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British PC Tax to Replace TV License?

caffeination writes "Here in Britain, anything capable of receiving live or virtually live broadcasts is considered TV receiving equipment. Because the detector vans can't actually 'catch' people watching such broadcasts on their computers, the BBC is proposing a blanket tax on PCs instead. They received several thousand responses to this green paper, ranging from the insightful to the unprintable."

16 of 441 comments (clear)

  1. Unprintable by biocute · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't get it, can't they just download the correct fonts to make it printable?

  2. Last year's news, changes a long way away by alanw · · Score: 5, Informative
    The Register article dates back to March last year.

    The "BBC Charter Review" consultation closed in May 2005. The consultation was far wider reaching than the methods of funding, never mind proposed taxes on computers.

    The changes to the license fee will not be needed until 2017.

    Who would dare to predict what a "computer" will look like in 10 years time?

    The up-to-date news is the Government Response to the Lords Committee Report on Charter Review, published on the 31 January 2006.

    This document states:

    132. We recommend that the system of funding the BBC until 2017 should be through a licence fee. We support the Government's decision to conduct an interim review of methods of funding but this should not be conducted until after the completion of analogue switch-off.

    The Government welcomes the Committee's support for the licence fee. It is currently conducting a detailed review to establish the future level of the licence fee. Since technology is advancing rapidly, there will be a further review of methods of funding during the lifetime of the next Charter.

    As stated in the Green Paper, this review is currently envisaged to take place towards the end of switchover to ensure that there is adequate time for planning and implementation should it be decided that changes are desirable. The Government will consider the Committee's recommendation that this review should await completion of digital switchover. It is worth noting that there have also been arguments that the review should happen earlier during the switchover process. The Green Paper makes clear, in any case, that the Government will retain the flexibility to alter this timing if the need arises.

    Also remember this - I once had to take a foreign friend (an American living in Switzerland) who was visiting me to the Accident and Emergency department of the local hospital. All they asked for was her name and my name and address: they never asked for any payment. It's just as strange for someone in the UK to hear that you might be asked to pay in advance for emergency hospital treatment as for an American to hear that you need to pay a tax on televisions.

    1. Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away by c_forq · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's just as strange for someone in the UK to hear that you might be asked to pay in advance for emergency hospital treatment as for an American to hear that you need to pay a tax on televisions

      I've never heard of emergency treatement requiring payment in advance. In my experiance it isn't until after treatement that they start talking about payment (for any planned visits everything is always paid in advance though).

      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
    2. Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away by DAldredge · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is illegal for a hospitals in the USA to refuse to provied emergency services due to the clients inability to pay.

    3. Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away by MindStalker · · Score: 4, Informative

      Thats because TV stations make money through commericals. BBC does not play commericals, thus the need for a tax. So the exact comparison would be Americans pay taxes through commericals, and higher prices on products we buy.

    4. Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away by Bloater · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The BBC is also required by law to provide a variety of programming and not just what is very popular. It means channel 4 gets the crap but popular stuff like "big brother", and the BBC gives us great, but virtually unheard of stuff like "the mighty boosh".

      The BBC is now providing its content online for PC viewing. As long as there is a need for the BBC online (and there currently is), I believe a license fee (read "tax") should be payable on all computers wired up and capable of decoding and displaying BBC content at an acceptable quality. If you don't have the software though, or your computer is too slow, or it doesn't have a monitor, or your network connectivity is spotty, then I don't think you should have to pay anything.

    5. Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away by mmzplanet · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is illegal for any ER to turn away any patient. EMTALA states that it is illegal to alter treatment decisions or methods based on financial considerations. You can go into any ER (public or private) and not volunteer name/ SSN, address or anything and you MUST be treated same as anyone else. If the hospital does anything to make you feel otherwise they are violating the law. Our hospital will not discuss what your co-pay is until you have been seen by medical staff (at least triaged). Even if you refuse, you are still treated the same as a fully insured/paid patient. You are even admitted if it is required. If you dont have the cash for the prescription... the hospital will provide it. They can only send you to another hospital if you have a condition that is beyond the hospital's capabilities. Even then a doctor on both ends must sign off on a transfer confirming that you are stable enough to be transported and both doctors agree its in the best interest. If it comes down to a transfer situation from an ER... you won't be taking yourself. If you do not have insurance all they can do is bill you later in the mail. I was always able to spot those who knew the system... some frequent fliers always gave a different name and never gave a SSN (or a false one)each visit. Still nothing the hospital can do to stop it.

    6. Re:Last year's news, changes a long way away by baadger · · Score: 4, Informative
      £126.50 - thats $221 USD.

      Here is an interesting quote from the TV licensing website. Emphasis is mine

      Do I need a licence?

      If you use a TV or any other device to receive or record TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD recorder or PC with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence. You are required by law to have one.
      If you receive British TV to your PC now by way of a tuner card you need a license, so I don't see why getting programming solely through the Internet should be any different.

      There have been some pretty interesting developments reported recently regarding TV and video content via the Internet with my UK ISP, NTL:

      By the way, the license _technically_ isn't for owning a TV, if you have no means to receive a television signal, from cable, terrestrial or satellite noone can force you to pay a penny and don't let anyone tell you otherwise!
  3. No, nay never! by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We pay the TV licence so fund the BBC, if they wish to develope beyond that they should raise their own funds and not charge us for it. If I buy 1 PC, 2 PCs or 10 PCs, I may never use them to watch BBC content and as such I'm paying for fresh air in effect.

    If they want to licence web content why not just make a yearly subscription service and charge for it? £50 a year for BBC programs online for up to 1 week of airing and then random "classic" shows such as Only fools and Porridge. The classic shows would sell it to a lot of people and if they make it downloadable in some way which means it's portables I can't think of a single person who wouldn't DL such content for long trips and when they're out of the country (no more need to miss Eastenders or your poison of voice).

    The BBC has been quite good to the online community, if they start taxing "innocent people" (AKA people who don't watch online content from the BBC), then they are more or less just a thief with government permission.

    --
    I like muppets.
    1. Re:No, nay never! by aslate · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It all depends how it works though, doesn't it? Instantly accusing it of being a flat tax on PCs would be the same as saying that the TV licence is a flat tax on TVs, it's not as it's per household. It would also depend on what would count as a taxable PC. A PC with a TV tuner (Already covered), a PC with internet access, a PC without internet access?

      Also, it states in the article:
      "The Government reckons changes to the license fee will not be needed until 2017"
      Well, every home should have the ability to download TV shows by then in some form or another, so it's not like you'd be taxing a large number of people for the minority that can.

      It also states that they're not just looking at taxing PCs randomly, nor that this is the only thing they're looking at:
      "In that event a fee based on television ownership could become redundant and the government could look at other ways to raise revenue, from subscriptions to taxing other access devices."

      This isn't just about taxing for internet content either, it's about the ability for the BBC to continue as an advertisement free public channel, free from the restrains of lowest-common-denominator programming like Big Brother. When the idea of a Television as opposed to a PC and souped up monitor seems laughable, the BBC won't be able to survive on TV licences alone.

  4. Only if you can receive broadcasts by ScottyLad · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You don't need a TV licence unless your television is set up to receive broadcast programmes.

    In my house, we don't watch any broadcast programmes, but we do watch a lot of DVD's, so we have a set hooked up to our DVD player.

    Recently we were getting increasingly threatening letters from the TV Licensing people, which I ignored after checking checking on http://tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp#lin k1 which states you need a licence "If you use a TV or any other device to receive or record TV programmes"

    Roll on a couple of weeks and one of the TV inspectors came knocking on my door, had a quick look at my setup and agreed I don't need to pay a license as I had no aerial and no way of receiving broadcast programmes.

    Result!

    --
    Philosopher (n) - a wise person who is calm and rational; someone who lives a life of reason with equanimity
  5. What about mobile phones? by BarryNorton · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm not kidding, there was in sensationalist article in a newspaper (so poor I'm sorry to admit having read it) today (ok, it was the Mail), saying that shops are sending the details of all purchases of phones with video capabilities on to the licensing authority!

  6. General taxation by Richard_J_N · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do in principle support the TV license, because the BBC (especially the Radio - World Service + Radio 3,4) is extremely good. However, I think that the TV license is a bad way to do it, and it ought to be included in general taxation. Reasons:

    1)The license is there as a "tax of choice". So, if you don't have a TV, then you don't pay (not even if you do listen to the radio). This made sense in 1960 - but not so much now, when virtually everyone has a television.

    2)The license collection is extremely inefficient. It involves hassle for the licensor, a draconian TV licensing authority (who make an enormous nuisance of themselves if you don't actually own a TV), and you cannot legally purchase any TV-capable equipment without giving a name and address to the retailer. [Yes, this is outrageous.] Enforcement and collection must cost a significant proportion of the total fee!

    3)With the exception of pensioners, the TV license is the same for everyone. Yet, some can afford to pay more than others.

    4)On principle: As a citizen, I have a natural right to my share of the RF spectrum - and to operate a Radio receiver!

    However, the idea of a centrally funded broadcaster is a good one: it means that the quality of output need not go into freefall in the pursuit of ratings.

    1. Re:General taxation by TheEvilOverlord · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1)The license is there as a "tax of choice". So, if you don't have a TV, then you don't pay (not even if you do listen to the radio). This made sense in 1960 - but not so much now, when virtually everyone has a television.

      Yeah well I don't use a TV at the moment and I'm quite happy not having to pay the BBC for a service I don't use. I think we should all get petrol for free from the government and they can recoup the cost through general taxation, because lets face it, 75% of it is tax and virtually everyone has a car, right?

      2)The license collection is extremely inefficient. It involves hassle for the licensor, a draconian TV licensing authority (who make an enormous nuisance of themselves if you don't actually own a TV), and you cannot legally purchase any TV-capable equipment without giving a name and address to the retailer. [Yes, this is outrageous.] Enforcement and collection must cost a significant proportion of the total fee!

      You are right there, they do send out loads of stupid letters. I doubt the overall cost is very high though compared to other forms of taxation; there are, for example, a very small number of detector vans.

      3)With the exception of pensioners, the TV license is the same for everyone. Yet, some can afford to pay more than others.

      Oh but of course, those of us that go out and work hard at making ourselves more employable, get the high value jobs and become successful should pay for those lazy good-for-nothing layabouts that sit on the dole. Pensioners have reached the end of their working lives, the rest of the lazy rabble should stump up or shut up. I'm all for working together to create a better society, I'm not for me working while the rest sit on their collective arses.

      4)On principle: As a citizen, I have a natural right to my share of the RF spectrum - and to operate a Radio receiver!

      "my share"??! Since when did frequencies in the electromagnetic spectrum become property? I DEMAND my share in the ownership of the colour RED! I have a natural right to apply a blunt force instrument to your skull until you die; however most governments have decided to regulate both the RF spectrum and murder as it is a generally held belief it is beneficial to the majority.

  7. Re:They should rebel by nagora · · Score: 4, Funny
    It worked for the US

    No it didn't.

    --
    "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
  8. Re:My thoughts by agm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why stop at a TV license? Why not cherge people progressively more for bread, milk, meat, cars, computers etc. based on their income. I mean, surely it's unfair that that rich pay proportionally less of their income on food than the poor do - right? That's the logical conclusion of such a corrupt socialist system - people are rewarded for doing poorly and punished for doing well. Quite frankly it sucks.