Slashdot Mirror
ThinkFree Online Review
ThinSkin writes "ThinkFree Online is, simply put, Office without the Microsoft, a collection of free online apps that support and contain most features found in Word, PowerPoint, and Excel. ThinkFree has just released a major upgrade to its features, bumping its online storage to 1GB for each user and adding a lightweight AJAX-based collaboration feature. ExtremeTech has an interesting review of ThinkFree Online's applications and features which reveals a lot to like about this improved webware and, while it may have its occasional quirks, can be great for those who want to edit and create documents on the fly."
I wasn't really expecting much when I saw this article. "Yay, another 'web' application." I must say, though, that the screenshots accompanying the article are extremely impressive. I'm sure if you put both Microsoft Office and ThinkFree in front of a user (the secretary/receptionist where you work, for instance), they wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.
Even with today's high-speed connections, it is definitely faster to edit a document from a web interface compared to downloading and installing OpenOffice. I will be using this site when I am out and about and not near a computer with MSOffice/OOo.
Registered Linux user #421033
Think Free appears to be down for now, but at 7:00am PDT, you'll (apparantly) be able to have a look
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
WHERE are the tag-clouds? I was promised TAG-CLOUDS!
*sulk*
Meta will eat itself
Businesses are never going to use them because of privacy concerns, plus they are unusable if you cannot get online. Maybe they have some other purpose, but as replacement for full blown office suites they are a joke.
Now, this is the right use of AJAX..
I'm tired of seeing projects on the web that worked perfect earlier pumped full with useless AJAX features just because thye can.
If works as good as it looks I will definitely try this out!
Scully: Should we arrest David Copperfield?
Mulder: Yes we should, but not for this.
You know, if you are a part of extremetech, at least mention it in your summary. The writeup makes it sound like he just bumped into this site one day and found an interesting article.
Am I the only one tired of seeing software moved onto the web? I can understand email, since it needs to be accessed everywhere, but word processing? With hard drives reaching the 750GB level, what purpose do online only application serve besides easy access? I also hear talks about whole OSs stored on servers where users have to logon. Guess what, if the server goes down, you are screwed. It's much better to just bring your laptop and keep a backup of current working data on memory stick just in case (Not that word documents are large to begin with).
.02.
Seeing as how Microsoft Office is faster compared to slim the competition, who wants to waste time with downloading online applications for home use? If you're on the road and need some documents stored on a central server you can easily use gdrive to store it. It just seems that everyone can't wait to have their entire computers stored by some big information gathering company.
Just my
ive been using thinkfree.org for about a year now after having tried openoffice.
i simply cannot fathom having to install Office ever again unless it is for macro/VB integration.. and it definately leaves OpenOffice miles behind in terms of proper Office compatibility and change of workflow.
thank you thinkfree!
-Sj53
If you all read Tucows ( http://www.tucows.com/article/844 ) you would have seen this last MONTH.
is the wording on a banner currently appearing on the thinkfree web site. Am I the only one feeling nervous about having my documents residing on an application service provider where their accessibility is beyond my control?
--
Code Quality: The Open Source Perspective (Addison-Wesley 2006)
You actually have to do work when you have ... no connection? [Cringes and hides from constantly wired /.ers]
"Tu fui, ego eris" - Virgil
Once the Telcos own the internet, how long will things like this be convenient to use?
All it takes is a golf game between Gates and a few Telco CEO's, and suddenly ThinkFree has really really low bandwidth. Really low.
I don't know if this is threadjacking or having the insight to connect two apparently unrelated issues. I'll let the mods decide.
What is the primary reason why MS Word is a bad idea? Everyone here knows the answer: closed format. If MS decides to take their marbles and go home, your documents may be unrecoverable [1]. You don't put your critical information in a closed format, because if you do the owners of that format own you.
This is at least five million times worse because you don't even have the closed format documents yourself, they're stored on *their* webservers. They go down? You don't have your documents. They go out of business? You don't have your documents. They decide to cancel your account? You don't have your documents. Also, legally, are they even your documents? How does copyright enter into this, if you write something on their servers, which is stored on their servers, can you really claim exclusive ownership?
I cannot imagine a worse idea.
Hard drives are big these days, putting a word processor onto your computer is not difficult, nor even costly since OpenOffice is free. This system *will* go down, all systems do eventually, and when it does I will do nothing but laugh and say "I told you so, but you wouldn't listen" to the suckers who suddenly find their documents unavailable.
[1] Yes, I know OO.o can read Word format, currently. Who's to say what the next release will bring, no?
"Mission Accomplished" -- George W. Bush May 1, 2003
After they announced "web" version again (1.0 was running in IE/MS JVM) the old timer thinkfree using people said "It is finally, really free".
You can't believe that joke for a not-so-popular poor java program. It was everywhere including mac download sites.
Joke? "If it is thinkfree, why it is not free?"
You would see thinkfree using people trying to explain what "think free" means endlessly.
I hope it finally ended... Oh wait, the downloadable version! OK, not giving further clue.
When you do get to look (I haven't yet), be sure to look for signs of vendor lock-in. The only thing worse than an office suite like MS Office, which stores stuff in a proprietary format, would be a website doesn't really reveal the storage mechanisms at all.
Personally, I like my work to be mine, or to be free to give to anyone I want to donate that work to, regardless of what technology they can afford. It's my work, and I should be able to say what can be done with it.
Unless this thing lets me save my work in OpenDocument Format, I won't be touching it.
Actually, IMAP lets you access your email everywhere, WITH a proper mail client, or with a little systray applet (or mobile phone, or whatever) that checks for new mail. There's really no need for webmail at all, except to give advertising opportunities to ISPs as you read it.
BSOD!!! Quick! Somebody call the help-desk, I've got to have this report by noon! Whatever do we do!
/.rs would hate to jump over to their FREE (as in speech) site and find it unaccessible. End users accessing with some sort of subscription model (or better yet, behind-the-scenes funding) would never expect to see such a screen with the possible exception of a major service outage, which could be likened to a power blackout.
Okay, so way over the top for us, but have you really never had to tell a friend/cow-worker/whom-ever that 'in order to get rid of that blue screen and get their mouse back, for the short term, they need to just turn the computer off, "push the button in front" and turn it back on, then call you back if it does the same thing'?
How exactly is this different for the average user? Yes, we
2^3 * 31 * 647
I could just see Al (David) Hedison's head on the fly's body, his voice squealing, "Heo-yope meeeee..."
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
you inform me of a truly useful and intresting website, and before i can even blick 2ce the site is slashdotted, and theres not even a link to it in the article!
Noone writes jokes in base 13!
A lot of people are grumbling about the fact that this is an internet based service. Why couldn't this be run on a corporate intranet instead?
I was about to try a quick "reality check" test, namely seeing whether ThinkFree could properly render and edit the actual Microsoft Word document I am actually working on right now. Not a deliberate stress test, nothing very fancy, no equations, but, yes, some style sheets, some tables that would lose all usefulness if not rendered with reasonably high fidelity (including some shaded in boxes, some split and merged cells), and quite a few strategically placed manual page breaks, so the document will be more or less ruined if font metrics and margin settings aren't handled accurately.
The site says it's "unavailable from 3 a.m. to 7 a.m. on April 25th."
Well, it just so happen I need to do some work on this document soon. (Actually, of course, I should be working on it right now instead of reading Slashdot).
Guess what? Microsoft Word is available from 3 a.m. to 7 a.m. on April 25th.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Two or three years ago, when powerpoint files were sometimes hard to decrypt on macintoshes without MS software, I tried almost everything available around, and concluded that the Thinkfree Office of that time, a downloadable, paying, set of java scripts, was the best around.
I enjoyed it for more than one year before Apple's Pages appeared and was faster and as good.
Is it still the same ThinkFree Office? They don't have a downloadable version anymore?
(my old one still works well here)
Hervé
Herve S.
IANAL but speaking from a US centric view, any piece of information thats hosted on servers not within your personal control, is much more easily accessed by the government than documents on your own personal hard drives. The standard for personal search and seizure is much much higher than for a corporation. Recently lets take a look at Google and AT&T. Google handed over some personal information after mounting a defense, but they still handed it over. AT&T is just dumping all internet traffic to the government so get favorable treatment elsewhere. The more I hear the less like about these online services having so much personal info. I won't be using more than I absolutely need to.
Getting things done at work is hard enough when the email or internet connection goes down, but there is still a lot we can do because we can use Office. However, if we did not have Office, but were relying on ThinkFree instead, whenever we (or ThinkFree) had network problems, we would be completely crippled. Now, it may seem like a good thing not to have any work to do, but sitting around for 8 hours doing busy work is mind-numbingly boring. ThinkFree was down for several days, and I'm sure with it being posted here it's going to go down very soon, if it hasn't already.
We had this exact same thing happen when we moved from static HTML pages to a CMS. Before we could use Dreamweaver (or another program) to work on the pages and then upload them later. Now we are using a CMS with a web interface, so if the network goes down, we can't work on the site.
It's great when it's up, but if you need something free, just stick with OpenOffice. Web-based applications seem like a great thing, and in many ways they are. However network connections are too unreliable to, well, rely on them.
Meh, give me vim and tex anyday (and yes, I used to use Emacs, whatever). It doesn't take me long to install, or much space to store my documents as gzipped .tex files. I've also got a wonderful little script (aterm -title micro_word -e sh -c "antiword \"$1\" | vi -") to execute on .doc files from within a browser. .doc format. This is obviously stupid, but as long as she's still got the version of word she wrote the doc on, we can get it back - no biggy. I'm a big open source proponent, and closed source/closed formats are dumb, but this isn't why. Internet applications that still use a stupid format are not the solution
I'm aware that there are non-geeks out there. My mom uses Word. My mom's net connection is also often flakey... what a dumb idea. Microsoft could pack it in someday, but, to be honest, this won't be an issue. Mom was running win98 until earlier this year. Many Biology journals only accept
If MS decides to take their marbles and go home, your documents may be unrecoverable
New office format is based on XML. It may not be the Open Document Format (or whatever its called) version of XML, but it is XML and a published standard.
http://www.microsoft.com/office/xml/default.mspx
It's Office without the macros, without the plugins, without the Exchange integration, without the underpinnings of COM. It's basically Office without the selling point. If I wanted a spreadsheet to be literally just a grid with formulae, life would be so easy. I don't, of course; I want it to reference other sheets, to populate itself with data from the database, to have the occasional button that makes stuff happen elsewhere on the sheet, to host third party libraries or controls, to do the stuff that spreadsheets do. That's what Excel does, that's the value it delivers, that's what it brings to the table, that's what makes it worth putting up with.
The reason people use Office remains the simple fact that a competing product has not yet appeared. And with ThinkFree's attitude, it won't be them. They didn't include macros because they are 'platform dependant'?? They're not 'platform dependant'; they're just 'something that's harder to do when you decide your Excel clone will be running within a Java application server'. Not the same as 'platform dependant', but I bet the ThinkFree guy that said that has half convinced himself of it already. So I'm bearish on ThinkFree today.
Ok, my comments are cranky. But some overselling is going on here, you know.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
ThinkFree Online is, simply put, Office without the Microsoft I guess if your plan is to be MS without being MS, then they have something. Being that 99.99999% of computer users don't give a hoot which brand of software they're using, it's a weak marketing point. Not to mention, if it flies, MS will have a web version available before you can say ThinkWho?
a collection of free online apps that support and contain most features found in Word, PowerPoint, and Excel
That's why reviews shouldn't be made by people who can't find the differences between WordPad and Word to save their life.
At least, I have access to my files. But, I'm using the old 2.0 app... not the beta web front end. Not to pick nits, but thought I'd mention it since everyone is jumping down their throat on the web service availability issue...
Hosted, or with the option of implementing my own server. Hmmm...A Web 2.0 company doing it right.
I would like to know if the server software is available for others. It is only practicle if the site is up all of the time. "High availability" means a lot when it comes to documents and business. Regardless, this sounds like one of the coffin nails I've been searching for.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
Microsoft office IS the office pacakage to beat
:)
And no one has done it....yet..
---
Excel and Word have no real equals.
Powerpoint - does anyone use any other presentation software?
Outlook - fully featured Email/work management client for exchanage (evil m$ tie in, but u can use it with imap now)
Access - Database for people who dont understand databases used by millions yet critised extensivly. Yet there are no other real alternatives to access.
The weak parts of office are FrontPage/Publisher these just suck ass. But everyone know that
----
I like open office. Hopefully it will develope into a real condender soon. It is close in excel and word, and mircosoft are damaging there office product (everything after office 2000/XP sux) so they may yet catch up.
... try to look busy. You might do a screen capture of actual work to use as a background later to fool casual glances.
As an aside, the desktop screen capture is my favorite pc prank. No harm done, but confuses the heck out of someone returning, clicking away, and nothing happening (minimize the taskbar for maximum effect).
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
they say you need to think free---well gee OpenOffice is Free,so is Jedit, FreeBSD---wow most of the stuff I use is free. Thanks for reminding me to Think...speaking of I think your website can not be used as if it goes down anytime I---oh I duno need to get something done i'm SOL
... its now too busy to view even the hopepage. "The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to too many connections. We apolize for the inconvienience. Please try again later." But, what happens if I click "Save" and this happens ?!?
, , , , , karma elon
here
- I don't need to go outside, my CRT tan'll do me just fine.
For sum reason SUMPRODUCT() doesn't seem to work, e.g: SUMPRODUCT((A1:A10=B1:B10)*10) in excel would give the number of matches in the range A1:B10 (i.e: A1=B1, A2=B2, etc) and multiply them buy 10 - thinkFree just gives #VALUE!
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams
Statistics Canada has designed an online application to gather census data from Canadians in May. Lockheed Martin designed the software. There's a big gaping privacy concern right there, but you're wrong they aren't going to use it anyway.
Oh You POS
We already have a pretty good idea what happens when a web-based technology competes with its desktop equivalent: email.
Yahoomail, gmail, et cetera compete with Microsoft Outlook & that ilk. Both types of email flourish, Fill-In-Your-Reasons-Here, each stealing some market from the other but also expanding the market.
Why would not a similar situation obtain with wordprocessings?
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
I'll stick with OpenOffice thank you. Online app's dont work. Do you trust the net?
I've tried writley icell and Googles customized homepage and find them all slow as molasses.
The nomachine testdrive service is faster and you get a real desktop into the bargan. Where can I sign up for such a service.
davecb5620@gmail.com
It's still the case that someone else holds your document. That they can peek any time they want to. That they can show your document to anyone else they want to. They can loose your document, they can just prevent you from using your own document.
Oh you might have laws and agreements that are supposed to constrain them but employees can act badly. Possestion is 9/10ths of the law.
There are a fair few doom laden messages here today that have ignored this slaient fact. I now use gmail and yahoo together for email and calendar - I did experiment with evolution but in the end, the benefits of email from anywhere without thinking about it or remembering to sync, copy, backup or whatever is just great.
...
I use a wiki to do work in a similar fashion as this thinkfree business. I get wysiwig layout, great searchability and output to pdf whenever I need an emailable copy. Is is down much? The odd router upgrade, sure. Is it down more than the fact that I used to keep leaving documents on drives that were not accessible to me? Nope, not even close. I dunno how I lived without it.
Granted it's a shell account so I am setting the privacy parameters but the other concerns are equally there - but they don't worry me because I am employing a "reverse backup strategy". That is to say, my data is hosted over there but a regular backup xml version of the site (it's Confluence by the way) get's copied over and I can import that into a new Confluence instance in a matter of two clicks (or transform it into plan text if I need to)
Docs, whether word or oo are not for me
The real benefit of web applications will be seen once they hit the desktop in a true way.
More so than the decentralized nature of web apps, the core benefit is cross-platform usability. HTML, Javascript, and hence AJAX are pretty well standardized. This makes them an easy platform to develop on, with widgets supplied by the OS, and most underlying message passing supplied by the HTTP/REST protocol and basic AJAX implementations. This mode of development is quickly bridging the development hurdles and benefits of lower-level application programming (even as far as hand-coding customized interfaces -- and let's face it, drawing contexts and pens and the like are not fun) with the benefits of a fairly simplistic markup language and programming interface.
The problem, of course, becomes the inherent client/server nature of web-apps. This needs to change. There are two paths for resolution.
First, an application like "thinkfree" would be a great asset to an Intranet. Their selling point should be centralized document management on a controlled server. No, transmitting potentially confidential data over insecure lines to a non-trusted server is not the goal. The goal is to create such an office suite that can be purchased/licensed to corporations as a centralized solution. No longer do you have to keep clients updated with patches and workarounds. So long as the browser works, so can the user. This is to great benefit of corporations.
The second problem cited is that of offline use. I take my laptop on a flight, per se, and want to bust out the latest and greatest TPS report. With no connectivity, I'm left with an old office suite or, god forbid, notepad/textedit/vi/emacs/LaTex/etc. Whatever. Not exactly user friendly, not exactly professional, and exactly NOT the type of thing that will happen in a corporate environment. The solution here is to have the ability to supply client/server "packages". I download "thinkfree.webapp", execute it, and instantly my computer boots up, looks for a remote server, can't find it, and starts a local server of the software, and my browser connects.
Updates could be automatic upon reconnection to the Intranet. Documents could be stored in a local "draft" folder, much like writing e-mails over a flight, and saved to the remote server when reconnected to the proper network. Source code for the application backend could be compiled down to machine code for the appropriate architecture, or even a lightweight javabeans implementation. At worst, if the application wasn't completely robust, it would be a few hours before I am capable to VPN back into work and have a functioning interface.
This is basically returning to the terminal server days, but with some key differences. We have pretty graphics, usable interfaces, a standardized method for markup that has built in security and robustness. We have very well researched and realized load-balancing schemes, a built in capability to shift processing load between the server and the client, or amongst different servers. Document management (read: tracking, revision control), collaboration. All built in to the software.
This CAN work. This WILL work. It simply will not work in an Internet-only form. We need Intranet deployable, and imminently client-deployable duplicates of the same package. This is the future of web-apps.
P.s., just for the flaming, XAML might be another way to go, but I don't know much of anything about that.
OMG, before signing up, I usually take a quick scan at the privacy policy, and I'm usually disgusted by the legal terminology that's used to try and explain to someone how their privacy is being protected. This was by far the most readable, straight foreward, 1 page privacy policy, that I think every company/website should take after.
click here to read it
Is anyone else really FSCK'n annoyed by these web site or web service review postings to Slashdot that don't bother to post the damn URL to the fucking web site?
Would it have been so difficult to add
http://www.thinkfree.com/common/main.tfo
or even just http://www.thinkfree.com/ to the post?
Are we not allowed to look at the web site until after we read whole damn review? (Extreme Tech does not mention the URL for what they are reviewing until the very end of the review. Plenty of other URLs are in the rest of the review...)
Me uses vi to write CV.
Then unix2dos it (or whatever utility does the conversion).
Name the file "My CV.rtf"
Send it to the employment agencies.
I have been gainfully employed for many years and my CV has never been sent back.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.