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PS2 Controller Suit Goes Badly For Sony
Immersion Corp, which owns the patent on 'rumble' technology, has won another round in its suit against Sony. Sony's 'dualshock' controller has used rumble technology for years, and in 2005 a judge awarded $82 Million to the patent-holder in payment. From the article: "Sony's defence was the alleged nondisclosure of some of the inventions of key employee Craig Thorner. who has been a consultant both for Immersion and subsequently for Sony. But, according to the report, U.S. District Judge Claudia Wilken was unhappy with Thorner's testimony supporting Sony, given that he had also been paid by Sony, and so dismissed this line of defence."
And, more importantly, why isn't Immersion suing pager manufacturers, and the manufacturers of vibrating cell phone batteries????
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
You can pick up some prior art and your local adult boutique.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
A PS2 Controller Suit - neato!
Am I the only one who read this and instantly imagined this jump-suit that you'd wear that could maybe read your arm and leg positions to put you directly control your PS2?
Instead we get details of some bogus lawsuit about bogus stuff that we really don't care about.
Whatever happened to cool stuff?
www.sjbaker.org
Or sex toys...
But seriously, vibrators have been used for years in mining, as well as fruit picking...
http://www.clevelandvibrator.com/ (Yes, it is suitable for work- it is a company that has, since 1923, made industrial vibrators)
And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
And yet Nintendo has escaped lawsuit? I remember way back when getting the bulky rumble pak for the N64. Prior Art?
Mr. Universe: "They can't stop the signal, Mal. They can never stop the signal."
Who to side for?? Help me!! :-(
I think two words aught to help you: "root" and "kit". Companies like Immersion arn't exactly nice, but Sony is worse.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
This doesn't by any means overshadow the other hardware-related, possible causes for the delays, but might this be a contributing factor no one has mentioned previously?
-NIs
Who to side for?? Help me!! :-(
You shouldn't think for yourself. From now on, either repost what I post, or just look for my posts and reply with "MOD PARENT UP!".
Seriously though, this company isn't *totally* unknown. They designed the crap that goes in Logitech's force feedback stuff. I have a mouse with their stuff in it, and it actually seems fairly clever. It's like you can "feel" the stuff on your screen. It's a little noisy though.
We're talking about 1.37% of revenue:
FTA
In the last ruling against Sony, made in early 2005, Judge Claudia Wilken of the U.S. District Court levied an $82 million award to Immersion Corp., or 1.37% of Sony's sales of PlayStations and PlayStation-related paraphernalia. The $82 million is less than the $299 million originally sought by Immersion Corp., but the court ruled that Sony's infringement of the vibration patents was not willful and therefore not deserving of the full penalties.
Prior art. After all, women have used vibrations to heighten a sensation since at least the early 1900's
If you die horribly on television, you will not have died in vain. You will have entertained us.
--Kurt Vonnegut
I dont think Newton had a video game system or a force-feedback controller. The scope of a patent is determined by its claims, not based on what a slashdot summary says. The claims of this patent are limited to a force-feedback controller
Sony could have licensed this patent for a few dollars several years ago (like everyone else did), but instead they relied on a frivolous legal theory (inequitable conduct) to invalidate the patent. Despite attempts by numerous big companies to invalidate this patent based on prior art, no one has ever located any meaningful prior art. The only issue in Sony's case was inequitable conduct (lying to the patent office), and the only evidence Sony presented was testimony from an "expert" they paid.
Because unlike the majority thought on slashdot that goes 'All patents are extremely broad and prior art can be found in anything that remotely looks like it might use a part of the patented thing' - which is wrong - patents can include already known technology but applied in new ways, for example this would have been something like 'A electric motor induced vibration system that responds to a gaming environment manipulated by user inputs on consumer entertainment console systems and their controllers'. The prior art of, or usage in items such as pagers or cell phones would not have a standing here because it doesnt pertain to the precise grounds covered by the patent.
NB I dont know exactly waht the patent says, the above is simply an example as to how a patent can be applied to a new usage from old techniques.
Well, the DualShock controller might not represent sony much longer...
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.-TJ
Seriously though, this company isn't *totally* unknown. They designed the crap that goes in Logitech's force feedback stuff. I have a mouse with their stuff in it, and it actually seems fairly clever. It's like you can "feel" the stuff on your screen. It's a little noisy though.
This is a real bad time for Sony.
Format Wars
Xbox 360 popularity
Rootkitting CD's
PS3 delays
Ipod (yes this is bad for Sony)
Lawsuits from vendors
All this bad publicity surely can't be doing the company any good. At this point in time, the CEO would be sacked at most companies i am aware of, but it's not happening here. you have to wonder if the morale within the company is any good also. I hope their lawyers get paid well.
Nope. They patented the use of two unbalanced weighted motors in a video game controller. This was a very specific patent. Nintendo uses a single unbalanced weighted motor so they're okay. Microsoft paid the licensing fee. Sony didn't.
Xbox360 isn't doing so hot in japan because their barely moving any units there at all. Sony is like a national brand to them so no matter what the hell they charge people will buy it. For example, for big games companies charge almost 2x as much as average games over there. FFXII will be out for about $90 USD in japan.
o w+in+Japan/2100-1043_3-5992548.html
Here's a sample of XBox360 sale data in japan
http://www.craxtion.com/content/view/133/2/
Even the launch was horrid:
http://news.com.com/Study+Xbox+360+sales+start+sl
The xbox360 presence in japan is almost negligible and it's not performing particularily well in the states either. While sales are much better here it's not anywhere near dominating.
Hmmm... Pie...
I guess you could call that a double blow.
Or maybe even a dual shock! LOL!! :)
THE HONOUR OF THE KNIGHTS - CC Licensed Sci-Fi Novel
Rooting for companies with bad patents because they're going after someone you don't like is wrong. It's a direct endorsement of the current, broken patent system. (Vibration has been used for feedback for ages, though not in game controllers...)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"And, more importantly, why isn't Immersion suing pager manufacturers, and the manufacturers of vibrating cell phone batteries???? "
For the simple reason that a cell phone or a pager uses the vibration feature as a form of display, not interaction. The patent covers force feedback, not simple vibration. This is why vibrators and pagers aren't covered in the patent. Neither of which vibrate because you're controlling an entity within a video game.
You see, patents are typically pretty darn specific. Wanna know why the Rumble Pak didn't get Nintendo in trouble? Wait for it... wait for it... The Rumble Pak was an accessory to the controller and not built into it. Amazing, eh?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
I had a vibraiting game controller in the late eighties. It was called a pager.
See, I'd give my secret code to some fly hunny; then it'd rumble right before I was about to score!
They even called me a player.
I think the language is similar enough to claim prior art. :)
(FYI for anyone else thinking about picking up this game: Make sure to use a shield in the final encounter or you might play out your days with a permanent chance-on-pee to self inflict fire damage.)
You mean Immersion? Uhh, not only are they the guys who actually came up with it, but their stuff was licensed from Logitech for their devices. So what part of this don't you get. Immersion is not just some patent-whoring-lawyer-fest. They're pretty legit.
Han shot first.
The real question though is did Sony steal the actual design of Immersion's technology, or did they just say "putting two unbalanced motors into the controller would be cool"
If the concept of having two unbalanced motors on different axes is patentable, does someone already have a patent on three?
Also, if I go to my local electronics supply store, pick up two DC motors, some weights, a battery pack, and a project case and connect it all together, would I be in violation of the patent?
Sony is just about the only major remaining holdout in the gaming industry.
Just a quick caveat, in the gaming industry only Microsoft licences the patient, as Nintendo independently developed their own rumble technology that is significantly different.
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
Yeah MS is doing pretty poor in Japan (worse then the Xbox 1 if that's even possible) But they're doing great in the states... they might not have a "dominant" market-share over video games in general but they have 100% market-share of the next-gen (even Japan... there's no competition). Also the fact that you STILL can't just go to a store and buy one, and pre-orders entered before launch STILL haven't been filled in some places in the US and Europe should say something about it's popularity. In the few months it's been out in the US it's already sold more then the Xbox 1 did in it's first year.
Say what you will about Japan but Sony will have an uphill battle in the US if they wait till 07 to launch there.
Collector's Edition
Rooting for companies with bad patents because they're going after someone you don't like is wrong.
Explain how this is a bad patent.
Vibration has been used for feedback for ages, though not in game controllers.
This explanation is not sufficient. Where has vibration been used for feedback? Was it an intentional or incidental feature? Was it invariably caused by a condition or event, or was it arbitrarily triggered by an intentionally designed condition?
Better yet, since we're discussing a patent, was the vibration intentionally created by a mechanism that spins an eccentric weight? Do you know the number of the patent involved in this case? Have you read the claims?
Obviously not. That doesn't make you insigful, that makes you a troll.
As is rooting for companies with patents in general just because of a broken patent system. People seem to be pre-occupied with prejudices about the patent system that they hardly ever look at the case in question before they decide who should win.
The following statement is true
The preceding statement is false
Move from a ROTATING mass to a SLIDING mass for feedback. one magnet, alternate currents to change polarity and make the magnet move back and forth, thus creating vibrations in the controller. Oh, shit, I better patent that, QUICK!
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.