Slashdot Mirror
MacBook Pro Batteries Swelling and Failing
JohnnyCakes writes "MacBook Pro batteries are apparently swelling, then failing. MacFixIt has some grotesque pictures of their own swollen MBP battery, which looks like it has suffered an internal explosion. Apple is replacing batteries on a case-by-case basis, but hasn't yet admitted any wide-scale issues."
We here a lot of this kind of thing - faulty Mac products. But they don't usually pan out, so why give it much thought ?
How many times do we have to tell you? Don't buy first-gen Apple hardware!
/dotted.
Apple's next OS X update will ensure that random MacBooks will explode in a ball of flames. Apple, after all, wants to do everything a PC can do, but better, right?!
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
I currently have the issue where the machine simply turns off when the battery has reached around 30-40%, according to the operating system's battery meter.
Then, there is the issue of some batteries swelling, slightly to severely. If this is shown to be heat related, it may be also related to the issue of too much thermal paste being applied during manufacturing, thereby not allowing heat to be dissipated properly via the heatpipe and associated fans in a controlled fashion, but rather causing it to be dissipated in an uncontrolled way. Like, discharged into the interior of the case, affecting things like the battery.
The battery has definitely not suffered an "internal explosion", as the submitter speculates. This appears to occur over time to the batteries that do exhibit this issue, and it is by no means representative of the majority of MacBook Pro batteries. We've got plenty of MacBook Pros here, and we have yet to see one that exhibits this issue in a noticeable way.
These issues have not yet been acknowledged by Apple. While Apple is actually, from a statistical and reporting standpoint according to consumer organizations like Consumer Reports, the best at responding to these types of problems, it generally does not respond to or acknowledge any problems unless it already has a solution (or there is a defined safety risk that meets the muster of an immediate recall (which this is not (no, really, it's not))).
When Apple does acknowledge and address the issue, if it is indeed determined to be widespread (and anecdotal blog evidence aside, there is no reason to believe it is), Apple does make it very easy to get a replacement. See the examples for the previous PowerBook and iBook battery exchanges here. Just type in the serial number, Apple sends you a new battery. In this instance, Apple is most definitely replacing batteries that have failed or swollen; so, the end result is that affected customers still get a new battery. And, in the event that there is any larger problem that hasn't been addressed by the battery OEM, if that battery were to fail, it has its own warranty under which it will be replaced as well.
In any event, further awareness of the problem may adjust Apple's priorities in addressing the heat and battery issues on the MacBook Pro. For the record, with regard to thermal paste, Apple applies this much thermal paste on the new MacBook as well, and in the service manual, they specifically state that it is the correct, intended, and verified amount of thermal paste to be applying (even though that's a ridiculous assertion). So there's obviously more going on there, and anyone who has ever worked in a massive manufacturing operation knows how long a simple procedural change like this can take, and everything else that's involved.
As an aside, from the level of coverage all of these "issues" receive with Apple products, I can't help but wonder if some people get the impression that Apple just turns out one shoddy product after another, when the reality is that Apple is generally and consistently considered to be the best in the entire industry for quality, need for repairs, technical support, and so on, above all other manufacturers.
In the UK Apple have as good as told people not to buy iPods because they only last one year (despite UK consumer legislation protecting purchases for up to 6 years).
, 1783814,00.html, ,1738830,00.html
http://money.guardian.co.uk/consumernews/story/0,
http://money.guardian.co.uk/howtocomplain/story/0
Now it's apparantly not just iPod batteries causing problems! Very amusing.
Damn Viagara!!!!!!!
Apple is replacing batteries on a case-by-case basis, but hasn't yet admitted any wide-scale issues.
When has Apple EVER admitted to any wide-scale issues? They're notorious for sweeping problems under the rug and downplaying them. Only after people kick and scream with pitchforks do they grudingly admit to a "limited" problem, and sometimes they don't admit to it all but just quietly do away with the product (e.g., the cube Mac with the cracking case).
For more info, visit the battery manufacturer's website.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
I've read /., on and off for years. Never have I seen so many articles about the (alleged) shortcomings of a single product (aside from Windows, but that's a given.)
It seems like every other day an article gets posted about a Mac product failing. Whether it's overheating, poor battery life, dirty cases, and now swelling batteries.
Seriously, what percentage of *any* product fails? Yet it's blown all out of shape here.
I'm not a Mac owner, nor do I even like their OS, but hell guys, lighten up huh?
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
You put the words "grotesque" and "pictures" right next to each other and made them a link... which had predictable results on the responsiveness of the MacFixIt server. That might be some kind of record.
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
The best course of action is if you see your not getting the maximum power out of the battery (it cuts out) take it out and take it back ASAP. Its likely in 1-2 weeks going to fail.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Sudden shutdowns can be precursory to severe battery failure We continue to report on severe battery failure -- apparently due to overheating -- from some MacBook Pros.
As we noted last week, our an in-house MacBook Pro (1.83 GHz) has a battery that has begun to swell noticeably. The system has always had some quirks with battery operation, but recently has begun to randomly shut down, or refuse to operate from the battery alone -- requiring connection to AC power.
In mild cases, batteries swell but remain functional. In these cases, keyboard and/or trackpad functionality is sometimes affected by the rising of internal components.
In severe cases, the swelling is visually striking, and users are eventually left with non-functioning batteries.
In most cases, Apple is replacing these defective batteries on an individual basis. The company has yet to disclose a manufacturing defect affecting any range of serial numbers or date-based production runs.
Anecdotal evidence (including our own in-house experience) suggests that the problem primarily affects MacBook Pros that were shipped early on in the production cycle -- our MacBook Pro was shipped in February.
A MacFixIt reader corroborates:
"Talking to a friend at a Apple Store in NJ, he has had a few people return with battery issues and from the dates strongly suggests its a error that started late Feb to late March, since all the computers coming back fall into that timeframe."
If your MacBook Pro's battery is swelling, please let us know.
Running Rosetta applications causes heat spikes Any processor/hard drive intensive operation -- including running applications in Rosetta -- can result in tactile heat spikes from the MacBook Pro.
As described by MacFixit reader Mark:
"I've been a happy owner of a MacBook Pro for about 3 months now. In my opinion, it is a laptop in all senses of the word. However, I have noticed a very high sensitivity to the type and intensity of workloads the processors are running in regards to heat. If you are on battery power, the time remaining indicator is an excellent predictor of how hot the 'Book is going to get. If you are running Microsoft Word, your 'Book is going to get very hot. If OpenBase (used with Chronos products) is re-indexing, or Adobe software is running, the 'Book gets hot. Most Rosetta-dependent apps knock 30 min to an hour off of the battery time, even if they are not in the foreground. If you want a cool 'Book, kill all Rosetta-dependent apps unless you need them. The heat drops, the battery lasts 3+ hours, and you have a laptop again."
Meanwhile, some users report receiving replacements for abnormally hot units.
MacFixIt reader Del writes:
"I have a 2.16 GHz MacBook Pro with the 7200 rpm hard drive and 1.5 GB ram. It has been running hot ever since it arrived in April. After downloading from VersionTracker and installing the 'CoreDuoTemp' application version 0.9 which monitors an Intel Mac's internal temperature, I was getting temperature readings as high as 162 degrees Fahrenheit.
"After speaking with tech support, on May 31, I took the unit to the Apple store for repairs. I have been notified that they are replacing the mother board and the temperature sensors. The repairs are supposed to be complete by June 23, 2006. Apparently the parts were backordered and should arrive by June 16, 2006. I will let you know if this repair fixes the problem with over heating."
More projector problems Users continue to note issues with output to digital projectors from the MacBook Pro.
MacFixIt reader Todd Birdsong writes:
"When I connect the MacBook Pro to a projector, both the audio and video work great when they are independent from each other. It is when you combine the two (which is 99% of the time) that the audio becomes irritatingly noisy. It is a steady 'buzz' which is completely distracting. After checking out all of my gear, I discovered that when you disconnected the DVI/VGA adaptor that the audio returned to normal."
If you are experiencing a similar issue, please let us know.
For further coverage, see our MacBook Pro special report
There's no problem. You people are a bunch of whiners. Batteries are supposed to explode, computers are supposed to moo, laptops are typically too hot to rest on your lap and plastic naturally turns pink. Perfectly acceptable. Apple hardware is the best in the world, period.
If they keep swelling and failing, then perhaps they need some supplements. More information readily available in your mail account. But act fast, this offer ends soon!
I'd think if this is somewhat common that it is more likely to be an issue with the battery charging circuitry. Lithium batteries in general are pretty reliable, as long as they are properly charged. Overcharging them can cause all kinds of problems, including explosions.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Before this year, I hadn't used an Apple since a IIe back in grade school. Why? Because most of my clients are office junkees, and it was just a heck of a lot easier to use windows in the interest of "compatibility". Then came news of the Wintel: a Mac that could do BOTH! I ran out and bought a MacBook Pro the week after they came out. Then my problems began...
I will skip the horror stories we have all read about, but needless to say the thing is hot, loud and the tech support people are still in denial about everything. I gave up, and down-graded to a MacBook instead. All in all, the MacBook is a solid machine and a quality value- but it still has MANY of the same problems (and a few all its own). In other words, things I consider unacceptable at $2,500 I view as "good enough" at $1,000. Then again, I've been using Dells for the last decade...silly me for thinking quality was a function of cost, eh?
I simply cannot understand why Apple would do this to itself. The iPod was a grand slam, and I was expecting these Mactels to DOUBLE Apple's market share in time for Vista. I had nothing but high hopes, which is probably why I am so disappointed now.
Bad metaphor time: I come visit you the day a family member dies. Mom is crying. Dad is drunk. Sis is sneaking a cig. Unbenknownst to me, for 20 years your family has been normal and wonderful, but this is one hell of a shitty first impression. I tell myself "never again", and don't bother to return your phone calls next week.
In the end, Apple nets even because I bought a second MacBook for the fiance. However, the way I see it, they still LOST a potential $1,500- and probably one heck of a lot of Windows users who are less patient that I am.
barack to the future?
...and what happens if you say *Macbook* while waiting in line at the airport?
Always be polite.
Saying that iPod batteries (or anything else about the iPod) last "one year" is complete and total bullshit. Hell, the warranty is one year. And you can extend it to two years for $59 (or get a third party service plan), and yes, all of those cover the battery.
They're lithium ion batteries just like any other lithium ion battery, so why not recommend people not buy anything else with lithium ion batteries in it in the UK? There's nothing worse about, or wrong with, the lithium ion batteries Apple uses in the iPod. They come from the likes of Sony, Sanyo, and other leading lithium ion battery manufacturers. The original iPod batteries were stock, pre-existing Sony batteries and weren't even built to Apple specifications
And before anyone says the battery is "sealed inside", so what? Let's say you buy a Nokia phone, and the Nokia-branded battery replacement is $60. Well, Apple will replace your iPod battery with the Apple-branded battery replacement (actually, by giving you a new or factory-refurbished-in-a-brand-new-enclosure iPod with its own warranty) for $60. Or, you can get a replacement battery that's even higher capacity than Apple's for $25 from any of dozens of outfits selling iPod batteries and replace it yourself in about 5-10 minutes.
For the truth, see iPod Battery FAQ. Disclaimer: iPod Battery FAQ is my site. It does have Google Adsense on it, but I don't sell anything. So if you think this is some "trick" to get people to visit it, by all means, don't click an ad. I believe I have covered the iPod battery issue extensively, and extensively disproven the crap. I challenge anyone to find anything incorrect on the site.
If this happened to Dell, or Compaq, or random-nonname-clone, this wouldn't be news. Because its Apple, there's shock and dismay. Perhaps because people have a higher expectation of Apple, or a lower expectation of PC hardware?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Takes a long time to load. My mirror is better: http://195.62.29.95/www.macfixit.com/index.html sponsored by: www.photojerk.com - Server is downloading the images so I will replace the non imaged version here with a version that has images when its done.
I clicked once on a slashdot link that led to grotesque pictures of swollen parts. That was also quite a wide-scale issue, very wide in fact. I'm not falling for that one again.
For the last 10 years, I help my neighbor out with his mac. In this case, he has an e-mac that had a filesystem failing. I thought it was the OS so forced him to upgrade to tiger. When the problem continued, I checked up on other issues. What I found is that the emac has an issue with mb capacitors. So I popped it open to take a peak. Sure enough, they have started leaking. Yet, apple does not want to do a recall on this. Sadly, I fear that Apple is becoming no different than others. As it is, I will recommend that his next system have a seperate monitor/system so that if he lose his hardware again, then he can switch to a linux box.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
For Lithium Ion Polymer (or LiPo for short) batteries to swell like this one or more of the following has to have happened:
1. The battery was discharged below its safe discharge voltage threshold.
2. The battery was discharged at a current higher than the rated sustained discharge current rating.
3. It was a boy computer placed too close to a girl computer.
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
I've learned not to trust anything that's white, & takes the country by storm, like Pilgrims or Cocaine, or Apple Products.
Being white, I don't even trust myself !
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
Is that your battery, or are you happy to see me?
-- Terry
three MBP's, three batteries, all three fine.
Now, one of the laptops lost two fans within three weeks of ownership...but that's offtopic.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Probably a good idea to avoid them...
Sad thing is that Apple gets the bad press over it.
Here's a much more disturbing photo of one of those batteries. It was posted on Accelerate Your Mac on June 15.
How about:
"Shoddy drivers make using various hardware painful to use. Wifi for example has only just recently seen improvement"
"The shell is not user friendly unless you know what you're doing, and chances are you'll be using the shell quite a bit"
"If a problem arises, chances are slim to nil they're going to know how to fix it, and while this can happen in any OS, Linux is one of the worst to fix if you don't know what you're doing, otherwise you'll wind up checking through forums desperately trying to find an answer"
There's a difference between liking Linux and knowing linux, and I wager a guess if he had it installed, he wouldn't know where to begin. So him going Mac > Linux seems like doomsday.
My hardware:
First gen MacBook Pro 2.0 GHz (shipped the first week,) with 2 GB of RAM and the 7200 RPM hard drive. All firmware updates applied, running Boot Camp. (95% of the time in OS X, 5% in XP.)
My symptoms:
This whole process occurred over about two weeks.
So I took it to an Apple Store's Genius Bar, and they did some diagnostics, then finally declared it a bad battery. (The Genius hadn't heard of any company-acknowledged failures that covered this.) Swapped my battery for a brand new one (straight off the sales shelf,) and went on my way. (I bought a second at the same time, simply because I had been wanting a second battery anyway.)
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
We use LiPo batteries for radio control planes, and many of us have experienced swelling, and eventually combustion, because of the abuse that we put the batteries through. We demand massive current output to drive high-wattage brushless motors, and then get frustrated and charge the batteries at higher-than recommended currents so we can get out flying again.
Then there's the whole cottage industry of R/C flyers buying 'bare cells' and soldering together frankenstein combinations of cells in series and parallel to get the perfect size/voltage/weight battery for the plane we are building.
So in other words it comes as no surprise to me that LiPos in consumer products are swelling (and exploding) as the capacities and loads are increased, and as manufacturing perhaps gets shoddier as supply demand increases.
As I mention here, the more power you need, the more energy you need to store in a battery, and the higher the likelihood of some sort of catastrophic failure.
gadgetophile.com
Why do you think that? Some things that are easy in Linux are even easier in a Mac, I'll grant you that, but if you had tried using any modern Linux you'd know that Linux is better for anyone who is a moderate to heavy computer user. If you do anything more than sending pictures of your cat to your mom or if you use applications other than Photoshop, Linux is more powerful than a Mac.
Gotta disagree here. I spend 14+ hours a day at a computer, a good chunk of which is spend developing software (in C++, Python, and Java, primarily), and I'd say that OS X and Linux are roughly equally "powerful" (although that's an incredibly vague term), but simple things take much less work to accomplish on a Mac. Admittedly, I don't care about compiling my entire GUI from source or testing out the latest alpha version of some KDE widget, I just want to get my work done.
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
CNET.com.au also has an article on this issue (with photos): http://cnet.com.au/laptops/laptops/0,39035649,4006 3900,00.htm
One is the number of options. Can't do it this way, try that way. You aren't forced to do things the same way everybody does, there may be another more efficient way to do the particular type of work that you do.
That's a completely theoretical argument. Could you name some exact situations where OS X forced you to do something that was not as efficient as it could have been if they had given you multiple options? If we're just talking theory, then it could also be said that it doesn't matter how many options there are to do something as long as the best one is available. If the best one can be presented, then what's the point in offering less efficient options?
With synaptic or adept, available in any Debian-like Linux, you have tens of thousands of software packets which you can install with a couple of mouse clicks. Installing software on the Mac is also very easy, but you have to get that software before you start installing.
Simply not true. With Fink or DarwinPorts, you can install software in the same way that programs like apt-get handle it. While they don't have quite as many packages in them as Debian's repositories, they've still got more than most people would ever need to install; if there's something they don't have, there's nothing stopping you from downloading and compiling it yourself. Sure, there are a few programs that don't work -- but the whole point of the open source community is that surely there's another option you can use, right?
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
Mac- Hello I'm a Mac
PC- And I'm a PC
Mac- Y'Know I can do a lot of fun stuff like arrange pictures and--
PC- Err what's that huge lump growing out of your side? And why are your clothes covered with yellow stains?
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
For what it's worth, I found that my Mac Book Pro was running hot, and was consistently idling at 40% cpu activity, when there didn't seem to be anything consuming that much cpu as far as top was telling me.
It appears to have been caused by having Windows Sharing turned on. It was using that many cycles even when I was at home with no Windows machines on the network.
When I turned off Windows Sharing, the cpu usage dropped to single digits, and the laptop has been running much cooler.
Your mileage may vary, of course, but it might be something worth looking at if your laptop runs hot.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
Bottom line, you Windoze and *nix folks: don't think you can poke fun. We're strong, we're united, we love our meringue-tinged MacBooks and MacBulger Pros and we'll continue to love them even if they start to fill out in back like John Merrick, the Elephant Man. It could be worse; we could be stuck on Dell machines getting carpal tunnel from jamming our trackpad fingers on that impossible START button found in the left corner of XP--now, there's a basis for a recall if ever there was one. I weep for you poor, START-bound Windoze users. And Linux? Please, Spock. Understand: nobody licks a prompt. Nobody.