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Tabletop Gaming Over the 'Net?
kebes asks: "I'm the GM for a group that has been gaming together for about 12 years. We're starting to move away from each other, and want to switch to playing our tabletop RPG online. So far, we've been using a combination of TeamSpeak and IRC. It works, but is not ideal. What protocol/chat service and applications would make for a great online gaming solution? The voice and text chat abilities are crucial, but having a collaborative white-board would greatly help. Ideally, the solution would be integrated (one app), allow logging of the session, run on multiple platforms (Mac OS X, Linux, Windows), work with web-cams, and permit file-transfers. What service or app (or combination thereof) would work best for our needs? Anyone else have stories of success or failure?"
There are several ways to go, but for my money, the best product is FantasyGrounds.
Fantasy Grounds is a "virtual tabletop" complete with d20 rules, character sheets, dice, a chat window, the ability to share images with your players, and to mask/unmask maps as your party progresses.
The current version is 1.05, but a major revamp has been in the works all year, with a version 2.0 due out "soon". Speaking of GenCon - the SmiteWorks guys (who make FantasyGrounds) will be sharing a booth with the guys from Code Monkey Publishing (makers of the E-Tools software for character creation).
Other tools to look at include OpenRPG and Klooge.
I'm not, personally, a fan of those, but everyone has their preferences.
Also, to aid in communication, I strongly suggest running a TeamSpeak server, so you can actually talk to your fellow players, instead of typing everything manually.
Just make sure your 12-sided dice don't clog up the tubes...
Argh.
http://www.openrpg.com/ - wx?Python based online virtual tabletop.
Although I've glanced at OpenRPG before, personally I just use an old fashioned IRC chat room and a dice bot.
--- Ãther SPOON!
Did it with BattleTech years ago.
What would normally be a 3-4 hour game became a 7 hour game.
The problem is making certain everybody's on the same page (and not cheating).
Now tabletop simulations like Megamek outstrip tabletop over IRC by orders of magnitude.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Seriously, it works just fine. Setup your standard OOC and IC channels and in some cases a separate dice channel and let it go. I personally would ditch the team speak, the vocal communication is not needed and in many cases most people I know are better at explaining themselves in type because they can actually work it out before sending it.
I have roleplayed on IRC for over 10 years. Some of my best friends play on there and I haven't even met all of them in person. You will have a plethora of players at your disposal (recommended finding sane networks, irc.sorcery.net isn't bad for RPG). Most people in the channel I play in still do TT games on occassion, but they are more grown up then me (but not that much so) and have established groups of friends.
To be honest, I still think the IRC path works better for WoD games. Honestly, I never recall coming across many, if any, D&D games. If you are a D&D crowd with decent PCs, may I suggest attempting running campaigns using NWN. I have not had the opportunity to try it, but since the game with two expansions and Kingmaker can be had for $30 (the Diamond Edition), it isn't too insane and has good single player campaigns as well.
Otherwise, you can try openRPG, but I really do not think it is that necessary. It sometimes takes a bit of getting used to not having everyone sitting five feet from each other, but you can definitely have enjoyable experiences with RPGs on IRC.
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
And it actually works, unless you're a real stick about being able to see the board...
Skype would work pretty well for this, as it is cross-platform, supports file xfers, and has voice and text chat capabilities.
anata sekai o kakumei surush ga nai deshou? Anata no susumu michi wa yoi shite arimasu.
I don't have experiences doing this, but trying out Neverwinter Nights GM functionality is the first thing that comes to mind.
Have you tried that?
-fragbait
Our group uses iVisit Pro (http://www.ivisit.com/). It works alright, low bandwidth requirement for video and audio. File transfer works great. No whiteboard though. You can also record your sessions from within the program as well, nice if you want to put together a comedy/blackmail reel. Split video. My face on a TV, and the text chat window goes on the GM's screen for our ability to chat privately or for rolls or whatever.
We use a Creative wide angle camera, and that seems to work well too.
We use mic's from Pheonix (http://www.phnxaudio.com/), and have two strung together (http://www.phnxaudio.com/Duetexe.htm). We haven't tried it with more than one person remote from the group.
Sound has been the one potential issue, we like it be as clear as possible on both ends. I used a creative labs headset for myslef. The "base group" uses a stero.
Nothing beats being there, but it's better than trying to find a new group after you've been together for a long time... All in all, it has cost around 600.00 for what we have done, but you could do it with cameras on both ends, and a mic on both ends for a lot less. We just keep upgrading things to make it better and better.
Have you ever checked out Giant in the Playground? They actually play by post in the forums over there. Besides which, the comic Order of the Stick is the funniest RPG comic I've ever read. It actually makes me want to get back into gaming and learn these newfangled 3.0 rules.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Hi everyone, I am in the same situation, left my old group to make my life with the wife and baby to be near to her workplace and distance is now a problem for gaming session. I am planing to start joining them by teleconference.. so it will only be me being the online ressource so i think we will stick to skype and webcam to reduce the workload on the DM since I am the only one who will be with a computer. Someting nice i found while browsing is http://www.battlegroundsgames.com/index.html This is still in beta but sound real nice. it just miss the webcam/voice chat feature.. so this with skype or teamspeak seem to be the perfect solution for a full online session.
Same thing happend to some buddies of mine. We all moved away from each other and the regular game we had once a week. We all use to play WoW at the time as well. So once a week, we would log on to WoW, sit all around in the Inn in Stormwind. We would join a private channel and play (a really nerdy version of) AD&D. We would use the games dice system to prevent cheating and etc... It worked pretty well til we all gave up on WoW.
Playing D&D in World of Warcraft is as about as nerdy and lame as you can get though, keep that in mind
I've been looking for this kind of software for a couple of years now. OpenRPG is as user frindly as open source software was 10 years ago. I'd given up until I stunmbled upon Fantasy Grounds. It is almost every thing I've been looking for. I've paid up and converting it now so I can run SLA industries. This along with Teamspeak and MorphVOX I'm looking forward to running some great games.
My weekly DnD 3.5 game has a local DM, me, and two internet-based out-of-towners. We use a Logitech webcam and Yahoo instant messenger's voice + video services. We have a great time playing, now that the technology discussions and problems are out of the way.
:) We have various-sized boxes upon which we place the video camera to allow the right viewpoint for the out-of-towners. Sometimes we need to move the camera to allow different out-of-towners to see different parts of the game, but mostly, the battles converge to a single area and the camera movement slows down until the "move to next battle area" part of DnD.
Our requirements:
1. The DM wants to be able to move the minis around the map and sit on the DM's side of the table, and wants me to run the tech side of things for him. He wants to be able to draw a quick map or a picture of what we're seeing and show either to the players. This means hands-free communication for the DM and me to the out-of-towners and a picture of what he's drawn, taken by some type of camera.
2. We need to be able to "talk over" each other-- or at least know when more than one person is trying to talk.
3. Quickly sharing a changing map environment is crucial-- and the DM can't get me to draw everything in a tool because of the time it takes to explain things, or have himself draw them on paper and have me re-draw them in a tool.
4. We need to have a way for the players to communicate without the DM overhearing (and without chasing the DM out of the room)
5. I have a nice iBook and an iSight camera-- we should use it!
6. It shouldn't cost us anything "per month" to play. I didn't want to turn our out-of-towners off the game due to service subscription fees "just for a game."
7. We need the tech "out of the gaming process" so we can focus on DnD.
How things worked out:
1. I looked for a lot of cross-platform voice + video solutions with "talk-over" capability. Wouldn't you know it, but a two years or so ago, when I did the research, cross-platform, integrated tools with all other requirements just wasn't happening. We looked at stand-alone video tools running simultaneously with stand-along voice tools. We looked at "camming software" and only joked about playing in the buff. Consider AIM, which Apple's iSight can talk to with iChat. That seemed to be my only cross-platform solution, but the out-of-town players didn't want to sign up for "yet another IM system." So, I removed the cross-platform requirement. Things got easier. Remember, I did this research 2 years ago, so specific details are lost to me. I play DnD now, and don't spend my days looking for tech solutions to a problem I've already adequately solved.
2. We settled on Yahoo IM on the PC only. Yahoo's voice system allows you to know if you are "talking over" someone else because it beeps at you when a voice collision happens. The video support is decent, too. When the players need to communicate without DM knowledge, we just type. The DM doesn't look at the computer screen often.
3. Our little camera can go anywhere. We reposition it according to need. I have a little test pattern placard I can put in front of the camera for when the GM and I are setting up. That's double-nerdly, in case you didn't notice.
4. We use an external microphone, a little cheap one, and lay it on the gaming table between the DM and me. Sometimes the players hear mumbling, but that's mostly when we accidently talk away from the mic (say, past the table, down to the floor.)
5. Sometimes the tech fails: eg: Yahoo wants to upgrade the client. The DM's internet is out (again). The wireless router is dead. The reception is poor because of the running microwave. Yahoo booted us again. The wireless reception failed.
6. We did not get a tool that lets us draw on the screen. We just draw on a piece of paper and point the webcam at it. Much faster and much less prone to perfectionism.
7. Most of all-- this feels like real DnD. The tech, now that it works, is out of the w
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Gametable, by the guy who does the "Casey and Andy" webcomic, is pretty good as a simplified whiteboard. It's a java app, and works cross-platform (I run one instance on a linux system as a server, and the players all use different Windows versions to run it). It's not as full-featured as something like OpenRPG, but it is also a lot easier to set up and learn. It covers the basics, and doesn't focus on particular systems other than choosing between square or hex grids.
No built-in web cam or file transferring, but it has a whiteboard, text chat, dice roller, and unit markers.
While not specifically designed for tabletop RPGS, VASSAL is an open source game engine written in Java designed for creating internet ready board games and miniatures games. There is an extensive list of modules that have already been created and the program provides a relatively easy to use graphical interface for creating new modules that better suit your needs.
One feature it does not have is voice chat, so you'll still need another application to handle that part.
Slashdot Required Reading
I haven't tried it but have heard good things about WebHuddle, which is actually aimed for business meetings (you can even show slides, although for a whiteboard just leave a blank slide and scribble on that). Being aimed at a non-geek audience, setup is intended to be a no-brainer.
Probably my favorite table top game of all time is Dipolmacy...but alas it was really hard to find people that would actually want to play. (i even asked my ex to play for my bday and she looked at me like i was a crackhead and followed it up with "I [her] better be drunk." Needless to say it didnt happen :-( )
But all isn't lost, places like http://www.diplom.org/index.py was created for us loners out there to play this great game.
j^2
I have a slightly different problem. In our game we have one player that just moved from ohio to california. So we have been trying to setup a webcam / mic thing for him to join in. We've been unable to find any decent (and free, or cheap) web cam conferencing tools. We have a group of about 6 that are a good 15 feet away so we need more resolution. We both have broadband and want to be able to push video around 640-480 most of the common tools (aim, yahoo) have rather crappy file size and everyone just looks like a blob. We moved to a two part system vid = DWYCO and audio = aim but it drops sync and is altogether annoying. So does anyone know of a good webconferencing tool? White board would be nice, but not vital. Mainly just want it to be able to push decent size, realtime and with sync'd audio. Thanks.
Another interesting option I found is a product called Via3 (www.viack.com). I use it for other work, but it has some nice features that could work quite well for remote tabletop sessions.
It has pretty solid Audio and Video, doesn't require you to host your own server, has built in Whiteboard and a feature called LiveView that you could use to show another applicatio (or battle map) to the players.
One other nice thing is it provides online storage tied to the app. You can use to store all your game note, maps, and such in so that everyone can view them when they want to outside the game. You can even set access rights on the files and folders to different players to view or edit. So one player might have rights to a secret letter from the king or the ransom note, while the others don't even know they exist.
i'm actually writing a DnD app for a friend of mine that will do just that: chat, file transfer, map design, rolls, etc. i'll probably release it eventually.
As I was attending Origins 2006 in late June/July, walking around looking in the exhibit hall at all the items available for sale, I wondered how in the world a game can keep up with all the developments in the industry... new games, new companies, expansions, etc. After it was over I decided to set up a site to make that a little easier. We now scan over 230 sites each day for news and information, have a mailbox where companies can send product announcements, etc., and post daily news updates about goings-on in the tabletop game industry.
If you're a gamer - and you probably are if you're reading this - you may want to check out the site: http://www.gamerhotsheet.com/
We even offer RSS feeds of the latest articles for those who prefer their news by RSS... something not too many game information sites do.
We'll be covering GenCon Indy next weekend.
Seriously, I have been looking at ScreenMonkey which is a server program that the GM runs, and then the players connect via a webclient. They have two different web interfaces, an "Advenced" mode for IE6 and Firefox, and a "Generic" which will work on almost any browser, including my Treo650.
Pretty brilliant in my eyes.
Download the free ScreenMonkey Lite, with the encounter map on the same page.
The interface for the Lite version has chat, dice rolling, and is bascally recreating having a big tabletop map with minitures.
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I play online at shadowland.org, which mainly runs Shadowrun 3rd edition plus a smattering of D&D. It's been running for close to ten years now and they've got all the basic functions you could need, runs as a seperate Java applet. Play by post, not real-time. I highly recommend it.
I'll be honest, we're throwing science against the wall to see what sticks. -Cave Johnson
I had a similar event occur, where I ended up moving out of state and left a really good group of gamers and friends. I did my research on various tabletop, voice and video technology and came up with a lot of the same information as the others, but I chose a different route. For voice and video, it was absolutely necessary to keep a live communication solution. We originally started using Skype in 5-person conference mode, but we outgrew that limit plus we had some issues with talk-over limitations and bandwidth. Instead, I set up a Ventrilo server for voice. For video, I couldn't find anything at the time that did video-conferencing (vs. point-to-point) that wasn't some expensive B2B solution. For tabletop, I researched about a dozen different options out there, both paid and free. The 2 at the top of the heap were Fantasy Grounds and Klooge.Werks. In the end, I chose Klooge.Werks because it offered a ton of customizability, though Fantasy Grounds looked and felt more polished. Currently, I have heavily customized my game to implement as many rules as possible in the Klooge system, which helps tremendously in keeping the pace of the game going. In general, I have found that some things take a lot longer, and others are much quicker in online play. You just have to focus on the parts that end up taking the most time, and see what you can do to speed things up. Oftentimes, you can work with your players to work around problem areas to keep things moving and have fun. Cheers, JPG
As the developer of Battlegrounds (http://www.battlegroundsgames.com/), I'm a bit biased, but I suggest you give the free downloadable demo a try. It works on Windows and Mac OS X, is easy to learn and use, well-documented, and supports game play in any genre, with any RPG rules system.
One of the many nice features is the dynamic Fog of War, which automatically reveals the map to the players based on the light sources present (candles, torches, spells, etc.) and takes into account special vision types (like Dark Vision and Low Light Vision).
Battlegrounds isn't just for online games, either. You can use it with a projector or TV to replace the traditional plastic battlemat in a face-to-face game session, or even use it to illustrate battles in a play-by-post or play-by-email game.
Note, however, that Battlegrounds doesn't currently offer videocam support (although I suppose you could have a video chat app running simultaneously), and that audio chat is left to third-party programs like Skype or Ventrillo. This has the advantage that, should the virtual tabletop crash, it's easier to get the game going again because you've still got a means to communicate to your players. Inversely, if something interferes with the voice chat, you can use Battlegrounds' built-in text chat to troubleshoot the issue.
Lastly, even if Battlegrounds isn't for you, the "Links & Resources" page on my site (http://www.battlegroundsgames.com/links.html) lists all the online virtual tabletop applications, both commercial and free. It should prove invaluable for anyone that wants to compare the various programs available.
Really, that's what I did. When the GM needed something to reconnect with players far away, I built him an integrated chat system to go with the website that already managed characters, the world, etc...
I looked at some of the options out there, but everything was either a fat client (we didn't want that) or didn't have what we wanted. The GM has one set of screens that show him stats (AC, HP - current and max, init rolls, save/abil checks) and let him control combat. Chat and private messages are included, and we use a web cam so the remote guys can zoom in on any tacticals the GM needs to draw (he draws behind him on gridded dry erase panels you can get from Office Depot). The sessions are logged and can be searched from the world's online web site.
We use either Skype or TeamSpeak, depending on what the lag is on any given night. Some nights neither is optimal, but then we drop into chat mode and all is well. We've gamed all remote and of late combine some table-top players with remote players. Works just dandy for us.
We have noticed that online moves slower in general, but if that's your only option to include guys that don't get to game otherwise, well... you can move a little slower.
So if you can, roll your own... you'll be happier with the results.
I don't have a solution, but I certainly admire the problem.
I always wanted to try this, but never had a chance to.
Seems like an ideal solutions to your problem tho:
http://www.openrpg.com/
Heres the short featurelist:
Miniature Map: Simulate combat with a layered, web base, miniature map. Load any image off the web! Map features include: hex or square adjustable overlay grid, background images, z-order, facing, labels, free hand drawing, tape measure, and more.
Game Tree: A highly customizable data organizer that allows for the creating of custom made characters sheets and GM aids. A plug in architecture that allows for openrpg add-ons!
Chat: A full featured chat system that allows embed HTML. Embed color, tables, images, and links!
Die Engine:A full feature die engine that contains many of the common die roll options and a plug in architecture that allows for the development of game specific rollers.
Game Servers: Run your own dedicated game server.
This doesnt help you with voice and video, but I'd suppose ekiga/netmeeting etc. could solve that.
You know, if you have a little time on your hands, you could:
1. Throw together a database framework for characters, monsters, rules, etc.
characters have blah characteristics
(include a history for audit purposes)
monsters have blah characteristics
(include history of monster spawning / random encounters, etc.)
rules are blah
DOCUMENT how to add more characters, more monsters, or revise rules
2. Define a method of creating a map (to allow more than just the starter map) in the database framework
dimensions
paths
random encounters
DOCUMENT how to add more maps, so that future DM's will actually use the product
2. Write a web interface in to allow you to see a map (or portions of it) with a large "you are here", allow you to see some information about the other players, etc. It could include a history of the last 10 moves for each character. Allow for irc and irc history.
3. Recommend a voice chat app to go with it
4. Profit!
It does not sound like it is what you want, but I have been participating in and running games based on e-mail for over a decade. Combat tends to get bogged down, but our answer is normally to abbreviate combat to each player sending their general strategy and then the GM handling the fine details. For games that are driven more by storytelling then dice rolls, it works beautifully and does not require everyone to be on at the same time, though we have often supplemented with IRC.
I was in a similar prediciment a couple of years ago when I moved abroad. There were no English speaking gamers in my area, and so I resigned myself to gaming online with my friends.
After trying voice, we realized that getting everyone to talk in turn, and notice who was saying what was a major pain, and switched around through various chat/whiteboard systems.
I've tried OpenRPG (not very user friendly) ScreenMonkey (very nice, but the flashing screen refreshes drove my players batty) and FantasyGrounds (gorgeous system, but expensive and only does D20).
Eventually I just gave up and decided to write my own system. I wrote a 1 meg client with a PHP telnet server for the GM. It supported mapping, whiteboard drawing, player actions, customizable backgrounds, player colors, pre-prepared icons and character sheets.
As soon as I finished writing it, all my friends got too busy to game anymore.
I think I've used it once.
If you find a use for it, check it out at http://www.rabidcomics.com/yumichat/
It doesn't even require an install.
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Nothing can be done before the tremendous power!
RabidComics
Most of the good apps have already been mentioned, and this thread is already days old, but you might still want to check out my webpage for other ideas.
MapTool - virtual tabletop
DiceTool - powerfull dice rolling
InitiativeTool - Encounter management
TokenTool - easily create avatars from any image
All tools are written in Java and are completely free. Development is very active and new feature requests are always welcome.
RPTools.net
Been years since I used an IRC client [pauses while his geek card is reclaimed] but VIRC had a whiteboard. That client died; did others pick up the functionality? Never used it for RPG play but combined with voice it'd be a quick & dirty & free (& dated & maybe Windows only) option.
Feeling so good natured I could drool
Actually, I still used VIRC for awhile until I swapped my IRC machine to Linux relatively recently. :P
None that I've seen at least, sadly.
--- Ãther SPOON!