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Why Beyond Good and Evil Tanked
Via Joystiq, a post on the JumpButton blog talking with a PR manager at Ubisoft about the title Beyond Good and Evil. Despite critical acclaim and crackerjack gameplay, the title just didn't do very well commercially. The rep explains why it did so badly in the stores, and what that means for future quality game titles. From the article: "When BG&E was released in 2003, it was competing against some of the strongest franchises in gaming. Like a weak wolf cub in a litter, it was forced to fight its siblings for attention and nurturing. Strong brands such as Tom Clancy and the reinvented Prince of Persia were the favourite sons that year. While XIII, a stylish FPS based on an obscure Belgian graphic novel, almost suffered a similar fate to BG&E, but sales in European territories still managed to qualify that game for Sony's best-seller Platinum label. It was only late in the piece that IGN.com managed to arm us with a majestic and summarizing quote for the difficult BG&E: 'Zelda for grown-ups.'"
The quality of the game isn't that bad, the graphics were nice, sounds as well.
Sturdy gameplay, but too much competition.
I did hate the dutch localised version though, but I hate all dubs.
This is the sig that says NI (again)
haven't played the game, but saw the trailer for the game with my prince of persia game and i can tell you it looked boring as anything, was quite surprised that it was actually critically acclaimed from the article, perhaps most of the audience was put off by the trailer like i was.
I did enjoy this title, very much. I think it got overshadowed by the typical Christmas volley of releases. That, and you have to compete with the general ineptitude of the average gamer.
A VERY relevent story for this forum. Everyone's always complaining about gameplay. Well BG&E had gameplay*, and look what happened. Apparently people were unwilling to put their money were their mouth is.
*I'm playing it right now.
...thinking that it was because it was a self-published criticism of Christianity with nothing in the way of publicity.
After hearing a lot of critical praise for BG&E, including from people I used to work with in the games magazine business, I decided to pick up the GC version (second-hand) and give it a try.
I'd heard it was something to do with a photojournalist fighting a conspiracy in a sci-fi/fantasy world, so that aspect of the game was expected. What I didn't expect was the heroine's sidekick to be a talking cartoon pig, along with a host of other characters who looked like refugees from Banjo-Kazooie. Kind of a 'WTF?' moment that threw me out of the game to begin with. And I bet I wasn't the only one.
I got past it, though, and started to enjoy the game as it opened up. Unfortunately, then my GC's memory card crapped out on me and lost my saved game, and I just couldn't face playing through the whole thing again. So I guess I'll never know how the story turned out. Shame.
You must think in Russian.
...until I got stuck by one of the game's several game-destroying bugs and couldn't get any further. After that I was afraid to play it again in case it happened again.
Or maybe the game just didn't have what it takes?
I enjoyed the beginning of th game. It was interesting, it had a story, it had talking animals... But after a while, there were fewer talking animals, the story got down to heroine-against-the-evil-corporation cliche crap, and it had pretty standard gameplay.
Trying to take pics of all the diff bugs/animals was amusing, but I doubt people cared.
And so I stopped playing about halfway through. I read the plot outline later and it didn't get any better. It apparently even had the standard evil corp moon base or something. -yawn-
So in the end, it wasn't competition that killed it, but general lack of excellence and innovation.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
I really like the formulation. XIII is really a nice "bande dessinée", and I would recommend it to everybody, especially if you like plots involving NSA, CIA, White House, ...
XIII may not be known in the US, but it is a best seller at least in France and in Belgium.
It's certainly more read than Spiderman or the Punisher (an obscure american graphic novel) in Europe.
I can only speak for myself and a few friends, but the sci-fi theme just doesn't appeal to me. I'm pretty sure we aren't the only ones since this comparison got a lot of attention when it was first published.
That's not to say I avoid all games that don't appeal to my senses. A game has a number of other ways it can stand out, like with an innovative fighting system or unique story, neither of which I see this having.
...the whole 'Zelda for adults' tagline. I played BG&E and didn't think it was any more 'adult' than zelda. Maybe they were just riding on the more cartoonish look of Wind Waker at the time, but BG&E didn't look very realistic either. Both are great games, and I don't really get the 'adult' comparison. Even the difficulties were pretty even.
XIII is one of the most known and appreciated "graphic novel" in Europe. In the US they have comics, in Europe we have graphic novels. XIII has sold hundreds of thousands of copies. It's been adapted in a TV show, not to mention the game. It's been translated to 5 languages other than the original french version.
I find it ironic that a game designer claiming his game didn't do well because it compete with high-profile franchises don't know the slightest about an other video game from the same publisher that suffered exactly the same fate than his.
As subject says. It was a good game, but a bit too short, and definitely too girly (for mainstream).
Having said that, I stayed up for 3 nights in a row and finished it faster than most games I've played - it was definitely fun, quite playable, and i liked the slight quirkyness, but i'm probably not your average player.
_
\\/ are accustomed' - First Lensman
I enjoyed playing BG I thought using the camera to take pictures of "bad stuff" and then using the pictures to create public sentiment was a nice change of pace from the superman-vs-lex-luthor model of most of these games.
Clear, Dark Skies
Beyond Good and Evil is maybe one of the better games off all times. I am proud to have buy it and played it to end. Whats lotsa fun. The problem is that theres no more games like BG&E. Maybe Half-Life2 has a few details here and there, 0.1% of what BG&E provide.
Can I recomend this game, BG&E on the same level as MULE, ELITE and QUAKE.
BG&E is Pitfall II only 3D. Is "Agent USA" only funnier. Is "The Day of Tentacle" only more amazing.
You sould buy this game, play it.
BG&E = Captain Blood + Turrican + Elite + The Day Of Tentacle + Agent USA + Pitfall II + Quake + etc.
-Woof woof woof!
From what I remember, the Pig sidekick gets infected with the alien virus or whatever is afflicting the population. Left in a very cliffhanger, we-hope-to-make-a-sequel-one-day fashion.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
Xiii is a, if not the classic franco-belgian thriller 'comic'. It's been running since 1983 and - curiously enough - it's story takes place mostly in the US.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I bought the game (for PC) when it was discounted in the sale, as I'd heard it was meant to be quite good.
I enjoyed playing it, and have recomended it to friends. It was a nice change to play something that wasn't yet another FPS/RTS/whatever that was just the same as all the rest.
About the only bad thing I would say is that it did get a bit too easy towards the end.
I always assumed it didn't do too well because people looked at it and thought, "What? I'm a photographer? and I take pictures of things? F%$& that." without bothering to try it out.
The game was, dispite its generic plot, not bad. But those animals seemed odd.
At first, I was rather excited to see them. I happen to rather like anthromorphics - cute things, sometimes. Seeing them in a game had to be good. But... it was ignored. Completly. They had the appearance of anthros, but that is all. They were treated perfectly human, they acted perfectly human, noone even raised an eyebrow at it. Even the voices. It was as though someone, at the last minute of development, had thought "Ohh, lets replace all the character models! It will make the camera game more interesting."
It was strange, and a little discomforting. I would have liked to see just a few casual references, or a little more character development relating to it. Perhaps just one of them grumbling that the chairs wern't designed for a tail, or a comment about the difficulty of having fur on a hot day. Not this 'nothing to see here' attitude.
Wow. I mean. Wow. This has to be one of the best games last generation offered me with Halo, Burnout 3, Soul Caliber 2 and Knights of the Old Republic 1. I only had an Xbox, so I can't say about GC and PS2.
:)), so who cares?
This might be the first game I played that actually FELT cinematic. The camera angles and the way everything was "filmed" during cut-scene was done extremely well. This was also one of the most beautful game I played on the Xbox. It wasn't shader or texture heavy, but the whole world was colorful and the design of the enemies and environments always felt like a cohesive whole. That's the game that made me realize who Michel Ancel was and why he was highly regarded. I was a bit distracted by the fact that my sidekick was a pig at first, but hey, it's a fantasy game. Even the Final Fantasy games have moogles, talking cats with a cybernetic suit or furry creatures as one of the main caracters (Umaro!!!
I liked the stealth aspect which was a lot more forgiving than Splinter Cell's. There were some really cool scenes to play like the one near the end of the game where you are running away from a mob on the roofs of the city and the perspective is made so that the camera is in front of you so that you can see your character running in front and the bad guys running at the back and you twist and turn your way to safety and you have to sometimes jump from one rooftop across the street to another and the game just switches view and gives you a slow-motion version of your jump and then picks up gameplay right afterwards. I didn't overwrite the save game just after this so I go play over it and over and over gain. The combat was simply, I mean you only had to push A to attack ennemies, but the heroine was very fluid in it's movement and you could turn around mid combo and attack another ennemy. I was really impressed at the maneuverability of the main character. She felt actually even more nimble than Ryu in Ninja Gaiden (another last-gen masterpiece).
All in all, one of the best game I ever played. It's a shame I sold my original Xbox and that the game is not backward compatible with the 360 yet.
I thought it was a great game, dragged down by a very awkward title. And yeah, it did get buried by other titles at release, but that might not have made a difference. Look at Psychonauts, another fantastically good game (better than BG&E in my mind), which got the full marketing treatment and didn't release into such a crowded marketplace but completely died at retail. It may just be that most people really don't care about this kind of thing, and that the gameplay geeks are a far smaller minority than they (we!) realize.
If you haven't played either, go get 'em. You can find them for $10 each. The fun/$ from those two is high indeed.
The game starts with a cinematic sequence. It is pretty engaging. Then all of a sudden, you are thrown into battle with the Doms. These are the ultimate enemy of the planet Hillus and the galaxy. As you play the game, you find out why you are here what you are doing. You are a reporter tasked to expose the real thruth and inform the people. Along the way you actively see that teamwork and caring are rewarded. The cities change based on your progress. There are a very sad moments as well as a quite a few feel good moments. It is easy to identify with the main character.
2 /m/907107432/p/1 It is filled with personal stories of how the game affected them and how much they want the story to continue.
The ending of the game throws everybody for a loop. It is a cliffhanger of galactic magnitude. On the support forum you'll find an online petition to continue the story in a sequel. http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/90810343
It really is a heartwarming game and once you play it, you realize how much it stands out against your collection of games. If you enjoy adventure cinematic epic stories at all and can put up with somewhat limiting character control, the game is really worth your time. About 10 hours worth of your time.
I have moderator points and I was going to use them for comments in this story... But this game is in my top five games of the current (or last) gen (depending upon how you look at it). It is the only game besides the original Metal Gear Solid and Eternal Darkness that I thought was awesome (and short) enough that I took the time to play through it more than once. The game can easily be beaten the first time in 10-12 hours (similar to Metal Gear Solid), but the storyline is great (very 1984ish). The gameplay is a mix of Zelda and (as strange as this may be) that Pokemon Snap game (where you took pictures of the Pokemon). The puzzles weren't as challenging as maybe they could have been, but they were pretty solid. The battles were more difficult, and I think more action packed than either Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker. This really was an incredible game and anybody who hasn't played it should really at LEAST borrow it from a friend or rent it--you won't regret it.
Read my blog posts on usability.
First, there was no option to invert the yaxis on the mouse, an utter killer for people used to it. Come on guys, nothing screams "bad console port" (I'm looking at you, Silent Hill) like missing this simple option.
The camera had a tendency to swing wildly at bad times, obscuring the action
Finally, the game simply didn't run. I got to a place where I had to go to the next stage. Crash. Hmm, reload. Crash. Try changing graphics/sound options. Crash.
I returned it and bought something that actually *worked*
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Here's an extra comma for you, I happen to have some spares. It would look good right after "if not the" Here you go , :) You're welcome and have a good day/evening.
For those of you wondering about the post above check out this link:
The triangle key error
I am not sure if Ubisoft ever did anything about it but the problem was so serious that you could not even beat the game if you did not download the unofficial patch to fix it. It's a PC error and I encountered it during my playthrough.
The fact that Ubisoft released a game so broken it was actually unplayable and then never bothered to fix it, had to rely off of a fan created patch, a bad taste was left in my mouth for this company.
The only downside I saw to the game was that the levels were too small (the curse of the console) and the path through the level was too linear. Another execelent game, No One Lives Forever by Sierra allowed multiple paths through a section allowing the user to find his or her way through the level while still maintaining a linear story.
Anyways, if anyone from Ubisoft is reading this, thank you for a wonderful game.
It didn't break new ground really in any way I can think of. However, that's not a prerequisite for a good game. The problem we have with games that don't innovate isn't the lack of new mechanics/technology, but that they're relying on old mechanics/technology to carry the game on its own, when it has already lost its glitz.
/I/ would blame its failure on. Not the competing games in the market. Some might enjoy the story elements more than the gameplay, like me. I'm the minority opinion and the sales reflected this. But if you think you share my tastes, I strongly recommend this game. It costs like 15-20 dollars these days:P
THIS game however, was very well done, the mechanics/tech were not front-line features. It took a backseat to the game's atmosphere and storytelling ability. Even plot outlines don't need to be tremendously unique so long as the presentation and details are strong.
Great soundtrack, Great voice acting, Fantastic art design(Here they do have to be original, and they did a great job in crafting a distinct look). The developers had a very strong vision of this world and the story they wanted to tell. Despite the cartoon style, there were heart-breaking moments in regards to the children. They were able to quickly draw me in and hold me to the end.
I am hearing bad things about bugs in the GC version. My experience was on the PC. Gameplay itself was smooth but fairly simplistic(though judiciously paced so as not to become repetitive), there were a bunch of minigames throughout to change things up at least. This was probably the game's main flaw, and what
I like underdogs, I like obscure cult classics, and I love innovation. When I finally got word that BG&E was a great game, I bought it and tried it. It was a good game, but unfortunately it completely failed to hold my interest.
Now, the graphics and the gameplay seemed pretty solid, as did the story. However, at the same time these things all worked together to kill my interest. It was weird, because I wanted the game to succeed. I liked the idea of a game without blood, sex, and overdone violence. Unfortunately this game seemed to suffer from some assumptions I see often made about games that avoid those things.
I don't know about you guys, but back in the old days of the Atari and later the NES, games were difficult. Not impossible, not masochistic, but hard. Yet, these games were also for kids. Just because Contra was nearly impossible for a three year old with just three lives didn't mean kids didn't play that game.
Today, any game lacking blood, sex and graphic violence somehow has to be A) easy B) simple and C) uncomplicated. While these traits aren't overabundant in BG&E, they are there. Ultimately I found the story rather straitforward, the gameplay rather simple, and at that point all that was left were the graphics (something I rarely care about). The game was simply too easy for me.
I traded it in after a day.
I suppose kids would love it, but just because they would doesn't mean they can't appreciate something with a little more depth.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
Yade! Yade? Great job Yade!
The main characters 'assets' were not big enough to interest the male game player. The female game player market is not big enough to drive game sales enough to proclaim the game 'successful'.
Or to put it another way (too long for the slashdot subject header) each individual part of the game was great on its own, but when added together somehow came up with something less than the sum of it's parts.
Now, don't get me wrong. I certainly think it's a great game, and I'm glad I played it, and I would certainly recommend it on story, dialogue, voice work, and cinematic craft alone. It's polished well beyond most games, and while I've heard of bugs on the GameCube version, I didn't experience any going through it myself. However, all that polish couldn't hide the gaping holes that were found, mostly in the "free roaming world" portion. While it seems big enough when you're only using the little hovercraft to shuttle around in, once you upgrade to the flying machine, the limitations become very obvious. It only took some 20 seconds to fly across the entire available "massive world". There was only a single area that was unreachable without the flying machine, and 99% of the locations you could get to were pointless to explore, because they looked crappy to fly near and were ridiculously out of scale. I realize there are limitations on space in the console universe, but when everything is was obviously slashed to fit, it just felt like I was let down. If they had created a bigger Hillys than the one we're given to tool around in, with more extra stuff to do, then I think it would really have lived up to it's potential, but sadly it's just not the case.
I, personally, have never played this game but I have played a few fantastic games that didn't do well as far as sales are concerned. Mainly, POP: The Sands of Time and the first 3 Ratchet and Clank games. I think some people(myself included), when planning to buy a game, first try the game and base their decision on their initial impression as well as reviews from magazines and websites etc. I think if everyone did this, more people would be exposed to what games really are good and bad, and games like BG&E, POP, and R&C would likely get the attention they deserve. But I think the majority of gamers simply buy what everyone else is talking about (i.e. big liscensed games, flashy graphics, and games that budget big bucks for advertising). This creates hype and allows games that maybe aren't as good as others, to get a lot of attention, and attract the mainstream/casual gamer. This tends to leave some really excellent games in the dust.
Apparently Ubisoft released the soundtrack for download, so if you want the racing mini game song for your drive to work you can find it easily enough :-)
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
It didn't have new and exiting features, like a port of Microsoft Outlook.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
LOL seriously though, my wife hated computer games until she got her hands on BG&E for the PS2.
Since then we've been hitting Gamestop every month.
Pity the game wasn't two player; we're now plowing through Kameo for the 360 though. Good stuff. BG&E rocked.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
The Tom Clancy franchise and Prince of Persia update were two other franchises Ubi Soft was trying to launch in the same window as Beyond Good and Evil. BG&E was less promoted because someone in upper management thought it made sense to promote the other two more.
Does Nintendo release a new Mario, Zelda, and Metroid game in the same month (system launches excluded)? Does Sony launch multiple new franchises? No. There might not be a cannibalization of sales (different niches want different games) but there is a cannibalization of ad dollars, paying for good reviews, marketing, etc.
I know 'Jade' is what is most commonly identified with the game now. But is that a good thing?
When I think of BG&E, I always wonder how that game would have done, if the main protagonist had been male, instead of female. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think many casual gamers thought the game would be too "cutesy", if they had to play a RPG with a female lead, for hours on end. She didn't look like Laura Croft, she looked like one of those Girly TV cartoon characters you see on some Saturday morning shows.
The gameplay would have been outstanding either way, but I bet the game would have done better if they had a male lead. I loved FFX, but I didn't buy FFX-2. I like RPGs, but I couldn't see myself buying one with a female lead character, for some reason.
Just my $0.02
VOTE!
I first saw BG&E on a sale outside some or another shop in a mall. It was the PS2 version, I had no PS2, I don't buy games without at least some research beforehand, I was carrying no money, and I had never heard of this game at all, so naturally I did not purchase the game on the spot, but the box caught my attention. Not only did the cover art look pretty (just as pretty as the in-game graphics, in fact, which is an unusual achievement), but it seemed to tell you at a glance what the game promised. Some fantastic mildly retro-futuristic setting, an atypical protaganist (a female photojounalist with green lipstick) that looks to be more a character than a mere avatar (there are two schools of thought here, but I prefer character protaganists), and the general impression of danger and conspiricy. I was given the idea that this was an adventure game with strong action elements and steeped style, possibly a deliberate play on cliche'd plotlines, carried through with memorable characters. Which is exactly what it was. Two thumbs up for the most effective cover art yet. I didn't know anything about BG&E, but I went away thinking that this might be just my sort of game.
Now I had just finished Thief: Deadly Shadows, which was absolutely brilliant, although having to put the DVD in the drive really irritated me (I couldn't manage to make a working image). I had played Sands of Time on a friend's computer and had found it very good, so I had no reservation about purchasing in on impulse when I saw it on the shelf at an exibition (the Really Awesome Gaming Expo). Pop:SoT turned out to be very good, but again I couldn't make a working image so I had to use the disk every time I wanted to play. That's accepted practice these days, but it really bugs me, so I resolved not to buy games without first varifying that I can find away to play without that nuisance.
Then I found that I friend of mine had BG&E. I borrowed it from him to see what it was like. It was as good as I had imagined, and even more stylish. It was certainly worth going out to buy a copy. I tried to make images of the game, as per my reslution, and nothing I tried worked. I even resorted to a NoCD crack, but I'm cautious of those, so I decided to try to play it through and set my money aside for if I succeed. As it turned out, no crack allowed you to play through the whole game. I'm still planning to buy the game as soon as I find that I can make working images and actually play the thing.
You might think my standards are stupid, and I should just play with the CD in the drive, but this is anecdotal evidence of how Ubi lost sales from the entire "stupid standards" market with too-good copy-protection.
1) Huge save games
2) Not much replay value
3) Relatively short compared to other games
4) Somewhat disappointing ending
5) Not really a "mature" game as much as a "family-friendly" game.
It got buried because while good, it wasn't better than the competition.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Maybe because the Marketing Unit had no idea of what they were going to sell?
BG&E was a game directed to "casual gamers", or at least to people that don't care about the latest shader effect or technology improvment...
And Ubisoft had no idea how to show it to the public.The closest thing the have ever produced is Rayman, and it was presented the same way : Like a childish Platform Game.
PR:"what? No Uber shader Effects? No 14.540 different weapons? NO EXTREME VIOLENCE? How we should sell this stuff???"
So it was basically discarded, giving more attention to Price of Persia 2: "Now with more Blood yeahh!!!!11!"and the Splinter Cell add-on "Now You can 0wn ppl online " .
It the same of what happened to ICO: A developer spends $MILIONS over an interesting game,and a group of inept PRs (that just want to get a portfolio to show to an Advertising company ) having no idea of what are presenting, condemns it to the bargains bin in less than a month.
The developer fails and collapses, the Publisher thinks that such games are unable to return a profit, and the Marketing unit leaves to work for a Ad firm as they wished.
The game starts with a cinematic sequence. It is pretty engaging.
You've neglected to mention its a sequence involving the main character holding conversations with animal orphans. For the orphanage she runs. For talking animals. With storyline supposedly called "Zelda for adults" there's little in the way of adult subjects. It's really not as engaging as people keep suggesting. Yes, it's better than the other Zelda knockoff, Star Fox Adventures. But that says as much as saying "it's plotline is better than The puppy That Lost Its Way." Or whatever children's picture book you prefer.
The clifferhanger ending is also easily interpreted as cliche and trite, and a a flaw. Especially if there is never a sequel. If BG&E stands out amongst your collection, I'd be afraid to hear what lackluster titles line your shelves.
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Open Source Sysadmin
You completly left out the part about how we find out near the end that the main character, unbeknownst to her, was actually a split-off part of the main bad guy, raised by humans.
Technoli
I think that we're overlooking something...
The game can be EASILY found for less than $10 now (and yes, finding it new at that price is still possible).
The game had its faults (what doesn't?) and was on the shorter side, but for the $7 it cost me to get the PS2 version from Toys R Us? It was worth every penny, without a doubt.
I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people here who have played it didn't spend $40-$50 to do so. I'd have felt let down if I had, yes, but it dropped in price so quickly after release that I didn't have to. As things stand now, the game offers an amazing experience for the cost of a movie ticket...and is probably more enjoyable, considering how much crap is released into theaters.
Goo goo g'joob.
...philosopher than game designer?
Of course, his version of 'Beyond Good and Evail' tanked too. He had to self publish, be ignored and live in squalor for years after writing it (not that many philosophers have every lived like rockstars, or game deveopers in in the past). Funny though, I have a copy sitting right beside me, but I'm sure he see's no royalties from it.
Something new, intersting and unique always has first sell problems. If it really was as amazing as what they say, it will be found in the future and carried forward as a classic; too bad the developers won't know about it and it might take a good 100 years until the copyright expires and somebody can take the classic and promote it and make thier fortune off such a great piece of work.
Of course the game could have tanked because it sucked, but I have no idea. I don't even play games anymore, but the comments from the description sound interesting, so probably would have given it a chance, if only for it's desgin and originality. Of course, I kinda like giving things a chance that way.
Listen to my music.
stupid ign. stupid.
I'd just like to add that the text input used in the console version of BG&E with the analog controler was brilliant! I wish the console makers would pick it up as a default entry method. Much much better than poking around an on-screen keyboard.
OK I'm biased, I played Legend of Zelda PERIOD. The original. That's one of my favorite games, obviously. I played Link to the Past and that is my favorite Console game. (Only game ahead of that is System Shock.) So yeah I know Zelda.
Beyond good and evil was crap compared to Zelda. It did have charm and interesting skills, it starts off with a story that sounded very cliche, but it was stuck in a position where it was too uninteresting for hard core games, too hard for simple gamers, and being made by Ubisoft didn't help too much. Cameras and crap like that is intersting but after that I jumped on a boat and was running through canals, this was the begining of the game and it just seemed like it was a one-off level rather than intense gameplay. Plus game length wasn't a strong point.
I am a hard core gamer, I never bought Prince of Persia (still have bad memories of the first, and didn't get into the "avant garde" style action. Tom Clancy I'll pick up... in the 10 dollar bin. XIII just didn't appeal to me. BG&E I did pick up at 20 bucks.
The real problem with Beyond Good and Evil wasn't the competition. It was the fact that no one really knew enough about the game to care. Those who knew the game bought it and didn't tell others about it. The ad campaign was worthless because it was all CG (hint companies, stop making CG ads, they kill you unless you're Final Fantasy or DOA, we need to see gameplay). And demos had begun to be rarer.
BG&E basically fell into a special category, bad timing. Basically running against POP really didn't help. Tom Clancy didn't hurt it but didn't help. The thing is I as an avid gamer got 0 information about the game. For a game like GTA that helps it. For a game like BG&E the start of a new series? It kills any momentum it can get.
You can look back and point at any news article now. That's fine but the public didn't see those articles. I didn't hear the name til after it was out and I saw the ad and I ignored it. It was only a year or two later when they dropped the price that I even heard about it from my buddy who is a hard core gamer.
I loved the game, for me it was right up there with Ico in terms of enjoyment (though Ico was still a lot better, don't get me wrong).
I think a big part of why I enjoyed it so much though was the use of a camera in the game. In real life I enjoy photography and to me the ability to take pictures in a virtual world was great - sure you could just take quick snapshots of things and meet the games goals, but you could also spend time framing and making some really nice shots. I always thought it was a shame there was no good way to share them out of game... that's where an online service with user galleries could have created a lot of interest in the game.
I do think in the end though the overall failure of the game was one of marketing, combined with a way too quick price drop. I got my copy for $10 in December, either the month it was released or just after!
It would have been a good game for a summer release.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
AC is correct about the comma, but your English is still better than most English-speakers' English.
Mad language points for you.
play games with their favorite nigger rap stars in them.
and cannot appreciate the kind of dedication it takes to play JRPGs with real indepth plot lines
I am an elite slashdot poster and am well informed about current events
I really enjoyed the photography too, as well as slowly upgrading the camera. It's a beautiful game and the camera was a good excuse to play slowly and enjoy the scenery! I especially liked having to photograph the male and female dragon thingies together in one picture!
Taking pictures of random animals is not what I was talking about. In BG&E you're basically a freelance journalist whose trying to uncover a scandal. Yes, you can take pictures of random stuff as a side quest, but collecting evidence and submitting it to the local newspaper is the main story line.
Clear, Dark Skies
I'm definitely in that boat. I picked up the game cheap on eBay strictly based on its reputation. I'm impressed with its production values and overall quality, but I didn't get into it. The theme that the game is apparently interested in doesn't seem congruent with the visual/character design. And, frankly, nothing that occurred in the window of time I played it was particularly gripping gameplay or story-wise.
The best game that got trashed that year was Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath, even as far as driving the developer out of business. It feels like there was a conspiracy to bury Stranger. Maybe Lorne Lanning made some enemies at EA.
At least BG&E gets press.
It was good, I won't argue that. I have a lot of "good" games, though. BG&E wasn't the second coming.
The game died on the vine because of packaging. Nobody in gaming gets the reference in the title, and it's too reminiscent of Black & White, which was a major disappointment. If they'd called it Jade after the main character, it could have done much better.
Next, the box. The cover art features Jade armed with a - camera? She doesn't look sexy, or fierce, or engaging - just a chick wearing green lipstick with a camera over some generic apocalyptic background. None of the interesting aspects of the gameplay or the storyline are conveyed in the cover art, and it emphasizes the parts of the story (the camera!?) that aren't as fun.
The tagline on the back, "Expose the CONSPIRACY. Capture the TRUTH," is way too generic. The blurb is short, and makes the game sound generic and uninteresting:
"A government conspiracy wreaks havoc upon the planet Hillys. As the rebellious action-reporter Jade, you must penetrate your leaders' web of lies and expose their horrific secrets. In a world of deception, believe in nothing... except yourself."
Okay, first - it's pretty much clear from the get-go that the government is full of bad guys. Next, there's almost no conspiracy theory aspect to the gameplay, it's a straightforward Zelda for Grownups quest. And last, that blurb sounds BORING. The back of the packaging is just as uninspired. It's just a bunch of fairly unimpressive screenshots, done over to look like they're on strip 35mm film.
BG&E sold for crap because on the shelf, it looks like crap. It failed to distinguish itself from the hundreds of other generic games with generic titles released that year.
Fortunately, Ubi seems to have learned the packaging lesson, by and large. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time was a better game than Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, but it sold for crap because the cover art is arguably as bad as BG&E's. Warrior Within, though, sold much better. The cover art for that one? Stark white background, pissed off guy, two giant curved swords dripping with blood. Straight, to the point, interesting enough to make me check out the back of the box.
Marketing counts for more than you'd think.
Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
I got this game and didn't complete it... well made, good variety of activities/gameplay... Similar gameplay to anachronox (collecting photos, world layouts etc..) But I really didn't like the characters.. they struck me as Disney-made-for-tv-cartoon-show and just turned me off to the game, I just didn't care after a while. I wanted the pig to die and the rasta rhinos(?)... On the other hand I loved Anachronox and I'm not really into RPGs... Great story, gameplay, characters, genuinely funny to me... I would love a sequel... As for Beyond Good and Evil... good game, not for me...
So, you're a "hard-core gamer" who won't bother with the Prince of Persia Sands of Time (which is a very good game, btw), but you'll rave about Zelda, which is about as RPG-lite as they come?
You might wanna re-evaluate your title there, "hard-core"...
Sorry, the original POP was pretty bad overall unless you could master the sword fighting.
The new one DID look good, and did play well but it's about as graphics over gameplay as they came. I didn't find the action that intense, and the rewind time is about the only great idea. Other than that it's very reminscent of a good version of Tomb Raider. (AKA tomb raider with out lara croft, so having to survive on it's own merits)
There's nothing wrong about Zelda having RPG elements, if you want to bitch and moan about RPGs, go ahead yet zelda has been that way since the begining.
All I'm saying is BG&E is not adult Zelda. It just doesn't have anything similar to zelda, while it might be fun, it's a bad comparision.
This game is one of the best games I've ever played. The storyline is cinematic and engaging and the characters are larger-than-life. It's not a game with the barely-clad girl who spouts out so many cuss words she'd break a censor-bleeper. And it's definatly not the bathe-yourself-in-your-foe's-blood type either. It's a unique, unappericated piece of gold that should at least be tried before thrown in the gutter.
It's like a good book with an ugly cover: a big geode in a rock.
"The game had its faults (what doesn't?) and was on the shorter side, but for the $7 it cost me to get the PS2 version from Toys R Us? It was worth every penny, without a doubt."
PC version goes for about the same. The main problem I'm having (so far) is that darn camera (the third-person camera, not the one Jade uses). For example the boss battle in the elevator room with that green monster. The camera for some reason fastens close to the floor, and doesn't track rapid motion very well. Throw in the 'aiming gyro in camera mode' makes it harder than it needs to be.*
*Did I mention WASD really isn't a good way to control something. When was the last time your RL movement was confined to North, South, East, and West?