-night operation by any means. Everything from consumer to prosumer to pro; video, digital or film.
Can't lose with NewEgg either if all you want is a consumer-grade digital camera. Again, in California.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
So if you've been extorted into providing non-negative feedback, you can always talk about how thrilled you were about the merchandise not actually being available and how exciting it was to wonder what charges were going to show up on your credit card bill this month and how happy you'd be about the merchandise if what you ordered actually ever showed up....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Actually, the website mentioned in the article is part of a chain of hundreds of websites all run by the same dishonest camera shop in New York. I lost a bookmark that someone had compiled that listed almost all of their websites, but they all share the exact same layout and graphic elements (the "Hacker Safe" logo is a dead giveaway) and they all list their bait-and-switch with Froogle/Pricewatch/etc.
I was searching for a Canon S400 and found one of these sites offering the camera for $100 less than anything even close. I knew it was too good to be true, so I called on the phone, illegally recording it but I wanted to have proof anyway. I asked specifically 1) was it refurbished (no) 2) was it the US model (yes) and 3) was it the retail version (yes). Okay, I figured I had all my bases covered, so I ordered it.
Warning bells went off when I got a call the next day from a sales rep asking if I wanted to upgrade the battery for only $15 more. Apparently, the battery that came with this model only lasts "30-40 photos" because Canon skimped on it. I was pretty damn sure a company like Canon wouldn't be so stupid, so after asking to call him back (so I could hit record on my answer machine) I asked if the battery that came with the camera was brand new and from Canon. Yes on both counts, so, I told him no thanks, just the camera and the "inferior" battery.
I received the camera and right off the bat I knew why it was $100 cheaper. It was the Japanese model. Basically, these a-holes had someone over in Korea or Taiwan fill up a shipping container with everything and sent it over here to the US. Grey-market. It's cheaper because of difference in currency, but despite being the "same" thing, it's not for two reasons: 1) Packaging...which isn't really important but 2) No US warrantee...which is VERY important. Also, US manufacturers can refuse to service foreign models (though they rarely do). Technically, your warantee is back overseas where the camera came from.
I called them and was told that was why it I was offered a chance to buy a warantee on the website. I pointed out that I paid for the US model, and did not receive it. I was told it was the US model it was just "imported direct from the manufacturer". I told them sorry, no dice, I want to return it. They said they would send me instructions. The instruction? 1) no returns without RMA number and 2) the only way to get an RMA number is to sign a form that you accept a 20% restocking fee. I took one look and called my credit card company.
Big plug here for Chase MasterCard. I have had to dispute six times in the four years I've had the card, and every time they worked FOR me against the merchant and made sure things turned out well. This time was no exception. The Chase rep sent me a simple form, where I checked the box "merchandise was not as advertised". For proof I send a picture of the website showing the model number (PowerShot S400) and the product box I received (IXY 400) Yes, they were the same physical camera, but not what I paid for!
I sent in the dispute and it was approved and I got my money back. Then the fun began! The merchant disputed my dispute, sending in a picture of a US box and saying that was what I received. Chase asked me to send them a different copy of the box, which I easily did. Then Chase informed me that I couldn't keep the product and I would need to return it to the company. I was pretty pissed about the concept of losing even $20 to ship it back to these crooks, but the helpful Chase person pointed out that MasterCard did not care how it went back to the company and suggested COD. (guinness)Brilliant!(/guinness) So, I packed up the camera and sent it COD without an RMA number. Surprise surprise, it was rejected and sent back to me. Yes, I had to pay the shipping both ways. But here's the fun part...I had attempted to return it and that's all Chase needed me to do. I sent in a copy of the shipping form and was issued the final resolution to my dispute: full ref
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
I end up buying the camera from a store in South Carolina and there were no problems whatsoever and I had it in few days with everything as advertised. That is when I decided not to ever buy anything online from shops based in Brooklyn, NY. No matter how cheap it seems. I seriously think this matter should be investigated and this shop is just one of many there.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
What you are seeing is the results of years of people being scammed by companies just like this one.
For whatever reason, this post has caused a flashpoint of activity as anyone who has ever been wronged by a shady New York camera dealer exacts revenge.
Honestly, I expect there's nothing for the people at the company to do now but run the shop under a new name, that one is done.
However I don't think the incidents are as isolated as you think. Just because they often get away with hoodwinking people into buying warranties and overpriced accessories does not mean they should get off scott free even if not everyone complains. They really are getting what they have coming to them. Even the complaints are not that isolated, just look at the horrible ResellerRatings score.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I ALWAYS read the negative comments for anything I buy. Happy people tend not to post, so absence of positive reviews is often (though not always) indicative of a good review, but if there are an overwhelming number of negative reviews, or a few VERY negative ones, I pass. There also need to be a large total number of reviews so as to be "statistically" valid.
Also, if there is no physical address listed or a phone number on their web page, I move on to another retailer.
They still list pricegrabber on their site
I also google for their phone number, and their address and check the location on a map. One vendor I was about to purchase from didn't show up on any maps (it could have been a new building, but better safe than sorry for a few dollars).
Lastly, never let ANYONE yell at you on the phone. Just hang-up. Crank Yankers was so successful because of the false politness of people on the phone or with strangers. And NEVER let him talk to your boss. This is a personal issue, not a work one.
I would buy a $2900 camera if I could. The 5D is a low-pro/high-amature level camera.
It gets you:
*12.7 megapixels.
*Very high light sensitivity. (ISO 3200 which is about eight better times your average digicam.)
*Low noise(It will look cleaner at ISO 3200 than your average camera at ISO 400.)
*Fast shutter speeds(1/8000th of a second.)
*Interchangable lenses(Let's see you do that for less than $600 new.)
*Filters, polarizers, hoods, and diopters for those lenses.
*Full 35mm size CMOS sensor(for true wide angle shots(think 7mm.)
*Start-up time less than 1/3rd of a second(Your average digicam has about 3-7 seconds start-up.)
*Pro quality and strength flashes.
*Ability to slave multiple flashes(think portrait studio.)
*Ability to control the exposure for HOURS if needed(I've done some neat stuff with long exposures.)
*Remote shutter control.
*Underwater housing.
*Fast focus-to-shot(near instant, better than the half second or more some digicams take.)
*Focus and track moving subjects
*More focus and light metering options(Get that shot right the first time.)
*Shoot 3 frames per second for 60 frames(See the dust fly off the baseball when it's hit.)
I could go on and on. This type of camera is overkill for your average mom wanting to take pictures at Christmas. It's a real tool in the hands of a creative person.
Show me a 12.7 megapixel camera for $290. Hell, show me an 8 megapixel camera for $290 and I'll show you a piece of garbage.
Not everone needs a set of $2,000 cutlery, but you wouldn't give a professional chef a knock off Swiss army knife to do your meal with would you?
This is why you need one-time credit card numbers. Several banks offer them. You generate them on-line as needed, with a precise limit and timeframe, and you can even revoke them if they haven't been charged.
Disclaimer: As always, this is not legal advice. If you get legal advice on Slashdot, you need your head checked.
Depending on the state you are in, it's not always illegal. Many states permit recording so long as one party is aware of it. So you are free to record all phonecalls you make since you are aware of it. The reason call centres warn you is to ensure there aren't any legal problems anywhere.
Check your local laws but it's allowed in a large number of states.
Oh, but you were really talking about high-priced cameras. The high-end stuff usually does cost an order of magnitude more than the pretty good stuff when it first comes out, and if you're a professional photographer it may make sense to buy it. If you need whatever this year's version of really high resolution is, with really perfect optics, really good color definition, high speed, and able to plug in a wide range of professional-quality lenses and similar frobs, yeah, you could spend that kind of money. On the other hand, if you're going to post pictures on a web page, a $99 camera and Photoshop is probably overkill. My general preference is toward the $49 range, e.g. a camera that would be $29 with a couple of features fixed, like removable memory cards instead of built-in, and slightly better batteries and maybe a flash. But I mostly take pictures to remember travel and family get-togethers, and 1024x768 is more than I need.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I would imagine an IRS investigation would reveal tax fraud. There's simply no way that crooks this heinous are playing honest with the IRS.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
My understanding of online taxes is that businesses charge tax only if they have a physical presence in the state the order originated from, i.e. warehouse, storefront, offices.
He's not talking about sales tax, he's talking about income tax. Even if you only sell intrastate, you are still responsible to pay income taxes on the profits that you make.
The IRS is the one organization that you don't want to fuck with. Remember, these are the guys who took down Al Capone.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Comment removed based on user account deletion
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller8613.html
Customer Satisfaction
Six-Month Rating: 4.39
Average Store: 7.23
Seems like they are selling the product only if you buy overpriced accessories with them. This is very usual thing to do if you start to read the stories of customers that have bought stuff from the lowest scoring stores.
?SYNTAX ERROR
They've gone worse and worse over the past 18 months, too! Ebuyer is still cheap with loads of goodies and their website is easy to navigate, but I'm sorry to say their customer service is plain shite. Don't shop with ebuyer. If anything goes wrong with your order, don't expect it to be sorted... ever.
They don't do email, just "enotes" (which will take you an hour to send because that particular part of the website is so slow it loses connection all the time) and phone. Phone is expensive, and enotes they read and reply to weeks after... if they feel like it at all. I'm trying to have a conversation with their main man "david" but with weeks between replies, it just seems silly. They operate in the US too (I'm in the UK). Maybe if they piss-off someone enough in the US it'll get ugly. Here, they just hope you'll get bored and give-up, and go away.
My misfortune? I ordered a 120GB seagate drive, received a broken 200GB maxtor covered in finger prints. Difficult to argue "you sent me a drive I did not order and it's broken" when "david" says ebuyer or their warehouses don't do mistakes... Yeah right, do you remember last time you sent me an AGP card when I ordered the PCI version? And that time last year when my order turned-up weeks after chrismas even though I paid extra charge to have it delivered on time? My current problem has been going-on since last summer. I have a feeling I lost the money.
Well, least I can do is warn you not to buy anything from them... and don't trust me, check the other reviews online!
One can always do a whois on the domain name. The integrity of the registration information is another story though.
Sorry, but amazon doesn't try to sell you overprice accessories, nor do they threaten to charge a "restocking fee" for items they will never ship if you cancel, plus they don't charge your credit card until they ship your item. That said, they do seem to have issues with properly estimating the the availability for anything that they don't have in stock, and I have repeatedly houded they customer service about this (the number is something like 800-750-7575 [slate.com prints it every year])
For risk of being totally off topic here..
You can not really wish to put people in jail for their opinions .
You should work to change those opinions , many people have been indoctrinated with false ideas , we should consider it a mitzvah to help them lose the hatred .
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Some one mentioned to use them in an earlier post. What credit card companies offer them and how do you go about making them? Would gift cards be the same thing?
.... but my camera's still on order.
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
Well, this make the guy's remark "I will make sure you will never be able to place an order on the internet again" quite ironic. Seems like Thomas Hawk is the type of photographer a lot of shops will boast about him being one of their customers.
Trust me, I work for the government.
I was having a dispute with one ISP and I started recording the phone calls. I confronted a member of their management staff with the recorded phone calls. He told me that the phone calls were recorded illegally and that I could be charged with a crime.
I then played the beginning of one of the recordings to him:
"This call may be recorded for quality assurance purposes."
I said "that's the sound of your company giving me permission to record these phone calls." He was not a happy man, but they sure became a lot more helpful in resolving what had been a service nightmare. And the tech support people stopped lying.
If you ever get some schmuck retailer (meat or cyberspace) you just call the credit card company and say you lost the card... Tell them you've searched high and low and can't find it... tell them you think you got pickpocketed in a train station you passed thru... whatever...
They'll cancel the card and issue you a new one. When the crappy retailer tries to charge the old #, it's declined...lost card.
End of problem.
If they charge the card b4 you report it lost, then deny the charge. Call the CC company and dispute the charge - all you have to say is "it's an unauthorized charge". They'll reverse it pending some sort of resolution process... Then call up 2 days later and report it lost... When the shithead retailer tries to charge your card again, it's "declined...lost card"...
end of problem...
If you get some retailer threatening you on the phone with *whatever* bullshit they pull out of their ass - just say "We're done, any charges by you are considered unauthorized and will be refused. Never call this number again." and hang up. If they call back, file a complaint with the local PD for harrasment by wire (that's what it is called in IL). File complaints with the FTC, and local state attorney general's office.
If they cost you one dime, file a small claims action in YOUR state, in YOUR jurisdiction and have them served in their jurisdiction. They're not going to show up - and you win by default. You then file the judgment, and turn it over to a collection agency who can then harrass the shithead retailer... You probably won't see any $$$, but turnabout is fair play eh?
Finally: Caveat Emptor. Just because it's the Internet, doesn't mean you don't have to take care just like you would in the real world...
Citibank is one company that offers free "virtual account numbers" for their credit cards, to help protect you from CC info theft when ordering online. I don't know of any others that do right off, plz chime in if you know.
(Assuming you have a credit card with them) you log on to the website and the program generates a different temporary card number that bills to your regular card. The virtual card has a 1-month expiration date, and only acccepts one single charge (I found that out the first time I tried to use the same virtual account number at three different online retailers--the first one went through, the other later two got rejected. I had to send them each a different virtual number). This way you don't ever need to use your real card number online, and the number you do give is always different, and it can't be charged multiple times,,, or even at all after two months at the most. (prevents logged CC numbers at online retailers from getting hax0red and used later)
There are probably a lot of reasons to not like Citibank, but this is one thing they have done that is very good.
---And of course this would not have prevented the situation from happening, but it certainly cuts down on the possible excess charging that can be done. I don't know what other credit-card companies do it, none of the rest of mine do, but I don't use any other credit-card for online transactions at all anymore.
~
Yeah, it'll cost their hosting company a fortune!
Good! If you're going to provide services to thieves and scammers, then you deserve to suffer for it. The ISP could have easily looked up the countless online complaints about this merchant before signing a contract with them.
I don't buy from NYC area sellers. I include New Jersey, Rockland County, and Long Island in that zone. In fact, if I can't get it from somewhere on the left coast, I generally won't buy. FYI, I was raised in Queens.
Best regards.
TPC says:
Your facsimile job to +18883756700 is delayed in the scheduling queues because:
Blocked by concurrent calls
Anyone else notice how many times B&H came up positively in comments? Makes me wonder if they're really good- (there's a PICTURE of their nice storefront & the comments tend to be good ones/not entirely focused on praising B&H) or if they put a lot of effort into "viral marketing".
Their email tells the user to leave a five star review at shopping sites using the following link: http://www.priceritephoto.com/priceritephoto/offer .htm and the text below: **Please do NOT mention this in the review, we do not offer this to all our customers. **Please do NOT mention my name or the fact that we asked to write a review the websites will not post it. This will also make you eligible for FREE shipping on any accessory purchases in the future
Well at least that explains how they manage to keep thier review ratings so high. And the people who actually fall for the bait and switch will be the ones most likely to fall for the FREE STUFF line as well.
I'm not a member of any of these shopping sites but I wonder how the sites will react if someone submitted the above link to thier complaints departments.
Quantum Physics a.k.a. sub-molecular statistics
I've run an on-line business and a call back to verify is *not* in itself something to be suspicious of. If you place a high-value order with a retailer, and it's the first time they've heard of you then any sensible business will contact you by phone just to check that everything is in order. This is especially the case if you've requested, for instance, delivery to somewhere other than the card address - e.g. invoice to home address, delivery to work. Some businesses will ask for particularly large orders to be confirmed in writing.
Of course, trying to get the customer to buy something extra is a big no-no.
The first conversation, the first paragraph, if true is a cause for disbarment proceedings at a minimum and probably criminal as well. At least to the point where you could get someone to inquire into it. Get the person's name and let them know you are contacting the State Bar to file an action. Then let them know you are calling the State AG, Fraud div. Then let them know you WILL put something online and you WILL trash their reputation and it will wind up being the most expensive few dollars that company ever screwed someone out of.
When someone goes nutz like that over the phone, I've found that just laughing at them seems to work.
Things brings back bad memories for me. I had a very similar experience with this same merchant a year ago, and I wrote the attached letter. I sent it through the mail to the New York BBB and the PriceGrabber offices out in CA. At that time (October, 2004), I spoke with a PriceGrabber rep on the phone and they removed PriceRitePhoto from their site. So how come these bastards got listed again?
To whom it may concern:
I am writing this letter to describe the experiences that I have had with a business called PriceRitePhoto.com. Their address is:1274 49th Street, Brooklyn, NY 11219 and their customer service phone number is (888) 365-4300. I found this business through the PriceGrabber.com website and attempted to purchase a camera from them. However this company was more interested in lying to me and manipulating me than selling me a camera.
I am spending my time and effort in order to inform you of the dirty tactics used by PriceRitePhoto.com with the hope that my story will save other potential customers the headaches and lost sleep that I have endured. The manager of PriceRitePhoto.com has already tried to silence my opinion through bribery and extortion but I think that the potential customers *deserve* to know the business strategies employed by PriceRitePhoto.com before deciding to do business with them.
I understand that I am the kind of customer that PriceRitePhoto.com doesn't want. I am an informed consumer and a comparison shopper. If they had simply been honest with me and told me that they were unwilling to sell me the Canon Digital Rebel camera unless I purchased some other accessories, I would have just found another company from which to purchase this camera. I probably wouldn't have submitted a negative review on PriceGrabber.com - I just would have gone my own way. But what I got instead of honesty were lies and manipulation, and I think these strategies are completely unacceptable for a professional organization and ought to be publicized.
I first read about the Canon Digital Rebel camera more than a year ago, and I instantly wanted one. However I was not able to afford to purchase one until recently. Several months ago I began researching the Digital Rebel and several other cameras in preparation for a purchase. I found the PriceGrabber.com website which offered reviews of many different merchants selling this camera, in addition to their prices. I saw that the various merchants fell into several different strata - about 7 or 8 were in the very lowest price range, from $799 to $850 including shipping. I found a merchant in the middle of this price range with a high rating and mostly positive reviews: PriceRitePhoto.com. I knew that I would also need some other accessories with the camera, and I planned on purchasing a USB 2.0 Compact Flash card reader and a Compact Flash card. I found that PriceRitePhoto.com had a USB 1.0 CF reader for $49, but did not offer a USB 2.0 reader. However Best Buy sold a USB 2.0 reader for $15, so I drove to purchase this item at Best Buy. After some research I decided that the CF card that I wanted was the Lexar 80x 1 gigabyte card. I looked on the PriceRitePhoto.com website but found that this merchant did not offer this card for sale, so instead I purchased it from TigerDirect.com.
So the only item left was the camera. On Thursday, September 16th, 2004 I placed order #7490 from PriceRitePhoto.com for a Canon Digital Rebel camera with 18-55mm EF-S lens for $799 plus $24.80 shipping. I thought I was getting a great deal at this time, but I had no idea what abuse I was in store for.
It began on the following Sunday, September 19th. I received an email at about 11:00 am, stating that I needed to call PriceRitePhoto.com to "confirm the information on your order". This is where the deceptions began, because the real purpose of this phone call was not in fact to verify my order information, but to sell me some additional items. What follows is certainly one of the most unpleasant experiences that I've ever en
Replying to parent just to get this near the top. The following link will load images from their site to infinity: http://electronicchaos.com/pricewrongphoto.html
While posting something negative online about a person, product, or business is certainly nothing new, I think it's very interesting that we're starting to see some of these become internet-wide phenomena and in some cases even capturing the attention of the more mainstream press.
It's one of the (in my opinion, relatively few) things that could quite literally only happen online. With the advent of free blogs and such, almost anyone anywhere can post a message intending to call attention to negative behaviour of someone or something. It can then be linked to, blogosphered, slashdotted, forummed, digged (dugg?), viral-emailed, wikied, and so on, infinitely. We're seeing the birth of a new application of the internet: the network as a tool of disorganised justice.
I, for one, find this at once exciting, slightly frightening, and certainly interesting. The idea that networked ordinary people can do what law-enforcement authorities worldwide cannot is exciting. This genuinely has a chance to change the world. The frightening aspect is that much of this information is instantly taken at face value and unchecked, and the human tendency toward exaggeration is always a factor: if an innocent person or business were shamed in this way, it would be tragic.
It will be very interesting to see where this concept takes us. Hang on, folks, it's going to be one hell of a ride.
Andrew Lenahan http://www.starblind.com/
Actually, most of these stores are Jewish-owned and operated. It's not the Russian or Italian mob. Ironically, most of them are Orthodox and observant. A lot of the families that own and run these shops live up in Monsey and New Square and other little frum enclaves upstate. You would think that being religious might have some correlation to ethics, but unfortunately, this isn't always the case.
There are dozens of similar outfits all over New York City. It's an open secret that they're basically all fronts for various ethnic Mafia organizations. Primarily Russian, Israeli and Syrian, but with ample representation from just about everywhere else on the planet. Whoever the actual operator of "Pricerite" is, you can bet your last quarter that they already have half a dozen other D/B/As, maildrops and websites up and running already, and that they spin up and down various identities all the time.
...but if you're just a consumer and not a sociologist, you would be well advised to avoid the heck out of any online "camera store" with a 11xxx or 10xxx zip code, with the possible exceptions of J&R and B&H. Caveat Emptor, to say the least.
From a sociological standpoint, these are fascinating organizations, especially in the way that they sometimes slowly, over time, evolve into "proper" retail outlets, (e.g. J&R Music/Video)... and sometimes "devolve" back into criminality (e.g. Crazy Eddie).
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
I had a similar, although not-so-bad experience with bestpricecameras.com. Google searched for the lens I wanted for my D70, a Nikkor 70-300m G lens, they showed up as a sponsored link and claimed to have the lens for $109. I ordered it online through their web page, which indicated the lens was in stock.
I got an email the next day asking me to call and confirm my order. WTF? With most online retailers, you confirm the order by, you know, placing the order and entering your payment information. I fired back an email saying 'consider it confirmed.'
2 weeks later, they still haven't touched my credit card for the lens. I call up, navigate through their voicemail (fortunately it's a 1-800 number, so at least they're eating the cost), and talk to the guy who I'm supposed to call. He tries to upsell me a UV filter, because if I'm using it with a digital camera, and I take photos outside, I'll "get a lot of glare off the CCD." Now, I put UV filters on my lenses anyway, just for the sake of keeping crud off the lens while I'm shooting, so I was planning on picking one up anyway. I asked the price, he said $50. $50, for a filter that goes for $10 at any camera shop around here.
I told him forget the filter, just ship the lens. He said okay.
1 week later, they still haven't hit my card. I call back, ask about the order number, now they tell me it's out of stock. This is while I'm looking at their web page, which claims they have it in stock. I told them to just cancel my order, and fortunately they didn't give me any shit over it, I assume because it was only a $109 lens instead of a $3,000 camera.
Lesson learned: never order from a camera shop in Brooklyn.
This story hit digg early yesterday. Then it hit Metafilter a few hours later. Looks like /. is a liitle slow on the uptake.
http://expresscameras.com/welcome.asp Is also a shady grey market seller. They sold me a grey Nikon D100 that had dead pixels, and a photocopied manual. I also got lenses with dirt on the INSIDE of the glass. This might be the same company. I had to send the camera back 2 times before I got one that only had 2 dead pixels. At that point I had to leave on a trip so I could not return the camera. Don't buy from them. They also used to go under the name Hello Cameras.
deja vu: this story (and the pcworld article linked from it) almost perfectly describe what happened to me when i attempted to use froogle to buy a monitor last month. the phone calls that went nowhere, the arguments with sales managers about why a camera shop in new york would tell me i needed to buy a power adapter for my "international" model, and then, the eventual shutdown when i refused to budge.
after trying several places, i eventually spent $100 more at newegg, and got exactly what i wanted almost immediately.
i suppose this is a strong argument agaist froogle which, afaik, doesn't spend nearly as many man-hours policing its sellers as the other aggregators mentioned.
I know credit card charges can be a drain on small businesses, expecially for small transactions, but I was pissed. The local pizza place's minimum order requirement, despite being in direct conflict with their merchant agreement, wasn't displayed anywhere but the register (pay after you eat) and they tack on a $2 surcharge. On top of that, the guy wouldn't refund my buddy his cash, so we could combine the orders and meet the minimum. I told him to charge the card, but it would be more trouble than it was worth. I took a picture of his sign with my phone and sent the pictures and a receipts to Visa. They cancelled the charges outright and his account got yanked immediately.
The next time I went by, he actually ran out to his doorway and yelled about how I was ruining in his business and taking food out of his kids mouths. I told him I would buy lunch there more often, but he doesn't take Visa anymore.
Whether done with debit or credit, there's something consumers can do, and that, boys and girls, is called a "chargeback"!
It's a very simple call or a personal meeting to a manager at your bank stating that someone ripped you off and you would like your money returned to you.
The company has to do a lot to prove the charge was valid. If they actually ripped you off, then they won't go out of their way to dispute the chargeback.
In fact, this works TOO well. One time I ordered a product from overseas - the payment was processed the next day and I received an email saying the package shipped a few days later. Two weeks go by, no package. I contacted their company with emails and calls where they assured me that the package was shipped. I requested proof of a tracking number or receipt for the shipment, but received no response. I became suspicious of the situation, so I charged it back.
Not only did I get my money returned to me, but a few weeks later the product finally happened to arrive. Oops! But hey, they failed to assure me that I wasn't getting ripped off, so I did whatever I had to do to make sure it didn't happen.
People severely underestimate the power of the consumer.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
I wasn't making any "wild accusations of impropriety." I was just trying to point out that the mafia has better rackets than operating shady camera and electronic stores. I wasn't trying to tar all Jewish business as being shady either. Obviously, B&H is a good example of a reputable Jewish photo/electronics store. Nobody Beats The Wiz was too, before they were bought up by Cablevision. Also J&R Music World. But for every one of those, there's like a dozen of these little warehouses in Brooklyn or the west side of Manhattan. I'm just speaking from personal experience, being a former Broooklynite (Crown Heights) and having done business with some of these and being able to recognize a Yiddish accent or the fact that a guy named "Moishe Stern" is probably not Italian-American. I'm sure some of these are probably owned by Catholic or Orthodox Poles or Russians, too. There is a major Eastern European element in these businesses, as well. I'm sure some of them are even Indian or West Indian. It really doesn't matter. Someone made an accusation that these were mob fronts, and I wanted to point out that the majority of them probably have absolutely nothing at all to do with the mob. God's Duck has it right, though, it's an issue of demographics more than anything else. I was really just trying to dispel the myth that any kind of foul business based in New York or New Jersey is run by the mafia. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Sopranos is probably the worst thing that could have ever happened to our area in terms of public perception. Now everyone thinks it's cool to be a mobster and that everyone, particularly anyone Italian or Russian, in New York is a mafioso. You even have a lot of these rappers and such acting like they're mafiosi and giving themselves Italian pseudonyms. It's very upsetting to see this kind of thing glorified and to have an entire community's and an entire region's reputation sullied by it.
While Pricerite seems to be grade A jerks it is immature to try to DOS their website.
Complaints should go through normal channels. A few comments up there was a guy with the opposite perspective. He had an online store and was blown out of the water by a "conspiracy" that likely was due to the competition not liking him. He seemed like a nice guy.
So, what guarantee do you have that Pricerite aren't good guys and all the testimonials you have read are fictious? You would only need maybe 10 fictitious online identities to achieve this.
I think Pricerite probably deserve getting shafted. But not this way!
Sheesh...
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
They tried to fuck with me and I beat them back.
Last year they tried to dispute deductions for alimony payments. The deductions were perfectly legit. I had done my homework before making those claims.
I provided all the evidence they asked for, they still disputed. Unfortunately they picked the wrong time to mess with me because I was all fired up from getting ready for my divorce trial. When I got my CPA involved and fired back at their disputes USING THEIR OWN IRS PUBLICATIONS to prove my case, they finally relented with the original tax return unchanged.
This was a case of some auditor who did not know their own system too well. Nothing nasty ever happened, I was lucky to have all my paperwork organized, they had a tiger by the tail, and I can write a very firm and convincing letter. Even my divorce lawyer couldn't believe I got off the hook.
You CAN dispute the IRS if you know what you are doing.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Taken from http://thomashawk.com/2005/12/apology-letter-from- ed-lopez-owner-of.html An Apology Letter From Ed Lopez, Owner of PriceRitePhoto I received a call this morning from Ed Lopez, the owner of PriceRitePhoto. We spoke at length and he told me that the activity that has resulted from my post on my experience with his business has most certainly impacted his business. Mr. Lopez told me that he was calling to apologize and that Mr. Philips was going to be terminated at a company board meeting later on this morning. He confirmed to me that they do have the camera in question in stock and although I am not interested in purchasing it from them at this point indicated that he would sell it for me at the advertised price. Subsequently Ed sent me the following email: "On behalf of Priceritephoto I would like to sincerely apologize for the negative experience that you have experienced with our company. As a company this is not representative of the way we treat our customers. If there is anything that we can do at this point to rectify the situation, please let me know. We have tens of thousands of happy customers who have purchased form us in the past and it is our commitment to give our customers the best value when dealing with us. We are doing a comprehensive review of our company's procedures to ensure that something like this never occurs. We have also terminated Mr. Philips from his position with our company." Although I do not believe my "Steve Philips experience" was an isolated case by this merchant (and certainly the other testimonials suggest that this is in fact more of a common practice by them), my own personal view is that any retaliation towards this vendor should be channeled through legitimate and legal channels. Although some of the crank phone calls are actually pretty funny I think that it is better to take the high road in this case and to use legitimate resources where they exist, whether reporting them to the comparison pricing services or contacting the Attorney General (as I have done) or reporting them to people like the Better Business Bureau. I think that the popularity of this story comes in large part because the message resonates so strongly with all of us. Although in a sense it is the classic tale of David and Goliath retold, it is much more than this. We all have at one point or another in our lives been bullied and most of us have been defrauded or ripped off. The fact that so many times in the past there was nothing we could do about it makes us feel all that much better about the fact that in today's internet and blogosphere we actually CAN do something about it. It is tremendously empowering for all of us to be able to turn the powerlessness that we felt in the past into justice in todays' blogosphere through the help of things like Digg and Slashdot and Boing Boing. And although every rip off does not receive this level of attention, I believe this story in a greater sense is representative of perhaps thousands of rip off experiences that we have all suffered in the past and been able to do nothing about - some directly with this vendor, some directly with New York based camera vendors like this one, and some with just fraudulent internet businesses wherever they happen to be located. Because we in the past have had to live with the bitterness of our own personal frauds, our feelings towards the popularity of this story is that much stronger - as is our desire to retaliate. This being said, I again would encourage everyone to take the high road with respect to this vendor. I believe that the power of this story and the ultimate outcome, whatever that may be, will carry much more weight if as a public we handle things responsibly and do not resort to illegal tactics or harassment. Although there is a sense that we all must feel that these folks have gotten what they deserved, I think it would be a far greater legacy for this story to have if change takes place in legal a
It's an easy to use, shareable database.... that's very searchable and tied into the best search engine... all one need to is create an interface page or pages to add entries... including something like a rating field would let you sort based on peoples opinion of the site...
The reason I say to use googlebase instead of a hosted database is that the maintenance is taken care of by google... no worries about some guy hosting the list accidentally killing it or having to take it down for lack of funds to host it... also the data is stored at google so cease and desist actions would involve them and their legal team.
Googlebase seems the pefect solution to publishing public domain datasets, with this being a great example of the kind of data that you can't really make a lot of money off of and can potentially lead to issues if hosted privately by a small entity. Essentially this would become "Google e-Retailer Service Ratings" if they wanted to do it themselves (google that is) they could create a service around this but instead they've simply created an engine that lets all of us do it together for whatever topic we want.
If it became a dense enough set of data, Google could tie this into Froogle listings as well... and online stores could link to their listing to prove they have a good rating, etc. etc. based on a completely public system, rather than one owned and operated by a interested party.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.