Slashdot Mirror


Solar Wi-Fi To Bring Net to Developing Countries

JLavezzo writes "TreeHugger.com has an article today on a new wifi development organization: MIT and the UN have teamed up to provide kids living in the world's least developed nations $100 laptops, their 2 watts of juice provided by hand or foot crank. Cool, but - and this was one of Bill Gates' criticisms - what's a computer without internet access? Enter Green Wi-Fi, a non-profit that seeks to provide 'last mile internet access with nothing more than a single broadband internet connection, rooftops and the sun.' Their wi-fi access nodes, which consist of a small solar panel, a heavy-duty battery, and a router, can be linked together to extend one internet connection into a larger network. The two guys who started the company - Bruce Baikie and Marc Pomerleau - happen to be veterans of Sun Microsystems. Deployment is set to start in India at the end of this summer."

162 comments

  1. Think of the possibilities! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now not only can citizens of impoverished countries starve due to gross mismanagement of funds by their governments (who are themselves living very well off of foreign aid intended for the citizens) but they can IM each other about who has more flies.

    1. Re:Think of the possibilities! by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      or maybe they can im each other about the fact that a food drop is going down @ #location and they maybe could walk there and pick up a box/bag of food
      or maybe get online and find a way to make a solar still (boil water and get it to condense correctly and any water is pure water)

      to live well you need to feed
      mind ---- we are here
      body --- this needs work and some fat punks to be Lion Food
      "soul" ---- this is the work of "The Church"
      so in your case unless you are planning on loading a C130 with food and flying out yourself* Sit Down and SHADUP

      (*or paying somebody to do this)

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    2. Re:Think of the possibilities! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus fucking christ... this isn't funny. This is old.

    3. Re:Think of the possibilities! by grcumb · · Score: 4, Interesting
      "Now not only can citizens of impoverished countries starve due to gross mismanagement of funds by their governments (who are themselves living very well off of foreign aid intended for the citizens) but they can IM each other about who has more flies."

      I know you think you're being darkly humourous (or maybe just fasionably cynical - it's hard to tell), but there's a bit of truth in what you say.

      I work on a project whose aim is very directly pointed at improving communications so that people in rural areas can actually find out just how bad things are in the capital. One of the biggest problems we face here in terms of political reform is the fact that there's absolutely no follow-up, no accountability for elected officials. They buy votes with a few pots and pans and bags of rice, then disappear for four years. But if their villagers actually knew just how much money they were making (and wasting on their cronies), there would be hell to pay.

      So if someone with family in the city were to receive news (including, for example, photos of the MP in his fancy new car), it would be a lot harder for him to lie to them the next time around.

      It's not a complete solution, by any means. We only need to look at the state of politics in our own so-called developed countries for evidence. But it's a good start, and a vast improvement on the utter lack of communications capacity that most places in the world have to deal with today.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    4. Re:Think of the possibilities! by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      Therefore, people who don't go to church can not live well. That's so obviously true! You win the troll award!

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    5. Re:Think of the possibilities! by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, it's people that don't go to "the Church". So you have to make sure you go to the right one, or you're totally screwed. You might as well sleep in on Sunday and spend the rest of the day fornicating and taking drugs, since you'll be going to hell anyway.

      P.S. I, and only I, can tell you which Church is the right one, but you'll have to sign up for my newsletter first, before I deem you worthy of such knowledge.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    6. Re:Think of the possibilities! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just imagine - if it is this bad in the usa, it must be even worse in developing countries!

      you were talking baout the usa, right? right?

    7. Re:Think of the possibilities! by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      In many such communities, people already communicate with each other quite well: the members of many villages are in mutual communication far more than, say, the residents of a typical urban flat or condo.

      The law of unintended consequences may come into play: electronic communications technologies can erode social/cultural practices that already exist. Is it really an improvement that a few people IM each other the location of a "food drop" (or, more accurately, a food distribution site - though this is not a very common scenario) rather than having a people congregate and discuss it verbally? Wouldn't, perhaps, a kiosk/internet cafe model fit into the use patterns of people in remote villages better?

    8. Re:Think of the possibilities! by Eivind · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I know a guy in Nepal working as a teacher.

      In the village where he teaches, a year or two back they got hold of a single mobile phone.

      There's no electricity in the village. Nor is there mobile-phone coverage. Nevertheless, it has paid for itself a thousand times over.

      It goes like this.

      They grow and sell various farm-products. They sell most of their stuff on a market 4 hours walk away. It's possible to recharge the mobile-phone at the market. There's a spot with mobile-phone coverage half an hours walk from the village.

      End effect ? The villagers know the prices at the market, what is in high demand and what has oversupply so the prices are low. This enables them to make more intelligent choices about what to bring to the market at which times.

      End effect ? The market is better supplied. They are better paid.

      Knowledge is power.

    9. Re:Think of the possibilities! by giorgiofr · · Score: 1

      Well, the law of unintended consequences certainly does come into play, however if we were to make a cost/benefit analysis we'd probably find out that it's better to have one MORE way to communicate, wouldn't we. This is more about providing choice than forcing a certain way over another. The "residents of a typical urban flat or condo" live in the way they WANT - nobody forced them (or me) to not communicate with their neighbours, etc. It's all about choice, really, just like with Negroponte's OLPC project.
      But really, screw the third world - I want that solar-powered mesh-like system here and now! Why's it always the poor who get the gadgets? (OK, really poor taste here, now I'll be in my corner, thanks)

      --
      Global warming is a cube.
    10. Re:Think of the possibilities! by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      Having more than one way to communicate is not always ideal. Organizations (and a rural village with a fairly unified economy and shared markets/infrastructure can be considered an "organization") often do better to keep communications fairly simple: anyone who has implemented Sarbanes-Oxley compliance can attest to that. Think about your own desktop" how many IM protocols do you want? Is it really easier to monitor several voice-mailboxes, multiple protocols, paper and electronic media? Is it really better that your task bar have a Yahoo, MSN, AIM, and Jabber client? By trying to unify clients (with Jabber transports, Trilian, etc.) it seems we're trying to undo the effect of having more ways to communicate with each other.

      OLPC can be seen as an external intervention into local processes, and a fairly top-down driven one, rather than a bottom-up one. I look at these things through the filter of actor-network theory: what are the current boundary objects that people are using to get things done with each other? If you actually think of the laptop as an agent, that actively shapes human practices, what are its effects going to be? There is a long history of well-meaning, failed interventions: distributing free medication and putting local pharmacies out of business, for example, or moving to cash crops that either fail, or have a market collapse (see the history of the Irish potato famine).

    11. Re:Think of the possibilities! by theLOUDroom · · Score: 1

      Now not only can citizens of impoverished countries starve due to gross mismanagement of funds by their governments (who are themselves living very well off of foreign aid intended for the citizens) but they can IM each other about who has more flies.

      Yes, what would citzens of a third world country want with INFRASTRUCTURE!
      It's madness I tell you. Next thing they'll be setting up businesses and making money!
      They're starving, how could that *possibly* help them.

      --
      Life is too short to proofread.
    12. Re:Think of the possibilities! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Unifying IM protocols makes sense because you have multiple ways of doing the same thing. Unifying IM and email would not make sense (although MSN tries to), since they are the orthogonal. Email is a replacement for the letter, while IM is a replacement for the post-it note left on someone's desk.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  2. Sounds good, but... by bcat24 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If they already have problems with power, etc., how will they get a broadband Internet connection? I guess you could use WDS or something to extend the range, but I don't think that's a very practical solution.

    1. Re:Sounds good, but... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1

      I'd rather have a connection for the x hours a day when I DO have power (which runs all the other stuff too) than no connection at all.

      It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing.

    2. Re:Sounds good, but... by Ethan+Allison · · Score: 1

      Solar-powered satellites?

    3. Re:Sounds good, but... by bcat24 · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I hadn't though of that. One of these Green Wifi things plus a solar-powered satellite transceiver might be able solve the broadband problem.

    4. Re:Sounds good, but... by nihaopaul · · Score: 1

      i'd like to get me one of these for my home :)

    5. Re:Sounds good, but... by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      I'm sure MIT and the UN never thought of that! If only MIT had top minds like yours to tell them they aren't being practical...

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    6. Re:Sounds good, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A WDS grid is what people are talking about. Solar panels that recharge car batteries and power wifi routers. The range can extend miles and miles. You can complain "but the speed would be really slow if everyone connected to the net over one real broadband connection'. Yep, but 2kb/second is 2kb/second more than 0kb/second (which is what they have now). Further, over the routers they can connect to each other at much faster speeds. Sure its a primitive communications link, but in places where no infrastructure exists, you can still call a doctor, find out news, learn about your neighbours, learn how to dig wells with clean water, learn about disease(s) and how to avoid them, learn better farming practices, find out where aid workers/NGO's are visiting, etc. A distributed internet network is a strong democratizing force --it isn't like a state sponsored radio station. If people are mad and want change, the radio might not say so, but the web? You bet!

  3. So by Brieeyebarr · · Score: 0

    They're jusr repeaters that run on solar energy ...

    1. Re:So by SIGALRM · · Score: 3, Insightful
      They're jusr repeaters that run on solar energy ...
      True, but it's beauty is it's simplicity. Remember Teledesic? A low-earth-orbital (LEO) sattelite system capable of bringing internet access to the world through "spread-slotted Aloha" algorithms, etc. Even McCaw, Gates and al-Talwaleed's big money couldn't produce results, and Teledesic is (by all accounts) a dead idea.

      So, I tend to like seeing these "brick-and-mortar"--and workable--solutions actually come to market.
      --
      Sigs cause cancer.
    2. Re:So by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1
      X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIV IR US-TEST-FILE!$H+H*
      A bit off topic, but that won't trigger anything, since that sig must be the beginning of the a file, not in the middle or at the end.
      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    3. Re:So by SIGALRM · · Score: 1

      A bit off topic? ... and yes, I'm well aware of this.

      --
      Sigs cause cancer.
  4. It's a Sunny day by Joebert · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What's with people leaving Sun Microsystems & starting theese great projects to bring people & information together ?

    Didn't someone on the top of Googles command chain come from Sun ?

    Sun may produce some seemingly "bloated" stuff, but they damn sure produce some fine people also.

    --
    Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    1. Re:It's a Sunny day by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 1

      It looks more like they are expelling some fine people and keeping only schwartz and gosling to close the show.

      --
      Your ad could be here!
    2. Re:It's a Sunny day by Joebert · · Score: 1

      Whatever floats your boat.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
  5. Justice at last!!! by Harmonious+Botch · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now Indians will have to deal with Indian tech support.

    1. Re:Justice at last!!! by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 1

      Justice would be to force them to deal with an American who hardly speaks their language and whose only reference to solar-powered Wi-Fi is a Slashdot article.

    2. Re:Justice at last!!! by pimpkracker69 · · Score: 1

      Well played, sir. Kudos to you:)

    3. Re:Justice at last!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Indian Accent:

      I'm sorry sir. You say it is day-time, you are not sitting under a tree, and there is only one cloud in the sky. Let us wait until that cloud leaves before we say your internet is broken. Thank you, call again.
    4. Re:Justice at last!!! by misanthrope101 · · Score: 2, Funny
      Now Indians will have to deal with Indian tech support.
      No, justice must prevail. Tech support for all calls originating in India will be rerouted to rural Alabama, Mississippi, and deepest Brooklyn. For your convenience, all helpdesk employees will have a comprehensive binder that covers all congingencies. It will be written, of course, in Hindi.
  6. have they been to tthe 'least developed nations'? by rufusdufus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Its hard to believe that anyone who had actually visited some of the least developed countries could post something about computers and WiFi to help them out. When I was in Malawi for example, the people didn't know what electricity was. There was only one water spigot in the entire village, at the whitemans church. The only piece of technology they could recognize was my wristwatch, which they were in awe over. My $1000 digital camera? They couldn't even 'see' it: they had no reference as to what it was, might was well have been a rock.
    They dont even have shoes. These people's most valuable posessions are sticks. I'm not kidding. Sticks are fuel for cookfires. They walk all day with a hundred pound of sticks on their back, with no shoes, no roads.

    Now, these people cant read either. Can you not see how pretentious it is to expect them to value a laptop with WiFi when they are starving and can't read?
    Get them some shoes first. That will help them a lot more.

  7. don't forget by rolyatknarf · · Score: 0, Troll

    They need to install a link so that all traffic can be monitored by a government agency.

  8. We need this here, too. by rkcallaghan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For both out of range "country" areas (some of the most beautiful lands you'll ever see, btw.); and simple urban expansion. Maybe something similar to this could spur an adoption of solar panels on homes that could take a dent out of our energy use enough to stop rolling blackouts. Imagine if you could, buying/installing a system on your home that would not only cut your energy bill, but give you free high speed wifi to boot. Most states have a buyback system on any energy you produce, and it wouldn't take much energy "sold back" to pay for the cost of broadband and a profit for the maintainers.

    ~Rebecca

    1. Re:We need this here, too. by Kaktrot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Solar cells are really bitchin', but it takes a very long time to make your money back or save money on electricity equal to the initial cost of the units, which is rather prohibitive for most people. Small applications, like these little repeater/router stations is on an entirely different scale than powering one's home. If this weren't so, the simple economics of it would probably see cells installed on all new homes. Not the best link, but the best one I could find in two minutes: http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx? id=16736&ch=biztech

      --
      BSD: The most efficient way of subsidizing the enemy.
    2. Re:We need this here, too. by Myself · · Score: 1

      If you're already on the grid, then yes, the payback period for photovoltaic panels is a few years or more. But weighed against the expense of running wires to a remote location, the initial cost of PV is vastly less in a lot of cases. When you include maintenance expenses, it's a no-brainer.

      (The word "solar" describes so many types of energy, referring specifically to photovoltaic panels helps avoid confusion with things like solar heat. Really, all biomass fuels, including petroleum, started as solar, and wind gets its energy from the sun too.)

    3. Re:We need this here, too. by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 1

      Ah, Hell! I just realized that the reason I keep getting killed on my game server is that it's not powered by Photo Voltaic Panels after all.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    4. Re:We need this here, too. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
      Maybe something similar to this could spur an adoption of solar panels on homes that could take a dent out of our energy use enough to stop rolling blackouts.

      Incidentally, I don't know which blackouts you're talking about, but the instructor of my x86 assembler class works at Sunsweet in Yuba City doing their industrial automation, and part of his job is to constantly monitor a webpage (whose url I do not have right now, sigh) that tells you what the utilization of the California power grid looks like. Right before we were doing rolling blackouts, the capacity never got over 80%. The rolling blackouts were a game, not a necessity. Unless you're talking about some someplace else :)

      Imagine if you could, buying/installing a system on your home that would not only cut your energy bill, but give you free high speed wifi to boot. Most states have a buyback system on any energy you produce, and it wouldn't take much energy "sold back" to pay for the cost of broadband and a profit for the maintainers.

      They give you something like half what you pay them for power, per kWh, and you need both an expensive time-of-use meter and a phase converter for each power unit in order to tie your power generation systems back into the grid. It takes literally years for a solar system to pay for itself in terms of replacing power that you would otherwise be consuming, and that assumes that you're using the power, and thus replacing the grid rate with it for some percentage of your power consumption. If you're selling back the power, rather than using batteries, you don't have to replace batteries every so often, and you can draw on the grid for your overage, but you get a lot less return per kWh of your power, too.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:We need this here, too. by rkcallaghan · · Score: 1

      Aye, it is true, its a different scale. However, please note that I didn't say "power your home with one device". In many cases with technology, it takes one "killer app" (to use a software term) to turn a piece of tech from a gimmick to mainstream. Look at the radio, once a military-only item. Or all around you, PCs, cell phones, etc, all of these things are tech that was once unreachable by the peasants.

      A device like this could make a real industry for solar (photovoltaic, specifically, as another poster points out) cells. Any company which works on these will want the unit to be as small as possible, which means more efficient cells on your rooftop. Competition will drive down prices at the component level, which means cheaper cells going in to those large panels on your roof.

      The unit itself is worth it IMO, even to pay a premium for. Anything that can help push solar energy in to the home on a scale bigger than a calculator, can only be good for everyone in the long run.

      ~Rebecca

    6. Re:We need this here, too. by Kaktrot · · Score: 1

      I totally agree with you. Now, if you or anybody else is reading this bit of thread, answer me this:
      Why are the "$100 laptops" not going to be available in the US? I assume that's the case for these little router dealies, too. I'd really like to buy one, even if I have to pay a bit more than somebody who needs a hand crank.

      --
      BSD: The most efficient way of subsidizing the enemy.
  9. Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by Shihar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The complaints are coming, so let me just preempt them. Yes, money should be spent on feeding people. Yes, they need food, water, and medical care first and foremost. The problem is that the basic necessities of life are not enough.

    The rich nations of the world could divert massive portions of their GDP to feed the impoverished world. Even if you could political find the will to do this, it would solve nothing. Poverty is a symptom of a much larger problem. The core of the problem lies in education. If they can be educated, they can save themselves. Hence, things like cheap Wi-fi while certainly is not a silver bullet, it at least begins to pick away at the problem.

    Education is the key. With education and access to information other problems can start be solved. Good democratic governance absolutely demands an education population that is able to vote outside of tribal ties. Educated leaders are need to tackle both social and economic problems, and not just in government, but in business as well. The core of a functional democratic government is an educated population. We can feed the impoverished nations of the world from now until the end of time, but until educated leaders step up they will remain impoverished.

    So yes to those that will surely complain about this "waste" of money, these people need food and clean water. Food and water is not the cure though. Education, information, a fiscal boost once good governance is in place are the solution. Throwing money at the worlds poor just to feed them is like pumping blood into a man with a severed artery; the problem isn't that he is running out of blood, the problem is that he has a severed artery.

    1. Re:Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by tonyr1988 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but what about food and water?

      Won't somebody please think of the children?

    2. Re:Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm going to play Devil's Advocate. I turned out fine by learning from books. Not that I'm jealous, but how many MORE books could you provide with 100 dollars? I'm not talking science and math, but also cultural books. Let them learn about the world rather than post to MySpace. In the right hands the Internet is a useful tool, sure, but 99.999% of the shit on here is just that, shit. Lookit the aforementioned MySpace. There's popups, viruses, and advertising. This is a novel idea, sure, but at best that's al it is.

      Now I'm completely out of touch with their song here. When I worked behind the scenes years ago alongside a bunch of salesmen, the mantra was "It isn't selling, it's telling the customer about our stuff so they can choose. If we don't tell them, we're deciding for them." I can understand the viewpoint of "Oh they need the Internet because everyone else has it." but do they really really need it? Especially at school?

      In my experience, having more recently worked in IT for a school district, giving kids access to computers was simply a distraction. Like that "Oo, shiny thing!" syndrome. So we started locking down on the access they had. Internet was supervised by teachers for research on class topics only, Word was accessible for writing reports if kids didn't have a PC (or more commonly, had one that only ran Windows 3.1) and there were classes to familiarize them with more of the typical office tools, spreadsheets, etc, particularly in business classes. Email was used some times for kids to turn in homework, but email access was typically restricted to high school (partially because of IT budget restraints at the time.)

      There was a structure in place to show kids how to utilize the computer world as a tool. This just sounds like, *flick of a switch* "Here you go! Wireless Internet!" in places that probably would benefit just as well from education through more "traditional" methods.

      Or maybe I'm just naive.

    3. Re:Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by Jartan · · Score: 1

      I'm on the fence about it myself. I see it as a good idea in some ways and a waste in others.

      Classically the reason these super poor regions are so poor is either lack of resources or people with power come in and exploit the resources. Exceptions exist I'm sure but this is the gist of it as far as I understand.

      The best way to help them is help them create a situation in which it becomes worthwhile to invest money in infastructure in said countries. Increasing education levels is a good way to do this.

      The reason I'm skeptical though is the question of who gets the education? If India buys a million of these laptops will they use them all over the country or just to educate a select group of people?

      What about countries with religous/racial bigotry? Perhaps they'll buy many of the laptops and give them only to people who support the states vision.

      I'm not as educated on this as I should be but hasn't this been a problem with food as well? Often when we give out charity in this way some individual in power in these underdeveloping countries will turn around and use it in some twisted way to gain yet more power while doing little to improve the overall good of the country.

      The laptops are not a waste I just worry that they will never really be used properly.

    4. Re:Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      >What about countries with religous/racial bigotry? Perhaps they'll buy many of the laptops and give them only to people who support >the states vision.

      Or, what if the government decides it wishes to start censoring the internet? (Either through technical means or through threats of imprisonment for certain political speech.) Do we take away the laptops? Do we let it happen? Or what...?

    5. Re:Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 0

      Maybe we don't have trees to print books for all billions out there. Maybe it's time for us to stop thinking a book is only something printed in paper. Maybe we can spend more money creating better text-books if we don't have to print'em. Maybe kids will be encouraged to read more complicated texts because looking up a word in a dictionary is just a matter of a right-click. I was contrary to all of this idea up to some minutes ago, but after reading your comments I started thinking that things. And well, maybe it's a good idea after all...

      --
      Your ad could be here!
    6. Re:Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      how many MORE books could you provide with 100 dollars

      How many books can you print for 100 dollars anyhow? About 200? Maybe 400? If you need to pay for copyrights, maybe 4. If it's an university level book, maybe 1 or 2.

      How many books are there on the Internet? (Hint: Project Gutenberg.)

      How about free university level course materials on the Internet (e.g. ocw.mit.edu)

      Of course, language skills present a hurdle.

      But if one out of a thousand people in a poor village strikes gold, it has a very real chance of boosting the economy measurably. Think GDP per capita for the place around 500 (e.g. Haiti) for a total gross product of 500 000. Now one guy really shines at something and starts working for a first-world company over the Internet, raking in 30k/year. That'll be 150 times what the average person is making. He could comfortably hire and train 100 people and expand the business. If each of the new recruits makes just 5k/year on average, their combined gross product will be 500 000, doubling the village's wealth and enabling them to buy e.g. a tractor to free more people from agricultural labor and weapons to defend their new wealth (poor state with low education == warlords, dictator or worse.)
    7. Re:Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We could divert a major fraction of our GDP to feeding the billion starving people in the world. But we don't. The U.S. government spends less on development aid than its citizens spend on pornography. Worse, we spend waaaay more subsidizing our own agricultural industries, in order to protect them from competing with millions of slightly-better-than-subsistence farmers.

      Also, I consider the whole "good governance" mantra a cop-out. Yes, there are many corrupt countries to point to. But even the countries with good leadership are hamstrung by payments on old debts and irrational demands by the IMF. Too often, the cycle goes like this: the old regime is thrown out, replaced by someone who wants to make life better for a country. But to do that, they need money, because a government without money is just a bunch of people sitting around wearing poofy wigs. The IMF offers them a loan, which they really can't afford to pass up. But in order to get the loan, the IMF demands that they do things that will lead them to the Holy Grail of Economic Development: capital investment. The measures for attracting investment are simple, yet cruel: balance their budgets, privatize state-run institutions, and remove any restrictions on the flow of goods and capital into their country.

      Balancing the budget means cutting back on expensive programs that provide for the poor, the elderly, and the unemployed. Liberalized trade means that while people get cheaper goods, the gain comes at the cost of jobs, as the market wrings out the "inefficient" producers. Liberalized capital controls means that investment money pours into the country when times are good (causing inflation), and flees at the first sign of trouble. The newly privatized industries have meanwhile fallen into the hands of foreign investors, who frankly don't care if the industries are serving the needs of the country, so long as they're delivering 22% a year.

      The people look at the massive unemployment and the piecemeal sale of their country to foreigners, and they don't see good governance. Quite the opposite. So they throw the bums out, and the IMF just shakes its head and mutters about how sad it is that so many countries have such a shortage of good leadership.

      Compare those outcomes with the Asian economies, which are growing rapidly while steadfastly ignoring the IMF's advice and rejecting their loans.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

    8. Re:Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by NerveGas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This technology can help people escape poverty. Not long ago, I listend to an interview about the cellular phone networks in... some African nation. One where there's enough violence that the cellular companies won't go in there - the country built it itself. He talked about how much of a benefit it has had on the local economy - and not just because it gave the small, mom-and-pop shops run out of houses something (cell cards) to sell, but because it allowed rural farmers to find markets for their crops besides the (often dishonest) middlemen who came to them. It's benefiting the rich, yes, but the poor are benefiting more.

      I think that this might just work along those lines as well.

      --
      Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
    9. Re:Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      How many books are there on the Internet? (Hint: Project Gutenberg.)

      How about free university level course materials on the Internet (e.g. ocw.mit.edu)


      Wow. What a classic slashdot-ism: You hate entity A which makes pretty good product X. So you propose that the world use entity B's product Y. Except that product Y a) isn't of the same quality as product X, b) doesn't fill the same needs as product X, or c) isn't complete.

      Now how does this relate to your post? Project Gutenberg, yay for them. They have free books. Except none of them are about basic hygene. Basic city management. Basic water quality.

      Free university course materials on the Internet, again, yay for them. Only you might want to get a first grade education before you start in with the quantum physics.
    10. Re:Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by a.d.trick · · Score: 1
      Also, I consider the whole "good governance" mantra a cop-out.

      From my limited experience growing up in the Phillipines this is actually a real problem. Outside of the capital city, Manila, the governments to almost nothing. Even the ambulances are just used to drive officials who don't want to have to wait in traffic. The last president, Joseph Estrada, was an ex-movie actor who made Bush Jr. look like Einstine. I remember watching this dialogue in the morning news one day:

      News Reportor: Sir, what's your favourite colour?
      Estrada: Fushia.
      News Reportor: Uhh, how do you spell that?
      Estrada: r-i-d.

      in the end they found out he was stealling all sorts of money, then the people had a coup and finally got him out of there. Fortunatly the current president, GMA, is a pretty sensible lady.

      The underlying problem here is the lack of eduaction that pervades the country. The whole Estrada debacle was a pretty obvious sign of that. A million cheap laptops with internet connectons is just what is needed. Once the public is somewhat informed about things they can demand politicians with some degree of intelligence.

    11. Re:Going for a cure; not treating the sympton by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm not denying that political corruption and incompetent leadership are problems, mind you. But I am saying that the western world unintentionally destabilizes even the better governments as it goes about pursuing its own policies and interests.

      An educated and informed populace can go a long way toward holding their government accountable. I hope The Young Lady's Illustrated Primer... I mean, The One Laptop Per Child Project can help make that happen.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  10. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by Canadian_Daemon · · Score: 5, Informative

    please refer to any of the past OLPC post. These are not countries in extreme poverty. They have an infrastructure in plance. The projects are designed to break the cycle of poverty. Unless you teach these people to survive in a 21st century workplace, you can give them all the aid you want and it will not help. I repeat, BREAK THE CYCLE OF POVERTY, and the programs are not designed for countries with extreme poverty, but ones with an infrastructure in place

    --
    This sig is definitive. Reality is frequently inaccurate.
  11. Hindenberg by QuantumFTL · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What about Wifi Baloons? This may become very cheap, and cover a much larger area.

  12. As someone involved in a wi-fi WISP by transporter_ii · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wish them luck. In my opinion, using wi-fi for this application is really pushing a technology way past what it was actually designed for. There are so many points of failure and a lot of equipment that comes so close to working perfectly...yet fails for unknown reasons. There are issues with bandwidth and interference from the limited channels (maybe over there with no FCC, they can one-up us on that one?).

    I was talking to someone who has also deployed wi-fi just the other day. His honest opinion of his equipment was that the companies selling wi-fi seem to be more interested in selling a lot of equipment than they were in spending the time to develop solid equipment that actually worked and worked solidly.

    Of course, I smell MESH networks, and nothing sounds cooler than a wireless MESH network...but in my experience, there is also a lot hype there that also falls flat when you actually try and deploy it.

    Of course, some of our problems have resulted in some crappy boards we were sold, but even if they were working 100%, I'm still less than impressed with wi-fi on a large scale like that.

    Transporter_ii

    --
    Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
  13. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by Alien+Being · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "One laptop per kid" isn't necessary. Even if there's only a single connected computer in the whole village, it will vastly expand their horizons.

    One of the great tragedies of poor countries is that a little knowledge could help them make much better use of their limited resources. If I couldn't afford a pair of shoes, I'd google for information about making some... if I had access to the Net.

  14. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by Almahtar · · Score: 1

    The key to advancement is education. Perhaps rather than spending $100 to feed a person for a few months they're spending $100 to teach them how to help themselves. I understand that some areas are too underdeveloped for this to be helpful, but in others this is exactly what they need.

    Knowlege is power. I want to see shoes on their feet and food in their stomachs too, but an intermediate step - education - could have a much longer lasting and widespread benefit.

  15. OT: Tech stuff is all well and good... by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 4, Insightful
    But someone mentioned to me a thought expressed in some TV show or another (West Wing?), that what poor third world countries need are roads. That kind of struck me as having "the ring of truth" about it.

    Rule of law and basic economic freedom seem to provide the best means out of poverty, every time it is implemented, and roads might help that effort along.

    I know building the Interstate Highway system in the USA seems to have done wonders in a country that was doing well anyhow, but how about it? Aren't roads high tech enough to be sexy?

    After all, how do you deliver X (medicine, water purifiers, food, laptops and WiFi set-ups) without roads?

    On the other hand, the cynical side of me thinks... if you put solar powered anything that might have any other use... it will get stolen.

    Maybe you really do need "rule of law" first.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:OT: Tech stuff is all well and good... by chgros · · Score: 1

      if you put solar powered anything that might have any other use... it will get stolen.
      Not if they're aren't any roads for the thief to get away ;)

    2. Re:OT: Tech stuff is all well and good... by ZeroPly · · Score: 1
      And how exactly are sub-Saharan Africans going to build the roads? By melting tar in their cooking utensils over camp fires? Or do you propose we send over several dozen highway crews from the US at a time when we're not even adequately maintaining our own infrastructure?

      Construction of a robust transportation system assumes that you have machinery and expertise, both of which would be in very short supply in a developing country. The only way out of a situation like that, and I mean the ONLY way, is education. You can't plop an industrial foundation into place overnight - you have to educate people as to what is possible, and let them build their own.

      Even "rule of law" presupposes a certain level of literacy - how are you going to codify and distribute your laws if noone can read them? In this case the solution lies with people, not technology. It's better to have a trained doctor in a village who has the bare supplies he needs to function rather than boxes of powerful antibiotics that noone knows how to use.

      --
      Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
    3. Re:OT: Tech stuff is all well and good... by solitas · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Good words, yours are.

      Christ forbid they should get fed, watered, vaccinated, housed, clothed, educated, kept from self-infection (i.e. indiscriminate f**king), and kept from shooting each other _before_ they get to cruise MySpace, Amazon, and eBay while downloading porn, receiving spam (though, receiving Nigerian '419' emails would be delightfully ironic), and enduring BSODs.

      --
      "It's time to take life by the cans." ~ Bender ("Bendin' in the Wind", ep. 3-13)
    4. Re:OT: Tech stuff is all well and good... by Jeff+Molby · · Score: 1

      Your response was simply pessimism masquerading as logic. Using your own thought process, how could we possibly educate that many people when we're barely even maintaining our own education infrastructure?

      The bottom line is that there's no simple bottom line. It takes a constant cycle of capital and education in order to grow an economy. You're more than welcome to debate how the capital should be spent and how the education should be accomplished, but it's useless to debate which should come first.

      As a side note, please remember that rudimentary roads can be built without heavy machinery. I'm sure there's no shortage of labor in these countries.

    5. Re:OT: Tech stuff is all well and good... by Mick_Australia · · Score: 1

      One of the things commonly done in these communities to prevent theft is to encourage "ownership" of the equipment by the community. For example, including an icon of the relevant religion in the area, or getting the kids of the school to paint it (not over the panels obviously!). The key to being a succesful charity, like that of a succesful *NIX tool, is to do one job and do it very well. There are already programs in place for providing medicine, funding roads, bringing in teachers etc. Green Wi-fi's aiming to solve the problem it's uniquely suited to: providing connectivity to places with no or limited power. This is obviously designed to be done in combination with other programs.

    6. Re:OT: Tech stuff is all well and good... by evilviper · · Score: 1
      After all, how do you deliver X (medicine, water purifiers, food, laptops and WiFi set-ups) without roads?

      Trains. Ships. etc.

      Most countries don't have the same love affair Americans do, with cars.

      And in some places, like the Australian outback, the huge truck-trains go over primitive dirt roads constantly.

      The interstate system was important in the US because cars were primitive at the time. Their skinny wooden wheels couldn't handle soft dirt or mud.

      The problems of other countries can't be solved by just blindly duplicating the development of the USA.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    7. Re:OT: Tech stuff is all well and good... by everphilski · · Score: 1

      The interstate system was important in the US because cars were primitive at the time. Their skinny wooden wheels couldn't handle soft dirt or mud.

      The interstate system was a project of the 1950's. Inflatable rubber tires were commonplace back then.

    8. Re:OT: Tech stuff is all well and good... by b0bby · · Score: 1

      A further problem in many former colonies is that the existing infrastructure was geared towards exports to and imports from the colonial power. That means everything leading to the ports, with very little connecting interior areas to one another to foster internal development. Their infrastructure is geared towards exporting commodities & importing finished goods, not towards a rounded economy.

  16. Our inside joke about wireless internet by transporter_ii · · Score: 1

    at work... It is a variation of something like a drinking game only it doesn't involve drinking. It works like this. Every time you hear someone mention the words "mailbox money" in the same sentence as wireless Internet, you must immediately pull out a knife and jab them in the stomach. Then, as fast as you can, you must find the closest available dumpster and throw the body in it. And hey, it is actually a lot more fun that it sounds. (To stay somewhat on topic, at least the people in India aren't going to be trying to make a profit off of what they are doing). Transporter_ii

    --
    Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
  17. the flies will come through the tubes! by User+956 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now not only can citizens of impoverished countries starve due to gross mismanagement of funds by their governments (who are themselves living very well off of foreign aid intended for the citizens) but they can IM each other about who has more flies.

    Not exactly. The number of flies in each location will stabilize, as the flies travel through the series of tubes that make up the internet. Don't get me wrong: the internet is not a truck. So don't even think that it is.

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:the flies will come through the tubes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      June 28th, 2006 called, and they want their joke back. Thanks.

    2. Re:the flies will come through the tubes! by hawfizzle · · Score: 1

      this post is much funnier than the original post, which is really not funny.

    3. Re:the flies will come through the tubes! by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but if the people are starving (and what people outside of the U.S., Europe, and a couple of Asian Nations aren't), then the files will be skinnier and will move thru the tubes more easily. Thus, file equilibrium through T2T file sharing will happen quicker and with a lot less lube.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    4. Re:the flies will come through the tubes! by instantkamera · · Score: 1

      ONLY 0-DAY JOKEZ! 1337!!

  18. Isnt going to help by Venim · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Unfortunately as many people have pointed out, most people in these impoverished countries have very little knowledge of modern electronics let alone electricity. Why would they spend $100 on a laptop instead of something they could use such as food? If they give people these laptops chances are they will sell them to try and get food. In the end, we could be better spending this research money on food. Get the picture :)?

  19. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by apflwr3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I find it hard to believe that you made it to a country as remote as Malawi without travelling through areas that had roads, buildings, plumbing and power-- but the inhabitants live in such poverty that access to a computer is an impossible dream and the best job they could hope for is a Nike sweatshop. This program is for them-- the parts of the "Third World" that are 50 years behind, not 500.

  20. Once Spain gets more reliable power, WiFi there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I read Spain is part of this, but the infrastructure there is not advanced enough. Here's hoping Spain gets out of their third world status and up to second world like Portugal and France.

    1. Re:Once Spain gets more reliable power, WiFi there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you missed the part about the nodes being solar powered... or it's time for you to move to France or Portugal for a second-world education?

    2. Re:Once Spain gets more reliable power, WiFi there by tfurrows · · Score: 1

      You should note that summary mentions 1) a solar powered network and 2) distribution plans for India. I wouldn't rate India as a glistening example of first-world power grids; even the largest companies there use diesel-powered generators as their primary power source (HCL for one).

      Spain may be better or worse as far as the grid is concerned, but I'm pretty sure they have a similar (or more favorable) solar index...

    3. Re:Once Spain gets more reliable power, WiFi there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe spanish citizens won't agree with you trying to change their economy to a comunist/socialist one. "Second world" are countries like Cuba and old soviet union.

      Oh, maybe you were talking about that OTHER Spain we just don't know?

  21. Great! Coco-net! by cb_abq · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Howz about we just forget about bringing our depraved culture to the developing world and strive to eliminate genocide and rampant overpopulation.

  22. Cosmology by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    1. The metaphysical study of the origin and the nature of the universe.
    In my cosmology, I can't find a distinction between mind and soul in the fashion that you do.

    1. Re:Cosmology by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 1

      Nor is there a clear division between mind and body, dear hackwrench. But we can make provisional distinctions to talk about things such as bodies, minds, souls, spoons.

      Oh, by the way, I think you'd have a stronger comment if you tried it like this:

      In my cosmology, I can't find a distinction between mind and soul in the fashion that you do, you insensitive clod!!

      Better, don't you think?

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    2. Re:Cosmology by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      In my cosmology, there is no soul, and we are all just meatbags running organic programs that convince us that we matter. Report to the factory for processing into soylent green.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  23. But India isn't doing OLPC! by glowworm · · Score: 1

    According to a recent /. thread India has rejected the OLPC project, so how will a solar WiFi mesh create anything more than the ability for the rich to get access on their Lenovo's, Sony's and Toshiba's when they are doing a visit to the slums?

    --
    Orationem pulchram non habens, scribo ista linea in lingua Latina
  24. Wifi is the wrong tool for the job. by Myself · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You're exactly right, Wi-fi is a last-meter solution, and people are trying to use it for last-mile and more. It'd be wonderful to see a solar-powered wireless mesh network, but not running 802.11anything!

    What's interesting is that the Ricochet network has already been designed, deployed, proven, mismarketed, and abandoned. Metricom's routing protocol was vastly superior to anything else in this space, and now YDI's got the patents locked up.

    Airespace was founded by a bunch of ex-Metricom brains, and it looks like they built many of the same smarts into the same casing. Then Airespace got bought by Cisco and they call it the 1500. I wouldn't mind playing with a few dozen of these.

    Anyway, if someone could convince YDI to open the intellectual property, that warehouse full of Ricochet poletops could be deployed anywhere in the world. The modems are cheap, the hardware is bulletproof, and did I mention they go a mile on the stock rubber ducks?

    1. Re:Wifi is the wrong tool for the job. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Ricochet was pretty neato but even the fastest "cricket" modems were butt-slow compared to wifi. Personally, I think the only real use for long-haul wifi is point to point, not omnidirectional cloud style. You need a device with at least three interfaces for that to be very useful, though.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Wifi is the wrong tool for the job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While looking for inexpensive ways to extend my home wireless coverage to a detatched garage, I came across the MIT Roofnet project. It's a mesh network to deliver internet access to off-campus students using reflashed Netgear WGT634U. Their software is available to download, but it doesn't look like there has been much work done on it lately. There's also information about a test deployment in Boston; how many nodes used, overall coverage, etc. I can't imagine it being much more work to make the nodes solar powered and perhaps somewhat portable. This could easily help bridge the OLPC mesh networks (at least between areas with good LOS).

    3. Re:Wifi is the wrong tool for the job. by jc42 · · Score: 1

      Wi-fi is a last-meter solution, ...

      Actually, if you dig up the earliest docs on the Internet (ARPAnet), you'll find a lot of drawings of the intended use of the system. Most of them were totally wireless.

      Remember that the ARPAnet was a military project. The intent was electronic communication in battlefield conditions. You can't run wires between your tanks, planes, ships, and troops.

      More to the point, the suposedly-new "mesh" idea is just a rebranding of the original design. It was expected that people would not only be cutting your wires, but they'd also be bombing your communication hubs. The packet-routing system was expected to be dynamic, so that as routers died or came online, the routine software would reroute packets automatically.

      This is a pretty good model for a flock of OLPC gadgets, any of which may run out of power or be shut down when someone eats dinner, goes to bed, etc. The original intent was that as long as a path exists between two machines, the routing software will find the path and deliver the packets. And this isn't a new idea; it was the intent back in the 1960s.

      It would be interesting and amusing if a bunch of wild-eyed academics could once again implement a military design to provide a useful resource for a large part of the world when the commercial world believes it isn't worth doing. The commercial Internet does think that wi-fi is a feeble technology, good only for the last few meters. And they don't like customer-owned networks. So we can't trust the commercial world to solve the comm problems outside major urban areas. It will have to be done by people who have a motive other than commercial profit.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    4. Re:Wifi is the wrong tool for the job. by kickassweb · · Score: 1

      And if a bunch of academics or a startup do this, and make it viable for all of us in the US who don't want Stevens to clog our pipes with commercials and the Home Shopping Network, they'll be the next internet wonderstartup-- until they go public and start selling stock options.

      --
      I'd love to change the world but I can't find the source code.
    5. Re:Wifi is the wrong tool for the job. by jc42 · · Score: 1

      Heh; sorry, but commercial hype and scam artists are the future of any comm system we build. At least until we get AI that's good enough to recognize them and distract them.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    6. Re:Wifi is the wrong tool for the job. by Myself · · Score: 1
      Wi-fi is a last-meter solution, ...
      Actually, if you dig up the earliest docs on the Internet (ARPAnet), you'll find a lot of drawings of the intended use of the system. Most of them were totally wireless.

      Did you think you were contradicting me? Yes, the internet can function with lots of wireless links. I'm simply saying that the low-level radio layer, known specifically as wifi, eight oh two dot eleven, isn't suitable because it has problems with fairness, channel sharing, mac spoofing, and acks. Your point is akin to saying that the internet can work over symmetric links, and IrDA is symmetric, therefore the internet should be all IrDA.

      No. There are lots of radio protocols that would make a fine mesh network. Wifi isn't among them. By the time you've grafted enough patches and tweaks onto 802.11 to make it useful in a mesh, it barely resembles the original spec. Efforts to do so are colossal wastes of time, but they tend to achieve some measure of success simply because the media goes gaga over the word "wifi", whereas technically sensible projects who reject 802.11's absurd baggage don't tend to get the same amount of fawning press.

      Slashdot is part of the problem, unfortunately. Anyone doing radio data work with something other than wifi is slapped with the ugly "proprietary" label, even when a fresh approach is exactly what's needed. Imagine if the Honda fanboy websites bitched every time a Caterpillar bulldozer was used in place of a Civic. Who cares if hatchbacks don't make good bulldozers? It's not our favorite!
  25. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by ndogg · · Score: 1

    Not all nations are so technologically deficient. Some nations, like the Philippines or various Eastern European nations, have some semblance of a modern industrialized nation, but are still, for the most part, extremely impoverished. Projects like this are most important for such nations.

    --
    // file: mice.h
    #include "frickin_lasers.h"
  26. Most WISPs are run by dummies. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    I managed a huge wireless ISP using 802.11b, then later g as well, as well as 900MHz and 5.8Ghz gear. The "weird" problems all our competitors had, and you apparently had are all caused by not knowing what you are doing. Use quality components, including connectors and cable, and install them right and things will be great. Several of our wireless backbone links had better uptime than the fibre we used to connect our network to the internet.

  27. WiFi access for $100 laptops, and more by Netssansfrontieres · · Score: 1

    One of the sad things in this note is the implication that the $100 laptop won't have Internet access.

    This is pure nonsense, and it is amazing to see this repeated at /. without even a brief attempt to look it up. It is not relevant what William Gates Jr. asserts. What is relevant is this: every description of the $100 laptops has repeatedly referred to the inclusion therein of WiFi. Further, Nicholas Negroponte, father of the machines, has for years espoused use of WiFi for ad hoc meshes.

  28. thought process. . . by treak007 · · Score: 1

    . . . along the lines of , "hmmm, the people are poor and upset, hmmm we could give them food, water and shelter, or pr0n....hmmmm, lets go with pron."

    --
    Klingon Software is not released, it escapes, inflicting terrible damage onto the enemy as it does
  29. Free WiFi and Diamonds and Water in the Desert by TheNarrator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A man is in the desert dying of thirst. A guy on a camel comes up to him and offers him a jug of water for his diamonds which he gladly trades.

    An illterate family is dying of hunger somewhere in a Africa. Someone offers them a loaf of bread to melt down their free solar powered wi-fi station and latop as scrap metal. They gladly trade.

    That's the problem in these places where people are starving and illiterate. Any kind of infrastructure you put in is just going to be sold as scrap for food. This might not be the case in India, where people aren't starving to death and are not totally uneducated, but this kind of thing has happened over and over again in Africa. People put in an elaborate desert irrigation system to grow food and all the pipe fittings are stolen and sold as scrap metal.

    1. Re:Free WiFi and Diamonds and Water in the Desert by Almahtar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just because a country is poor doesn't mean its residents are all starving and foolish. There will be plenty of people that will realize that their childrens' futures rest in education, and that these machines are keys to that door. There will be plenty of parents that would sooner starve than relinquish that. It's a typical middle to upper class misconception that everyone in a less developed country is either starving or ignorant or both, and that's really not the case.

    2. Re:Free WiFi and Diamonds and Water in the Desert by NerveGas · · Score: 1

      This will give those poor, starving families a chance to make money running "Nigerian" schemes. :)

      steve

      --
      Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
    3. Re:Free WiFi and Diamonds and Water in the Desert by jotok · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For about the millionth time...these projects are not aimed at dirt poor countries, they are aimed at countries that already have some infrastructure.

    4. Re:Free WiFi and Diamonds and Water in the Desert by labratuk · · Score: 1
      This might not be the case in India, where people aren't starving to death and are not totally uneducated, but this kind of thing has happened over and over again in Africa.

      Ah. So India = slightly educated and well fed and Africa = everyone starving.

      Thank you for expanding my incredibly narrow world view.
      --
      Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
    5. Re:Free WiFi and Diamonds and Water in the Desert by technococcus · · Score: 1

      You mean like in South Africa where there's cell phone service a lot of places and a bustling natural resources industry? Or Egypt, with Memphis and Cairo and a booming tourism trade? Or Morroco? Or Liberia?

      Go to Africa before you start spewing crap. Africa isn't some giant hole of poor, unlike what Sally Struthers would have you believe.

  30. I was thinking the same thing by Ogemaniac · · Score: 0

    There are literally billions of people without access to clean water, a secure food supply, basic medicine, reasonable security, etc.

    A $100 dollars for a laptop could provide medical care for a family of four for a year in many third-world countries. Which would you rather have?

    1. Re:I was thinking the same thing by grcumb · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "A $100 dollars for a laptop could provide medical care for a family of four for a year in many third-world countries. Which would you rather have?"

      Both. Now quit offering these simplistic and narrow-minded false alternatives.

      Did it ever occur to you that in order to deliver aid, people might need communications capability? Or that the vast majority of people are not dying of being poor, they're living with it. This means that if they're going to improve their lot - and everyone on the face of this earth has that right - they might need access to information in order to do so?

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    2. Re:I was thinking the same thing by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      If laptops could teach some of them how to run an economy and a government, then this is a much better option in the long run.

      In countries where the entire economy and government has failed, education is a much more important charity than food or medicine.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    3. Re:I was thinking the same thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is this really a binary opposition? Are you just begging to deconstructed here?

    4. Re:I was thinking the same thing by 70Bang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Read everything before mod-ding me down -- there's some germane material which won't make the cut-off...

      How do you propose the family of four get medical care for a year be distributed (and used by the proper recipients)?

      You have control of the resources before it reaches TPTB (The Powers That Be). Once it's there, however, all bets are off.

      Here's an example:

      You see people panhandling for money. Offer to take them in the nearest restaurant. Give management enough money...with the understanding it can only be used for the person in question and anything left over goes in the tip jar. The person you're helping is polite (if you're lucky) but refuses.

      Does this mean:

      1) They aren't hungry and anticipate having enough the next time he's hungy?
      2) you've determined the reason they need the money is to buy some MD2020 (it's a wine -- Mad Dog 20/20 - you're better off to drink battery acid. I cannot imagine a hangover on it. Find some at a cheap-o liquor store try a little, and pitch it - it's an experiment -- not unlike a deep-friend twinkie or Snickers bar at a state fair. I buy whatever is new that year for a one-bite taste by tearing it off, passing the rest off to anyone else wanting a taste. If you are clueless about these deep-fried foods, consider yourself fortunate) or some other booze (or drug)?
      3) they need the money for something else - something positive? e.g., sick kid to the clinic?

      4) they really rake in the $$$ asking for money and have no reason to find a job.

      5) sitting there kills time vs. sitting in the library and doing nothing.

      6) ???

      You've got the money in hand. How do you decide how it's distributed and how much to give them? (I have a personal pattern|policy, but we won't worry about that right now)

      If you hand over the the funds, you have a good chance of believing it will be diverted. That's when the Time photo of Bono means squat. "Forgive the countries which can't pay their debts. It's crippling them trying to keep up." (read that: we're loan sharks) We clear the slate, they have nothing. We give them money, it goes the same place all of the other money has gone. Bono goes oh-fer by asking us to wipe the debts again. Fortunately, none of his money was diverted and he can continue to wear kool-yellow glasses.

      If we give them "clean water, a secure food supply, basic medicine, reasonable security...for a year", how do you prevent the hard goods from being sold to another group|country for $$$ or exchanged in some other fashion? Reasonable security? Right now, we're in a bad spot right now [1] -- although we have now have an exit policy [2] and have to intervene in how many other companies using a fleet of UN black helicopters? If it's a UN and not US issue, there's plenty of representation from the countries who are robbing their people blind and have already diverted all of the funds. I hear a One World Order being proposed by someone coming in from the side door.

      Lots of fine wishes, but it's not going to happen in the real world. Anyone for a video game? World Conquest & Domination? Wait. Something near to that was in Never Say Never Again.
      __________________
      [1] A man goes to hell and is greeted by Satan who explains the rules: "I'm going to walk you through a long hallway of rooms. You'll be able to look inside and determine if you want to stay there for eternity [or not]. If you choose to pass but find everything after it is worse, you cannot return. Again, once you pass, you cannot return." They go to the first room and all of the surfaces are so hot people are doing everything they can to avoid contact - jumping off of the floor, wall, taking turns standing on each other, etc. "I'll pass. There's no way I could handle that for eternity." "Fine. But you cannot return if everything else is worse." They go to room #2. Everything must be very cold because the vapor from everyone's breath can be seen in the air and everyone

    5. Re:I was thinking the same thing by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Textbook 1: Sex Ed.

                Chapter 1: Aids
                        a. You get Aids from having sex with someone who has AIDS.
                        b. You can't cure aids by having sex with a baby.

                Chapter 2: etc.

      Might be worth something

    6. Re:I was thinking the same thing by Eternauta3k · · Score: 1
      Like a reply I got to a comment....
      BOOKS! We've learned with them for ages and it works! Problem isn't lack of laptops, it's:
      • Kids who have to work
      • Teachers who strike because of the miserable salary
      • ??
      --
      Yeah. Would you choose a neurosurgeon who pokes around people's brains in his spare time? I wouldn't.
    7. Re:I was thinking the same thing by Millenniumman · · Score: 1

      I agree, but these laptops will not improve communication. There is no internet in those areas, and setting up an infrastructure will be much harder than giving these laptops to people. I am under the impression that the groups making these laptops wants to implement mesh, but I have my doubts about the effectiveness of that. First of all, your neighbors have to keep their laptop constantly charged for you to be able to access the internet from them. And what if they lose/break the laptop, or it has a software problem? At most, these laptops will replace books. But unlike books, they will have problems, which the people who they are given to will be unable to fix. There is no way to set up a huge IT group to help all the people with these laptops. This project might be helpful for people in urban areas, since an internet setup wouldn't be too hard. You'd still have the maintenance issue, though.

      --
      Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
  31. Sorry... forgot to suggest Mr. Gates's Money by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 1
    I meant to say something about the Gates foundation spending money on mundane stuff like roads, instead of/in addition to the stuff they already do.

    And by "roads", I do mean literally roads, but also any other infrastructure that we westerners might overlook as "obvious". How about some more phone lines, etc.

    Maybe assasinate a few warlords on the sly, while you are at it. You know, basic stuff.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:Sorry... forgot to suggest Mr. Gates's Money by grcumb · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "I meant to say something about the Gates foundation spending money on mundane stuff like roads, instead of/in addition to the stuff they already do.... And by "roads", I do mean literally roads, but also any other infrastructure that we westerners might overlook as "obvious". How about some more phone lines, etc."

      You're absolutely right about basic infrastructure. Transport and communications are integral to a viable economy. This, by the way, is exactly why we need tools like solar powered wireless - to bootstrap communications in areas where 'proper' infrastructure of the kind you see in North America or western Europe is just plain impossible.

      You'll be glad to know, by the way, that the US is devoting USD 68 million to the country where I work to do exactly that. It's building roads, airstrips and wharfs. By all accounts, it's one of the best-run development projects this country has seen since colonial times.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    2. Re:Sorry... forgot to suggest Mr. Gates's Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the US is devoting USD 68 million to the country where I work to do exactly that. It's building roads, airstrips and wharfs.

      Good Gravy! The Americans are obviously planning to invade the place. What else would they want all those roads and airstrips for... tanks and planes. Get out while you still can!

    3. Re:Sorry... forgot to suggest Mr. Gates's Money by ZeroPly · · Score: 1
      Yes, we've been pouring millions of US dollars into MANY different countries, not just this particular one. What has it accomplished exactly? Africa was starving when I was in high school, they're still starving.

      The problem most Westerner planners have is that they just assume that everyone else thinks like them. You really DON'T need solar panels and batteries in a rural village with no power. What you need is a cheap and disgustingly low tech way to hook up a couple of bicycles so that they can produce enough power to run what you need run.

      I don't know if anyone here has read "The Ugly American" by Lederer and Burdick (1958), but it is the book that should be mandatory reading for anyone involved in projects in developing countries. Technological improvements should be incremental by design. If a village has 500 bicycles and no gasoline station, designing a cart that can be pulled by 2 bikes and carries a few hundred pounds would be a LOT more useful than buying them a Ford F350.

      Now don't get me wrong - Gates' money can be used to tremendous effect in any given developing country. But you'd be much better off spending it on old-fashioned textbooks and pencils than solar panels and laptops.

      --
      Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
  32. OT: private message. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Time to change your password again, "password3" has been compromised. :-)

  33. Solar Cooking by Shajenko42 · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is why the people who are promoting Solar Cooking are doing so in third world countries. Solar cooking means they don't have to spend so much time looking for firewood, and they can keep their trees. Plus, it helps stave off global warming a little bit.

    1. Re:Solar Cooking by k31bang · · Score: 1

      how well does solar cooking work under the moon?

      --
      -+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+ *** http://www.mountainfort.com *** +-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-
    2. Re:Solar Cooking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very well if it's a sunny day.

  34. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by MrWhitefolkz · · Score: 1

    A little off topic, but what happens when the RIAA and MPAA start noticing these countries downloading stuff that shouldn't be. Are they going to go after the people and try to do what they do here or are they going to turn a blind eye to avoid a potential public relations problem? Is there going to be a filter? I'd be interested to see how all of that plays out when everything is all said and done in their new 21st century world.

  35. No learning, no bread. No bread, no learning. by twitter · · Score: 1

    Keeping people from starving in the several ongoing world disasters is not something we should abandon but that has nothing to do with why portable laptops and networks are good for "developing" nations.

    The simple justification for these projects is that it's cheaper education. Dead tree based information is expensive and fragile. Think of the tons of material required for every village to have even a rudimentary library. One leaky roof or arson can take it all away. Now realize how easily that library can be replaced with a few hundred gigs of storage and a good network. Think of how hard it would be to do permanent damage to that kind of system. For much less than the cost of libraries in key cities, a country can make the same information available in an impossible to deny way to all of it's citizens. Collaborative tools, like Wikipedia, are the future of knowledge distribution and not just for those of us rich enough to think of our computers as gaming platforms and superfluous additions to "real" research at a library. Educated people can take care of themselves and that's what the world needs most.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:No learning, no bread. No bread, no learning. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  36. Telstra beware by jkburges · · Score: 1

    Well, Australia is not exactly a developing country, but in terms of its broadband services it practically is. Telstra seem to be having a bit of trouble getting broadband out to regional Australia http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,20003063-1702 ,00.html?from=rss, maybe they could take a look at this!

  37. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by whoisvaibhav · · Score: 1

    I may agree with you on some things there, but to say that such a project will not help at all may be too presumptious. I know of experiments in India that were carried out on slum kids (who had never seen a computer). In these projects, they were provided access to a computer without any training whatsoever and were getting online and using the web within a very short period of time. If you want to read more, then google "Hole in the wall".

  38. [Bad analogy] I'm studying for algorithms.. by Neoncow · · Score: 1

    Having the RIAA sue people in developing nations is like proving P=NP. Seriously.

    It would be like the definitative proof that RIAA has no morals.

    (I'm hoping that someone out there gets this)

    1. Re:[Bad analogy] I'm studying for algorithms.. by Neoncow · · Score: 1

      A little bit of clarity..

      Proving P=NP would demonstrate to mathematicians that some of the hardest problems in computer science can be solved in a resonable amount of time. It would be a revolution in complexity theory, because it would prompt new research into complexity theory (or something like that)

      The RIAA suing people in developing nations would demonstrate that they are pure evil. It would be a revolution in the music industry, because it would prompt new publicity against the RIAA's tactics.

      Anyway.. Back to studying *sigh*

  39. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by westlake · · Score: 1
    If I couldn't afford a pair of shoes, I'd google for information about making some... if I had access to the Net.

    In traditional societies, crafts such as shoemaking are taught to apprentices willing to dedicate several years to the task.

    Your shortcut assumes, in rough order:

    That the man without shoes is in good health, with no relevant physical or mental disabilites.

    That he has the free time to master a skilled trade. That he is computer-literate.

    That the craft can be mastered without hands-on instruction. "They laughed when I sat down at the piano..."

    That he can afford the necessary tools and materials.

  40. Satellite by kahrytan · · Score: 1


    Ever heard of Satellite Broadband? It's not as fast as fiber optic cabling but it works in remote areas.

    --
    \
    1. Re:Satellite by GoulDuck · · Score: 1
      Ever heard of Satellite Broadband? It's not as fast as fiber optic cabling but it works in remote areas.
      How much does it cost?
    2. Re:Satellite by kahrytan · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't know but Earthlink has only downstream satellite. Satellite Broadband would only be for the governments to put into place.

      Just imagine Communication towers with Wifi, Cellphone and Satellite services in the middle of poor neighborhoods. And they are powered by Solar Power.

      --
      \
  41. Install base by luketheduke · · Score: 1

    Look at it this way, while helping the developing countries gain technology. Linux will actually gain a relevant desktop install base...lol

  42. Wireless Networking in the Developing World by Draco_es · · Score: 1

    Related with this, this book shows how wireless can help to improve things in those countries, apart of being a very practical guide to wireless networking. A few miles bridge can be used to share a VSAT connnection, that would be completly out of budget otherwise.

    Not only focuses on technical issues, but also in how to make self-financiable and self-mantenible infraestructures. An excellent read.

  43. Oh Fun by StaticVector · · Score: 1

    Now I can hand crank my way to the web with the tremendous speed of 1.5mbps across the entire network, which is shared with a million other hand crankers. I think I will go back outside and kick the soccer ball around while I wait for my 1kb text file download.

  44. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by Eivind · · Score: 1
    Hint: Not all regions and countries are identical.

    There are places like you describe. Those aren't likely to be the first targets of such projects.

    Education is however the only solution. Water. Food. Education. That's about the priority. You can not solve peoples problems for them for ever. You can however help them learn how to solve them themselves. A much much much better use of resources.

  45. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

    There's also the question of network effects: the shoes that an African villager might learn how to make on the internet might not be the ones most appropriate to his environment, and the reliance on the laptop could, in fact, reduce the amount of local cultural transfer by which he could actually learn how to make shoes from a neighbor.

    I think that technology can be helpful and integrated well: it's just that the very OLPC model is so wrapped up in a myopic view of culture and society, that I think it is at best destined to fail, at worst could cause more harm than good.

  46. Sneakernet by andyr · · Score: 1

    Wizzy Digital Courier is a system that allows internet (email, web scrapes, anything that will move via UUCP) to be delivered - from a place that has conventional access to an isolated system or network. Some pretty pictures for you. The price point moves down to zero, with someone helpful upstream. Bandwidth is not too bad either - a USB stick can hold a lot more than you can transfer using dialup.

    --
    Andy Rabagliati
  47. doesn't address the previous 40+ miles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    the problem with this project is that it addresses the last mile without addressing the previous 20, 30, 40 miles. remote villages don't have internet connections, so there's nothing to share. what actually needs to happen is these guys need to combine their work with another project at UC Berkeley.
    The UCB project has essentially taken off-the-shelf routers and expanded their range to 40 miles.
    The 802.11 networking standard, more commonly known as "Wi-Fi", is defined by a set of international standards that limit its range to about 200 feet. (This is why computer-toting travelers cluster in groups at Wi-Fi "hotspots" at airports and cafes, and why a laptop user on the street can horn in on Wi-Fi from a nearby house.)

    Brewer and his group first pinpointed the factors that make these standards ill-suited for long distance networking, then developed software to overcome the limitations. Combining their software with directional antennas and routers to send, receive and relay signals, the team has so far been able to obtain network speeds of up to six Mb/s at distances up to 40 miles.

    These speeds are about 100 times faster than dial-up speeds and carry 100 times as far as regular Wi-Fi. The technology allows anyone with about $800 for a pair of small computers with directional antennas to network with another location within 50 miles and in line of sight. If there happens to be a hill in the way, no problem: A couple more antennas at the high spot can relay the signal between stations.

  48. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by OctaviusIII · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised that you've been as far afield as Malawi's more medieval areas and not realized that not all poor regions are like that. In the Sahel, cell phones are sometimes used to help coordinate the cattle migrations. In the cities, people do their banking and their bartering, they check the weather, check the prices of food, all on cell phones. Proper computers would probably go even further in helping people lift themselves out of poverty. I'm sure that if you gave the villagers in the place you visited a radio even, they'd learn a great deal to help them out. Give them a computer and the means to get it powered and online and they'd catch on, with training. I think you're underestimating the people and the technology while overestimating the depth of their isolation.

    --
    What's this? Another weblog? On transit?
  49. Open Source it, Green Wifi !!! just like Ronja! by fantomas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hey Green Wi-Fi people, if you're listening, I agree with the parent poster. How about you put the schematics for your designs online so we can all build these? Open Source philosophy and all that, the more of us building them the more eyes and hands to find improvements and bug fixing... I'm helping two community networks in the UK where they are really concerned about ecological issues and they've actually already asked me if they could power their roof top access points by solar energy. I think you could be the solution. Please could you put the designs online, creative commons them, so we can build some?

    Everybody loves the Ronja guy for putting his optical networking designs online....

  50. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you not see how pretentious it is to expect them to value a laptop with WiFi when they are starving and can't read? Get them some shoes first.

    My father smoked for decades and he didn't get cancer, so how can you say that smoking causes cancer?
    My brother's laptop never caught fire, so that brand must be reliable.
    I went to a third-world village that wouldn't benefit from networking, so it can't be any use anywhere in the third world.

    Same argument, same fallacy. The plural of anecdote is not data.

  51. HA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now i can get nigerian bank fraud emails from all over the world!
    Seriously though, i think its fine and dandy that everyone should have access to the information on the internet but why the heck cant i get a $100 laptop and why doesnt the rural area i live in have wireless access yet. What are they going to use the computers for anyway,, to swat flies with?

  52. Waste problem? by hsquared · · Score: 0

    So the next step would be self-organizing networks of microscopic, autonomous, solar-powered network routers. And with them, a new toxic waste problem with all those routers slowly becoming obsolete, eroding, and lying around. Just like one of my favorit Sci-Fi authors, Vernor Vinge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_Vinge) described in "Fast Times at Fairmont High". With an interesting solution, too.

  53. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by James+McGuigan · · Score: 1

    When I was last in India, I met up with Jitendra Shar, who was leading a development of an indian version of Linux http://www.indictrans.org. This not only involved localizing applications such as openoffice, but also having to create new fonts and support for RTL (right to left) languages and deal with extra quirks of the various indian languages, such as combining letters (there are over 20 major languages on the sub-continent).

    They where also involved in setting up a computer lab in a village on the outskirts of Bombay, and teaching them how to use computers. One of the major excuses employers use for refusing to hire people of lower castes is that they don't know how to use a computer. Another issue facing the villergers is that in many nearby villages, there had been forced evictions to make room for new building projects - the people where suppost to get compensation, but this was often not paid out and the census information was very poor (its hard to get compensation if you don't exist in the goverment records). The villagers where using the computers to help create a census of who had been evicted and use that data to help claim some of the money that was owed to them.

  54. Isn't that Scotts line? by vaughanmarks · · Score: 1

    "one of Bill Gates' criticisms - what's a computer without internet access?"

    Now that Scott's gone Bill is stealing his lines...?

  55. uh... FOOD? by XO · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't it make more sense to get these people some FOOD?!

    --
    "Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
    1. Re:uh... FOOD? by labratuk · · Score: 1

      Oh right, so you're sending them food. Enough to keep them from starving - enough to keep them alive. Then what? What are they supposed to do then? Sit around and thank you for keeping them alive and hoping that you don't stop the food shipments? With no connection to the world, no tangible skills, how are they supposed to then play a part in the world and make a sustainable living in return? Sure, they could go back to subsistence farming, but what happens next time a famine hits? Do you expect them to beg for your aid again?

      What about people who aren't starving, but still have no useful skills or are embargoed out of the global market by wealthier countries? What are they supposed to do? Sorry, you're not going to get any help, because there are needier people than you who we need to give a hand out to.

      --
      Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
  56. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by Calinous · · Score: 1

    They don't really need shoes. I think one of them is capable (no shoes and 100 pounds of sticks in his back) to walk longer, go faster and in places where you couldn't go, using the best shoes money can buy. The things that will help them are TOOLS and knowledge, not things like shoes.

  57. My Experience With India ... by blackmangoes · · Score: 1

    Let me share with my experience with India, then you have some ideas whether selling laptops to people there make any sense. I lived in Mumbai, India for two months doing humantarian work as a health care worker there in both the city and villages. In the city, internet cafe is quite accessible and affortable. You pay about $0.5 USD to surf the internet on an ancient window 95 computer for an hour, but of course, dont expect a constant, speedy connection like in United States here. Few people do have mobile phones and I was a little surprised to see my taxi driver wearing a bluetooth headset for his mobile, as he picked me up from the airport. However, you do see LOTS of people living on the street. Seeing people showering, cooking, and dining literally on the highway are very common. Cows, dogs, goats are everywhere, and they have no problem whatsoever with cows crossing the highway at all. It is, however, a little different in the village, which is just three hours away from Mumbai. Buildings / homes are made of hay. Mangoes trees are everywhere, and they get their water from wells. Electricy is available, but only for half a day. People there do not speak english at all, so I do need some help when I obtain medical history from my patients. I asked my friend to write out all those questions down in Hindi so I can just point to a piece of paper. I thought that was a smart idea, but guess what? Not only do they not know how to read those questions in their own language, they do not even know how to write their name in hindi ! Now do you think it will work if you give them laptops for $100 USD? First of all, $100 USD may not be a lot to us, but that's huge amount of money to them. Let me give you some numbers: a typical meal cost about 50 Rupees (1 USD = 50 Rupee), and it cost 1000+ Rupees for a room in a hotel. Of course, it is impressive to build a computer in $100, but for those people in the village, that is totally not affortable. I heard they will have to starve for a day in order to hop onto a train to go to the city for medical care. Second, when people do not even know how to write their name, how do they use a computer? Nevertheless, I was quite impressed by a local program organized by a NGO. What they do is that they loaded a dozen old used computers on a bus, and they came by every week. Kids will then hop onto the bus, learn how to use computers. By the end of the day, after the kids go back to their home, the bus will drive to another village. I thought that was indeed very good idea, and that's quite an effective way to bring technology to these people. In a way, I don't see computer are that important. You can actually learn a lot from books. Having a computer is just a luxury. Instead, spending money on electricity, basic medical care, and education (so they can at least now how to write their name) is a much better idea.

    1. Re:My Experience With India ... by end15 · · Score: 1

      I think what you point is very interesting. Coming from a relatively educated background it's hard to grasp these types of issues. Just so you know a part of the $100 laptop idea is that westerners/first worlders buy 1 for $300 so that two more can go to school kids. I plan on buying one. It seems that for both the WiFi project and the $100 Laptop project to work the system needs to be designed so that it can instruct the user on how to use it assuming they have no idea of what they are handling. It's a little far fetched but something to think about. Press the power button and it begins to show you how to use a keyboard etc. I think with the proper combination of audio and visual aids this might work. Over all each region that these technologies were released to would have to be evaluated separately.

      --
      All glory to the Hypnotoad!
  58. Great idea by shomon2 · · Score: 1

    Brilliant idea, although maybe the internet connection doesn't have to be always on - this is good for getting information in, but it could be expensive. Would basic needs be better met by just having a lot of recycled computers set up in a MAN sized wifi network - so that for example a doctor or local council could have a database of people and could therefore use this for planning things out and just co-ordinating local work? GnuMED?

  59. Talk about childishness by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    Refusing to acknowledge trade-offs is the height of political naivete. If you have $100, you can't have both the health care for four and the laptop. You have to choose. You can't get away with just saying "both", because now you are spending $200 (and could have health care for eight or two laptops!). In reality, you have a set amount of money, and need to choose what is best.

    I doubt someone who is suffering from malaria or starving in Somolia is lying there thinking "God, if I only had a laptop". You have to start with basics first. All else is window dressing.

    1. Re:Talk about childishness by anandsr · · Score: 1

      The problem is that this trade-off exists only in your mind. But it does not exist. Give me a genuine trade-off. Normally the governments in these countries are quite corrupt, so although a laptop that has not much of a percieved resale value can be given off, but money will probably be taken by the corrupt people.

      Give a man a fish, you feed him one day.
      Teach a man to fish, and you give up your monopoly on fisheries.

      Are you afraid of giving up your monopoly, or you just don't believe in it ;-).

    2. Re:Talk about childishness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt someone who is suffering from malaria or starving in Somolia is lying there thinking "God, if I only had a laptop". You have to start with basics first. All else is window dressing.

      No, he's thinking "God, if only the local warlord hadn't seized all of the mosquito nets for his palace".

    3. Re:Talk about childishness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "One laptop per child" is a great marketing hook to get donations, but in practice it may be more like one laptop per village of 100 families. The trade-off is health care for four villagers for a limited period or communications for 500 villagers for a long period. Do a bit of googling (I'm not going to do it for you). You will find that in many parts of India each village already has a cell phone and the nearest railway station has public Internet terminals. Another poster has already explained the benefit of this trade-off. Communicating with other communities allows the villagers to plan what to buy and sell on each trip to the market. Just like ebay lets you know what's available and what's in demand so you can buy and sell and the price that's best for you.

  60. Basic educations might be more helpful by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    Many of the children (and most of the girls) do not even have a chance to go in many places. I think learning to read might be a bit more useful than receiving a laptop that you can't even use because you can't read, and your body is wracked by the pains of hunger and disease.

  61. Whats you solution then? WiFi's the best we got! by bananaendian · · Score: 1

    Currently WiFi is the best technology we got for broadband internet access in remote regions. It is the only mass-produced high-bandwidth wireless standard around. And of course any mass-produced complex consumer grade electronics will have a low MTBF. But you have to pick and choose your hardware carefully whatever your project is and plan your maintenance strategy accordingly.

    Seems like you've had trouble with 'MESH networks'. MESH network is just a concept - you need to make an efford and have the engineering skills to apply it in reality. And quit whining about FCC limitations on channels and powerlevels. You have to plan around those. For example having multiple radio-interfaces in one accesspoint/router with sector antennas for clients and line-of-sight antennas for trunking will give you managable and predictable performance.

    I would start with something like Soekris embedded-linux board with mPCI/PC-card radio-interfaces and custom antennas for each purpose. One radio acts as the accesspoint with omni-antenna and other two are used for trunking with parabolic antennas. That'll give you a basic building block for your network. Then you just loop them around the area you need coverage for and at junctions and high-traffic areas you co-locate a couple hooked together via the eth0 - its all flexible and managable with linux running on the boxes. This wont exactly be a 'MESH-network' (more like a semi-hierarchical mobile-phone tower network) but it will have the same flexibility of coverage and reliability (because of the looping).

    You have a better idea?

    --
    www.tribalnetworks.org - helping tribal people around the world to own their own means of high-tech communications
  62. What are the basics? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can't assume that given a bit of medicine, food and water, everything will suddenly be a.o.k. That approach has been tried again and again. An informed populace is the prime requisite for a healthy economy on the macro scale. Furthermore, this populace will need an infrastructure for communications and one for transport of people and goods. If they can figure out for themselves what's good for their society, how to go about making things happen and just do it, this will be infinitely much more worth than a few planes of aid.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    That having been said, I mean no disrespect to those that work providing food, drink and medicine for the poor - only that we need to consider both the short- and long term.

  63. Which church is *the* church by DrYak · · Score: 1
    So you have to make sure you go to the right one, or you're totally screwed. You might as well sleep in on Sunday and spend the rest of the day fornicating and taking drugs, since you'll be going to hell anyway.


    No, you got it wrong.
    The fact that each church is contradictory about which is the "saving-one", means only one thing :
    there's no way to be safe. The only question that matters is who is going to be eaten first once the older gods come as the stars predicted.

    (And remember : vote for Cthulhu as president).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  64. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
    A little off topic, but what happens when the RIAA and MPAA start noticing these countries downloading stuff that shouldn't be. Are they going to go after the people and try to do what they do here or are they going to turn a blind eye to avoid a potential public relations problem?

    Here's a hint: the RIAA is in business to make money. Suing poverty-stricken inhabitants of the third world isn't even on their radar.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  65. Need to change the nature of the Internet for Mesh by TomRC · · Score: 1

    If this short-range mesh networking is to work, the internet software needs to be adapted.

    Anything that your neighbor has pulled down from anywhere, or which has been forwarded through that system, should be cached for nearby users to get without going dozens of hops. This will be complicated by self-healing/dynamic routing of the mesh (i.e. content may be pulled down via different routes - splitting individual files).

    Combine that with a common portal that everyone goes to first, to increase the hit rate on the cached information that many in an area use.

  66. How can they be informed? by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    Half of them can't even READ the laptop because they have no schooling. In reality, these laptop projects are not going to the poorest of the poor. They are going to countries that are one or two steps ahead, with better infrastructure and political, health and education systems. While it is nice to help people in these countries, there are people even in greater need.

    We have tried providing people around the world with the basics - and it has worked. The fraction of people living in abject poverty has steadily fallen for the last century. Counter examples exist, almost always due to political instability (which the laptops are not going to end).

  67. Re:have they been to tthe 'least developed nations by MrCopilot · · Score: 1
    --
    OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
  68. Internet Access by DivineOmega · · Score: 1

    I have to agree with Gates here - please shoot me later.

    Unless Internet Access is secured for the $100 laptop project is almost everywhere it is to be used then learning potential is highly restricted. The other alternative is having a school content server, that could contain a small section of useful information students could access from their laptops via the Zero-Config wireless.

    The Wikipedia CD anyone?