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FBI Foils Attack by Monitoring Chat Rooms
An anonymous reader writes "A planned terrorist attack on New York City was reportedly foiled by FBI agents who monitored chat rooms frequented by extremists. Lebanese authorities captured an Al Qaeda member who confessed to the plot, and stated that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had pledged financial and other support for the operation. Although the planning for the operation was not far along, according to U.S. officials, they had already been monitoring the plot for a year." From the article: "A government official with knowledge of the investigation said the alleged plot did focus on New York's transport system, but did not target the Holland Tunnel. New York senator Charles Schumer said: 'This is one instance where intelligence was on top of its game and discovered the plot when it was just in the talking phase.' The Holland Tunnel is protected not just by bedrock, but also by concrete and cast-iron steel. One counter-terrorism source told the Daily News it was doubtful a plot to blow it up would be feasible, saying huge amounts of explosives and a detailed knowledge of blast effect would be necessary."
So, you want to convince intelligent people like those on slashdot that the FBI stopped people from around the world possibly funded by a dead guy to flood a bunch of businesses up hill by lurking in a chatroom?
Shit, if only they had WMDs and lived in one place, maybe we would just take over the country or something.
FUD.
More evidence of FUD from the article itself:
"There was nothing imminent, but it was being monitored for a long period of time," he said. "This is ongoing, that's why I've said nothing about it until now. It would have been better if this had not been disclosed."
A government official with knowledge of the investigation said the alleged plot did focus on New York's transport system, but did not target the Holland Tunnel.
New York senator Charles Schumer said: "This is one instance where intelligence was on top of its game and discovered the plot when it was just in the talking phase."
The Holland Tunnel is protected not just by bedrock, but also by concrete and cast-iron steel.
Who makes this shit up?
They were NOT going to attack the Holland Tunnel, but BTW, it is protected by bedrock, concrete, and cast-iron steel?
More confidence in their ignorance:
One counter-terrorism source told the Daily News it was doubtful a plot to blow it up would be feasible...
But the guy fessed up over a month ago without even being tortured! Now that is real progress!
I feel safer, don't you?
I love this country b/c it allows me to say things like, "This country is retarded" without fear of black helicopters and an SS-type goonsquad picing me up, but lately the three branches have made it so hard (to love them, not to say they're retarded.) I'm glad to have a reason to believe that someone is doing something right in those ivory towers the northeast. I wish we had more stories like this. (Well, not more stories, but more events like this to write stories about. If there were just more stories it would be meaningless.)
I'm no healthnut, but I'm interested: www.healthbolt.net
So, how much warrentless wiretapping and patriot act powers did it take to monitor a chat room?
Hmm...yeah.. that's what I thought.
This may have been a joke, but I've always wondered, all these news stories say "news of 's kidnapping/murder/etc has appeared on an Islamic website", you do wonder, where are these websites? What chat rooms?
There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
This sounds more like some guys mouthing off rather than a real threat. The real players do not discuss their plans in chat rooms. It's like the group from Miami that was "trying to blow up the John Hancock Building". Turns out they're a bunch of small-time crooks and losers who ran into an FBI agent while blithering.
Al-queda used to have some competent people, and they might eventually get their act together for another big act of terrorism, but what we're seeing now are wannabee terrorists.
Call me cynical if you must but I am sure we will be getting more of the "Our system works!" in the run up to November.
Especially since the last announcement by the administration which turned out to not be AQ related, had no real plan or ability to carry it out.
Considering they found the guys on IRC its more likely they found a shower of idiots then actual terrorists.
I think this is very dubious. They haven't arrested anyone ("The principal players are not in this country"), and only alluded to three or four people who "may" have Al Qaeda connections... To me it smells like PR to support the supposed "war on terror".
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
yeah, and it'll all be information previously completely available on public sites on the internet, but right wingers will still claim it's proof that the times is committing treason.
cause y'know, republishing public data is totally treasonous.
---
Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
Sounds a lot like the situation down in Miami a few weeks ago. The government really hyped a plot by several people to attack the Sears Tower. Turned out that those people had no more ability to blow up a firecracker than the Sears Tower. Now we get a similar story about a plan that (depending on who you listen to) either targeted a transportation target in New York or the Holland Tunnel specifically. I'd like to think that our government is on top of the situation but after the Sears Tower story and all the orange terror alerts before the last election, I don't. And that is bad. You'd like to think that our government has enough integrity to provide accurate information about terror threats to protect the public, but it doesn't.
bogus claims so that lazy feds can pretend they're doing work.
Maybe they should check if he had a koran around in his room.
Tactics gained from the war on drugs shouldn't be forgotten =) (ooh look cocaine sprinkles on his clothes!)
You don't have to destroy the tunnels - just make them unusable for a few weeks. The economic effects would be massive.
Lebanese authorities captured an Al Qaeda member who confessed to the plot, and stated that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had pledged financial and other support for the operation.
When the only source of information is an alleged confession of an unknown person in the custody of a government that uses torture, you should be very skeptical. Countries like Pakistan are famous for trotting out suspects and victories in the "War Against Terror" whenever they are required for public consumption. In most cases, these suspects are not available for independent interrogation, and there is mysteriously no other evidence available.
Forgive me for the tinfoil hat, but after the last great victory in the War Against Terror which we were lead to believe targeted the Sears Tower, but subsequently turned out to be a bunch of crazy homeless people, I've started wearing said hat with pride.
Lies about crimes
Is that like wooden rubber?
Cast iron and steel are two different things. I'm assuming they mean steel. Cast iron is kind of brittle.
This only the first of many so-called terrorist plots that will be announced as foiled in the months to come. It's an election year, folks.
It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
If it was so public how come Belgian's own government didn't realize it was there?
Dude, the Belgian government didn't realize Hitler was there, so it's not that hard to imagine.
So was this a true confession or was this a "confession" when the person was being tortured? Now we all know Lebanon would never torture anyone! You can torture anyone to say anything, including confessing that your mother is commie and a fat capitalist in the same sentence and that you are your own grandfather. After all, why spend time trying to prove someone would actually go though with the plot when you can just torture them?
Heck, you can just take random people off the streets and torture them into confessing they are Al Qaeda sleepers.
...is that you have to walk a backpack onto a subway train, whereas you can drive a truck into a tunnel. The payload in the latter case can be orders of magnitude larger.
Lies about crimes
When the next terrorist attack comes you can almost predict the public's reaction.
1. Blame the press.
2. Demand bloodlust.
3. Ask for more government protection.
And all the while it does nothing to prevent terrorism and just gives the government more power over its citizens. That's how dictatorships start, people don't mind giving the government a little more power. And as time goes on more and more powers are given away. Sure this administration and the next may use that power for good but down the road we might elect some maniac(if elections are even in place by then) who will abuse that power. The Romans didn't have a problem with Augustus but they sure did have a problem with Caligula.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
It would probably collapse a part of the roof and kill some people, but it's doubtful it would take out the entire tunnel, which is merely a hole carved in some very hard rock. It's likely explosives were used to create it in the first place.
Since you seem to be alarmingly confused as to the defintion of "public"
That depends. Are you going to somehow claim that Bush's announcement way back after 9/11 that he's going to use the bank network to monitor transactions that might be tied to terrorism not "public"? Or that the "bank network" is TOTALLY different from "SWIFT"? And hey, let's ignore the beginning of this year when DoH!S froze some guy's $6500 mastercard payment because "mastercard" might be some kind of al-qaeda codeword or something, right? The fact is, "the government is watching your bank" dates back to at least the war on drugs, if not to the mafia or earlier. The only thing new the New York Times brought to the table is an explanation of how "money" gets moved from one bank to another.
If it was so public how come Belgian's own government didn't realize it was there?
I'd be willing to bet that half of the CEOs of banks around the world have no clue how any of it works, expecting the government to know completely blows my mind. "They just push some keys and tubes deliver the dollar bills over the internets" right?
Just because someone seems really silly, and wanders around in a robe with a stick does not mean they are not dangerous - sure those Florida guys sounded goofy but on the other hand what would happen if someone did actually hook up the goofy guys with explosives? However goofy they were they were saying they wanted explosives to take the fight to the US...
There was another really goofy guy - Richard Reid. You may remember him from exciting life moments as "I have to take my my shoes off in the airport?!"
I mean he tried to light his shoe on fire on a plane with a lighter. Yet even that bumbling moron managed to aquire explosives and get them on a plane. If he managed, why not the Florida guys eventually as well? Why should we not take someone seriously when they claim they want to blow up something no matter how inept they seem? Would you leave them wandering without supervision until they did manage to succeed?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Terrorists using internet chat rooms??? LMAO! Give me a break. The US government can't even tell a half-way believable lie anymore.
It doesn't seem to be a matter of obtaining enough explosives to make such a blast that would be problematic, McVeigh demonstrated what home chemistry is capable of and terrorists have demonstrated proficiency with other various explosives that are numerous in their examples. It would seem difficult to pack that much explosive power in to a subway inconspicuously. Although, as demonstrated in Spain these cells have the capability to engage in sophisticated implementations such as simultaneous remote detonations etc...
Sly Stallone is way too old now to rescue any trapped commuters in this tunnel anymore. For that and other reasons I congratulate our government on a job well done.
This is in the YRO section. What are the online rights involved in this case? Was there a warrantless intrusion into a private chat room? Was there torture involved? I didn't see anything in the article to indicate anything to be concerned about. (Including that the plot might be successful, or that anyone's civil right had been threatened.) This just looks like another feeble attempt at an attack, good FBI investigation, and politicians trying to look like they're winning the war on terror before the elections.
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
That's no excuse. All of the material on quantum physics is public, but it's a Hell of a lot easier to learn from a well-written textbook. Presentation matters. The terrorists in question clearly hadn't put 2 and 2 together before the NYT article, because the SWIFT-monitoring plan was working. Now: not so much.
The NYT published the article knowing it would damage national security, but hey, they made a buck! As long as a major corporation makes money, I guess it's OK?
Of course, at the rate that the credibility of the NYT is falling, they'll be able to use the same defense as the Weekly World News before long: everyone knows we just make stuff up, and no reasonable man would believe anything he reads in our paper.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Frankly, I am appalled that the NY Times^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D FBI has leaked information about a secret terrorist-tracking program. The NY Times^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D FBI has endangered the American people and should be punished as a terrorist. This secret program to track bank accounts^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D chat rooms relied upon secrecy for success and now that the NY Times^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D FBI has blown this program wide open, we are now at risk.
Why does the NY Times^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D FBI hate America? Why?
We managed to bust the dumb terrorists.
Personally, I'd feel safer had we gotten the smart ones.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
They were not on the street. They were living in a warehouse, which means they had some money... more like a cult really.
As for the "Wal-Mart" guns, sure you can get a few guns but those are little good if you're looking to take out a building or a large number of people. Wal-Mart doesn't sell dynamite you know. It's substiantally harder to get real explosives, and that is what they were asking after.
Now I don't know about you but at the point where a cult starts asking after high explosives I'd say that's a good time to reel them in. Perhaps the publicity around the case is suspect but not the actual action of arresting people with a stated goal of killing people and asking for high explosives to do so from someone they think can provide them. I can't send out death threats with impunity and neither should they be able to.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'd venture to guess that we're on the verge of world war 3 with north korea. You know, the one who claims to have WMDs, who is firing missiles towards Hawaii, and threatens people if they just look at him funny. Oh, he also kills every twin born in his country because a psychic told him that a twin would kill him. Saddam is practically a moron in a bunny suit compared to this guy, but with him, we are determined to try to let sanctions work. A guy who says he has no WMD, who only has real issues with countries next door, shit, let's invade and bring him to trial. Oh yeah, north korea doesn't have oil. Nevermind.
today is spelling optional day.
Yes, or maybe it's legit. I understand not trusting "the man" and political tactics, but there are definately a percentage of attempts that the FBI are affecting. The people that work there care just as much about protecting the country as you do, even if they always can't do something about it. I wonder sometimes how many "attempts" they don't publicize, simply to prevent the "other side" from knowing what they are up to. Hey I don't trust the higher-level government just like most people, but not all of them are idiots.
There are 10 types of people in the world; those who can read binary, and those who can't.