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Indigo Prophecy Creator - No More 'Porn Narrative'
simoniker writes "There's a new postmortem for Quantic Dream's console title Indigo Prophecy, as described by creator David Cage, online, and one of the most interesting sections in the 8,000 word postmortem is how the game has tried to reshape storytelling for games away from the basic: "One of the key points in Indigo Prophecy was the idea of getting interactivity and narration to work together. Most games oppose these two concepts or rather, they develop them in turn: a cut scene to advance the narration, then an action scene, then another cut scene for the narration. The structure of this narrative process is very close to that of porn movies.""
If you played Half-Life 2 and Episode 1, you know how Valve gets around this. Episode 1's commentary was, quite frankly, one of the most interesting things I've seen in a game in a long time (I didn't play Lost Coast, when they introduced the commentary feature.)
Many ocmmentary points specifically address what's in this article - how to keep the player moving and interested (combat, exploration, puzzles, rewards) while at the same time directing their attention with specific things placed here and there without removing from them the ability to control the character. It's fantastically done, and when it's pulled off right - well, then you get HL2 and 35 Game of the Year awards.
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
what's wrong with porn?!
Lack of narrative strength.
This game sounds like a bunch of marketing people read a few Joseph Campbell books and wet their collective pants. TFA is like a teenage girl's journal recounting every boring detail of their life. Sure, I'm very into game design (I do it), but this is all me, me, me! Gag me with an analog controller.
The game actually sounds interesting though, and that's what it all comes down to. I'm sure there will be a lot of comments slamming the self praise of TFA, but hey, shameless self promotion is the name of the game, right? That's not new even if the game is.
7h3$3 4r3n'7 7h3 Ðr01Ð$ ¥0 4r3 £00|{1n9 f0r. M0v3 4£0n9. --OB1
"Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."
- John Carmack
... you get FFXII, where you have about 30 minutes of cut-scenes (in engine and otherwise) and then two hours of completely irrelevant to anything "travel to this location we'll mark on your map to get your next cutscene". Granted, its not the highlight of the FF series (FFVI, for example, keeps a *strong* narrative even with the player frequently losing control of the action -- well, OK, you sort of need to propel the story yourself after you get to the World of Ruin), but it was absolutely jarring when I'd get thrown out of the story and told to walk through a desert full of barely-disguised Tusken Raiders.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
Based on the title, I actually thought this article was going to have something to do with the sex scenes in the European version of Indigo Prophecy.
This poo is cold.
Hear, hear! They also need to quit telling people what substances they can put INTO their bodies, be it glass, latex, or THC!
ahem...
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2432/128nc.jpg
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4121/111kl.jpg
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6319/107tz.jpg
Red. Blue. Blue. Green. Yellow. Yellow. *BZZZZT*
I helped a friend play Indigo Prophecy twice. The idea was cute, but it's actually just as linear as all the other games out there. The only difference is that you get to affect the "mood" of the main characters, and you get to ever-so-slightly modify the subplot. Add to that all the gratuitious "follow the flashing lights" two-handed button mashing sessions, and it rates as one of the worst games I've ever had the misfortune of playing. In short, the basic idea is fairly novel, but the game itself was poorly conceived and implemented.
Watch the porn Pirates and you'll find that even porn can have good narrative strength. It's the first porn movie I ever watched where I was actually engaged by the plotline moreso than the actual sex.
I played Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy) over 2 days, roughly half and half of the game each day. The first day the story was excellent, the second day, complete and utter cliched dross. It's like they got to the half way mark and just gave up.
You'll probably enjoy The Opening of Misty Beethoven. The Pygmalion storyline, some very good acting, actual humor, real breasts, sexy women.
Regards,
Ross
I quite enjoyed Indigo Prophecy. I thought it was a refreshing departure from the normal tedium of button-mashing action. Instead, there is button-mashing, but in the form of moving the analog-sticks to different thoughts and ideas, and in certain situations, to a Simon-like fast-reaction sequence. I found it kept me focused on everything that went on, and the fact that the game is nearly all story (it *does* say "Play Movie" at the start) made it, well, interactive. There isn't much freedom, and it is quite linear in its general storyline, but it doesn't stop the first playthrough from being great.
I guess it's the linearity that makes it more like a movie than a game, and therefore making it a rental. Now, if they managed to make an Indigo Prophecy style game with an entire city for you to walk around in, with multiple storylines to engage in that end in multiple ways and branch out in... Aw, why even bother asking for something like that? It won't happen unless Blu-Ray really takes off and they pack 33GB of data onto a PS3 disc; And spend three years developing it. The combination of all those things really doesn't add up to a plausible game idea. But what a game it would be.
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
Yeah, but it creates a killer adhesive.
...that someone bitching about the narrative flow of a game had such stupid-ass things as 'button pumping endurance'.
Look, I understand the dichotomy between cutscreen and action, but plenty of adventure games manage to tell a pretty engrossing story with the player remaining in control 99% of the time. Look at the Broken Sword 1 and 2. (3 got a little consolely, but the problem wasn't the cutscreens.) Or The Longest Journey, where the only real cutscreens are speech and the few times the character herself is not in control. (And TLJ 2 did their little thing of controlling three characters, too, at one point at the end walking them all into the same cutscene. One character got there, you switched to the second, you walked them to where the first was, you had part of a cutscreen, you flipped to the third, you walked them in where the conversation continued from that point. That actually sounds kinda dumb when I said it, but it wasn't.)
Indigo Prophecy, on the other hand, was so annoying I ended up stopping it five minutes in.
And, incidently, their little 'bending the story' idea via emotions isn't that original. Tex Murphy: The Pandora Directive had that, too. Solely based on whether or not you acted like an ass, a normal guy, or a saint determined on how much and which of the three people at the end trusted you, which had a rather large effect on the final ending sequence. There were three 'paths' with eight(1) total endings, and six unique ones. (I.e, of the six, some you can reach via two different 'paths', and in some of them the most you could do in the final scene was save the world, but not yourself. (You could go back to a little before the last scene and make some choices that at least let live, but you couldn't switch paths at that point...if you'd been a jerk the whole game you'd never get the girl and probably get shot in the leg, just not killed.)
And it wasn't just the ending. Your dialog would come out more snarky, at once point someone would delay you a few seconds instead of trusting you as you're trying to save someone else and get her killed, people would fail to pass on an important clue and you'd have to do some extra work, etc. OTOH, if you acted like an ass, you had a lot more money. (You owed basically everyone in the game money, so part of the way to 'play nice' was to pay them back with the big fat advance you got on the case.)
1) Incidentally, you'll see all the reviews, and the original game material, say 'Seven endings'. It's known there are only six unique videos for ending, so the best guess is that Access Software meant seven endings total, and didn't realize you could reach one of the 'medium' endings by staying on the worst past until after some stuff happened (The girl I was talking about got killed, for one.), and then go back and do some of the good stuff you should have done earlier.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Sadly true. There is good money to be made making a porn with lots of sex and very little story. People go out of their way to purchase an X-rated film just for the sex scenes. Adult movies with a plot don't make money. The people that want an "X-rated movie" just fast-forward to the sex scenes. People that would enjoy the story avoid buying them because of the X rating. That, and in a lot of places it's difficult, if not illegal, to buy an X-rated film. Personally, I wish people would stop treating sex and nudity in such a juvenile fashion. However, people have to get past the dark ages first.
Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
Like David Cage is one to talk. Indigo Prophecy had one of the worst stories in a video game ever, and that's saying something. If he's going to ask the industry to get away from the 'porn narrative,' then I'd like to ask him to get away from the 'Pseudo-Magical Matrix Ripoff That Makes No Bloody Sense narrative.'
I'm the greatest pirate hunter in the world!
Yarrr!
I'm the greatest pirate hunter in the world!
We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
Now admittedly Indigo Prophecy isn't all bad, the engine is work of pure genius. It's what adventure game developers have been trying to create since Adventures went 3D with Grim Fandango and its ilk. It's great, even the action sequences are VERY well implemented. As a result of this I wanted to like the game. It's like the SCUMM engine for 3D, except instead of being used to support a good title its trapped under I don't what, some kind of horrid dark twisted parody of a plot. I wanted to like the game so much because of the engine, which makes it a joy to play, except for the constant assault on your willful suspension of disbelief that is the plot. At the start I was thoroughly loving it, "This Game Rocks! Its the Adventure I've been waiting for!" And then it all starts to go downhill, as ok, secret mayan clan council runs the world, "Hmm, ok I can accept that; this engine fucking rocks! It's all indiana jones prophecy style shit, I can dig that." Then it just keeps getting worse, as we have the matrix waking up, taking control from the mayans and killing all the humans and, "OH MY GOD! WTF is that (living!!)cop doing with that shambling travesty of undeath(Not kidding, he's a zombie!) that is the main character?"
Maybe if this was the plot of Stubbs the Zombie or something, but no, Cage seems to want us to take this work seriously as a work of fiction. And note that, despite all his talk of revolutionizing things, a "new way to make games" and all that, it's a very stock adventure game, quite linear really, with a lot of Resident Evil style action sequences. It doesn't do anything that, for example, "Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis" didn't do in 1992, except be in 3D, which was done at least as far back as "Grim Fandango" in 1998. It's also actually quite linear, and very short, especially in comparison to titles like "The Longest Journey" or "Curse of Monkey Island". It's not like he implemented a complex branching plot system in game (as has been done in many text adventures) The emotion system is just taking the sanity system from the "Call of Cthulhu" and applying so that there are puzzles/action sequences that you don't HAVE to solve to advance, but if you fail too many of them you lose because one of the main characters kills himself/herself. This is interesting, but not earth shattering, and it sure doesn't make up for bad writing.
Easy. Buy the game in Europe.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
They also need to quit telling people what substances they can put INTO their bodies, be it glass, latex, or THC!
Putting glass, latex and THC into your body?
I can only assume that you once had a horrible, but spectacular, accident with a bong.
Then it was a bad porn movie... another thing is mixing hardcore sex in a story, but that is impossible with the rating system and current industry, if there is explicit sex, it's porn and can't be shown on theatres.
DON'T PANIC
Man, when will these game developers get the idea that *story is not the point*.
Now I backpedal. I realize that some people enjoyed this game, and some *would* like a larger helping of narrative in their games. But every time I see another article talking about narrative as if a lack of it is the one thing holding games back, a little bit of "twitch" gamer in me feels like it's been kicked in the crotch. There are many of us who don't want a game whose purpose is to funnel us through a story.
I though Half-Life 2 was a boring, boring game, because I never really got to do what I like to do in a game. I like to have enough flexibility that I can tackle the game however I see fit. HL2 was more like "shoot at some Combine soldiers then figure out which way forward is." Bore me to tears, why don't you? That's where I see story oriented games going.
A couple of games I do like are the Descent games and the Thief games. They feature what's important to me: engaging gameplay and levels in which I can go wherever I want. Neither tries to move me in the right direction, or worse, allow me only one direction.
The Descent games are purely about gameplay. The story is practically nonexistent, except at the beginning and end of each game. I like this, because I'm not turning to games to hear a story. I'm turning to them for an enjoyable *activity*. Descent's levels are also often hub-based: locked doors are frequently your entry point, requiring you to explore the level (one of my favorite in-game activities), then find your way back, often more than once for each key and door. Although the goals are monotonous, the exploration in the game is very strong, and the enemies are challenging.
The Thief games also have very strong non-linear gameplay, but they add an engaging story. As you might not expect from my comments up to this point, Thief's story is one of my favorite parts. The difference between Thief and the games I'm railing against is that the story is presented in a way I really like: cutscenes between levels. And what cutscenes they are! I don't hesitate at all to call them the best I've ever seen. The game is worth buying for them alone. The thing I like about its structure is that I get my gameplay, and then I get to relax and get some story as well. I like the fact that after completing a difficult level I get some time in which the game makes no demands on me (unlike Indigo Prophecy, I gather).
I can't really develop an affinity for a game that doesn't leave me alone to play it as I choose. I want to get in there and do my thing. Story also really helps me get into the game, but not so much when I don't get the experience that makes me feel I'm part of the game's world and not just along for the ride. It seems like game developers are forgetting about the "in it for the game" gamers like me who really don't want to take part in a movie.
* Please don't suggest games I might like or tell me that not *all* new games are the kind I hate. I know they aren't all like that, and I have plenty of games I'm playing. If anyone's interested, here's a short list (mostly older games): Descent games (via DXX-Rebirth and Loki's D3 engine), Cube, Warsow, and a bit of Moon Buggy (yes, the one you play in a terminal).
No. In polite conversation we pronounce it as "The Fine Article" using "fine" as an entertaining euphemism.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Nope, in FF7 there was just a small piece with the brothel and crossdressing. Not really entertaining.
OTOH the Elder scrolls...
The Lusty Argonian Maid
Crassius Curio
Act IV, Scene III, continued
Lifts-Her-Tail: Certainly not, kind sir! I am here but to clean your chambers.
Crantius Colto: Is that all you have come here for, little one? My chambers?
Lifts-Her-Tail: I have no idea what it is you imply, master. I am but a poor Argonian maid.
Crantius Colto: So you are, my dumpling. And a good one at that. Such strong legs and shapely tail.
Lifts-Her-Tail: You embarrass me, sir!
Crantius Colto: Fear not. You are safe here with me.
Lifts-Her-Tail: I must finish my cleaning, sir. The mistress will have my head if I do not!
Crantius Colto: Cleaning, eh? I have something for you. Here, polish my spear.
Lifts-Her-Tail: But it is huge! It could take me all night!
Crantius Colto: Plenty of time, my sweet. Plenty of time.
END OF ACT IV, SCENE III
Also, if you want to know why Khajiti are sometimes nicknamed "Barbie", have a peek at part 4 of The Real Barenziah.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
And let's not forget "Ten Little Maidens." Steal the plot from Agatha Christie's "Ten Little Indians," add some action from Charlie Sheen's ex Ginger Lynn, and what do you get?
Well, what you get is a highly disturbing scene where Jamie Gillis fucks a chicken. A cooked chicken, but I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse. It's not as disturbing as that bootleg home movie where he shits on the woman's head while she sings "Jesus Wants Me For a Sunbeam," but it's still pretty effed-up.
And no, I'm not making any of that up.
(thank jebuz for anonymous posting...)
Personal fave of mine on the consoles and definitely fits the description of mixing narative with action, esspecially the early iterations.
...is "The Spirits Within". I like that they finally dropped the pretense and eliminated gameplay entirely (not a significant change from the FF games I've played) and made a "game" that was just pretty cut scenes. ;-)
Granted, the plot wasn't significantly more cohesive than that of any of the other FF games, but the graphics were nothing short of stunning! Mmmmm... Aki Ross...
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
hahaha. I just saw this and laughed my ass off. thanks!!
Or download it.
Buy a legit copy of Indego Prophecies if you want to support the developer, then download Fahrenheit.
i guess i misread the title there at first, i thought the developers were apologising for that terrible seduction scene in Indigo Prophecy where you have to play guitar for the ex untill you get her into bed.
that was pornographic
no artistic merit
causes sexual thoughts
id also like to point out that these guys need get off thier high horse and actually create an interesting narative. i hated Indigo Prophecy.
I liked this game... a lot.
This pretty much betrays Id's attitude to gaming and explains why their games are only really good as technology showpieces which gaming companies with innovation and talent turn into actual games.
Don't get me wrong. Carmack is smart, focused and incredibly productive. When it comes to engines he's one of the elite. However like all the boys at Id, he hasn't got a clue about making a good single-player FPS experience.
Raven is the company which uses Id's engines to make good games. So an ID announcement about a new title isn't really all that exciting. Most of us know from experience that gameplay-wise it's going to be the same old ID suckage with gameplay that hasn't moved on from the original Doom. Gameplay is more than simply designing your environments and monsters. Mind you, maybe that's a legacy of having a company 2/3rds owned by a pair of artists.
Indigo Prophecy was fun. It was also unique, a rarity among games these days. I applaud David Cage for that much.
But if he wants us to judge IP on its story, and by reading this I think he does, than let's do just that.
Take any number of IP's branching storylines and turn it into a book or movie. Guess what: it blows. The characters are one-dimensional and predictable. They're not archetypes - they're stereotypes. The African-American is good at violence and dancing. The women need rescuing by men. It's as if the game's French creators had never really met either an African-American or woman; just based them on what they read in books and movies. Which is another major problem in IP: it is basically a collage of popular books and movies.
Taken as a story, IP fails. At its best it's one of those quickie movies the SciFi Channel puts out. Taken as a game, it's Dance Dance Revolution, or Choose Your Adventure the Video Game. Is it fun? Yeah. But it's not mindblowing, as I think Cage seems to think.
For all his talk of interaction, and players creating their own narrative, it's already happening in games like Battlefield and World of Warcraft, where players group together, create relationships, and then play out narratives. On a single player level, even the early SimCity let me create a city that rose and fell - you know, like a story.
In a way, I see Indigo Prophecy as a kind of video game "thesis;" it's not quite as unique as a dissertation, they're just borrowing and applying a new methodology. Indigo Prophecy is both an indictment for storytelling and an inspiration. The story, when considered apart from its video games, is poor. But that it is fun and interesting as a video game shows just how powerful interactive storytelling is. There's a big potential that Indigo opens but never steps through.
David Cage writes:
Such was NOT the case with yours truly. I never, EVER forgot the interface, even for a second.
I believe that they did put a great deal of time and effort into the interface. And I'm sure it worked beautifully ... on Playstation.
But I played Indigio Prophecy on a PC, using a keyboard and mouse - and the interface was easily the worst aspect of the entire game. It took me forty-five minutes to complete the initial interface tutorial. I had to go online to get a tutorial explaining the tutorial, for heaven's sake.
The interface functioned thus: when the character needed to undertake an action of some sort, two circles would appear on the screen. Each circle consisted of four colored areas: red, green, blue, and yellow. The colors on these two circles would light up in sequence, and my task as the player was to match that sequence, rather like the electronic game Simon from the eighties.
When these circles first appeared on the screen, I had absolutely no idea whatsoever what to do or how to do it. If I had been using a Playstation controller, I could quite easily have figured out that the four colors on the circles matched the four colored buttons on each side of the controller. But since I was playing with a keyboard, there were no contextual clues like that.
That problem was severe enough. But once I had figured it out and moved on, I soon discovered another and equally serious problem. Navigation is partially controlled with the mouse; but you need both hands on the keyboard when you're completing a "Simon" sequence. And there's little or no warning as to when you'll need to move one hand from the mouse to the keyboard. As a result, I usually screwed up the first seconds of each sequence the first time I encountered it, and had to play the whole freaking scene again. Some complex situations involved both navigation and "Simon" sequences. Example: In one scene you must control the character's rate of breathing by tapping two colors alternately, while simultaneously navigating through narrow shelves. In this case, I eventually resorted to remapping the controls to make that specific scene easier, and then changed them back afterwards.
This is bad.
I'm not buying the sequel. If I hadn't received Indigo Prophecy as a gift from a person who expected me to play through and report back, I would have returned it by the end of the first day.
The story was good. The characters were interesting. David Cage is clearly an excellent game designer, with some interesting ideas, and a keen grasp of the challenges involved in programming games for a console-style box. But if he can't think outside that box, he shouldn't be releasing his games for use on other systems.
lol well you know how in hitchhickers' guide to the galaxy, that one guy gained immortality through an accident involving a time machine and a rubber band?
Kind of like that, but he was hoping for an everlasting bong hit. Then the accident happened.
Just ended up crapping out resinous shards of glass for a month, though.
The resin tasted really bad when you smoked it, too...
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!