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Microsoft to Supply Electronics to Formula 1
Yooden_Vranx writes "speedtv.com reports that beginning in 2008, Microsoft will be the sole supplier of Engine Control Units to Formula 1. Apparently, moving to a single supplier is part of the FIA's (Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile) attempts to cut costs.
The article does not clarify whether this cost reduction is enabled by cutting back on tech support, what percentage of the engine's power will be required to run all the 'features' embedded in the device, or whether 'crash' will now refer primarily to software behavior rather than driving incidents."
I hope it doesn't crash!
To paraphrase Chandler when Joey turns up in the Elf costume in Friends.. "Too many jokes.. must mock Microsoft". Awww shucks. Let's start with having to press CTRL-ALT-DEL on the steering wheel at 200 MPH and take it from there..
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
This is a good chance for Microsoft to show off their embedded systems (Maybe WinCE? The article doesn't say.). Now as long as the race cars don't suddenly blow up ;)
Shh.
Something tells me this is going to be bad...
Engine Control Unit: Pressure is rising abnormally in main engine block. Would you like Windows to attempt to fix the problem?
Driver: *OK*
Engine Control Unit:This feature requires the latest service pack from windowsupdate.com. Would you like to download and install?"
Driver: shit.
... to turn the engine off?
or, be prompted with dialogs along the lines of "Applying the brakes will cause temporary loss of your vehicle's speed. Are you sure, Y/N?"
It must be a bad omen when Formula 1 is referred to as "F1" for race fans, but for techies like us, F1 means something completely different, especially in M$oft terms.
BORING
BORING
BORING
As McLaren rounds turn number 5 at Jerez, a small balloon pops up in his HUD:
You may be a victim of software counterfeiting. This copy of Windows is not genuine and is not eligible to receive all updates and product support from Microsoft.
Click Get Genuine now to get more information and resolve this issue.
Hello there! :) Looks like your braking system just failed!
(ten seconds later...)
Looks like you're losing a lot of blood! Would you like to...
Now blue screens are going to involve hemoglobin.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah... Boom!
It would be interesting to get more tech specs. Would they even seriously consider running Windows on the main processor?
... far less opportunity for bugs and (pun) race conditions.
:-)
There is little or no value for an engine ECU like this to run an OS at all, the acme of simplicity in time and safety critcal software is a single hardcoded loop
Perhaps it will simply be a branding thing for MS, c.f. the McLaren "Mercedes" engine of a few years ago which was actually built by Ilmor and only ever entered Germany if there was a race there
At least something other than Takuma Sato will be the cause of a crash on an F1 circuit.
Typical of Microsoft: "Microsoft have been granted exclusive contracts to be the sole suppliers" sounds like anticompetative to me... look out... here comes the Justice Dept with a Sherman Tank
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed (SK)
What do you mean it just stopped?
...moment later..
...and when WGA's routine credential check ran, it determined that the software was illegal per contract and shut everything down.
...and...
:)
I'm telling you... I was entering turn 3, off the throttle for just a 1/1000th of a second, and when I tried to bring the revs back up, the damn car just stopped.
Ok, Mr. Schumacher, please sit tight and give us a moment to check the logs....
We think we've located the issue, Sir. Since you crashed the A car during practice, you're in the backup car. We cloned the race configuration from the computer off the A car to the B car, but we neglected to refresh the hardware/software credentials.
Yes....and...
And...you want we should kick Massa out of his ride so you can finish the qualifying session?
Actually....no. I think I'll just sit here and block the track so nobody else can get in a run
Seeing as there's plenty of crash-related jokes already, I'll just skip to the chase and ask the question most on my mind:
... a simple interrupt mechanism, a priority queue, and lots of inputs...
WTF???
I can't honestly believe this ECU will be running some flavor of windows (NT Embedded? Win2k embedded? XP embedded? WinCE?) and what they bring to the table. Microsoft went on about how WinCE 3.0 was a "real time" OS, but what other than the PocketPC has it been used for?
And while we're at it, what's the point of an OS in a car in the first place? I would think that the number of items that a computer has to deal with are fixed (I'm sure there's a lot, but it's not like you're going to install software on a car) and presumably the OS is some unbelievably simple scheduler a la the DSKY of the Apollo days
Okay, I can't resist one:
"The program 'Brakes' has become unresponsive. Do you want to end the task?"
This automobile has encountered an illegal instruction and will be shut down.
Circumcision is child abuse.
Rotate the tires, sometimes that helps.
microsoft automotive. It's not going to be running win xp.
I love F1, so.. How this can happem ? I would understand any of these DOD realtime system providers for fighter planes, etc.. but MS ? They have no experience of this types of systems. They have a lot of bright people,etc.. but it takes time to understand (realtime)systems where you can not make even one mistake. And - as far as I know, none of the current Windows flawors is realtime ( anybody? ). Scary, I hope they can make it.
It shouldn't be up to the FIA to decide, the teams should make their own decisions, whether that be choosing a Microsoft OS or another.
what the hell do Microsoft know about real-time anything?
Also, who was the moron at the FIA that actually made this decision and by what criteria did they decide Microsoft could actually do a good job?
Maybe Im wrong, but I feel like there has been a huge influx of blatant Microsoft bashing lately in the article descriptions. Some of it is humorous, some of it may be true, but it just seems like Ive been reading some OSS-Microsoft-hating version of Fox news. I dont remember it always being this way. Seriously, what gives?
-Lanimilbus
The contract was awarded to Microsoft MES, not Microsoft Automotive. I believe MES is a joint venture with Siemens, the technology partner to Mclaren (The shiny silver cars, for those who don't follow racing. Philistines.). Since McLaren already supplies a good deal of motorsports electronic components, this isn't much of a surprise.
Uh... right next to the arrow? Is this a troll? Please for the love of Poseidon tell me this is a troll.
ResidntGeek
As a longtime F1 fan I am not surprised. The FIA (and Bernie and Max) have been out of touch with the needs of the sport for quite a while. The "cost-cutting" move to V8s from the nice V10s ended up costing a lot of money and angering the teams. They pushed out Michelin because Michelin wouldn't toe the line. They won't restructure the revenue stream to help the teams and then blame the teams for making the sport too expensive. They create the two race engine rule that reduces the spectacle for little cost saving. All while ignoring one of the biggest expenses: testing. It is so simple: take away in-season private testing, make Friday an open test day and have one engine for qualifying and race (don't get me started on how messed up qualifying is).
Serve Gonk.
I cannot see this being for real, like so many other f1 rumors during the season. Single supplier brakes and tires have been talked about quite a bit. Anything, anything at all to do with the engine seems very far fetched.
Side note microsoft's has botched a lot of the honda/bar electronics when two way telemetry was allowed involving stalling cars.
members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
Anything with a lesser engine couldn't render the Aero theme and apply brakes at the same time.
Talk about the equivilant of gutting a Rolex and replacing the works with a dollar store digital watch!
FIA Web Site:
"Microsoft MES has been selected as the official ECU supplier to the FIA Formula One World Championship in 2008, 2009 and 2010."
Actually, it is merely a means of making sure that Michael Schumacher remains unseated. Alonso has done a hell of a job this year driving, but imagine a racing season where the random appearance of BSOD determines the points leader.
Finally, geeks everywhere can live out their dream of racing a Formula 1 car !
*if you got that, we're watching you...*
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
MS has been active in the Automotive sector for quite some time now, and is one of the biggest players in the market. They have a full fledged Automotive Division, and some of their systems based on CE go into Fiat, Volvo and others I dont know.
So if you think they just jumped into it, well no. They've been there for a long time now. And seem to be doing quite well. This will buy them lots of publicity.
And anyway, safety on F1 cars are multiple times redundant and even if the software fails there is a mechanical framework protecting the driver. The software largely handles monitoring tasks, warnings and such.
Life is just a conviction.
Anyway, most would be using Open Source drivers etc and the actual application would be closed source (which is GPL-OK).
Even having open source engine management would not be that limiting. It's generally the configurations that are proprietary, rather than the actual control mechanisms.
WinCE (the likely MS choice) only works on a few CPUs and only in certain modes (eg. little endian only). Most F1 engine management are likely using things like MPC5200s running in big endian mode.
This all smells of hoax.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
What's this?!?! A bluescreen?!?! I'M AIRBORN AAAAARRRRRRrrrrgghh!!....
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
So.. who gets the exclusive antivirus software contract?
Women are like electronics: you don't know how damaged they are until you try to turn them on.
"...other than the static 'examples'..."
FIA have been trying to handicap the teams -- in particular the winning teams -- for years. They have required barge boards on the cars' bellies, smaller tires, grooved tires, inferior brakes, smaller engines.
They have also had difficulty stating and enforcing meaningful restrictions on driver aids like automatic transmissions, traction control and anti-lock brakes.
There's nothing new about FIA mandating a lame standardized component, ostensibly to level the playing field.
The same article mentions Michelin being squeezed out of F1 (i.e. Bridgestone being the only supplier). Competition provides too much incentive for improvement, and, I daresay, too little cash flow from suppliers to FIA.
TechGranny is mean ornery and horny! She is also old, and slow, like windows.
A match made in heaven if there ever was one. TechGranny is OEM windows certified. TechGranny can come to your house!
peace out, its a joke folks. Don't take it seriously. I had some slack time, and recorded her.
Gentlemen, Restart your Engines!
BSOD at 200 mph - where do you want to go today? don' matter, boy, you're headed for a crash!
I've heard that some people use normal Wi-Fi to transmit telemetry to mechanics in the pits. I was told this by a mechanic that works in a racing league that's not F1, but I'm not sure which league (even if they are called leagues) so take it with a grain of salt. If you start exposing all these cars with windows (one version or the other) things might get funny. Even if you encrypt everything, some bored hacker will probably get through, specially with a lot of traffic. Crashing the telemetry is not a "funny" as having the whole car actually crash, but it's an ugly (open) door.
please excuse my apathy
"It's as if a million 'car crash = windows crash' posts suddenly cried out in terror, and then, suddenly, silence."
From the Article, it appears that Bridgestone is going to be the sole supplier of tyres. I always thought that with F1 and other motor sports that a race car is normally sponsored and in some cases fitted by sponsors product. It does not make sense for tyre companies like Yokohama, Michelin .... etc to sponsor a car if that car is not going to be using their products.
....) again if this is going to be restricted to a few companies, then we all may as well watch a slot car race.
Now getting back to Microsoft (this is Slashdot), the above still applies. If I was a manufacturer of car ECU's then why would I sponsor a F1 race car?
Not sure about all the other parts (ie. engine, breaks, struts
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
I remember the comparison between microsoft windows and the automobile industry..
Is it just me or is anyone else worried about their cars "crashing".. and I dont just mean the computer...
Driving along at 115 km/h (thats about 70mph) and all of a sudden the car computer decides to crash and you have no brakes or response from the car in general..
Personally ill stick with my 1980 datsun stanza.. sure it might use a little extra fuel but i know when i press the brake, the car is going to stop.
Just my 2c worth
i know i'm replying to a troll, but those are it. those are not static examples. you really think slownewsday would be an example, just because it happens a lot? /sigh.
sent from my slashdot browser.
The FIA is a dictatorship, there are no bidding rules. A sufficient bribe always works, just how M$ is used to doing business.
How big was that software donation to MA to get them to reconsider ODF?
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
And atleast we now know why Vista was delayed, so they could sell Vista F1 Edition.
I wonder about the wisdom of putting Microsoft software on cars that have been described as "missiles on wheels."
games journalism blog
Please, tell me it's just a joke.
MS has been active in the Automotive sector for quite some time now, and is one of the biggest players in the market. They have a full fledged Automotive Division, and some of their systems based on CE go into Fiat, Volvo and others I dont know. So if you think they just jumped into it, well no.
Far as I can see, Microsoft's only products are "entertainment units" and software for managing the manufacturing end. This wasn't a jump; it was a leap into an empty swimming pool, naked, in the dark, off the high board. This is what I used to refer to as a "Greens Deal"- ie, two honchos on the golf course shake hands on a deal that doesn't make the slightest sense (sample: conglomerate I worked for was not allowed to purchase any LCD panels except HP LCD panels- and we didn't get a very good discount, either.) Someone at F1 shook hands with someone at MS on the golf course, a suitcase of money went to F1 (Bernie Ecclestone NEVER met a dollar he didn't like, despite having billions of them) and as a result, F1 engine technology just took a massive step backwards.
They're not even remotely qualified to make real-time software, much less real-time hardware. When you have an engine with 8-12 cylinders that revs to over 15,000 RPMs and pushes the absolute limit of performance, timing is beyond critical. Race cars are torture on electronics; vibration, temperature, and TONS of electrical interference. MS has never worked on something like this. Ever.
Prediction: MS will try to use all sorts of DSPs and such to do signal processing instead of discreet circuits. The cars will run very poorly- and it will be nearly impossible for the team race engineers to figure out why. That's if the electronics themselves even survive the environment.
Hilarity will ensue, like MS engineers telling teams, "well, why don't you just shield all the wiring and run more grounds?" "Because that would add 50 pounds of weight." "So?" Or..."what do you mean, there's no chassis ground?" "Which part of CARBON FIBER IS NOT CONDUCTIVE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?!" I would pay good money to hear tape recordings from Northampton, Maranello, etc...I'd learn all sorts of new swear words.
Two companies that are infinitely more qualified come to mind immediately- Bosch and MOTEC (Magneti Marelli is a little too tied to Ferrari, I think.) 3/4 of the world's auto racing engineers cut their teeth and/or use MOTEC ECUs. Companies like Bosch and MOTEC have engineers that have the necessary signal processing down pat, and they've been doing this stuff for decades. I don't see fresh grads having the skills, nor do I see seasoned engineers as being willing to take a big risk with MS...and F1 isn't the kind of place where you can grab a bunch of programmers and EEs, hand them books about racing electronics, and expect results. Where is MS going to get the talent for this?
Please help metamoderate.
Cingular sells windows powered smart phones and verizon sells phones able to play Microsoft protected music. While you down Microsoft; XBOX 360s are sold. While you laugh and joke about the BSOD; Microsoft works with Bosch to bring the Internet to the auto via Windows CE. While you laugh and joke about Microsoft; LG incorporates the Microsoft channel guide into their plasma high definition monitors/TVs and continues their IPTV initiatives.
Keep your jokes coming because while you talk about how inferior Microsoft is on the desktop, Microsoft is working it's way into the rest of your life...one device at a time.
it's an integral part of the FIA's plan to slow down F1 cars and create more exciting events with more overtaking. Kidding. I use windows with a bunch of services turned off and a decent firewall and it's never given me a problem. Like ubuntu too :)
This whole thing is a publicity stunt/joke to make Microsoft look like they can be run on automobile control systems. In the real world, power and CPU utilization are primary factors considered in the design phase of any of these types of projects. Microsoft would never be even considered on the drawing board for anything like this in the real world. When you build a system half assed from the ground up, it tends to fail sooner at a faster rate than if you designed it properly from the beginning. This project reminds me of those Microsoft "smart phones" that they released, which fail more than they work, and juice the batteries. Too much CPU utilization and too little performance for realtime applications. Nice try.
"will be consulted regarding possible measures to slow the cars down."
!sig
MS aside, Formula One has had a huge problem keeping driver aids out of the sport. Driver aids do not belong in a series that is supposed to be the ultimate test of a driver.
The only series that has had any luck keeping driver aids out is NASCAR, because they don't allow any kind of tech (even fuel injection).
If this allows Formula 1 to get traction control, antilock brakes, launch control and other stuff out of F1, this will be a good thing.
I'm not sure if I believe it though. The excuse for allowing traction control was because they said they couldn't figure out how to keep it out. And yet I can see telemetry of the pedal position in the car, see the revs climb and even hear the TC cut in and out. It's simple. Monitor the telemetry and if the engine acceleration drops without the pedal moving, DQ the car.
Formula 1 is a shadow of its former self. It's still fast and expensive, but all passing is gone. And allowing tire changes during the race again just made the marbles problem much bigger, as anyone could have predicted, decreasing the passing even more.
Okay, that's enough. This isn't the right place to complain about this anyway.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
DO NOT sit in the front row...
Great Intellect...
I forsee a lot more engines going "Ker-Blammo!" as Steve Matchett puts it..
End of line..
Now all drivers will have to be MS certified as this will be another qualification apart from a Super License All buttons on the stering wheel will be replaced by Ctrl Alt Del The new interface is so user friendly that MS will provide a single button for Ctrl Alt Del. Drivers will somehow accept that their cars will stall on the track in the middle of the race for no specific reasons. Debian will make one ECU which will be 20% faster and 10% more fuel efficient and 100% more reliable.. but F1 will still continue due to the fact that Debian is poor and they cant match the X billion$ money MS is pumping in
... gets replaced by the "Flaming red scream of death".
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
Ouch!
The Blue Screen of Death takes on a whole new meaning!
Simpy
I've tuned engines on racing cars. Firstly a little formula SAE racer, later V8 supercars.
Those Engine Control Units need to be bulletproof. And by bulletproof, I mean being able to handle being short circuited, reverse polarity applied, handle vibration, lots of heat, have weird settings applied, and generally being totally mistreated.
There are so many things that can go wrong on an engine, that to troubleshoot a problem you need to have 100% faith in the ECU. I don't mean 99.999%, I really do mean 100%! If there's a tiny little nagging doubt in your mind that the ECU might be at fault, then it throws your faultfinding completely out the window. Most of the time when there's a problem you need to fix it RIGHT NOW, normally this is at the start of a practice session, and the engineers want to get some tuning data for the suspension, the driver wants to practice the track, and every second of downtime means lots of stress for everyone in the team, including the manager and sponsorship guys. If you haven't worked in motorsport you have no idea what stress is all about. It's hardcore.
Why didn't they go with an established manufacturer such as MoTeC or Magneti Marelli? Those guys really know what's what when it comes to making an ECU.
I don't care how much experience or money Microsoft has, making a realtime OS for an ECU is no trivial matter. It's extremely difficult! You can't just whack a desktop OS like Windows CE or linux onto a small computer, things really and truly don't work like that. It will only take a couple of bugs before the engineers in F1 will be tearing their hair out, going on strike, and trying to retrofit their old ECUs into the cars. I really don't think that this idea will fly.
I am artificially intelligent.
They heard that Microsoft's hardware was full of race conditions and thought that was a good thing.
And how clever it was from Microsoft to make sure it's never the car's fault
thus avoiding the blame if anything goes wrong...
Sure, the driver is always the culprit!
At least these buttons will come standard on F1 control panels:
- Update Driver
- Roll Back Driver
- Uninstall Driver
I don't know if Honda will keep the "Jensen" button though...
... where are they going to fit the Ctrl - Alt - Del buttons...
"In addition, the WMSC also announced that due to a significant increase in cornering speeds in F1 this season, the sport's Technical Working Group will be consulted regarding possible measures to slow the cars down."
You appear to be trying to parallel park. Would you like help?
Record-breaking is understandably expensive. Street cars are interesting and doable though. I want this:
Hello anybody there? hey is this mic turned on? How come I don't hear anything. What's that music?
I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.
If I tag a story as 'flamebait', and then return to the same story two hours later to discover that the 'flamebait' tag has yet to be applied, I would conclude that there is some sought of selective process at work. Can anyone intelligent shed some light onto this process and how/if it is possible to see the entire list of every last tag for a story, so as to completely asses the entire gamut of users opinions?
More qualified still are the two companies (alongside Magnetti Marelli) which actually _do_ make ECUs for Formula 1 - TAG and Pi Research. (Bosch and Motec electronics get used in other formulae.) I'd add that Honda and Williams make their own ECUs. I've been out of the game for a few years now, though, so I'm not sure whether any other teams have started doing so.
Microsoft would have an awful lot of ground to make up if they really are planning to provide manufacture ECUs. I expect that the story is wrong, and that Microsoft are branding somebody else's product. Or, they are buying an existing company.
I wonder when they'll release the next Formula 1 Service Pack
The cars could be anything the engineers could come up with to go faster. Each car unique, a prototype with parts made for the purpose. The idea that you can cheat by using different software at different points during the race is ridiculous, the idea that it should be safe is also ridiculous, they are by definition supposed to be racing at the extreme limits of physical and mental performance.
Now Formula 1 is terminally boring, it's about going round a track and coining in as much advertising and TV revenue as is possible. It's a business rather than the big race it used to be. These days I watch MotoGP instead. Now those guys know how to race.
Deleted
Microsoft pit crews: changing each tyre, to see which one is punctured.
All M$ bashing aside (which is why I expect this was posted to Slashdot), the ECU is not completely in Microsoft's hands. The project is a colloboration between Microsoft and Siemens called MES - the latter of which have a great deal of expertise in ECUs.
I know at least one F1 team used VxWorks. At that point at least it didn't have any form of memory protection, either, just one big virtual segment where everything would run in kernel mode. They had at that point something called VxWorks AE with memory protection, but they pulled it from the market because it was a flop. I am pretty sure it wasn't used in the F1 car. They have later on made a more standeard version with "realtime processes" with full memory protection, closer to how Unix behaves.
...will it run .net???
Rocket science is easy. Neurosurgery, now *that's* difficult.
All Windows jokes start from windows XP (and 2K, 98, 95....). But its kernel is very good. It's the drivers/applications that cause the crashes. But on an ECU (I'm a software developer for car automated transmissions, but with administrator background) you develop a very different code. The goal is to reduce delays to ms timings, whereas in Windows (XP, CE, whatever) a one-time delay of 200ms, you (user), won't even notice. That's the difference between a RTOS and a desktop/server OS.
Besides, the Windows (entire code) has hundreds of employees, but on a RTOS you don't need more than 20-30 people. The idea is that Windows has many projects (each app independently), whereas the ECU code forms at most 4-5 bynaries. So you cannot put too many people on one project, because it will delay it even more.
It's still unclear what they will be producing (HW/SW), but it's clear that there will be only one HW platform (not even Intel/AMD types of battles). Also I'm sure that every team can have some software developers to adapt to their engine set, so it won't be entirely MS software.
There can be no "Control+Alt+Escape".
It certainly adds a whole new meaning to the term 'driver update'.
Formula One cars were most powerful in the late 1980s, but in an effort to enforce safety they cut about 200 horsepower. The cars are still very fast, but obviously if cornering speeds are on the rise its not as fast as the drivers at the wheel can handle. As a die-hard gearhead, I hate hearing about power cuts in motorsports. But, as a PC user, I know that power dampening is Microsoft's bread and butter, and this is really like killing two birds with one stone for FIA.
So it seems Microsoft may have to design a system that doesn't allow the device's full power utilization; I ,for one, believe they have been preparing for a challenge just like this for thirty years!
If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
They're always trying to find ways of slowing the cars down more and more, so adding Windows to the ECU is probably the logical next step...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Doesn't F1 stand for help? As in "Microsoft is pressing F1 for a little financial help."
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
http://www.donsautopages.co.nz/microsoftgm.htm
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
Does it run linux?
That which does not kill her only prolongs my agony.
software validation involves a complete check of all the source code...
...after signing Microsoft's 200 page non-disclosure agreement.
Just wanted to let you know.
They stole other technologies, and abused their monopoly, but I guess you need to be clever for that, be caught and not being properly punished.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I can understand them mandating some standard cpontrol unit but where does Microsoft enter into the picture?
Do F1 cars need to run Windows or something?
What else does Microsoft have to offer? Oh yes, money...
No sig today...
In soviet Russia, windows crashes you!
(sorry, i'm going to get my asbestos suit right now!)
Everybody has a purpose in life, maybe mine is to lurk in slashdot.
<F1 cockpit> "Where do you want to go today?"
<F1 driver> *gasp*
<Clippy> "I've noticed you are having some trouble. Would you like me to: drive the car for you; show you a map of the circuit; wipe your helmet's visor; stop by the pitstop for a fresh change of underwear; search the help files for '300kph collision'?"
*SLAM*
i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
F1 cars don't have opening and shutting windows, how are the support tech going to solve problems if they can't do that?
This will work until some 5c|21p7 k1dd13 gets a bluetooth connection to one and downloads pr0n on it, or someone's virus infected phone will spread the infection.
All of a sudden the cars will be sending me emails about where I can get
ch33333eap c14ls and v1aaagr4
= Grow a brain...
I believe that MS is doing this to support their other automotive software initiatives. While the two initiatives may have nothing to do with one another, they can be easily tied in advertising.
Also funny is Bernie's comments in Indy about there being no significant American companies in F1, and how American is irrelevant for F1. Cagey or ignorant. Hard to say with him.
Announcer: Jackie is in the pits now with Nigel. Let's go to them now: Jackie?
Jackie: Thanks Ronnie. I'm here in the pits with Nigel. Nigel: what happened this afternoon in turn 6?
Nigel: Well, it was actually in lap 24 that we noticed a problem with the Windows Update. It looked like one of the security patches wouldn't apply. When I pitted in lap 30 the crew re-installed Windows.
Jackie: We thought that was a long pit -- 22 seconds was it?
Nigel: 24. It seemed like forever. But as you saw, Victor was also having driver problems, so I didn't lose as much time on him as I feared.
Jackie: So what about turn 6?
Nigel: Well, it turns out that back in lap 24 when we had the Windows Update problem, I also picked up a Code Red worm from one of the other cars. So I started to notice performance problems going into lap 32 but as we had the lead after Victor went out, I wanted to stay in it. Through the next two laps I tried and tried to get Norton Antivirus to eliminate the Code Red, but it just wouldn't go away. Finally, entering turn 6 my car blue-screened -- I saw all the smoke in the video -- but the real problem was the loss of steering control.
Jackie: Is the Code Red worm what caused Victor's crash in lap 30?
Nigel: No, I think he was still having driver problems with is Fire-Wire brakes. That's quite an advanced system, Jackie -- you know most of the other teams are on USB brakes. Vic has the advantage in some of the faster corners, but I think there are still reliability problems.
Jackie: So what's next for your team? Will you be ready for Monaco?
Nigel: Oh, no question about Monaco -- the spare car is nearly ready. We still have to install service pack 4 on it and run the updates. Monaco's only two weeks away, so the crew will be flat out on that, but I know we'll be ready.
Jackie: Thanks so much Nigel, we wish you better luck in Monaco. Over to you Ronnie.
Sounds like they're taking the right step in that direction by moving to Microsoft software.
Michael Coyne
http://turthalion.blogspot.com
Yeah, probably very slight. You know they love to cram as much of Windows (as-is) as they can into everything they do, no matter how stupid that is
That's baloney. I never would have guessed that the factory navigational system in my Honda runs Windows Automotive, because you never see as much as a single logo, but it does, and it works great.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
This will be undone within five years. Russell Athletic tried to do this once with several of their athletic wear lines - some poorly concocted middle management scheme. Unfortunately they forgot that when you sole source your goods you loose this nifty thing called competition! On top of that they used a broker and instead of negotiating the price, they told the broker the budget!
In this case, Microsoft is the broker and the actual components are more than likely sourced by Microsoft someplace else. Same scenario, no cost saving whatsoever.
In Russells case, this cause a single point of failure, the broker failed to monitor the conditions of the manufacturing plants (read: opened up the risk of using sweatshop labor) and the shipments were delayed despite promises that they would be delivered. The project was yanked from the guy but not before the season was squandered.
Never sole source unless there truly is only one source. Heck, helping to fund a newcomer to the market will help you negotiate in the future with what might have been considered the sole supplier.
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
Now all F1 teams will be racing cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason at all, the car will crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repaint the lines on the track, they will have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally, executing a manoeuver such as a left-turn will cause the car to shut down and refuse to restart, and the team would have to reinstall the engine.
4. When the car dies on the track for no reason, you should just accept this, restart and drive on.
5. Only one driver can ever drive the car, unless the team buys 'Car95' or 'CarNT', and then add more seats.
6. Apple will soon launch a car powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but will run on only five per cent of F1 tracks.
7. Oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights will be replaced by a single 'general car default' warning light.
8. New seats will force everyone to have the same size butt.
9. The airbag and automatic fire suppressant will say 'Are you sure?' before going off.
10. Occasionally, for no reason, the cars will lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lift the door handle, turn the key, and grab the gearshifter.
11. Microsoft will require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of road maps, even though they neither need them nor want them on F1 tracks. Trying to delete this option will immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more.
12. Every time Microsoft introduce a new model, drivers will have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls will operate in the same manner as the old car.
13. You would press the 'start' button to shut off the engine.
SURELY NOT!!!!!
OK, can we please stop all the MS-building-reliable-s/w jokes? It's tedious and infantile.
.....now that would make a discussion ;-)
The fact is that any company the size of MS is _perfectly_ capable of building a system to do this, provided they're starting with good domain knowledge and they _really_ understand the requirements - which I'm sure they they have due to their business alignments and aqqusitions etc...not to mention the fact that this was awarded to Microsoft _MES_ (Go Google) who have a little bit of experience in this area, I suspect.
Who says it has to be CE or XP or anything else based? This is a HARD REALTIME system folks. 15000 RPM, 8 cylinders - go do the math. Miss out on a couple of firing cycles and you've got a big expensive collection of exotic metals that were never intended to meet each other.
Given that I'm not aware of any current MS MCUs in F1 (someone please feel free to prove me wrong) what's more interesting to me is _how_ MS got this gig
Have someone noticed how the western public (cannot tell about the rest of the world) has become more and more sensitive to "horrible accidents"?
In the old days, racing events that ended up with deaths, sometimes gruesome and very graphical (ground meat all around), were relatively common, as I can tell from watching F1 and WRC documentaries. And the public seemed to like it.
If you think that this was bad -- "sports should be safe for everyone" -- think for a moment that the pilots themselves might never have considered the inherent danger of their trade as "bad". Think on how many women the pilots could score when they told them they could die the next day. It's a typical James Bond-ish scenario, prevalent in the racing sports of the 50's and 60's. It is sexy, I won't deny it.
The last big racing accident I remember is Ayrton Senna's. It wasn't particularly gory (seems that a driving shaft pierced his skull through his helmet, but the helmet never came off until rescue arrived and the car was in one piece, no gory stuff scattered), but the media made it look worse.
In Brazil, that event took epic proportions. The country seemed to slow down for couple days, so they could follow the drama on TV. It was an interesting day for TV as well, since the official broadcasting had higher than usual ratings for that week. A week or so later, the body was brought back to Brazil for burial. The guy received official honors, the country was mourning the F1 pilot who was treated like a president (mostly TV-induced hype, that TV channel must have made a lot of money that year). Up to this date, there are private foundations dedicated to the cause of preserving his legacy for generations to come. Kids that barely remember who he was or how well he raced (it is controversial, IMO. I think his success was 95% his cars' in a time when racers clustered in two groups -- turbo and aspirated -- and, well, non-turbo cars never stood a chance and few teams had resources to turbocharge their cars. Just observe how Senna was never able to get an expressive result after FIA's ban on turbo cars.) cry when they visit the foundation's sponsored exhibits, an odd thing since they really do not remember crap about this guy and, for their existence, think that cellphones, broadband and wireless always existed since time immemorial.
Therefore, I think that, while the TV features more and more violence and gore, due to the same TV, the audience grew extremely sensitive to accidents due to the extreme spin TV (and modern media, to a lesser degree) gives to these incidents. People die every year in those super fast boat races, but nobody seems to care and it doesn't preclude the continuation of the sport.
Weird, huh?
More chicanery from Redmond...
for instance... "clippy detects you want to make a left turn. do you need help?"
CrAsH!!!
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Doesn't it bother anyone that one company, in this case Microsoft, is trying to control absolutely EVERYTHING?
Desktops, consumer electronics, car electronics, medical equipment. Where the hell does it end? When MS controls everything and has a GDP larger than a lot of first world countries? Does the B&M Gates Foundation start withholding aid to poor countries if they don't tow the line?
Guess you don't walk either - could get hit by a bus. Or bicycle - same thing. Or even take a bath - you could slip and fall. And, by the way, I'm specifically *not* an organ donor, so my death in a motorcycle crash will be useful to no one (among other reasons, I had chronic Lyme disease for a few years, so I'm not sure if it would be safe for the recipients). Ha!
-b.
if you read the article for comprehension, it is hardware/software that checks the ACTUAL hardware/software that does the engine management for cheating, what MS is supplying is just something they will use to make sure the ECU is not doing something it shouldn't during a race. beasically it is WGA in a box :-) and we know how well they engineered that against "cheating".
Hmm...wonder if the cars will be somewhat slower and less responsive with each new revision of Microsoft ECU unless you do a total engine upgrade at the same time...
Keep in mind we're not talking about something as complex (or rather said, HUGE, not just complex) as Windows, so basically you could assume they're going to be able to do a much better job
True, an ECU is undoubtedly a much simpler system than a Windows PC so chances are there is less risk of failure. I fully expect it WILL be a better outcome than Windows. But the BEST outcome? It seems to me that the choice of Microsoft really defies logic. They have such a small track record in automotive applications and NO track record at all in engine mamagement. Anyone remember Microsoft's last high-profile foray into the automotive market? That would be iDrive...or rather iCantDrive. It was absolutely embarassing! iDrive controlled the accessories on some BMWs. iDrive v1.0 was full of bugs--it futzed with radio settings and opened your trunk when it suited its mood.
iDrive had an interface designed by Microsoft, so you can guess how (in)elegant it was to use. It's like they started with the Windows 95 paradigm and adapted it to a car: "Let's see--we have this idea where you press the start button where you can have a thousand functions/apps reside in menus 8 levels deep. That's so cool we should do that in a car!" so they did--it has what I'd call a "Start knob" that you fiddle with to navigate a heap of menus to do things like change the radio station or adjust the temperature. Yes it gets rid of the giant array of tiny buttons notorious in some German luxury models in the past, but now it's all TOO hidden. Firstly it takes some time to figure out where everything is in the menus. That's not TOO bad but you can NEVER get good enough to safely use it while driving because you have to peer at a screen to see what you are doing. The whole idea of iDrive was fundamentally flawed!
Guess what? iDrive was much simpler than a Windows desktop but they STILL screwed it up. Even when it was all fixed and wokrd it was STILL bad because it was a bad design. If the lame interface was Bosch's idea, it was evident that Microsoft didn't have the nerve or UI expertise to point out how flawed the design was.
Now MS is going to take on racing engine management. They could pull it off but it could also turn into a total gong show--they have no proven track record. The best thing they could do is license some other company's technology or buy someone who already knows what they are doing. It still begs the question though of WHY MICROSOFT? Were companies like Bosch or Siemens-VDO ever considered? I mean--what do you think MS would do anyways? Probably tack on a Windows-CE-pocketPC type of thing onto the electronics from one of those other companies anyways. It'll work but be less than elegant and an inefficient design. So...why not go with an established player right off the bat?
Thats actually pretty funny/ironic, considering that none of the cars have nor ever will have windows on them.
Although I wonder how the other manufacturers will feel about a McLaren ECU in their car.
--------
McLaren Electronic Systems, an independent developer within McLaren's group of companies, is behind the successful bid with Microsoft to supply ECUs in Formula One from 2008, autosport.com can reveal.
Although the exact identity of the 'Microsoft MES' company that was announced by the FIA yesterday was unclear, sources have confirmed that the firm involved with Microsoft is McLaren Electronic Systems.
The company has been an independent developer of systems for more than 15 years, and supplies all the current competitors in F1.
Although MES shares its name with McLaren, and operates from the McLaren Technology Centre in Woking, there are no direct links between it and the Formula One team.
MES's company statement claims: "McLaren Electronic Systems is an independent company of the McLaren Group of Companies. It is a leading exponent of the group's technical prowess and design philosophy.
"Its goal is to provide the automotive electronics customer with a complete range of products that are reliable, yet at the very limits of technology.
"Our reputation is built on a record of success obtained through our constant pursuit of excellence. McLaren Electronic Systems aims to become the world's premier supplier of advanced automotive control and development support systems where small to medium quantities are required."
MES supplies engine and chassis control units in all categories of motor racing, including F1, the World Rally Championship and sportscars.
... is the sterilization of the sport. Not only are they going to a standard ECU (regardless of the supplier, I know how popular MS bashing is around here), but they are going to a single tire (or tyre) supplier next year. A single supplier of anything, IMHO, is bad for the sport. This is supposed to be the pinnacle of motor racing, no holds barred. If a team has the cash to innovate, then why stifle that innovation to placate lesser funded teams? It doesn't make any sense. The competition among suppliers is exactly what drives creative engineering and innovation. Look at the chassis for a good example. Where the FIA has mandated a .6L smaller enginge (3.0L V10 -> 2.4L V8) this year with ~200 less BHP (~950 -> ~750, and Honda claimed 1000 BHP last year!!!!), the teams' engineers have not only raised the cornering speeds of the cards this year but have almost reclaimed the loss of performance by being creative with their aero work. I have no doubt that if Max had his way, there would one day be a spec chassis, perish the thought.
I dream of a day in the future when Max is gone, Bernie is gone, and innovation and competition among vendors & manufacturers will return to F1. Until that day, we are watching the sad downward spiral of what was once a great sport. It makes me sad.
Mike O, KT2T
You have pressed the accelerator 5 times in a row, would you like to turn on Sticky acceleration?
Here are some creative jokes on Microsoft involvement in Formula 1:
p hp?fes_art_id=28614
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.
vxWorks was approved for Formula 1 about 4 years ago. I wonder if this will replace it or be working on different systems.
In the interest of accuracy, this is not MES.
MES = Manufacturing Execution Systems. MES systems connect ERP systems (such as SAP) to Plant Floor Control Systems (typically implemented using PLC or DCS systems, and a wide array of configurable off-the-shelf software applications.)
SematicIT, specifically, is a sequence and logic engine that is typically installed across several servers. You use the SematicIT logic to join systems that don't know/understand each other. I can buy a Blender from Manufacturer A, and connect it to a Weigh-Scale from Manufacturer B, and use SematicIT to make them work together (say, transfer setpoints and collect/store report data and then send that information up to SAP to update my inventory and WIP).
The ECU is just an embedded system. Siemens has experience with embedded systems because of the other components they manufacture (such as the PLCs that do actual plant floor control) as well as numberous consumer products.
As many people know, Microsoft has been moving towards embedded systems for years. This is just another step. Automotive companies have used racing as a way to develop and imporve technology for years -- it's good and interesting to see software companies trying the same thing.
Error 0x000000
Your brakes have performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.
Neeeeeeerrrrr... SMASH!
If F1 were about speed, they wouldn't have a 2.4L restriction on engine size. Or a aerodynamic restrictions.
F1 uses rules to emphasize the characteristics they want to emphasize and deemphasize others.
It's "brakes", not "breaks", and they were called fiddle brakes. And they were banned over ten years ago, not two years ago, thus undercutting your point.
F1 was once about teams, I agree. But now that teams are allowed to have "B-teams" like Toro Rosso which cannot vie for the win not because of a lack of money, will or technology, but because they are purposefully put in 2nd line equipment so they don't threaten the top teams (while still filling the grid), it became not about teams competing anymore.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
If ever we had a reason to tag articles as 'Flamebait', this one's it.
I pity the foo that isn't metasyntactic
Is it a combination of WinCE and TRON - Oct 2003
Earlier this month, Japan, South Korea and China announced plans to band together to create a Linux-based alternative to Windows - Mary Jo Foley - Sep 2003
'When the Japanese government announced it would install BTRON PC in Japanese schools, the U.S. government objected. It called the Japanese initiative actual and potential market intervention and threatened the move with sanctions.`
"Microsoft's decision to join the T-Engine Forum is not without irony. The company was the main beneficiary of U.S. government actions against the TRON project in 1989."
davecb5620@gmail.com
Oh, I forgot that one. But did he die? I remember that he escaped with only a broken arm or something. Or not?
If you imagine for a second Microsoft will afford to make a critical mistake in putting this together and having it as reliable as one would expect, you're probably making the worst assumption of your life.
It really doesn't matter what MS is doing with this. The equipment in F1 races is by default rather unreliable -- even the stuff which is identical and provided to all teams. How often do we see extra excitement at the pit stop due to a non-functional fuelling rig? Yes, nearly every race, so failure rate is with 2 rigs per team, 11 teams, assuming a single failure per race (haven't counted, there could be more), ermh, roughly 5%. Microsoft software will just fall into place nicely between unreliable state-of-the-art electronics and engines (McLaren-Mercedes, anyone?) and driver errors.