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Thompson's (Mostly) Polite Interview
Pluvius writes "For the past few weeks, gaming website Netjak has corresponded with infamous anti-video-game lawyer Jack Thompson in reference to his well-publicized proposal to donate money to a charity if someone created a violent game in which a grieving father murdered members of the video-game industry. This has culminated in an interview in which the unusually cordial attorney gives surprisingly viable reasons for not following through on his donation after such a game was created. Unfortunately, Thompson doesn't quite make it to the end of the interview without taking at least one cheap shot towards gamers: '[P]ut down the controller and get a life. Video gaming is an escapist activity and you're being exploited by these companies. It's not healthy; I worry about someone who would play Grand Theft Auto for ten hours a day. It's a masturbatory activity, and it would be better if people put down the controller and went outside.'"
...where they can be exposed the horrors in real life. The is Art imitating Life. There might not be a game that represents a grieving father killing his family, but in some parts of the real world it doesn't even qualify as news.
Scared of flying, pointy things snce 1979!
"I worry about someone who would play Grand Theft Auto for ten hours a day. It's a masturbatory activity, and it would be better if people put down the controller and went outside." So if I play nothing but GTA I'll grow hair on my palms and/or go blind?
I Lost My Virginity While Waiting for BSD to Compile.
It's not healthy; I worry about someone who would play Grand Theft Auto for ten hours a day. It's a masturbatory activity, and it would be better if people put down the controller and went outside.'"
It's not healthy; I worry about someone who would beleive in a magic sky-deity. It's a masturbatory activity, and it would be better if people put down the bible and went outside.'"
Fixed
"Video gaming is an escapist activity "
Absolutely. Going out to the movies and reading books are also espacist activities. Life is work, and people need escapist activites to stay sane. No one wants to hear about the real world 24/7, because in reality the real world is harsh and cutthroat.
Video games let the user enter another world for a healthy stress relief. This is no different than watching Lord of the Rings or reading the latest Tom Clancy novel.
The question isn't if Video Games negatively affects the user in real life, but rather what would that person do in real life without video games? I'm guessing not everyone would be out gardening or street sweeping.
It's a masturbatory activity, and it would be better if people put down the controller and went outside.
But even if the teenagers/youth aren't playing the game, they're still masturbatory.
Death by snoo-snoo!
Yes, it's a cheap shot.
Yes, he's a loathsome person, and his tactics are sleazy.
Yes, he's almost always wrong.
However, he's closer to right with that last comment. Balance is an important thing in life. I wouldn't refer to gaming as 'masturbatory' perhaps, at least if goals are possible, but having a sense of perspective about leisure pursuits is valuable.
IMHO.
Of course, this comment could be just being made to rationalize why the wife won't let me play PGR3 for 5 hours a night.
stored on computers from birth to the grave
Fanatics in general are disturbing. I feel, like the RIAA, his efforts are futile. I don't believe legislation is the solution to social problems.
i don't care
Other than the last responce the rest of his interview was quite surprisingly well spoken and reasonable. One can only assume that recent disbarment hearings have had an effect on his brashness. I can definatly agree to him that Take-Two should not be marketing towards minors, but in all honestly I can't recall them doing so and would love to see examples of such.
The man is right, you know. We all should put down those videogames and study law. Then when we grow up we can spend our time contructively by finding something other people like to do and rage a political war against it. A few generations of that and we'll have a society where no time is wasted and everyone is either working or sleeping. Just picture what a great world that would be.
However, Take-Two's stock has taken a serious hit over the past year. Now the damage is obvious, and the audience is more receptive.
So, since I stirred up all of this trouble for you and now hold stock in your company, I would like to point out the error of your ways. This is ridiculous, this is a shakedown.
His potshot at gamers is irrelevant to the entire scope of his assault on game makers. Regardless of what sort of activity gaming is, escapist, masterbatory or otherwise, it is the choice of gamers to do it. Making snide comments towards gamers just shows more of the cheap, petty, 6th grade personality of Jack Thompson. He will fail because he cant restrain himself from showing his true inner person. That inner person is mean spirited and pathetic.
I stated that the game had to come out in 2006. I specifically said 2006 because I wanted to see a real game made, not an amateur one.
And who decides what's "real" and what's "amateur"? If you can install and play it, it counts as real to me, but I think Jack Thompson is using his own private definition of "real" that doesn't coincide with the conventional definition.
So basically, no matter what anybody does, he's going to move the goalposts so that whatever he defines as "real" is not met. It's already happened once; he made the claim, somebody took him up on it, and now he's claiming it's not "real" (for some value of real). If somebody releases a better game this year, he'll say that it hasn't had enough marketing to be a "real" game. If somebody markets it, he'll say that it didn't sell as many copies as GTA, so it's not a "real" game. Because he controls what counts as "real", he can continue moving the goalposts so that no matter what anybody does, his criteria will never be fulfilled.
And what does the release date have to do with whether the game is "real" or not? It's a red herring designed to distract you from the main point.
I also explicitly stated that it must be a company producing the game. I mean, anyone in a garage can throw together something vaguely game-like easily.
A perfect example. If you can play it, it's a game. Not "something vaguely game-like" - an actual, real game.
That's not what I want
Tough, it's what you asked for. Now you're playing semantic games to try and make it sound like you asked for something else. It's not working.
I find it very telling that, when asked what he thought about the $10,000 donation to charity, he couldn't bring himself to admit that it was a good thing, and instead chose to complain that it wasn't really made in his name. So much for his "Christian obligations".
For example, his comment about a game needing to be written 'by a company'. He says that anyone can knock something up in a garage. Well, Darwinia was one of the best games to come out last year and was knocked up in a garage; Counterstrike started life as a purely amateur project. By his logic, neither of these are real games.
I think Thompson's fundamental issue is that when he looks at something, he sees what he expects to see, not what he actually looks at. From what little information I can find about Bully, it's the exact opposite of what he says it is --- it's all about standing up to the bullies and defeating them. But he wants it to be evil, so that's what he sees...
Actually, I suspect he should see a psychiatrist, not because there's anything wrong now, but because this might blow up into something more serious later. He may also have borderline paranoid tendencies. The way he's being harrassed by PA and Slashdot weenies probably isn't helping, either.
It's a masturbatory activity
I'm pretty much in favour of masturbation too, Jack. The only reason I don't do that for ten hours straight is...
Oh, he hung up.
First, I don't agree that his reasons are viable, but that's actually beside the point.
What this man is doing is holding money hostage from charity. Had he simply given the money away alongside his "satirical" proposal, it might have been something admirable. What he's doing is saying that he has the money and will give it to the sick kids or educational software creaters or whomever, but not until his demands are met.
Whether you agree with his justification for ponying up or not, that's fucking despicable. And so is he.
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
> "It's not healthy; I worry about someone who would play Grand Theft Auto for ten hours
> a day. It's a masturbatory activity, and it would be better if people put down the
> controller and went outside."
Masturbation gets a bad rap, it can be quite a sociable activity in the right company.
All of these let you get away and forget the evils of the world, why is it that Jack wars against just video games? The content of the medium is no worse than books, television, radio, or movies.
Just because you can, does not mean you should.
Well we would go outside if:
a) There was fun things to do.
b) That didn't cost an arm and a leg (or at least costs more than I am prepared to pay for such entertainment)
c) It was safe from muggers, rapists, paedophiles and generaly dangerous people.
d) That I didn't risk getting run over when stepping out my front door.
Going outside (bar the healthy excercise aspect) is just another class of comercial organisations getting money out of you: drinks, snacks, food, skateboards, bikes, transport etc. etc. It is Capitalism, get used to it, you should be already you ARE a lawyer (and an American one at THAT).
No, I think I will stay at home, play my "escapism" game (why I should need to escape from this life is fairly self-explanatory...real life sucks: work, shopping, war, famine, Tsunami, Hurricanes) and head to the fridge for a Coke when I get thirsty thanks...
Karem
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
I have to debate the fact that the games in question are intentionally marketed to children. Publishers can advise the retailers all they want to not sell the game to minors, however, there will always be that one guy at EB, Rhino or elsewhere that thinks he'll be "cool" and let the kid buy it. Or the parents or grandparents will buy it for the child. Could the retailer advise the customer of the content? Yes. Will they? No. It's a sale, and the parent should be researching that aspect.
Those who believe the Internet is private,
find their privates are on the Internet.
"I worry about someone who would play Grand Theft Auto for ten hours a day. It's a masturbatory activity..."
How the hell does Jack know that I masturbate while I play GTA for 10 hours!
That statement RIGHT THERE tells me that he's not on some moral quest, he doesn't give a fuck about our well-being, and he thinks we're all losers. He hates games and gamers. Period. Is it impossible to enjoy games and not have a life? Of course not. Gaming, like any hobby, can be done in moderation or taken to extremes. You can take his response, replace "controller" and "play Grand Theft Auto" with other items from various hobbies, and viola -- there's your attack. "I don't understand your entertainment choices and their associated culture, so I'll insult them and you!"
You know, some folks who play games have steady jobs, own houses, pay bills... Hell, they can even get married and be great parents, include games in their children's lives, and sometimes they even *gasp* PLAY THOSE GAMES WITH THEM!
I wonder if he holds kids going hunting with their dads in the same light.
"Apparently so, but suppose you throw a coin enough times. Suppose one day, it lands on its edge."
His Excellency Yuri Ushakov
Russian Federation Ambassador to the United States
Embassy of the Russian Federation
2650 Wisconsin Ave., NW
Washington, D.C. Via email and fax to 202-298-5735
Re: Knife Attack in Moscow Synagogue Allegedly Inspired by Violent American Video Game, Postal 2
Dear Ambassador Ushakov:
I am an expert, recognized as such in the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Spain, and elsewhere, as to the disturbing nexus between violent video game play and real-world violence.
I have been repeatedly interviewed as to this nexus by the BBC and by major news media in this country.
As you know, a young person in Moscow just went on a knifing spree, allegedly inspired to do so by the incredibly violent PC video game, Postal 2.
In this game, by the way, a player can place his virtual gun into the anus of a cat to use the feline as a silencer. That is how depraved is Vince Desi, the head of the company that makes this game. He is a sociopath.
This game is being distributed around the world by Mr. Desi's US company, Running with Scissors, whose corporate slogan is "To kill or not to kill? What a stupid question."
We have had a large number of killings in this country linked by law enforcement to these types of murder simulation games. Our US Defense Department actually uses virtual reality killing simulators like this to break down the inhibition of new recruits to kill, so of course it has this same effect on civilians.
Running with Scissors has recently entered into an arrangement whereby it can distribute its murder simulators via the Internet, thereby bypassing various nations' restrictions on the distribution of such harmful material to minors. The Russian Federation must stop this practice.
I am a Republican who can tell you that United States President George W. Bush has direct financial ties to the violent video game industry--such as Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc., through massive campaign contributions by the political lobbying firm of Blank Rome--so there is a collaboration of sorts between the US government and the violent video game industry to export this dangerous garbage around the globe. In fact, our Defense Department has actually subsidized the creation of some of these virtual reality killing games at an agency known as the Institute for Creative Technologies. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is this program's chief enthusiast.
I appeared on ABC World News Tonight blowing the whistle on this nonsense, which also extensively involves the Sony Corporation.
Please feel free to contact me for additional information as soon as possible. I think at the very least the Russian Federation should lodge a formal protest with the United States government regarding the importation of Postal 2 and the mayhem at the Moscow synagogue that it may very well have caused.
Regards, Jack Thompson
"Video gaming is an escapist activity"
"You will be the one escaping!"
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
. . . however, it was MORE interesting two days ago, when I submitted it. I've been reading Slasdot since 96? 97? Talk about going down hill. Old news for Nerds. Hey Taco, fuck you, your editors suck, no matter how much you try to spin it. Bye
The shots he takes at PA are just ridiculous. He's attributing far more to "Gabe" and "Tycho" than they're even capable of. He's obviously extremely paranoid.
Lord knows why people pay any attention to extremists of all sorts. Haven't we better things to do?
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
He suffers from the same view that makes me unable to put up with most conservatives and christians. Despite my typically liberal (democrat) views I think it is honestly going to keep me from voting for Hillary in the coming election (and dont act like she isnt going to run) to.
He thinks that its ok to censor what other people do. As if by putting all of these restrictions on video games he can push ALL of the gamers into quiting this horrible habit and make them go outside and do "normal things. This is not his concern and people who think that they are right in trying to force their views down other people's throats really get to me. It isnt a matter of whether or not kids can get their hands on this stuff. He has shown time and time again that he has nothing but disdain for gamers in general. Its kind of like the ultra conservative christians pushing to put the same bans on cable television that they do on the airwaves. Guess what, it is service that people pay for from a company who has decided to sell it and nobody is forced to pay for it.
I guess what I am saying is that it would be different if he wanted to only keep kids from playing these games but it is becoming more and more clear that he wants to destroy the industry as a whole because what they produce disagrees with his views of what is right and what is wrong.
I feel the same way about feminists trying to ban porn and Christians trying to censor PRIVATELY OWNED cable and satelite channels.
As a matter of fact I am half black and I am against people trying to censor hate material as well.
This is a road we do not want to start down. All it takes is a few steps in the wrong direction to put us in a hole we can't get out of.
We seldom regret saying too little but often regret saying too much.
Here's a game of MadLibs:
Start with:
and replace references to video games with television:
or howabout we change them to literacy references?
See? Isn't that fun?
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
And I quote:
"Back in the day, Eliot Ness didn't go after the small-time criminals. Eliot Ness went after Al Capone Actually, I must offer my apologies to Al Capone. He only targeted adults, corrupt adults with his crimes. Capone never went after minors."
Well, okay Jack, I feel much better about myself now that I know you don't mind that I killed all those helpless elderly people at the nursing home. They were adults after all. At least I didn't make a violent video game or anything. Whew, what a load off my mind. This dude is gone....
When he talks about how he sent the cops after PA, and only at that point did he realize that he didn't know where they were?
And then he acts as if he is only doing this because Take Two is evil and he just wants them to stop marketing their games to kids? Never mind that this is an outright lie, and completely overlooks all the stuff he's done prior to going after Take-Two:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson
Go outside? What the hell is this man smoking? It's 40 degrees outside and windy which means it's pretty damn cold. I'd sure as hell like him to tell me why he thinks it's so great outdoors and just what he plans to do once he starts freezing his own ass off out there.
Isn't this the same kind of logic that took us to Iraq? We don't need proof of WMDs; it's irrelevant to the subject. I don't mean this as a troll, I mean that it's an incredibly stupid thing to say.
Let's say I'm a huge anti-nudist. I see screen shots of Schindler's List that have naked women. Do I protest Schnindler's List - without having seen the movie - because it has nudity? The context might, just might be important.
God Bless America. Why? Did it sneeze?
I'll tell you what, there's more to life than GTA anyway, and he has a point about the extreme cases - though one is left with the impression that he tends to generalize toward the extreme. In any case, the quote above in the blurb isn't exactly what I'd call a cheap shot. There is indeed more to life than GTA and cathode rays. Let's all go out into the big room occasionally, 'k?
This sig no verb.
'It's a masturbatory activity, and it would be better if people put down the controller and went outside.'
Funny, that's where I do most of my masturbation.
So here it is:
Please define "properly"
Many people have developed games that people can play on their own, without any assistance. Since the type of game was not specified, even a text adventure should qualify.
This is A) irrelevant if the other criteria are not met and B) a bullshit, stupid loophole. By choosing a charity he only adds fire to Thompson's stunt.
More people are dying from AIDS in Africa because no one wants to seem to help them out than could possibly be dying because of a video game. Asshole.
Of course not. He's been rabidly attacking the video game industry and at the same time everything America stands for. Why would any game company want to even talk to him?
You said that already. Stop hiding behind it.
OMGWTFBBQ Gabe and Tycho told some people to leaflet m
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I read the article and saw numerous quotes that were ripe for refutation (at least in a /. post). At first, it made me think maybe nobody intelligent has truly engaged him before and that he seems reasonable enough to deserve to be challenged properly. Then I remembered that he's just a troll. He pretends that the only challenge he faces is from belligerent and fearful gamers and gaming press because they know he's right. He only pretends to take this high-ground because he is the same way towards reasoned responses: namely ill-informed and intolerant. I realized it would be a total waste of time and effort to comb through the fallacies and faults of his words. He doesn't want to honestly discuss the issues at hand; he just needs to pretend that he does in a way that's convincing and beneficial to his coffers.
;)
If, somehow, he hasn't yet been engaged intelligently, maybe it's because anyone capable of doing so has more productive things to do with their time.
So I thought: What's the deeper issue?
So-called "good Christians" want to legislate how non-Christians live. I believe all children should be thought of as non-Christians because they haven't yet had sufficient opportunity to make their own choices autonomously from their parents (and the trappings of their parents' world views / religions / etc.). Many United Statesian Christians want to wield law as a sledgehammer to pulverize all the unbelievers into restrictions they believe lead to increased morality (i.e., "holiness") and proximity to their concept of G-d.
These Christians should pass their laws against only their fellow Christian brethren.
Inconvenience and increased legal restriction in the name of good should be no problem for those professed "believers" because they believe they will live forever after they pass on from this life. For those of us who don't believe (and it is a most personal and important choice... even for children who are growing to discover themselves and their position in, and relation to, the larger world), we think this life here is all we have. These Christians who want to tell everyone else how to live should prove their amazing faith by laying their lives down at the mercy of all the unbelievers. They think they will go on to a wonderful eternal place of fantasy, which would leave us to get along here in reality without their restrictions. Who cares if a believing Christian suffers or dies here? They should be happy that their reward in heaven will be that much more joyous. They should totally stop giving unbelievers a hard time as this is all we have. I don't want to personally perform the euthanasia of all these Christians who want to force others into living by their ideals, but maybe the mercy of the unbelievers could send them all on their classic crusade against fundamentalist Muslims. Fundamentalist religious people from everywhere should all fight to the death and leave life to the living. It'd make a great "reality" show && probably a more lucrative video game than an insane father scapegoating game developers for his failings as a parent.
-Pip
re:"one could say that his desire to insert himself into other people's affairs is a masturbatory activity"
That sounds pretty disgusting actually.
I don't think the words "masturbatory" and "insert" should be used in reference to Jack Thompson in the same paragraph. At least, not when I just had lunch.
Seriously - ew.
No, he's polite. You don't have to be rooted in reality or non-inflammatory to be polite.
"Nice weather out, isn't it? I guess those arch-capitalist Jews have decided to give us some reprieve from their anti-poor hurricane creator, thank goodness."
Rob