Slashdot Mirror
Summer Camps Join Fray Against MySpace
The New York Times reports that now even summer camps are raising concerns about social networking sites such as MySpace, Friendster, and Facebook. Camps are worried about the ramifications of certain activities being associated with their summer programs after revealing pictures or postings are made online. Some camps are banning digital cameras, while others are instructing campers and parents to remove references to the camps from blog postings. Of course, the camps take the stance that they are merely trying to protect the children:
"The information that kids share today often is personal and private information that allows predators to track them down. We're also concerned about cyber-bullying."
I can't wait for the Band Camp references to begin.
... that Camp Crystal lake was heading this initiative.
"Common sense will be the death of us all"
It's perfectly understandable that summer camp administrators are concerned. There's cause for concern. I think, however, that trying to ban kids from socializing online and discussing their camp experiences is definitly not the way to go. Social networking sites like Myspace are a reality, and trying to ban reality never works. Teaching kids about safe behaviour on the 'net would be a much more viable option, IMHO.
Why not provide better supervision of the kids at summer camp so that there is less dirt to post about? Oh wait that would require someone to actually take some responsibility...
They claim in the article that predators will use MySpace to discover summer camps where children are going and then possibly kidnap them or something worse. Summer camps don't suddenly pop-up over night and contact parents via ESP to get their children to come; they advertise in the paper, on the Internet, and by fliers. MySpace isn't tipping anyone off to these "secretive" camps, anyone can go to Google and find 30 summer camps without any problem. As for predators using the information to choose their specific target, probably not.
The article then goes on to say:
If they have to list this as one of the reasons to abolish MySpace, they need to grow up.
If someone can point me to some concrete facts about the number of abductions that have occurred solely as a result of a kid using MySpace (without any other factors) I will get off my soap box. I agree
one case is too many, and it is horrible, but would it have happened anyway without MySpace?
/whisper/ Thanks for the candy!
So much for "What happens at camp stays at camp."
The new world order IS a mess of misorganization and incompetence.
Just look at the USSR, it could have been described as exactly that. Nepotism, bribes, kickbacks, major corruption, social programs that are just jobs for the incompetent, spying on your political foes... It wasn't a sleek, well oiled government, it was a government bursting at the seams under the weight of corruption.
I mean just the other day, there was a prison shootout, not between the guards and prisioners, but between federal agents trying to shut down the huge number of corrupt guards.
The real criminals aren't the ones behind the bars, it's the ones in power.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Let's not blame MySpace for any behavioral/discipline/legal problems. The real problem is that, much like the Last Chance kids from "Camp," you spent all your time allowing the older kids to treat them like dirt, and only Ernest (despite the whole posion ivy incident) really cared about them -- enough so that he was able to stop Kramer Construction singlehandedly.
God, I love that movie.
ShortFormBlog: Writing a little. Saying a lot.
We all have digital cameras, camera phones etc... It's just a part of technology becoming more and more a part of our lives. It needn't be a bad thing, summer camp is probably one of the best places a teen can capture memories to show the family. Just because bad stuff can be done with these things doesn't mean an outright ban should follow.
You're not allowed to take a camera into most swimming pools now, however much you want to capture your child first swimming. A few bad apples...
Proof the internet is now just as much for dumb jocks as it is for nerds. Guess it's time to get started on the Metaverse, where we can be free once again ;p.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
...and if the summer camps claim they want to help you out, that's their right to do so, and you can decide whether or not they are being overly bureaucratic/paranoid or not. What neither the summer camps nor the parents should be allowed to do, is sue MySpace, etc. because of their failings as parents. In the end, it's almost always inadequate parenting that causes their children to engage in risky behavior.
I know "protecting the children" is a cliche, but doesn't it kind of apply here? Camp administrators are the children's guardians for the time they are there and have as much, if not more obligation as a parent to keep kids safe. They also have an obligation to protect themselves from lawsuits from parents if a fat kid trying to paddle a canoe becomes the next viral video...
As any Slashdot nerd who's been to camp (or gym class, or any other instance where 8-to-18 year olds are thrown together) there is a lot of pranks, hazing and other forms of humiliation that goes on in these environments. I bet the camps are more worried that photos of kids who had the ol' hand-in-warm-water trick pulled on them by their bunk mates will circulate (and then the potential lawsuits from parents afterwards.)
We hear so much about camp sex stories... Alas, it was not the case for us.
We used to go to a private school who, during the summer, had a day camp, where we were supervised by the teachers.
Can you imagine? Not only spending the WHOLE GODDAMMED SUMMER with the same teachers we had during the school year (and, somehow, they had to magically turn into our friends and were supposed to have fun with them) but also doing this in the very same school building???
When I turned 12, we managed to convince our parents that we wanted to stay home, so she hired a sitter.
A sitter dumb enough to sit in front of TV all day long (cable was new 35 years ago), while we pushed the bed against the bedroom door while we had sex orgie (I'm not shitting you - this was the 70's - yes, I was organizing orgies when I was 12 and yes, there was sucking and fucking).
The teacher lasted about 5 weeks until, one day, my mother came home early and found the sitter sprawled in front of the TV watching a stupid soap, but none of us around.
My mother found out where we were when we came back from the swimming pool (a 15 block walk) one hour later. Needless to say, she was glad to save on the sitter (and we could have the orgies in the living room).
...how many adults are becoming absolutely PANICKED at the idea that children can TALK ABOUT THEM.
Adults have always treated children like crap, but there's never really been any concrete evidence of it because adults have played the strongarm card over everything the child is allowed to say or do. If you took a picture of an adult doing something embarrassing, the picture could be taken away. But now that the picture is a bundle of unfettered electrons stored on a web server that belongs to someone you DON'T have the right to bully and coerce, they can't do that anymore.
It might make being an adult somewhat more problematic, but I'm willing to bet it makes the children's lives a whole hell of a lot better.
The death of privacy is GOOD. The only people that care about it are the ones who shouldn't be doing what they're doing ANYWAY.
Microsoft cheerleader, blue flag waving, you got a problem with that?
Camp directors are attempting to do two things, according to the article: treat the symptoms of a problem and censor negative opinions about their organizations.
If photographs of a camp and its attendees have managed to wind their way onto an adult website, I have no qualms with the camp in questions taking action to have the material removed, however, it seems the camp might want to devote more resources to educating attendees about safety. I also don't see any issue with confiscating digital cameras, even though many children who've gone to camp in the past were able to take photographs.
I certainly take issue with camps' attempts to censor negative opinion and activities which take place outside of the camp and are unrelated to the camp. The article makes it seem like these camps are asking both attendees and counselors to censor their outside activities so as not to make the camp "look bad."
I actually use MySpace to keep in touch with friends I met at camp and fellow counselors.
I am an Eagle Scout and after graduating from college last May I decided to serve as a counselor at my BSA camp in Florida as a water ski instructor (cush job, right?). It was the most fun I had ever had in my life. Gettin paid to drive a power boat around a lake.
They had a computer room setup for staff and adult leaders with a satellite downlink and phoneline for the uplink. The camp is very remote and no chance of DSL or cable. Because I work in the real world now and have a real job I won't get the chance to work there again this year although I want to soo badly.
At least using MySpace I can keep up with the people I met at camp. http://camplanoche.com/ is the place.
Libertas in infinitum
Hold parents accountable for the mental and physical well-being of their children at all times. I know it might keep the courts systems busy as hell but here's the thing: If people are so worried about that their kids get themselves into, why aren't they just WATCHING THEM?! I have two sons and I don't find it difficult to keep up with where they go and what they do... within reason... "within reason" is my next thing which is the "exception" part of it which should, in the event of a problem, some "professional" should investigate cases to determine if a parent was already doing their best when it comes to caring for the health and well-being of their children.
We'd end up with some sort of gestapo-like situation with CPS or some other agency breathing down everyone's neck, but this is what people are asking for! They want to blame the world and make a profit through lawsuits. But if people are the first line of blame for their childrens' behavior, there would be a LOT fewer complaints about what kids have available to them won't there? But this addresses all of the concerns from "dangerous video games" to "what they do on the internet." It might even have the added bonus of issues like chilhood obesity and health issues that result from negligence.
I hate to say it, but we need a law to make it happen.
There is a mantra that exists on /. and perhaps society as a whole that the simple solution to problems akin to MySpace is proper parenting. I think it is a gross oversimplification to think being a "good parent" is going to solve all children related problems. In the same way it is an oversimplification to solely blame MySpace.
I think the solution sits somewhere in the middle. That MySpace should make a concerted effort to work with parents to ensure their children's safety. Also parents need to educate themselves and take more of a role in their child's internet activity. Also there is a third step where all of us need to understand the disconnect between the Internet and RL is illusionary. What you do on the Internet has RL consequences and vice versa.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
Yes, why is she wearing bikini in a shower? Probably followed by whats wrong with a picture of a girl wearing bikini in a shower.
I reserve the write to mangle english.
"Protecting civil rights" is a cliche that DOES apply. That's why this should be called for the bullshit that it is.
Sony ha
Guess what, camp directors? If you're so deathly paranoid that someone's going to find out what really goes on at your camp, maybe you might make some effort to take control of it. Not that I would want them to, really; underage drinking and sex is part of what makes camping such a memorable part of childhood. "...we don't want to have to deal with that kind of exposure." Maybe it's time to own up, Mr. Seving, director of Camp Fernwood. With regards to MySpace putting all the information out there: guess what, parents and kids, if you're going to put up a bunch of pictures and information about yourself on one of the world's biggets social net sites, be prepared to deal with the possible ramifications--as well as acknowledge that those are only *possibilities* and not *certainties*. The statements in this article about camps being worried about "online predators" somehow tracking their children down is bullshit. They're trying to find any excuse they can to keep their reputation of normalcy and safety, when in fact, kids have been doing f-ed up shit for years at camp, and they're not going to stop. It's an uphill battle, camp directors.
Limina.Log
Just let them post their photos. Being paranoid doesn't work most of the time. And with exponential growth of these sites; can you stop it ? NO Should you stop it ? Questionable; Let these youngsters have fun to the bottom; and share it. How dangerous can it be after all ?
There's plenty of room at the bottom! Richard P. Feynmann
So now you can know that the camp is taking an active role in covering up activities that parents would find objectable. This is certainly not to 'protect' the children. If anything it makes sure that any dangers continue to go on uncorrected.
"...this was the 70's - yes, I was organizing orgies when I was 12 and yes, there was sucking and fucking." But where did you learn such vile behaviour? That was in the time before video games! *ducks*
"Live as if you'll die tomorrow." Ridiculous. You could die later today.
Excellent! Operation "Suck All Fun out of Being a Kid" is coming along nicely. First we open sites that let kids sign up to potential lawsuits if they speak to anyone else- they might be talking to an online predator! Next, we make sure they can't talk about anything that might affect a commercial interest. Good to see phase two is proceeding according to schedule. Given time, if our operation is successful, all that these kids will be able to post is "Current Mood: Depressed". Which strangely enough, given the crap we're dumping on them, will probably be quite accurate.
Isn't it time to reign in the lawyers and the mollycoddlers?
I thought this whole 'summer camp' thing was a myth, but they actually exist over there
Why the hell do these places exist? I mean, good lord, when I was a teenager, during the holidays, I worked, went to the movies and kept my self occupied, without the need of my parents spending money hand over fist to some over hyped establishment.
Geeze, I really wonder sometimes why parents have kids if all they do is boot their kids off to a camp each year, simply to avoid them.
Nowadays children have negative civil rights. They have the right to demand to be oppressed. Other people's civil rights get taken away to keep children "protected". It's fricken' ridiculous. The world they live in is so much worse than a police state it's crazy. They're herded, imprisoned, propertyless, practically property themselves. Every man's hand is against them. If I were a kid I'd look on digital technology as the last small bastion of genuine personal liberty, and I'd be thinking seriously about organizing an armed revolt.
Go to webshots.com and search for "cheer camp shower". Need I say more?
Oh noezz!! A scary intraweb predator is going to see a picture of girls in bikinis and track them all down and rape and kill them! Everyone panic!!! We need more laws and restrictions, quick!
Need I say more?
Yes, please do, because I don't know what the hell your point is.
Okay. I did.
What we have here is a bunch of girls who took pictures of themselves and friends in the shower. All were wearing bikinis. In other words, I could get the same "thrill" by going to any public beach.
I suppose you have to say more. I'm a bit lost as to what is "bad" about this. It looks like all the people involved were willing participants.
MySpace is a communication tool, no more, no less. It doesn't create these incidents, they have been there all along. Perhaps they have changed with time, perhaps not. That however is fairly irrelevant, I'm sure we've all done things in our time which we'd prefer not to be published on the internet. For me, perhaps fortunatly, the internet had not caught on to social networking during my teens in quite the same way as it has now. All MySpace does, in the same way that other similar sites do is create a little more transparancy in the system and is could be likened to having a delayed CCTV system from the camps piped into the parents home. MySpace is not to blame, should not be held responsible etc for any actions that happen at the camps, it simply puts practices and actions which have happened in the camps more into the public domain. 'What happens at camp stays at camp' is no longer such an easy oath to keep, is this the fault of MySpace, no, this is part of growing up, everyone makes mistakes, most I would like to believe learn from these. We all have experiences that have shaped our current position in life for better or for worse, MySpace does not alter this it simply treads the path where mainstream news cannot easily reach.
Disagree completely. You simply cannot push the burden of chaperoning kids onto Myspace the same way you can't expect phone companies to monitor calls to make sure the conversation is safe. That's silly. All Myspace is is a communications medium and there's absolutely no way they, as a company, can ensure that all the communication that takes place within the medium happens to be safe.
Also note that in my post above I did not single out parenting as a solution to the problem. In fact, I've never even mentioned parenting, even though it's certainly a part of the solution. The most important factor involved is education, for parents and for the kids. People need to be taught about the risks and ramifications involved in sharing personal information online.
This is not to say that sharing personal information online is always a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with being a public figure, and each public figure decides for themselves just how much they want to reveal. Some chose to remain anonymous while others post naked pictures of themselves along with phone numbers. What seems to happen quite a bit with Myspace and the like is people don't realize just how much they're revealing and how this information can be used against them. This is where education comes in.
Baning a communication medium is not the way to go. Not only is it the wrong thing to do, but it's also futile. Kids will post their camp expariences regardless of whether or not it's against the rules. Pushing them underground, so to say, achieves nothing.
I have mod points right now, and shit, not only is there not an appropriate label to mod that comment, I don't even know what to say in response. If only there was a "+7, rendered me fucking speechless" option.
Teach kids how to misdirect, develop an alias, and spot patterns indicating a predatory nature.
Most kids are pretty smart. There will always be a group that is pretty stupid, but most understand that some people like to see others in pain or want to benefit from their misery. The easiest way I have ever found to keep my information safe is to simply be someone else when interacting online. I've used several aliases over the years and a google search on those names usually brings up a bunch of gibberish.
Parenting is probably not a good way to solve this problem. When it comes to kids and teens socializing, no one wants mom or dad in the picture. It's better just to give them tools to help, even if it's a really big knife.
I have nothing to say.
Burqa.
And forbid your child from removing it when outside the home, even in the locker room.
...Also, I didn't know Buggalo could fly.
We try to blame everyone- bad parents, bad teachers, bad coaches, bad dirty ole men on the internet, bad ole technology, etc, ad nauseum.
BUT WE FAIL TO >>BLAME THE BRATS
Our society has the idea that anyone under 18 is pure and innocent until something corrupts them and that is pure and simple HORSE CRAP.
Teens have been and always will be 1) sexual beings AND 2) immature. The combination of both is a recipe for trouble.
Modern society thinks that teen pregnancy, teen sex and teen crime is all some shocking, new phenemenon unique to our times. Nothing could be further from the truth. Perhaps the technologies have changed but the people using them have not.
People are essentially the same dumb animals that have made the same dumb mistakes for the past 5 millinia of recorded history. All signs show that they will continue to do so.
The model for Michangelo's [i]David[/i] was a teen prostitute that was one of Michangelo's personal favorites. What does this have to do with this subject?
It proves rather elegently that this teen drama crap has been going on a long time before MySpace ever reared its ugly head.
Blame the people, not the black box.
Is that a SCSI connector or are you just glad to see me?
This generation is the generation which reveals itself completely with blogs, personal pages and networks ala MySpace. They don't think about privacy all day long. It's both good and bad at the same time. On one hand it's much easier for some company to invent some new service "put this chip in your eye and we'll see what you like to see and then we'll recommend you some artists with a style you might like" and basically take over their eyes (if they don't read the agreement carefully). Last.fm (used to be Audioscrobbler) does something like that, but again, that's the sort of thing they would like other people to know anyway, much like their favorite food, eye color, and cup size - therefor MySpace is pretty much made for them (and they're made for MySpace)
o hai
Every summer camp movie is about kids banging each other at summer camp.
Now we're taking the sex out of summer camp?
God dam Bush Administration!
Thank you. That's the same reason I was posting on fidonet, BBSing, etc. Hell, my parents never would've given me an AOL account, so I found some credit card # generators and trial offer number generators and went to town. I had free AOL for a long time, undetected by my parents. I think I talked to a couple of cops who thought I was a child molestor, since I would say things like "12 year old boy looking for girl about the same age", but hey, I was smart enough not to tell some random predator to pick me up at midnight while my parents were sleeping.
Did I do some illegal and irresponsible things as a child? Hell yes. Who didn't? I've made mistakes and learned from them, and my parents were always able to give me guidance to help me learn how to arrive at the right decision. Isn't that what parenting is supposed to be about?
Back on topic, though, due to the disparity in computer literacy the internet really is the only place a child can hide from their parents (and most adults) and express themselves. Perhaps the modern generation of emo bloggers posting nude pictures of themselves and giving daily accounts of their emotions, bowel movements, and sexual fantasies will result in a more free and open society. It's certain to have a profound effect on society as these things become the norm. I just wish MySpace would encourage proper spelling.
SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
Which brings me to
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
I don't think you'll eliminate pedophilia without eliminating all humans. It's a simple equation, and evidence can be seen in the animal kingdom:
1. Females cannot be impregnated for some time after birth (there are (at least) two reproductive stages in the female's lifecycle).
2. Males prefer to raise children of their own creation (otherwise they're spending their own resources to support someone else's genes--sure, adoption works, even in the animal kingdom, but it's not the rule).
3. If a male impregnates a female the instant she is able to, then his genes will be carried on by the offspring.
4. If a male attempts to impregnate a day later, then the chances that another male has impregnated are higher, and not only is the sex act wasted energy, any additional energy the male spends in child-rearing is wasted energy as well (from the perspective of the male's genes).
5. If a male attempts to impregnate a day earlier, then only the sex act is wasted energy.
Therefore, males tend to "prefer" to err on the side of "too early" because it results in the least wasted energy/resources. One day early will not matter much, on a human time-scale; a few years likely will matter, in terms of potential scarring (physically and emotionally).
I've been modded down when presenting the above equation before. I don't mind another down-mod, but I would like an explanation: what in the above is inaccurate?
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.