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Microsoft to Supply Electronics to Formula 1
Yooden_Vranx writes "speedtv.com reports that beginning in 2008, Microsoft will be the sole supplier of Engine Control Units to Formula 1. Apparently, moving to a single supplier is part of the FIA's (Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile) attempts to cut costs.
The article does not clarify whether this cost reduction is enabled by cutting back on tech support, what percentage of the engine's power will be required to run all the 'features' embedded in the device, or whether 'crash' will now refer primarily to software behavior rather than driving incidents."
I hope it doesn't crash!
To paraphrase Chandler when Joey turns up in the Elf costume in Friends.. "Too many jokes.. must mock Microsoft". Awww shucks. Let's start with having to press CTRL-ALT-DEL on the steering wheel at 200 MPH and take it from there..
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Something tells me this is going to be bad...
Engine Control Unit: Pressure is rising abnormally in main engine block. Would you like Windows to attempt to fix the problem?
Driver: *OK*
Engine Control Unit:This feature requires the latest service pack from windowsupdate.com. Would you like to download and install?"
Driver: shit.
... to turn the engine off?
or, be prompted with dialogs along the lines of "Applying the brakes will cause temporary loss of your vehicle's speed. Are you sure, Y/N?"
As McLaren rounds turn number 5 at Jerez, a small balloon pops up in his HUD:
You may be a victim of software counterfeiting. This copy of Windows is not genuine and is not eligible to receive all updates and product support from Microsoft.
Click Get Genuine now to get more information and resolve this issue.
Now blue screens are going to involve hemoglobin.
It would be interesting to get more tech specs. Would they even seriously consider running Windows on the main processor?
... far less opportunity for bugs and (pun) race conditions.
:-)
There is little or no value for an engine ECU like this to run an OS at all, the acme of simplicity in time and safety critcal software is a single hardcoded loop
Perhaps it will simply be a branding thing for MS, c.f. the McLaren "Mercedes" engine of a few years ago which was actually built by Ilmor and only ever entered Germany if there was a race there
At least something other than Takuma Sato will be the cause of a crash on an F1 circuit.
What do you mean it just stopped?
...moment later..
...and when WGA's routine credential check ran, it determined that the software was illegal per contract and shut everything down.
...and...
:)
I'm telling you... I was entering turn 3, off the throttle for just a 1/1000th of a second, and when I tried to bring the revs back up, the damn car just stopped.
Ok, Mr. Schumacher, please sit tight and give us a moment to check the logs....
We think we've located the issue, Sir. Since you crashed the A car during practice, you're in the backup car. We cloned the race configuration from the computer off the A car to the B car, but we neglected to refresh the hardware/software credentials.
Yes....and...
And...you want we should kick Massa out of his ride so you can finish the qualifying session?
Actually....no. I think I'll just sit here and block the track so nobody else can get in a run
Rotate the tires, sometimes that helps.
This is a good chance for Microsoft to show off their embedded systems (Maybe WinCE? The article doesn't say.)
...). Microsoft wants new engine control technology developed on and tied into WinCE. When the time comes to transfer that to the production world, WinCE will come along with it.
Of course WinCE (it's their only embedded OS, not counting the XBOX OS and WinXP embedded). The real point of this exercise is to get Microsoft software in *production* automobiles. Technology developed or refined in F1 and other racing leagues often makes its way down to consumer vehicles (antilock brakes, stability control systems, variable valve timing, hydraulic clutch,
Having worked with WinCE, this is a very scary proposition. I'd be terrified of putting it on any device that doesn't have a RESET button (hmm, why do all WinCE phones have reset buttons but Symbian ones don't?). One can only imagine how much they paid the F1 people to "standardize" on a software platform that is individually and independently developed by each team/manufacturer.
This DoJ? Are you kidding? When it comes to antitrust enforcement, the current DoJ doesn't use tanks. They use Yugos with Super Soakers mounted on top.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Maybe Im wrong, but I feel like there has been a huge influx of blatant Microsoft bashing lately in the article descriptions. Some of it is humorous, some of it may be true, but it just seems like Ive been reading some OSS-Microsoft-hating version of Fox news. I dont remember it always being this way. Seriously, what gives?
-Lanimilbus
The contract was awarded to Microsoft MES, not Microsoft Automotive. I believe MES is a joint venture with Siemens, the technology partner to Mclaren (The shiny silver cars, for those who don't follow racing. Philistines.). Since McLaren already supplies a good deal of motorsports electronic components, this isn't much of a surprise.
As a longtime F1 fan I am not surprised. The FIA (and Bernie and Max) have been out of touch with the needs of the sport for quite a while. The "cost-cutting" move to V8s from the nice V10s ended up costing a lot of money and angering the teams. They pushed out Michelin because Michelin wouldn't toe the line. They won't restructure the revenue stream to help the teams and then blame the teams for making the sport too expensive. They create the two race engine rule that reduces the spectacle for little cost saving. All while ignoring one of the biggest expenses: testing. It is so simple: take away in-season private testing, make Friday an open test day and have one engine for qualifying and race (don't get me started on how messed up qualifying is).
Serve Gonk.
MS has been active in the Automotive sector for quite some time now, and is one of the biggest players in the market. They have a full fledged Automotive Division, and some of their systems based on CE go into Fiat, Volvo and others I dont know.
So if you think they just jumped into it, well no. They've been there for a long time now. And seem to be doing quite well. This will buy them lots of publicity.
And anyway, safety on F1 cars are multiple times redundant and even if the software fails there is a mechanical framework protecting the driver. The software largely handles monitoring tasks, warnings and such.
Life is just a conviction.
Anyway, most would be using Open Source drivers etc and the actual application would be closed source (which is GPL-OK).
Even having open source engine management would not be that limiting. It's generally the configurations that are proprietary, rather than the actual control mechanisms.
WinCE (the likely MS choice) only works on a few CPUs and only in certain modes (eg. little endian only). Most F1 engine management are likely using things like MPC5200s running in big endian mode.
This all smells of hoax.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Gee, I guess that means it's not their only embedded OS, then, does it?
Even a Republican like me can figure that out...
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
FIA have been trying to handicap the teams -- in particular the winning teams -- for years. They have required barge boards on the cars' bellies, smaller tires, grooved tires, inferior brakes, smaller engines.
They have also had difficulty stating and enforcing meaningful restrictions on driver aids like automatic transmissions, traction control and anti-lock brakes.
There's nothing new about FIA mandating a lame standardized component, ostensibly to level the playing field.
The same article mentions Michelin being squeezed out of F1 (i.e. Bridgestone being the only supplier). Competition provides too much incentive for improvement, and, I daresay, too little cash flow from suppliers to FIA.
Windows CE is NOT a real-time operating system, no matter what Microsoft claim.
Gentlemen, Restart your Engines!
Your point about how much they paid F-1 is VERY valid. Bernie Ecclestone who runs F1 (and pretty much what he says goes) is one more money-grubbing SOB. He wouldn't be bought easy though, I suspect it took M$ a couple hundred million to get the deal. The thing is there are several different engines in F1 and they need to be tuned for each track so the software has to be parameterized and quite flexible as each engine mfg may like to have a different chipset (Intel, AMD, PowerPC, etc) in the Engine Controller. Plus it has to transmit real-time telemetry for the teams to monitor the behavior of the on-board systems.
I have heard WinCE (which really is NOT the Windows we know and hate on the desktop..it's just a brand name) is not too bad. Personally, I would use VxWorks, embedded Linux, OS-9, or build my own before I would trust Redmonds' code. When you are dealing with a high tech engine that can rev 15000 RPMs and costs probably $200K I don't want a BSOD causing a blown engine. There are some pretty big corporate finances in F1 and they demand performance, failing to finish a F1 race due to a "software problem" will get some serious negative corporate attention. I recall when Ferrari introduced the first electronically controlled transmission and all the problems they had getting that right, it cost them a few races and lots of pressure to get it fixed. So maybe this will put some pressure on M$ to make the code better?? On second thought, nahh..they'll just ignore the problem and pay off the teams not to say bad things about the software.
MS has been active in the Automotive sector for quite some time now, and is one of the biggest players in the market. They have a full fledged Automotive Division, and some of their systems based on CE go into Fiat, Volvo and others I dont know. So if you think they just jumped into it, well no.
Far as I can see, Microsoft's only products are "entertainment units" and software for managing the manufacturing end. This wasn't a jump; it was a leap into an empty swimming pool, naked, in the dark, off the high board. This is what I used to refer to as a "Greens Deal"- ie, two honchos on the golf course shake hands on a deal that doesn't make the slightest sense (sample: conglomerate I worked for was not allowed to purchase any LCD panels except HP LCD panels- and we didn't get a very good discount, either.) Someone at F1 shook hands with someone at MS on the golf course, a suitcase of money went to F1 (Bernie Ecclestone NEVER met a dollar he didn't like, despite having billions of them) and as a result, F1 engine technology just took a massive step backwards.
They're not even remotely qualified to make real-time software, much less real-time hardware. When you have an engine with 8-12 cylinders that revs to over 15,000 RPMs and pushes the absolute limit of performance, timing is beyond critical. Race cars are torture on electronics; vibration, temperature, and TONS of electrical interference. MS has never worked on something like this. Ever.
Prediction: MS will try to use all sorts of DSPs and such to do signal processing instead of discreet circuits. The cars will run very poorly- and it will be nearly impossible for the team race engineers to figure out why. That's if the electronics themselves even survive the environment.
Hilarity will ensue, like MS engineers telling teams, "well, why don't you just shield all the wiring and run more grounds?" "Because that would add 50 pounds of weight." "So?" Or..."what do you mean, there's no chassis ground?" "Which part of CARBON FIBER IS NOT CONDUCTIVE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?!" I would pay good money to hear tape recordings from Northampton, Maranello, etc...I'd learn all sorts of new swear words.
Two companies that are infinitely more qualified come to mind immediately- Bosch and MOTEC (Magneti Marelli is a little too tied to Ferrari, I think.) 3/4 of the world's auto racing engineers cut their teeth and/or use MOTEC ECUs. Companies like Bosch and MOTEC have engineers that have the necessary signal processing down pat, and they've been doing this stuff for decades. I don't see fresh grads having the skills, nor do I see seasoned engineers as being willing to take a big risk with MS...and F1 isn't the kind of place where you can grab a bunch of programmers and EEs, hand them books about racing electronics, and expect results. Where is MS going to get the talent for this?
Please help metamoderate.
... gets replaced by the "Flaming red scream of death".
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
Windows CE is NOT a real-time operating system, no matter what Microsoft claim.
I'm much more apt to trust publications, case studies, and third party reviews than I am to trust an unsubstantiated claim.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
I've tuned engines on racing cars. Firstly a little formula SAE racer, later V8 supercars.
Those Engine Control Units need to be bulletproof. And by bulletproof, I mean being able to handle being short circuited, reverse polarity applied, handle vibration, lots of heat, have weird settings applied, and generally being totally mistreated.
There are so many things that can go wrong on an engine, that to troubleshoot a problem you need to have 100% faith in the ECU. I don't mean 99.999%, I really do mean 100%! If there's a tiny little nagging doubt in your mind that the ECU might be at fault, then it throws your faultfinding completely out the window. Most of the time when there's a problem you need to fix it RIGHT NOW, normally this is at the start of a practice session, and the engineers want to get some tuning data for the suspension, the driver wants to practice the track, and every second of downtime means lots of stress for everyone in the team, including the manager and sponsorship guys. If you haven't worked in motorsport you have no idea what stress is all about. It's hardcore.
Why didn't they go with an established manufacturer such as MoTeC or Magneti Marelli? Those guys really know what's what when it comes to making an ECU.
I don't care how much experience or money Microsoft has, making a realtime OS for an ECU is no trivial matter. It's extremely difficult! You can't just whack a desktop OS like Windows CE or linux onto a small computer, things really and truly don't work like that. It will only take a couple of bugs before the engineers in F1 will be tearing their hair out, going on strike, and trying to retrofit their old ECUs into the cars. I really don't think that this idea will fly.
I am artificially intelligent.
"In addition, the WMSC also announced that due to a significant increase in cornering speeds in F1 this season, the sport's Technical Working Group will be consulted regarding possible measures to slow the cars down."
I doubt you've ever even used WinCE (called Windows Mobile now btw). Seems like your comment is just MS-bashing FUD.
Windows Mobile is a "platform" based on WinCE. It's what they used to call Pocket PC. Basically it's a CE core, Windows Media Player, Internet Explorer, and the Pocket PC UI and control panel (there's a few more things that I forget). People who aren't doing PDAs (like, oh, those doing engine control systems), use WinCE.
Now, what do you suppose the difference is between running CE in a cash register (which, in my opinion, is a good idea), versus running it in an automobile (not such a good idea, again, in my opinion)? I know, for example (being a WinCE user), that WinCE 5.x uses a shared single virtual memory space, divided into slots for the application. And that the code segment is mostly unprotected from write access (in a supposedly modern OS, can you believe it?), and that it has no security model whatsoever, and that all apps run in kernel mode and can, if they feel like it, capture the processor and stop all preemption and interrupts. Because of this, I'm not worried running WinCE on a cash register, but I am a bit more fearful in the case where lives are involved.
More qualified still are the two companies (alongside Magnetti Marelli) which actually _do_ make ECUs for Formula 1 - TAG and Pi Research. (Bosch and Motec electronics get used in other formulae.) I'd add that Honda and Williams make their own ECUs. I've been out of the game for a few years now, though, so I'm not sure whether any other teams have started doing so.
Microsoft would have an awful lot of ground to make up if they really are planning to provide manufacture ECUs. I expect that the story is wrong, and that Microsoft are branding somebody else's product. Or, they are buying an existing company.
The Slashdot Paradox: "100% Overrated"
If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
<F1 cockpit> "Where do you want to go today?"
<F1 driver> *gasp*
<Clippy> "I've noticed you are having some trouble. Would you like me to: drive the car for you; show you a map of the circuit; wipe your helmet's visor; stop by the pitstop for a fresh change of underwear; search the help files for '300kph collision'?"
*SLAM*
i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
Because with digital engine management, you can (and do!) implement traction control, launch control, engine trimming and a whole bunch of other stuff right from the ECUs. Even cruise control can be done in-software.. my car does.
They tried banning TC not too long ago and had to put it back in -- because they had no way of policing TC-in-software. Everyone had it, but no one was using mechanical means. It was all in software.
Which is the whole point of Throttle By Wire -- the ECU talks to the engine, you talk to the ECU. The ECU may, or may not, like what you ask for, and will try to deliver as closely as possible what you asked for.
The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
Have someone noticed how the western public (cannot tell about the rest of the world) has become more and more sensitive to "horrible accidents"?
In the old days, racing events that ended up with deaths, sometimes gruesome and very graphical (ground meat all around), were relatively common, as I can tell from watching F1 and WRC documentaries. And the public seemed to like it.
If you think that this was bad -- "sports should be safe for everyone" -- think for a moment that the pilots themselves might never have considered the inherent danger of their trade as "bad". Think on how many women the pilots could score when they told them they could die the next day. It's a typical James Bond-ish scenario, prevalent in the racing sports of the 50's and 60's. It is sexy, I won't deny it.
The last big racing accident I remember is Ayrton Senna's. It wasn't particularly gory (seems that a driving shaft pierced his skull through his helmet, but the helmet never came off until rescue arrived and the car was in one piece, no gory stuff scattered), but the media made it look worse.
In Brazil, that event took epic proportions. The country seemed to slow down for couple days, so they could follow the drama on TV. It was an interesting day for TV as well, since the official broadcasting had higher than usual ratings for that week. A week or so later, the body was brought back to Brazil for burial. The guy received official honors, the country was mourning the F1 pilot who was treated like a president (mostly TV-induced hype, that TV channel must have made a lot of money that year). Up to this date, there are private foundations dedicated to the cause of preserving his legacy for generations to come. Kids that barely remember who he was or how well he raced (it is controversial, IMO. I think his success was 95% his cars' in a time when racers clustered in two groups -- turbo and aspirated -- and, well, non-turbo cars never stood a chance and few teams had resources to turbocharge their cars. Just observe how Senna was never able to get an expressive result after FIA's ban on turbo cars.) cry when they visit the foundation's sponsored exhibits, an odd thing since they really do not remember crap about this guy and, for their existence, think that cellphones, broadband and wireless always existed since time immemorial.
Therefore, I think that, while the TV features more and more violence and gore, due to the same TV, the audience grew extremely sensitive to accidents due to the extreme spin TV (and modern media, to a lesser degree) gives to these incidents. People die every year in those super fast boat races, but nobody seems to care and it doesn't preclude the continuation of the sport.
Weird, huh?