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Philips Patents Technology to Force Ad Viewing

An anonymous reader writes "According to New Scientist, Philips has filed a patent for technology to force viewers to watch the ads in a program. Basically they plan to add extra flags to the Multimedia Home Platform that would stop controls from working until the ads are finished." From the article: "Philips' patent acknowledges that this may be 'greatly resented by viewers' who could initially think their equipment has gone wrong. So it suggests the new system could throw up a warning on screen when it is enforcing advert viewing. The patent also suggests that the system could offer viewers the chance to pay a fee interactively to go back to skipping adverts."

129 of 823 comments (clear)

  1. Fine by me. by BumpyCarrot · · Score: 2, Funny

    When ads are on I go read articles on /.

    --
    Do you see what I did there?
    1. Re:Fine by me. by antarctican · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When ads are on I go read articles on /.

      I used to hit mute and do the same (or read email) until I got my MythTV box. I couldn't live without it - watching ads and tv in real time, how archaic.

      Actually, this article gives me a better idea, which as probably been thought of before, but it's new for me! Let's start thinking up technologies (like not being able to skip commercials) which we reeeeeally would hate to see come to market. Then let's patent it, and not license the patents. If these media companies can use the law to limit fair use, then I think we should use the law to limit their anti-consumer techologies. We could then make money on the side when they try to implement these techologies by suing them for infringment.

    2. Re:Fine by me. by orkysoft · · Score: 2, Funny

      They were also quite early with the CD itself :-P

      --

      I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
    3. Re:Fine by me. by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You can't get an advertising message accross very well without the audio component
      A bunch of anti-drug ads (back in the day) had no audio.

      The idea was that the ad would get dealers'/druggies attention because they're used to hearing the TV running in the background.

      In advertising, sometimes anything you can do to set yourself apart from everyone else is a good thing.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:Fine by me. by Carthag · · Score: 4, Funny

      I really like the companies that set themselves apart by not showing any ads. I can't remember what they're called though. ;)

    5. Re:Fine by me. by freakmn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can think of one. No Ad Sunscreen. I think it's kinda clever. Pretty good stuff, too. Does this count as an ad?

      --
      warning: This post is likely to contain gobs of dripping sarcasm. Consume at your own risk.
    6. Re:Fine by me. by DreamerFi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's fine, as long as Google remembers - I'm sure I can find them when I need their products.

  2. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  3. Well... by StevenHenderson · · Score: 5, Funny
    Philips' patent acknowledges that this may be 'greatly resented by viewers'

    Hard to resent something you will never buy.

    1. Re:Well... by tktk · · Score: 2, Funny
      I don't know about that.

      I've got lots of resentment to go around.

    2. Re:Well... by Cheapy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh sure, you won't resent it at all since you'll never buy it.

      But what about the masses?

      --
      Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
    3. Re:Well... by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is Slashdot. Fuck the masses!

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
  4. Gotta get me one of those by DrSkwid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A TV that won't let me turn it off when it catches fire sounds great !

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    1. Re:Gotta get me one of those by Gyga · · Score: 2, Funny

      Did you set it on fire for a reason?

      --
      I don't preview or spellcheck.
  5. next up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    a tv that realizes you've gotten up to get a sandwich and replays the commercials when you return.

    MY GOD, THIS IS PROGRESS?!!?

  6. make money fast by v1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just start a lottery, where the winner gets to beat the piss out of the guy who thought of "forced advertisement".

    A sure winner.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  7. clockwork tv chair by (chubbstar) · · Score: 5, Funny

    the next step is to simply have metallic arms come out of your chair, pin your arms down, peel your eyeballs open, and moisturize those pupils for 3 minutes.

    --
    "when you fall in a bottomless pit you die of starvation."
    1. Re:clockwork tv chair by owlstead · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, with "Ludwig van" music playing all the time.

  8. Well look on the bright side... by roadrash608 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...if they patent this, then nobody *else* will do it, and than we can all just go and not buy Philips TVs.

    1. Re:Well look on the bright side... by TERdON · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...if they patent this, then nobody *else* will do it, and than we can all just go and not buy Philips TVs.

      Unless Philips decides to license its new patent to all the other manufacturers...

      --
      I have a really elegant proof for Fermat's last theorem. If this sig was only a bit longer...
    2. Re:Well look on the bright side... by product+byproduct · · Score: 5, Funny
      In summary:
      • Patents are wrong.
      • This technology is wrong.
      • Two wrongs make a right.
    3. Re:Well look on the bright side... by myowntrueself · · Score: 5, Funny

      Two wrongs make a right is like saying "two lefts make a right"
      They don't. Two lefts means you're going backwards.


      So what you are saying, and let me make absolutely certain that I understand your reasoning here, you are saying that *three* wrongs make a right?

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    4. Re:Well look on the bright side... by caller9 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I for one take turns in increments other than 90 degrees. 2 lefts could, for instance, result in a net 30 degree right turn. In which case 2 lefts make a right and using previous submitters argument that the two are directly related, two wrongs can also make a right as long as modulus(sum(angle of wrong[1,2]),360) > 180. Assuming that wrongs are non-negative angles. It really depends on what wrongs you're talking about.

      fudge it, that was funnier before I wrote it down. Submitting anyway.

      Really though, I think TV is going to suck a lot more before it gets any better. The next steps are already coming in more inventive forms than this fast forward blocking "feature." Product placement and even diaglog about products is getting annoying. CSI:Miami features more Hummer glamour shots than you'll see in a dealership. Ever notice that those SOBs always have like 3/4" of wax on their flawless exteriors. IMHO 2-3 minute advertising windows are going away in a hurry, local advertisers are probably screwed. The big boys will pay to mix their wares into the script.

      "Hey I noticed this dead body while I was passing by in my recently polished H2, which I might add has very luxurious seating and stow-and-go third row bleaaahh."

  9. DVDs anyone? by amigabill · · Score: 3, Informative

    Basically they plan to add extra flags to the Multimedia Home Platform that would stop controls from working until the ads are finished.

    DVDs did that years ago and I've hated it the whole time. Especially after I've waited for it for previous viewings of a movie, and I'ev already decided to or not to buy that thing or watch that other movie coming soon (ie. 4 years ago) to a theater or DVD near me. Is this prior art, or do they have a loophole aroung it? Though I wouldn't mind if the threat of lawsuit over such a patent prevented any media distributors from doing any mroe of this really annoying crap.

    1. Re:DVDs anyone? by MoonBuggy · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't think UOPs (user operation prohibitions) are prior art, for two important reasons. Having skimmed the patent itself, the major distinctions seem to be that the flags are in the live broadcast (rather than a pre-recorded disc), that they encode themselves as it is recorded and that it prevents channel hopping in a live broadcast (whereas DVD UOPs only disable DVD functions, not TV channel functions).

      As another poster said, however, it may be a good thing that this patent is valid - if Philips hold a patent on the technology then it's only their equipment we need to avoid.

    2. Re:DVDs anyone? by slashname3 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the flags are in the live broadcast

      We should all get behind this and get the networks to start using this system as soon as possible! Has no one else realized that if they embed flags in the broadcast that indicate when a commercial starts and stops that those same flags can be used to AUTOMATICALLY SKIP those same commercials? This will be a major boon to home built DVR systems.

      So get out there and support this technology!

    3. Re:DVDs anyone? by DavidTC · · Score: 2

      It is flatly impossible to hand someone encrypted data and a device to understand said data, and expect it to remain hidden. We need to take some cluebats and just beat that message into anyone who tries it for the fifty-seventh time.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  10. Nice job! by shut_up_man · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My desire to buy a Philips product ever again in my lifetime just plummetted to zero. Nice work, marketing department!

    1. Re:Nice job! by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Kinda like my dvd player...

      Indeed.

      My dad decided to waste some 300 euro on a brand DVD player.. I spent approx 40 euro on some cheap no-name one (oh wait.. it has a name, Denver Electronics? whatever)..

      His player plays DVDs with all the 'required' limitations, ie, macrovision, region locks, unskippable content etc.. It has digital 6 channel and analog 2 channel audio out and s-video and rgb video out

      Mine? does all that as well, but I can disable all those things. It has a built-in 'trick' to bypass active region coding, plays virtually any mpeg1,2 and 4 video from either DVD or CD, and has nice modular firmware running on a fairly well documented microcontroller... It has 6 channel analog and digital audio out, rgb, component video, s-video and digital video outputs.

      The one and only advantage of the expensive player is that on an old fashioned CRT connected to composite or s-video, it produces a slightly better picture.

      There are also some 'brands' selling comparably featured and priced players. Interestingly, Phillips is among them.

  11. Target Market? by NatteringNabob · · Score: 3

    Just off the top of my head, it seems unlikely that consumers are going to come beating on Phillips door to get this marvelous new invention, but I guess they can always sell it to cable companies for incorporation in set top boxes so the consumer doesn't get a choice. And I suppose that eventually, they can 'persuade' somebody to introduce legislation to require TV's to include this 'feature'. It wouldn't be the first time.

  12. offensive by Yahweh+Doesn't+Exist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I hate the forced adverts on DVD. what pisses me off even more is when they aren't even advertising products, they're just forcing me to watch their "copying DVDs is piracy and is the same as mugguing someone so don't do it" bullshit. on a DVD I've just fucking bought anyway.

    stuff like this, like computer game protection, just makes it easier as well as cheaper to get things illegally.

    1. Re:offensive by cgenman · · Score: 4, Funny

      You know, if you just pirate the movie you can skip the adverts.

      Hmm... There should be some lesson in there about giving consumers more for their money, but as far as I can tell that just means more adverts.

    2. Re:offensive by Yaztromo · · Score: 5, Interesting
      what pisses me off even more is when they aren't even advertising products, they're just forcing me to watch their "copying DVDs is piracy and is the same as mugguing someone so don't do it" bullshit.

      My nieces, who are 4 years old, have a number of childrens DVDs they like to watch (Disney movies and such). These sorts of discs are the absolute WORST for forced advertisements. One of the discs they like to watch (and I forget which one it is) has a 10 MINUTE advertisement for "Madagascar" which can't be skipped.

      And do you know what the galling part about this is? They own a copy of Madagascar!. And yet, every time they want to watch this other movie, I have to stand there with my thumb on the fast forward button to get through the advertisement for a movie they already own (you can't skip the track, but at least fast forward works to get through it quicker).

      Thank goodness my nieces are generally very well behaved and patient people, and don't seem to mind (or question) the fact that I have to fast forward through these things for them. But still, if you think the DVDs you watch are bad, try pretty much any kids movie. Grrr.

      Yaz.

    3. Re:offensive by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I hate the forced adverts on DVD. what pisses me off even more is when they aren't even advertising products, they're just forcing me to watch their "copying DVDs is piracy and is the same as mugguing someone so don't do it" bullshit.

      Well, the original intention of the un-skippable sections was the copyright notice; I can at least understand that.

      Using it for ads and trailers is the abuse of the technology, and far more annoying than the 20-30 seconds of copyright notice, which I can live with. Being forced to watch trailers, ads, or anything else drives me insane.

      I don't want forced product placement at the front of my movies any more than I'd be willing to accept 'must watch' ads in my TV. I skip over the Kotex and Huggies ads for a reason; no matter how hard they try, I'm not gonna watch American Idol or Survivor; and geriatric products don't interest me yet.

      When will they learn that not all ads are relevant to all consumers? The sooner they understand that, unless they've paid me, they have no right to insist I actually watch their ads, the sooner we'll get along. :-P
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:offensive by LordLucless · · Score: 2, Funny

      The joys of VLC media player and a video-out socket.

      I'm also very fond of whoever authored my Buffy CDs, since they seemed to have somehow locked the "next scene" function on the piracy warnings, but not the "skip to scene". Much appreciated.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    5. Re:offensive by back_pages · · Score: 5, Informative
      Someone has probably already said this but you can flash the ROM on your DVD player and skip those inane advertisements. It'll also unlock the region encoding and you can play pirated movies from Bangkok or some crap like that, but I've never been interested in that.

      Mine was really easy. I had to open the case and read the model of an IC inside it, but most of the time that step is unnecessary. I just hunted the web for the flash program, downloaded it, burned it's contents to a CD, inserted the CD in the DVD player, clicked a menu or two, waited 10 minutes, and that's it.

      Now I can skip ANY FLIPPING JUNK they put at the beginnings of the DVD. That stuff drove me completely nuts, plus I found it ethically uncomfortable to cope with it in order to watch the movie I bought. It took me about an hour for the complete project (opening the case, reassembly, searching, burning the CD, and burning the ROM) and it has vastly improved how I enjoy my DVD player.

      Just a thought.

    6. Re:offensive by lendude · · Score: 2, Interesting
      One thing I do worry about is that some movie release in the future will include some kind of software/firmware update, which could break this (probably unintended) feature. Is that possible with current generation players or releases?

      Seems very unlikely that it would be done this way, as firmware updates are machine specific whilst dvd's play on any generic dvd player, and hence all dvds would need the update on them: a very inefficient distribution method.

      Unless your dvd player is online I'd say there's virtually no way a firmware update would be applied surreptitiously via generic dvd media. Don't take it to a Sony repairer tho' - it's more likely this would be a method of updating firmware whilst it's in for a repair.

      --
      "Get off the cross - we need the wood" - Tori Amos
    7. Re:offensive by Dachannien · · Score: 2, Informative

      You have to be fairly fortunate (or do research ahead of time) to own a DVD player that someone has hacked the firmware for, or that even has flashable firmware. For example, I like my DVD player - a JVC - but sadly, very few of their players have been hacked.

      While the parent poster is in good shape, the rest of you can do a search for "dvd player firmware" to get started.

    8. Re:offensive by david.given · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Someone has probably already said this but you can flash the ROM on your DVD player and skip those inane advertisements. It'll also unlock the region encoding and you can play pirated movies from Bangkok or some crap like that, but I've never been interested in that.

      My cheapo no-name far eastern piece of imported junk does all this out of the box --- for most disks, loading the disk and pressing STOP STOP PLAY will cause it to immediately start playing from the beginning of track 1, bypassing all the unskippable crap, menus, etc. It's amazingly convenient.

      It's also trivial to change or disable the region encoding, and it'll play a wide variety of different disk types, including my own badly-encoded out-of-spec SVCDs. I haven't yet found a way of disabling Macrovision, but I haven't really needed to yet.

      Remember, the Asian consumer electronics manufacturers know where the money is.

    9. Re:offensive by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The sad thing is that they think that they have paid you. By providing their crappy content for free if you watch their crappier commercials as part of the deal.

      What free? Wanna see my cable bill every month? Wanna pay that for me?

      Here's what they don't understand:

      The marketers are paying the media company to advertise their product. They may choose to sponsor a specific TV show in the hopes that a lot of people are watching that particular show, and they'll get eyeballs during that show. Or they'll choose to get as much coverage as possible and get as much exposure as possible, and just be on as much as they can get.

      But what TV shows stay on the air is (in some bizarre way) is decided like a stock market or a democracy -- if people don't watch your TV shows, your TV show goes off the air. If it's unpopular, it's probably relatively cheap to advertise in. If it's super popular, it probably costs a lot to advertise during (think Super Bowl or Seinfeld).

      One group of people make content in the hopes that people will watch it. If it's popular, the TV can get eyeballs during that timeslot, which attracts advertising revenue for the TV companies since the advertisers think it's valuable for people to see their ads.

      Note, that the advertising money doesn't go directly towards the production costs of the show. It may offset it (assuming it's the network who developed the show instead of someone who did it and shopped it around). If a network can get more money from advertising that producing/buying it cost, they make a profit, and hopefully make more TV.

      Make no mistake, the advertisers are paying the media companies for the opportunity to market to a specific audience -- usually the shows demographic of desireable consumers. They have not purchased any obligation on my behalf, nor have they provided me with 'free' content.

      If you look at some of the specialty channels, say, "The Food Network", you'll notice that higher end products are being pitched than in other contexts. This is because the demographic of who is watching that is a little better known, and includes people who are more likely to want certain products. But make no mistake, Charles Schwabb, Geiko, or whomever had NOTHING whatsoever to do with the production of any of the shows directly.

      And just because they paid The Food Network for the opportunity to market to me, they have not paid me -- nor have they purchased any obligations from me.
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  13. An old business model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Do something the victim hates and make them pay you to stop.
    It's called "extortiom".

  14. Wel... by kryten_nl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    that's it I'm going back to books.

    --
    For the perfect anti-Unix, write an OS that thinks it knows what you're doing better than you do and let it be wrong.
  15. And the average joe takes one for the team. by cephalien · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Philips acknowledges that (etc, etc)

    Well, duh. But not because I think my equipment is broken.. because the company that made it is clearly looking to get support from the people who stand to make money from all those (shiatty) commercials I'm forced to watch.

    So Philips wants to make it easier for broadcasters to force me into watching ads for stuff I won't buy anyway, and then they've the audacity to attempt to chalk up their user's (inevitable) complaints to 'improperly working equipment'.So we need to watch more crap, and we're stupid to boot.

    Har-de-har-har.

    --
    If firefighters fight fire, and crimefighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight? - George Carlin
  16. Re:OK fine by iotaborg · · Score: 5, Funny

    You clearly have not read the patent. There was something about chains, locks, and first born children in there.

  17. Cue Simpsons episode by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Remember the episode where Marge asks for the tv producers to ban Itchy and Scratchy?

    Suddenly all the kids "wake up" like the Awakenings movie, and begin playing outside.

    _IF_ this product is "successfully" imposed on the people, we'll see more and more people go away from the TV into the internet / books / games / radio / whatever.

  18. Poor choice of words by Braedley · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Philips' patent acknowledges that this may be 'greatly resented by viewers'" I don't think resented is a strong enough word. Maybe loathed, but even that, I don't think, is strong enough.

  19. yes, amazing how far we've come... by MrFebtober · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...Anybody remember those Magnavox TVs that actually detected when a commercial was playing and attenuated the volume to make them less annoying? I believe it detected the audio compression technique that commercials use to seem louder than the actual program or something like that. Now that was technology for the consumer.

    1. Re:yes, amazing how far we've come... by woobieman29 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IIRC, back in the late 70's/early 80's either Popular Electronics or a similar magazine had plans to build a standalone device that did much the same thing. It was based on detecting a sudden upsurge in volume to work automatically. It wasn't perfect, as audio tracks that had a lot of dynamic range sometimes would trip the device, but it was still a pretty cool hack.

      --
      \/\/oobie
  20. Best Idea Ever! by byron036 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And I am not being facetious. I can't wait for them to start adding flags identifying commercials to TV signals. One day later I bet there is a plugging to MythTV that perfectly edits your recordings to be commercial free.

    What with Digital TV lock-ins & broadcast flags I have no intention of ever buying mass market cable equipment again anyway. In the future all of my TV watching will be downloads anyway. This will just make it easier to get commercial free programming.

    I hope people buy these TVs like hot cakes, cause I won't.

  21. No honey... by jfclavette · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm not watching porn ! *Clicks button desperately*

  22. Another patent will prevent this by sgant · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't think you get it. You're FORCED to watch the advertisements.

    Part of this system will be eye-instruments similar to the ones used in A Clockwork Orange that keep the lids of your eyes fully open and staring directly into the screen. There will be no way of skipping the ads nor averting your eyes away from the ads.

    Of course, for a small fee you can avoid all of this.

    --

    "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
    1. Re:Another patent will prevent this by flyingsquid · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Kubrick's portrayal may be a nod to Plato's allegory of The Cave, where men spend their life in a cave, chained up and facing the wall. Men behind them build a fire and cast shadows upon the wall, and the prisoners believe that these shadows are reality because they don't know anything else.

      Kinda like The Matrix, only it was envisioned 2500 years ago. That, and Plato's _Republic_ doesn't have people floating in midair and doing cool ninja moves.

    2. Re:Another patent will prevent this by tmossman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Though I too greatly prefer the book to the film, it's not entirely Kubrick's fault. He wasn't given the complete novella to work from; the version published in America at the time lacked the 21st chapter, due to some terrible editing decision, which drastically changes the ending of the book. I used to absolutely abhor the film, but I've warmed up to it slightly over the years.

      Also, by way of interesting anecdote, Burgess was so outraged by the film and Kubrick's treatment of it that, in the musical version of ACO, which Burgess published after Kubrick's film, there is a bald, bearded, bespectacled old man, an effigy of Kubrick, who is severely beaten by Alex and his droogs.

    3. Re:Another patent will prevent this by CRCulver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Though I too greatly prefer the book to the film, it's not entirely Kubrick's fault. He wasn't given the complete novella to work from; the version published in America at the time lacked the 21st chapter, due to some terrible editing decision, which drastically changes the ending of the book. I used to absolutely abhor the film, but I've warmed up to it slightly over the years.

      What I resent most about Kubrick's changes is that he totally disregards Burgess attempt to warn about Communism. The future England presented in the novel is one where Soviet domination has succeeded by first appealing to youth. The novel A Clockwork Orange is a literary testament of the Cold War, the film is just a carnival of late 1960's fashion with lots of sex and violence for little ultimate purpose.

    4. Re:Another patent will prevent this by initialE · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course, for a small fee you can avoid all of this.

      Of course, for a fee, advertisers can override your preferences and show you the ad anyway.

      --
      Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
    5. Re:Another patent will prevent this by mdfst13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Of course, for a small fee you can avoid all of this."

      Did anyone else read that and think about what idiots they are? Offering ad free versions for a fee completely undercuts their advertising market. Think about it. Who pays money not to watch ads: people who are willing to spend money for convenience. Who watches the ads instead: people who are willing to accept inconvenience in return for cheapness. Which group of people makes a better advertising market?

      The people advertisers want to reach are the people who have disposable income and part with it easily. The exact people who do not see the ads in this scenario.

      The other thing that they continue to miss is that studies show that people have better retention of commercials through which they fast forward. Why? Because they actually watch them to see when the show comes back! By contrast, people who leave the commercials play tend to ignore the TV during the commercials (talk to others in the room; get up for a snack or bathroom break; etc.).

      Disabling fast forward during commercials is a stupid idea. The only result of this change would be a bunch of people with MythTV or a gray market commercial skipper getting perfect commercial skip.

  23. Sid Meier and my money ... by joe_n_bloe · · Score: 4, Funny

    Pretty soon it will be cheaper and less annoying to go see movies in the theater.

    I guess I'll have plenty of former TV time to perfect my Civilization IV skills. Or I could write another book.

    But Civ IV first.

    1. Re:Sid Meier and my money ... by slashname3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Have you been to a movie lately? They run about 20 minutes or more of commercials before the movie. Not just the previews they used to run, actual damn commercials. To say nothing of the DON'T USER YOUR CELL PHONE bits.

  24. Re:Changing the Channel by Slashdot+Junky · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In regards to radio, have you noticed tha channel surfing is nearly as affective at avoiding commercials with Clear Channel owned stations. In my neck of the world, Clear Channel stations seem to be in sync with one another in regards to commercial breaks and quite often play the same one at given moment. Okay, back to the topic.

    --
    .
    Landfill Mining Co.
    Managing the (Un)natural Resources of Tomorrow
  25. Philips fails to comprehend the meaning of 'own' by zzatz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When I buy something, I buy it for one very simple purpose: to gain exclusive control over it.

    If Philips wants to keep control over a TV or other device, that's fine. Give it to me, loan it to me, and I can accept that the owner keeps control over it - and I'm not the owner. But we have a technical term for selling property without turning over control, and that term is 'Fraud'.

    When I sold my previous home, I surrendered control over it to the new owner. I no longer control how that house is used, who may come and go, and which TV shows may be watched in the living room.

    It looks like Philips wants to pretend to sell me a device, while keeping control over it. That's not a sale, and presenting it as one is a clear case of fraud.

  26. TV on fire? by Ivan+Matveitch · · Score: 2, Funny

    I wholeheartedly support this idea.

  27. Re:mute by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Forget muting commercials, this is TV - when the ad break comes on, will I be able to switch channels?

    What about the advertising on the other channels that I'm missing.

    What if I am flicking around the channels (from a sanctioned spot) and happen upon a commercial, will I not be able to continue to the next channel?

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  28. I wonder if it's too late... by rthille · · Score: 2, Funny

    To patent the electrification of the fridge handle and the toilet seat during commercials...

    --
    Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
  29. Still fine by me by einhverfr · · Score: 3, Funny

    It seems likely that we have until the patent expires before non-Phillips products can use this technology without paying licensing fees. :-) Also means no open source implementations for about 17 years...

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:Still fine by me by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Eve better - now people will have even MORE reason to channel-surf. Advertisers HOPE you watch their ads, but they know that a lot of times, you're clicking away to see what's on other channels.

      And if it prevents you from switching channels? Return it as defective.

    2. Re:Still fine by me by ClickOnThis · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It seems likely that we have until the patent expires before non-Phillips products can use this technology without paying licensing fees. :-) Also means no open source implementations for about 17 years...

      We might not have to wait nearly that long before some insane law gets passed that mandates technology like this. Perhaps through some kind of back-handed method like a rider on an appropriations bill (can you say "broadcast flag?") or by bundling it with some kind of legislated DMCA control built into the players.

      Far-fetched? Maybe. But six-odd years ago, who'd have thought we'd see DMCA at all? Remember: DMCA is not about protecting copyright, it's about controlling access and I think we have yet to see all of the ways that content providers would like to use that control.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    3. Re:Still fine by me by Fareq · · Score: 4, Funny

      Since it's the Digital Millenium Copyright Act of 1998, I'd say that 6 years ago we had a pretty good idea!

      (yes, I know that wasn't helpful)

    4. Re:Still fine by me by IdleTime · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I guess you didn't read the fine print....

      There will also be a channel switching prevention built into it, so you can't switch a channel. When they want to force you to watch ads, they mean it! ;-)

      --
      If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
    5. Re:Still fine by me by Zordak · · Score: 2

      I know you're engaging in a little hyperbole, but just to be fair, there are countries that make our politicians look like amateurs when it comes to corruption. Hopeful amateurs, sure, but amateurs nonetheless. One of the best examples can be found just south of our borders.

      --

      Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
    6. Re:Still fine by me by slashname3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would acutally welcome such flags in programs. It will make it so much easier to detect and autoskip commercials in mythtv. Right now it is about 80% accurate in skipping commercials using the methods available. With actual flags in the broadcast this will be 100% effective. Very cool!

    7. Re:Still fine by me by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 4, Informative
      And if it prevents you from switching channels? Return it as defective.

      According to TFA, it does (or can be used to) stop a viewer from changing channels during commercials. (And if the show you want to watch starts during a commercial break in the one you're watching now? I guess that's tough luck.)

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    8. Re:Still fine by me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Are you Canadian by any chance?

    9. Re:Still fine by me by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You should get modded up -- that's actually an interesting way of using the flags. If Philips has a patent on using the flags to force viewing of commercials, maybe somebody else will use the same flags to skip them? That wouldn't infringe on the patent, would it?

      Of course, they'll probably only ever roll out such flags inside an end-to-end DRMed; a Roman orgy that makes HDMI look like a wet dream by comparison. You'd only be able to view the media on an approved platform, and the approved platform would then be forced to use Philips "no skipping" features. (I propose the system be given the brand name "MindRape(TM)" -- think that'll fly with the focus groups?)

      I do think though that implementing a feature like this would push average consumers towards pirated or illegally flashed equipment faster than anything else. Let's face it, Joe Consumer doesn't give a shit about playing HD content on Linux and probably won't own one of the early HDTV sets without HDMI ... but skipping commercials? Now that's a feature worth trolling through some shady businesses in Chinatown for. Why? Because it's something you can easily show off. You and your beer buddies are sitting around watching the game you TiVoed the day before; a commercial comes on and everyone groans...but with a sly wink you pick up the remote and--wham!--back to the game. That's a hell of a lot more impressive than "look, I can play imported anime!" or "I can play weird subtitled French porn!" to most people, I'll bet.

      Yes, it's sad when FF-ing through commercials is something that people will be able to get a slightly deviant thrill out of doing, like running a red light on a deserted street at night, but I think that's the future we're hurtling towards.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    10. Re:Still fine by me by jonfelder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually a lot of DVD players do this now. They don't allow you to Fast Forward the FBI warning, some even goes as far to not allow you to hit menu or fast forward through ads on the dvd.

    11. Re:Still fine by me by fireweaver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If it won't let you change the channel, what's to keep a person from power-cycling the set (with either the on/off switch or if that doesn't work, the plug)?

    12. Re:Still fine by me by sdnoob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would acutally welcome such flags in programs. It will make it so much easier to detect and autoskip commercials in mythtv.

      Doesn't Nielsen (Media Research) already have a way to encode signals in broadcasts with program & commercial identification? (used in their automated meter boxes and to track air times of commercials). I don't know of any recording devices that automatically detect those signals yet...

    13. Re:Still fine by me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How about my 12 gauge? Not like I'd be missing much.

    14. Re:Still fine by me by nytmare · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They could overlap the ad flags for a random few seconds into the programming on each end of the ad block.

    15. Re:Still fine by me by technothrasher · · Score: 4, Insightful
      They could overlap the ad flags for a random few seconds into the programming on each end of the ad block.

      That wouldn't help them really. You could still use the current methods of commercial detection. The flag would still signal you that a commercial is definitely coming up within the next few seconds or so, and greatly increase the hit/miss ratio of the algorithms.

    16. Re:Still fine by me by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 3, Insightful
      there are countries that make our politicians look like amateurs when it comes to corruption.

      On an individual basis (i.e., many corrupt individual/small groups), perhaps, but when it gets down to large-scale institutional corruption, I think we're playing with the big boys.

      Petty Third World corrupt government officials only _dream_ of being able to slosh billions of dollars around to whoever they want, without fear of discovery because you made it legal through "legislation".

    17. Re:Still fine by me by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The bottom line is that commercials give you the ability to watch content for free...

      I may be a bit differentially-centric here, but I think I must disagree. One is paying to watch, it's just that the coin is distributed rather than in an all-up fee. Part of the fee is in the products I buy that I wouldn't otherwise choose because of some out-of-band communication to my hypothalamus (pick a more appropriate bit of brain, I'm only a rocket surgeon) and the rest is in that most valuable commodity, the time I can't spend leveling my Mage.

      Half of me doesn't like commercials, half of me hates 'em. The rest of me is just plain bad mathematician...

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    18. Re:Still fine by me by CommunistHamster · · Score: 2, Funny

      What happens if you switch to a shopping channel, such as JML TV? Those things are entirely adverts, will it stop you switching the channel then? The TV would be stuck on JML TV forever...

    19. Re:Still fine by me by oshy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That system makes pirated versions more popular if they have been ripped from DVD and had that nonsense removed.

    20. Re:Still fine by me by D4rk+Fx · · Score: 2, Funny

      The poster said 6 ODD years ago... so that makes it 11 years ago, right? skip the evens?

  30. Re:Changing the Channel by jZnat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Which is why people like Sirius or iPods: commercial free. Hey, there's a concept that works! No ads + pay for content = happy customers + profit.

    --
    'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
  31. Good for all the wrong reasons by billcopc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The best thing about any restrictive technology is that it opens up the opportunity to break or work around the restrictions. If it's not region-free DVD players or modchips for your Playstation, it'll be HDMI dongle hacks and Philips adbusters.

    It doesn't matter what they do, the only people who really gain from restrictive techs are the shady people who sell the hacks and modchips.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  32. A fee? by Brad1138 · · Score: 2, Informative

    "The patent also suggests that the system could offer viewers the chance to pay a fee interactively to go back to skipping adverts."

    I already pay a monthly $80 "fee" for TV, does that count for anything?

    --
    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
  33. Here's an Idea... by Cherita+Chen · · Score: 2, Funny

    I think I'm going to file a patent that requires you to watch the Super Bowl. No longer will you be allowed to skip through the game and just view the commercials...

    --
    I'm not fat, just big boned...
  34. Text of On-Screen Warning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    So it suggests the new system could throw up a warning on screen when it is enforcing advert viewing.

    "Warning: Phillips electronics engineers are clueless asspirates. Their marketing weasels are worse. While you're watching this shit, they're busy thinking up the next stupid-ass idea."

    The patent also suggests that the system could offer viewers the chance to pay a fee interactively to go back to skipping adverts.

    Also known as extortion.
  35. Use it in reverse, to SKIP ads by sakusha · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Phillips was just not thinking clearly when they invented this. There will be a flag at the start of commercials, and another at the end, to tell the anti-skip system when to activate. Just how long do you think it will be before someone figures out how to use the flags to start and stop the fast-forward button? This system of flags would be just as effective at automatically skipping ads.

    1. Re:Use it in reverse, to SKIP ads by philsuth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I were the network I'd set the ad lockout bit occasionally during the real program for a few seconds, preferably at critical stages of the action. That'd prevent anyone using it for automatically stripping ads.

  36. Companies being paid to stay away? by Tyr_7BE · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The patent also suggests that the system could offer viewers the chance to pay a fee interactively to go back to skipping adverts.

    Pay a fee to go back to skipping adverts. I assume that this would be money paid to the content provider, who would in turn give a cut to all companies whose commercials were skipped. So the net result is that even though no commercial for Coca-Cola or what have you was seen, and no Coca-Cola product was used in the TV show, Coca-Cola still makes a profit off of the viewing of this show.

    It's win-win for the corporation, and absurd for the consumer. If the corporation's ad gets seen, they get more money through traditional marketing routes. Now, in places where their ad DOESN'T get seen, they get money too. We are effectively unconditionally throwing money at megacorps.

  37. This will be great! by Dormann · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My MythTV will be able to remove commercials much faster once there's a flag showing where the ads are.

  38. Your rights are going away by suv4x4 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    - No ripping to a PC; excuse: piracy.
    - No shooting of copyrighted objects with a camera; excuse: piracy.
    - No open formats such as mp3; excuse: piracy.
    - No skipping ads and copyright ads on DVD's or TV; excuse: piracy.
    - Fetch your seearch history and habits from search engines; excuse: piracy/child porn/terrorism.
    - Back door on cryptographic solutions for the government; excuse: piracy/child porn/terrorism.
    - Storing your e-mail and traffic for later review by the authorities; excuse: piracy/child porn/terrorism.

    We're looking for further excuses to install RFID chips under your skin, and electric zappers to control your actions, stay tuned.

  39. Re:This is EXACTLY what's wrong with America/Th wo by labnet · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You ask a very interesting question.
    How does one award the content creators.

    Remember, in a capitalist society, 'market forces' are meant to regulate the efficiency of the market.
    If you restrict or charge too much for your product, the less people buy, and if you give it a away, your volumes are high but you make no money. Its the profit bell curve.

    Previously, cost of duplication/distribution has been one of the main regultators in the content creation market. There is now a disruptive technology (the internet) that is taking away this previous 'stabiliser'. What we are seeing now is the free market, trying to recorrect its inefficiency (loss of profits). This will always cause pain. What suprises me, is the internet is huge opportunity to make squillions more money out of consumers (can you say back catalouges peoples!) though much increased volume and less cost per unit item.

    This I think is where the RIAA etc have got it wrong. 99% of people want to do the right thing. 99% of western consumers do not steal from their local store. Even in Australia now, we have 'self checkouts'.
    If the RIAA were run Kmart/Walmart, all the product would be behind glass locked cabinets.
    Treat the consumer with respect, offer the product at a much more reasonable price, and people will generally do the right thing.
    The problem I see, is that the RIAA etc, have played hardball for so long, the consumer has got quite adept at (and cultured themselves) to using P2P, AllofMP3 etc, making the battle to change that culture much harder than it needed to be.

    --
    46137
  40. This has an easy answer... by sjs132 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I let my wallet speak for me when it comes to this crap...

    I won't buy a philips product if it enforces viewing of ads...

    Or anyone else's product of like features...

    This is why I DO NOT have Tivo and do NOT watch much TV.
    Heck, Most of the time I still use my VCR to record any "MUST SEE TV" - (c)NBC And just FF through commercials... Unless it is one I WANT to see (heard from friends after souper bowle or some such reason.)

    No, My computer is not an 8088 either, but yes, sometimes lowtech is the way...

    oh, and of course there is the famous (Click) surf or (Click) off buttons.

    If Phil & Co were smart they would make note of this... It's ashame that I already skip going to the movies because they force you to watch adds after purchasing a license to experience the content of the film in comfy seats with loud surround sound.

    But then again, I don't think I've missed toooo many movies that were worth seeing anyways. :) Bleh!

    --
    --- Relax, that mass muderer is just trying to reduce our carbon footprint, one fetus at a time...
  41. Every year we are closer to Max Headroom, no? by netik · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's a lot going on right now in television that resembles what happened on the Max Headroom television series. A dystopian future where the people who don't pay for education can't get it (even things as simple as the ABC's, but we're not there, YET), intellectual property controls, corporations the size of governments with the same amount of power, and even this patent by phillips was part of an episode.

    There's a scene where an officer walks to a woman's apartment, pushes the off switch on the TV and exclaims, "An off switch! She'll get 20 years for that!".

    Ah well, It's primetime and it's time for dancing poodles on TV. Gotta go.

    Blank is beautiful!

  42. Finally by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is what I see happening:

    - The companies that sell these devices leave out the part about them forcing you to watch commercials.
    - A huge amount of people buy them.
    - Less than a month later, customers get pissed off at the company and return the devices to wherever they bought them.

    After loosing tons of money over this, the companies finally realise that they have to listen to consumers.

    Of course, this would only happen in a perfect world. Something is bound to come up that will prevent people from receiving refunds or something of that matter.

    --
    -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
  43. Turning the system against itself. . . by TripleE78 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Oddly, I kind of want them to get this patent.

    If Philips ties the idea of forcing ads on those of us with their equipment, it keeps everyone else from doing the same without licensing the technology.

    Might as well enjoy the handful of accidental benefits of the borked patent system. . . ;)

    ~EEE~

  44. brilliant by ChrisGilliard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This idea goes exactly against what successful companies like Google and Overture are doing. This will totally turn off consumers to anyone who implements this. Good luck.

    --
    No Sigs!
  45. Re:tag the commercials by AdamTheBastard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why bother hacking a TV when a DVB card can do it for you?

    If they do broadcast a (don't skip the adds) flag I'd be surprised if the MythTV backend wasn't updated (within a few hours of the first boardcast) to strip that content from the video files as it records them. Or even better just pausing the record while the flag is present.

  46. Quality of TV is in the toilet anyways. by cdn-programmer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We have over 900 channels all largely showing the same crap and the same re-runs. I see little reason to even have a TV.

    This will be yet another reason for people to (1) not buy the product and (2) find something that meets their needs - which may be a home grown product and (3) cancel their cable or satelite subscription as well.

    Oh they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions - this isn't even a good intention.

  47. So much for surfing. by theJML · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Philips suggests adding flags to commercial breaks to stop a viewer from changing channels until the adverts are over.

    So I'm surfing through channels, click, don't want that, click, nope, click, nope, click, nope, click ADVERTISEMENT and I'm stuck. I have to watch the add according to this until it's over and then i can go back to surfing to find out there's nothing on. Now THAT will suck.

    --
    -=JML=-
    1. Re:So much for surfing. by mce · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Who says that only active zapping can get you trapped? Suppose I'm waiting for a program to start on channel A, but that channel is right now just drivelling away. So I decide to watch at the at least somewhat interesting channel B "until time has come". One minute before I intend to switch to channel A, channel B initiates a 5 minute block of ads. Then what?

  48. Prior art. by edunbar93 · · Score: 4, Funny

    And I quote:

    "Where I was taken to, brothers was like no cinnie I ever viddied before. I was bound up in a straightjacket and my gulliver was strapped to a headrest with like wires running away from it. Then they clamped like lodlocks on my eyes so that I could not shut them, no matter how hard I tried."

    Sorry guys. This has already been done by the guys who made A Clockwork Orange, circa 1971.

    --
    "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
  49. Infomercials by Xayma · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Will flags be constantly on during infomercials? Since they don't have ads throughout it could be quite a problem if channel surfing and you stumble across one.

  50. Hmm, lets patent more terrible stuff by TheLink · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If we are going to be stuck with patents, can someone form an organisation that patents the evil stuff and makes it extremely expensive to do?

    --
  51. Piracy as retaliation by JudgeFurious · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Exactly. I buy a lot of DVD's but I also rip a lot of rentals too. Every time I learn of some bullshit scheme like this the numbers rise on the ripping side. As things stand right now I rip a lot of the ones I buy anyway to make "disposable copies" while protecting the originals.

      When I rent a movie and rip it to make a keeper is it stealing? I guess so but I don't really care at this point. They hack away at my rights and in return I hack away at their profits.

      Sure I'm not right but neither are they. They might be "legal" but that doesn't make them right.

    --
    Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
  52. Re:Emigration? by Yaztromo · · Score: 2, Funny
    How did you get into Canada? How much did it cost?

    I was born here. I guess the cost would be whatever you would value a broken condom at, in early 1970s dollars :).

    Yaz.

  53. Blatantly ignorant by back_pages · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Slashdot reporting is persistently blatantly ignorant on the topic of patents.

    1. You cannot "file a patent." You file an application, and you that application can be anything you damn well please. You could file your local telephone book if you like. Tell Slashdot you filed your phone book as a patent application. It will be all over the headlines and you'll be famous for "patenting the phone book," although anyone with 22 seconds of experience working with the patent system would know that statement is unquestionably false.

    2. The article itself links to "the full patent" which is unquestionably not a patent. There is literally no story here.

    It's not like this is funny - an application for sex toys or resurrection machines. It's not like it's morally offensive - an application for a suicide machine. It's simply an application for a way to make some money. Sure, people might not like it, but any idiot who can force people to watch advertisements is a marketing genius. Whether or not it's fit to be patented is another story altogether, and one that won't be answered for years. The 371(c) date of that application is June 2005 - it probably won't even be glanced at by a patent examiner until 2007 or 2008.

    This informative post was brought to you free of charge. Sorry for the interruption. If you scroll down (or up), you'll read the normal Slashdot non-sequitur deliberate ignorance that brings you back to this website time after time. I just wonder if anybody but myself gets tired of reading systematically false and erroneous "news" reports on Slashdot.

    1. Re:Blatantly ignorant by commodoresloat · · Score: 2, Funny
      It's not like it's morally offensive - an application for a suicide machine.

      Actually, I find this far more offensive morally than a suicide machine.

  54. Re:Philips fails to comprehend the meaning of 'own by Chrondeath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think this ship sailed when corporations realized that the average consumer doesn't care what their software EULA says. You certainly don't own any software you've purchased, and the idea is starting to migrate to other things....

  55. you also have to enforce the patent in court... by gd23ka · · Score: 2, Informative

    or else it wont do you much good. This is why Illuminated Business Microsun Inc. aka "the industry" patents everything from the mouseclick to "organizing data on a means of retaining state over long periods of time in organizational subunits of variable or invariable size"). To them a $10,000 is as much as a dime to you. However when they want to cash in on their patents (or to squeeze you and everybody else out of business), if you don't fold like a good boy they take you to court over these patents and sue for infringement and of course damage. You know what happens in court, I don't have to tell you, now do I.

  56. This is how it could work... with a quiz by gd23ka · · Score: 2, Funny

    They show you the commercials and then in order to view the next segment you have to
    answer a quiz about the commercials that were on. If you fail the quiz you have to watch the commercials
    over you failed on. Questions could be as easy as "Why is XYZ so yummy!" Answer: Ad slogan to
    difficult question like "Please mark the commercials that showed a dog".

    I just got this idea from a science fiction story I read as a kid where people lived in a society where
    they had to attentively watch the evening news - or be severely punished for missing them. The "News Police" would
    ring doorbells at random and give pop quizzes. I'd say a rather scary thought, especially with the implication
    that you have to be home after 8pm so they can check up on you.

  57. Re:Also in the works... by modecx · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...said one Phillips executive as he vanished in a cloud of his own vomit.

    So, if he were a vampire, would that make him Count Barfula?

    Or maybe he'd be Count Bulimia! Oh noes! Look out! It's Count Bulimia! He strikes fear into 7-Elevens, all-you-can-eat-buffets, ice cream aisles and toilets everywhere!

    --
    Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
  58. Why would Philips do this? by sbaker · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't understand why Philips would do this. They make TV sets and VCRs and DVDs and such - but they don't own TV stations or cable networks so they don't profit from advertising. All this would do would be to make people not want to buy their equipment...where is the profit motive?

    I used to work for Philips Research Labs - they encourage employees to patent stuff - but that doesn't mean that they intend to make products that use the patent. Often they just want a large pile of patents to threaten other companies with - or patents may be defensive in nature. (There is a great story that Philips made a PacMan clone on one of their game consoles years ago - and just like every other company in that business, they got sued by Atari over it. Everyone else caved in and paid up - but Philips dug out an incredibly ancient Magnavox patent that covered the use of TV sets for synthetic video entertainments of all kinds...Atari dropped the law suite - but Philips didn't ever use their broad patent offensively. So defensive patents - when used ethically - are not necessarily a bad thing).

    Anyway - it's very dangerous to assign motives to a company due to some random patent.

    Personally, I can see a hidden advantage here. If the TV can lock out the controls when there are adverts present - that means that there must be some kind of flag embedded in the advert so the TV can recognise it. This flag would be a wonderful thing because it would mean that someone could use that very same flag to cause a PVR to skip over the advert completely automatically!

    --
    www.sjbaker.org
  59. Re:Changing the Channel by Hao+Wu · · Score: 2, Informative
    Which is why people like Sirius or iPods: commercial free.

    Everything started out ad-free. Every communication medium, including radio, tv, the internet...

    --
    I suggest you read Slashdot
  60. I like it by TheSloth2001ca · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Personally I HATE it when people channel surf during the commercials... I always end up missing the first 30 seconds of the show after each commercial break

    --
    Just another crappy blog
  61. Contracts by zzatz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yes, I do own software that I've purchased. I don't own software that I've licensed. The distinction is a contract.

    A wide variety of restrictions and conditions may be included in a sales contract. But a contract requires that all parties to the contract understand and agree to the terms in advance of the exchange of value. I've licensed software under a true contract, and was required to read, understand, agree, sign, and date that contract before I received the software or before the vendor would accept my money.

    If you buy retail software, that's an ordinary sale, not a sales contract. If you gave your money and received the software, then the transaction is final. No EULA revealed after the fact of the sale changes the nature of the sale. Click-throughs and sealed envelops do not represent agreement, because the time for any agreement passed once the goods and money changed hands.

    That's why the average consumer doesn't care what the EULA claims. They understand that the typical EULA is a fiction, that a so-called License Agreement lacks the one true indication of agreement: acceptance of the terms shown by the exchange of value. The deal is done when the exchange is made. The terms are those that were disclosed and agreed to in advance of the exchange. It's a simple concept, even children understand agreement must occur before the deal is closed, and changes after the fact are not binding.

    There have always been, and will always be, those who profit from creating complication and confusion around business transactions. Some swindles and frauds are illegal, some trickery and sharp practice is just inside the law. But it's all dishonest.

    If Philips discloses, in advance, that others will keep partial control of the device, and buyers read and agree to those terms, then I have no problem with such informed consent. Just as I can sell my house with the condition that I will have the use of it for the rest of my life. The price will reflect those terms. What I can't do is agree to sell, take the money, and then later tape a notice on the front door that entering the door indicates acceptance of additional terms. It's the buyer's door once I take his money, and he can do whatever he wants with it. It's no different than taping that notice on every door in the neighborhood. I can claim it, but my claim is without merit.

    1. Re:Contracts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Click-throughs and sealed envelops do not represent agreement, because the time for any agreement passed once the goods and money changed hands."

      It depends on where you are. In the USA sealed EULAs are binding. In Scotland they are binding. In England and Wales they are not binding. Click throughs have not been tested in England and Wales, but would likely be binding. What you think should happen and what the law believes is allowable are not the same thing.

  62. Re:Also in the works... by arose · · Score: 2
    Why is this even a story?
    So we know what to avoid?
    --
    Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
  63. Re:Changing the Channel by Guppy06 · · Score: 2, Informative

    With satellite radio, just the opposite: Sirius' "no ads on the music channels" stance forced XM's hand, who had to drop the (few) commercials they had among the music channels to compete.

    "No commercials" really is one of the big selling points for satellite radio, and the providers know it.

  64. I know you're joking but by commodoresloat · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This is capitalism, folks. Free markets demand freedom of advertising, and anything that stands in the way ineluctably promotes communism. This includes popup blockers, bathroom breaks while watching television, even being able to blink -- freedom of advertising is the only thing that stands between the free world and the collectivist nightmare of places like North Korea, China and, um, Sweden. So technology that forces ad viewing is essential to modern capitalism and free markets. Ad-blockers -- whether using fancy computer programs or more simple popup blockers like your eyelids -- destroy faith in the free market.

    Besides, technology that forces ad viewing can also be used to force the viewer to listen to long diatribes read from Atlas Shrugged.

  65. The advertising death spiral by igb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Look at what's happened in the UK to telephone advertising. We have the TPS now implementing the EU privacy directive, which is like the US `do not call' registry but with teeth. No exemptions for politics, charities, pre-existing relationships, and real sanctions against transgressors. Combined with XD I get about one junk call a year, and the same's true for the >60% of the population who have signed up. So the call centres are left chasing those that haven't, and as their call volumes rise, people become motivated to also sign up. It's a death spiral for outbound telemarketing.

    Now TV has a similar problem. There just aren't the channels that will deliver 20m. Dr Who got 8.5m on Saturday night, and ~10m is about the maximum anything will get. The young middle classes, to whom you want to advertise, are off watching BBC3 and BBC4 (no adverts) or surfing the web or down the pub. The more you try to lock such people as _are_ watching TV into seeing your adverts, the more you will encourage them to do something else. And people with money, or with technological chops, or with alternatives (ie the very people you want to see your adverts) will flee first. You're left with a desperate weight of adverts pressing down on one poor sod in a long-term ward in Scunthorpe.

    I'm always amused by empty shops with pounding music, who assume that as they have X customers at 90dB they'll get 2X customers at 100dB. Er, no: the people who have the money can't stand the noise, so turning it up loses you business. Same principal: you need to think outside the box, not just turn up the volume.

    ian

  66. don't gripe by Jim+Madison · · Score: 2, Insightful


    if you were smart enough, you would have patented this idea to prevent anyone else from doing some so utterly disrespectful of other people. The best part about patent submission, is that you just have to come up with idea and you don't have to actually make it. Seems like a good fit with /. community.

    Any ideas for such patent submissions?

    --
    Hey democracy lovers, add Quorum as a c
  67. Patentabillity practice by lightweave · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I always thought that patents should protect original ideas to cover for the expenses that are required for research. When I read patent proposals like this, they are a prime example for what patents should NOT cover. I mean, how hard do you have to think to come up with a flag like this? Basically this is already done in games, to skip cutscenes, only the other way around. I really don't see why a patent should be granted on such trivial ideas. That completely defeats the purpose of patents.
    I have no problem accepting patents for stuff where a company actually has to invest money and months or years of work, but ideas like that ar so trivial that you don't even have to think more then two seconds to come up with this solution, if somebody describes this "problem" to you and how you could resolve it.

    The only good thing this may have is, that you would have a reliable advertising flag. This was already in that older stream (forgot the name) to automatically program VCRs but no channel used it. Since this flag most certainly would be used, you could cerate a counterdevice, that does the opposite, unless it is not protected by some stupid laws.

  68. Re:I know you're joking but - reply/rant by iamcf13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well said commodoresloat!

    Of course the antidote for commercial interests would be to simply put out non-annoying, conscise, informative, even entertaining ads like they did in the early days of TV (where it was mostly product placement within the sponsored shows).

    Or make em all like minimovies like The legendary 1984 Apple Computer ad.

    Now that's how to do an ad!

    The only other ad in the same league would be the (in)famous Where's the Beef? ad for Wendy's with the late great Clara Peller in it.

    By comparison, the new ad series for ask.com Googlelike search engine interface is just plain tiresome.... :P (>_<);;;

    Had the producers juxtaposed the ad content/message with 2001 somehow properly, tastefully, and with the blessing of Stanley Kubrick's estate, they would have had an ad classic on their hands.

    Oh well, missed opportunity.

    All TV watchers aren't mindless sheeple....

    Unfortunately, the advertisers are convinced that most of them are.... :(

  69. Patent This, Somebody by tillerman35 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Walking down the Path of Evil to the Ultimate Precipice of Slippery Slopeyness:

    I've had this idea for a long time. Instead of making you watch a commercial or making commercials louder to make them harder to ignore, you get the choice to watch the advertisements or not. But before you can proceed to the rest of the content, you have to have some interaction with the set to make sure the advertisement made an "impression."

    Examples:
      - Click the advertiser's logo (logo moves so no auto-clicky)
      - 4x4 game of "concentration" to match logo, product, company name, etc.
      - Multiple-choice questions about the advert
      - Click on character "talking heads" from the advert to make them reiterate parts of the message
      - Characters act out a bit, then you get to choose "should Clara (a) Use Brand Z to bake her cake or (b) use SuperMix Cake Mix- with Real Cake Bits(sm)!" then react appropriately to your choice.

    The possibilities are endless. Make it entertaining enough (and short enough), and the "user" (aka the "used") won't mind much at all.

  70. [offtopic] in soviet russia masses fuck you by Blue+Stone · · Score: 2, Interesting
    > In Soviet Russia, the masses fuck you.

    Truer than you realise:

    SECRET LUST OF REDS IN THE BED Will Stewart In Moscow

    RUSSIAN Communists passed a law to "nationalise" all wives, it was revealed yesterday.

    They complained: "All the best species of the finer sex are owned by the bourgeoisie which inhibits mankind's development." And they passed an edict entitled "Nationalisation of Females" which meant women were no longer "owned" by husbands.

    The edict, which amounted to officially-sanctioned rape, declared all women over 18 State property. Men were allowed sex with any of them but not more than three times a week and only after giving proof they were from working-class families.

    Full details of the shameful 1919 edict in a district of remote Simbirsk emerged only after a telegram from revolutionary leader Lenin was discovered. In it he told his secret police: "Strictly check and if confirmed true arrest culprits. We need to punish the [bastards] then announce it to population."

    The decree-makers were shot by the secret service and the women returned to their husbands.

    Historian Ivan Sivoplys, who discovered the telegram, said: "Children born as a result of this revolutionary sex were to be raised by the state.

    "But angry women wrote to Lenin, who came from the region, and demanded he stop the law."

    Russia is this week marking the 136th anniversary of Lenin's birth.

    Source Article
    --
    Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce