Yahoo Updates Konfabulator

Please spell the name correctly by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 14:34 · Score: 4, Funny

It's Yahoo! with the !.

Thank! You!
The! Yahoo! Branding! Team!

Re:Please spell the name correctly by Geoffreyerffoeg · 2005-12-12 16:43 · Score: 4, Funny

Yahoo! = Yahoo * Yaho * Yah * Ya * Y, right?
Re:Please spell the name correctly by revividus · 2005-12-12 19:13 · Score: 1

I think it would be (1 * 2 * 3 * ... * Yahoo), but your version looks funnier.

--
philcrissman.com.
Re:Please spell the name correctly by Negatyfus · 2005-12-12 20:07 · Score: 1

Ya rly?
Re:Please spell the name correctly by Carnildo · 2005-12-13 06:51 · Score: 1

Yahoo! = Yahoo * Yaho * Yah * Ya * Y, right?

No, it's big-endian:
Yahoo! = Yahoo * ahoo * hoo * oo * o

--
"They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.

OK, so? by big+tex · 2005-12-12 14:36 · Score: 1, Insightful

What changed?
Is this a marketing version number upgrade, or what?

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I think I need a new sig here.

Re:OK, so? by Bogtha · 2005-12-12 14:40 · Score: 4, Informative

No. There are new widgets, updates to existing widgets, and engine changes. Read the version history for more details.

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Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
Re:OK, so? by lpangelrob · 2005-12-12 14:43 · Score: 5, Informative

Is this a marketing version number upgrade, or what?

Well, no. But first of all... Google has widgets?
There's been a lot of widget-developer-friendly changes. See the version history for all of the 3.0 pages. The biggest change has been the introduction of a substantial number of Yahoo! related widgets. More than a few people have basically said Konfabulator/Widget Engine sold out to Yahoo, but to be honest, they're slick, useful widgets if you're the sort that depends on them.
The changes mostly have to do with an increase of speed (built-in XML parser), a better arrangement system involving frames (good things here, as opposed to in HTML) and a little smoother around the edges.

--
-Rob
Biblical fiscal responsibility
Re:OK, so? by aichpvee · 2005-12-12 15:03 · Score: 1

"Widgets are useful to portals because they can draw users to their services directly from the desktop, without first having to launch a browser."
Why would anyone close their web browser?

--
The Farewell Tour II
Re:OK, so? by Quarters · 2005-12-12 15:18 · Score: 2, Informative

Google has widgets?
Yes. For Google Desktop sidebar. http://desktop.google.com/plugins/.
Re:OK, so? by Bacon+Bits · 2005-12-12 15:21 · Score: 1

What the heck is wrong with selling out? I'd love to sell out! Who cares if the indie or underground groups think my product has jumped the shark? I've now got money, my name on a well-known product, and probably the ability to go and work on whatever I want.

--
The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
Re:OK, so? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 15:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

A little unclear on what a "widget" is, are we?

Widgets are little browser components that use Web technologies like HTTP for the static stuff and AJAX for the interactive stuff to present the user with information or provide small, single-use applications.

Google Desktop sidebar plug-ins aren't widgets, which is why they don't call them widgets. They call them sidebar plugins.
Re:OK, so? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 15:29 · Score: 0

Uh, you're the one who's unclear. Have you ever used Konfabulator? It's a pure desktop application that has little or nothing to do with the web. This is all a rip-off of the OSX dashboard.
Re:OK, so? by Jozer99 · 2005-12-12 15:50 · Score: 4, Informative

I'm a pretty serious konfabulator user, and I also write some widgets, which gives me a bit of insight into the inner workings and bugs. This is a pretty major upgrade, but mostly bug fix wise. The old 2.1.1 version was pretty buggy (javascript wise), although there were plenty of workarounds. The newer version has many less missing or incorrectly implimented javascript commands, although 2 minutes of testing revealed several major things they still havent fixed. If it were only the bug fixes, I would wholeheartedly recomend the upgrade, but as is, they added some obnoxious warning messages about using "non-yahoo supported" widgets, which discourages third party widget designers. You can't argue with free though.
Re:OK, so? by rm69990 · 2005-12-12 16:10 · Score: 1

Possibly because the majority of people don't spend every waking second posting on random websites? They do stuff like...ummm...write documents, listen to music, watch videos, download pr0n, send emails, run a tax program once a year, use p2p. None of these require a web browser. For most of the people I talk to, a web browser is something they use occasionally, maybe once a day. For most of the people I talk to now that I think about it, a computer is something they use occasionally, maybe once or twice a day.
Re:OK, so? by Meagermanx · 2005-12-12 17:47 · Score: 1

You can if it makes your desktop look like a MySpace page.
Re:OK, so? by dan+the+person · 2005-12-12 19:27 · Score: 1

More than a few people have basically said Konfabulator/Widget Engine sold out to Yahoo

Gee that wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that konfabulator sold out to Yahoo would it?
Re:OK, so? by wcbarksdale · 2005-12-12 19:33 · Score: 1

I don't get it... was this modded funny because it was considered karma whoring?
Re:OK, so? by J0nne · 2005-12-12 20:59 · Score: 1

Could the people that modded that funny explain the joke to me? It seems to have gone right over the top of my head...
Re:OK, so? by Quarters · 2005-12-13 01:43 · Score: 1

A little unclear on what a "widget" is, are we? I'm not. You might be. Don't lump me in with you in your plural "we", please. It makes me look bad by association.
Widgets are little browser components that use Web technologies like HTTP for the static stuff and AJAX for the interactive stuff to present the user with information or provide small, single-use applications. Widgets existed long before AJAX became a buzzword. Widgets aren't browser components, either. There are myriad Konfabulator, DeskTopX, etc... widgets that don't link to any browser whatsoever. You really are confused about what a "widget" is, aren't you?
Google Desktop sidebar plug-ins aren't widgets, which is why they don't call them widgets. They call them sidebar plugins.
Or, it could be that Google uses the term plug-in because more people recognize that than "widget". Lets see, Konfabulator lets people use a simple programming language to build utilities that sit on the desktop. Google Sidebar lets people use a simple programming language to built utilities that sit in a container on the desktop. They seem pretty darned alike to me, regardless of how you try to confuse the situation.
Re:OK, so? by lpangelrob · 2005-12-13 02:55 · Score: 1

"Selling out" as a descriptive term is fine, but then users go on to say that Konfabulator would be best served by staying independent and free of corporate influence. Then Konfabulator as we knew it would be dead with two part-time (at best) developers
If people would rather see software dead than their developers given more development time in exchange for name recognition, then we have come to a sad time.

--
-Rob
Biblical fiscal responsibility
Re:OK, so? by SewersOfRivendell · 2005-12-13 03:12 · Score: 1

You can't argue with free though.

You can if there is _other_ free. Dashboard. Maybe Google Widgets in the future, if Google sees value in it. Probably Microsoft Widgets in the future.

Frankly, I think Yahoo just blew a big wad of cash. Microsoft will almost certainly follow Apple's lead and do their own widget architecture, and at that point it makes zero sense to maintain your own widget engine for either platform. Just hook into the platform-native services and write your own widgets. There is value in backwards compatibility with old OS's, but it diminishes rapidly with time.
Re:OK, so? by JhohannaVH · 2005-12-13 06:20 · Score: 1

But did they fix the badass memory leaks? :P That's the whole reason I quit using Konfab, because it ate up my memory like there was no tomorrow. *probably* because the Java apps I was running in congruence were stomping all over everything. But that's what happens when enterprise software starts being all java based. *ralph*

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Sorry man... the Internet pooped on me.
Re:OK, so? by Jozer99 · 2005-12-13 14:38 · Score: 1

No, its the same as ever. All the fixes were minor, none of the fun problems were fixed.

Interesting by pHatidic · 2005-12-12 14:38 · Score: 1, Insightful

If I already use OS X, can konfabulator do anything for me? It seems like there should be some sort of universal language for crafting these widgets now that they are getting very popular.

Several prominent Slashdot users accused of being pedophiles by Perverted-Justice

Re:Interesting by ThinkingInBinary · 2005-12-12 14:40 · Score: 1

There is. It's JavaScript. That's what Dashboard uses, at least.

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ttuttle is a rankmaniac
Re:Interesting by Jozer99 · 2005-12-12 15:52 · Score: 2, Interesting

Widgets for Konfabulator are a lot easier to make. This encourages a lot more community than the Apple widgets. However, since they are easier to make, you also see quite a few buggy widgets (although there are by no means a shortage of good widgets). You might as well give it a try, see if there are widgets out there that you like better than the apple ones.
Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 16:31 · Score: 1, Interesting

I use OSX Tiger, and I have found that I like Konfabulator/Yahoo! Widgets engine a lot more than Dashboard. I have Dashboard disabled now.
Dashboard has nifty Quartz-affects, but Konfabulator is a lot more practical. It takes up less memory and process time for one thing. I can have the widgets on either the desktop layer, the window layer, floating, or in the Konspose dashboardesque layer, whereas with Dashboard you can only have widgets in the Dashboard layer. It's also a lot easier to make and modify Konfabulator widgets than Dashboard widgets.

--Q
Re:Interesting by Tibor+the+Hun · 2005-12-12 17:00 · Score: 1

i too use konfabulator on my desktop on os x. for some reason i like having the windows be a part of my desktop so they're always there, rather than having to hit a button for a dashboard.

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If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Re:Interesting by squiggleslash · 2005-12-12 17:01 · Score: 1

It can save you $130 if you don't particularly want to upgrade to Tiger and have no need for Tiger's other, non-Konfabulator-like, features...

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:Interesting by John+Frink · 2005-12-12 18:28 · Score: 1

I like your sig link but here's another one for ya about trekkies, kinda off topic though:

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/justice/article. jsp?content=20050530_106573_106573

--
Who is this Jimmy character, and why was he cracking corn in the first place?
Re:Interesting by Fred_A · 2005-12-12 21:07 · Score: 1

Same here. Plus you can ventilate them between desktops.

I'm not a *real* Mac user (basically just wanted a Unixy laptop) but to me Dashboard was an interesting idea that was poorly implemented. It's a memory hog and isn't practical to use. I haven't disabled it yet but reading your post I notice that I haven't activated it for at least a month.
I guess it's gotta go...

--

May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
Re:Interesting by coleridge78 · 2005-12-13 02:15 · Score: 1

FYI, Dashboard widgets don't have to stay in the Dashboard. You can have them on the desktop, permanently floating, or open them in a web browser (though why you'd do the last one, I have no idea).
Re:Interesting by cunamara · 2005-12-13 02:49 · Score: 1

From the reports on VersionTracker, the OS X version seems to be badly broken. Whether that's a problem with the Yahoo! programming team's work or with Apple's implementation of Java, I don't know.
Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-13 12:56 · Score: 0

What a mean troll, there is no link to or mention of slashdot in there at all! You could at least make it more believable, fake sig stuff like that sticks out to non-logged in users.

I would say your trolling attempt is a disappointment, but mod point wise you are still doing quite well.

Fuck... If PJ wants some pedophiles to screw with, they should get the sickos at www.4chan.org.

its 1996 again ! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 14:39 · Score: 5, Funny

hurrah for Active Desktop !
lets party

Re:its 1996 again ! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 16:10 · Score: 0

Time to push the "Push Technology" again!

Imagine widgets that would show you all kinds of ads, uh, useful information, cool!
Re:its 1996 again ! by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2005-12-12 16:22 · Score: 1

Active desktop did this? I had not seen any Active Desktop app that did what Konfabulator has done.
Re:its 1996 again ! by Baricom · 2005-12-12 16:29 · Score: 1

Dashboard actually makes for a better comparison with Active Desktop. In both cases, you're essentially running a web browser with no chrome and enhanced access to the operating system. The major difference (in my mind) is that Dashboard allows transparent backgrounds, while Active Desktop does not (plus the obvious IE-only features, like ActiveX).
Re:its 1996 again ! by muchmusic · 2005-12-12 17:21 · Score: 1

Active desktop could not do anything of the sort - no runtime availability, no konspose / expose functionality - only the same base functionality is there.

--
-- If an artist saw things as they truly are, they would cease to be an artist.
Re:its 1996 again ! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-13 00:18 · Score: 0

Active desktop if used with a local file gives you full system access, filesystem, run executables, create files, access the registry, basically via ActiveX anything that an .EXE can do

run an exe ?

var oWsh = new ActiveXObject("WScript.Shell");
oWsh.Run("C:\\path\\to\\myfile.exe")

whats the point by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 14:42 · Score: 0

umm http://www.ggstfu.com/ google, i actually think yahoo is going to beat google's little desktop search especially with this new update. and the gadgets look a lot better than google's.

Afraid to install.. by CeleronXL · 2005-12-12 14:45 · Score: 1

I'm afraid to install it. Is it worth it? It looks like it's loaded with the typical Yahoo! superflous-ware.

Re:Afraid to install.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 14:51 · Score: 0

Actually, I tend to recall the current version of the Yahoo! instant messaging client to be remarkably clean. All the ugly could be turned off--leaving you with the sour taste of oversized purple window borders in your mouth--but still. Only ads under webcams.

(Some, such as "Rather be looking at someone else?" particularly painful when talking to [prospective] family members...)
Re:Afraid to install.. by wile_e_wonka · 2005-12-12 15:22 · Score: 3, Interesting

This is one of those programs that you've gotta download to decide if you like it. I think it's good looking, and I like having a calendar and notepad on my desktop. I also like that you can change the "widgets." ie--the "slide show" had options for how long to show each slide, but I use it to show my syllabi so I know my homework and I didn't want it to change. So I got the "Widget converter" and added a "change slides never" option to the preferences menu (which now changes the slides ever zero seconds). It took me all of 5 minutes and I have essentially zero programming experience. I recommend looking through the "Widgets" to see if you think there's anything useful, and decide if it's worth its cost in RAM usage (which I haven't found to be too bad).
Re:Afraid to install.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-13 00:17 · Score: 0

I just tried them and I'm unimpressed. For a start they over indulge in the non-rectangular, semi-transparent, plasticy look that "kewl" apps all to often go for. As such they don't fit well on my desktop. Also the ones I tried seem too big for what they are - they aren't very discreet.
Yahoo tells me they've kindly set up F8 as a way to bring all the widgets to the front and shade out all my other apps.

I tried a couple of traffic cam widgets that seemed stuck with images from August.

In general all the widgets seems pretty sluggish.

Oh and there are the obligatory check boxes to "Make Yahoo my homepage" etc. etc...

Add/Remove programs here I come...
Re:Afraid to install.. by instarx · 2005-12-13 18:07 · Score: 2, Informative

I'm afraid to install it. Is it worth it? It looks like it's loaded with the typical Yahoo! superflous-ware.

I installed it because I got a message saying there was another "Konfabulator update" to my current version. I let out a small groan when I saw it had morphed into Yahoo! Widgets but so far except for seeing the Yahoo! name too may times during the install, Yahoo! is leaving me alone. Install screens now look more Corporate and less homespun Konfabulator-like but so far all my widgets still work and look the same and I haven't gotten any pop-ups, branding, or Yahoo messages.
Re:Afraid to install.. by neostorm · 2005-12-15 13:11 · Score: 1

So was I. I gave it a go, but their "installer" is one of those small apps that you download and then run, and then it connects to some server to download the *real* installer (while sending them all your PC's information straight to marketing, I suspect). One step away from spyware.

Screw that. I knew I should have grabbed a version of this application before Yahoo messed with it. Just giving you a heads up though it's probably too late.

News to me... by gralem · 2005-12-12 14:48 · Score: 1

Yahoo! bought Konfabulator? Neither company means much these days, so I haven't really been following.

---gralem

Re:News to me... by scsscs · 2005-12-12 17:24 · Score: 3, Informative

You should. Yahoo has refocused itself and is starting to be a serious competitor to Google. Things Yahoo has done recently:

Partnered with Six Apart to pre-install Movable Type on their small business hosting
Purchased Del.icio.us
Launched Yahoo Answers
Launched Yahoo Shoposphere
Launched a new version of Yahoo Maps
Launched Yahoo Blog Search
Launched Yahoo Podcasts
Purchased Konfabulator
Launched Yahoo My Web 2.0
Purchased Flickr.com

Yahoo will also soon be launching a new version of Yahoo Mail which will include AJAX/DHTML tech they got from their purchase of Oddpost, RSS, an API and additional design updates.
Re:News to me... by friedmud · 2005-12-12 18:51 · Score: 1

This is a great post...

I have been one of the google "cheerleaders" for a while now... but within the last few months I have:

A. Signed Up for a Flickr account (and paid for a Pro account)... and uploaded over 1000 pictures
B. Started Using Del.icio.us religiously
C. Registered 3 Domains using Yahoo (they have a good price, I trust them, I like their interface for managing domains).
D. Started a Yahoo fantasy football league.

A couple of things I can't give up from Google:
A. Searching - Google really is better
B. GMail - God I love that interface
C. Reader - it just works the way I think
D. Personalized Homepage - Yeah I know... yahoo has that too... but it doesn't display my Gmail inbox ;-)

All in all, I am starting to have more of my traffic head towards yahoo related sites... when you add it all up it looks like Yahoo is starting to get their game on against Google... it will be an interesting fight!

Friedmud
Re:News to me... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 22:01 · Score: 0

Things Yahoo did too:

get some chinese internet journalist convicted...

I don't support such companies...
Re:News to me... by Geoffreyerffoeg · 2005-12-13 11:51 · Score: 1

Things Yahoo did too:

get some chinese internet journalist convicted...

I don't support such companies...

By that logic, you must be a citizen of a country with no army, because any country with an army is willing to kill people, and killing people is worse than convicting a Chinese journalist, and you definitely can't support such countries, can you?

It's appropriate to put pressure on Yahoo! as a community. It's stupid to organize a one-man boycott of a giant organization because one guy somewhere did something that you're morally opposed to. I bet you at least one of its executives have committed adultery; does that mean that priests who have Y!Mail accounts support adultery?

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by PsychicX · 2005-12-12 14:48 · Score: 2, Informative

You're right, Konfabulator is a complete rip off of Apple's Dashboard. How dare those douche bags rip off and implement Apple's software years before Apple even get around to adding it to OSX?

In case you didn't get the hint, Konfabulator (now YWE apparently) predates Apple Dashboard. A lot.

Microsoft's take by teslatug · 2005-12-12 14:48 · Score: 5, Informative

Microsoft is also dabbling in widget's, or as they call them gadgets. There is a long video interview about the "gadgets" and their version of Dashboard.

Re:Microsoft's take by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 15:07 · Score: 0

You make it sound like Apple invented the whole widgets idea. Don't forget they _stole_ it from the Konfabulator team. Yahoo at least bought them, instead of robbing them.
Re:Microsoft's take by bergeron76 · 2005-12-12 15:44 · Score: 1

You mean kind of like how Microsoft's Internet Explorer was just a purchase of Netscape?

Oh wait, that didn't happen. You just make it sound like Microsoft perfected the idea of browsers.

--
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
Re:Microsoft's take by MsGeek · 2005-12-12 16:04 · Score: 1

Good artists copy. Great artists steal.

--
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Re:Microsoft's take by eosp · 2005-12-12 16:05 · Score: 0, Troll

Of course. Microsoft(R) did invent the Internet(R) Browser(TM). They embraced IP, extended it with HTML, and then extinguished it with ASP.
Re:Microsoft's take by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 16:06 · Score: 1, Interesting

Internet Explorer was the child of Mosaic.
Re:Microsoft's take by strider44 · 2005-12-12 16:34 · Score: 1

Dashboard aye? Oh you mean the thing that was a takeoff of [Super]Karamba? And before anyone makes a smart reply, I am actually interested in knowing what [Super]Karamba was a takeoff of, so a polite reply would be much better.

(And yes I know I'm a hypocrite)
Re:Microsoft's take by strider44 · 2005-12-12 16:41 · Score: 1

Looking through Wikipedia the trail traced back to DesktopX in 2000, beating Dashboard by almost 5 years.
Re:Microsoft's take by squiggleslash · 2005-12-12 17:04 · Score: 1

They did invent them. In 1984. Of course, Apple called them "Desktop Accessories" then, not "Widgets".
Surely you're not proposing that writing them in HTML and JavaScript makes them an entirely different thing?

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:Microsoft's take by Refrag · 2005-12-13 01:19 · Score: 1

Internet Explorer was originally Spyglass Mosaic. Microsoft licensed it from Spyglass in a dirty deal where they would pay a minimum quarterly fee and then a percentage of IE's revenue. As we all know, IE never had any revenue.

--
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Re:Microsoft's take by njyoder · 2005-12-13 04:01 · Score: 1

That claim about Desktop Accessories has been debunked, they're not like Konfabulator: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/ 17
Re:Microsoft's take by squiggleslash · 2005-12-13 04:37 · Score: 1

No, it hasn't been debunked. I respect Ars a lot, but they're just plain wrong. They're arguing that "Desktop Accessories" is too liberal an idea for an implementation to be considered a rip-off of it. However, even there, they use an overly liberal definition that includes, for example, the existing OS X "Calculator.app", when in fact that app is far from being an example of Desktop Accessories, the separately managed set of basic tools that live outside of the Applications/Windows paradigm. Calculator.app does not appear in my Apple window. It cannot be made to work that way. It doesn't appear and disappear any faster than a normal application. It isn't managed as part of a group of documentless apps.
The only other platform that ever re-implemented accessories, before Konfabulator, was GEM. Outside of that, the nearest I can think of would be the TSR tools for MS DOS that tried to achieve something similar, but lived outside of a GUI (which most would argue would be a fundamental part of desktop accessories as an idea.) So Ars's contention that this is a generic technology that somehow "lived in the public consciousness" is simply nonsense. After GEM, which very obviously copied Apple, there were no new implementations of the concept until Konfabulator came along. The technology, until a year or two ago when Konfabulator was ported to Windows, never existed for Windows. I've never seen it implemented in X11.
What Konfabulator brought to the table was HTML and Javascript. Beyond that, the apps it supports are barely different in functionality from those Mac OS 1 supported. This is certainly an improvement - part of the reason desktop accessories practically died out is that they were a pain in the arse to actually develop. The original implementation allowed for, say, code in Pascal, but in practice, space limitations meant pure assembler was, realisticly, the only way they could be implemented. Space limiations, over time, became less of an issue, but only after developers had ceased even looking at the technology.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:Microsoft's take by njyoder · 2005-12-13 05:17 · Score: 1

After GEM, which very obviously copied Apple, there were no new implementations of the concept until Konfabulator came along.

The fact that it was so long afterward should tell you that people had forgotten about Desktop Accessories. Most people, even MAc users, had no idea what they were until someone brought it up again in this context.

The technology, until a year or two ago when Konfabulator was ported to Windows, never existed for Windows. I've never seen it implemented in X11.

But there are similar things for X11. Even earlier window managers included very basic "mini apps" like a little clock and that moving eyes thing, and a calculator. These came along with Twm, which was created in 1987. They may even predate it, but I'm not sure. Of course, those are too liberal to fit any reasonable definition of something "widget like."

What Konfabulator brought to the table was HTML and Javascript. Beyond that, the apps it supports are barely different in functionality from those Mac OS 1 supported.

Oh, but it's the underlying architecture that makes it what it is. "Difference in functionality" is m eaningless without some unified framework to tie it all together. How those widgets interoperate with eachother is exactly what makes them widgets. A simple bunch of independent mini apps don't really qualify, as those could always be written in any language for any OS without the need for a special "widget engine."

As per your own description, you're relying on a very liberal interpretation of what it means to be a "widget engine," which suggests that it wasn't a rip off at all. They were nothing more than a hack to allow shitty multitasking in a non-multitasking OS. So in essence, it's just a multitasking driver. Other than the API necessary to multi-task, there is no unified API. You could easily make the programs look like whatever, there were no technical restricitons or designs in place to enforce it (beyond social mandate). So all they really are is independent, multitasking programs intended to look vaguely similar.

I suggest you take a look at this page for an idea of what they were like: http://www.guidebookgallery.org/articles/atourofth emacdesktop/desktopaccessories
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desk_Accessory

2 brief comments. by Nightspark · 2005-12-12 14:52 · Score: 1

First point: we know what widgets are. We're reading /. and don't need a definition. Second point: since when does Google offer rival widgets? They have Google Desktop, yes, but that's no Konfabulator or Dashboard.

Re:2 brief comments. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 22:34 · Score: 0

I thought widgets were like minimize and maximize and close and filesystem navigators I don't know what this whole thread is about but it sounds like applets...

I want my konfab back by thelost · 2005-12-12 14:53 · Score: 0

gah I only ever used it because of the funky name, now... i don't want Yahoo! widgets, sounds like really cheap and nasty fast food.

--
Promote Charity on Myspace, Show Your Colours!

Re:I want my konfab back by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 15:53 · Score: 0

Right click, rename. :P
Re:I want my konfab back by tommers · 2005-12-12 16:10 · Score: 1

Cheap and nasty fast food? How do you figure? I could definitely see Yahoo! Widgets being the prize with that fast food, but I've never heard good branded with anything like widgets.
Re:I want my konfab back by flood6 · 2005-12-12 16:58 · Score: 1

Yeah, I'm curious how adding "Yahoo" will change things, too. I downloaded a presentation by Nat Friedman the other day about Hula. He mentioned how branding open source products with the corporate name turns off potential users and developers. I think he used the example, would you rather hack on "Hula" or "Novell Groupware Suite".
It seems kind of minor, but I can see how it would make a big difference. I can't help but wonder if Yahoo should have kept the old name and just added a little "Presented by Yahoo!" or something near the corner of the logo.

--
SEO Firefox Extension
Re:I want my konfab back by thelost · 2005-12-12 18:02 · Score: 1

yahoo! chunky widgets, 5 for $0.99 Tomato sauce extra

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Promote Charity on Myspace, Show Your Colours!

Calendar by nEoN+nOoDlE · 2005-12-12 14:53 · Score: 1

I've been waiting for the Yahoo! Calendar widget ever since Yahoo! bought Konfabulator, but it's still not released. What gives?

--
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.

Re:Calendar by rm69990 · 2005-12-12 16:19 · Score: 1

Actually yes it was. After upgrading, I noticed they had re-added a widget (can't remember which one) that comes with the default install, so I double clicked it, and there is an option for Yahoo! Calendar.
Re:Calendar by Dylan+Zimmerman · 2005-12-12 16:32 · Score: 2, Informative

It's there. Look for "Day Planner". It was formerly "PIM Overview", but they changed the name and gave it the ability to access Yahoo! Calendar information.

Yahoo! Maps also gets an updated widget by Lord+Satri · 2005-12-12 14:53 · Score: 1

From Spatially Adjusted: The new updated Yahoo! Maps Widget works well on my computer and it is very simple to use (just type your search string in the box and hit enter). You can download it from their new site.

--
Animoog.org

How do you uninstall it? by stankulp · 2005-12-12 14:55 · Score: 5, Interesting

I hate it and can't get it to go away.

There is no "uninstall" in the program group, and it does not show up in Control Panel - Add/Remove Programs.

I just want it to go away.

--
We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower

Re:How do you uninstall it? by runlvl0 · 2005-12-12 15:26 · Score: 2, Informative

There is no "uninstall" in the program group, and it does not show up in Control Panel - Add/Remove Programs.
Not to be a killjoy (which is curiously indistinct from being a BillJoy), but did you look under "Yahoo! Widget Engine"? It's in my Add/Remove progams in Windows XP, and it comes out just fine. (Although in my case, it went right back in, because I like the memory/CPU utilization widgets - it's like GKrellM, but pretty!)

--

Carthago delenda est!
Re:How do you uninstall it? by bergeron76 · 2005-12-12 15:29 · Score: 1

You mean you don't have any interest in "Toxicant Radio Song Status" widget? You must hate America you techno-hippie! How dare you actually think for yourself you selfish commie-terrorist-in-the-making.

Have a blessed day!

--
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
Re:How do you uninstall it? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 22:55 · Score: 0

AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! The only thing funnier than Slashdork is its trolls. *snicker* AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Re:How do you uninstall it? by prisoner-of-enigma · 2005-12-13 03:38 · Score: 1

There is no "uninstall" in the program group, and it does not show up in Control Panel - Add/Remove Programs.

I'm not sure what planet you're operating your computer on, but here on Earth I find there is an entry in the Add/Remove Programs list. It's at or near the very bottom because it begins with "Yahoo!" Try opening your eyes a bit before you complain next time.

--
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

google widgets. .. where ? by icepick72 · 2005-12-12 14:55 · Score: 1

By Google widgets, did you mean the Google Desktop thingy? If there's another set of widgets, I wouldn't mind a link from somebody. Thanks.

Re:google widgets. .. where ? by ramsj900 · 2005-12-12 17:32 · Score: 1

GDS (Google Desktop Search for the uninitiated) version 2 offers a sidebar experience complete with a choice of which panels (googlespeak for widgets) to serve up. What I like is the way I can access all the ActiveX plug-ins from IE6 to run on the sidebar. This way I have all the insecurity of IE6 right at my fingertips on my desktop!

--
Relax, aren't you lucky that it is only my Opinion?

Requirements... by 3770 · 2005-12-12 14:55 · Score: 4, Funny

I love the requirements they list (especially note the last one):

* Windows XP with Service Pack 1 installed or Windows 2000 with Service Pack 3 installed, or newer, or Mac OS X 10.3 or newer.
* A connection to the Internet.
* 512 megabytes of RAM is recommended.
* Lots of spare time.

--
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!

Re:Requirements... by Jozer99 · 2005-12-12 15:56 · Score: 1

It uses lots of resources, especially RAM. Each widget uses between 5mb and 40mb of RAM (the 40MB ones are mostly the horrible yahoo made ones).
Re:Requirements... by tommers · 2005-12-12 16:13 · Score: 1

Hmm. I'm running Picture Frame, Maps, Search, Weather, and Stock Ticker and they have between 3 to 9 megs each. What widget is using 40?

But, I agree that 40 megabytes total is still more than I'll probably want to spare.
Re:Requirements... by Jozer99 · 2005-12-12 16:16 · Score: 1

Leave your comp on for a couple of hours, and weather will use 38mb. I use WinXP MCE 2005 SP2 with a P4, pretty common stuff.
Re:Requirements... by tommers · 2005-12-12 16:23 · Score: 1

About the same settings for me and I've had all my Widgets running since this morning. Though with all the variables Windows XP introduced, I'm not surprised people have different memory experiences.

standalone vs. widget by ls+-la · 2005-12-12 14:56 · Score: 0, Redundant

Point of clarification: Can anyone tell me what's so great about widgets, and why they're superior to standalone or java applications?

Re:standalone vs. widget by DarkTempes · 2005-12-12 15:35 · Score: 4, Interesting

I believe the point of these widget development/runtime engines is to provide a method of developing/deploying simple easy-to-create applications. With a stressing on "easy to create".

Instead of having to write alot of C/C++ or Java code and worry about compatibility and lots of other issues, you can just (from my understanding) follow a method the engine outlines (in this case I believe primarily XML, maybe some javascript) and create a small very specific desktop application.
Re:standalone vs. widget by Jozer99 · 2005-12-12 15:58 · Score: 1

Actually, its mostly javascript, although it is really a mutant combonation of the two. XML is not really all that necissary. Basically, layout stuff is done in XML (ie images, texts, colors, ect...), whereas the actual funtion, which is written in javascript. However, if you want, you can get away with writing almost the entire widget in javascript, and generate windows and content through that (which is how many of the really complicated and felexable widgets work).

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 14:57 · Score: 0

>> Apple's desk accessories has finally found a home.

>>>> Konfabulator is a complete rip off of Apple's Dashboard...

Konfabulator does not predate Apple desk accessories.

Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by User+956 · 2005-12-12 14:57 · Score: 1, Interesting

Yahoo! has released a new version of Konfabulator, now rechristened 'Yahoo Widget Engine'.

This is the difference between Yahoo and Google. Yahoo is about marketing, Google is about substance. Case in point: Google buys Picasa, it stays "Picasa". Yahoo buys Konfabulator, and it becomes "Yahoo Widget Engine." Yahoo buys Oddpost, and it becomes "Yahoo Mail".

At a certain point, the obsessive-compulsive Yahoo branding effort becomes counterproductive. Google realizes this, and leaves the names be.

--
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.

Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by Jedi_Knyghte · 2005-12-12 15:03 · Score: 1

Google Earth?
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 15:09 · Score: 1, Informative

Google realizes this, and leaves the names be.

Yeah. Like when Google bought Keyhole and renamed it Google Earth.

FYI: You're a fanboy.
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by nycguy · 2005-12-12 15:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

Google's problem, though, is that they have a tendancy not to follow up on things, but rather leave them in indefinite beta or some other limbo. Take "Hello" (a photo-sharing and chat program which is part of the Picasa offering) for example. It's a fairly cool, though very specialized product. Shouldn't that be part of their new chat service? Yahoo has already built similar real-time photo-sharing into their Messenger product. While I'll admit that Yahoo overbrands, they at least try to have some consistency in their offering. When is Google going to start integrating some of their separate products into more useful platforms? Integration can weigh a product suite down, but right now there are some glaring opportunities: For example, why not integrate Google Groups (which has been in "beta" now for years) with GMail? What about integrating Picasa with Google Desktop (both of which offer search/organization functionality for photos)?
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by ScaryFroMan · 2005-12-12 15:29 · Score: 1

Major Exception: Keyhole-->Google Earth
Otherwise, your point is sound.

--
In Soviet Russia, backwards is everything.
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by generic-man · 2005-12-12 15:32 · Score: 4, Insightful

Keyhole became Google Earth.

Deja News (Deja.com) became Google Groups.

Urchin Log Analyzer became Google Analytics . (More on this change)

Sprinks became wholly subsumed into Google AdWords, not even as its own sub-brand.

There are nowhere near as many Googles as there are Yahoo!s, but Google's making a clear move toward matching Yahoo! as far as brands go.

--
For more information, click here.
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by ejp1082 · 2005-12-12 15:40 · Score: 2

As has been pointed out, Keyhole became Google Earth, Urchin became Google Analytics. Picasa probably just hasn't been renamed because Google's either working on doing something with it, or else hasn't figured out what they're doing with it of yet. I suspect sometime in the future there will be a re-branding and "launch" of some updated of "Google Picture Organizer".

On the flip side, Yahoo bought Flickr some time ago and hasn't re-branded it yet... there's just that "A Yahoo Company" logo in the corner.
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by generic-man · 2005-12-12 15:42 · Score: 1

Remember when Google bought Deja News? Hint: they didn't call it "Google Deja" or "Deja" for too long.

--
For more information, click here.
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by ryanov · 2005-12-12 15:45 · Score: 1

...umm, didn't they ALREADY integrate GMail with the groups?
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by bergeron76 · 2005-12-12 15:50 · Score: 1

Google does that intentionally. When a product is "beta", and invitation only, they don't have to worry about liability, or the affect on their stock price. The "forthcoming" product, can't be factored in to their balance sheets because it hasn't been released to the general population yet. It's a 21st century stock-market loophole.

--
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by aword · 2005-12-12 15:54 · Score: 1

What about urchin??
Wasn't it converted to Google Analytics??

Still, point taken..
Evilness: M$ > Yahoo! > Google
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 15:58 · Score: 0

Not to mention Dejanews (aka Google Groups) or Urchin Software (aka Google Analytics). Google would never do such a thing, ever.
Google Acquisitions
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by nycguy · 2005-12-12 16:10 · Score: 1

You're correct. They've added "Group Alerts" and RSS feeds since I first looked at Gmail. Nevertheless, their offering is still comprised of a number of half-finished, perpetual "beta" products. Also, in looking at their Google Earth product, I'd have to say that there's nothing quite as crass as clicking on a neighborhood DVD rental video store and getting a "sponsored link" to Netflix.
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by tommers · 2005-12-12 16:20 · Score: 1

I think all the products that Yahoo and Google have rebranded have been improvements on the names.

What would I expect to see looking through a Keyhole? Does a Konfabulator "konfab" me? Is DejaNews where I find news that seems vaguely familiar?

Flickr is a good descriptive name and I'm glad they stuck with it.

And even though Google hasn't rebranded Picasa, they've made a bunch of changes to brand it with Google UI (like the stars). I like that Google Earth and Picasa remind me of Google Maps and Google Maps.
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by X · 2005-12-12 16:41 · Score: 1

At a certain piont, the obsessive-compulsive Yahoo branding effort becomes counterproductive.

Yeah, it's terrible how they changed Flickr too.... Flickr. ;-)

Of course, that just shows how evil they are, hiding the fact that they are the ones behind Flickr now... ;-)

Fortunately, Google doesn't rebrand stuff like Google Groups, Google Earth, Google AdWords, Google AdSense, or Google Analytics.... ;-)

--
sigs are a waste of space
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 19:42 · Score: 1, Interesting

People have mentioned "Google Earth", but I think Yahoo only changes some names.

They have bought Flickr and Kelkoo, but they have kept the names
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by generic-man · 2005-12-13 02:08 · Score: 1

So if I have 100 employees working on a product, and that product is "beta," I can just write off their salaries without counting them as a liability? Cool! Mind showing me the SEC regulation that treats beta software differently from gamma/production software?

--
For more information, click here.
Re:Why can't Yahoo just let it be? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-14 09:04 · Score: 0

Thanks for the insighful comment. :-)

The name change doesn't mean a thing. The same people are working on the product and it's basically the same product that it was when it was called Konfabulator (plus lots of great new Widgets and APIs which are going to keep everyone happy).

While I wish Yahoo! could have used a more imaginative name (Yahoo! Gearbox, anyone?), if I may quote an old adage, a rose by any other name still smells as sweet. :-)

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by djrisk · 2005-12-12 14:57 · Score: 2, Informative

Not to mention, there was a piece of software way back in the Windows 95 days named "Dashboard" by HP/Borland/Starfish(?) that did similar things, as well. The idea is nothing new, as the parent mentions, but you know, we all need another way to find out what the weather is outside. :)

I love Dashboard, would I love Konfabulator? by Hamster+Lover · 2005-12-12 15:03 · Score: 1

I love Dashboard and use the Google Maps widget all the time. Of course, having a Dashboard layer to me defeats the purpose of the widgets, so I altered the Dashboard preferences to enable widgets on the desktop.

I have never used Konfabulator but from the looks of the things Dashboard looks like a Konfabulator ripoff. Are the widgets interchangeable?

Re:I love Dashboard, would I love Konfabulator? by Reaperducer · 2005-12-12 15:19 · Score: 1

I have never used Konfabulator but from the looks of the things Dashboard looks like a Konfabulator ripoff.

If you're going to paint it like someone ripped off someone else, then it's Konfab that ripped off Apple's Desktop Accessories, which were developed 21 years before Konfabulator.

--
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
Re:I love Dashboard, would I love Konfabulator? by DrRobert · 2005-12-13 01:58 · Score: 1

They are very similar implementations of the same idea.

Konfabulator - much better designed widgets in that the shape of the widget conveys information (the weather widget has a big cloud when raining, moon at night etc. However, it seems to be a VERY inefficient javascript engine as it seem to consume huge amounts of CPU to do very simple things. I also prefer the widgets to sit on the desktop and appear at the touch of a button.

Dashboard - so far much poorer widget design, the vast majority are just squares with some kind of pretty information in them, not nearly as useful. For instance a package tracker widget should be a box when it is mailed, a plane when its on the plane, etc. On the plus side it seems to be VERY efficient and I have never notice a significant draw on the CPU. A downside is that you a pretty much stuck with Steve Jobs version of where widgets should be and how they should be seen. Unless you hack a little the widgets onl;y sit on the Dashboard and as far as I can tell there is no way to make them seemlessly go back and forth between the dashboard and the desktop.
Re:I love Dashboard, would I love Konfabulator? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-13 02:42 · Score: 0

The widget types, compared:

Apple Desktop Accessories - These had to be programmed like any other Mac app, usually in Pascal or C.

Konfabulator Widgets - These are made with a combination of JavaScript (and the engine has specialized extensions and a lot of bugs) and XML, conforming to the Konfabulator DTD. If you can do AJAX, you can make Konfabulator widgets. Just remember that you have to use a URL object instead of the usual XmlHttpRequest.

Apple Dashboard Widgets - These are rendered with the same engine as Safari. They're just HTML+CSS+JavaScript and can use all the same XmlHttpRequest stuff that Safari can. They'll even have the same bugs (like the repeated-response-code-4 bug in XmlHttpRequest) as Safari has.

So, no, the widgets are not interchangeable. But Konfabulator didn't get "ripped off" by Dashboard, either. Desktop Accessories were around in Macintosh System 1 as a workaround for the one-app-at-a-time problem (Multifinder didn't show up until System 3). They were basically mini-apps that would load into a resident app's memory space. Oddly enough, Konfabulator and Dashboard are both multi-threaded, and only manage the threads of the widgets they display. There's no sharing of memory, which means they're more of a utilitarian descendent than a technical one.
Re:I love Dashboard, would I love Konfabulator? by saddino · 2005-12-13 04:05 · Score: 1

You can also use Amnesty Widget Browser if you want Dashboard widgets on your desktop selectable from the system menu bar, with opacity, window level adjustment, widget scaling and rotation etc. But it does cost $. Bonus: allows Panther 10.3.9 users to run many Dashboard widgets too.
Re:I love Dashboard, would I love Konfabulator? by grrrl · 2005-12-13 13:09 · Score: 1

Konfabulator - much better designed widgets in that the shape of the widget conveys information (the weather widget has a big cloud when raining, moon at night etc.

The Apple weather widget does exactly this (alt+command click on it to cycle through all the weather pictures). If only it was animated like in an early Tiger demo

Dashboard - so far much poorer widget design, the vast majority are just squares with some kind of pretty information in them,

surely this comes down to whoever designs the widget?

Unless you hack a little the widgets onl;y sit on the Dashboard and as far as I can tell there is no way to make them seemlessly go back and forth between the dashboard and the desktop.

Its a one-liner in the terminal to enable widgets on the desktop. To change between desktop/dashboard simply click and hold the widget while invoking the Dashboard

New! Now with Global Brand Awareness! by shaneh0 · 2005-12-12 15:06 · Score: 2, Informative

I installed it. Maybe I'm just missing it, but the last version of Konfabulator is basically 99.9% the same as this. The tag line for this release should be:

All New! Now with Global Brand Awarness!

It seems like they walked into the Yahoo Marketing department and said "OK, Release a new version of Konfabulator. No, you don't need programmers."

There *are* some new Yahoo widgets but that's not news. Widgets are created every day.

Yawn.

Re:New! Now with Global Brand Awareness! by rm69990 · 2005-12-12 16:29 · Score: 1

There were changes that make things easier for third party widget makers, something an end-user wouldn't see. At least that's what I've heard from other /.ers.
Re:New! Now with Global Brand Awareness! by Hellasboy · 2005-12-12 16:36 · Score: 1

Did you read the post that was posted 23 minutes before your post and modded up for 5, Informative?

Here's the changelog: http://widgets.yahoo.com/versionhistory/
and just in case...

Version 3.0
Widget Changes
Day Planner (formerly known as PIM Overview)

* Added the ability to access and edit your Yahoo! Calendar data.
* Addresses lingering daylight saving time issues in both Widget and Engine COM interface to Outlook.

Yahoo! Weather (formerly known as The Weather)

* Added new extended forcast link so you can get the forcast for more than five days out.
* Put adding a city directly into the context menu for easy access, and streamlined the interaction of a search.
* Reintroduced additional feed data into main context menu.

Yahoo! Stock Ticker (formerly known as Stock Ticker)

* Streamlined the interaction of adding a new symbol.

Picture Frame

* Added the ability to edit more of your picture's attributes directly from the Widget while in Flickr mode.
* Added support for new merged account mode when using Flickr.
* Added supposed for uploading images to Flickr directly from the Widget.
* Added Yahoo! Photos support which supports editing picture data and uplodaing as well.

New Widgets

* Yahoo! Search Widget allows you to search Yahoo!'s Web, Local, Images, Shopping, News and Video and see the results inside the Widget.
* Yahoo! Contacts Widget lets you search, view, add delete and edit contacts stored in your Yahoo! Address Book.
* Yahoo! Notepad Widget allows you to manage your notes in yur Yahoo! Notepad. It also lets you blog them to your Yahoo! 360 acount, as well as post a "blast" to your Yahoo! 360 account.
* Yahoo! Maps Widget lets you find any US location using Yahoo! Maps, and display that map inside the Widget. You can pan and zoom the map real-time.
* Yahoo! Mail Checker Widget puts a small badge on your desktop that will show you how many unseen messages are in your Yahoo! Mail inbox.

General Engine Changes
* We now allow functions to be passed into onFoo handlers. You can also specify them in the XML for a handler by specifying the "function" attribute. When a function attribute is specified, the contents of the onFoo handler are ignored.

object.onMouseUp = _myMouseUpFunction; // or in XML: // Later, in Javascript:
function _myMouseUpFunction()
{
print( this ); // will be the object you attached this function to.
} // If you're fancy, // you can set it to an anonymous function:
myObject.onMouseUp = function()
{
print( this );
}

* Added ability to specify colorize attribute like so: "r:128; g:55; b:255" Values must be in decimal from 0 to 255.

--

"Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
Re:New! Now with Global Brand Awareness! by Pollardito · 2005-12-13 00:14 · Score: 1

right, but other than all that it's just marketing right?

Pretty disgusting by wyldeone · 2005-12-12 15:07 · Score: 4, Informative

Don't know if this is standard procedure, but I was pretty annoyed when, while installing the new version, there were no less then three attempts to integrate yahoo into my computer. Can't these portals release software without trying to take over your computer?

--
In the beginning the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and is widely considered as a bad move.

Re:Pretty disgusting by techno-vampire · 2005-12-12 15:37 · Score: 1

Can't these portals release software without trying to take over your computer?
Certainly not! Resistance is futile. Your computer will be assimilated. You will learn to welcome your new Yahoo! overlords and trust the computer.

--
Good, inexpensive web hosting
Re:Pretty disgusting by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 15:49 · Score: 0

Or you could, you know, not install the crap in the first place, fucking retarded douchemonger... LOL XD
Re:Pretty disgusting by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 18:01 · Score: 0

Three?! And you lived to tell the tale?

And after clicking no, no, and a thrice time no, did you stagger off, shattered, to collapse in an awaiting comfy chair with a particularly soothing tea and sleeplessly await the coming dawn?

I look forward to the made-for-TV movie, coming soon to The Lifetime Network.
Re:Pretty disgusting by dr.badass · 2005-12-13 04:28 · Score: 1

Can't these portals release software without trying to take over your computer?

In a word: No.

It is completely impossible for them to do leave your computer alone. It just isn't in their blood. The entire "portal" concept requires them to be in your way as you try to do anything. At one time it was enough to be the first thing you see when you opened your browser (the "home page"), then they had to be everpresent on every page you went to (the "tool bar"), now they're moving to be there, right on your desktop, always.

--
Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by cheesygrapes · 2005-12-12 15:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

I can't seem to find where the post you're making fun of even mentions Apple Dashboard.

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 15:09 · Score: 0

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konfabulator -
>>>>>On Feburary 10, 2003, Arlo and Perry launched version 1.0 of Konfabulator.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Dashboard -
>>>>>It was introduced in Mac OS X version 10.4 and is unavailable for previous versions.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.4 -
>>>>>Mac OS X version 10.4 "Tiger" is the fifth and latest major release of Mac OS X for Apple's Macintosh computers, and released to the public on April 29, 2005.

Looks to me like Konfabulator pre-dates Dashboard by over 2 years.

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 15:10 · Score: 1, Informative

Apple's Desk Accessories (not Dashboard) came out in '84. I think that predates Konfabulator. A lot.

Linux by zx2c4 · 2005-12-12 15:11 · Score: 1, Interesting

What is the best linux alternative of Konfabulator? SuperKaramba is skimpy in my opinion. Are there any konfabulators for linux?

--
ZX2C4

So far, I still can't find a reason to use widgets by noisyfont · 2005-12-12 15:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

Widget could be useful... maybe. But before we they can even there, they need to integrate better with the rest of the "user experience". I am using Dashboard (I tried konfab for the kicks, but they seemed pretty much equivalent), and the widget don't behave like the rest of the OS. I can't copy past in all of them (can't copy from bloody dictionnary!), most of them don't have preferences I can adjust to fit my needs and they only the most limited fonctionnality for any operation (calculator app. is pretty dumb but it shines when compared to the widget conterpart).

I know these are free, simple coding projects, but come on! They have to behave like a proper app. for them to enhance my productivity. As far as I am concerned, widget are just a "proof of concept" for the moment. I am still waiting for a widget that does more tham show me where the sun is and isn't shinning (I am being overly harsh here, but you get my point).

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by Reaperducer · 2005-12-12 15:13 · Score: 1

And Apple's Desktop Accessories pre-date Konfabulator by 20 years.

--
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."

Nothing manages widgets better than by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 15:15 · Score: 0

http://www.desktopsidebar.com/> 2+ years running, my favorite freeware app.

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by Reaperducer · 2005-12-12 15:16 · Score: 4, Informative

In case you didn't get the hint, Konfabulator (now YWE apparently) predates Apple Dashboard. A lot.

I got your hint. The problem with your argument is that Apple's Desktop Accessories pre-date Konfabulator by 21 years.
If you're going to argue history, try to have your facts straight.

--
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."

Me likey! by paulius_g · 2005-12-12 15:18 · Score: 1

Seriously, I think that Yahoo is making a step further here.

I like the idea of information at your finger tips.

Can google top it off.

--
The hip way to get your IP. No ads, ever.

Re:Me likey! by LnxAddct · 2005-12-12 17:19 · Score: 1

I guess you've never used the google desktop search app with its nifty sidebar. *That* is information at your finger tips and layed out rather nicely.
Regards,
Steve

In other news: Yahoo aspires to be like OS X. by bergeron76 · 2005-12-12 15:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'll stick with the real deal.

Yahoo lost me back when they got cocky and started shoveling crap down my throat on their search page.

ICQ was also notorious for the same thing. They were just a little too ambitious for my tastes. I wanted a product, not a marketing blitz. Wow, they've even toned it down significantly. Now all the products are neatly categories within their product search engine.

Simplicity is a good. Forcefeeding is bad.

--
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.

One exception... by mk_is_here · 2005-12-12 15:23 · Score: 0

What named "Urchin" before now renames as "Google Analytics"...

Ohhh yeahhh..... Spyware heaven. by User+956 · 2005-12-12 15:25 · Score: 1

"Don't know if this is standard procedure, but I was pretty annoyed when, while installing the new version, there were no less then three attempts to integrate yahoo into my computer. Can't these portals release software without trying to take over your computer?"

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=171008&cid= 14243840

LOL. And you're calling me a fanboy?

--
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.

Re:Ohhh yeahhh..... Spyware heaven. by Cocteaustin · 2005-12-12 17:05 · Score: 0, Flamebait

You missed the part in step one of the installer where it let you pick whatever you want to install? You're not just a fanboy, you're rather thick as well!

Correction by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 15:35 · Score: 0

Link is not quite right. Desk Ornaments.

I tried it a year or so back... by kadathseeker · 2005-12-12 15:35 · Score: 4, Interesting

It was pretty cool for about two weeks, but once the appeal of the the cutesy gamey widgets wear out (or take up too much screen space), there are few that offer any real utility that isn't matched elsewhere more easily. A well-equipped Firefox can easily replace most of the widgets (ex. Forcastfox, Foxytunes, etc.). And really, who needs half a dozen portal widgets? Leave Firefox open and in two clicks you can select a different search function, then search away wherever (though certainly not torrentspy.com cough cough cough).

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The 'Net is a waste of time, and that's exactly what's right about it. - William Gibson

Re:I tried it a year or so back... by yakbarber · 2005-12-12 21:23 · Score: 1

Well, there is a thing in Konfabulator called "Konsposé" or what - basically "another desktop", where only your widgets live.
This means you can configure widgets to live only in Konsposé-space - no screen real estate used by them in normal view, then you hit F8 and now you see only your widgets. F8 again, and you are back to your desktop. Why is this good? Now, I've got at the moment a big digital clock, CPU/MEM usage gauges, a calendar, a todo list, a gmail inbox checker, a desktop wallpaper chooser and an animated hula-hula girl configured Konsposé-only. Far easier to use than a customized Firefox - at least for me. Have been happily using it now for months.
So, at least access easiness-wise, Konfabulator can be far better than some overconfig'ed Firefox (imho, certainly). And it's sort of nicey. And I've got a hula-hula girl. And no freakin' two clicks and alt-tabbing, just one hit on F8 (ok, two to switch back also).
Just my 2 cents.

Does this end the complaints from the developer? by tyrione · 2005-12-12 15:37 · Score: 1, Troll

Now that he got his payday does this mean we don't get to read about his "being wronged by Apple?" I hope so. The developer and his cohorts whining about being wronged and then being proven wrong by Apple prior art was getting real old.

Note: I'd use harsher language to describe his whining but it just goes to show that the squeaky wheel eventually gets the grease: thanks Yahoo! Hopefully we won't need to read another 50 articles on this crap.

Re:So far, I still can't find a reason to use widg by PokerAndroid · 2005-12-12 15:48 · Score: 2, Insightful

I am being overly harsh here, but you get my point

No, your not being overly harsh. I spent (wasted) 2 days playing with them and arrived at basically the same conclusion.

At first they seemed like an easy way to write a small app that could be distributed easy (no windows install etc) and they looked cool, but that was just laziness on my part. If I recall they didn't seem to have much in the way of capabilities or at least nothing I couldn't do with a browser, except clutter up my desktop w/ admittably cool looking large icons.

Why Upgrade? by Kickboy12 · 2005-12-12 15:49 · Score: 1

The current version of Konfabulator I use (not Yahoo) works perfectly. I gartunee any upgrade will cause my resource consumption to increase exponentially.

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google.slashdot

Re:Why Upgrade? by rm69990 · 2005-12-12 16:47 · Score: 1

I normally check in my Task Manager how much ram and cpu cycles all of the widgets are taking whenever I install a new one, and to be quite honest, the numbers seem lower now. Of course, I didn't write them down beforehand to compare, but I can guarantee you they haven't gone up like you think.
Re:Why Upgrade? by ramsj900 · 2005-12-12 17:17 · Score: 1

System resources consumption overload was the reason I stopped using widgets about 6 months ago. How useful is a widget that reports 8% CPU activity when 6% of that is the system usage widget itself? I am actually hoping that the new version of konfabulator employs a smaller footprint like the Google desktop search sidebar does. When will users with the minimum amount of RAM installed learn that fast, fun, fabulous are not part of the computing experience until they spend that $40 to get another stick of memory? (no-name PC2700 512k DDR 4 sure)

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Relax, aren't you lucky that it is only my Opinion?

Re:In other news: Yahoo aspires to be like OS X. by pturpin · 2005-12-12 15:55 · Score: 2, Informative

I guess I am not seeing why you think Yahoo is aspiring to be OS X.
I assume of course that you know Konfabulator was released before OS X dashboard.
Having using both i prefer Konfabulator, thought that is of course a matter of preference.

Konfabulator came first! by MsGeek · 2005-12-12 15:55 · Score: 2, Interesting

One can ask if Dashboard is a rip-off of Konfabulator and it would be a very good question. Apple swears up and down it was an independent creation...however...

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Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.

Re:Konfabulator came first! by npongratz · 2005-12-12 19:01 · Score: 4, Informative

One can ask if Dashboard is a rip-off of Konfabulator and it would be a very good question. Apple swears up and down it was an independent creation...however...

"However" what? You're right, "one could ask," and the answer would be that Apple did, in fact, create widget-type applets first and independently for consumer operating systems. The year was 1982, and they were called Desktop Ornaments (later renamed Desktop Accessories) for the new Macintosh OS. As much as I used to like it despite is enormous memory footprint, I don't think Konfabulator was a gleam in Arlo Rose's eye in 1982.
Re:Konfabulator came first! by FooAtWFU · 2005-12-13 04:27 · Score: 1

On a related note, the 3.0 release of this widget/Konfabulator has renamed the special 'overlay' window which shows all your widgets and also acts as a 'hidden layer' (which you activate with a user-configurable key, by default F8). This version calls it a "Heads-Up Display". The last version called it... Konsposé. With an é.
Hmm, now where have I heard a similar-sounding name before? I wonder......

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The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.

Re:In other news: Yahoo aspires to be like OS X. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 16:01 · Score: 0

I assume of course that you know Konfabulator was released before OS X dashboard.

Of course, Konfab was released a couple of decades after Desk Accessories but never mind. ;)

remember boys and girls! by Phil+Urich · 2005-12-12 16:02 · Score: 1

I can't seem to find where the post you're making fun of even mentions Apple Dashboard.

I see it just fine. Thing is, the post being replied to has been moderated "troll", and I assume then that that's why you don't see it.

Remember boys and girls, for the full slashdot experience, browse at -1!

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I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!

Correction by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 16:04 · Score: 2, Informative

And again, he probably meant to link to this one.

Yahoo aspires to be like OSX "?? by Moridineas · 2005-12-12 16:07 · Score: 2, Informative

Uh, I was tempted to mod you down, but you DO realize that Konfabulator precedes the OS X dashboard?? There was in fact a decently big spat over whether the dashboard was a mere copy of konfabulator or not (see e.g. wikipedia)

It has a new security feature by BigCheese · 2005-12-12 16:15 · Score: 2, Informative

I rather like the way it asks before running a new widget for the first time. That can help keep it from becoming another way that malware can run.

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The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow

Wrong with selling out by hackwrench · 2005-12-12 16:17 · Score: 1, Offtopic

Consulting my copy of the Encyclopedia of Fantasy yields the following: "pacts with the devil", "read the small print", and quibbles.

I was looking for the entry that effectively means "too high a price", but gave up

Re:In other news: Yahoo aspires to be like OS X. by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2005-12-12 16:19 · Score: 1

I agree with the others that responded to you, Konfabulator predates Dashboard, the only spin Apple added was to show and hide them with a keystroke. In fact, Konfabulator didn't try to hide apps that some users might want to see, though Amnesty takes third party widgets and allows them to be used on the standard desktop space, I don't understand specifically why Apple branded widgets didn't work.

That said, I don't think renaming it to "Widget Engine" does justice to its history, I don't think it makes sense for businesses to rename, relogo and rebrand things so often. Besides, Yahoo Konfabulator seems to be more interesting sounding, despite the name being vague.

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by sumanjay · 2005-12-12 16:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

I believe Konfabulator was actually inspired by NextStep's desktop widgets. NextStep's OS did go on to become OS X, so I guess it could quite easily be argues that Konfabulator is a complete rip off of OS X's Dashboard.

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Ah! Dessert... .Chilled Monkey-Brains!

Stupid name change and they broke support by wobedraggled · 2005-12-12 16:29 · Score: 3, Informative

No longer works in Windows XP X64 due to WinHTTP library. Way to go Yahoo!

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Ubuntu- Linux for human beings.

Re:Stupid name change and they broke support by ScottKin · 2005-12-12 20:40 · Score: 0

Works just fine for me. How about trying to uninstall then re-install it, hmmmm?

Take a look at http://users.adelphia.net/~scottkin/scottcam1.jpg

--ScottKin

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I don't give a rat's behind about "karma" here or anywhere else. Don't like what I have to say here? Deal with it!
Re:Stupid name change and they broke support by rale,+the · 2005-12-13 02:31 · Score: 1

I guess thats nice for you, but trying to install it for the first time, I'm greeted with the following broken installer message.

Considering I've written an app that uses winhttp on this computer, I'm going to have to lean towards blaming Yahoo!'s installer for the problem.
Re:Stupid name change and they broke support by ScottKin · 2005-12-14 03:58 · Score: 0

Hmmmm...You're saying that if I've already had it installed as Konfabulator, that running the new installer will cause it to fail?

Anyone else see what's wrong with this logic? The Installer script checks for a valid OS version, regardless of whether the application is installed or not. Yahoo's Installer works just fine, since I just used it.

I would start by making sure you haven't done any tweaking to your system before blaming Yahoo! and their staff.

--ScottKin

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I don't give a rat's behind about "karma" here or anywhere else. Don't like what I have to say here? Deal with it!

Re:In other news: Yahoo aspires to be like OS X. by rm69990 · 2005-12-12 16:41 · Score: 1

Yahoo lost me back when they got cocky and started shoveling crap down my throat on their search page.

http://search.yahoo.com/ This search page do you mean? What exactly are they trying to shove down your throat there? http://www.google.com/ Compare. The only added thing is some news.

Unless of course you are talking about Yahoo's main website, http://www.yahoo.com/ in which case I would say Yahoo! is not primarily a search engine company like Google, but an Internet Portal, so they are supposed to shove crap, such as email and messenger products, down your throat. For a long time they didn't even have their own search engine, but had a deal with Google to provide search results, and they focused entirely on their other products.

Unauthorized Google Image Widget by Slur · 2005-12-12 16:43 · Score: 4, Funny

My favorite Google-related widget is ImagesForever (Mac only because it uses perl and curl). Many others were made to access Google, but only this one actually does something more interesting than just provide a search box.

Disclaimer: I wrote ImagesForever, so I'm biased.

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-- thinkyhead software and media

Re:Unauthorized Google Image Widget by Decker-Mage · 2005-12-12 19:41 · Score: 1

(Mac only because it uses perl and curl)
Huh? Perl is the first language to go on all my systems here be they Windows or anything else and that dates back to the early '80's. As for curl, it's installed all over my Windows systems including within the Konfabulator directory structure. Just an observation.

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"[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
Re:Unauthorized Google Image Widget by Slur · 2005-12-13 01:35 · Score: 1

Wow, that's excellent. Well, please by all means feel free to make a Windows version of this widget! (It also uses grep so that might have some bearing too.)

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-- thinkyhead software and media
Re:Unauthorized Google Image Widget by Decker-Mage · 2005-12-13 22:28 · Score: 1

No problem on the grep either here. I'll think about it although my plate is always pretty full. One advantage, if I do the port, I can compile the perl.

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"[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go

Re:In other news: Yahoo aspires to be like OS X. by rm69990 · 2005-12-12 16:45 · Score: 1

To add onto my previous comment, MSN is the exact same. Compare MSN's home page http://www.msn.com/, with their search page http://search.msn.com/.

Now could someone please tell me how in the hell you make a proper link on Slashdot? Are you able to do the normal HTML way? (blahblah)

1984. by Xenex · 2005-12-12 16:49 · Score: 1

Desk Accessories, launched with the Mac in 1984.

Re:1984. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 18:07 · Score: 0

Not at all the same thing. Desk Accessories were just a MacOS-specific multitasking hack.

Or are you claiming that Apple invented the idea of a GUI calculator?

Re:So far, I still can't find a reason to use widg by MarkTina · 2005-12-12 17:02 · Score: 2, Informative

You might need to find a widget that's useful to you is all .. I use the word clocks all the time just because my family is scattered about the globe (got 6 in a row at the press of F12)and I need to know when is good/bad time to call them.
Also find the flight tracker useful (cause I travel), and the calcutor (cause my math sucks :-)

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by Cocteaustin · 2005-12-12 17:11 · Score: 1

And Desk (sic) Accessories have about as much do with widgets as bananas do with roast bison, but thank you for playing, Macintosh fanboy.

Re:So far, I still can't find a reason to use widg by noisyfont · 2005-12-12 17:19 · Score: 1

I agree with you that some widgets are useful. I personaly use the currency converter once in a while and I like it. My grub is that overall the fonctionality of the widgets are too limited and they not consistent with the rest of the gui. When they correct the later, then I will feel that dashboard is an extension of the rest of my desktop (you know, like saving my results so I can reuse them or feed them to another app). As for usefulness, well having dashboard for one widget seems wasteful to me... I am glad you could find three that you like.

There is a universal widget language by nog_lorp · 2005-12-12 18:05 · Score: 1

Try using Java SWING, its arguably the most universal widget "language" ;)

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2005-12-12 18:11 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Any good exploits yet? by Animats · 2005-12-12 18:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

New big piece of closed-source code! Executes wide range of commands from web pages! Good potential for yummy exploits! Anybody find one yet? Can you write a worm in it?

I like the place in the documentation where it says that they're going to add more sandboxing "later". Before, or after, the first big exploit?

resources by mincognito · 2005-12-12 18:54 · Score: 1

The reason I uninstalled Konfabulator was because of the HUGE amount of memory widgets required (5-20 MB per widget) plus unreasonable processor demands. The new Yahoo version doesn't fix this.

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Ludwig Wittgenstein

Re:resources by Englabenny · 2005-12-13 00:09 · Score: 1

I'm installing this. That sounds so great, much better than Dashboard (that I disabled)
Re:resources by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-13 06:27 · Score: 0

Thanks.... I was wondering if they fixed that. :(

Careful when upgrading... by kazbek · 2005-12-12 20:15 · Score: 1

...because it erases the saved preferences on your widgets. They also replaced the word "Konfabulator" with "Yahoo!" across the entire application. I for one, welcome our new widgets overlords!.

Remember this? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 20:40 · Score: 0

Widget, it's got a widget, a lovely widget. A widget it has got. All in favour of widgets, but I don't haev the stomach for bitter anymore.

It's a Sony! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 21:06 · Score: 0

SCNR

Silly name by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 21:14 · Score: 1, Funny

Konfabulator was at least an original name.
Wouldn't Yahoo! get in trouble with a product named YahWE?

Google Inc also offers widgets?! by Anonymous+Freak · 2005-12-12 21:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

Now, while Google Dashboard plugins can be called 'widgets', what was the point of including that sentence at the end? Yes, I see it was a quote from the original article, and it's just as oddly placed there, but it is even more odd here.

"Microsoft releases Windows Vista. Microsoft rival Apple also offers an OS."

"Honda releases new Civic Hybrid. Honda rival Toyota also offers a hybrid."

"Devil offers Eve an Apple. Devil rival God also offers knowledge."

I mean, really. Did the reporter just HAVE to find a way to include Google in this story? Maybe a bit of commentary "Yahoo rival Google offers Widgets through their more extensible Google Dashboard" or something, but just 'Google too!' is a bit odd.

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Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.

Re:Google Inc also offers widgets?! by One+Childish+N00b · 2005-12-12 23:35 · Score: 1

It's probably to stop the 40,000 anti-Google trolls screaming "in your FACE! Google! Yahoo has feature X and feature Y!", to save us sensible (though not neccessarily Google-loving) people from having to reply to each one pointing out that, in fact, Google does this too. And those with mod points from having to mod them both down to -1, Troll or -1, Offtopic.

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Dealing with lawyers would be a lot less tedious if they all looked like Casey Novak.
Re:Google Inc also offers widgets?! by gotem · 2005-12-13 02:42 · Score: 1

you are right, that sounds like a Konfabulation!

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 21:45 · Score: 0

Not on Mac OS X, you know.

Gdesklets by Englabenny · 2005-12-13 00:04 · Score: 1

For gnome at least: http://gdesklets.gnomedesktop.org/

Not just pro yahoo... but anti google by wstrucke · 2005-12-13 00:46 · Score: 1

Did anyone else notice that when upgrading to the new version it not only adds the yahoo widgets, but deletes the google search widget (Where Is It.widget) on the first run of the program?

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-13 02:11 · Score: 0

Oh quit being a smart ass. Jeezzz...

Re:Calendar... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-13 02:44 · Score: 0

That's because the marketdroids insisted that the calendar show birthdays of everyone of Yahoo's members, requiring an arena-sized display.

Neat! by JPriest · 2005-12-13 03:04 · Score: 1

It is cool because you can add them to live.com rather than download them. Some of them are actually kind of neat but it the ability to add gadgets to live.com seems to be impared as it seems partly /.ed.

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Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.

Re:Incompetence Rewarded by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-13 04:08 · Score: 0

Desktop Accessories weren't written in JavaScript. Kaleidoscope was first to encourage third-party developers to build little skinned web-based apps that can be accessed by a hot key, and Apple blatantly ripped them off, no matter what Apple apologists claim.

Kapsules by Dude+McDude · 2005-12-13 05:24 · Score: 1

Just as good!

Free!

No shitty Yahoo! branding!

http://www.kwidgets.com/ !

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2005-12-13 05:35 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Why Re:resources by redwoodtree · 2005-12-13 07:27 · Score: 1

why is it better than dashboard? Can you enumerate the reasons?

Re:Why Re:resources by Englabenny · 2005-12-14 04:06 · Score: 1

I was basically joking, because I think Dashboard is some bloated crap. With dashboard enabled, the OS gets more and more sluggish as you use it, and this forces you to do restarts just to clean out memory.. doesn't sound like the OS X 10.1 I used and liked. So I think that dashboard uses to much memory and the control of the widget cpu time is not good enough; if you don't study each widget separately, you miss that 50% of those you use use cpu all the time, and have to be disabled.

Re:Tookie Nigga Gonna Die ! by chawly · 2005-12-13 20:08 · Score: 1

Yes, he died - but aren't you a bit off-topic ?

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How many beans make five, anyhow ? ... Charles Walmsley

Only me ? by chawly · 2005-12-13 20:39 · Score: 1

Am I the only one who thought "midgets" instead of "widgets" ? I swear I read the article and was half-way down the first page of comments before I realised my mistake.

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How many beans make five, anyhow ? ... Charles Walmsley

216 comments