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Writing on Standing Water

A reader writes "Engadget is reporting on Japanese scientists who have found a way to 'write' characters on the surface of water using waves. This looks very cool - but the time required to change character seems very high (15-30 seconds). From the article: 'Liquid-based displays are nothing new -- in a vertical orientation, at least -- but apparently it's a lot more difficult to coax a standing pool of water into forming recognizable shapes and characters.'"

42 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. darn! by N3wsByt3 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "My name is written in water" has lost all it's meaning, now!

    --
    --- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
  2. Neato! by blugu64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Looks pretty cool, what are some of the real world applications of this?

    --
    "Personal ownership is a hallmark of conservative capitalism. And I don't believe I am entitled to anything that I did n
    1. Re:Neato! by Secrity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A hotel's logo on the surface of the fountain in the lobby?

    2. Re:Neato! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's yet another way to go to an undeveloped country and convince the locals that you are a god.

    3. Re:Neato! by The+Step+Child · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was thinking the same. If I invented this thing I would sell one to every casino in existence.

    4. Re:Neato! by ATMD · · Score: 4, Funny

      Standing water, you say?

      How about "Mosquito bite cream $20, on sale to your left"?

      --
      Nobody else has this sig.
    5. Re:Neato! by The+Infidel · · Score: 5, Funny

      Because we are fresh out of glass coke bottles.

  3. Guess what they wrote. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    First post ;-)

  4. Why? by TheInimitable · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because it's COOL. Who needs practical application?

    1. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Imagine a SeaWorld-type attraction where the final act is a chum-filled pool slowly spelling out

      "AND NOW...
      SHARKS
      WITH
      FRICKIN
      LASERS!!!"

      I am SO in.

  5. Not to... by GillBates0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Not to rain on their parade, but these ice sculpture guys seem to have beat them to it.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  6. I have a technique for super-fast water writing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    But it only works with Capital Os.

  7. but..? by dud83 · · Score: 2, Funny
    I wonder if they can write:
    R O T F L M F A O K T H N X B Y E P L Z *_*
    I'd get on my jet to Japan to see that! :o
    1. Re:but..? by 8ball629 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sure, if you're willing to stick around for 6-12 minutes.

  8. outer space by icepick72 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Write a message on the ocean for aliens to see.

    1. Re:outer space by peacefinder · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A freind of mine once wrote a message with a much lower refresh rate... he planted trees. Somewhere in northeastern Washington, aliens (or pilots) may be startled to see a certain naughty word beginning with "f" spelled out over a couple acres.

      Hmm. Actually, I ought to get the coordinates and check google maps...

      --
      With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
    2. Re:outer space by glebfrank · · Score: 2, Informative
  9. I thought they meant the opposite by oskard · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For example, writing a word in water and having the perimeter of the pool recognize the waves, and convert it to digital text. Microscopically, that could actually have a use with a liquid enclosed touchscreen.

    --
    Sigs are for Terrorists.
    1. Re:I thought they meant the opposite by Badge+17 · · Score: 2, Informative

      That would be cool! However, it seems a little harder than this - in fact, it may not be possible.

      If I understand the article (it's short on details) they're displaying an image by decomposing it into Bessel functions (like the Fourier decomposition in JPEG compression) and then having elements oscillate at different frequencies to recreate the shape. Bessel functions are the natural set of orthogonal functions for cylindrical symmetry - which is what the tank has.

      The inverse problem is a little harder - determining the shape based on the observed frequencies. It's kind of like the problem of hearing the shape of a drum. It's possible for different shapes to have the same set of frequencies.

  10. Jesus Christ... by Marko+DeBeeste · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...at first I thought it said "writing WHILE standing on water."

    --
    Faith: n. -- That human impulse that drives them to steal appliances when the power goes out
  11. John Keats by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I believe that phrase likely originated with the poet John Keats:
    He died on February 23, 1821 and was buried in the Protestant Cemetery, Rome. His last request was followed, and thus he was buried under a tomb stone reading, "Here lies one whose name was writ in water."
    1. Re:John Keats by N3wsByt3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nice to see some people still know their poetry. :-)

      ('their' being used lightly, of course, since I'm not native english myself)

      --
      --- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
    2. Re:John Keats by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Nice to see some people still know their poetry. :-)
      Actually, I don't. I just happen to have recently been reading the (science fiction) Hyperion books by Dan Simmons (not to be confused with an epic poem by Keats of the same name), in which Keats (or, actually, a reconstruction of Keats meant to be similar to the original historical Keats) plays a significant role.
  12. Re:Interesting, but why? by x2A · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Interesting, but why would someone want or need to do this?"

    You just answered your own question... see, right there, first word.

    --
    The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
  13. It's like the IQ of /. dropped by Andrew+Kismet · · Score: 4, Funny

    Over on engadget, they had serious comments about using resin, vacuuming forming, advertising, and other practical applications.
    Here, we got a pageful of piss jokes....

    1. Re:It's like the IQ of /. dropped by dud83 · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's because we're science/computer geeks with a critical mind, and they're just technology geeks that wants a new fascinating techno-fetish to flap at *_*

  14. My favorite comment on the site by TitusC3v5 · · Score: 3, Funny

    "That's nothing new. I have a special pen that can write my name in my tiolet bowel water."

    --
    And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
  15. Processing time? by Dan+East · · Score: 5, Insightful

    using formulas known as Bessel functions to cut the processing time down to between 15 and 30 seconds and form characters

    That sure makes it sound like the calculations involved are so great that the computer takes that long to process (as opposed to a physical delay in the hardware or medium). Certainly that could be reduced substantially either by optimization or throwing more CPUs at the problem. If that is indeed the issue then they could also precalculate the math for various shapes, and recall them instantly on demand. I also wonder if this is a purely virtual simulation inside the software, or if the system requires feedback from sensors in the real world to fine-tune the oscillations to produce the desired effect. In that case it may take that much time to stabilize the system because of chaos and the like. I have a hunch that must be what's going on, because certainly these people are smart enough and have enough funding so that processing speed alone isn't the issue.

    Dan East

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Processing time? by gardyloo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Part of the trouble is that these things are NOT stationary. There's only once in a long time that all of the waves produced by those actuators end up forming the characters they want them to, AND all the rest of the surface is smooth. And that can only be done with some sophisticated feedback as to what waves are present. I haven't read their paper, but I suspect they either sense some inductances at the edge of the tank, or do some fancy laser-scanning of the surface. I can easily see incorporating the continually-changing conditions into the calculations as taking a long time. And cylindrical Bessel functions are not so easily precomputed if you need 50 of them at a particular time. I'd think the easiest way to do that is to set up 50 analog circuits with the appropriate parameters and continuously feed in the water heights along the edge of the tank.

            For applications... I can't answer this in full, since part of my research is sort of related. But for detecting things buried in the seafloor, ripples on the seafloor do some amazing things to signals. Having a reliable way to set up such ripples in the laboratory is very useful.

  16. For real? by solitas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I see an article; with an illustration that could easily have been photoshopped.

    Has anyone seen any video demonstration(s)? (yes, I know _they_ could be synthetic images too; but it's more-likely they wouldn't be)

    --
    "It's time to take life by the cans." ~ Bender ("Bendin' in the Wind", ep. 3-13)
  17. Aim here: Urinal advertising by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hook up to the internet and you add a whole new dimension to doubleclick ads!

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  18. this is gonna be great by harlemjoe · · Score: 4, Funny

    i'm imagining a pool with a message that reads "wet surface"

    --
    shooting is not too good for my enemies
  19. If you don't get +5 funny for that, then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
    The Mods Must Be Crazy ;-)

    It's yet another way to go to an undeveloped country and convince the locals that you are a god.

    Because we are fresh out of glass coke bottles.
  20. Epitaph by isomeme · · Score: 5, Funny

    Someone needs to make it spell out "John Keats."

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a skull.
  21. CAT Scan in Reverse by Mignon · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I think this is somewhat related to CAT scans, but applied in reverse. My crude understanding of a CAT scan is that sensors are placed in a ring shape around the object to be scanned and a series of "slices" are scanned. For each "slice", this gives a set of axial views through the object (the 'A' in CAT). Bessel functions are the mathematical tool that let you convert the axial data - which is a kind of sum across a diameter - into data at each point in the circular cross section.

    It seems they've reversed this process and solved for the axial data given the point-by-point data - e.g. the rasterized character.

    By the way, CAT scans and Bessel functions are one of the examples of "abstract" math that later turns out to have practical application.

  22. Re:A new way to... by isny · · Score: 2, Funny

    You mean Aquaman.

  23. Re:Interesting, but why? by Amouth · · Score: 2, Interesting

    you could also use the idea on more substances like say.. epoxy or rasien. to create shapes in a certian form quicker than some one could carve one.. i am thinking for master molds for boats and stuff.. where it takes months to a year to make the master.. if you could put in a plotted file and get a close shape form this thing.. even if it took it a week to make the shape it would be worth every bit of $

    --
    '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
  24. Full text... by aug24 · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Wet Surface"

    "This is not an instruction."

    Justin.

    --
    You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
  25. That's Nothing... by ScuxxletButt · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...I've been able to write me name in the snow for years.

  26. Re:Interesting, but why? by ultranova · · Score: 2, Funny

    Write a message in clouds (yes, that's a big jump), for example? Think of the advertising opportunities!

    AARRGGHH!!!

    So, it isn't enough that every square centimeter of every wall is full of flashing, blinking, annoying crap that tries to make me buy something; now I can't even watch the sky without some moronic vitamin supplement ad getting in the way ?

    Or, once script kiddies get to the wave generators, goatse clouds. Hmm... Now that I think of it, maybe they could put the goatse cloud somewhere it fits - like, say, mooning the House of Representatives, to give them a fitting reward for their work ?

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  27. Rangoli on Water? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2, Interesting
    In India women do holiday decorations using colored powders. Patterns like this: or this Google image search on Rangoli

    Sometimes they do it on a large piece of blotting paper and carefully place it on a large bowl of water. The paper soaks the water and sinks, leaving behind patterns floating on the surface of water.

    No need to understand Bessel functions and Legendre Polynomials.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  28. Additional pics, and this was done in 2004 by riffer · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Here's a link to a PDF document from Akiken's website that gives some more details about the project. Unfortunately I can't read Japanese, so maybe someo kind soul can provide a translation? However, the PDF does have some additional pics, taken in sequence. I'm not sure but it seems like the oscillation affect takes a few moments to build (the 15 to 30 seconds I'm guessing) and then momentarily generate the character.

    The nature of water being fluid means it would be unlikely the character would remain for long, unless the agitation level was very high. Which may well be the case... Water can seem pretty solid if it's under enough pressure and/or moving fast enough. Also, based on the PDF and the Akiken website, looks like this was something they developed in 2004. But presumably it wasn't published at the time...

    --
    In the darkness of future past, The magician longs to see. One chants between two worlds, "Fire, walk with me!"