Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft IE 7 Goes (More) Beta
Hans W. Smith writes "Microsoft has unveiled Internet Explorer 7, releasing the new "preview" version of its Web browser to the general public for testing. The latest version works only with Windows XP Service Pack 2 and includes many of the features Microsoft has been touting for months such as: privacy protection,tabbed browsing and a search box similar to Firefox. They tried to outdo Firefox tab browsing with a feature call Quick tab which shows thumbnail view of all open tabs in a single window."
Yup, you saw it yesterday. Posting before coffee never works.
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
The "new" quicktab feature is nothing more than a copy of the Firefox Viewmatic Foxposé...
http://viamatic.com/index.php/firefox
And M$ says to dev, please install IE7 Beta and test your pages... except that if I do that, it kills IE6, and I can't check my pages as they'll be seen by 90% of visitors...
Is it just me or does Micorosft appear bored by IE7. Its not like its a finished product, they're are tens of standards that they don't conform too, its leaky and yet they're taking years between major revisions.
I know in the 90s it looked like who ever won the browser wars would take over the world, but 10 years on that seems to be the business logic of the underpant gnomes. Why don't they just give up, and distribute Firefox, SeaMonkey or some Gecko based wonder, instead of IE?
Scared of flying, pointy things snce 1979!
The new browser also includes tabbed browsing and a search box on a more streamlined toolbar, concepts that should be familiar to users of Firefox, a rival browser distributed by the Mozilla Foundation.
Maybe at their next huge product release, Microsoft could give some credit to Mozilla and Firefox for helping them make a better browser? Just a thought.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Did they fix the 3 pixel shift bug?
Did they fix position:fixed?
Did they fix float messing up other blocks?
(I can't try it, as I use Windows 2000 Server.)
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
So much for IE having features that FireFox does not.
How many regular browser users ever change a setting for that browser? How many firefox users install extensions?
Microsoft realises the mose people use software out of the box, and never touch settings. They don't expect the mainstream of people wil tweak into oblivion and so they choose to make a browser which has everything as it should as default.
(This is about the same way opera does their browser. Did you ever check how many extensions there are for firefox? Are they all the same quality/stability? Do you check all those extensions once a month to see for any new ones?)
Look, I'm not trying to be a flamebait here, but simplicity is key for the most Microsoft software users. It's just that simple...
Dependency hell? =>
Of course digg posts articles faster, but at least at slashdot, most of the users aren't fifteen year old kids with nothing better to do than post comments like "Mac is kOOL!"
About the article..as for me, I'm really looking forward to IE7. For all the great aspects of firefox, it still has many shortcoming, like being extremely slow and opening the occasional webpage incorrectly.
If IE7 can offer tab browsing and do a reasonable job, I might just switch back over. If it sucks, then I'll just stick with my current browser, Opera.
From the FA: IE 7 also includes a number of new features for Web developers, including support for up-and-coming Web-programming technologies known collectively as AJAX. How would they go about supporting this? Would it have a javascript extension for it or something? Really the only thing a browser needs to do for ajax is support the xml http request object, which IE does since 5.0 (I believe). The rest is up to the server side code. or not?
Didn't Microsoft tell me about 2 years ago that their customers don't want tabbed browsing?
In 5 years they tell everyone they invented tabbed browsing years befor Opera and Firefox...
Grundgesetz * 23. Mai 1949 - 30. November 2007 - http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/
They seem to be just copying firefox, but it's still gonna be lacking in two major areas. Extensions and Security, in my opinion, are what makes firefox stand out.
But if looking at the progress between Beta1 and Beta2 I'm thoroughly impressed. The UI concerns I had with Beta1 have all been addressed. I really like where they seem to be going.
If it can't render basic shit like min-width and respect viewport positioning, I don't care. Are they CSS 1 compliant yet? As in... fully?
"I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
It looks like it takes ages to implement few useful features in IE. The same features that are many times already available for the same or competing browsers as third-party plugging or extension that are developed by one or very few geeks.
Is it that Microsoft is short of geeks? Is it so complex software that third-party developers are more effective and progressive then in-house developers?!
Anyway, why are the browsers evolving so slowly? Look where is the 3D gaming industry! Look what progress they did. And now look what progress we (browser vendors) did on the WWW! I don't think that there is less money on the web then in the gaming industry...
So why is it?
(Is the main reason the insufficient cooperation ? Don't they see that competition in this area instead of cooperation hurts everybody? Look where IE ended up with thier individual and aggresive stance.)
Well, I've got to get back to work. When I stop rowing, the slave ship just goes in circles.
http://www.ie7.com/
Where's the adblock extension for IE? Thats a good chunk of the reason I use FF over IE, just so I can turn off all the crap that I can't in IE....I might be tempted to try out IE7 at work, though....heh, I feel "guilty" using FF for looking up things and whatnot :-P
Just to save some people the bother of downloading....
http://www.reeb.freeserve.co.uk
As I was reading this article I kept thinking how MS copied these features that already existed in firefox and being annoyed how MS would get the glory for them all.
I realized at that point, I had become one of the many Opera fans who have made similar posts about firefox and how Opera had x,y, & z first.
Check out Slashdot itself. On Opera, Firefox, IE 5 and 6, it seems to render nicely. Check out Slashdot with IE7. A good chunk of the bottom overlaps all sorts of stuff. I can't read the last few lines of someone's reply if they're the last comment. Also, my website www.binaryidiot.com renders perfectly with IE 5, 6, Opera, Firefox, Safari, Konquerer. In IE7, it places the add that should be on the right, between the navigation and the content. There is a HUGE space there. For some reason I am also seeing a lot of horizontal scroll bars for many pages. Looks like I'm going to need to make even MORE server side code to make sure IE7 works correctly. This is very frustrating. I wish the rumour that Microsoft purchased Opera was real. At least then we'd have a decent browser to work with. Another thing bothering me about IE7 is all the inconsistancy. Some back and forth icons, as well as the Favorites Center icon all have jaggies on them (these are seem even more with theming off) yet the icons on the right of the address bar look flawless. Also, I'd say almost 100% of windows applications have a menu at the top. Does IE7? NO! You have the option for the class menu but then it places it between the address bar and the tabs. If you unlock the bars, you can't move it up or down. There is no setting to put it where it belongs and if you have theming on, it has some odd lines on it that don't do anything. I fear for the web
MS does seem to think the answer to any and all security problems is enabling that danged firewall. Since when will a firewall protect you from an E-Mail virus? (Not that viruses have anything "directly" to do with security all the time...) But the thing is, dealing with the windows firewall is a hassle. If I want a firewall, i'll get a router and use IT as a firewall. (which i have by the way). Hardware firewalls don't completely get in the way like software ones do.
:-D I do feel secure in using windows for the most part, but due to past hiccups it's just that nagging feeling... It's just an awfuly big target and THAT makes all the difference.
Microsofts stance on security would be best placed in tha area of finding and plugging holes. Part of me wonders: Does MS have any team of people that look for security holes in windows? Or do they just wait until some 3rd party comes out with a release about a newly discovered hole and THEN decide to fix it.
This isn't intended to bash MS, because i use and pretty much depend on their products, but it is meant to maybe gander at their priorities. As a USER of their software I probably care about MS security a lot more than the people who DON'T use it and just bash it on here.
If you open up a QuickTab page, PNGs do not show themselves correctly.
To check, look at my site in QuickTabs (www.binaryidiot.com)
1. They are requesting that developers install it and test thier sites and report back. However, it installes OVER IE6, so you can't have them both on the same machine. This is a major showstopper for a developer, since we NEED to have IE6 installed for current functionality and compatibility.
... this is just dumb. All the navigation buttons should be grouped.
... I don't understand why even some of the most basic CSS functionality is beyond thier ability to grasp. I can understand some of the more 'advanced' CSS features being a little tricky to interpret and implement, but basic positioning, sizing, padding and margin issues should be pretty easy to understand.
.PNG alpha channel transparency, and that's true ... to a point, but it doesn't work when the .png with transparency is used in a layer in some cases.
... but I beleive that they've got a long way to go in order to have a final release of IE7 that can truly compete against the other players in today's browser market.
2. Fails the Acid2 test miserably
3. They've moved the Refresh button to the right of the address bar, while the Forward and Back buttons remain in the same position
4. The "Stop Navigation" button has also been moved over to the right. They've also changed the look of the button to a red "X", so that it now looks like a "close something" button instead of a "stop this action" button.
5. They've "fixed" the functionality that allows you to utilize many CSS hacks to compensate for IE's rendering flaws, however they haven't fixed the underlying bugs that the "hacks" were intended to fix. As a result, a lot of sites I checked out that rendered just fine in all current browsers (including IE6) are now broken in IE7, because the "hacks" no longer work in IE7, but thier standards complience is still shoddy, and thier box-model still sucks.
6. The graphics for the tabs looks "clunky" as compared to other tabbed browsers.
7. They've hidden the main menu, so now you have to go through a few clicks to find the options that used to be only 1 or 2 clicks away.
Overall, I hope they don't think that this release is close to production readiness. They've changed a number of things just so that they look different, while in the process breaking a number of UI conventions that have long been established an work.
They've still got a lot of work to do in thier CSS support
They claim to have fixed
One thing I can applaud them on is that they've added the ability to use XMLHttpRequest without using thier proprietary ActiveX control, which will simplify those of us writing AJAX code into our web apps. They claim the old ActiveX method will still work for legacy support though.
So, that's my take. They've come a long way from IE6
It's not my fault! It was this way when I got here.
Really?? It failed miserably when I tried it. The pieces were spread all over the screen, some with scroll bars, and all layered in front of a big red background.
Heh ... even if you graded them on a curve, they'd still get a D, since Firefox almost gets the acid2 test right.
It quick renders Digg.com (sometimes it takes ages on IE6), but I can barely click on the One Pixel Banner.It renders Digg's HOME page fine, but click around the site, and you'll start noticing some positioning errors. Go to the "Digg For Stories" section, and you'll see some DIVs climbing over each other on the left nav.
It's not my fault! It was this way when I got here.
Mod parent up. I consider myself a bit of a software gear-head (love to try everything and the kitchen sink, tweak until the cows come home, etc) and I've stopped experimenting with the plug-ins. Most work -- by themselves! But once you get 20 or 30 plugins running, the often conflict in terms of user experience, and ultimately lead to browser instability.
Don't get me wrong...I won't be going back to IE. But I think a 'vanilla' version of Firefox or Opera is what most people will be considering, when moving away from IE. a better approach would be to 'adopt' plugins into the base code with each major release...gradually increase the featureset, that can be enabled/disabled via the default install.
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
For now, view-source sitll uses notepad. I don't know if they've any intention to change this.
However, If you want contextual highlighting on IE view-source, just replace your OS-supplied notepad with one of the developer's notepad apps out there.
It's not my fault! It was this way when I got here.
Just install IE 7 as a standalone version using the iexplore.exe.local hack. Viola, IE6 and IE7 are both available.
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." ~ Stephen Wright
Seamonkey has the functionality built in - no need to piss about with endless extensions.
The iexplore.exe.local trick seems to work for IE7.
Simply download the installer, use WinRAR or similar to unpack the installer into a folder, add an empty file called "iexplore.exe.local" then run iexplore.exe.
No having to uninstall IE6, or even install IE7 at all. The interface gets a bit messed up but it's definitely running a new engine (still some CSS bugs I can see tho, tut tut....)
My sarcasm detector is ringing. :)
However, I think your point is misplaced. MS in fact won the browser wars precisely by making it easier for developers. So much so, that even bad HTML markup was tolerated, as were many other sloppy coding practices. In the early days, sites were far more likely to "Just Work" in IE.
Nowadays, however the developer-world is re-embracing the idea of producing clean, standards complient code, and Microsoft is finding themselves in the position of playing catchup ... and tripping over themselves to get there.
If MS would indeed re-embrace "MS' long, solid history of making things easier for the web developer", but do so by rigorous implementation of established standards, then I think they could produce yet another dominating browser.
The only reason that IE hasn't lost the majority market share is because most users are too lazy to bother installing an alternative browser when the pre-installed IE6 is "good enuf" for most users. Heck, I even delayed for quite a while installing Firefox on my laptop because I use it only infrequently, and just never got around to it.
It's not my fault! It was this way when I got here.
http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=1594 60 has a video of some of the IE development crew talking. The interesting thing was there was a googl hat on the desk of the office he guy was in.
This page explains how you can run both on the same PC without needing a virtual machine. It works well for me.
http://weblogs.asp.net/jgalloway/archive/2005/12/
SCIREV.NET - fanfics,reviews & more
"Open in new tab" in the context menu?