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World's Largest Medical Experiment
eldavojohn writes "Recently in the UK, a Biobank project has been rolled out to 'unpick' the genetic basis of diseases such as cancer on half a million volunteers. This is based on the success of a three-month pilot phase conducted on 3,800 participants. From the article: 'Over the next four years, blood and urine samples will be collected from volunteers aged 40 to 69, to help scientists unravel the genetic foundations of common diseases, including cancer, heart disease, diabetes, dementia and joint problems. If you live in the UK, agreeing to this survey may involve a little more than you would expect."
that the US DOD invention of AIDS virus was the largest experiment....
Is a couple of scantilly clad nurses. Then they can collect DNA too.
"If you live in the UK, agreeing to this survey may involve a little more than you would expect."
Like What?
We need people to die..
Why do you think cancer is around?.. it's a man made virus to decrease the huge population we are coming to, which ultimately causes more suffering than if we had cancer.
Smoking is good in a way, it gets the dumb people get out of the way because they've basically chosen to sacrifice their selves for other peoples enjoyment of a not-so-filled world.
We don't want the whole world to be like Japan or China, do we?
What's that?.... don't like my opinion?.. well, you try telling 50 million horny teens not to have sex.
Discipline and environment social behaviour is the answer, but it has gone passed that.
Theres a project like this in Iceland called DeCODE. They've been given a lot of power over the data collected, enough to make some people wary. It's a fair assumption that this project will face similar problems, although the measures governing DeCODE seem to protect the company much more than the individual. It will be interesting to see how Biobank handles this.
"AIDS can result from being infected with the HIV virus. And I don't think the military invented it. It's been recently shown to have definitely come from monkeys, probably in the 1930's."
Both are true: the military invented it and it came from monkeys. One on the same.
Where were you when the voynix came?
If...
they properly inform people about the program and its uses before having them volunteer.
they are rigorous in protecting privacy. (No AOL fiasco.)
they closely monitor different companies are doing with the data - no cross-referencing with their own data to identify people, no reselling of the data, etc.
they allow patients to "opt-out" even after they have volunteered.
they provide it for free to interested, responsible paries. (Or at least cheap enough that major pharmaceutical companies aren't the only customers.)
they follow the ethical standards of the profession, and not the ethical standards of the mighty dollar (or pound).
Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
"they properly inform people about the program and its uses before having them volunteer."
/urine samples, always decide to give first and ask questions later.
Only for a problem that, when confronted by someone demanding blood / semen
Where were you when the voynix came?
Here's the link: Biobank (UK) http://www.ukbiobank.ac.uk/
The problem with this is that all the volunteers won't see a penny, but the medical institutions that come up with a medical breakthrough as a result of the data obtained from the volunteers will make billions. They will patent the cure, market it and the volunteers get nothing.
In the best sense, surely any profitable outcome that arises out of data provided by these volunteers should be subject to some sort of profit sharing? Afterall, without the volunteers, it may not be possible for these pharmaceutical companies to develop the medicine.
(Not to mention the fact that the volunteers may find out stuff they'd rather not know.)
What about all the fluoride in the water? It's a conspiracy... a secret experiment that's been conducted for a generation. Who knows what effects that has on us? It might be turning us all into communist spies. Perhaps we'll all wake up one day under the influence of a massive KGB mind control beam. Anything could happen! We must protect our precious bodily fluids at all costs!
Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
...was the introduction of the Big Mac.
...a species that historically procreates before 30 years of age is kept alive until their 80s by improved hygiene and medicine. Your body was never designed to last as long as it usually does nowadays, and the systems break down. Cancer isn't a "manmade virus;" it's the end result of a lifetime's worth of minor genetic insults.
We need people to die..
Fine. You first.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Curse you for bringing by association that damnable "In the Navy" earworm.
Where were you when the voynix came?
"We need people to die..."
I guess it beats that "Army of One" slogan.
Where were you when the voynix came?
...blood and urine samples will be collected from volunteers...
Just go down to any chav-infested town centre on a Friday or Saturday night. Plenty of blood and urine around then...
The longer we spend trying to find what is wrong with US, as opposed to what is wrong with the crap we eat, drink and breathe is the biggest killer of all. Somehow though, doctors are oblivious to the fact that the only animals that get cancer, heart disease, diabetes etc are us, and our domesticated pets (and livestock, etc). And so they don't find it unusual that the most sucessful primate in the world has more built-in flaws than a pre-alpha build of Windows. Hang on a second!!! Doesn't evolution select the MOST fit?
And it's worth bearing in mind that iatrogenic deaths (from misdiagnosis, drug side effects, etc) rival those of heart disease and cancer anyway. So even assuming that current lifestyle advice from doctors is NOT the cause of the health crisis we are in, what do we do? If this research highlights the genetic "faults" inherent in all of us, the pharmaceuticals will be in a race to create drugs or gene therapy to mask these alleged flaws. Again - hang on a second!!! If you get rats in your house, do you release rattlesnakes to eat them?
I once heard that increased cancer screening could actually increase deaths due to unnecessary surgery, or other treatments, on benign tumours. I used to think that was crazy. But just consider what could happen if you can walk into a doctor's surgery, put drop of blood on a probe and be told that you should consider a preventative [insert favourite body part here]-ectomy to remove the ticking timebomb inside you.
"a species that historically procreates before 30 years of age is kept alive until their 80s by improved hygiene and medicine"
Things just really haven't been right since Logan 5 came along and destroyed Carrousel and the renewal process. They should have known better than to design a computer that destroys a city if you give it a confusing sentence.
Where were you when the voynix came?
Of course, if you live anywhere other than the UK, you'll find it involves far more than you'd expect.
... is actually the USA where most corn contains genetically modified versions
also known as frankenfoods. No one knows the long term consequences.
You know what I'm saying. What's up player.
Umm, No that is completely and totally incorrect. However "We and our Pets" are the only ones DIAGNOSED and TREATED for any of these conditions. The wild animals that suffer from these problems all DIE and are EATEN by predators or scavengers.
Why is it that some people will believe the MOST RIDICULOUS things without doing a single bit of research on their own or even applying any CRITICAL LOGIC ???
It's obvious that evolution is no longer selecting for additional intelligence! Or perhaps it's just the safety nannies preventing evolution...
more should be done to use the web to collect trial information. It costs 1/10th of a traditional trial; eventually the possibilty exists to create a new wellness mgmt system as we are doing on the brain, strictly voluntary, but providing tools allowing people to follow themselves over time - does it work? a few thousand people since 8/18 on this one. with a clear opt-out.
Volunteers in medical studies often (nearly ALWAYS) recieve medical advice and consultation, possibly free medication, and follow-through care. It sounds like you do not want to volunteer -- please don't. Some people, however, feel that participating in a worthy endeavor is payment enough. If it leads to improved health care, great. If you are concerned about pharma companies making money, go into politics. These issues do not belong in science.
Posting this anonymously 'cos of mod points.w here_are_the_privacy_and_security_safeguards.html
This is the UK. The Government doesn't do privacy, at least when it comes to the citizens. They want the police to have an eternal DNA database on everyone in the country. This will almost certainly be part of it.
See the following page for more concerns.
http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/2006/08/uk_biobank_
-- 1984 was meant as a warning, not a howto.
But what happens when someone with Dementia forgets to give their blood or urine sample?
"Mind you, many people that respond to the ads for medical research studies aren't the most educated folks, or even care about what we do with the sample as long as they get the 15 bucks, But we try our best to inform them"
Just place a classified advert in Craiglist or the Cleveland Picayune or some other paper, saying "WANTED: FINGERS. WE REMOVE. YOU PAY $16"....and don't be surprised if you get a few customers.
Where were you when the voynix came?
Just a pity that they don't follow the subjects for a longer period of time. Although one can certainly learn a lot by tracking people for 4 years, I wonder if it is long enough for certain diseases which are, sadly enough, far too common.
As a comparison:
Full Story
Interesting projects in general though, precisely because of their scope.
Bah! I;ve been eeating it forrrr yeres and thyurs nething worong weth my cogggggggnitive skilz. l;akeurpewuj!
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
Don't forget the unintentional "experiments" that tested things like:
Will the thinning of the ozone layer result in more cancer?
Will increased pollution cause health problems?
Will increasing the average air temperature over time have health consequences?
Will advertising cigarettes on television lead to more lung cancer?
Will not promoting condoms lead to an increase in HIV transmission?
and many more.
Yes, I know, technically those aren't "medical experiments" but we still have an opportunity to learn from them.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
That's only a small part of the experiment. There are varying amounts of unpronounceable ingredients in lots of other things, too.
My guess is the experiment is to eventually get us to the point that embalming is no longer necessary. Morticians and coroners have already noticed that people now take longer to decay when they die and the speculation is that all of the preservatives and antibiotics in our food is the cause.
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
Well let's see. Pesticides, smoking, alcohol, illegal drugs, birth control pills. Oh there's plenty of expermentation going on. A lot of it willingly. As the population gets older the results should start popping up real soon. That's why you want to go into the medical field. A growth industry for failed experiments.
It's easy to dismiss the argument against GM food because it is all based on ignorance and paranoia. You can only accept the whacky opposition if you LACK critical thinking.
Where were you when the voynix came?
BTW, My city was used as the control for the origional flouride treatments in the early 1900's Only retarted morons are afraid of the Flouride in water.
I've always thought a resistance to floridation was unfounded, but my two brothers and I grew up in a town without it and none of us has ever had a single cavity. A few of my friends I grew up with also didn't have any. Certainly we weren't a cavity free town, but how does this compare to places with Floridation? Do no kids there get cavities?
Our hometown actually tried to floridate the water again in the late 1990's and they rejected it again. I didn't follow the debate then as I no longer lived there, so I don't know if conspiracy theories played a role in their decision to reject it.
I thought the world's largest medical experiment was the Drug War, including the alcohol and tobacco businesses. Nearly a total success, too, lasting well over a half millennium.
--
make install -not war
This will sound trollish but I seriously noted a trend on the poster's overpopulation.com link. Anyone else whose looked here notice that almost all of the countries with highly above 2.1 stats are Muslim countries? Conversly, most of the countries with below average rates are the first world Christian nations. What's up with that? Was there some mandate for more kids or perhaps external factors such as banned contraceptives etc?
Any thoughts?
What you are saying is BS. GM crops in general result in MORE pesticides being used, e.g:i dparam=20031203121506&MenuPoint=D-I-B&CFID=5476589 &CFTOKEN=49191966&MenuPoint=D-I
http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/contentlookup.cfm?uc
The world's largest medical experiment is aspartame and MSG, and it's being conducted by food manufacturers and multinational conglomerates with the FDA's blessing.
And you and I are the guinea pigs.
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
IIRC, Josef Mengele and his colleagues still hold this record.
Excuse me, but am the only person who noticed that this "experiment" has no control population, no experimental population, no placebos, etc...
I believe what we have here is a medical study on the longitudinal form...they have been run before (I recall one at Harvard which tracked 40,000 men for several decades, if memory serves me right) with quite large populations.
Let's get our terminology right...
Yours,
Jordan
Explain then, how the Innuit of Greenland lived for hundreds of generations free of heart disease eating essentially the same way as (for example) polar bears - almost nothing but the fatty bits of meat of animals they killed. Heart disease only appeared in their population when they encountered western refined foods made from flour and sugar. The same thing has been observed with native americans and australians too.
I've done two years of research on this subject. If you want to see some of the evidence yourself, visit the website of the Western A Price foundation.
As for critical logic, consider this: untreated childhood diabetes, leukaemia etc kill before puberty. These people would not be able to reproduce. Therefore, if these diseases were purely genetic, they would be selected out of the gene pool - but they have not been.
"1. Air America Radio. If the plumbers and coffee shops that advertise on our local affiliate (in a major metro market) are any indication, the big media money isn't in criticizing the Bush regime. So they solicit money from individuals who want a free-as-in-open-source media even though the contributors aren't given a financial stake in the station's success."
How does this stack up to the $875,000 in taxpayer grants Air America received in funds diverted from the Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Club charity? Is it going to pay them back?
Where were you when the voynix came?
The retard put his foot in his mouth again. Now look where it got him.
Fucking dumbass.
Lord High Crapflooder The Right Honourable Vlad Craig Esther McDavenpherson III
Destroyer of Mercatur.Net