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Cameras Online? How The Shysters Work
earlylate writes "How do certain photo and electronics dealers thrive despite widely-circulated warnings by unhappy customers? According to a new investigative website "many apparently separate and competing dealers are actually jointly owned and run" and "go to great lengths to conceal their locations and management." Further, some comparison-shopping sites "are in effect marketing partners with their affiliates," the very dealers they rate. There's a contest based on the suspicious "flood of similar, glowing reviews some dealers receive," as well as links to several sources of information and advice for the careful online shopper."
A lot of people don't realise the the big "price deal search engines" such as Kelkoo and Dealtime also return results based on the amount the retailers they link to have paid for a higher position. You'll often find you can dig up better deals just using Google. However, I know that at least one of the biggest UK online electronics retailers derives the highest percentage of paying click-throughs from Dealtime (that is, people referred by Dealtime, who then go on to actually buy a product). The Dealtime referrals actually result in more sales than people browsing their site to find stuff. So the idea/scam works well...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Don't mess with them... I tried once, it wasn't pretty. I still have to move every couple months so they don't find my location...
This post alone will give me away, I need to move again... but I needed to warn you all!
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Once bought a VCR some years ago. I went into one store and asked for a specific model of a VCR. I was quoted a price, then I went to another store. The clerk for the second store, after receiving my request, spoke into a walkie-talkie in his native language and then quoted me the same price. Now, perhaps it was coincidental, but both clerks appeared to be Indian. I didn't buy the VCR from either store.
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
I'd rather pay a little more and know that I'm buying from someone I can trust. So what if I can save a few bucks if I'm not sure I'm going to get exactly what I paid for? Sure I look for deals but it's a matter of balancing that against buying from someone reputable.
Bradley Holt
They made it so I couldn't order online anymore! Don't make them mad!!!
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
If you'd like to volunteer, let me know, I have a great camera I can give you for a low-low price, that would be perfect for the job.
Don't anthropomorphize computers: they hate that.
You mean to say that I shouldn't spend $100s based on the opinions of anonymous and untrusted (to me) sources.
I tell you, I'm shocked.
You'll be telling me next that the editorial in trade newspapers is somehow related to the advertising.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
only because of the fact that there is a sucker born every minute.
I don't think that the number of scams has really increased or anything...the information deluge from the internet makes it seem like there are more scammers now than before. The fact appears to be that in place of one sucker being swindled, now you have 10 suckers being swindled simultaneously.
A fool and his money...yada yada yada.
Here are some interesting pictures of the storefronts
Front doors
When it comes to expensive, and frequently fragile electronics, always buy local. This should be a no brainer. The on-line prices are too good to be true simply because the on-line retailers know they won't have to deal with the customer service part.
Just because you can, does not mean you should.
The unfortunate side effect is that shoppers will be less likely to go to mom and pop online retailers and will stick to the conglomerates. This makes is clear that it is in the best interest of honest online retailers and all those who sell services to them that they need to make a concerted effort to combat online fraud.
http://stockmarketgarden.com/
Never buy your electronics from front stores in the New York City area.
I have heard nothing but bad news about these New York City stores using bait and switch tactics and selling refurbished goods as new. You are better off using Froogle.com or cnet.com and then doing a little reading of the reviews about the sites that came back with the least expensive results.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Henchman, "I say, that scoundrel has surfaced in the United States. Shall we whack him?"
Don Worcestershire, "Quite."
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
I tend to pick a reputable retailer I've already done trade with, and if the price is more than say 10% different I just assume it's a scam and ignore it unless I know someone else personally who's traded with them. Even if the difference is less than 10% I still prefer to buy from companies I or my friends have dealt with. I may miss some good bargains that way, but I've never been scammed...
Game dev and music blog
Not so funny, I'm sure, if you fall for one of their tricks. Just buy for the good ones, seriously, B&H, Adorama, etc... (although I know tons of people have horror stories about both of those, and any other reputable camera dealer).
I had this about 2 years ago, ordered a camera from a place in NYC for a great price, they called to 'confirm the order' and tried to sell me extra batteries, and other stuff...telling me that the stock battery won't last long enough. I said no, they said OK, they never shipped, when I called I got the same runaround, also, not to be racist but I could tell they were arab, but they'd tell me their names were 'Steve' or 'Brad'. I ended up getting yelled at after I called again, and cancelled my order. I contacted my CC card and made sure they didn't/couldn't chage me...but it gave me a bad feeling for ordering online from smaller places. It reminds me of the 419 scams since all the websites look professional - but share similar graphics, you can tell it's a front. Wish I remembered the name of the company, but I'm sure they've swapped names by now. I just went and paid 50$ more thru amazon, and had the new cam in two days.
fak3r.com
I heard the voicemail one of these scumbags left for someone not too long ago. I don't know about others, but I would have had the police online to file charges... These people are scary.
Luckily, they're not the most intelligent people, as the voicemail seems to show. Calling someone a "bitch" repeatedly and threatening to kill them via an easily traced means is just asking for legal trouble. They don't know how to deal with the actual bad publicity they're starting to get. (Ratings sites are not actual bad publicity, since hardly anyone uses them, and there are many different ones).
I have a feeling this sort of scam will disappear in due time. It's getting harder and harder to hide from geeks with net connections and blogs, and bad word of mouth, unlike bad "reviews," is killer for a business. Just think of how many techies you know who refuse to buy a particular brand of hard drive simply for hearing about a friend's bad experience once.
Oh, the rest is a total shameless plug, but we did a bit about this on GeekNights last Thursday.
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
Use common sense. here's what I tell everyone that asks.
1) only buy from reputable sites. this has been going on since computer shopper days. its even more true today.
2) I only use my American Express (AMEX). I can't tell you how many times AMEX has helped with fraudulent charges, merchants that don't deliver etc. AMEX is expensive and a pain in the ass for mechants to sign up. If they are not willing to do that, than I won't buy. I will pay a slight premium for sights that take AMEX. It's worth it.
If I'd done both these when I first got online in the 90s I would have saved myself a lot of grief.
"It's technical in a psychometric kind a way" -- C. Parish
The two I trust:
PriceWatch.com
ResellerRatings.com
Most of those have been around for a long time. and the places with the glowing reviews always feel a bit suspicious when you dig deeper on them.
The fun part is that it highlights something that most people ignore. They will not think twice buying from someon on ebay with a 1000+ rating yet it is really simple to BUY rating points. (hint: search ebay for cupons) If you spend lots of money on something online and the price is too good to be true, be ready to lose your cash.
BTW: if it's less than $1000.00 you are pretty much hosed. I lost $500.00 to a scammer auto parts dealer on the east coast (read my blog for the name and location) and after getting my lawyer poised and finding out how much to bring the small claims suit against them It was much cheaper to simply drop it as it would have cost me $1500.00 to sue him... These scammers know this and that is why they rarely venture over that $1000.00 line.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Digital cameras currently have a very competitive market. Every site has the same models for within a few bucks of each other, pretty close to at-cost, and make it up on supplies (batteries, chargers, SD/XD/sticks/whatever storage medium, docks, printers, straps, cases, and of course the holy grail of ripoffs, the "extended warranty").
When you see a site advertising a given model for $100 to $250 less than everyone else, well, do you really think they plan to take a loss on the camera itself? And even if they did take a small loss (such as at-cost with free shipping), they sure as hell won't sell for less than they can ever dream of making back even if you bought every overpriced accessory they offer.
Just save yourself the trouble and use a reputable dealer like Amazon or NewEgg for any electronics. They usually have close to the lowest price, and factoring in the BS as part of the cost, they almost always win without even a second thought.
To think that in light of this, BestBuy stores seem like a nice place to shop!
I'd never trust a store who couldn't spell "right" correctly anyway. All you Grammar Nazis were right.
They all researched the cameras they wanted, and they thought they had adequately investigated the dealers. They saw the full-page ads in major photo magazines, the professionally-designed websites, the high dealer ratings on prominent search-sites. They saw all the trappings of the modern online secure shopping site. They trusted that their credit card companies, the respected magazines, and even the states which are home to the merchants, would help ensure a good transaction. And, of course, the prices were hard to resist. Why were our friends ultimately disappointed?
We took a look at some of the factors and some of the businesses involved, and we offer the information we've found to all who are considering purchasing cameras, video equipment and electronics from the comfort of their living rooms and offices.
This website is a partial scorecard. We hope it will help readers understand who some of the better-known dealers are, what's behind the ads and websites, and how to find further information.
We believe that open information benefits both consumers and dealers. We think the whole photographic industry -- hobbyists, professionals, dealers and manufacturers -- is healthier when consumers have clear idea of how to research a transaction and whom they will be dealing with.
We've tried to make these pages accurate. All the information included is from public sources. If you know of any errors, please inform us and we will correct them at once. If you have further information you think we should be aware of, contact us. (Please -- no rumors or speculation; only confirmable facts.)
Our contact details are here.
WELL KNOWN DEALERS
We have examined some of the online dealers who specialize in cameras and electronics, looking behind the ads and websites to find out who they are and how they do business. We chose some of the most visible companies -- the ones with heavy national advertising and prominent ranking on internet search engines. Many of them have sprung up in the last few years, while some have been around online and in traditional stores for decades.
Judging from customer surveys, newsgroup discussions and published articles, some of them are held in high regard while others are despised.
There were some surprises. The biggest one is that many apparently separate and competing dealers are actually jointly owned and run. This is no secret to followers of the many online photography and video forums, but we believe the intertwining is unsuspected by most consumers. On this site we've grouped many of the dealers into "families" to clarify their identities. They form a truly tangled web, with many overlapping corporate connections, addresses and telephones.
Another surprise was that some dealers act mainly as brokers, with little or no inventory of their own and no "real stores." In our opinion this should not disqualify a business from consideration, but it does contribute to frequent misunderstandings about what is "in stock".
The biggest obstacle to any research is that some dealers go to great lengths to conceal their locations and management. Sadly, this disguising seems to be the norm for many newer, web-only merchants.
We believe that open information benefits both consumers and dealers.
We have included the names of individuals where we could find them, so that consumers know whom to contact with compliments or questions or complaints about a specific transaction.
We believe that a businessperson who is proud of the way his or her business is conducted will be proud to be publicly associated with it.
Some of our information may be out of date, as some companies may change location, telephone numbers or personnel. We welcome updates or corrections via email here.
Sources Cited Much of the information on these pages is attributed to these sources:
Don't anthropomorphize computers: they hate that.
Two years ago I had to replace the headlight in my sedan. I eventually bought it from an Internet-based vendor but not before I realized that most of the sites I investigated were being run by a much smaller number of actual businesses.
I have no idea how many companies are doing business selling car parts on the Internet but I'm sure that it's a small fraction of the "front-ends" that appear to be doing business.
--Richard
I paid $100 for a headlight for
which the dealer quoted me $240.
Ok, so this site is trying to provide an impartial "scoreboard" system for determining if online retailers are trustworthy, but why should anyone trust these guys any more than any other merchant ranking site?
The site is up and down like a yoyo right now so I can't find out how they are gathering their information, I mean if it's all anecdotal how do they discern between legitimate issues, PO'ed customers or just plain ol' bad luck?
Personally, I only buy big ticket electronics and camera gear from local vendors because there is a bit less risk (i.e. no shipping) and I can put a human face on the store I'm buying from. I guess the other thing that makes me dubious about some online deals is when a vendor is claiming to sell something way below MSRP, that little "it's too good to be true" voice pipes up in my head.
crazy dynamite monkey
never before could you reach out to all of humanity
you guys realize there are some negatives to this idea? such as da wiseguys in crooklyn reaching out too?
"yeah, it just fell off da back of a truck, yeah da receipt is for a refiderator, so what's it to you mr. palookaville? you gonna come to brooklyn and make something of it, huh?"
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Being pro-market, I see the scammers as the worst aspect of any market. In the past, it can be argued that regulations and restrictions through government was needed -- scammers were able to swindle thousands to millions of dollars before people were able to get the word out and warn each other.
As the percentage of technically-savvy individuals grows, information about a dealer or retailer can be distributed in seconds. Thousands of individuals can moderate (or rate) a seller, and sellers can moderate (or rate) buyers instantly. eBay handles these transactions with very little government involvement or force.
Scammers (such as the photo retailers) have been suckering people for DECADES. This is WITH government "protection" that many citizens believe they can rely on, yet we still see thousands of people getting swindled.
As the old generation moves out of the buying phase and the new generation becomes the big power in buying, we will see less swindling and scamming. It is already very hard to scam someone in my age range (low 30s) as most of us check online before buying a large item. Google is adapting much of their search ability to cellphones (WAP, SMS and other means). I already check items out through my wireless PDA phone when I am on the go. I've saved myself a few hundred dollars by not purchasing items with bad reviews. I found these reviews through my phone in mere moments.
The old ways of the retail industry are dying. As a retailer myself (who lost one of our stores because of a scamming employee and manager base), I know that the customer has more power than I do. When all you had was a local shop to buy from, you weren't able to negotiate for better quality, service or pricing. With next day service from thousands of online shops, the retailers are put on notice that they better offer more than just a product, or they'll go out of business.
These photo scams will end without much government involvement. If they broke a contract or agreement, I can understand calling a lawyer. Hopefully in the short run enough people will comment about their bad experiences that the companies will be punished before more people are scammed -- and I see the strength of scammers quickly weakening as information is globally available, instantly.
"Once you know, you newegg". And Amazon for anything non-electronic....
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
unless it is adorama or B&H photo. They don't do sucker deals and have good reps in Photography circles.
Jonathan
Okay, except for maybe B&H Photo :)
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1914.html
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Anyway, I did get my camera, and you know what? It came with a high speed SD card. I wouldn't be surprised if they all ship like that, and they just do the high pressure sales thing to jack their profit margin up when they can.
I've been using Citibank/ATT Universal Card for online purchase. You can download an application that will let you generate a unique card number for each purchase. You can also limit the amount and set the expiration date.
After the purchase you can modify the amount or date and even cancel the number.
It won't stop you from making a dumb purchase but it will prevent excessive charges and unauthorized addtional charges to your credit card.
I, and my company, buy plenty from B&H and Adorama. Also had good experiences with K&M.
It's like any other major purchase... do your homework. Look for stores with established brick & mortar business and reputation. Don't be lured by too-good-to-be-true deals (they really are). Ask around with people who are in the know (there are plenty of photography enthusiast websites out there).
Yes, there are a lot of shady people running shady ops in shady neighborhoods in the NY area. But that doesn't mean there aren't reputable shops as well.
Caveat emptor.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
There are a few fine NY stores: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ http://www.adorama.com/ http://www.jandr.com/ In particular, B&H tends to carry everything photo related. Adorama carries almost as much as B&H. I've seen people happy with J&R, and I think 17th Street Photo (but I'm not sure of the last one), but they don't tend to have the depth B&H and Adorama has. So if you need say an Olympus 35-100mm f/2 lens, they will carry it, but you will get the glazed eye look if you ask for it at Best Buy. My one beef with B&H is they don't want to ship to maildrop places like The UPS store (I've had problems with delivery to the house, and prefer to get things delivered to the UPS store where somebody will sign for it, and I can pick it up at my leisure). So I tend to order from Adorama more often. Note that the price on these stores tends to be a fair price, but it isn't a 'deal' that the scam sites pretend to have.
What are you pair talking about? A shyster can be any cheat:
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=shyster
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shyster
Where did the Judaism ref com into things?
Justin.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Review sites for electronics and the like are chock full of super-cheesy, almost non-sensical reviews. If you look at reviews, and most of them consist of one or two lines of things that don't really matter, then it's a bogus review. There are so many of them, it becomes what I call "Surround and drown" fake reviews. Firefighters know that if you surround a fire with enough hoses, you can drown it sooner or later. These review sites have the same process, where all negative real reviews are drowned out by the fake ones.
"Timely shipping!" That one is my favorite fake review. Um, you ship via UPS or FedEx Ground. It's 3 days, no matter how you slice it. How can it not be timely?
"Great Customer Service!" Another of my favorites. The person hasn't done anything but buy something, in all likely hood. There hasn't been any customer service up to that point.
"Easy to use website ordering!" Um, yeah, that's the first thing I look for when buying electronics over the web.
If the review doesn't bring up any points, or doesn't provoke any honest thoughts, it is probably fake. Read the actual negative reviews.
Besides, why does this surprise anyone? The same thing can be said for almost every PC/XBox, PS/PS2 magazine or website. They all get such pats on the back from the companies they review, that they don't have an honest review in them. It's the equivelent of letting a lifelong, die-hard Rolling Stones fan review one of their concerts. The review is going to read "Dude, they Rawked!", even if Keith Richards was so stoned he forgot to play his guitar.
...the same rules apply now that applied 35 years ago when I started buying photo equipment. Most are places that will screw you one way or another. Some are downright crooks. And there are a few gems that stay in business year after year, garnering more and more loyal customers even though their prices aren't rock bottom.
Personally, I use BHPhotoVideo.com for darn near everything photographic. Some things, like flash brackets, are personal taste problems. You just gotta touch and feel before buying. But for everything else, B&H is either the best or so close I can't tell the difference. They're businesslike (even brusque, sometimes) on the phone but they're also professional and reliable. The number of similarly high-quality online dealers in this market segment can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Actually, you only need two - B&H and Adorama. There are a few specialty dealers who are good for other things and if you need what they sell, they're wonderful. But for the full line of general photo gear available online, it's B&H and Adorama.
The best guidance I know of for buying a camera or related equipment in the U.S. is at photo.net.
I think the biggest challenge is actually finding reputable reviews on-line. The problem with this large inbred group of scam vendors and review sites is that it floods google such that any search for:
"review " comes up with hundreds of bogus google bombs that have no valuable information in them. If you go to epinions.com, etc, unless an item has a fair number of reviews you can't trust that the reviewer isn't just astroturfing for the company's product.
For the areas I have some expertise like computer hardware or cameras, I know exactly where to look. But if I'm stepping slightly outside the bounds of my knowledge it becomes difficult. I was subscribed to Consumer Reports for a while but the flaw with them is that their information is always a year out of date it seems.
I'd definitely pay for a review site I could trust. Heck, I already do, having subscribed to Angie's List. Is there any equivalent for general consumer purchases?
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
unscrupulous lawyer 1843, U.S. slang, probably altered from Ger. Scheisser "incompetent worthless person," from Scheisse "shit," from O.H.G. skizzan "to defecate" (see shit).
shyster--'shIs-t Etymology: probably from German Scheisser, literally, defecator
: one who is professionally unscrupulous especially in the practice of law or politics : PETTIFOGGER
You're not helping anyone. You make people with a legitimate beef look petty and you present people with no bad intentions at all as anti-semitic (or specifically anti-Jewish, as there are a lot more semitic people than just Jews).
Now, go into a closet and say "niggardly" a hundred times.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
There is one at least that is a reputable dealer, B&H Photo. They are a massive store and sell still and video cameras from consumer up to extremely high end pro. They do audio gear, consumer and pro too. Of course because their are reputable their prices are good, but nothing special. However they are worth checking. I got my Yamaha reciever from them. Yamaha requires their recievers be purchased from a license dealer to honour warantee. All the local ones wanted full MSRP, however Yamaha lists B&H as a licensed dealer. Checked with them and it was much cheaper, even with $50 shipping.
So there ARE reputable dealers in New York, you just need to be careful. One thing to check is to see if they are authorized dealers. You can't fake something like that (Yamaha does the listing on their own site) and that's not something that a scammy, fly-by-night is going to do since the company wouldn't license them anyhow. If they are an authorized dealer for the companies that do that kind of thing, they are probably on the up and up.
I'll add my $0.02 based on my personal shopping experiences. I've had good results with:
Newegg (low prices, responsive customer service, prompt, very wide selection)
ZipZoomFly (lots of free 2nd day shipping, low prices, responsive customer service)
TechForLess (Bought an open-box UPS from them. Prompt, good prices)
AtomicPark (Software mainly but good prices and free shipping for holidays)
Amazon (books, cds, dvds)
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Well, since I live in Brooklyn I guess I'll just trot over to my friendly neighborhood Priceritephoto...
useless sig advice - Read Nabokov.
I just buy from B&H Photo or Adorama. They've been around for years and their prices are as low as you'll usually find. I've never had any problems ordering or returning merchandise and they don't pressure you.
http://www.bhphoto.com/
http://www.adorama.com/
The markups on electronics are very slim. If someone is selling you an electronic product for hundreds below everyone else you're being ripped off.
Actually, AMEX hasn't been as bad as I thought from the merchant side. The discount rate's not great, but I can live with it. Getting set up wasn't hard, and I pay like $5/month for service. Granted, I have very little AMEX volume, and larger merchants pay more. But no complaints so far...
In all likelihood it got dragged into the U.S. via Yiddish, hence the Semitic connection. Calling a Jewish lawyer a shyster is probably rather tasteless.
This is not my sandwich.
I recently purchased a Canon digital camera. I called the tech support line and asked for a recommendation. They sent me to a reputable reseller.
Here's a real world example of electronic store employees speaking in code.
The setup up paints it as racism, but its good ol' NY paranoia. Who do we trust? NOBODY.
/and for the record, his prices were insane
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
"Remember, most of the sites like pricewatch simply spider member sites for prices."
;-)
No... not true at all... the reason I have always used Pricewatch is that they _don't_ spider sites... each item listed on pricewatch is entered _by the the company providing the product_.
This makes pricewatch stand apart because the price that is on the website is actually the advertised price from the companies selling things.... so if they try to give you a different price when you actually order, you have some ground to stand on.
I have personally had a lot of good luck with pricewatch... but I haven't bought anything directly off there in over a year now... why? Well... mostly because I found Newegg. Sure newegg doesn't always have the _absolute_ lowest price (by a couple of bucks usually)... but their service (holy turnaround and shipping time!) and reputation more than makes up for it. I would rather pay $10 and get good shipping and know that my credit card wasn't stolen.... but maybe that's just me
Friedmud
Hey, don't knock lesbianteenelectronics.com They may sometimes sell products as new that are in fact slightly used, but I've found that pictures already on the memory card more than make up for it.
The best way I have found to get a good deal on a digital camera is to go out to a camera shop with a bundle of crisp pound notes. Speak to a sales assistant. Handle a few cameras. Ask if the assistant has tried them {why are they working in a camera shop if they don't love taking photographs?} What do they feel like in your hand? Note the layout of the controls, and check that your fingers are not going to get in the way of the lens -- or any of the other sensors like the auto-focus or the light meter. Does your shutter finger keep finding the on-off switch by mistake? *cough*FujiFilm*cough* How long does it take to store the picture and recharge the flash? Look at some test shots, or even better take some yourself. See if you can get a discount for cash, or something chucked in {another memory card, a multi-slot reader, free prints .....} And if the store staff don't treat you like you pay their wages, then don't pay their wages.
..... NB no penguin-shaggers please, these ones only do 2MPx without the special closed-source Windows driver.
There's still no substitute for real, live shops with real, live people in them. If you don't believe me, I have some very inexpensive 8 megapixel cameras you may want to buy
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
1. I submitted this site because thousands of camera buyers are victimized every year. Slashdot members, being more web-savvy than average, may be more aware and thus less susceptible. And less surprised at the site's information.
2. The word "shyster" was nowhere in my submission.
3. Many members send in links to promote commercial sites. The site I submitted is more or less a public service.
4. DANGEROUS GROUND alert! Perhaps slashdot should examine whether the shopping comparison site it is allied with is one of those that allows itself to be used by the villains we've been discussing. (Look up your favorite digital camera, and see what dealers show up near the top of the list with clusters of rave reviews.)
Once you know, you Newegg. If you must use online places other than Newegg, I agree entirely with earlier posters who mentioned resellerratings. Oh and BTW never trust the ratings on Pricewatch, they are always stacked, even Target PC Inc is rated well there, and they are so far from reliable that they almost made me stop shopping online.
only because of the fact that there is a sucker born every minute.
This is a horrible quote.
It's a quote that was born from the realization that someone could take advantage of a trusting public on a mass scale. In other words, someone could easily make money through fraud using the trust of an inexperienced public as the lube, so to speak.
This means that the public likely hasn't encountered an asshole as big as the person saying, "There's a sucker born every minute." The notion of calling them "suckers" is a way of making it seem like they *deserve* to be defrauded. Have you had "friends" who thought it was smart/funny/cool to take advantage of your trust? Do you have a high opinion of a human who wants to make a *career* of that skill?
To me, the fact that the quote exists and isn't derided in the same way that we deride "Let them eat cake" is a sign of degeneracy in our culture. Yes, that's a value-judgement-charged statement, and I make no apology for it. We all have to stand somewhere, and I think fraud (and especially the notion that some people deserve to be defrauded) sucks to high hell.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.