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BBC Presents An Open News Archive

Posted by Zonk on from the news-remixed dept.

Cus writes "The BBC have opened a section of their news archive under a Creative Archive license. Nearly 80 items covering the last 50 years are available, with the full list available on their site. Paul Gerhardt the project director of the Creative Archive License Group, from the official announcement: 'The BBC's telling of those stories is part of our heritage, and now that the UK public have the chance to share and keep them we're keen to know how they will be used.'"

129 comments

  1. 1966 by aedan · · Score: 0

    The first thing on the list is the 1966 World cup because 1966 sorts first. And they wonder why Scots get fed up with it!

    aedan

    1. Re:1966 by lower · · Score: 1

      No wonder they're fed up with it considering their record!

    2. Re:1966 by aedan · · Score: 1

      Could be worse... this is the team I usually go to see http://www.ptfc.net/. aedan

  2. What about the rest of us by JonN · · Score: 4, Interesting
    "and now that the UK public have the chance to share and keep them"

    And the rest of us don't?

    However on to more important ideas, I believe this is another great step forward in opening knowledge to everyone, such as when Princeton's collection of more than 10,000 works will be categorized, posted for world to study. These are pieces of work and acadamia that everyone should have access to, as it expands minds and ideas, and pushes us forward, intellectually.

    --
    do.what.promptcmds
    1. Re:What about the rest of us by jmcmunn · · Score: 2, Informative

      FTFA...sounds like we all need to find a proxy in the UK. :-) Really though, I suppose that breaks all kinds of "international laws".

      The archive content released here under the Creative Archive Licence will use limited DRM (Digital Rights Management), but not at the cost of user creativity. For instance, to help us identify our source material we will be using a patented Video Watermarking technology where a virtual barcode will be embedded into the video clips. This invisible stamp can be read through video editing and format changes so that any video sequence can be traced back to its source. This will not interfere with legitimate users, but it will assist the BBC if there is an attempt to commercially exploit our material.

      The BBC is using a technology called GEO-IP filtering to ensure that archive content sourced directly from these BBC sites will only be available to UK citizens

    2. Re:What about the rest of us by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 2, Interesting
      UK The Creative Archive content is made available to internet users for use within the UK.

      Looks that way doesn't it? Given the BBC has a definite worldwide presence, would it not make sense for them to open it up to other countries as well? It's a bizarre choice, just like they used DRM on the iMP service to lock it into the UK. I can see they don't want to waste bandwidth on non licence paying countries, but either stop broadcasting BBC World and pull out of the world altogether or just do the sensible thing and let other countries share the archive.

      --
      ~HTP~ Hug that tux ;)
    3. Re:What about the rest of us by gowen · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Given the BBC has a definite worldwide presence, would it not make sense for them to open it up to other countries as well? It's a bizarre choice
      I imagine that, at least partially, it's a rights issue. For example, the BBC have the rights to the 1966 World Cup for broadcast within the UK, but not worldwide.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    4. Re:What about the rest of us by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given the BBC has a definite worldwide presence, would it not make sense for them to open it up to other countries as well?

      The rest of the world don't pay a TV license that funds the BBC. The UK public do.

      If I remember correctly, they are forced to do it this way because of the way that their charter is written. It's really not that bizarre when you think about it - the BBC acts in the UK public's interests - by selling their content to foreign countries instead of giving it away, they are reducing the cost of the license fee for the UK public.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    5. Re:What about the rest of us by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I disagree. They could allow the public in other countries access and demand certain uses be licenced, that would be a much fairer system. In any case, how many people are going to go find a UK proxy after reading this article?

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    6. Re:What about the rest of us by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      Under a good few laws, they'd be fine rebroadcasting since rebroadcasting does not entail such restrictions (and in fact the usage of DRM on rebroadcasts is illegal, but more on that once i've sent in my complaint to OFCOM.

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      ~HTP~ Hug that tux ;)
    7. Re:What about the rest of us by bfree · · Score: 1

      So let me pay for a UK tv license to get equal/equivalent access. Trebly so when they decide to let you watch/download directly. Even if it excluded all non-BBC produced content that would be fine with me. Do they not want lots of virtually free money as I can imagine they could sell millions of extra tv licenses in such a way?

      --

      Never underestimate the dark side of the Source

    8. Re:What about the rest of us by Angostura · · Score: 4, Informative

      I imagine also that this is also, at least partly, a political/public-opinion issue.

      The BBC is fairly regularly attacked in the UK for spending so much on a Web presence that is heavily used by an international audience but which is paid for by a tax on TVs. It would get a right old kicking from the UK press and in particular the Murdoch press if it made content that "we have paid for" freely available overseas. For those who don't realise - the BBC's World Service is paid for directly by the foreign and commonwealth office, not from the TV licence fee.

      The License fee is supposed to be spent entirely on the provision of services to the UK population. The BBC is watching its back here.

    9. Re:What about the rest of us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A negligible amount? Only those seriously interested in the archive, enough to endure the hassle if not the cost, would bother, and I'd wager that those who would be most interest on the news as reported by the BBC (and all the biases associated with that) would be the UK public.

    10. Re:What about the rest of us by swab79 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The problem is that there are many people in the UK who would love to end the TV license system of funding the BBC. Giving away content to non-paying foreigners would only give those people more ammunition.

    11. Re:What about the rest of us by gowen · · Score: 1

      That's a very good point; or, rather, it's several very good points.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    12. Re:What about the rest of us by elyobelyob · · Score: 2, Funny

      Look, I'll have a word with Auntie for our American cousins if they all promise to watch the 1966 World Cup video, say "Ruddy good show old boys" and sing the National Anthem proudly (knowing every word .. including the sixth verse).

      They then have to sit through the Queen's speech every Christmas Day, just after they've eaten a huge meal, cannot move and cannot find the remote.

    13. Re:What about the rest of us by LordSnooty · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And the rest of us don't?

      Pffft. Please send £126.50 to the BBC, Wood Lane, London and we might let you have access for a year.

    14. Re:What about the rest of us by LordSnooty · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's a very, very good point. Also note that stations like BBC World, America, Prime etc etc are all advertiser-funded, not paid for by the licence fee.

    15. Re:What about the rest of us by Sarisar · · Score: 1

      But I'm FROM the UK, just in the US at the moment... why can't I check? If you go with the 'you don't have a TV license' argument, not everyone in the UK has one (last time I heard a few years back there are about 20 million licenses for around 60 million people, but of course most of that will live together. I did hear there were around 22 million addresses in the UK (including businesses) so it's probably pretty much saturation point anyway.

      On an unrelated note does anyone have a proxy server or do I have to hassle my parents to set up privoxy on their machine so I can connect through (and no YOU can't!)

    16. Re:What about the rest of us by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      Would it really? I disagree. The BBC provides the content at the convenience of your TV, it's not even close to that with the iMP, that's downloading the individual programs, putting them in a playlist and watching them. Which is easier? How many more people would rather watch it in front of a TV?

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      ~HTP~ Hug that tux ;)
    17. Re:What about the rest of us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So let me pay for a UK tv license to get equal/equivalent access.

      If you had RTFA, you would know that they plan to do so, but are not in the current pilot program.

    18. Re:What about the rest of us by bfree · · Score: 1

      Which FA are you reading oh Anonymous One? I have never found any mention of such a plan and guess you are refering to "The BBC said it will be releasing further material across other areas over the coming months." I suspect the areas in that sentence refers to things like Documentaries and maybe even Comédy, not geography.

      --

      Never underestimate the dark side of the Source

    19. Re:What about the rest of us by ishepherd · · Score: 1

      ...also, it's never shy about launching commercial ventures, and using that money to cross-subsidise the UK services.

      So here's hoping that once this really gets going, they will launch a subscription offer targetted at non-Brits.

      --
      fud, notfud, yes, no, maybe
    20. Re:What about the rest of us by Julia+Cameron · · Score: 1
      And the rest of us don't?

      Pffft. Please send £126.50 to the BBC, Wood Lane, London and we might let you have access for a year.

      Marooned by circumstance in the US, I wish I could! I wish... Oh, please...

      ... and a source for Irn Bru.

      --
      Julia Cameron
      Oich ù agus hiùraibh éile
    21. Re:What about the rest of us by BenBenBen · · Score: 1
      For those who don't realise - the BBC's World Service is paid for directly by the foreign and commonwealth office, not from the TV licence fee.
      Heh, and who pays for the FCO? Peter or Paul?
      --
      The Slashdot Paradox: "100% Overrated"
    22. Re:What about the rest of us by eagles-wings · · Score: 1

      That would probably be becasue it's most likely paid for by the licence fee.

    23. Re:What about the rest of us by Zusstin · · Score: 0

      I pay to watch BBC at home. Surely, BBC is/has made some money from me as well (outside UK). The feedback questions - when the BBC website detectes non-UK IP - suggest that they might start charging for this. I believe one can pay and download it (normal archives) even today as well.

      Whats really the point in stopping non-UK IPs?

    24. Re:What about the rest of us by camperslo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is that there are many people in the UK who would love to end the TV license system of funding the BBC

      After seeing what's happened to tv in the U.S., I hope for your sake it doesn't happen. At least not if it means running advertising. With the exception of public television, news coverage and programming here have been getting worse and worse.

      Advertising is pushing many things that are not in the public interest, and the media news barely covers the negative impacts of those companies/products. There are no longer any limits on how much advertising stations can air. Some of the smaller stations where I am run infomercials more than half of the time. Many half-hour long infomercials are aired, many of them are promoting scammers. Many drug companies run ads at a time when we're spending more money than ever on drugs and it is driving health insurance costs to where many individuals and even businesses cannot afford them. There is heavy advertising for products made in China even though there is a huge trade deficit. Between the operation and purchasing power of Wal-Mart, a huge distributor of mostly Chinese products, many retail and manufacturing businesses have closed costing many jobs.
      TV ads promote many very unhealthy and relatively expensive foods at a time when many Americans are grossly overweight and still more suffer from eating unhealthy processed junk. Even children are developing diabetes from bad eating habits.
      Political corruption is a serious problem. Much of the bad legislation that it passed gets little public outcry because the media don't put enough importance on it. Much of the corruption of politicians starts when they have to resort to funding from the wrong sources to wage competitive (usually nasty and misleading) political ads. Of course its the media getting all that money. If the media didn't run paid political ads things wouldn't be as bad. The media is all about consumption. Frequent ads promote credit cards with incredibly nasty contracts, at a time when the average family has close to $10,000 in credit card debt. While there is some coverage of global warming and environmental issues, they fail to take politicians to task for bad legislation, and continue promoting things that are bad for the environment. Broadcast ownership has been largely taken over by huge corporations. The old limit of 7 AM, 7 FM, and 7 TV stations by one owner is gone. Clear Channel owns over 1000 tv and radio stations. This leads to more political corruption, less diverse news, and far less diverse exposure of music nationally. It is pretty much all or nothing exposure for musicians now.

      The media mentions computer malware but never points to alternate operating systems for relief.

      Many TV programs are now so-called reality shows. Many are produced at low cost using members of the public. Basically anything cheap to produce that gets a large audience is aired. An early episode of Fear Factor, had contestants eating animal penises in their competition for the prize.
      The media tend to all focus on some "big" story, while ignoring far more important things.
      For instance when they were all preoccupied with coverage of the jury selection for Michael Jackson here, the BBC had coverage of about 60% of the Iraqi oil money that was overseen by the US to be used for reconstruction being unaccounted for. (If the BBC hadn't had this on the web, I would have never known. I haven't been able to find that story again though. Hmmmm)
      Most tv in the U.S. is very bad, at least we still have PBS (public television). It includes some programming from the BBC also. US radio is even worse than tv. The audio is overprocessed, most of the programming comes from satellite sources and computer automation (which inserts local-sounding announcers). Half of the time if there's a major power outage, fire or other problem in the medium sized community I'm in, none of the stations will be talking about it while it is happening. Small-market news operation

    25. Re:What about the rest of us by Willuknight · · Score: 1

      finally a post deserving and in need of mod points, and i have none. Thankyou for a wonderful post that mirrors my frustration with the mass produced crap on television. please mod parent up! *me saves this post

      --
      Do not anger the Karma Whores, for they don't bathe often, and might decide to come visit you in person. -Ryan Amos
    26. Re:What about the rest of us by Edzor · · Score: 1

      or move to the Republic of Ireland and tune in for free!

      the free loading mongrels!

    27. Re:What about the rest of us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is not true.

      The British government pays for the use of the BBC website for the rest of the world (ie us the tax payer). This was in an article which was linked from Slashdot some time back. What arrangements there are for television shows I'm not sure.

    28. Re:What about the rest of us by Snaller · · Score: 1

      "In any case, how many people are going to go find a UK proxy after reading this article?"

      After looking at the clip titles: 0

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    29. Re:What about the rest of us by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      that would be a much fairer system.

      Fairer in what sense? It's the UK public funding it, if the BBC started freely licensing it to other countries, the cost to the UK public would go up, as it's partly funded by commercial licensing in other countries at the moment. How is the UK public subsidising media for other countries fairer?

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  3. Nice... by jmcmunn · · Score: 3, Insightful


    The BBC certainly has the right idea with the sharing of information and history. Here in the US we seem to be much more wrapped up in who owns the rights to something and how to make money from it. The BBC on the other hand seems to be putting as much as possible into the hands of the public, making it easier for people to get to the information we all deserve to be able to see. According to what I read on the site, all they ask is that you not commercialize it, and give credit for where it came from. Seems fair to me! Nice job BBC.

    1. Re:Nice... by g2devi · · Score: 1

      > The BBC certainly has the right idea with the sharing of information and history.
      > Here in the US we seem to be much more wrapped up in who owns the rights to something
      > and how to make money from it.

      The end result of this is simple. 200 years from now, because of wide spread copying the BBC's version of history will still be around and because of licensing restrictions the US's version of history will not be.

      As Orwell once said, "He who controls the past, controls the future.". In essense, by going for short term profit the US is letting the UK define it's future policy. Pretty short sighted if you ask me.

  4. The BBC and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    So much for the BBC committment to open standards... has anyone seen and tried the BBCs much vaunted trial for on demand content?

    Microsoft Windows DRM infected crap that expires after seven days, combined with a BitTorrent client. It's almost like they threw some money at a Visual Basic firm and who scripted a BT ActiveX control (written by someone else natch) and Microsoft's Media Player.

    The result is a totally closed system that demands you pay Microsoft for the right to watch programmes that you've already paid for with the license fee. What a sack of crap...

    1. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I did launch a complaint against this a while ago as a concerned licencepayer, and i will be following it up with complaints to OFCOM and going to town with the press as well. Under the Freedom of Information act, the BBC is required to answer any questions I may have relevant to the spending of money, schedule selection etc. and so it will be interesting to see just how much has been spent on this tacky DRM system, why they feel the need to lock it into the UK, how they feel they can justify breaking numerous laws regarding rebroadcast (i've researched that quite heavily) and how this fits into their so called `platform neutrality policy`

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    2. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by RonnyJ · · Score: 2, Informative
      From the iMP FAQ:

      Expired programmes are automatically deleted from your hard drive after the 8-day window. Programmes expire due to rights agreements

      You can complain about it, but the fact remains that the BBC are currently legally unable to offer many of their programmes in non-DRM formats. In the meantime, however, I'm sure that hundreds of thousands of UK broadband users will be satisfied with what the iMP offers them.

    3. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by sugarmotor · · Score: 1

      Please post the results of your quest to slashdot. Or send me an email. :)

      Stephan

      --
      http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
    4. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      The windows using ones who don't travel much...

      Then there's me who uses linux and travels a lot. And has a moral objection to DRM too. Well i'm being raped on all 3 fronts...

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    5. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by RonnyJ · · Score: 1
      Well i'm being raped on all 3 fronts...

      So, the BBC can't legally provide a service that is suitable for a minority of UK TV license fee payers, I recognise this. However, would you really suggest that they shouldn't provide a service suitable for millions of other license fee payers because of this?

    6. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      Ergh, I set up a subdomain a while ago, i'll keep everyone updated from there. http://drm.wefixtech.co.uk/

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    7. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by rufty_tufty · · Score: 1

      You could so what I do and have a spare desktop at home running windows.
      Yes it sucks, but I think it also sucks that I _have_ to drive a car to visit my parents. Yes it is possible to use public transport, but it takes twice as long.

      So I try to use public transport/Linux where possible and the car/windows where other people's choices don't leave me another viable choice.

      Life's full of these ideals vs functionality trade-offs; i try not to bitch about them too much anymore and live with them.

      But you're not the only one writing to the BBC over their windows locked DRM either!

      --
      "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
    8. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by LordSnooty · · Score: 2, Informative

      why they feel the need to lock it into the UK,

      I can answer that one for you now - right for programmes on iMP will have already been agreed, and they will cover broadcast in the UK only. It would be even more expensive to secure rights for worldwide broadcast, and it would no doubt slash the number of shows they could offer for download. As the charter notes, they already have an obligation to deliver the content to licence-fee payers. This project merely extends the obligation to p2p. Still, you raise some valid points, be interesting to hear the response.

    9. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by Freexe · · Score: 1

      Doesn't the BBC directive require them to broadcast as many of their shows and share as much information with as many people in the UK as possible.

      If they can't show the shows because a contracted company will not allow them to unless they use DRM and restrict viewing to the UK, then i would say they were doing their job correctly in building a system to allow the MAJORITY of the UK audience to view the information. There is nothing to stop you going to your local library when in the UK and watch the programs there.

      Plus I'm sure given time and after demonstrating the success of there windows version, they will beable to make a Mac and a Linux version of there program too.

      --
      "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
    10. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      They can do it legally because they're putting the DRM on illegally. The BBC is becoming another corporation where breaking the law is justifiable and legal fees are just part of the budget. The BBC also has a policy of platform neutrality you may wish to take a look at.

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    11. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      I pay my licence, I expect my service. When I go to buy a steak pie, do i get home and read the packet and find it says it's incompatible with electric ovens and only gas will do? It's not the BBC's place to provide lock-in to a platform, especially with their published platform neutrality policy. And DRM is worth bitching about, it's a big deal. And it will come off. I still intend to contact OFCOM about it who will do something about it. And if nothing changes, i'll quit paying my licence fee because frankly i never watch TV anyway.

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    12. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      The BBC's directive comes second to the letter of the law, need I remind you, and if the law says the rebroadcast can't be DRMed, then the rebroadcast can't be DRMed. The BBCs directive also says nothing about people living in other countries should be stopped from accessing our content and frankly i'd rather they didn't spend money on DRM to try and lock these people out creating more costs. And since you're unfamiliar with the way linux works, i'll put it simply. Linux as a platform is not something you can hide things in, it's completely open and anything they try will be easily crackable. On top of that, modifying the (FLOSS) kernel to dump video to file would not be a particularly difficult task and this would bypass the DRM

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    13. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by LordSnooty · · Score: 1

      I wonder then if the reason they went for WMP is because a) they had to have something DRM-like otherwise nothing gets shared, and b) there's no DRM equivalent in the non-windows world. I think you'll be told that they went for the WMP solution because this is merely a pilot, testing out the technology. Who knows what tricks they'll have ready if/when the system goes live. Not much in the Linux world, I expect. Sad but true. Me, I got my own BT client. You can get the stuff, just not directly from the BBC.

    14. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      What gets me is that anyone determined can crack it fairly easily, there are over 30 programs that remove the WMV DRM. And if you want a program it's undoubtably on a p2p network anyway

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    15. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by Freexe · · Score: 1

      I know it will always be possible to circumvent DRM, but wouldn;t it be possible to make it so you have to go out of your way to circumvent it?

      Plus their directive is to make it availible to as many UK citizens as possible, and isn't paying money (in server and bandwidth costs) more expensive then a short term cost of setting up and running a IP blocker. It also makes it clear that you can download content and watch it anywhere you want.

      --
      "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
    16. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      Maintenance costs. Not just for the IP blocker, for the DRM

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    17. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by Freexe · · Score: 1

      Surely the IP blocker and DRM are different issues?

      I'm as against DRM as the next person, if not more so as I have taken steps to boycot companies/music labels that abuse it (I've not downloaded or bought any CDs that use or promote DRM). But the BBC seems to have taken resonable steps to allow fair use at a better level than most over companies.

      I think it's important to remember that they have already provided to content via a broadcast over that airwaves that you are free to record and reuse, and this is an extra service to allow even more freedom.

      I really don't know enough to be to comment on the DRM legal issue, but I presume that laws can be changed if required.

      --
      "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
    18. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by LordSnooty · · Score: 1

      Because of your repeated claims about "platform neutrality", I had to search the BBC to find what you were talking about. All I could find that mentioned the phrase was this, talking about interactive TV, not broadcast, and in any case it merely says the word "encourage" - not "require".

      I also had a quick peek via Google, found this - a report by the BBC's R&D unit from five years ago, which does refer to broadcast TV, but still only says "the BBC aims to...". I'm sure that if Linux offered a DRM solution, they would have offered it. Even the free-wheeling P2Per like me knows that DRMed content is better than no content at all, certainly at this early stage in the project.

    19. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by BenBenBen · · Score: 1

      And who owns the rights to the BBC-sourced BBC-made BBC archives? *Hmmm*

      --
      The Slashdot Paradox: "100% Overrated"
    20. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by LordSnooty · · Score: 1

      Not the BBC necessarily, if that's what you're implying. Rights in most cases will still reside with the actors, performers & writers. When the BBC initially commissions a show, deals will be struck with the creatives to secure rights to broadcast. If those rights expire, which they do after some period of time, they must be re-negotiated.

    21. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Please show me which law they are breaking. Because they arent. Thus it isnt illegal.

    22. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      you'd encourage changing the laws? There's a reason the rebroadcast laws were set up like that in the first place, nothing's exclusive once it's been shown exclusively once. This says that therefore anyone can have a copy of it to watch etc. The laws were set up to give the consumer at least some rights over what is quickly becoming a rape-the-consumer industry. I too boycott DRMed services and music because i'm not going to buy into my own slavery.

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    23. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      Copyright, Designs and Patents Act of 1988 and later amendments. Section 70. Want to go look that up? You'll notice it contradicts the right to record-to-timeshift. The BBC will be aware of this since i sent off my FOI request last night, they've claimed i'll get an answer within 20 days.

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    24. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      All that section says is that a private recording of a televised broadcast for the purposes of viewing it later doesnt infringe copyright.

      Nowhere does it require the copright owner or broadcaster to explicitly allow timeshifting. Absolutely nowhere. And you cant even intereprete that section as a requirement to allow.

      THe BBC is under no obligations to allow you to do it, but if you can and do do it then you arent infringing.

    25. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      There is a right derived from that section that gives you the right to record for timeshifting purposes and DRM infringes upon that right. Let me see if i can find the derived rights statement for you to peruse.

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    26. Re:The BBC and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually you'll notice that this has changed recently. Look at HIGNFY it's changed from

      © BBC MMV
      to
      © Hat Track MMV
      as indies now retain the copyright of their programmes not the commissioner.

  5. Early days ? by bushboy · · Score: 0

    As a bit of a dabbler with video, I've been through the videos on offer and right now, am hard pressed to find an exact need for them in my projects/ideas right now.

    They are certainly interesting on their own and some could be used in specific projects, however, as it stands, they are really little more than a "teaser"

    I hope this project gains momentum to realise a stock video archive of thousands of clips.

    A video version of stock.xchng would be an incredible resource.

    --
    A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
  6. Wikimedia by karvind · · Score: 1
    Can this be added to wikimedia ? I am wondering if Creative Archive license puts some restrictions here. (Last point of license: The Creative Archive content is made available to internet users for use within the UK.)

    Are there potentials of abuse as well ?

    1. Re:Wikimedia by gowen · · Score: 2, Informative
      Can this be added to wikimedia ? ... Last point of license: The Creative Archive content is made available to internet users for use within the UK.
      So ... that would be "No", then. And you were so nearly there...
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    2. Re:Wikimedia by arron_donaldson · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Can this be added to wikimedia ?

      No. It's not really an open license at all. For one thing it forbids commercial use. And it's limited to the UK! In my eyes this constitutes an abuse of the word "open".

    3. Re:Wikimedia by gowen · · Score: 0, Troll
      In my eyes this constitutes an abuse of the word "open".
      Quick! Roll back the process. A blogger thinks you're abusing the English language. Woe! Tumult! etc.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    4. Re:Wikimedia by omeg · · Score: 1

      Wikimedia wouldn't even be a suitable choice. The Internet Archive would be, however.

  7. Beta test is for UK only by Vainglorious+Coward · · Score: 4, Informative
    "and now that the UK public have the chance to share and keep them"
    And the rest of us don't?

    The archive is only available to IP addresses originating from the UK.

    --
    My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
    1. Re:Beta test is for UK only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not open to anybody at the moment. It collects your email
      (funny how *that* part works) and then says they've got a
      technical problem and you can't download.

    2. Re:Beta test is for UK only by M1FCJ · · Score: 1

      I wonder if this means that I go and visit the web page I will have to cough up the licensing fee... I avoid BBC News videos on the BBC web site just to be able to claim that I haven't accessed their TV content.

    3. Re:Beta test is for UK only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      List of open proxy servers in the UK anyone?

  8. YES! by Caspian · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now that the annals of history have been released as open source, I can edit the past to suit my whims!

    I'm hereby releasing GNU/History, a fork of the past 50 years in which every computer runs Linux and Bill Gates is RMS's plumber. At long last! Now to set up a Wiki...

    --
    With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
    1. Re:YES! by gowen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He who controls the past, controls the future.
      We are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia.
      Eurasia had proven links to the 9/11 evildoers.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    2. Re:YES! by rufty_tufty · · Score: 1

      I'm reminded of the Churchill quote:
      History will be kind to me for I intend to write it

      --
      "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
  9. Berlin Wall footage by Winlin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was just thinking the other day about some of the most memorable events I have watched on the news, and the one I most wished I had taped more of was the Wall being swarmed by those happy crowds. And now the BBC has given me a late Xmas present:)
        Those were the days...when you turned on the news to see what new GOOD stuff had happened since you last watched.

    1. Re:Berlin Wall footage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Yes, but the question is, does the footage include David Hasselhoff standing on a raised platform singing Looking For Freedom, while wearing a leather jacket adorned by Christmas tree lights?

      Seriously. Not only did it happen, but the song was #1 in Germany for five weeks. I know this sounds like a joke, but it's really true. Use Google if you don't believe me.

  10. And yet their DRM... by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

    ... on the iMP service shows the exact opposite attitude. Information is there to be shared and yet BBC owned programs werent exempt from the DRM they used to lock it into the UK among other things. I mean for Chrissakes, freely sharing information is what it's about, yet locking it to one country? So no, the BBC is no different.

    --
    ~HTP~ Hug that tux ;)
    1. Re:And yet their DRM... by JeanBaptiste · · Score: 1

      Well I believe the reason they do that is because BBC is a UK-taxpayer funded service, so they only want UK taxpayers reaping the rewards. I heard that somewhere. fwiw.

    2. Re:And yet their DRM... by Aphrika · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'd wager there that the BBC is different, but in a slightly different way than you'd expect.

      That difference is the £126.50 TV license that any TV-owning UK household has to pay. Hence this is is the reason why content is locked in via country - it's not really free as such, we're paying for it. However, it's damn good money for 365 days a year of TV and full content from their online service (including iMP).

      £126.50? It's a bargain. Do I mind that I pay for it? No, not at all...

    3. Re:And yet their DRM... by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1, Interesting

      And when I travel on business? I'm buggered, non? This is going to affect british people who travel. And do I stop paying my licence when i travel? I don't think so....

      --
      ~HTP~ Hug that tux ;)
    4. Re:And yet their DRM... by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      I mind. I mind they're illegally restricting me from using that iMP service by locking it into windows, i mind that i won't be able to use any of their DRMed services when i'm abroad. I mind they're wasting a hell of a lot of licencepayers' money on DRM when we could be having a cheaper licence.

      --
      ~HTP~ Hug that tux ;)
    5. Re:And yet their DRM... by LordSnooty · · Score: 1

      Come now, that's just stupid. I suppose you've spent the last 10 years lobbying for an international TV which will pick up the BBC wherever you are?

    6. Re:And yet their DRM... by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      Nowadays we've moved to the web, it's this wonderful thing where information is available very quickly at any place in the world. The web was meant for freely sharing information, this just buggers that concept up

      --
      ~HTP~ Hug that tux ;)
    7. Re:And yet their DRM... by DJCF · · Score: 1

      The DRM is only present because the studios who produced the content demanded it -- so it's much like iTMS. And Linux and Apple clients are comming.

  11. Only in the UK!? by xeon4life · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Only legal if you're in the UK. Not truly open, is it? :-(

    --
    Real programmers can write assembly code in any language. -- Larry Wall
  12. Fantastic idea, I hope they expand on it... by Aphrika · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I had a quick flick through what's there and it's currently mostly MS Encarta kind of material: those landmark events that put the last 50 years on the map. So in a way it's great as an additional resource for school projects and that kind of thing. However, I can't help but think that the clips are each like islands - there's so much more that the BBC could offer around each clip - a bit like their On This Day section which I absolutely love.

    I can't but help think that if history began 50 years ago, the BBC would be the best record of it. Over time, the information the BBC collects and stores will become more relevant and more complete than most archives out there, and the fact that they're opening it up for use is great. My only fear is that they'll stop with the 'big' stuff - the Encarta style stuff we're seeing here.

    The other interesting point is: if there are x new organisations in the world collecting, collating and storing y amount of information(*) each on a minute by minute basis, is there a possibility that Google(**) would cease to be able to deal with the capacity? Currently it indexes what it can see, but what about the millions and millions of pages, articles, scripts, reports, audio and video recordings that are not online? People I've met that work at the BBC assure me that they have access to tools that 'put Google to shame' when cross-referencing information (I'd love to know more about this if any Beeb employees would like to reply).

    I digress, in any case this is a good thing. Free information is a good thing...

    (*) Important to note that Google just indexes what's there, rather than it being an information supplier.
    (**) Can we coin a Law describing the point in a thread when Google is first mentioned in a Slashdot thread? Goodot's Law?

    1. Re:Fantastic idea, I hope they expand on it... by uptoeleven · · Score: 1

      free as in speech, not as in beer.

      Although I'd have to say as a license-fee payer, it is by far the best thing the beeb have ever done with my license fee ;)

    2. Re:Fantastic idea, I hope they expand on it... by cyberformer · · Score: 1

      Technically, it's free as in beer too. They restrict it to the UK, not just to license-fee payers. So if you live in the UK and don't have a TV, you get it for nothing.

    3. Re:Fantastic idea, I hope they expand on it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So we'd all be waiting for Goodot?

    4. Re:Fantastic idea, I hope they expand on it... by cjb110 · · Score: 1

      "(*) Important to note that Google just indexes what's there, rather than it being an information supplier."
      But isn't google prooving that an index is 'information' and more than that its often more important than the information it indexes? :)

      --
      ----- I refuse to have an argument with an unarmed person
  13. Old show by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm still looking for Q. The beeb erased the tapes but someone had a copy. Where is it!???

  14. summary.... by hihihihi · · Score: 1

    boy...
    games:1
    20th anniversary(wars and disaster):2
    tsunami:4
    Africa politics:10
    ireland politics:3
    terror:3
    south asia:3
    Space:3
    Colonalism:2 (hongkong)
    cold wars:8
    n korea/china:4
    katrina:2
    royal weds:4
    dubai:2
    globe warming:3
    brit scence and people:9
    elvis:1
    east asia politics:4
    tax roit(i wish they had be here):3
    piper alpha (dunno what):5
    cloning:2
    ship sink:2


    ... seems they take coldwar/communism quite seriously ... as much as they take royal weddings and africa politics.

    --
    everyone downmodding this post will be prosecuted for reading my post without first buying a license!!!
  15. No Endorsement and No derogatory use by Wellington+Grey · · Score: 0, Redundant

    While I do understand the reason for UK only use, can anyone explain to me why the need for a 'No Endorsement and No derogatory use' clause? And who's going to determine what is derogatory anyway?

    -Grey

    --
    Silver Clipboard: Time Management Tips
    1. Re:No Endorsement and No derogatory use by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      While I do understand the reason for UK only use, can anyone explain to me why the need for a 'No Endorsement and No derogatory use' clause?

      It has to do with the rules about what the BBC can and can't do. Among other things, the BBC has to be politically neutral, they can't openly endorse a particular policy or opinion. They're usually pretty good at managing this, to the extent that all the political parties generally think the BBC is consistently biased against them... It seems they have to impose this condition on the material they're releasing here, too.

      And who's going to determine what is derogatory anyway?

      Probably a judge, should it come to that. Suppose you take BBC footage and edit it together into a searing condemnation of, say, Tory policy in the latter half of the 20th century; you post this online, it spreads like crazy, as a result the Tories' hopes of winning the 2010 election are suddenly scuppered. They sue the BBC. The BBC then say that it's not their fault; what you did, you did in violation of your licence to the media you used. They can hardly be held responsible for what someone does with a pirate copy of their footage, now, can they?

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  16. Question: by Wellington+Grey · · Score: 1

    If I live in the UK, but I don't have a TV (and thus don't pay the TV license fee) am I still allowed to use the clips?

    -Grey

    --
    Silver Clipboard: Time Management Tips
    1. Re:Question: by hug_the_penguin · · Score: 1

      I would suspect you will have to log on with your licence number and password before long to use any of their services. Well if they don't clear up their act then it's fine by me because i'll stop paying the licence since i rarely watch TV as is.

      --
      ~HTP~ Hug that tux ;)
    2. Re:Question: by elvum · · Score: 1

      Yes.

    3. Re:Question: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, just like you're allowed to operate a radio and listen to BBC radio stations without a TV license. Go figure...

  17. Wha...? by lheal · · Score: 3, Informative
    Here in the US we seem to be much more wrapped up in who owns the rights to something and how to make money from it.

    You're holding up the BBC as an paragon of social virtue by comparing them to whom? CNN, or PBS? The BBC was created for this kind of thing. Making content available to the public is straight out of the BBC Charter:

    OBJECTS OF THE CORPORATION
    3. The objects of the Corporation are as follows:-
    (a) To provide, as public services, sound and television broadcasting services (whether by analogue or digital means) and to provide sound and television programmes of information, education and entertainment for general reception in Our United Kingdom [...]
    --
    Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
    1. Re:Wha...? by LordSnooty · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ah, I love being a Brit. Look at the first paragraph of the charter. "TO ALL TO WHOM THESE PRESENTS SHALL COME, GREETING!" That's actually part of an official government document! Ah, you USians would kill for a history which can begat such quaint traditions.

    2. Re:Wha...? by jmcmunn · · Score: 1


      I think we did kill to get AWAY from that history...as I recall it was a bunch of brits.

      (that was a joke, nothing against the UK just couldn't resist)

    3. Re:Wha...? by terrymr · · Score: 1

      and where else would you find a name like "Our right trusty and well beloved Counsellor Virginia Bottomley Our Secretary of State for National Heritage"

    4. Re:Wha...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your point being? The fact that the BBC "was created for this kind of thing" shows that the media in the UK is less "wrapped up in who owns the rights to something and how to make money from it".

  18. Election Year? by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    This content seems quite political...

    Fighting communism etc.

    Where are all the TV shows?

    Basically who decided what would be made available? If they used something like bittorrent the amount of content wouldn't matter compared to the bandwith the BBC uses.

    1. Re:Election Year? by LordSnooty · · Score: 1

      Rights issues. Very cheap or free to offer this type of content. Check out the roadmap at the site - "Science & Nature" is next. Yep, more stuff where you generally don't have to pay the paricipants. I don't expect we'll see regular TV shows of the type you imagine for a long time.

  19. No derogatory use vs. Satire by j()nty · · Score: 1

    One of the terms in the Creative Archive Licence is No derogatory use. But if I take one of these pieces, create a satirical version, and someone is offended enough to complain about my satire then is that derogatory use. Who decides? Head of Creative Archive Licensing at the BBC? The producer of the original item? The offended person? And what is the standard for derogatory?

    1. Re:No derogatory use vs. Satire by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 1

      You know, it is possible to satirize something without being derogatory. FYI.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
  20. Sharing derived works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Surely I can share derived works with whoever I want (as long as non-profit etc).

    I think the UK-only thing is stopping others modifying data, they can't stop them merely having it.

  21. first item on the list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and by amazing coincidence the first item on the list is the 1966 World Cup Final. Description: England beat West Germany in the final.

    but like gary lineker said, football is a game with 22 people and in the end the germans always win :)

  22. this sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To download content you must sign in or register.

    who the hell wants to sign up?

  23. Ubuntu playback by Gerv · · Score: 1

    My default Ubuntu Totem can't play back any of the three formats (well, I tried MPEG and Quicktime; I assumed WMP wouldn't work). Anyone else had more luck? Is there any way someone on Linux who doesn't want to install non-free/illegal codecs can play back Creative Archive video?

    Where's the Dirac version? ;-)

    Gerv

  24. Damn! Those Brits have beaten us again. by craXORjack · · Score: 5, Funny

    While Uncle Sam schemes to wring the last few cents out of fifty year old news clips and commentaries, John Bull just starts giving it away thus ensuring that History will a british spin on it for the next thousand years. What's next? I suppose the French will start giving their music away so that the rhythmic ditties of our lovely Britney will be relegated to the forgotten dustheap of the late 20th century? I can't think of anything worse unless someone like the Swedes did away with copyright entirely. Then our grandchildren could grow up thinking Ingmar Bergman was the greatest filmmaker of our day instead of Quentin Tarentino. How could I live in a world where european artsy-fartsy movies become the basis of third millenia culture while Kill Bill 2 rots a slow celluloid death in a forgotten warehouse in post-apocalyptic Los Angeles? Oh woe. Woe is me.

    --
    Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
  25. Powered by Ruby on Rails? by swimmar132 · · Score: 1

    I hear this may be powered by Ruby on Rails.

    http://weblog.rubyonrails.com/articles/2005/10/31/ bbc-is-using-rails-for-programme-catalogue-of-a-mi llion-shows

  26. We do pay the BBC..... by adsl · · Score: 1

    Those of us residing overseas probably pay more money, per hour of BBC TV watched, than those in the UK paying for it with their license fees! How come? Well we PAY for several Cable channels, including, but not limited to PBS, A&E etc. etc. for the skant BBC TV offerings which appear and many are not the newer stuff. In turn these Cable Channels BUY the product from the BBC. Hence, we overseas (America for me) actually arrange for the BBC to be paid by program. On top of that many donate to the PBS which in turn uses the money to also BUY BBC programming. All of this provides the BBC with decent overseas income and that's not even including cxhannels which the BBBC partcipates in directly, such as BBCAmerica. Hence overseas people are helping to fund the BBC over and above the UK TV license fee. So we should have some use of the websites. I see that in the proposed BBC programme streaming, we people overseas will be excluded. Smacks of indirect taxation w/o representation IMHO. The BBC seems to often ask "too much" for newer programing. The new Dr. Who (in it's second year) is not shown in America, presumably because the price being asked for each episode is TOO HIGH. Strangely, in America one can receive, over Cable (or satellite), French, Italian, German, Korean, Japanese, mainland China (you get the message) current TV for a monthly small fee. But the BBC does not have such a current offering. Probably because of (dare I say it?) BBC greed because they want us ONLY to watch 30 year old programming (mostly) on BBCAmerica (not picked up by my cable company) and/or whatever other programming turns up on other channels. i.e. the BBC thinks they make MORE money from us the way it is. So to summarize: The Press in the UK is WRONG about us overseas freeloading. We do PAY, just indirectly and as I say, more per hour of programming watched than UK citizens at home. BBCAmerica isn't freely available and anyway is 80% really old stuff. The BBC such look at the premium channel "Starz" and their today's PR about www.wonago.com For $10.00 p.m. one will get the current Starz programming and be able to download from a library of 1,000 Films. ome On BBC we who live outside the UK can become your direct customers...it's up to YOU.

  27. "Nearly 80" isn't a /huge/ amount, is it? by Lproven · · Score: 1

    I checked. I thought it might be a typo for "80,000" or something.

    But no. It's correct. "Nearly 80". For fifty years. That's one and a half per year, roughly. Not exactly a huge amount, is it?

    OK, so, good step, could have interesting results. Not my personal thing but I'm sure it will appeal to lots of film students and home editor/directors and all sorts.

    But it's hardly an overwhelming archive of the millions of hours the Beeb must have stored up, is it?

    --
    Liam P. ~ "Intelligence is a lethal mutation." (me)
    1. Re:"Nearly 80" isn't a /huge/ amount, is it? by DJCater · · Score: 1

      Helen Boaden, director of BBC News, said: "This trial is an important step in allowing us to share with our audiences the extraordinary news archive which the BBC has recorded over the years. We look forward to getting their reaction."

      It's a trial.

      --
      Sig Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
  28. They do for a lot of stuff by cyberformer · · Score: 1

    I agree, as a former UK license-payer now living elsewhere. (I already paid for some of this content, yet I can't access it.) But most of the stuff on the BBC's Web site is accessible worldwide, with UK residents (and in some cases, paying subscribers) only getting higher bit-rates, better resolution, etc.

    Most of this stuff doesn't look so great, anwyay. It all seems to be 2- or 3- minute clips, not full programmes from the archives. And I'm sure that any sites that redistribute/remix the content will be accessible from outside the UK, whether or not that's technically legal. (The license terms definitely don't say anything about restricting access in the same way that the BBC does, so it looks like they're mostly concerned about bandwidth as far as the public is concerned.)

    1. Re:They do for a lot of stuff by gronofer · · Score: 1
      The license terms say that the material is only provided for use within the UK. So as far as I can see, they aren't giving you permission to put the original/remixed material on a globally accessible website.

      This certainly kills any enthusiasm that I might have had for doing anything with it.

  29. BBC1 and BBC2 by [ella] · · Score: 1

    As a cable viewer in Belgium, part of my cable fee goes to BBC (not BBC World Service). OK, it's not direct, the cable company pays a set amount. But I'm sure that the cable company has calculated how much we owe them for BBC (only 1 and 2) ;-)

    --
    Mike
  30. demo, and probably thrown out much of the rest... by fantomas · · Score: 1

    For a start they are probably testing the waters by releasing a little to start with, and secondly, I think you'll find if/when they release more it will become apparent how much doesn't exist any more. BBC archives of programmes like Dr. Who have been thrown out or wiped and I am sure this is true of many other recordings.

  31. Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's quite possibly the most pathetic thing I've heard in a very long time.

  32. Thanks BBC, now where are the torrents? by Willuknight · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is wonderful, i can already see an entire range of clips i want to watch, yet when i click, i see a horrid "brits only" sign... Anyone posted torrents yet ?

    --
    Do not anger the Karma Whores, for they don't bathe often, and might decide to come visit you in person. -Ryan Amos
    1. Re:Thanks BBC, now where are the torrents? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because pirating content you didn't pay a license fee for is a great way to encourage the BBC to continue openly providing it to those who did. If you really want the content, fill out their survey - that way they might consider opening their trials up instead of locking them down further.

  33. Re:demo, and probably thrown out much of the rest. by meringuoid · · Score: 2, Informative
    I think you'll find if/when they release more it will become apparent how much doesn't exist any more. BBC archives of programmes like Dr. Who have been thrown out or wiped and I am sure this is true of many other recordings.

    Certainly true, but still, the BBC's archive is still enormous, and has got to be one of the most valuable records we have of the 20th century. If this pilot works well, there's a lot they could add to it.

    Regarding the Slashdotter's dream of a vast, legal online archive of Doctor Who - the problem there will be with copyrights and actors' contracts and so forth. For example, Terry Nation (or rather, the estate thereof) owns the Daleks. For them to confront the Ninth Doctor took a lot of negotiation by the BBC. What fee would be demanded of the BBC if they proposed to put all the old Dalek episodes online for free download? Or, suppose that, say, Tom Baker's contract says he gets x pounds every time an episode in which he appears gets repeated. How does that translate to downloads? Does he get a penny every time someone downloads an episode? Must the BBC now track down every actor in every episode and negotiate individually with them all?

    They'll be busy enough digitising the old news footage for a long time yet. Time enough for a legal framework to be sorted out in which they can begin adding the adventures of the Time Lord.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  34. Re:demo, and probably thrown out much of the rest. by Lproven · · Score: 1

    I'm sure you're right, on both counts. I do know about how much they have erased. It's very sad but with the volume of stuff they produce one can see why they do it!

    WIBNI they released everything they could that's left, though? At some point?

    --
    Liam P. ~ "Intelligence is a lethal mutation." (me)
  35. Re:demo, and probably thrown out much of the rest. by aziraphale · · Score: 1

    The majority of material deleted (Not Only ... But Also, Doctor Who, that kind of thing) was entertainment programming - thrown out to make room for the BBC to archive its current affairs output. I don't think the beeb has any worry that when it comes to releasing its complete news archive it won't have every single regional news program from the last 20 years to throw in to the mix. Certainly they will have the vast majority of national news footage that has ever been broadcast, every episode of Panorama, every Question Time...