Mars Recon Orbiter Nearing Mars Orbit

DarkNemesis618 writes "The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, launched 12 August 2005, has nearly completed its 7 month journey to the Red Planet. At 9:24 pm GMT, the MRO is scheduled to fire its thrusters to slow it down enough to enter Mars orbit. NASA scientists are concerned about this final step for the orbiter as Mars has a history of 'swallowing' probes, orbiters, and landers sent to the Red Planet. What makes it more difficult is the delay time between NASA computers on earth and computers on board the orbiter. There is about a 12 minute delay between when data is sent from Earth to the time the orbiter's receivers pick it up, and vice versa. Because of this, onboard computers will handle the burn which adds to the risk."

Comments

Lag!

[Nosklo]

There is about a 12 minute delay between when data is sent

12 minutes!! That's a little more than the lag I got in any game I've ever played, including MUDs by dialup!!
And I live in a third world poor country!!

I think NASA should hire 3rd world old gamers, at least they are used to the lag...

Re:Lag!

[podperson]

It's just lucky for NASA that there's no difference between US/Imperial and metric time, or that might be a source of problems in itself.

Re:Lag!

[Kaellenn]

Apparently Blizzard set up their link for them--12 minute lag during the first 3 months, but they'll credit nasa with a couple of days online time to make up the difference.

Re:Lag!

[coolgeek]

One of my old bosses worked at JPL. He was in charge of navigating Voyager for one of it's planetary encounters. I think it was Saturn. Aside from some other challenges with the planet being in Earth's equatorial plane during the encounter (which greatly complicated telemetry collection), they were running all their calculations on an IBM 360 in Pasadena in the middle of August. Anyone who's been around here knows it's about 90-100F outside during August, and maybe gets down to around 80-85 at night. The 360 couldn't even plot a complete series of data before it would overheat and crash. His first task was to double the RAM, and write an kernel extension that would periodically copy the running set over to the extra RAM, then dump that out to paper tape. With the most recent tape, and a custom boot loader, they could power the machine down to let it cool, then resume the series later. They had to get the shit right, on the ground, then send the instructions to the spacecraft and pray.

Now we've got these new whippersnappers complaining about a 12 minute delay and having an advanced computer in their spacecraft that can actually control the burn. Not to mention their well cooled supercomputers that crunch all their telemetry and process hundreds of possible maneuvers in a few minutes. I never thought I'd get to be like my grandfather, but I have to say these new kids sure seem a bit soft.

Late Breaking News:

[TripMaster Monkey]

Despair gave way to cautious optimism today across the community as K'Breel, Speaker for the most Illustrious Council of Elders, delivered a statement. The statement was in response to scattered reports that the disgusting inhabitants of the evil blue planet were at last feeling the awful toll of war.

Referring to the intercepted communications from the sinister blue planet, which characterized our fair world as 'unpredictable', made references to our past triumphs as our world 'swallowing' their devices of terror, and admonishing their leaders not to become 'overconfident' in their dealings with us, K'Breel waxed poetic on the Speaking Dais, amid much gelsac-swelling:

"Gentle Citizens, today I stand before you as qurilly as a youngling in the knowledge that the hideous inhabitants of the evil blue planet are at last feeling the awful reality of what it is to make war against the Community. Even now their debased leaders are faced with the inevitablity of defeat! Rejoice with me, pod-mates! This is the turning point!"

When several of the attending citizens failed to immediately make merry, K'breel denounced them as traitors and ordered their gelsacs punctured on the spot.

Re:Late Breaking News:

[Anonymous Coward]

unsubscribe

Re:Late Breaking News:

[bobcat7677]

Classified: Top Top (I mean really TOP) Secret.

To: Commander in chief
From: Joint Chiefs/NASA liason
RE: Preparations for Mars invasion


With two robotic forward observers on the ground and 3 stratigic communications/spy satillites in the air, I feel we have established an excellent pre-invasion infrastructure.

Intelligence gathered so far indicates the local Mars authorities have intercepted and successfully translated some of our communications (they probably gained this ability through their analysis of the equiptment they previously captured). Given that they can understand our communications and are aware of our presence and activities, I suggest we start a propeganga campaign to further prepare them for our arrival. I recommend using our deep space communications relay equiptment to send the message: "Resistance is futile, you will be invaded and your resources added to ours."

End communication.

Isn't there something missing from that story?

[Expert Determination]

Isn't it supposed to say how this probe might discover signs of alien life like every other story about space in the last decade? Leaving that out is like leaving out the period at the end of a sentence.

Re:Isn't there something missing from that story?

[c6gunner]

Haven't you been paying attention? It's Saturn's moon that has life now! Life on Mars is soooo last year.

Watch play-by-play at SFN

[xmas2003]

SpaceFlightNow has the play-by-play - more exciting than watching grass grow ;-)

Catching up?

[WhiteLudaFan]

Let's see if we can catch up with the little red martians... Mars Scorecard

A few nice links to look at.

[tetrahedrassface]

from #space to /.

link to JPL Mission Control webcam http://137.78.244.28/axis-cgi/mjpg/video.cgi?camer a=&showlength=1&resolution

NASAtv coverage has begun. http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/

Realtime Dopplar radar from MRO: http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mro/realtime/mro-doppler_ lg.html

This is gonna be fun!

Re:A few nice links to look at.

[Otter]

link to JPL Mission Control webcam

For anyone expecting a view from the orbiter -- note that this is literally a webcam of JPL Mission Control. On the other hand, if you're interested in watching a bunch of balding nerds stare at their monitors, enjoy!

Slashdotting

[moehoward]

The 12 minute delay is due to the Slashdot Effect. Don't buy any of this so-called "speed of light" crap. At least the bandwidth is holding up this time. Most of the last several probes could not handle the Slashdotting and are still down. Even the article mentions this.

Computerized burns

[donour]

Haven't orbital burns been computer controlled since the beginning human spaceflight. If I remember correctly, the manual burn during the Apollo 13 mission was not routine.

It isn't really a burn, but aren't all space shuttle landing corrections done by machine as well. I seem to remember reading that the shuttle had only been landed by hand once.

Re:Computerized burns

[MichaelSmith]

Haven't orbital burns been computer controlled since the beginning human spaceflight.

There is always a mix of manual and automatic control. On apollo 11 Mike Collins manually shut down the SM main engine at the end of the trans earth injection burn, not because the system wasn't going to do it automatically but because it made sense to back up the automated system.

All the apollo lunar landings were flown manually for the last minute or so. I don't know if you include this. My recollection is that shuttle landings are generally flown manually. As is usual there may be a mix of manual and automatic control. A bit like the autopilot takes care of basic control but the pilot can retarget the landing point if he wants to.

Re:Computerized burns

[AKAImBatman]

Haven't orbital burns been computer controlled since the beginning human spaceflight.

Pretty much. On most manned craft (going all the way back to Apollo), all the crew needs to do is punch in the preloaded program number, and the vehicle will attempt to do the rest. (That's why in the movies you always see the crew pull a booklet out before attempting a manuver. It's a list of program codes.) On the Space Shuttle, new telemetry can be uploaded by the ground crews. In theory, ground control is in a better position to compute an orbital burn.

The situation in this case isn't so much that it isn't automatic, as there's very little that can be done if things go wrong. By the time you know that something is wrong, the craft may have already burnt up. Even if it hasn't, by the time your response gets there, the craft could be in a completely unpredictable sitation.

With all the problems NASA and the ESA have had with losing craft, they always get a bit tense during orbital insertions and landing operations.

Re:Computerized burns

[AKAImBatman]

All the apollo lunar landings were flown manually for the last minute or so.

Actually, Armstrong took manual control from the computer during the Apollo 11 landing. This was due to several program errors (the radar switch was in the wrong position) as well as mistakes in automatic guidance. Armstrong was advised to abort at one point, but chose to land the Eagle anyway.

My recollection is that shuttle landings are generally flown manually.

Pretty much everything up until the landing gear is released is automatic. The Shuttle could be landed on automatic, but the engineers made an intentional decision to make the landing gear deployment a 100% manual process. The reason for this is that the landing gear cannot be stowed in flight once it is deployed. Should a computer error occur, premature deployment of the gear could cause a failed reentry or undershoot of the intended landing zone.

The Russians, OTOH, had no qualms about automating the landing. The Buran Space Shuttle flew once with no crew aboard, and safely landed on full automatic.

Re:Computerized burns

[MichaelSmith]

Armstrong was advised to abort at one point, but chose to land the Eagle anyway.

I don't see that in the ALSJ. They got a quantity light but Armstrong had the vehicle on the ground within the required 60 seconds. And in any event the low quantity was a consequence of sloshing in the tanks and Armstrong could feel the fuel sloshing around by that time. He knew the gauge was wrong.

The Shuttle could be landed on automatic, but the engineers made an intentional decision to make the landing gear deployment a 100% manual process. The reason for this is that the landing gear cannot be stowed in flight once it is deployed

As a result if they have to abandon a shuttle in orbit there is absolutely no way to recover the vehicle. Sure the landing gear should have a manual arm switch (there will be a breaker for it anyway), and during a normal manual descent it could be armed 10 seconds before deployment, but there must be hundreds of things which the computers could break during the flight which would cause loss of the mission.

Re:Computerized burns

[AKAImBatman]

I don't see that in the ALSJ. They got a quantity light but Armstrong had the vehicle on the ground within the required 60 seconds.

Double-checking that, it looks like you're right. I'm probably thinking of the fact that there were several situations which called for a possible abort (including the 1201 program code which resulting in an abort during the last simulator run).

As a result if they have to abandon a shuttle in orbit there is absolutely no way to recover the vehicle.

More or less. I can't say I disagree with their decision, though. The Shuttle was the most complex spacecraft built to date. Anything that could be done to improve safety was a good option consider. I'd imagine that a new vehicle like the Shuttle would probably carry an arming switch that, once activated, would allow computer control over the gear.

there must be hundreds of things which the computers could break during the flight which would cause loss of the mission.

Yes and no. Most everything else the computer might do is recoverable. If it begins applying the wrong control surfaces, manual control can be applied. If it miscalculates a burn, mission control or the crew can override with new parameters for a correction burn. If it begins opening the bay doors, they can be reclosed. Only the landing gear is completely unrecoverable, as it is deployed with explosive bolts. (!) Thus, even under the best conditions (deployment in orbit), there would be nothing the crew could do to fix the situation.

Re:Computerized burns

[MichaelSmith]

BTW, scratch the part about the explosive bolts.

My understanding is that the landing gear is definitely one shot. It is powered by a spring which is compressed during the stacking process on the ground. I think the confusion is with the release mechanism. There is a reusable system (perhaps hydraulic) but the explosive bolts are a destructive backup. I think the explosive devices are wired to fire automatically if the gear does not go down when commanded.

After the last shuttle disaster there was some speculation that the gear may have accidently deployed during reentry. But this was disproved.

Time to break out the Metric conversion charts!!

[The_REAL_DZA]

Sorry, NASA, I really am a fan but I just couldn't resist.

Just rename it...

[jlowery]

If the Rumsfield can keep mutating the name of the War on Terror to the Struggle for Freedom (and now the Long War), just rename the Mars Orbiter the Mars Meteor and call it a day.

I Only Hope...

[Scarletdown]

I only hope that his time around, the probe will finally send back high resolution images of some of those hot Martian babes, like Dejah Thoris or Tara.

Communication Intercepted From Mars:

[Black Copter Control]

General: Be careful.. Half of these things have gotten away on us.
Lieutenant: Don't worry. It was Firtz that missed those other two. I got the beagle. I'll get this one too.

Re:Something else they are worrying about

[MichaelSmith]

They won't know with absolute certainty that everything is ok until the time has passed and the probe comes around the planet.

Its a pity they couldn't organise a relay. There are two spacecraft in mars orbit right now which can relay comms from the ground. You would think that with a few software changes and a bit of planning one of them would be able to at least record telemetry from the spacecraft as it did the burn.

Re:Good PR

[MichaelSmith]

much cheaper and safer than manned (or wo-manned) spaceflight

Says who? Somebody who doesn't want to fly? Watching stuff on TV is always safer than actually going places but I will be stuffed if I am going to waste my life doing that.

Nobody is forcing you to go to mars. Don't project your fears on to other people.

MRO command log...

[Anonymous Coward]

MRO cmd:> set engine burn -t 27.0

  Engine burn duration set to: 27 minutes

MRO cmd:> start engine burn -now

  Begin engine burn sequence: Are you sure? (y/N): y

  Have you calculated for correct distance in meters? (y/N): y

  Are you sure? (y/N): y

  Really sure? (y/N): y

  Remember the others we buried? Sure you want to do this? (y/N): y

OK here goes nothing! Hold your breath!

Executing command sequence...

PROGRESS: 15%

Re:Success determined months ago

[odyaws]

Where a mission depends on preprogrammed intelligence to orbit safely, the success was really decided months ago when they sealed it in the launcher. It's good that humans are driving it to the last second, they put their energy into it, and error checked and corrected during production.

This isn't quite true. All missions of this type do multiple software patches in flight (even complete rebuilds). Things are by no means locked in at launch. The sequences to actually execute a critical event like orbit insertion are probably uploaded sometime in the week before the event, and changes are sometimes made mere hours ahead of time. This is particularly true for deep space missions like this where no spacecraft just like it has ever flown before, because controllers typically learn critical lessons about how the bird performs in flight that need to be incorporated into the critical even sequences.

In orbit

[djcinsb]

Orbit is now confirmed. Still need to collect telemetry to determine how close the orbit is to the desired one, but things are looking quite good.

Success!!!!

[ashitaka]

The MRO is succesfully in orbit! Congrats to everyone at JPL.

It always gives me goosebumps watching these events where mission control goes from joking and chatting to pin-drop quiet just before re-acquisition of signal and then the yells and whoops of joy when they lock on.

Great stuff!

Re:Success!!!!

[DestroyAllZombies]

Well, thanks! I'm in the mission control area right now, so here's another score for slashdot. Of course the next six months of aerobraking will be the hardest, but being in orbit is fantastic.