Final Fantasy XIII Announced At E3

Thought it's not terribly surprising, it's nice to hear. Final Fantasy XIII has been announced for the PlayStation 3. It actually sounds like there will be three separate titles: A traditional RPG, a mobile game, and a 'versus' title. From the article: "FINAL FANTASY XIII. They pulled a serious bait-and-switch on us. Sword-and-gun-wielding heroine who looks like Yuna, flipping her way around a high-tech, futuristic world ... Motomu Toriyama will direct the game. And apparently FFXIII isn't the only game coming out of this universe--there's a, uh, mobile game too. Oh. It's Final Fantasy Agito XIII ... Final Fantasy Versus XIII?" Additional announcements include a new Crystal Chronicles and Dragon Quest for the Wii, and a Final Fantasy VII universe title for the PSP.

Comments

My first reaction

[Crimsane]

Does anyone else feel a little ripped off every time they buy a new sequel to a game called "final fantasy"?

Re:My first reaction

[0racle]

No.

Re:My first reaction

[FinestLittleSpace]

I found a perfect solution to that feeling; I've never bought one :-).

Re:My first reaction

[spun]

No, because I don't expect them to be in any way a sequel. And because I've only ever bought one, FFX. Yet I still understand that these games are not sequels. "Final Fantasy" simply means it has cactuars, chocobos, and some random guy named Cid in it.

Re:My first reaction

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Does anyone else feel a little ripped off every time they buy a new sequel to a game called "final fantasy"?"

I read somewhere that you don't actually have to buy a Final Fantasy title when it comes out. It's sorta like that 'suggested donation' sign in front of the museum.

Re:My first reaction

[0racle]

Interesting you say you don't expect a sequel then say you only ever bought the one that had an actual sequel.

Re:My first reaction

[Anonymous Coward]

They're still sequels, but they're actual non-rehashes. You've been "unspoiled" by much of the rest of the gaming industry.

Poorly worded? Heck no.

Re:My first reaction

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel a little ripped off every time I take the time to read a Slashdot comment just to find out that it's yet another doofus trying to make a joke about the "Final" in "Final Fantasy."

Re:My first reaction

[spun]

No, sequel implies some kind of sequence (notice the similarities between the two words?) There is no sequence in the final fantasy games, they all have different characters and worlds.

Re:My first reaction

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Crimsane's point was that it's called Final Fantasy, and yet there's all these sequals... if it were Final, then that would be the end.

Re:My first reaction

[0racle]

X-2 was a direct sequel to X. It had Yuna and Rikku with another new main character. Many of the characters that were in X were secondary characters in X-2. It takes place about 1 year after the defeat of Sin.

Re:My first reaction

[ReverendLoki]

Does anyone else feel a little ripped off every time they buy a new sequel to a game called "final fantasy"?

Such is the stock witty remark made by every other person who doesn't care for the Final Fantasy series. Seriously, I've heard this "original" comment from no fewer than 20 different people.

Like most things, there's actually a reason and a story why they name a seemingly unending series "Final". Wikipedia has a nice summation, which can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_fantasy#Overvie w

Or, for those who don't feel like following a link:

Square Co., Ltd. first entered the Japanese video game industry in the mid 1980s, developing a variety of simple RPGs for Nintendo's Famicom Disk System (FDS), a disk-based peripheral for the Family Computer (also known as the "Famicom," and known internationally as the Nintendo Entertainment System). By 1987, declining interest in the FDS had placed Square on the verge of bankruptcy. At approximately the same time, Square designer Hironobu Sakaguchi began work on an ambitious new fantasy role playing game for the cartridge-based Famicom, inspired in part by Enix's popular Dragon Quest (known to some in the United States as Dragon Warrior). (At the time, Enix and Square were separate companies; they did not merge until about 17 years later.) Sakaguchi had plans to retire after the completion of the project so he named it Final Fantasy because it was his final game, although it was also going to be Square's final game. In fact, it's commonly believed that the game was named Final Fantasy because of Square and not Sakaguchi, although Sakaguchi himself has confirmed it was named because of his plans for retirement. Either way, Final Fantasy turned out to be far from being Square's or Sakaguchi's last game. Final Fantasy reversed Square's lagging fortunes, and became their flagship franchise.

Re:My first reaction

[iced_773]

That's why it was X-2 rather than XI. It actually was a sequel. I think spun is trying to say a change in Roman numeral does not imply a sequel with FF.

Re:My first reaction

[Krush3r]

There were none of those three things in the first final fantasy game.

Re:My first reaction

[Shadowruni]

It's called Final Fantasy becuase the original creator, Square designer Hironobu Sakaguchi, had planned to retire after making the game (also because Square was on some REALLY thin ice finacially). However as we all know this isn't how it turned out.

Re:My first reaction

[Stormwatch]

Interestingly, it's the same reason behind the name of Tecmo's Dead or Alive.

Re:My first reaction

[0racle]

They themselves said they only bought one. I would be more inclined to believe they did not know X-2 was an actual sequel as opposed to the way every other FF has worked. It was named X-2 because there already was an 11 (released) and 12 (in development) as it was being created. You couldn't really have 2 FF11's could you.

Re:My first reaction

[iced_773]

Okay, then it was named X-2 rather than XIII, or XIV now if you want to be so technical. But I should hope everyone got the general idea the first time.

Re:My first reaction

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly. No.

  I think I got little more than simple satisfaction after playing Final Fantasy brabra(Main series).

Re:My first reaction

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a "sequence" related to the actual gameplay of the titles. It does evolve each time, but they rarely drop everything and start anew.

Re:My first reaction

[Anonymous Coward]

Its funny because I would feel ripped off due to the games being complete peices of shit.

Repetitive, drawnout, simpleminded gameplay makes me cringe just thinking about it.

The cow is been milked to death in the 80's. Now they're just using what comes out of the ass.

Re:My first reaction

[static0verdrive]

I guess no one got your joke. (for the record: I laughed)

Re:My first reaction

[sharkey]

Mr. Crimsane, this is the most blatant case of false advertising since my suit against the film "The Never-Ending Story".

Re:My first reaction

[wheany]

No, everybody got the joke. It's just that everybody has heard the joke before.

Re:My first reaction

[KDR_11k]

Yes but be careful, few people would understand that motivation for shoplifting.

yay

[Sinryc]

Yay for 13 being official. I can't wait to see somre more screenies.

Say it ain't so!

[Enderandrew]

They were working on FFXIII? Shock of all shocks! I'm curious if this game will deviate from the horribly cliche route of FFXII and give us something unique and compelling like FFVI, FFVII, FFX, etc. If there is a versus mode, I hope the gameplay is akin to something like Final Fantasy Tactics as opposed to the "I play myself while you watch" FFXII.

Re:Say it ain't so!

[spun]

If there is a versus mode, I hope the gameplay is akin to something like Final Fantasy Tactics as opposed to the "I play myself while you watch" FFXII.

That comment could have been made much funnier with the proper insertion of a "with."

Re:Say it ain't so!

[Enderandrew]

But Microsoft doesn't want us to play with ourselves any longer. They keep insisting that it is good to play together.

Thirteen?

[Anonymous Coward]

What happened to the "There will only be Twelve" statement?

Re:Thirteen?

[the dark hero]

i seem to remember that they have some kind of contract to make fifteen final fantasy games. i have to remember where i read this.

Final Fantasy "Whatever"

[remembertomorrow]

Not to troll, but are there any other game "series" where every (well, almost every) installment features a completely new plot and new characters?

Sure, I've played FF7 and FFX, and they were quite good, but honestly, how does this stuff get marketed so successfully? It seems like nothing but hype to me...

I really can't see kids getting excited about ALL new characters.

Re:Final Fantasy "Whatever"

[Anonymous Coward]

Chocobos are the key.

Step 1: Chocobos
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Profit!

Re:Final Fantasy "Whatever"

[Adriax]

You're complaining about this NOT being a cookie cutter sequel?
Jesus, who do you work for, EA?

RPG Support for Wii

[A Brand of Fire]

While I didn't really care much for Crystal Chronicles, the news of a Dragon Quest title intended for the Wii is awesome; not just because the DQ series has been good, but also because this means that some good RPGs will be available for Nintendo's new platform. Quite looking forward to that, actually--more so than yet another Final Fantasy title of any kind for any platform.

Final Fantasy just hasn't been the same since Sakaguchi-san left Square. And Nobuo Uematsu, for that matter, but I'm glad to see they're still working together.

Re:RPG Support for Wii

[Enderandrew]

I'm sure this makes Nintendo fans happy, but I didn't think the first Crystal Chronicles game was particularly great. I didn't get to play it proper-4-player style, but none of my friends own GBA's. Almost everyone I know has a PS2 and an XBox, but I'm the only one I know personally who has the Gamecube and GBA as well. Too bad they both gather dust.

I think I'll pass on Crystal Chronicles 2.

Re:RPG Support for Wii

[knn03]

It's hard to say what CC2 will be like based on the GC version. It may have a totally new control scheme, especially that it's an action game. We'll wait and see.

Re:RPG Support for Wii

[Gogo0]

I just hope that it is a real DQ game and not another offshoot from the regular series like the GBA/DS keep seeing.

Re:RPG Support for Wii

[Anonymous Coward]

Look at the game title. It is going to follow the style of Kenshin Dragon Quest.

And you know what? THAT FACT KICKS ASS.

Wii is officially at the top of my to-buy list. You hear that, developers? The TOP.

Re:RPG Support for Wii

[Nazmun]

I'm just sad that Sakaguchi's mistwalker studios has signed up with MS as I don't imagine it will have very many high quality eastern rpgs other then what they make.

Ah the glory days of the snes, psx, and ps2... With a few exceptions most rpgs were made for these systems.

Re:RPG Support for Wii

[KDR_11k]

CC was supposedly pretty fun with four players. Either way, I'd expect CC2 to be a big improvement over CC1, which was prety much a tech demo with nice graphics. I'll wait for the reviews but I don't think it'll be as bad as CC.

don't forget about FFXII

[cascino]

XIII could be exciting, but everyone in the US should be very excited about FFXII coming to these shores later this year. I have imported the Japanese version and it is one of the greatest games in the FF series. As an aside, I have played FF games since the first on the NES and, like many gamers, I was not very enthusiastic about the FFXII demo disc that was released here last November. Forget that. XII is a great game and you have a lot to look forward to.

If you're interested in reading more specific details about XII, read my spoiler-free import impressions of the first 15 hours of gameplay over at ufck.

Re:don't forget about FFXII

[geminidomino]

XIII could be exciting, but everyone in the US should be very excited about FFXII coming to these shores later this year.

Err, no, I think only those who are Final Fantasy fans (and didn't think the demo was comparable to boning a wood chipper) should be excited by YAFF.

Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[Valdrax]

Not to troll, but are there any other game "series" where every (well, almost every) installment features a completely new plot and new characters?

The Dragon Quest series.
The Tales series.
The Grandia series.
The SaGa series.
The Wild Arms series.
The Shining Force series.
The Atelier series.
The Breath of Fire series (even if there's always a Nina).

In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of console RPG series that has had more than 2 games where the games actually are sequels: The Arc the Lad, Lunar, and Ys series are the only I can think of.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[cascino]

Good point. It's the fact of the matter that sequels are actually harder to make than completely new plotlines, because there's no easy way to deal with all the equipment/experience/magic/statistics/etc. gathered by the end of the first game at the start of the sequel.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[ReverendLoki]

I want to say The Legend of Zelda series, but even then only a few act like sequels from a previous episode. I'm not sure if someone can put 3 or more of those games in one coherent in-game timeline or not. Link to the past acted as if the NES games didn't exist, story wise, and Ocarina of Time seemed to ignore the NES and SNES games. Majora's Mask seemed a bit like a sequel to Ocarina, but almost more by chance. I haven't played any iterations for handhelds or GameCube, so I can't say there.

I think we might have better luck on this if we open the floor to prequels as well.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[remembertomorrow]

Ah, I had completely forgotten about the Breath of Fire series (probably because I don't follow handhelds, or play imports). Thanks

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[ElleyKitten]

I want to say The Legend of Zelda series, but even then only a few act like sequels from a previous episode. I'm not sure if someone can put 3 or more of those games in one coherent in-game timeline or not. Link to the past acted as if the NES games didn't exist, story wise, and Ocarina of Time seemed to ignore the NES and SNES games. Majora's Mask seemed a bit like a sequel to Ocarina, but almost more by chance. I haven't played any iterations for handhelds or GameCube, so I can't say there.

Link to the Past was meant to be about the ancestors of the NES games (the original box said so) and Ocarina of Time got its storyline from the Link to the Past prologue. Majora's Mask takes place between the Young Link and Adult Link storylines in Ocarina of Time.

The other games could be put into the timeline, but they're a bit of a stretch.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[Yosho]

To be fair, the first three and second three DQ games are interrelated. Only 7 and 8 have stood alone. A number of the Atelier games are related to each other, and Breath of Fire 1 through 3 are also related (even though we're not given exact dates on the timeline).

Also, all of the games in the Suikoden series are related, as are the .hack and Xenosaga games. The Seiken Densetsu games are also loosely related. I'm sure there are more, that's just off the top of my head...

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[0racle]

console RPG series that has had more than 2 games where the games actually are sequels: The Arc the Lad, Lunar, and Ys
Just to add one, Xenosaga has 3 parts or it will do once the 3rd is released.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[ElleyKitten]

Good point. It's the fact of the matter that sequels are actually harder to make than completely new plotlines, because there's no easy way to deal with all the equipment/experience/magic/statistics/etc. gathered by the end of the first game at the start of the sequel.

I dunno. I was annoyed at first that Yuna in FFX-2 didn't have any of the l33t skills I got for her in FFX, but I quickly forgot about that as I realized it sucked in many other ways.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[TooMuchEspressoGuy]

And here I was just about to post this. :)

I'm about 30 hours into the first game at the moment, and I plan to pick up the second soon after I'm done. Excellent console-style sci-fi RPG.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[NuShrike]

Genso Suikoden 1-4 centered around 130 storied bandits.

A core of them survive and stay around into the next sequel, and you can load the previous game's savegame so that those core characters would be more buffed up than usual either in characteristics or items.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[Admiral Frosty]

I was under the impression that at the end of the original, Link was sent to a bunch of parallel universes. This was really apperent in the Oracle of Time and Oracle of Ages. They where very similar games, even with identical charaters. It's just a lot easier to say that Link (and possibly Gannon) are now timeless entities floating around and doing battle in any of a hundred alternate universise.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[Anonymous Coward]

Every single Breath of Fire game has been released on a home console in the U.S., in English.

Are you in Europe? If so, did they really not localize some of them?

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[geminidomino]

I always thought it was just a "retelling of the legend" type thing, where it's actually the same story, evolving with each telling. You know, like real legends work.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[Yusaku Godai]

If you like Xenosaga, do consider seeking out a copy of Xenogears if you haven't already played it. I've enjoyed Xenosaga quite a bit, but I get the feeling that a great many of the plot points have been thrown out there just to please the Xenogears fanboys like me, and that none of it's gonna make a shred of sense in the end.

Xenogears on the other hand, while it got horribly rushed in the end, it was at least created in a cohesive manner, and didn't undergo numerous plot rewrites like the Xenosaga series has.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[alexgieg]

One series (actually, an umbrella of media products) which has everything connected and happening to the same characters is, IIRC, PoPoLoCrois.

You have some console RPGs (3 in sequece if I'm not mistaken), then a TV series that continues from where the last RPG left, then another RPG that continues from where the TV series left, and now a PSP game. But I'm not sure, it has been a while since I've seen the TV series and searched for info on it.

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[KDR_11k]

The Oracle games and Minish Cap are made by Capcom and I wouldn't consider them as more than the corporate equivalent of "fan fiction".

Re:Most console RPGs are this way, in fact.

[Gattman01]

It's the fact of the matter that sequels are actually harder to make than completely new plotlines, because there's no easy way to deal with all the equipment/experience/magic/statistics/etc. gathered by the end of the first game at the start of the sequel.

Actually Suikoden 1-3 was nice that you could load your save from 1 into 2, and your save from 2 into 3. The characters that you could recruit again weren't as powerfull as they were when you finished the other game, but they are still leveled up with some of the same equipment.

Oblig Simpsons Quote

[Anonymous Coward]

...this is the most blatant case of fraudulent advertising since my suit against the film, "The Never-Ending Story".

Episode: The New Kid on the Block

Re:Oblig Simpsons Quote

[KDR_11k]

Why didn't he sue over the book?

No.

[Valdrax]

Why, do you feel like the game would be more valuable to you and more fun if they didn't make anymore games after it?

Besides, if you're still buying Final Fantasy games by the 13th game, and you feel bad about it, then you've got some kind of weird self-abuse issues.

They're not sequels, they're an RPG trademark

[ObligatoryUserName]

Final Fantasy is a strong brand amongst the current gaming mainstream (different from the general population mainstream) because they have consistly been some of the most emotionally aware games (they actually try to have an emotional impact beyond surprising or scaring the player).

For people who judge games solely on how fun they are to play minute to minute, the brand is weak. For people who have estabilished an emotional connection to Final Fantasy, the brand is strong and that's why they sell a lot of copies. They have established loyalty beyond reason. Good for them! It makes it easier for them to sell their games.

I only bought FF 1 for the NES way back when and Tactics for the GBA; I would have gotten 7 but the PC demo scared me away with long boring animations. So this is an opinion based on how other people talk about the games rather than first hand experience.

Where's the Plot!

[KefabiMe]

Some buddies of mine were chilling around watching Advent Children the other day. We were lamenting about how Final Fantasy VII blew our minds early on in the game, and kept blowing our minds up until the end. That game instilled a sense of *wonder*, and many late nights were spent just wanting to play a little bit more to find out what the hell was going to happen next! The game before that, Final Fantasy III (or VI for you purists), had a great plot line as well.

However, every single Final Fantasy since then has been good, but *not* the awe-inspiring series we remember. Even the Final Fantasy movies were more about being pretty than about the actual story. The last Final Fantasy I played through was Final Fantasy X, and I always had a feeling that Square was more focused on kick ass cutscenes than having a kick ass story. ='(

Here's my wish list:

• Final Fantasy III (VI) being redone with awesome graphics, but with the EXACT SAME CHARACTERS AND STORY LINE! I just want to see how that awesome game could look on the PS3, Wii, whatever...
• Final Fantasy VII redone with updated graphics, but with the exact same characters and story line. I have almost no confidence that Square can make a truely AWESOME *story* anymore, rather than just a good story.
• Fire their current writers, hire the old ones or some fresh talent, and focus on PLOT and CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. If someone starts talking about how cool some CG cutscene could look, CAN HIS ASS.

I want *great* things for Final Fantasy, I really do. But it just seems it is past it's prime. It's become a money maker for an already rich Square rather than the epic story they used to make when they were a smaller company and closer to bankruptcy.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[vga_init]

Final Fantasy III (or VI for you purists)

I wouldn't call myself a "purist", but I gave up a long time ago trying to decide how to refer to that game. The only obvious choice was to call it VI. Why? Because there is only one game called Final Fantasy VI. If you say III, your audience has to decide whether you are talking about VI or III. You either have to shoulder the risk of them not knowing what the hell you are talking about or waste the time to explain to them which game you're actually talking about.

I suppose you could specify III(US) or something fancy like that, but VI is so much easier to type, and easier still to say. :)

Re:Where's the Plot!

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting points about FF7 and CG sequences, considering that FF7 was sold based on the fact that the CG was pretty. FF7 marked Squaresoft's move from making plot-based games to pretty graphics games. And why not, it was their most successful Final Fantasy title to date. Hell, they even suckered people into buying MORE CUTSCENES for it in the form of "Advent Children", a movie that's managed to somehow score a 40% fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes. It's that high because they have a total of six reviews, and the two ones counted "fresh" are one star shy of being counted "rotten".

They stopped being plot-based entirely when they created the terrible, terrible Final Fantasy movie. They also went essentially bankrupt and were bought out by Enix, in a move that managed seems to have scuttled any creativity left in both companies.

They've released a soft drink called "Potion" based on Final Fantasy. They've released an MMORPG based on Final Fantasy that was just another EverQuest clone - complete with endless expansion packs. Any pretext to them giving a shit about the games was lost when they released a that MMORPG.

Final Fantasy 7 was the beginning of the end. It was the first game were they stopped caring about story and started caring about graphics - which is why none of the characters in FF7 have any character. (People complain that Cloud was whiney, I find that gives him too much credit as a character.)

It's over. When Squaresoft moved to the PlayStation because it allowed them to display CG movies and the N64 didn't, it was over. They stopped trying to make games that were fun, and started trying to make games that were pretty. And, as stories like this prove, it's worked. People still talk about Final Fantasy instead of ignoring it like they should. The final Final Fantasy was Final Fantasy 3 (6j). After that, Squaresoft was no longer about fantasy, and all about graphics.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[2nd Post!]

If you want plot and storyline, try some of Square's other offerings. Having less brand weight, Square will take corresponding more risks in terms of emotional development. For example, I was quite impressed with:
Threads of Fate
Xenogears
Chrono Trigger
Kingdom Hearts Series

Re:Where's the Plot!

[ahsile]

Couldn't have said it better myself. The only FF game that sticks out in my mind since FF3 (6j) is Tactics, but still... that was a Tactics Ogre ripoff.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[njfuzzy]

I actually think that your attitude come very close to the one at Square that is causing this problem. You don't tell a great story by trying to emulate past success. You tell a great story by doing something new and different. Doing it again, by its very nature, is going to be less unique.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[KefabiMe]

Just wanted to state...

• Threads of Fate: Haven't played it.
• Xenogears: GREAT game.
• Chrono Trigger: Only the second greatest game on the SNES! (First greatest game being Secret of Mana)
• Kingdom Hearts Series: Heard great things about it, but alas I haven't played it yet.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you'd pay attention to the games that don't involve Final Fantasy, you might notice that Square-Enix has quite a bit of creativity left in it.

And in FFXI's defense, obviously you haven't spent time playing both it and Everquest, because the game mechanics are very different. Also, I would hardly say it has "endless" expansion packs -- there have been a grand total of 3, one of which was out before the US release and came with the US version of the game, so there have only been 2 to buy separately, and the second was only released very recently. Considering that the game's original release date was in June of 2002, that is a very small number of expansion packs compared to most big MMORPGs.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[Bakasama]

Here's my wish list:
Final Fantasy III (VI) being redone . . . but with the EXACT SAME CHARACTERS AND STORY LINE!
Final Fantasy VII redone . . . but with the exact same characters and story line.

So that Final Fantasy can become the next Mario Bros or Zelda? Doomed to remake hell?

Pass.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[KefabiMe]

My point is that I fondly remember those old Final Fantasies because they had great stories.

Of course I would rather have all new stories and be blown away by Final Fantasy again, I just don't think Square has the ability to write awe-inpiring plots anymore.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[TooMuchEspressoGuy]

I hate to break it to you, but no FF game since VI has even had any sort of interesting story. It's all the same "great evil rising up to destroy generic fantasy and/or steampunk world that a reluctant hero has to stop" crap. The difference is that, in VI, the world actually *was* destroyed, and you had to pick up the pieces. (I could also go on for a while about how Kefka was the best FF villain in the series' history, but I digress.)

In fact, the only FF game after VI that sticks out in my mind is X-2 for the way that it turned the series on its head (relatively free-form gameplay, story that doesn't take after that of the "baseline" FF's, more upbeat "feel"). Too bad it's maligned by sexually-insecure fanbois who can't bear anything that looks even remotely girly.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[Rayonic]

We were lamenting about how Final Fantasy VII blew our minds early on in the game, and kept blowing our minds up until the end.

I've tried to get into FF7, but I just can't. The flaws keep getting in the way.

• Barrett's stupid lines
• All the other lousy dialogue
• The inconsistent art style.
• Poorly told story (which was also cliche)
• other, smaller annoyances

I was able to go on and enjoy FF8, 9, and 10. I also enjoyed the older Final Fantasies. I'm able to forgive a lot in a game, but could never get past the faults in FF7.

That's why I'm hoping for a FF7 remake, personally.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[Anonymous Coward]

Fanboi... otaku. Go suck off squenix some more.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[jandrese]

You know, I replayed VI awhile back and the story certainly didn't wow me like it did you. It seemed pretty average to me. Maybe I'm just jaded now. The only one that really stuck out to me was Chrono Trigger, but that was mostly because I really liked the characters.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[geminidomino]

Too bad it's maligned by sexually-insecure fanbois who can't bear anything that looks even remotely girly.

What about those who malign it because it "turns the fscking series on its head?" Freeform gameplay? A story that dodges the 7+ "Baseline" but is still inane? A direct sequel?

There are plenty of reasons for an FF fan, especially an old school FF fan, to dislike that game other than being an overengineered Kisekae set.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[miyako]

I'm not sure that I really agree with your statement. I think that there may have been some people who thought FF X-2 was too "girly", but I think that there are a lot of valid complaints regarding the gameplay that really made it one of the low points of the series. Specifically, the game to me felt too disjointed, more like a series of sidequests than an actual game. The Dress Grid system too was problematic at times. While the idea of requiring strategic planning to lay out spheres on the dress grid for versatility was an interesting idea, in practice it felt far too limiting. It was too easy to master a given job, and the dress grid system seemed like a very artificial way of limiting characters who would have otherwise been too powerful because of the awkward pacing for gaining skills.
Really, I think most of the recent FF games have been different enough in their own ways. FF VI was really the best IMHO, but VII was the first to really present the story in a mature way (to US audiences at least). While the others (IV sticks out in my mind) had mature stories, VII was the first to really present the story in the way that it did. VIII was horrible IMHO (I never made it past the 2nd disc, and it's the only FF game to date that I haven't completed) but it did introduce a number of new concepts. IX was what X-2 could have been - that is a fairly lighthearted story that never took itself too seriously and instead focused on solid gameplay and humor. X was the first game to really present a world that felt real. Abandoning the overworld gave the game a sense of cohesion.
Square does recycle a lot of ideas for the FF series, but the games are far from carbon copies of eachother. Not ever FF game is a hit, not even all of the earlier ones were that great. At the end of the day, the Final Fantasy series really is a sort of McRPG series anyway- people play the FF games for a sense of familiarity. When the new FF game comes out, most people don't buy it for a totally new experience, they buy it to see the latest spin on a known and comfortable formula. There are a lot of great RPGs out there if you want something different (Xenosaga, Star Ocean), and series that do the same thing as Final Fantasy, but which reuse a different formula (Dragon Quest, Breath of Fire).
I've sort of lost my point now, but I think it was this. First of all- don't think that the only people who didn't like FF X-2 were teenage boys who were insecure with their masculinity, and second- all of the FF series have done something different- none of them are drastically different because FF isn't about radical and drastic new things- it's about new revisions to a forumla that people are comfortable and familiar with.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[badasscat]

However, every single Final Fantasy since then has been good, but *not* the awe-inspiring series we remember. Even the Final Fantasy movies were more about being pretty than about the actual story. The last Final Fantasy I played through was Final Fantasy X, and I always had a feeling that Square was more focused on kick ass cutscenes than having a kick ass story. ='(

Honestly, part of this is probably just that you have grown older and more jaded. Another is probably that you may no longer be as open-minded as you think you are. You are obviously looking for the same experience FF7 gave you, rather than opening yourself to a *new* experience that may be different, but just as satisfying. If it's not like FF7, it's nothing to you. (Your comments about remaking FF7 and FF3 reinforce that.)

FFVII is my favorite game of all time, and to me it was a truly religious experience as well. And I also admit to being totally unimpressed with FFVIII and I couldn't even make it through FFIX. But FFX... FFX deeply affected me in a way no game had since FFVII. It was not the same experience - it was sort of quieter, and more subtle - but it was just as deep. FFVII threw everything but the kitchen sink at you whereas FFX I remember as being almost serene. It was exactly what I wanted to play at that somewhat older stage of life (vs. FFVII), and I felt truly sad when I got to the end.

I also think it had the tightest gameplay of any FF since VII - not just the best story. There were a half-dozen boss battles right at the end and all of them were amazing. And I grew to love the sphere grid system (though it did take a while).

My point being, I don't think it's necessarily that the series has peaked than it is just that you're looking for something other than what Square is producing these days. FFVIII was the only time I sort of felt like Square was trying to recreate something from FFVII, and it fell flat. FFIX and FFX were both somewhat different styles, one a lot more successful (IMO) than the other. But you can't always look for the second coming of FFVII, because you just can't recreate the same magic. But you can make new magic, and I think Square has done that. You just have to be open to it.

I did think FFX-2 was a big disappointment after X, though even it had its moments. But it's yet another example of how lightning never strikes in the same place twice.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[cptgrudge]

FFVII is my favorite game of all time, and to me it was a truly religious experience as well.

Dude. You have got to get out more.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[menace3society]

No, no, no, no, no! Don't do "re-makes" of old games. Why? Because it will never be the wonderful first time you played it again, no matter how hard you try. Remember Star Wars, and the absolute fuck-up job revamping those turned out to be.

Far better to let Square work hard to create a new, wonderful game than to chase the ghosts of RPGs past. In fact, it wouldn't even have to be Square; as long as *someone* does it, that will be good enough.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[Koiu Lpoi]

Want a game that isn't one giant cutscene, and actually focuses on character development and plot?

I recommend, highly, the Grandia series, especially Grandia Two. Kinda hard to pick up, as it seems kinda rare, but it's well worth it. It's one of, in my opinion, the 'underdogs' of the game industry that should've been great, but wasn't (like the system it launched on, the Dreamcast).

Re:Where's the Plot!

[geminidomino]

It was also released later on the PS2 (might be easier to find).

I definitely second the parent's post, with the warning to only go to Grandia III as a last resort.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[KDR_11k]

Grandia 2 is pretty easy to find. Personally I've got the PC version, it's still sold for a tenner or so everywhere (at least in Germany). Biggest flaw of the game is the low difficulty. After I completed the game I asked a friend what the Game Over screen looked like because I didn't lose once.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[Koiu Lpoi]

Is Grandia three really that much worse? I haven't played it, as I don't own any semi-modern game systems, but Grandia 1 and 2 were quite good.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[Koiu Lpoi]

IIRC the PC version is buggy as hell. I had problems with sound cutting in and out all the time, and maybe even a crash or two.

Then again, it could've been just my pc.

Me, I didn't mind the low difficulty. The story was good enough to keep it driving without me having to go-back-and-level-because-the-boss-kicked-my-ass, which I hate anyways.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[KDR_11k]

Really? I found the story so awfully clicheed I usually saw every plot turn coming from hours ago. Never mind that the story ran out about 10-20 hours before the end of the game. Those last hours are just one drawn out fight against the big boss.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[SuiteSisterMary]

I also think it had the tightest gameplay of any FF since VII - not just the best story. There were a half-dozen boss battles right at the end and all of them were amazing. And I grew to love the sphere grid system (though it did take a while).

Having to rotate each character into each fight just to get one hit in, to get the XP, got really tedious, really fast.

I've been spoiled by Knights of the Old Republic/Jade Empire, where inactive party members still get XP.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose you could specify III(US) or something fancy like that, but VI is so much easier to type, and easier still to say. :)

Heh, Final Fantasy III is going to be on the DS so then there will be two III's out in the USA. :P Safe to stuck with VI.

Re:Where's the Plot!

[geminidomino]

1 and 2 where quite awesome. Grandia Xtreme (PS2) was tolerably decent. Grandia III started out strong but sort of flattened for me about 20-ish hours in

Re:Where's the Plot!

[Koiu Lpoi]

You saw the "God is dead and both god and the devil were created by man" plot twist? You must have powers of premonition or something, because those were hardly hinted at all at.

You saw the "seals of valmar are intended only to infuse people with valmar, not seal him in" plot twist?

I liked the story, simply because it starts off seeming so cliche, and then turns around and shows you a different world. Also, Ryudo is an amazing asshole to everyone. And the battle system which makes every square game laughable.

Dragon Quest

[vga_init]

I'm actually quite pleased to hear about Dragon Quest for the Wii. I'm a huge console RPG fan, and many years ago I lost complete faith in Nintendo to deliver the kind of gaming experience I wanted. DQ is a hallmark series on par with Final Fantasy, and since I am planning to purchase a Wii, I hope that more RPGs call that console home.

Dragon Quest? For Wii?

[Guppy06]

I think that, as far as Japan is concerned, the console war has just been settled.

Dragon Quest Wii - Huge!

[Castar]

Wow, if Dragon Quest Wii is the nex Dragon Quest, instead of a side-series like Crystal Chronicles, that's *huge*. Dragon Quest is the best-selling game series in Japan, and its presence on Wii pretty much assures it's going to be a success there.

Dragon Quest isn't as big as FF in the states, but Dragon Quest 8 sold a lot of copies over here nonetheless. The GameCube had a shortage of good RPGs, so hopefully this helps turn Nintendo's fortunes around.

Also, it sounds like a swordfighting title, which will fit the controller well.

Good clarifications, there.

[Valdrax]

I forgot how the early DQ games related since I've only played 1, 7, and 8. I didn't think that BoF 1-3 were related, but I haven't gotten all the way through 2 & 3 yet. The second game certainly feels very different in tone. I wasn't aware the Atelier games were connected -- I thought they were seperate.

I also just plain forgot .hack, Xenosaga, and Suikoden which is a shame considering that I own them all. The Seiken Densetsu games all reuse themes, but I'm pretty sure they're not part of the same continuity given how different the world is layed out in each game.

Good stuff. We also both forgot about Phantasy Star, Lufia, and Growlancer for series where sequels connect and the Megami Tensei (aka Persona) series for games where they don't (for the most part).

Re:Good clarifications, there.

[Yosho]

Well, not all of the Atelier games are related to each other. I believe that all of the Atelier games prior to the "Iris" series are related (I think that comes up to a total of 7, but I could be wrong), then Atelier Iris 1 & 2 are related, and Iris 3 stands on its own.

And you also managed to name more games that I own but forget about... although I sure wish they'd make a Lufia game that wasn't for a handheld system.

Advice for SE

[darkhitman]

For coherence in the future, they should switch to scientific notation now so people don't get confused.

Not Final Fantasy XIII.

Final Fantasy 1.3x10^1!

It's bound to be more efficient in the long run.

Re:Advice for SE

[Wazukkithemaster]

you speak the truth good sir

Re:Advice for SE

[Anonymous Coward]

I suggest:

1.3E1

just to stay consistent with my calculator,and it only has one extra character(discounting the decimal point)

Versus?

[dreemernj]

"Final Fantasy Versus XIII"

Ugh. Hopefully not another Ehrgeiz.

Screenshots of all the Final Fantasy XIII games

[RotoX]

http://www.siliconera.com/2006/05/08/final-fantasy -xiii-images/ Final Fantasy XIII versus and XIII look sweet, but not much is known about Agito.

voiceovers

[SoVeryTired]

I'm a bit discouraged by the recent FF games, since there's no option to TURN OFF the voice acting. It sometimes feels more like watching a 60-hour movie than playing a game.

If there's one thing I'd like to see in this new game, it's some good old-fasioned *Text*.

Re:voiceovers

[Frozen Void]

Unintentional 'progress' in game design. text was good for what? scrolling stories,but as medium it doesn't makes dialogue shine(emotions and intonation are left behind).
Its like posting chatlogs.
Though i always prefer text then to listen to NPCs for 1000th time about the evils of the world.

The genre of modern games is dominated by 3d,Voice acting,elaborate rendering and atmosphere,realistic characters and film like detail.Text speech looks arhaic in the context.

Re:voiceovers

[Charan]

I was thrilled when I saw FFX use voice acting. It meant when I got to a cutscene, I could drop the controller and go do something else while the scene played out, instead of hanging around hitting X every now and then.

Final Fantasy XIII: Cut Scene Empire!

[Zangief]

FF13 is a collaboration between the Kingdom Hearts and the Advent Children teams.

It will be one big cutscene. If you press X during the game, you will get a Game Over screen, with the traditional ff music and stars flying around.

Re:Final Fantasy XIII: Cut Scene Empire!

[Maserati]

Funny, but it was Xenosaga that sandwiched a save point between two cutscenes.

But Versus XIII... Visual style from the AC team, gameplay from the KH team to make it play in realtime like it used to look in the cutscenes. Hmmm. I'm already interested.

New peripherals for Crystal Chronicles 2

[Ponzicar]

Here's the latest rumor from E3. Apparently Crystal Chronicles 2 will require 8 Gameboy DSs, since each player will have to use a touch screen in each hand. In addition, it will require the purchase of a Wii to DS connector, along with a dual DS to Wii to DS connector.

Re:New peripherals for Crystal Chronicles 2

[OzPhIsH]

Apparently Crystal Chronicles 2 will require 8 Gameboy DSs, since each player will have to use a touch screen in each hand.

Sweet! Octopi gamers have long been neglected by the industry.

Spend money on new ideas, not remakes!

[challlen]

I don't want remakes.
I already played the game, and I enjoyed the game in the past.

I'd prefer to spend my time seeing what someone else can come up with!

One of the greatest things about Final Fantasy, is that everytime you buy a new Final Fantasy (major version), you will get a totally new game.

Sure, some ideas and gameplay is rehashed.
But I'm satisfied with the combination of character, story and gameplay changes to buy a new final fantasy.

It's certainly better than Dragon Quest, or sports games, or many FPSs.

When you ask for those remakes of old final fantasies, you are asking for a prettier game than the one you've already played, and you're losing a potential new creative game.

Dragon: Quest for the Wii?

[Anonymous Coward]

For some reason I read that game title as Dragon: Quest for the Wii and I was both intrigued and disturbed at what the game might entail.

Man

[Anonymous Coward]

If only there were such a thing as a "Gameboy DS."

Stop talking out of your ass, moron. You're not funny, and you're not making any "joke" that wasn't made a dozen times years ago.

Mod parent up.

[jouvart]

I've been looking everywhere for actual media for the games. Thanks.

Great! But, um...

[Quiet_Desperation]

...can we, like, have FF12 first? Some day?

Re:Great! But, um...

[electr01nik]

Thank you! I haven't even gotten XII out of the damn shrinkwrapping yet!

Naming irony

[master_p]

From one side, we have a forever-going series named 'Final', and on the other hand we have a game called 'Forever' which is never going to be released.

What irony!

There can only be one!

[Anonymous Coward]

They changed it to "There will only be thirteen."

Re:There can only be one!

[KDR_11k]

"plus all the spinoffs that will just keep reusing numbers we've already put on other games"

yes

[Anonymous Coward]

I like ff seriese very much.
i play completed ff seriese and play many times.
so, i can't wait no more.

r2_jane@yahoo.co.jp

Re:They're not sequels, they're an RPG trademark

[BecomingLumberg]

Anyone who says this is a cookie cutter series clearly never liked playing Street Fighter / MK / Tekken / etc. when they were younger (or even now).

I say more power to Square for finding something that at least many people think is great. Thats more productive than curmudgeioning (sp?) on Slashdot will ever be.

Resident Evil meets FF X

[The Renegade Saoshya]

I can't wait!!! Seriously though, these days the FF series sells pretty much because of the hype alone, not because of the story, or game, or even characters. It just plains sucks.