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Unmaking Motorola's Q
conq writes "BusinessWeek has a breakdown of Motorola's Q Phone, looking at the cost of each of its components. From the article:
'It costs Motorola about $158 to build the phone. That includes components and assembly but excludes other expenses such as marketing, distribution, and licensing fees to Microsoft, which makes the phone's Windows Mobile operating system.' By comparaison, the BlackBerry 8700, only costs $123 according to the article. The difference between the two, the BlackBerry 'doesn't play video or music, and unlike the Q, it doesn't have a camera.'"
My god....mon dieu!! etc... 158$ must turn into what? 500$ retail? Have fun losing that phone.
Of course it'd be nice if cell companies both offered this monstrocity of a money pit and the el-cheapo phones that companies like Moto make as well. You know, that whole "free market" thingy...
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
The Motorola Q is quite apptly named for such a distinguished race of beins as "The Q". The Q need a communicator that is very agile and capable to match their omnipotentance, and of course the Blackberry won't cut it without its video and camera. Humph.
Is there an option not to buy a Windows License?!
The Moto A1200 MING is Motorola's real bad ass. When does that come to Amerika (a.k.a. backwater of mobile phone technology)?
I'm always a little shocked when I see things like this.
It's quite difficult to gauge the true cost of a consumer device when you don't know:
- Component purchase volumes and associated discounts
- Overhead (R&D, administrative costs)
- IP licensing - both for the finished good and associated components (patent fees, etc.)
- Who manufactured certain key components (the LCD is mentioned)
- Locus of manufacture (which country?)
- Test and rework costs (what defect rates are expected of raw components and finished assemblies, what quality standard?)
Am I alone in not being attracted by all these bells and whistles phones have these days? I want a phone to be a phone - I already have a digital camera to take pictures, and a music player to play music. Why try to cram all these features into a mobile phone, which just complicates the user interface and adds cost?
And don't get me started on email on phones - several of our managers have Blackberries, and despite their bigger keypads, it is still painfully obvious a message was created on one. Plus they tend to be sent at 10:30pm...
We have a new joke going around the office - have you heard about the new crime wave of Blackberry muggings? Crazed people accost you, force their Blackberry on you, and scarper.
Do as you would be done to.
RIM Blackberry is the only phone available in the US that offers a fraction of the communications functionality Europeans take for granted. Even then, Blackberry is just a promise given the Reseller Plan's which throttle what little useful functionality is in the device to add-on services.
Camera, MP3, video objectify the space into lust-have consumerism which drives a cultish demand producing absolutely no redeeming downpayment on the future.
It didn't use the neutered smart-phone version of Windows Mobile. If it used the regular version of windows mobile (like that on PPC's) then I would be interested...
I think you actually mean licensing "subsidies".
The Nokia E61 has a nicer operating system than the Q, Blackberry, or Treo, it's small, mature, and high quality. (Despite the European web site, you can order it in the US from on-line dealers.)
Worst handheld ever.
Terrible attempt at mimicking the blackberry clickwheel design. No thank you Motowhorola, I'll stick with my Blackberry. Atleast I don't have to reboot it twice an hour, and recharge every hour as well. And it actually integrates all its functions intuitively!
...is that the Blackberry WORKS! Those Q's are nice to look at but terrible to use. We bought 6 at work when they first came out, 4 have been returned in favor of the Blackberry. The Blackberry does less, but it's reliable. Here's the mini-review I give to everyone at work who asks about them:
The Good:
-The screen is nice, bright, easy to read indoors, and a nice size in general.
-The general form factor. I like thin devices and the Q is that, it doesn't seem to have unneeded bulk.
-The network. Some like it, some hate it, but few will argue that Verizon's EVDO network is fast where you can get it. Allows for streaming a Slingbox nicely.
The Bad:
-Most of the problems can in some way be related back to Windows Mobile SMARTPHONE Edition. Had they gone with the full PocketPC software (and required touchscreen) the interface would be less awkward to move around in and you could do simple things like, oh I don't know, switch back to that task in the background?
-The keyboard...sucks. Most similar devices (mostly referring to Blackberries, Palm Treo's, and a couple others) have standardized portions of the key layout. For instance the backspace key is next to the L key so it's easy to get to since you typo a lot on small keyboards. On the Q it's a flat button, unlike the letters, up near the D-Pad and easy to miss (actually had someone ask me where it was after they had been using it for a week). The Enter key is where the backspace key should be (you can imagine what problems THAT causes), the only shift key is on the right side of the keyboard near the bottom (unlike the others). And in general the keyboard just doesn't have a good "feel" to it.
-The scroll-wheel, they should have left it off completely. The Smartphone interface wasn't designed for it. I believe they only put it on their to lure the Blackberry users, which is fine if it actually behaved like the Blackberry's, but it doesn't. You can't use it as the primary navigation tool like the Blackberry (you can only scroll vertically), and it is slow to respond to any input. Even the little bump they put around it to supposedly protect it from accidental activation hinders its usefulness.
-Stability, or lack there-of, may relate back to the Windows Smartphone OS, but we have other Smartphones that are MUCH, MUCH more stable. The Q will get hung up on the simplest tasks. If it's not freezing completely, it has dropped the network and won't reconnect until you reboot.
-No push-mail. They didn't ship the Q with the AKU2 service pack so it can't use Exchange Mobility push mail. That would be fine, because we have a Goodlink server, but Goodlink doesn't run well on the device due to the Smartphone interface. For one thing, we require a password, but on Smartphones Goodlink limits passwords to just numbers which require the use of the ALT key on the Q.
-It just seems slow. Nothing on the device seems to launch, run or close fast. In fact I often find myself setting it down while waiting for it to do something.
-Battery life...painful. My Blackberry will usually last about 4 days if only used for e-mail, 2-3 if using the cell phone. Motorola Q: 13 hours, which is coincidentally the exact amount of time one user's relationship with the device lasted.
-Charging. It has a mini-USB plug so you should be able to charge it anywhere, right? Wrong. If you want to charge it from a computer you have to have the POS ActiveSync software installed. If you want to charge it from the wall, you'd better have brought your Motorola USB charger because 70% of the mini-USB chargers I have tried won't work. Some will power the device but not charge the battery and some won't even register. It's not the amount of power either. I have one that provides up to 1100mA while the Motorola one provides 800mA, but it won't work. I haven't figured out why yet.
Cheap build quality. While we haven't damaged any, they just don't feel very durable. I've dropped, tossed, kicked and stepped on my Blackberry. I dare not set the Q down on a table hard, it feels l
I think it's interesting with all of the power of the web that some news sites, generally seems to be the sites of more traditional media, neglect to furnish a basic image of the device or subject in question. I'm interested in a photo just because I've never heard of or seen this thing.
Google Image Link
So A phone that sends email... my cable company gives me phone service, my phone company gives me TV and Internet, My Email portal sends sms alerts to my phone, which can take pictures, my digital camera records videos and my video camera takes pictures...
Makes me wonder what does my wife do when I'm not home...
The future will take care of itself.. It has in the past
Bleh. Wake me up in 6 or 7 years when they've got all this BS sorted out...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Once you step into a Treo, you will find it hard to go back to a "regular phone."
I have internet access all the time, everywhere. I can buy from Woot, Ticketmaster, I can read my favorite blogs, and I get to see regular web pages... not just those wimply little itty-bitty text pages made for weenie cell phones.
I have a 1 Gig SD card, and a set of Shure e4c in-ear headphones. I have 900 meg of MP3's which is just perfect for an airplane flight. I store an additional 50 meg of files, and have 50 meg free.
I have instant corporate email (same as a blackberry), along with Outlook calendar and contacts. I can also open and use Excel, PowerPoint, and Word.
It's a business tool. I can plug it into my laptop, and use it for internet access for my laptop... 40K throughput is fairly easy to get.
Go ahead. Carry your iPod, your phone, your camera, and all the other junk you seem to want to carry. I'll just carry my Treo... thank you very much.
Granted, the customers are the carriers, but the carriers put in a considerable effort to please the customers with their phone choices.
/. crowd to believe but the carriers push their phone offerings toward the geeky side of the curve and away from the center of mass for their customers' level of tech savvy. Really they do. For the noble, pure and altruistic purpose of marketing more expensive techy services like MMS and GPRS/EDGE/UMTS etc.
The problems that limit choice are the combinatorial effect of:
Most users not being geeks.
Each power-user handset having a considerable cost in training Customer Care folk.
Many geeks want their toys for the cost of the parts, never for the MSRP (the cheapskate factor).
So the carriers pick limited set of power-phones and the rest "as cool as they can get their hands on." What outsells the marvelous powerful sophisticated Treo650 by an enormous margin? The Razr.
This will be hard for the
If you pick from among carriers that use open standards you do have choices. My favorite carrier doesn't sell the SonyEricsson 910, the Nokia 6680 or the Treo650, but I was able to slip my SIM into each of them and give them a good college try. This, because GSM is an open standard. Fighting my own cheapskate daemons, I went out to PalmOne and purchased the Unlocked (unsubsidized) Treo650 and haven't ever regretted it.
We tried the Q at my office and discovered many of the same things. We tried running the MNotes client on it and the UI was terrible to use for that. Luckily, our Verizon rep let us trade it back in on a Treo 700w, which is much, much nicer to use, although it is much more expensive.
I had (lost it at the dump) audiovox smart phone with Windows Mobile. I also carry a Blackberry on a rotating basis for support at work.
My Audiovox phone had a about 2 days before it needed a recharge, doing pretty much nothing (the screen was in sleep-mode). The Blackberry goes a week (and it's constantly downloading email from our Nagios server, and replying to acknowledge issues, etc), all with the screen on.
The Blackberry did everything with a scroll-wheel that was also a button. The windows-mobile needed a stylus to scroll, etc.
For me, the Blackberry won hands down: the screen was nice, the performance was great, and the keyboard is very usable with a bit of practice. And this is a 2 year old model, that has been dropped in the toilet (and survived) and is dropped probably once a week.
Rim had done an amazing job.
Indeed.
For some video footage of the phone, see this on Google video.
I got it off of ebay, brand new in the box. It runs windows mobile 2003, it's an older phone...
S 266-1000/S266-1000-callout-2.jpg
It'll check email at scheduled intervals (mine's set for every 5 minutes), I run AgileMessenger (free) to keep in touch with people on AOL Instant Messenger, viewers for Word/Excel/Powerpoint, has a nice calendar program, a Secure Digital slot, etc etc. Only thing it lacks is bluetooth, which to me isn't really that important anyway.
It's a rather large phone, but it FEELS like a phone, which I love. I've used Treo's before and they just weren't comfortable to hold when having a long conversation.
Oh yeah, and it has a fairly easy to use QWERTY keyboard that folds out from behind the regular phone buttons..
pic: http://images.tigerdirect.com/itemDetails/S/S266/
I thought it was this Q.
They sure make a lot of assumptions. Some a pretty obviously wrong, some a obviously right, most of them you just can't tell. You can't make broad assumptions because you can be sure that Moto pays a lot less for a battery than Palm does for example, but how much?
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
This is actually easy. Pick a home screen layout that has the most-recently-used applications displayed across the top. So to switch from IE to media player, I hit HOME, right on D-pad (more than once if it wasn't the last app used), then the action button.
:) Of course i'm in love with it.
In most apps this isn't necessary, as the BACK button brigns you to the last app you were using before the current one. But Pocket IE has fucked that up and it tries to load the previous web page instead.
So, I find this EASIER than PocketPC. There you have to hit START, then scroll down to the MRU which is in the middle of the menu. Or you can use a third party app to do so.
BTW I do use coporate email (we have Exchange at work) and I have it set to pull every 10 minutes. I agree that not having AKU2 sucks - how can Motorola sell a brand new messaging device (suypposedly a Blackberry killer) without it? Someone messed up badly. Although I find a lot of your review to be nitpicky (I prefer the Smartphone controls a LOT to the PocketPC controls, since I hate using a stupid stylus - IT'S A PHONE) but of course that's probably due to you being familiar with Blackberry and PocketPC. I switched from PocketPC to Smartphone a year ago (Audiovox SMT5600) and I don't regret it (which surprised me).
That said, I don't think you'll be really happy until the push email solution is out and you've gotten both yourself and your users more used to the Smartphone. I also think it's garbage that I can't read doc attachments, or powerpoints which I get all the time.
It's definitely fine for me the way it is, but it took me a while to learn the way it works - there are LOTs of little tricks about how you can use the Back button, Home key, # and * keys, even the power button differently if you hold them down that make the device a real pleasure to use. For example, hit the green call button when you turn the phone on - BAM I'm looking at the last few calls I made and who called me, just one more click to return the call or to see what time they called. Or I can press right on the D-pad to switch to their home number/txt/email to contact them in a different place. Puts the Call History on every phone I've ever used to shame.
Plus the phone is a sexy beast
.. I saw, about a year ago, which has the sole purpose of dissecting modern hardware into component costs and listing them for all and sundry to see .. anyone know that site I'm talking about? I've tried to find it again, but I can't for the life of me wrangle Google into the corner ..
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I personally like having separate things for each activity; the sound quality on the "all in one" products is always atrocious to me, so I'd rather have an iPod or MiniDisc player in my jacket pocket. My Axim suffers from the same thing, and I'll carry it around for the net and office apps along with a phone because, frankly, I'd feel like an idiot holding it up to my head and yakking away. I still keep my Nokia blue P.O.S. (6010 I think?) around -- my mom had a RAZR and moved up to the SonyEricsson W600 swivel thing, and I hate the things. The pricing on the all in one phones would have to get pretty attractive and keep the quality around before I would consider one. About the only crossover I've had that I would consider wanting anything like this for is having MAME on the PSP and the Axim.
Now, a PSP phone... That's "where it's at".
Afterthought: Something I just thought of... This phone I have will probably NEVER break. Seems like the more features they cram in the less life the product has.
Maybe it's the facts that
A. I don't use this phone more than about 1-2 times a week, and
B. I don't particularly like IT, either.
Or unmasking? 'Unmaking' doesn't unmake any sense to me.
I compared the Q to the Treo 700P. I must admit, for such a low-cost device, the screen is fantastic! It also seems suitably snappy. Even the form-factor is quite sexy (amazingly thin and yet such a large screen). But the user interface is absolutely horrible. Even after using the Q for an HOUR, it was still extremely difficult to use. The keyboard is not well designed but the lack of a touch screen is what REALLY kills it. Trying to type something? The backspace is, well, a joke. Trying to navigate the menus? Good luck, it is a bear.
So, while is has a lot of impressive technology, you better try actually USING it for a while before thinking of purchasing it. When you are done with the test, the more expensive Treo will start looking more attractive all the time.
Now, if we could merge/meld the Treo 700P and the Q and the Nokia 770, and have an open OS like Linux running pocket Opera on it... Well, we can dream...
When will phone companies learn that not everyone can bring a camera to work. Working in the defense industry has made it a complete pain in the ass to find ANY camera, especially a smart phone.
Luckily the Treo 650 was released without a camera (which you had to call and specifically ask for, which when I did the sales person didn't even know, I just happened to hear about it word of mouth); you're still going to pay full price as well.
The Q looked nice, the price is right, the data plan is expensive ($80 minimum with minutes, I pay $40 after corp discount with unlimited data and a few hundred minutes) but EVDO would be really nice.
So please, not everyone needs a camera on their phone so give us the option.
Has anyone ever used this thing longer than it takes to write some shallow review?
I have. I do mobile device development. I think, and *all* of my coworkers will agree with me, the Q sucks.
First off, the buttons are too small if you have fingers larger than a four year old's. The BlackBerry 8700 is pretty good, and the Palm with it's raised bubbly buttons, provide great control and feedback.
Second, they just did *stupid* stuff to the interface. Stuff that makes me think the thing is under-powered. For example, if you have a long list of items, the Q will paginate the list instead of making one long list. That is obnoxious with a capital O. It just constantly breaks down elements into small chunks, adding unnecessary clicks and scrolls.
The core problem, IMHO, is that Windows Mobile is not designed to work without a touch screen. However, in their attempts to make a BlackBerry-like clone, they've forced the OS to operate without a point-and-click interface. And they failed miserably.
You are of course right, the response of the AC who believes wives and girlfriends are property and not people who choose on their own whom they want to be with notwithstanding. Maybe if fundamantal Islam, Judaism, and Christianity moved away from seeing woman as property, they might learn to get along in the Middle East.
push email, cameras, symbian OS, lots of other stuff.
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
There is a *capability* of all these nifty features, but having spent several months overseas in England, France, and Germany, here's what I notice:
1) Despite the promise of all these nifty features, I met one guy from Germany who had them.
2) Despite the promise of interchangable SIM cards, in practice it was hit or miss whether it would actually work. In many instances, the card made the phone operate (which is fine), but data formats were mangled so they wouldn't work.
3) Despite the promise of lower costs, mobile phone service is cheaper in the US, particularly in mid-range plans.
4) Despite the idea that cell phone use is less developed/advanced in the U.S., the market penetration seems similar, and coverage is no better or worse than the U.S.
5) High speed internet access via mobile is a reality in the U.S. right now, between Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint, they all have high speed plans that are available for anyone.
Now the U.S. has plenty of downside, bad phone selection, vendor lock in between phone and carrier, but on the balance, there isn't a significant difference between N.A. and Europe. Get over it already.
You're a "mobile device developer" yet you claim that "Windows Mobile is not designed to work without a touch screen"
Do a Google search for Windows Mobile Smartphone.
The Q phone is the only Smartphone with a landscape oriented 320x240 screen.
T-Mobile is GSM. T-Mobile will unlock your T-Mobile phone for you after you have used their system for 3 months, even if you only have a pre-paid plan.
Be sure you get a Quad-Band GSM phone like the Motorola RAZR V3 (now V3i). There are only 4 GSM bands, and a phone with all 4 bands allows use in Europe, Asia, and any place there are GSM providers, which is becoming everywhere. (Apparently there are some areas that use a 5th band, called GSM400, but that is not used in modern systems. See this GSM frequency chart. You can also look at the Wikipedia GSM frequency chart.)
I certainly don't want to recommend the Motorola RAZR phone. When I look at some of the features, I'm amazed at how poorly implemented they are. Maybe Motorola deliberately makes quirky phones so the company can sell better ones later.
TDMA and CDMA are older systems with much poor sound quality. They can sometimes, but only sometimes, be unlocked, too. But it is better to throw away an old phone and get a GSM phone.
This GSM band usage shows which countries use which GSM bands.
To get your carrier to unlock your GSM phone, display your IMEI by dialing *#06# on your phone. Then ask the carrier to provide the unlock code.
This GSM Coverage Chart shows all providers in all countries.
Find info about each model of phone using the Softpedia phone chart. Note that there are many models of Motorola V3. Older models take photos with fewer pixels, for example.
To change mobile phone provider company, just change the SIM card in your phone. GSM phones are made so that you can do this yourself.
--
U.S. Government violence encourages other violence. You pay.
In practice, however, CDMA is poorer quality, maybe because of the old CDMA systems.
GSM phone information.
...because of corporate liability. If a company officer were to take pictures that were edgy, the corporation may be liable. This is exactly why we received a memo that we can't purchase any phones or devices with cameras on them. Q is on that list. RIM is smart about it.
Intelligent Design
The difference between the two, the BlackBerry 'doesn't play video or music, and unlike the Q, it doesn't have a camera.'
In other words... "these are two completely different devices with completely different functions and this comparision is pointless".
I know only about the CDMA of friends in the U.S. and my own CDMA in another country, and that of friends. It has been much poorer than my GSM here. So, I guess a lot depends on the cell phone companies.
IT'S NOT A PHONE!
If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up. - Comedian Mitch Hedberg R.I.P. 03/30/68-2/24/05
True, bandwidth allocation makes a big difference. GSM barely sounds digital though. I have no clue how they managed to get static noise over a digital signal, and I would be impressed by it if it wasn't so annoying!
The GSM carriers here in the states are either low cost providers (T-Mobile being the best of these) or just companies that enjoy screwing over their customers (Cingular). The CDMA providers by comparison compete based on the high quality of their calls (Sprint, Verizon).
Of course, I am in the North West part of the USA, so there are a fair number of carriers that I do not have experience with.
Cell phones still SUCK compared to land lines though. I hadn't used a line line for about 9 months when I was in college, and after I came back home, I was "wowed" by the quality.
Digital technology sucks!
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Land lines are amazingly, amazingly bad compared to Skype-to-Skype VOIP calls, in my experience. And those calls are free after paying your broadband provider.
Is it so cool to be prejudiced towards a large amount of people ?
...
...
And next to that; with the topics also -under- this; is it so cool to be insulting people with such nonsense?
First look in your own garden before shooting random people; the world would already become a better place if tolerance and accepting would be taken more seriously
my 2 cents; and this ain't troll or flamebait; rather a call to respect your fellow human instead of tearing them down based on skin, language or country. Remember that most "normal" people cannot even stop or do anything against these (holy) wars; because it's (mostly) a political hidden agenda being executed coming from higher grounds
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..