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Chinese Scientist Admits To Stealing Chip Research
An anonymous reader writes "A prominent Chinese scientist, one of the founders of the chip manufacturing industry in the country, has admitted to stealing his research." From the article: "Chen Jin, a dean of Shanghai's prestigious Jiaotong University and the leader of a government-funded high-tech research project, was dismissed from his university posts this week and stripped of other government titles and perks. The government also said that Chen had been permanently banned from taking part in any government-funded science projects. In a statement Friday, Jiaotong University--one of the nation's elite schools--said, 'Chen Jin has breached the trust of being a scientist and educator. His behavior is despicable.'"
What are the chances that this guy just did something against the Chinese Government's wishes, and so they faked this whole scandal. I mean, TFA makes it seem like the Government is in this a lot more than the blurb makes it seem so.
Meh, maybe I'm just too paranoid. Anyone know more about this? Is that a possibility?
Yeah it's possible but it's the equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot. Lets ruin this guy's carreer while at the same time ruin any credibility of a product that works that was created legitimately?? They Chinese government would have to be idiots to do something like this. They have enough problems with intellectual property issues.
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
This exposes one of the great flaws of a command economy: the politicization of everything. People get appointed to positions because of government connections and ideaology. Unfortunately, these appointees often aren't the most qualified people, and they are usually amoral. They'll do or say whatever they must to get what they want from the political machine. I spent several years working in Russia and saw this effect up close. We see the same thing in the United States when government gets involved in economic development activities. Who was this IP stolen from? How did it happen? How much will China be paying in damages? This sounds like a story with explosive potential.
Actually, he faked the research and stole the technology. If you're going to correct someone, do it right.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
From what I have known, this guy applied government research funding, but developed nothing because he knows nothing about chip design at all, and failed to find any expert would like to work for him, then he bought several chips from Transmeta and Freescale, removed any brand information on those chips, and printed their information on those chips, then showed those chips to the public as their products.
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
In an interview this morning, Daffy Duck agreed with Jiaotong University.
"Indeed, his behavior is despicable", said Mr. Duck.
IP theft in China reminds me of Casablanca:
-"I am shocked, shocked to find gambling in this establishment!"
-"Your winning's sir."
"Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out."
Most of the modern chinese economy is now based on stolen technology.
The mark of a mature person is not creating arbitrary criteria for considering others mature.
You mean the technology that the american corporations and their contractors in the chinese free trade zones brought with them?
"His behavior is despicable."
How cute. The country that uses Buddhist monasteries as target practice for rockets thinks someone is despicable.Because China is trying very hard to become an economic super-power. Copying technology from other nations won't get them that, because they'll always be playing second fiddle. Instead, they want to produce technology that exceeds the rest of the world so that they can take the place of the United States and Europe as the source for all new technology.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Anyone following the press sees almost daily reports of Chinese industrial espionage circles working around the world. It is not just chips, but formulas, software, manufacturing techniques, and many trade secrets.
China is not the only country that does this. There have been serious incidents with Russia, Japan, France, etc.
However, in the case of countries with which the US does not have a defense treaty, wholesale theft of technology and related trade secrets risks strengthening the military establishment of those countries. This makes it a national security issue for the US.
Unfortunately, even if exposed, the chances in the US of getting caught, prosecuted, and having to pay for industrial espionage are so low that for all practical purposes US technology is free of charge. You probably have a better chance of winning the local lottery than getting punished.
The problem occurs when foreign espionage organizations target private [non-military related] companies that do not have adequate security measures.
In terms of this particular case, the reaction of the Chinese government is out of character to its past actions, which have somewhat ignored wholesale violation of intellectual property rights, and have encouraged massive collection of economic and technical information from the West.
There is no way other than the use of industrial espionage to explain the short amount of time China took in developing its space program and supercomputer capabilities.
In this chip case, the reaction seems motivated by one of two factors: 1/ it is an emotional reaction from someone higher up who felt duped by the scam of the "researcher", 2/ it is a politicized attempt at public relations -- one of those highly publicized "crack downs" that periodically emerge from China before everything gets back to normal.
It's really a non-event. There are probably dozens of other laboratories working right now on other pilfered technologies. In the long run, however, China is graduating enough engineers to surpass the West within about 25 years. In which case, all of this will seem rather transitional in nature.
About 4 years ago now Libya renounced their backing of terrorism in the 80s (and 90s) and said they'd like to return to the world community. And since it was Ghadafi in charge then and now, he had no weaseling to do. He just said he was wrong.
It does happen. It takes a lot of humility to do it, which is why we're unlikely to see the US admit wrongdoing soon. On anything like, say, the Cuba embargo.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Well, it worked for Japan, that's for sure.
The first step is to catch up. That's usually done by having foreign companies manufacture in your country. The second is joint ventures, where foreign companies offer the money, you create a company in your country and manufacture in license. That's also already achived.
Next would be to have your students and your "brain power" catch up, this is either done by sending your students abroad or by hiring high class teachers. China will most likely opt for the latter.
This worked for Japan, and the only reason that Japan didn't simply take over the world economy is that Japan lacks two essential factors: Manpower and resources. They are quite limited in space, and thus workforce, and there are almost no resources on their islands.
It's very different with China. And once they completed step three... good night Europe.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You're saying because some people abuse property rights nobody should have them?
You're saying that becuase some system calls something a property right, that it is. Please give me your address so I can have bubba pick you up pounce you in and deliver you to me as a slave property.
Please give me your home address. I think your right ot own property is "fairly stupid" and I should be free to take your stuff. Give me that freedom you hateful bastard!!!
Please feel free. You can take a *copy* of any property of mine that you see.
I'm sorry, but I've seen too many first-hand examples of industrial espionage performed by Chinese engineers and scientists to find this at all surprising. I'm just surprised he admitted it, that's all.
And just to be clear, I'm not referring to American citizens who happen to be of Chinese extraction, or individuals who emigrate to the U.S. with the intention of becoming American citizens. I mean personnel that come here on a visa, work for a few years or go to school here, and then take what they have learned back home. That doesn't bother me in and of itself, but often this includes taking things such as research, engineering drawings and prototypes that don't belong to them. Other nations do this as well, of course (including us) but few on as grand a scale.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Not a big surprise for a country that doesn't respect intellectual property.
The People's Republic of China respects intellectual property more than many nations, though admittedly it is not as paranoid about it as the USA. The PRC is a member of WIPO, and has strict IP laws. Nor is there any discrimination against foreign IP: Chinese courts regularly rule in favour of US companies whose copyrights and patents are being infringed on by Chinese companies.
You may be thinking of Taiwan.
Not a big surprise for a country that doesn't respect intellectual property.
And in 50 years, they'll be at the top of the world in research, industry, and science because they didn't.
At least we'll have our lawyers.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
The Soviet Union was very advanced in several fields of science (especially theoretical physics and mathematics). They were the first to launch a sattelite orbiting Earth (Sputnik 1), first to put a living being in orbit (the dog Laika), first to put a man in space, first dual-manned flight, first space walk, first to land on the moon (with a probe), built the first space station (Salyut 1).
Just to name a few things.
It is much more indideous than that. China has an international reputation for having a lack of respect for patents or copyrights. Reguardless of you opinion on "intellectual property," they copy research results and produce product at a much decreased cost because they do not have to pay for the R&D. (I am sure there are other factors, but that is the most significant to this story.)
China knows this, and wants to divest the responsibility from the state. How so best to do this than to blame an individual. A doctor bent on individual success stuped to the evil of stealing research results, instead of taking the long, arduous road of independent research that would have enriched him, his colleagues and students, and therefore, the State. Of course, this is true for any scientist in any country in any field.
Is it the truth? Maybe, or maybe I just have my capitalist tinfoil hat on. Will we ever really be able to know? They censor google, they run the press, they make the truth. Do you really think Tiananmen Square is as well known in China as Kent State is in the US? What do you think?
(Yeah, the tinfoil is starting to spark...)
The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
Did the poster claim that this particular Chinese regime spokesman had personally taken part in the destruction of any of the some 2,000 (i.e. almost all of them) Tibetan buddhist monasteries that the communist party's army has destroyed in Tibet since China's invasion in 1950? No.
Neither did the poster claim that this particular official personally murdered any of the 1,500,000 Tibetans who have perished under the Chinese occupation.
Do the Chinese people bear collective responsibility for the lebensraum-style genocidal crimes committed by their regime? Of course they do, especially since the Chinese people still aren't lifting a finger to stop those crimes from being committed in their name.
The active regime officials (who by definition are also members of the Chinese Communist Party) must bear particular responsibility since they are the ones keeping the oppressive machinery functioning.
If anyone's bigoted(*) here it is the Chinese people who blindly support their regime's ongoing genocidal occupation of China's neighbours while obediently hating the Japanese for having attempted to do the same to China over 60 years ago.
And what ruffled your feathers here anyway? The Chinese regime's Propaganda Ministry's talking heads are notorious for their ridiculously facts-defying xenophobic and jingoistic lingo but one shouldn't have fun with their usage of the term "despicable"?
(*) Bigoted | Big"ot*ed | a. Obstinately and blindly attached to some creed, opinion practice, or ritual; unreasonably devoted to a system or party, and illiberal toward the opinions of others.
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
Especially in regards to the Soviet space program, while I do want to give credit where credit's due, I think it's also worth pointing out the number of Soviet failures and accidents; it seems to me that a lot of their progress can be attributed to playing fast-and-loose, and taking chances that NASA wasn't willing to take. Occasionally, these paid off, although even before their economy collapsed, they had fallen behind to the point where I don't think their development methodology was exactly validated.
Not to mention, their space program was jump-started by a lot of German rocket technology that they crated up and took East with them. (The U.S.'s was as well, we got a lot of personnel, although the Russians got some of of the best hardware and facilities.)
Of the examples you cited, Laika was an arguable failure (the dog died after only a few hours, long before it was supposed to and without getting much useful data back), Salyut 1 is notable, although I feel it necessary to point out that the crew never made home alive -- not strictly a problem with Salyut itself, but you have to wonder if the pace they were working at didn't contribute to lack of QC elsewhere.
Sputnik 1 is definitely a landmark and worth of recognition, and in general the Soviet space program had a lot going for it, but it also had a rather alarming rate of failures. So in considering their progress, one has to consider the cost it was earned at. (I'd say the exact same thing about some other areas of technological development, for instance, their submarines.)
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Hunh? Nowhere in the linked news article does it say that Chen has admitted anything. To the contrary, it says he could not be reached for comment. A correct headline would be:
It's bad enough that both the summary and the headline contain such a glaring and defamatory error, but how come none of the more than one hundred previous posters noticed this? Sheesh.
Actually this isn't true. Japan did not allow foreign corporations to setup shop. Instead they allowed non-Japanese firms to partner with Japanese firms. GM, Ford, US Steel and IBM did not setup factories they had agreements with companies like Toyota, Mazda, Nippon Steel. Taiwan and Korea did something similiar.
Japan didn't take over the world economy, because of the amount of cronyism between corporations and businesses and the lending of cheap yen. Which is exactly what China is doing with it's state owned enterprises.
Japan's labor problems are more due to discrimination toward Japanese women and age discrimination If Japanese stopped it's discrimination toward women and age, Japan would NOT have a labor shortage problem.
I lived and work in Japan for Japanese companies for several years and saw female accountants with the equivalent of a CPA serve tea for middle managers. I"ve seen companies refuse to hire people, just because of their age, even if they are the most qualified for the job.
After years of reading Pravda, you learn Commie-speak.
My translation of this article is: this poor schmuck has fallen out of favor with the Central Committee. After being ordered to replicate western technologies, the Red Chinese now humiliate him as a token whipping boy to allay US/European concerns over intellectual properties.
This poor guy is probably going to be shot and his family will be charged for the bullet. Chances are we'll probably never knows what his real crime was.
Is that a SCSI connector or are you just glad to see me?
And, what about the US? V-2 rockets. German adaptation of the Dutch schnorkel? US seizure of German submarines because Germany lost the war. There's a LOT of shit (technology) THIS country acquired merely through the advantage of having "won" the war. Moreover, the US is NOT innocent of industrial espionage.
Did you know that decades ago many high-level businessmen who travelled over seas were debriefed byteh CIA sand other US-government agencies ast to what tech they gleaned in Japan, Europe and other places?
Doesn't matter that it wasn't patented; IP was taken from Germany, Japan, and other countries, even from UK and other allies. The US is NOT so pristine and squeaky clean as many would like to posit.
No country/nation/power/peoples left behind...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
The problem of course is the potential legal/financial liability that goes with that, which is what this new law would eliminate. I read that there's a lot of interest in such a law in many parts of the US as well. Could we be entering a time when governments start to be a bit more honest about their screw ups?
Whoever gave you the idea China is a communist country? China has the purest form of capitalism in the world today. Its a total Laissez Faire economy Anything goes You can kill people and sell their organs as long as you make a profit. Just because the dictators in charge call themselves communist doesnt make them communist. Communism has been abused so much by dictators that people have come to associate the word with dictatorship. Whereas in reality a true communist state is a most democratic one as everyone is equal. I guess the US population is kind of uneducated as they grew up under the "Communist Threat" which was actually the Russian empire threat. It would have existed even if Russia was a capitalist country. The cold war was a fight between two elites. The politburo in Russia and the New England families who control America's Banking and Government. Even if Russia was capitalist but didnt allow market access to these families the cold war would still have been on. Now the closest thing to true communism as it was meant to be is the trade union movement and social security . So you could say USA is the only true communist country in the world but that wouldnt go down very well with a generation brought up to hate communists!!
**Life is too short to be serious**
And, what about the US? V-2 rockets. German adaptation of the Dutch schnorkel? US seizure of German submarines because Germany lost the war. There's a LOT of shit (technology) THIS country acquired merely through the advantage of having "won" the war. Moreover, the US is NOT innocent of industrial espionage.
It is rather funny that you fail to mention the work of American Robert H. Goddard, from whom the designers of the V-2 obtained important ideas. As a NASA web site states:
Goddard's work largely anticipated in technical detail the later German V-2 missiles, including gyroscopic control, steering by means of vanes in the jet stream of the rocket motor, gimbalsteering, power-driven fuel pumps and other devices. His rocket flight in 1929 carried the first scientific payload, a barometer, and a camera. Goddard developed and demonstrated the basic idea of the "bazooka" two days before the Armistice in 1918 at the Aberdeen Proving Ground. His launching platform was a music rack. Dr. Clarence N. Hickman, a young Ph.D. from Clark University, worked with Goddard in 1918 provided continuity to the research that produced the World War II bazooka. In World War II, Goddard again offered his services and was assigned by the U.S. Navy to the development of practical jet assisted takeoff (JATO) and liquid propellant rocket motors capable of variable thrust. In both areas, he was successful. He died on August 10,1945, four days after the first atomic bomb was dropped on Japan.
Goddard was the first scientist who not only realized the potentialities of missiles and space flight but also contributed directly in bringing them to practical realization. This rare talent in both creative science and practical engineering places Goddard well above the opposite numbers among the European rocket pioneers. The dedicated labors of this modest man went largely unrecognized in the United States until the dawn of what is now called the "space age." High honors and wide acclaim, belated but richly deserved, now come to the name of Robert H. Goddard.
NASA
The term "Intellectual Property" is a cudgel designed to confuse those who do not understand aspects of law that deal with copyrights, patents, trademarks, and trade secrets. All four of these areas arose out of different situations, deal with different issues, and have nothing to do with "property".
In Australia, the [Chinese, as it happened] researcher,
who felt compelled to blow-the-whistle on her research-
head (for apparently not performing several experiments
reportes as if they'd been performed, etc) the whistle-
blower suffered, but the "bad guy" still has his job at
University of NWS & may still be involved in scientific
reseach there...
BACKGROUND:
2002: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ss/stories/s53140 6.htm
"Scientific & Financial Misconduct [re: Professon Bruce Hall at UNSW in Australia]
The Science Show - Broadcast Saturday 13/4/2002
Summary:
This week on The Science Show, Norman Swan presents a major investigation into
scientific and financial misconduct at the University of New South Wales.
Transcript:
Norman Swan: Hello, Norman Norman Swan here sitting in the chair on The Science
Show this week instead of Robyn Williams, because today I have a special and
disturbing feature for you.
Hong Ha: I want my story to be heard by the public because what I have been through
I don't want my children or any one else's children to go through. I want them to
admit the faults that they have done: they exploited me for free labour. This
problem has been going for too long. I want it to be stopped.
Norman Swan: This is a story about powerful scientists with international
reputations who've committed scientific misconduct so severe, it could be
considered fraud; as well as mismanaging public funds where the institution,
the university in which they work, has been slow to protect staff who've raised
their concerns. In fact, at times the university seems to have actively favoured
the strong over the weak. It's fifteen years since the exposure of Dr. William
McBride's scientific fraud, what you're about to hear suggests that safeguards
against scientific misconduct are still inadequate.
[Reading from UNSW Homepage:]
Why study at the University of New South Wales? The University of New South Wales
is one of Australia's major research institutions, attracting top national
competitive research grants and has extensive international research links.
Norman Swan: The University of New South Wales is one of the largest universities
in the country with a highly respected medical faculty. A few years ago, following
Sydney's sprawl to the south west, the university set up a clinical school in that
area centred on Liverpool Hospital.
They even attracted Bruce Hall, a well-known Australian immunologist, back from
Stanford University in California. Bruce Hall is a kidney specialist who researches
how the immune system deals with transplanted organs. The university made him
Foundation Professor of Medicine at Liverpool where he set up his own lab.
With him came his wife, Dr Suzanne Hodgkinson, a neurologist who studies rats with
brain inflammation similar to Multiple Sclerosis. Bruce Hall hired Dr Clara He,
a medical graduate from Shanghai with an Australian PhD and post-doctoral
experience in immunology.
Clara He: Professor Hall was asking me if I was interested in his new senior
position in Liverpool Hospital. I feel that could be new opportunity for me, so
I can design my program. I respect him; I believe we can collaborate and
make good program.
Norman Swan: Dr He has her own research group at Liverpool and is also the
laboratory manager. She's introduced molecular biology into the lab and
her small team has cloned and produc
Forgetting for a moment that the article summary is wrong, IP "borrowing"/"theft" is as old as forever. Ogg started it when he hid behind a bush and watched how Ugg broke flint to make sharp edges. The Europeans stole mathematical, boat building and navigation technology from the Chinese 600+ years ago and from the Indians at least that long ago. Pythagoras (I can't be arsed checking the spelling) put his name on work that he got from others.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
It's pointless. It didn't drive Castro out. He'll die of old age first. It didn't change Cuba. And the major reason for it in the beginning was that Castro nationalized the assets of US compaines. This drove Cuba to the Soviets. He wasn't really a Communist, but after we turned our back on him, he had no choice, he had to survive, and the Soviets would drop money on him merely because he would be the only Communist country in the Western Hemisphere and only 60 miles from the US no less!
Now the major reason is that the anti-Castro Cuban exiles are a major swing party in a state that is important in the electoral college (and thus Presidential election process). So the parties in power subjagate the actual interests of the country to the votes of a small contingent in one area of one state.
Furthermore, and most importantly, if we don't reconcile with Castro before he dies, it will be difficult for Castro's replacement to make up with the US without being branded as going against "the revolution". So, if we wait out Castro, then try to reconcile, it doesn't go well. If we reconciled now, it'd be much smoother going.
Not that I love Castro. He executed people for the same things that Bautista had jailed Castro for (and released him early after treating him well). He ran his country into the ground trying to prove political points and partly out of spite. I do understand what drove him to do what he did, the same as the American Fruit Company (Chiquita) owning 80% of the land in Honduras.
But I do believe this, we are not solving the Castro problem with the current system, and we might be able to solve it if we changed. But we're too pigheaded to do so. We should apply the principles of engagement to Cuba as we do with China.
On the Libya front, Ghadafi, the asshole, showed himself the bigger man by capitulating. And no credit to Bush, Ghadafi had been kissing the US ass for years trying to get back on our good side. Bush was wise to accept and make maximum political hay from it, but he didn't have anything to do with it.
Too many poor decisions are made for the sake of "consistency". Sometimes you just have to say "the situation has change, the correct course is different now".
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95